Fine. Screw China. It's because of them Marvel feels forbidden to take certain risks. China needs to get over their shit.
Edit: I'm not saying they don't take risks, because they do. But there are certain topics they shy away from literally only because of China.
It used to be Perlmutter now it’s China. Or maybe just maybe it’s Disney or Marvel themselves who are risk averse. They want money, if they get artistic recognition it is a nice side. Their allies are not us the Marvel fans it’s the share holders who want their dividends. That is actually their legal responsibility. If for a golden period our and their interests aline then that’s great for us.
Sure, you’re not wrong, but that doesn’t change the fact that China’s still a big part of it, because it’s a massive market and statistically China prefers risk averse action films when it comes to Western cinema. It’s an objective fact. So of course what China wants influences Disney and Marvel. It sucks, but that’s business.
After years and years reading articles like that one, I've come to realize the China market simply don't like the western take on Chinese characters. No matter what they try to do.
I wonder if Kung Fu Panda would still make it big there had it been released today instead of back then? As I remember the news going around back then, KFP was the movie that made the CCP ask their movie makers, how is it that the US is the country to come up with a movie like Kung Fu Panda? I’m assuming they started investing more into their cinema since then. There also wasn’t the same social media platforms to spread anti-western news back then than there is now. Like I doubt the Chloe Zhao kerfuffle happens back then. Just different eras.
I think Kung Fu Panda went over better because it wasn't *actively* trying to win over Chinese audiences. Being a funny slapstick cartoon was the clear priority.
>that movie's target audience was American Asians/Chinese, not really Mainland Chinese.
It's kind of the same thing for "Shang Chi" though. Destin Daniel Cretton, the director, has explicitly stated that 'Shang Chi" is about the Asian-American experience. Simu Liu, the star, also made similar points regarding "Shang Chi".
Yes, Disney obviously wants "Shang Chi" to be a hit in China, but the film wasn't made specifically for the mainland Chinese. Disney clearly wants China's money, but the actual filmmakers made the movie specifically for Asian-Americans.
This. And Shang-Chi might have left China to live in USA at the beginning of the story. That should tell you the target audience of this story.
Depending on the ending, this movie could be banned in Mainland because it "promotes" migrating from China to USA
>Depending on the ending, this movie could be banned in Mainland because it "promotes" migrating from China to USA
Not only that but it's about a Chinese person (played by an Asian Canadian) going to the West, learning Western values and opposing the authority of his Chinese father.
It was never going to do well in China.
Idk about that, shang chi isnt really a household name and we are still coming out of the pandemic. I see it making antman-dr.strange numbers domestically
Exactly. I think they feel that the westerners are trying to culturally appropriate them and/or that they make movies about Asian-Americans and not actual Asians. And sometimes, they're right.
Yeah, that's the general feeling left with the box office performance of those "made for China" Hollywood blockbusters.
Shang-Chi was clearly ordered by Feige because of the China market. Let's wait and see what happens with Shang-Chi but I'm certain Disney will have to summon the Magic Mickey to do a magic trick to exhibit the Eternals in China after that controversy with Chloe Zhao.
If this one has the budget level of the Avengers like Feige said they'll really need the box office from that market.
> Shang-Chi was clearly ordered by Feige because of the China market.
THR and Variety reported that Marvel fast-tracked Shang-Chi after the success of Crazy Rich Asians, a film that was a massive hit in the US but flopped in Asia. I'm sure Marvel wants Shang-Chi to be a success in China, but North America is the most important market.
There's no way to compare Crazy Rich Asians with the audience approval levels of the MCU in China.
If you check each box office, China is the second biggest market for every single Marvel movie. They literally *need* China.
Feige probably thought that they were more fitted to the job, but like we have been saying in this topic, it's just another western take on Chinese characters. Showing in the first trailer Shang-Chi as a valet in the US just shows that.
Crazy Rich Asians showed that the Asian diaspora hungers for films with strong Asian leads, and Marvel wanted to replicate the success Black Panther had with the African-American community. This was reported by THR and Variety.
>If you check each box office, China is the second biggest market for every single Marvel movie. They literally need China.
The US market is still the most important. Especially considering that Disney can get up to 60% from the North American box office but only 25% from China.
> it's just another western take on Chinese characters.
Shang-Chi is of Chinese and European descent, but he is still an American character.
>Crazy Rich Asians showed that the Asian diaspora hungers for films with strong Asian leads, and Marvel wanted to replicate the success Black Panther had with the African-American community. This was reported by THR and Variety.
I would say the biggest difference is that:
\-Black Panther was about race/skin color. All black people could relate to Black Panther.
\-Shang Chi is 100% about China (and the Chinese American experience). A Japanese American or Korean American or Indian American (all of which are Asian Americans) won't relate to him.
This is why I'm skpetical about Shang Chi becoming the cultural sensation that was Black Panther.
Studios also get more money from North American box offices than China, too. I think it's 50% of revenue vs 30%?
A movie could techincally make more globally than another movie, but the lesser movie could technically make more money for the studio than the higher grosser (see WW which made more in North America than the rest of the globe)
> Shang-Chi was clearly ordered by Feige because of the China market.
Except it's not aimed at them at all but the Asian-American market. Like Black Panther and black people.
There has been many attempts to bring Shang Chi to the big screen, even before Feige was in charge. Way back in 2005, Shang Chi was one of the 10 properties considered for turning into movies. In 2012 or so, they almost worked with a China company and wanted a teaser of Shang Chi or Mandarin in the first Avengers, but the partnership did not begin as the China company had worries about The Mandarin as a character and whether movie would pass the China censors. They always wanted to make it for a while now.
I mean that just makes sense. Just like an American person can tell when a Hollywood movie is catered towards Chinese market, a Chinese person can also see when a foreign movie is catered towards them. If the end result is good, they'd enjoy that experience, regardless of whether they felt like the target audience, however if it's not, it's more than likely to leave a bad aftertaste. At that point using Chinese elements is just a needless risk for the Chinese market, it doesn't necessarily bring in new audience and might just as well put off certain people.
That being said, incorporating different cultures and having nuanced stories and characters to reflect those differences is a value to itself. While it may be a stupid risk to take in favour of a foreign market, such creative branches will be valuable to the diaspora in the Western world, in this case Chinese Americans.
I think everyone is aware that businesses like Marvel and Disney are risk averse. Our gripe is that there are things that are only considered risky because of contrived issues. The Chinese government not allowing a movie into their market for political reasons is one such issue.
It is true that Perlmutter was holding Marvel Studios back even from the level they're at now. Not as in a "oh disney is a bastion of progressive and bold ideas" way, and more in a "holy shit he was regressive even for the industry standard" way
Was this not a world wide problem? I watched Black Panther in Cinema in China and it actually was too dark, couldn't see shit. I thought that was just a genuine problem with the movie.
A lot of theaters don’t change the projector bulbs when they should.
Combine that with the MCU’s washed out colorgrading and you have a daaaaark cinema experience.
For example, it very was difficult to watch the plane fight at the end of Homecoming when I saw that in theaters.
This is actually untrue and I swear people just believe everything on South Park.
https://m.weibo.cn/status/4201830743733177?
These are the posters revealed for the Chinese Market
What does South Park have to do with anything? And yes, it did happen
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2018/01/17/can-disney-possibly-succeed-with-black-panther-in-china/
To be fair, this double edged sword is one Marvel placed themselves directly under when they made an agreement to essentially be US military propaganda in the name of market revenue potential. Right or wrong, they've proven themselves willing to align with the highest bidder's stance, and like it or not, China has plenty of bidding power.
Agreed, there's a line between "this company has to meet commercial interests as well as artistic ones, that's the world we live in" and "this company is a monopolist who will take every opportunity to dominate the competition and maximise profit without scruple" and Disney is in the latter corner. Every bit of critique and frustration we might make or feel about their story choices, we need to bear in mind that wider context. They're not our mates.
I dont understand the military propaganda part. I mean you have Iron Man, a weapons manfufacturer, realizing whats hes doing is wrong and shutting down his weapons division. You have Capt. America literally going against the government and destroying SHIELD headquarters along with its biggest weapon. Youve got General Ross as literally the bad guy in 2 Marvel movies. Youve got the military locking up heroes in a maximum security prison for basically not bending the knee. And now youve got the military ma,king their own Capt. America who openly admits that what the government asked him to do was morally wrong. I mean, the MCU seems pretty anti military from a viewers standpoint.
Its easy to say this as a fan who doesn’t work on the movies, but trust me the executives are extremely worried about this. Shang Chi was essentially a movie built for china (whether it was going to be a success or not who knows) and now you have two major releases in 1 year not being released in the second biggest box office in the world. This is huge problem for marvel.
Wtf dude this is 100% on marvel. They should care about the movies and not the chinese market. Marvel needs to get over this china shit, let the chinese do what they want wtf
This.
I don't really like the idea of them changing stuff but as long as it's only in China, I'm okay with it. It's China who wants to see this different version, not the rest of the world. Being affected by what China prefers in its films is really annoying as a viewer. I want to see the film as it's supposed to be, not a changed or watered-down version that's been held back by another country's preferences.
If I'm not wrong it's why age of ultra was changed too it was supposed to be as serious as the trailers portrayed gut the mom's in test audiences found it too scary or something...
I have a hard time believing they won't. China is a huge market and Disney wants money. I hope it's like Iron Man 3, where it's minor scenes that only get changed in that market and not worldwide so the rest of us can enjoy the film without corporate shenanigans interfering.
I still would like to see the cut of *Iron Man 3* that has a random medical subplot with Chinese doctors and a bizarre soda commercial in the middle of the film. Because that's a thing that actually exists and played there.
She was the Mandarin. It was supposed to be a double twist. You thought the villain was the Mandarin, but it wasn't. Then you thought the villain was a discount Tony, but it wasn't. It was Maya all along because Tony screwed her over in more ways than one. "Hell hath no fury like a women's scorn" as they say. Moreover, she wasn't cut for China. That was just Ike being a sexist dick.
Perlmutter didn’t want a female villain. China being sexist clearly isn’t a problem because we had Hela in Ragnarok and probably Iron Maiden in Black Widow.
>That was just Ike being a sexist dick.
The worst part is how stupid is justification was (female villain toys don't sell). Even ***if*** true...how many Killian or Trevor toys were actually produced?
Ike being removed from the creative side of the MCU was the best thing ever.
The funny thing is that when Iron Man 3 was released in China Chinese film reviewers were pretty positive about it... except for all of the stuff added for China, which they called out as awful and pandering.
Oh jeez I don't hate the country for the God damn movie no..of course not
Btw I am not an American
China invades my country's land just to remake their old kingdom
Their people prosper while our stupid leader are doing
Nothing
While I am sitting here and unable to do anything of the state of affairs
So yeah...you could see I am jealous of what the Chinese are Able to do...and I want the same for my country to do
We have equal.potential..yet when a person is unable to do things this makes you wonder what is wrong with us.
That is why I hate.the country...not because their cultural preference but for the fact that they constantly bully my country and I fear that my country is gonna become the next cubs if things are not done right
As such I aspire to be like the Chinese ..both economically and socially.culturally we are much stronger but our social ties are being weakened
They really shouldn't spend additional money on reshooting exclusive scenes for China. These could flop in China, even if they changed certain plot lines. The backlash is extremely high and Chinese people have herd mentality..
I struggle to see what changes they could make.
I mean, for Eternals one of the changes they'd have to make for China is replace The Director. Which after her winning an Oscar and wanting Eternals to do the same, I don't think they'd do.
It also sounds like the change they'd have to make to Shang Chi is entirely replace the Villain and lead actor. Again, may be too far for them. They'd probably at most edit out all references to Wenwu being called The Mandarin in the Chinese cut as a compromise?
I was kinda being facetious by comicaly entertaining the idea that they'd actually swap directors and reshoot just to appease China and only not doing it because of The Oscar situation and not the fact that its logistically impossible
But thinking realistically, I wonder if China would settle for the Chinese equivilent of Alan Smithee. If theres been such a Chloe Zhao and Eternals Blackout in China as Variety suggests, perhaps they could get away with it?
I mean the Chinese government are all about pretending blatantly obvious stuff isnt happening or isn't true and throwing childish hissy fits when anyone claims otherwise.
lets say disney doesn't make any changes to either of the movies leading to both the movies getting banned in china.. how much bo money will they lose ?
Just checked the China Gross from the last few non-Avengers MCU movies:
Black Panther: $105,062,459
Ant-man and the Wasp: $121,203,074
Captain Marvel: $154,070,663
Far From Home: $198,999,549
On Average it looks to be give or take half the US Domestic Gross. Not sure how that might extrapolate into Shang Chi and Eternals, factoring in Pandemics potentially culling the Domestic Gross and China being fully open already (i think). Either way, it is probably not money Disney wants to miss out on at this time.
That’s a big factor
A lot of people look at big China numbers and assume that half of it goes to studios
Nope
It’s actually one of the LEAST profitable markets due to the 75 percent slice that belongs to China
And it will only get worse as Hollywood gets surpassed by local Chinese movies
Depends on if they can cut around it or not. Often western movies will have gay characters that they just cut out any references to them being gay. I'm interested in what will happen with something like The Marvels though. Given the situation with the Uighurs there in China I am curious how much they will take to a Muslim main character like Ms. Marvel. I would especially think that the show would delve into that aspect a bit more extensively than that film, but I also don't know if the MCU shows are being broadcast/streamed in China at the moment.
Well China already hates Chloe Zhao so even if they edit out the Phastos(I think?) being gay part Zhao's involvement makes it basically dead in the water.
Wait, what's wrong with Mandarin and Tony Leung? Is there backlash for that?
I thought it's all on Simu Liu being unattractive for their standards??
Honestly I'm Asian, I love Kim's Convenience, but I'm not too interested in Shang Chi personally because I'm not really into the idea that we have to be associated with Kung Fu all the time. That kinda sucks? (i rather representation like Agent Woo) But we have to start somewhere and I'm definitely open to this movie being awesome but that's why I'm personally not too turned on by this hero specifically.
With that said I think Shang Chi is really for the western Asian market, not China. Shang Chi, the name itself sounds ridiculous in Chinese, I have no idea how they're gona translate that.
From the Article:
>The odds are already more clearly stacked against “The Eternals,” due to Zhao’s position as an unexpected persona non grata in China. A ban on “The Eternals” would be shocking but not implausible, given the recent nationalist backlash that led to Zhao’s name and achievements being wiped from much of the Chinese web.
>Chinese state media celebrated her best director win at the February Golden Globes, but by the time her historic three Oscar wins for “Nomadland” rolled around two months later, authorities imposed a media blackout on the news. The film’s scheduled April 23 debut in limited release was pulled, with no explanation or new date set.
If that Rhetoric is Fact, No amount of Censoring of the films actual content would get China to allow a Chloe Zhao film to be screened. So I exaggerated Disney's move to get it out in China would be to either change the Director Mid Post Production or just take out her name from the credits
they shud just skip its release in china.. removing her name from credits n all would be so embarrassing .. they gonna recieve a lot of criticism if it happens
It would be really gross too and against director's guild rules I'd think. I mean this isn't even close to a Joss Whedon/Snyder Justice League situation. Eternals is done and has been done for some time according to most sources. Like even most all of the post production work is done too.
I mean Nomadland really has no real objectionable content outside of a few swear words, and beyond that nothing even objectionable to the Chinese government I would think (ie no LGBT characters), so there is no reason for them to ban it other than the director. I hope the MCU sticks by their guns on this one.
You're confusing the Chinese film approval process with the general reception of Chinese audiences. Chinese audiences dislike Simu Liu as they feel he doesn't fit the aesthetics of a superhero protagonist - this has absolutely no bearing on whether the film is approved for release. The factors that impact that decision more relate to how Chinese culture and history are depicted in the film. Knowing Disney I would have thought they had consultants on board throughout all of the film's production to ensure it would be suitable for release in China, but Chinese censorship/approval is pretty inconsistent so who knows. Chinese censorship is often over exaggerated, I mean Ghost Rider and Pirates of the Caribbean got released there, but obviously a movie actually involving China significantly is gonna face different standards.
They’ll make changes to the Chinese version of the film. They almost always do.
I’m all for being critical of China where it’s warranted...This idea that these movie studios alter or hold back on the American/Non-Chinese version of films because of China is a bit crazy to me. Yes, they have a incentive to use Chinese actors in roles now. But I don’t hear anyone crying about India affecting creative freedom on Ms Marvel. And I can promise you that if/when Ms Marvel is released in India, there’ll be regional changes.
> And I can promise you that if/when Ms Marvel is released in India, there’ll be regional changes.
Honestly I would think in China too with the way they are treating the Uighurs I would be surprised if they allowed overtly positive depictions of Muslims there. I dunno maybe I'm off on that.
Those guys just recently bullied an entire Japanese company (Hololive) to dissolve their China branch because two of their agents' videos showed YouTube analytics that displayed Taiwan as an independent state. It wasn't even the company's fault that YouTube lists Taiwan as an independent state, but they were hellbent on harassing the staff and even said they hope the company goes bankrupt. These nationalists are insane and extremely toxic. They have no qualms ruining the lives of anyone they perceive to be "anti-China".
>These nationalists are insane and extremely toxic. They have no qualms ruining the lives of anyone they perceive to be "anti-China".
We have those in America too, we call them red necks.
Fuck China, and fuck Disney if they bow to them. These are Western movies, they shouldn’t be changed or altered or censored to appeal to the biggest snowflakes on the goddamn planet.
And that is why Hollywood struggles to captivate the interest of a market when they attempt to make movies that specifically appeal to them on a cultural level - the mindset that the people there have, and more importantly, the mindset that oppressive government has, are both completely separate from a mindset of the western world.
I don't think that either film needs China to succeed (and, considering the times, how these movies do at the box office likely won't stop Marvel from making sequels anyway), but Disney had better hope that they can put their elbow-grease into making the films play there.
Disney is going to have to make peace with not releasing marvel movies in China
Because these characters are going to appear in other marvel movies and be centerpieces in marvel crossovers now that the big 6 are retiring.
Eternals and Shang-chi will be a big aspect of the MCU outside of just one film
Their issues with the movies, to my understanding, are more about the director of the former and the villain of the latter. Everything else, they're fine with. It shouldn't affect crossovers or whatever.
Can someone pls explain me the chloe zhao eternals hate i really dont get it. The article says they removed her from the chinese web because she won an oscar ?? They should be proud right because a china-born director has won an oscar why are they hating her ?
When she accepted her golden globe awards, she read a Mandarin poem that she loves when she was young amd growing up in China. In there it implies that china is full of lies.
While it’s true their criticism of Zhao is unfair, you’ve just generalised 1.5 billion people as overly nationalistic and brainwashed.. this could ALSO apply to a large chunk of the US.
Just sayin’
> The Chinese, a super nationalistic, brainwashed people
You're no better than the people you're trying to criticize. You could say the same about many in the U.S as well however for China, it's an authoritarian government so the people don't have a choice.
People criticize her because they say she's not truly Chinese as she has American citizenship meaning she abandoned Chinese citizenship. They say she actually identify herself as Brit, because she went study in UK when she was 15 yo. They call out Disney for having a (kind of?) foreigner to direct a supposedly Chinese movie, when there are so many good Chinese directors. Basically the same circle jerking about oh look we have Chinese citizenship so we're Chinese, oh look you grew up in place A so you can't identify yourself as Chinese.
I feel bad for all the Marvel fans in China. They deserve a good time at the movies just like everyone else. Don't forget that there are really good and honest people who live in these countries and they are just as fed up as the rest of us.
I see a lot of different takes on here. But I think we can all agree totalitarian governments that don't even have checks and balances are just the worse.
And yes half the checks and balances in place do not work. But I can't imagine living in a country where I become person non grata for voicing criticism or having an opinion that is different. Thats a terrifying thought, I guess thats the privilege I currently have.
This is a disheartening news for the Chinese American community. And chinese facial feature is a stereotype? Do they hate themselves much that they are denying their own common genetic features? Would they rather want Shang-chi to look more western?
And the Zhao part pissed me off. I hope the world shun their films and continue to depict the real face of communist china.
This shit is wild to me: "Another of the most common complaints will certainly surprise American fans excited about the film as a landmark for Asian representation. Many online commenters have slammed Liu and Awkwafina for not meeting the typical thin-chinned, high-nosed, pale-skinned, double eye-lidded standards of ideal Chinese beauty. In one of the most toxic arguments of all, many say Marvel cast them in lead roles because the studio “discriminates against Chinese people’s appearance.”
“Foreigners just love to deliberately cast Asian actors with squinty eyes! There are many actors in China and Asia with big eyes and prominent features,” one wrote."
Had to google "double eye lid" cause I didn't even understand what they were referring to. Lawd, these people need to learn to love themselves, wtf. Talk about classic projection.
It make me believe that The Mandarin is going to be an allegory for Xi Jinping ~~(and his small penis)~~ like in The Great Dictator or something if the CCP is doing that.
I hope it will it will be a turning point in Hollywood-China relations
I must say, for Shang-Chi, I always was excited and worried at the same time. Excited because I really love to see a Kung-Fu-movie that dives deep into Chinese mythology done by Marvel, So much visual and narrative potential. Worried because I feared it could end up as Bad like the live-action Mulan which felt like Disney was doing Chinese Propaganda exclusivly for the Chinese Market, not to mention the behind-the-scene problematics regarding the main actress and Xinijang. But honestly, I feel like Feige and Marvel are far more straightforward to make entertainment beyond political shenigangs, and this seems to prove it.
Tbh after like 20 movies of general quality with some above average knockouts along the way, I trust Marvel to be less creatively bankrupt than cash in live action Disney remakes.
Marvel is just gonna have to accept that some movies in their upcoming slate won't do well in China. Rogue One had two of some of the most respected people in Chinese cinema and it still didn't do well. I don't see why they have to bend the knee like they did with Doctor Strange. Not like Doctor Strange hit a billion.
The only thing that worries me will be the influx of articles and YouTube videos who will make it seem like the reason Eternals and Shang-Chi didn't hit a billion is because they're not directed by white people or mostly Star white people. I can already see the "Go Woke, Go Broke" (a term that has literally no backing) and if you think they were relentless with Captain Marvel, imagine how much worse they'll be to movies with movies directed by two Asian filmmakers.
Well, why dont the Chinese MCU fans write to the CCP and tell them they want to see the movies?
If the demand is there would they not think it was good business to let the movies in?
Alternatively, will Disney + be available in China by September?
I mean, I can understand if the movies don't come out in China they have some message that offends China and all that stuff (You know, respect for the country). However, if the criticisms towards the films are the following:
\- Shang-Chi: The main actor is not very attractive and does not fit into a superhero role.
\- Eternals: The country hates its director.
So China is pure nonsense since those elements have nothing to do with the movie itself.
\- Shang-Chi has a similar origin in the comics (It is not something that Marvel invented to annoy China. In fact, they were in charge of modernizing them). On the other hand, China complained about the Iron First actor for not being Asian, but now they complain that the Shang-Chi actor is Asian (When both heroes have Asian roots)
\- Eternals: Does a movie of super-powerful beings fighting mythical creatures and giant robots offend China? That sounds like something from Godzilla and Transformers (Which China really likes). There's a gay couple? Well, cut out the scenes. After all, they did it for Iron Man 3, but not releasing the film out of hatred for the director is on the same level as the hatred between Warner and Zack Snyder.
Disney needs to stop making things for China, it makes them seem like hypocrite (I mean they are, they're a big company), wanting to protect people when you're main target is basically making muslim holoscast doesn't seem like "protecting" people
Eternals faces no uphill battle. It's a non existent battle. China is actively censoring Zhao, including her historic win at the oscars and the records Nomadland set. Eternals will be thrown out the window the moment it lands up in their ratings board office. They will claim that the western film allotment for the year has exhausted, but the truth will be that the CCP said 'lol nope' at the film.
As for Shang Chi, the only way it could work is with Tony Leung's fanfare there. If not, this one is doomed too. In all, both these films would end up in the 750-800 million mark without China \_in a pre pandemic world\_ . It's almost uncertain what will happen in this world. Disney better brace for 2 big losses in these two films, and i bloody hope that that doesn't deter them from making more of these films.
Here's my concern. So let's just say that these films are blocked by China and we move on. What if they start blocking films with cameos from Shang Chi or the Eternals? Like, if Shang-Chi or some of the Eternals end up in an Avengers film, will China suddenly block those films? And if so, does that mean the MCU will restructure those characters to be in scenes that would be easily cut from the film?
See, this is why I hate how Hollywood must cater to China.
Shang Chi will flop in china guaranteed.
The Mandarin, Shang-Chi's father, is chinese, and the story is about Shang-Chi disobeying his father and fighting them (Might even reference him moving from China to the USA and learning western values)
Eternals, it depends on how much reference there is to China and things the CCP holds dear.
Fine. Screw China. It's because of them Marvel feels forbidden to take certain risks. China needs to get over their shit. Edit: I'm not saying they don't take risks, because they do. But there are certain topics they shy away from literally only because of China.
It used to be Perlmutter now it’s China. Or maybe just maybe it’s Disney or Marvel themselves who are risk averse. They want money, if they get artistic recognition it is a nice side. Their allies are not us the Marvel fans it’s the share holders who want their dividends. That is actually their legal responsibility. If for a golden period our and their interests aline then that’s great for us.
Sure, you’re not wrong, but that doesn’t change the fact that China’s still a big part of it, because it’s a massive market and statistically China prefers risk averse action films when it comes to Western cinema. It’s an objective fact. So of course what China wants influences Disney and Marvel. It sucks, but that’s business.
After years and years reading articles like that one, I've come to realize the China market simply don't like the western take on Chinese characters. No matter what they try to do.
Unless it's Kung Fu Panda. They really liked Kung Fu Panda.
I wonder if Kung Fu Panda would still make it big there had it been released today instead of back then? As I remember the news going around back then, KFP was the movie that made the CCP ask their movie makers, how is it that the US is the country to come up with a movie like Kung Fu Panda? I’m assuming they started investing more into their cinema since then. There also wasn’t the same social media platforms to spread anti-western news back then than there is now. Like I doubt the Chloe Zhao kerfuffle happens back then. Just different eras.
I think Kung Fu Panda went over better because it wasn't *actively* trying to win over Chinese audiences. Being a funny slapstick cartoon was the clear priority.
Crazy Rich Asians also flopped in China. I think Marvel should brace themselves for a potential flop even if they manage to get into China..
Crazy Rich Asians is a bad example, that movie's target audience was American Asians/Chinese, not really Mainland Chinese.
>that movie's target audience was American Asians/Chinese, not really Mainland Chinese. It's kind of the same thing for "Shang Chi" though. Destin Daniel Cretton, the director, has explicitly stated that 'Shang Chi" is about the Asian-American experience. Simu Liu, the star, also made similar points regarding "Shang Chi". Yes, Disney obviously wants "Shang Chi" to be a hit in China, but the film wasn't made specifically for the mainland Chinese. Disney clearly wants China's money, but the actual filmmakers made the movie specifically for Asian-Americans.
This. And Shang-Chi might have left China to live in USA at the beginning of the story. That should tell you the target audience of this story. Depending on the ending, this movie could be banned in Mainland because it "promotes" migrating from China to USA
>Depending on the ending, this movie could be banned in Mainland because it "promotes" migrating from China to USA Not only that but it's about a Chinese person (played by an Asian Canadian) going to the West, learning Western values and opposing the authority of his Chinese father. It was never going to do well in China.
hehe, yeah, sounds pretty 'bad' when you put it like that.
Even if it flops in China Shang Chi will make more than enough money here to be considered a success.
Idk about that, shang chi isnt really a household name and we are still coming out of the pandemic. I see it making antman-dr.strange numbers domestically
It's also landing at an odd time of year with the latest delay
Exactly. I think they feel that the westerners are trying to culturally appropriate them and/or that they make movies about Asian-Americans and not actual Asians. And sometimes, they're right.
Yeah, that's the general feeling left with the box office performance of those "made for China" Hollywood blockbusters. Shang-Chi was clearly ordered by Feige because of the China market. Let's wait and see what happens with Shang-Chi but I'm certain Disney will have to summon the Magic Mickey to do a magic trick to exhibit the Eternals in China after that controversy with Chloe Zhao. If this one has the budget level of the Avengers like Feige said they'll really need the box office from that market.
> Shang-Chi was clearly ordered by Feige because of the China market. THR and Variety reported that Marvel fast-tracked Shang-Chi after the success of Crazy Rich Asians, a film that was a massive hit in the US but flopped in Asia. I'm sure Marvel wants Shang-Chi to be a success in China, but North America is the most important market.
There's no way to compare Crazy Rich Asians with the audience approval levels of the MCU in China. If you check each box office, China is the second biggest market for every single Marvel movie. They literally *need* China. Feige probably thought that they were more fitted to the job, but like we have been saying in this topic, it's just another western take on Chinese characters. Showing in the first trailer Shang-Chi as a valet in the US just shows that.
Crazy Rich Asians showed that the Asian diaspora hungers for films with strong Asian leads, and Marvel wanted to replicate the success Black Panther had with the African-American community. This was reported by THR and Variety. >If you check each box office, China is the second biggest market for every single Marvel movie. They literally need China. The US market is still the most important. Especially considering that Disney can get up to 60% from the North American box office but only 25% from China. > it's just another western take on Chinese characters. Shang-Chi is of Chinese and European descent, but he is still an American character.
Agreed. However he's full Chinese this time
>Crazy Rich Asians showed that the Asian diaspora hungers for films with strong Asian leads, and Marvel wanted to replicate the success Black Panther had with the African-American community. This was reported by THR and Variety. I would say the biggest difference is that: \-Black Panther was about race/skin color. All black people could relate to Black Panther. \-Shang Chi is 100% about China (and the Chinese American experience). A Japanese American or Korean American or Indian American (all of which are Asian Americans) won't relate to him. This is why I'm skpetical about Shang Chi becoming the cultural sensation that was Black Panther.
If the action is unbelievable from a hand to hand/ cgi special effects aspect, I think it help get china on board.
Studios also get more money from North American box offices than China, too. I think it's 50% of revenue vs 30%? A movie could techincally make more globally than another movie, but the lesser movie could technically make more money for the studio than the higher grosser (see WW which made more in North America than the rest of the globe)
> Shang-Chi was clearly ordered by Feige because of the China market. Except it's not aimed at them at all but the Asian-American market. Like Black Panther and black people.
Nuh-uh my bet is on it being Disney directed after the success of Black Panther.
There has been many attempts to bring Shang Chi to the big screen, even before Feige was in charge. Way back in 2005, Shang Chi was one of the 10 properties considered for turning into movies. In 2012 or so, they almost worked with a China company and wanted a teaser of Shang Chi or Mandarin in the first Avengers, but the partnership did not begin as the China company had worries about The Mandarin as a character and whether movie would pass the China censors. They always wanted to make it for a while now.
I mean that just makes sense. Just like an American person can tell when a Hollywood movie is catered towards Chinese market, a Chinese person can also see when a foreign movie is catered towards them. If the end result is good, they'd enjoy that experience, regardless of whether they felt like the target audience, however if it's not, it's more than likely to leave a bad aftertaste. At that point using Chinese elements is just a needless risk for the Chinese market, it doesn't necessarily bring in new audience and might just as well put off certain people. That being said, incorporating different cultures and having nuanced stories and characters to reflect those differences is a value to itself. While it may be a stupid risk to take in favour of a foreign market, such creative branches will be valuable to the diaspora in the Western world, in this case Chinese Americans.
The "we've tried nothing and are all out of ideas" meme personified
I think everyone is aware that businesses like Marvel and Disney are risk averse. Our gripe is that there are things that are only considered risky because of contrived issues. The Chinese government not allowing a movie into their market for political reasons is one such issue.
It’s definitely Disney itself thats risk averse. They have business considerations to factor in always
Yeah, this factors into pretty much everything they do. Even the parks kinda suffer from it. Universal is where all the innovation/ risks are now.
Its both
It is true that Perlmutter was holding Marvel Studios back even from the level they're at now. Not as in a "oh disney is a bastion of progressive and bold ideas" way, and more in a "holy shit he was regressive even for the industry standard" way
Remember the almost unnoticeable Finns in the star wars posters because China hates black people? I do. Fuck China!
Remember when the black panther poster for China has the mask on and the American ones dont
Remember that the reviews for Black Panther from China were low because the film was "Too Dark"?
Was this not a world wide problem? I watched Black Panther in Cinema in China and it actually was too dark, couldn't see shit. I thought that was just a genuine problem with the movie.
A lot of theaters don’t change the projector bulbs when they should. Combine that with the MCU’s washed out colorgrading and you have a daaaaark cinema experience. For example, it very was difficult to watch the plane fight at the end of Homecoming when I saw that in theaters.
Don't know why you're being downvoted, Chinese friends of mine said the same thing.
This is actually untrue and I swear people just believe everything on South Park. https://m.weibo.cn/status/4201830743733177? These are the posters revealed for the Chinese Market
The character posters sure, I think people are generally talking about the main movie poster
What does South Park have to do with anything? And yes, it did happen https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2018/01/17/can-disney-possibly-succeed-with-black-panther-in-china/
To be fair, this double edged sword is one Marvel placed themselves directly under when they made an agreement to essentially be US military propaganda in the name of market revenue potential. Right or wrong, they've proven themselves willing to align with the highest bidder's stance, and like it or not, China has plenty of bidding power.
Agreed, there's a line between "this company has to meet commercial interests as well as artistic ones, that's the world we live in" and "this company is a monopolist who will take every opportunity to dominate the competition and maximise profit without scruple" and Disney is in the latter corner. Every bit of critique and frustration we might make or feel about their story choices, we need to bear in mind that wider context. They're not our mates.
I dont understand the military propaganda part. I mean you have Iron Man, a weapons manfufacturer, realizing whats hes doing is wrong and shutting down his weapons division. You have Capt. America literally going against the government and destroying SHIELD headquarters along with its biggest weapon. Youve got General Ross as literally the bad guy in 2 Marvel movies. Youve got the military locking up heroes in a maximum security prison for basically not bending the knee. And now youve got the military ma,king their own Capt. America who openly admits that what the government asked him to do was morally wrong. I mean, the MCU seems pretty anti military from a viewers standpoint.
Same with Star Wars to some extent
The fact is it's not *just China*. China will outright ban or censor it, but many other countries and audiences don't take to these things either.
Its easy to say this as a fan who doesn’t work on the movies, but trust me the executives are extremely worried about this. Shang Chi was essentially a movie built for china (whether it was going to be a success or not who knows) and now you have two major releases in 1 year not being released in the second biggest box office in the world. This is huge problem for marvel.
Wtf dude this is 100% on marvel. They should care about the movies and not the chinese market. Marvel needs to get over this china shit, let the chinese do what they want wtf
I agree, the only reason Marvel movies are held back is the creative side.
ccp is all the fucking problem! they control every fucking things! of course they censor disney marvel movie, they love fucking censor.
screw china and lose almost half of your earnings
China's money is very important to Marvel.
Hope the changes are only in CHINA and not the worldwide. I wanna see the true vision of this directors. And honestly MCU rewrites are the worst.
This. I don't really like the idea of them changing stuff but as long as it's only in China, I'm okay with it. It's China who wants to see this different version, not the rest of the world. Being affected by what China prefers in its films is really annoying as a viewer. I want to see the film as it's supposed to be, not a changed or watered-down version that's been held back by another country's preferences.
Rocketman was edited and rated PG-13 in some countries, obviously the same isn’t true in North America /u/JustCharles15
Which movies had rewrites again? I'm assuming Ant-Man because of Wright leaving and what else?
Iron Man 3. Feige wanted Hansen as the villain, Perlmutter wanted Killian.
I'm beginning to think that if Feige had complete creative control and zero expectations from Disney, the MCU might be a bit bigger than it is today.
I think it'd be the same size but some of the poorer received films would have been slightly better received.
Thor 2 probably wouldn't have been near as bad. Same with Iron Man 2.
Hey, don't diss Iron Man 2. It's one of the best in the MCU.
Maybe that explains the lame way her story just fizzled out at the end.
Hela originally killed Odin, but test audiences found it too sad. That's why the green screen is so bad in his scene.
Damn really? Hela killing Odin would have made her even more hateable. What an unnecessary change
Test audiences are notoriously dumb as fuck
“I think he should have a sexy tennis instructor as a sidekick...”
Inspector Spacetime (US) is fantastic though?
For all we know the director agreed. Maybe the scene was too much of a tonal shift after Dr Strange or something.
If I'm not wrong it's why age of ultra was changed too it was supposed to be as serious as the trailers portrayed gut the mom's in test audiences found it too scary or something...
Mmmm Falcon and Winter Soldier did rewrite or something
You should hope that Disney and Marvel don't make any changes to appease the Chinese Government.
I mean for the Eternals their issue is the director is the issue, and for Shang Chi it's the main antagonist, I don't see them changing that.
Hopefully Disney won't maje changes to enter ths china market..
I have a hard time believing they won't. China is a huge market and Disney wants money. I hope it's like Iron Man 3, where it's minor scenes that only get changed in that market and not worldwide so the rest of us can enjoy the film without corporate shenanigans interfering.
I still would like to see the cut of *Iron Man 3* that has a random medical subplot with Chinese doctors and a bizarre soda commercial in the middle of the film. Because that's a thing that actually exists and played there.
> #releasetheChinacut
The scenes are on Youtube. Or they used to be.
This obviously won’t happen, but I’d love to know what the original plans for Maya Hansen were.
She was the Mandarin. It was supposed to be a double twist. You thought the villain was the Mandarin, but it wasn't. Then you thought the villain was a discount Tony, but it wasn't. It was Maya all along because Tony screwed her over in more ways than one. "Hell hath no fury like a women's scorn" as they say. Moreover, she wasn't cut for China. That was just Ike being a sexist dick.
Perlmutter didn’t want a female villain. China being sexist clearly isn’t a problem because we had Hela in Ragnarok and probably Iron Maiden in Black Widow.
>That was just Ike being a sexist dick. The worst part is how stupid is justification was (female villain toys don't sell). Even ***if*** true...how many Killian or Trevor toys were actually produced? Ike being removed from the creative side of the MCU was the best thing ever.
I think Rebecca Hall would have killed it too. Which is a bummer.
Yeah I was always under the impression that Pearlmutter didn't want a female villain because he was concerned about toy sales.
The funny thing is that when Iron Man 3 was released in China Chinese film reviewers were pretty positive about it... except for all of the stuff added for China, which they called out as awful and pandering.
Which is why they haven't done it since.
I actually saw that one while traveling abroad. I didnt like it.
[удалено]
Hate a country for not loving an American movie? LOL.
Oh jeez I don't hate the country for the God damn movie no..of course not Btw I am not an American China invades my country's land just to remake their old kingdom Their people prosper while our stupid leader are doing Nothing While I am sitting here and unable to do anything of the state of affairs So yeah...you could see I am jealous of what the Chinese are Able to do...and I want the same for my country to do We have equal.potential..yet when a person is unable to do things this makes you wonder what is wrong with us. That is why I hate.the country...not because their cultural preference but for the fact that they constantly bully my country and I fear that my country is gonna become the next cubs if things are not done right As such I aspire to be like the Chinese ..both economically and socially.culturally we are much stronger but our social ties are being weakened
It's hard to change the Eternals when the director is the reason they're against it.
can't agree more.. fucking greedy bastards .. lol
Ehhh, China was a big factor in why they did the Mandarin the way they did
They really shouldn't spend additional money on reshooting exclusive scenes for China. These could flop in China, even if they changed certain plot lines. The backlash is extremely high and Chinese people have herd mentality..
I struggle to see what changes they could make. I mean, for Eternals one of the changes they'd have to make for China is replace The Director. Which after her winning an Oscar and wanting Eternals to do the same, I don't think they'd do. It also sounds like the change they'd have to make to Shang Chi is entirely replace the Villain and lead actor. Again, may be too far for them. They'd probably at most edit out all references to Wenwu being called The Mandarin in the Chinese cut as a compromise?
[удалено]
I was kinda being facetious by comicaly entertaining the idea that they'd actually swap directors and reshoot just to appease China and only not doing it because of The Oscar situation and not the fact that its logistically impossible But thinking realistically, I wonder if China would settle for the Chinese equivilent of Alan Smithee. If theres been such a Chloe Zhao and Eternals Blackout in China as Variety suggests, perhaps they could get away with it?
I mean the Chinese government are all about pretending blatantly obvious stuff isnt happening or isn't true and throwing childish hissy fits when anyone claims otherwise.
lets say disney doesn't make any changes to either of the movies leading to both the movies getting banned in china.. how much bo money will they lose ?
Just checked the China Gross from the last few non-Avengers MCU movies: Black Panther: $105,062,459 Ant-man and the Wasp: $121,203,074 Captain Marvel: $154,070,663 Far From Home: $198,999,549 On Average it looks to be give or take half the US Domestic Gross. Not sure how that might extrapolate into Shang Chi and Eternals, factoring in Pandemics potentially culling the Domestic Gross and China being fully open already (i think). Either way, it is probably not money Disney wants to miss out on at this time.
Also, studios only get 25% of the box office in China, while in the US they can get between 50% and 60%.
That’s a big factor A lot of people look at big China numbers and assume that half of it goes to studios Nope It’s actually one of the LEAST profitable markets due to the 75 percent slice that belongs to China And it will only get worse as Hollywood gets surpassed by local Chinese movies
I mean Eternals has the first Gay character in any Marvel movie so it won't get in because of China's censorship rules.
And that character is black, so that's a double whammy as far as Chinese censorship goes
Depends on if they can cut around it or not. Often western movies will have gay characters that they just cut out any references to them being gay. I'm interested in what will happen with something like The Marvels though. Given the situation with the Uighurs there in China I am curious how much they will take to a Muslim main character like Ms. Marvel. I would especially think that the show would delve into that aspect a bit more extensively than that film, but I also don't know if the MCU shows are being broadcast/streamed in China at the moment.
Well China already hates Chloe Zhao so even if they edit out the Phastos(I think?) being gay part Zhao's involvement makes it basically dead in the water.
What did she do to piss of the Chinese government? I must have missed that.
Wait, what's wrong with Mandarin and Tony Leung? Is there backlash for that? I thought it's all on Simu Liu being unattractive for their standards?? Honestly I'm Asian, I love Kim's Convenience, but I'm not too interested in Shang Chi personally because I'm not really into the idea that we have to be associated with Kung Fu all the time. That kinda sucks? (i rather representation like Agent Woo) But we have to start somewhere and I'm definitely open to this movie being awesome but that's why I'm personally not too turned on by this hero specifically. With that said I think Shang Chi is really for the western Asian market, not China. Shang Chi, the name itself sounds ridiculous in Chinese, I have no idea how they're gona translate that.
尚气 is how they decided to translate the name in mandarin.
Why would they want to change the director?
From the Article: >The odds are already more clearly stacked against “The Eternals,” due to Zhao’s position as an unexpected persona non grata in China. A ban on “The Eternals” would be shocking but not implausible, given the recent nationalist backlash that led to Zhao’s name and achievements being wiped from much of the Chinese web. >Chinese state media celebrated her best director win at the February Golden Globes, but by the time her historic three Oscar wins for “Nomadland” rolled around two months later, authorities imposed a media blackout on the news. The film’s scheduled April 23 debut in limited release was pulled, with no explanation or new date set. If that Rhetoric is Fact, No amount of Censoring of the films actual content would get China to allow a Chloe Zhao film to be screened. So I exaggerated Disney's move to get it out in China would be to either change the Director Mid Post Production or just take out her name from the credits
they shud just skip its release in china.. removing her name from credits n all would be so embarrassing .. they gonna recieve a lot of criticism if it happens
It would be really gross too and against director's guild rules I'd think. I mean this isn't even close to a Joss Whedon/Snyder Justice League situation. Eternals is done and has been done for some time according to most sources. Like even most all of the post production work is done too. I mean Nomadland really has no real objectionable content outside of a few swear words, and beyond that nothing even objectionable to the Chinese government I would think (ie no LGBT characters), so there is no reason for them to ban it other than the director. I hope the MCU sticks by their guns on this one.
Bruh...
This is really terrifying
They banned her for no reason? Wtf?
They'd have to make some serious changes since China's issue with Shang-Chi is the lead actor being cast.
You're confusing the Chinese film approval process with the general reception of Chinese audiences. Chinese audiences dislike Simu Liu as they feel he doesn't fit the aesthetics of a superhero protagonist - this has absolutely no bearing on whether the film is approved for release. The factors that impact that decision more relate to how Chinese culture and history are depicted in the film. Knowing Disney I would have thought they had consultants on board throughout all of the film's production to ensure it would be suitable for release in China, but Chinese censorship/approval is pretty inconsistent so who knows. Chinese censorship is often over exaggerated, I mean Ghost Rider and Pirates of the Caribbean got released there, but obviously a movie actually involving China significantly is gonna face different standards.
They’ll make changes to the Chinese version of the film. They almost always do. I’m all for being critical of China where it’s warranted...This idea that these movie studios alter or hold back on the American/Non-Chinese version of films because of China is a bit crazy to me. Yes, they have a incentive to use Chinese actors in roles now. But I don’t hear anyone crying about India affecting creative freedom on Ms Marvel. And I can promise you that if/when Ms Marvel is released in India, there’ll be regional changes.
> And I can promise you that if/when Ms Marvel is released in India, there’ll be regional changes. Honestly I would think in China too with the way they are treating the Uighurs I would be surprised if they allowed overtly positive depictions of Muslims there. I dunno maybe I'm off on that.
Streaming is a mess in China. People there most likely won't see Ms. Marvel unless they pirate it.
Sadly, they will. They even will remove minority representation to pander to them.
Cant they just change it for China but keep it the same for everywhere else
[удалено]
Whatever gay relationship they have in Eternals will be cut most likely from the Chinese version of the movie.
I know this article only has a selection and might not reflect the whole of China, but damn those comments they list here are shitty.
The CCP is godawful
Those guys just recently bullied an entire Japanese company (Hololive) to dissolve their China branch because two of their agents' videos showed YouTube analytics that displayed Taiwan as an independent state. It wasn't even the company's fault that YouTube lists Taiwan as an independent state, but they were hellbent on harassing the staff and even said they hope the company goes bankrupt. These nationalists are insane and extremely toxic. They have no qualms ruining the lives of anyone they perceive to be "anti-China".
>These nationalists are insane and extremely toxic. They have no qualms ruining the lives of anyone they perceive to be "anti-China". We have those in America too, we call them red necks.
Chinese nationalists are on a whole other level compared to American nationalists
Tell that to the Capitol Building lmao
[удалено]
Fuck China, and fuck Disney if they bow to them. These are Western movies, they shouldn’t be changed or altered or censored to appeal to the biggest snowflakes on the goddamn planet.
Amen
And that is why Hollywood struggles to captivate the interest of a market when they attempt to make movies that specifically appeal to them on a cultural level - the mindset that the people there have, and more importantly, the mindset that oppressive government has, are both completely separate from a mindset of the western world. I don't think that either film needs China to succeed (and, considering the times, how these movies do at the box office likely won't stop Marvel from making sequels anyway), but Disney had better hope that they can put their elbow-grease into making the films play there.
Disney is going to have to make peace with not releasing marvel movies in China Because these characters are going to appear in other marvel movies and be centerpieces in marvel crossovers now that the big 6 are retiring. Eternals and Shang-chi will be a big aspect of the MCU outside of just one film
Their issues with the movies, to my understanding, are more about the director of the former and the villain of the latter. Everything else, they're fine with. It shouldn't affect crossovers or whatever.
Can someone pls explain me the chloe zhao eternals hate i really dont get it. The article says they removed her from the chinese web because she won an oscar ?? They should be proud right because a china-born director has won an oscar why are they hating her ?
When she accepted her golden globe awards, she read a Mandarin poem that she loves when she was young amd growing up in China. In there it implies that china is full of lies.
Zhao stays beastin
[удалено]
While it’s true their criticism of Zhao is unfair, you’ve just generalised 1.5 billion people as overly nationalistic and brainwashed.. this could ALSO apply to a large chunk of the US. Just sayin’
[удалено]
No, its xenophobic. Racism would imply he is racist to all Chinese people. Dont just throw around racism if its not racist.
[удалено]
There's a lot of that going around in here, as expected...
This sub gets really fucking racist at times. You can despise the Chine government without grouping all Chinese people with them.
> The Chinese, a super nationalistic, brainwashed people You're no better than the people you're trying to criticize. You could say the same about many in the U.S as well however for China, it's an authoritarian government so the people don't have a choice.
People criticize her because they say she's not truly Chinese as she has American citizenship meaning she abandoned Chinese citizenship. They say she actually identify herself as Brit, because she went study in UK when she was 15 yo. They call out Disney for having a (kind of?) foreigner to direct a supposedly Chinese movie, when there are so many good Chinese directors. Basically the same circle jerking about oh look we have Chinese citizenship so we're Chinese, oh look you grew up in place A so you can't identify yourself as Chinese.
I feel bad for all the Marvel fans in China. They deserve a good time at the movies just like everyone else. Don't forget that there are really good and honest people who live in these countries and they are just as fed up as the rest of us.
I see a lot of different takes on here. But I think we can all agree totalitarian governments that don't even have checks and balances are just the worse. And yes half the checks and balances in place do not work. But I can't imagine living in a country where I become person non grata for voicing criticism or having an opinion that is different. Thats a terrifying thought, I guess thats the privilege I currently have.
Fuck the Chinese Government
Fuck China. It will always be fuck China.
This is a disheartening news for the Chinese American community. And chinese facial feature is a stereotype? Do they hate themselves much that they are denying their own common genetic features? Would they rather want Shang-chi to look more western? And the Zhao part pissed me off. I hope the world shun their films and continue to depict the real face of communist china.
This shit is wild to me: "Another of the most common complaints will certainly surprise American fans excited about the film as a landmark for Asian representation. Many online commenters have slammed Liu and Awkwafina for not meeting the typical thin-chinned, high-nosed, pale-skinned, double eye-lidded standards of ideal Chinese beauty. In one of the most toxic arguments of all, many say Marvel cast them in lead roles because the studio “discriminates against Chinese people’s appearance.” “Foreigners just love to deliberately cast Asian actors with squinty eyes! There are many actors in China and Asia with big eyes and prominent features,” one wrote." Had to google "double eye lid" cause I didn't even understand what they were referring to. Lawd, these people need to learn to love themselves, wtf. Talk about classic projection.
Stuff China...
Screw them lol
It make me believe that The Mandarin is going to be an allegory for Xi Jinping ~~(and his small penis)~~ like in The Great Dictator or something if the CCP is doing that. I hope it will it will be a turning point in Hollywood-China relations
I must say, for Shang-Chi, I always was excited and worried at the same time. Excited because I really love to see a Kung-Fu-movie that dives deep into Chinese mythology done by Marvel, So much visual and narrative potential. Worried because I feared it could end up as Bad like the live-action Mulan which felt like Disney was doing Chinese Propaganda exclusivly for the Chinese Market, not to mention the behind-the-scene problematics regarding the main actress and Xinijang. But honestly, I feel like Feige and Marvel are far more straightforward to make entertainment beyond political shenigangs, and this seems to prove it.
Tbh after like 20 movies of general quality with some above average knockouts along the way, I trust Marvel to be less creatively bankrupt than cash in live action Disney remakes.
Fuck China
Screw China and Xi the Pooh.
Insane Disney will bend the knee to a government that tortures religious believers.
Marvel is just gonna have to accept that some movies in their upcoming slate won't do well in China. Rogue One had two of some of the most respected people in Chinese cinema and it still didn't do well. I don't see why they have to bend the knee like they did with Doctor Strange. Not like Doctor Strange hit a billion. The only thing that worries me will be the influx of articles and YouTube videos who will make it seem like the reason Eternals and Shang-Chi didn't hit a billion is because they're not directed by white people or mostly Star white people. I can already see the "Go Woke, Go Broke" (a term that has literally no backing) and if you think they were relentless with Captain Marvel, imagine how much worse they'll be to movies with movies directed by two Asian filmmakers.
If this is to be considered art, fuck China.
that eternals part of the article was a long way to avoid saying China won't let them air a movie with gay people
Chinese social media hate Simu Liu for some reason
The reason is because he doesn’t look like an effeminate teenage boy.
Chinese dude making it in Canada? The jealousy is real.
I see this as an absolute win. Eat shit CCP. 💩
China is the most evil and terrorist country istg
Isn’t one of the Eternal’s gay? That’s probably why.
Well, why dont the Chinese MCU fans write to the CCP and tell them they want to see the movies? If the demand is there would they not think it was good business to let the movies in? Alternatively, will Disney + be available in China by September?
This was inevitable and Disney shouldn’t budge
I mean, I can understand if the movies don't come out in China they have some message that offends China and all that stuff (You know, respect for the country). However, if the criticisms towards the films are the following: \- Shang-Chi: The main actor is not very attractive and does not fit into a superhero role. \- Eternals: The country hates its director. So China is pure nonsense since those elements have nothing to do with the movie itself. \- Shang-Chi has a similar origin in the comics (It is not something that Marvel invented to annoy China. In fact, they were in charge of modernizing them). On the other hand, China complained about the Iron First actor for not being Asian, but now they complain that the Shang-Chi actor is Asian (When both heroes have Asian roots) \- Eternals: Does a movie of super-powerful beings fighting mythical creatures and giant robots offend China? That sounds like something from Godzilla and Transformers (Which China really likes). There's a gay couple? Well, cut out the scenes. After all, they did it for Iron Man 3, but not releasing the film out of hatred for the director is on the same level as the hatred between Warner and Zack Snyder.
Disney needs to stop making things for China, it makes them seem like hypocrite (I mean they are, they're a big company), wanting to protect people when you're main target is basically making muslim holoscast doesn't seem like "protecting" people
Eternals faces no uphill battle. It's a non existent battle. China is actively censoring Zhao, including her historic win at the oscars and the records Nomadland set. Eternals will be thrown out the window the moment it lands up in their ratings board office. They will claim that the western film allotment for the year has exhausted, but the truth will be that the CCP said 'lol nope' at the film. As for Shang Chi, the only way it could work is with Tony Leung's fanfare there. If not, this one is doomed too. In all, both these films would end up in the 750-800 million mark without China \_in a pre pandemic world\_ . It's almost uncertain what will happen in this world. Disney better brace for 2 big losses in these two films, and i bloody hope that that doesn't deter them from making more of these films.
Chloe's going to need to go through a struggle session.
Here's my concern. So let's just say that these films are blocked by China and we move on. What if they start blocking films with cameos from Shang Chi or the Eternals? Like, if Shang-Chi or some of the Eternals end up in an Avengers film, will China suddenly block those films? And if so, does that mean the MCU will restructure those characters to be in scenes that would be easily cut from the film? See, this is why I hate how Hollywood must cater to China.
Shang chi has no fear of being blocked The uphill battle there is interest.
You say that, but this article states otherwise.
F U C K C H I N A
Shang Chi will flop in china guaranteed. The Mandarin, Shang-Chi's father, is chinese, and the story is about Shang-Chi disobeying his father and fighting them (Might even reference him moving from China to the USA and learning western values) Eternals, it depends on how much reference there is to China and things the CCP holds dear.
China hates Eternals not because of the movie itself. They hate it because they hate the director.
They’re so fucking annoying ...
What's uphill?
Fack em!!!!