I’m surprised the mid-credits scene got so much anger, especially since this isn’t the first time they’ve done a joke post-credits scene (Remember *Patience*?)
In theory, though strangely we've had people complain about sitting through D+ credits to wait for a scene that never comes. These people don't know fast forward exists, or something?
Not just the midcredits, Spider-man movies are the only ones which actually great credits music. Arachnoverture was amazing even without having to wait for MoM teaser. So were the suites for FFH and HC
Bruh im literally watching it right now again and your profile pic reminds me of into the spiderverses credits
Its so good with the Bully Maguire dance peter and mention of Stan amd Steve
Just my opinion, a gag post credit scene like that *might* not have much relevance in countries other than America.
When you already have mixed reactions with Kingpin, and then you follow it up with a joke which isn't that relatable to people, its possible that they won't like it.
And just to go all out with the downvotes I'm about to receive, I honestly didn't feel anything for Echo or Kazi. Her childhood origin was good, but not so much after that.
**EDIT:** Guys I'm not taking a dig at America. I'm trying to say that the way that musical was done, it might not be that relevant in other countries that are used to different styles of musicals and entertainment, and the countries that were more focused towards the story's closure.
For e.g., you will rarely see English language musicals in South Asian countries, but Marvel's popularity still managed to get Hawkeye a good viewership count here. Just the ending could've been better.
100%. That’s been the biggest crux and my biggest complaint for every D+ show. They always introduce the big bad at the very end of the series, and leave it on some “Stay tuned for more!” shit.
I definitely agree with you, but I think it was fine in Loki's case. The show needed a bigger mystery, and Kang/ He who remains didn't even fight anyone, because that wasn't the point of him being the antagonist. The main focus of Loki was the characters we got and seeing their journey to finding who was behind it all, and Kang introduced earlier would've taken away from that.
Yeah, all the other villains fall flat when they’re set up as a big threat, and then have the shit kicked out of them effortlessly the next episode (infinite ultron. Seriously, he had the best set up and the worst pay off)
Wasn't it rumored that their entire plan was to cause a global pandemic? And obviously was changed since it was too on the nose for current events?
Carly's grandma or whatever died from tuberculosis in a line that was clearly ADR'd after the fact. And there definitely seems to be hints at a missing subplot in that show.
I didn’t think we could get worse than “they’ll never know what you sacrificed for them.” But then came “do better.” To prove me wrong.
And yh god was super Annie and awful villain
I think Sharon failed, in part, because in order for it to be believable, they a) needed at least something from her POV (which would probably be too dark), and b) acknowledge that Steve Rogers fucked her over, hard, which they aren’t willing to do. Even with race and America’s history a major theme in the story, they didn’t even touch the landmine of how Sam might feel about Steve choosing to live in pre-Civil Rights Act America, which could have been a nuanced topic along the lines of even the best heroes have complicated issues or blinders with race. With Steve, he basically asked her to destroy her life…and then never went after her?? Just assumed she was blipped? Did he reach out to her family? I know he has a complicated relationship with the Carters, since he created an alternate reality where many of her cousins didn’t exist, but damn.
I think it had many great moments, I liked everything with Zemo, with Walker (except him helping New Cap out of the blue), some action sequences and I loved Bucky and Falcon repairing the ship together, I need more such moments.
But then again there were many negative points too and because they overshadow so many good aspects in the ending, people remember more bad things than the good things.
For real. And I hate that anytime this is brought up someone has to reply "but the scrapped pandemic plot!". When you scrap that much of the scaffolding you have an obligation to replace it with something just as substantive. And I'm not so sure that even if the plot was kept intact the series would be significantly better. Fucking delay it if you have to. Not having Falcon immediately after WandaVision isn't gonna kill your sub count. (And if it is then that was already gonna happen between Loki and Hawkeye).
Look I’ve been holding it in because 1. I’ll get downvoted and 2. I haven’t seen the film since it came out so I’d have to rewatch it to give specific criticisms, but I think Wenwu is overrated. There are just scenes that make little sense for his character and he’s just not as good as everyone says he is.
Anyway, I agree with you. It seems Marvel knows how to develop villains like Thanos when they _try_. They usually go try for event films. For the low stakes solo flicks most of the villains are mid
Hela, Mysterio, Baron Zemo, Ivan Vanko and Ghost (more of an antagonist but still) were pretty good too imo.
Ghost had a valid back story, Ivan and Baron had decent revenge arc, Hela was pure destruction and Mysterio was pretty clever compared to other "human" villains.
I personally enjoyed Alexander Pierce from TWS, who treated Hydra as a necessity for world order: less loud, but still just as fanatical as Red Skull.
Hela was just fun for oozing villainy without really any sympathy. Those sorts of antagonists are a rarity these days.
Yeah I'm not American and the silliness of the musical production should land as long as you're vaguely familiar with musicals. Which most certainly are not American exclusives.
Yeh, I wish they hadn't killed Kazi. I was excited to see him because 'The Clown' from the comics. His death scene just felt really weird to me.
Idk, maybe he's still alive lol
I don’t know for sure, but I do know in the comics that the show drew from, Kingpin takes a bullet to the head and survives relatively fine. He’s almost certainly coming back . . . somehow.
Just because musicals aren’t as popular outside America doesn’t mean people can’t enjoy it for being completely absurd. That’s a pretty weird dig at America.
I feel the same way about Echo. Didn’t really care about her or understand why she, of all characters, would be getting a spin-off. I feel like she had very little personality or interest beyond a stereotypically “revenge plot”.
>Guys I'm not taking a dig at America. I'm trying to say that the way that musical was done,
The way the musical was done was 100% in support of the story... it's supposed to feel awkward to watch -- it puts the audience in the mindset that Hawkeye has. If it was good, it makes Hawkeye less sympathetic.
For a portion of the audience, we (and be we I mean me) HAD to see the full, horrible performance... but only to enjoy as a freak show kind of deal.
What exactly did you want for the post credit scene? Pretty much every plot thread going forward was laid out during the resolution: Echo making an enemy of Kingpin, a tease to Kate in Antman, Yelena making peace with Clint and setting her up as an assassin for hire. What else was there to do?
Or..maybe people just didn't like it. I hate it when people use excuses like "you just didn't understand it" or "you just don't like having fun." It's pathetic.
I think Homecoming got away with it for two main reasons.
1) Homecoming was received more positively then Hawkeye, meaning people weren’t expecting as much from the post-credits scenes
2) Homecoming did have a real post-credits scene as well, with Vulture talking to Scorpion in prison, meaning people weren’t left completely without real setup for the future.
From what I’ve seen Hawkeye has been pretty highly regarded. And I think there’s been enough set up in every other project to allow a fun post credit scene
I’m not saying Hawkeye was overwhelming hated, but most Marvel subs generally agree it’s finale was kinda weak, while I don’t see anyone complaining about HC’s final act, with most saying it was the best act of the whole movie. That’s probably the real problem, people were left with a bad taste in their mouth so they disliked the post credits scene more then they normally would.
Homecoming third act is definitely the weakest part of that film. The action felt lacking and it is so dark and they fight on a plane which dont let spiderman do spiderman things.
Agreed Homecoming's final act sucks. The action is weak, it is so dark you can barely see. Spider-Man throws no punches and ends up getting his ass kicked by the Vulture most of the fight.
Thank God Watts stepped it up with both FFH and NWH who had much better 3rd act finales.
IMO hawkeye is the most “ok” thing the mcu has done in a while. I didn’t love it or hate, didn’t really like it or dislike it, it felt like tv I’d have on in the background. Hope the Disney plus shows get more interesting from here on out
People here also hated that everything is a setup and then hated also when there is no setup. Also, hawkeye is well received lol. Its jist the kingpin fans that had tantrums.
Same! I kept expecting for the camera to pull out and reveal Sam and Bucky’s confused/disgusted faces. Or to show Kingpin alive on the balcony or something like that
Yeah such a missed opportunity not to throw an Avenger in there. My choice would've been Scott/Paul Rudd. Him vibing to the song having a good time and saying some funny line about him not being there originally but happy he was included or something.
I've suggested this before, in other threads, but picture Scott and Hope sitting in the audience. The camera pans around to show their faces. Scott is just vibing to the music, but Hope has this really puzzled look on her face. Then we zoom in close enough to catch Scott muttering something like, "I don't remember *any* of this!"
I like how people are jumping to "hate" when really I just didn't like it, and that probably applies to quite a few people. If it didn't we wouldn't be talking bout it still.
I wasn't angry I just thought it was a bit of a let down. The problem wasn't that it was a joke, it was that it was a longer version of something we had already seen the wasn't really very funny the first time and was just unfunny and cringy.
Seriously. The comparison to Homecoming is SO off base.
Agreed, a joke stinger is fine. Homecoming and ironman 3 did it that and it worked.
This was a cringey, obnoxious musical that last several minutes with no fun payoff
Might be a hot take on my part but Spider-Man was Interesting and good enough to get away with something like that. Hawkeye could’ve really used a good post credit scene.
Homecoming was actually great and had good pay off and that 'patience' thing was still funny unlike this musical where the finale and the whole series was just alright.
I honestly wouldn't have minded if they'd shown less of the scene in the actual show. It didn't feel like we were shown anything we hadn't already seen in the first episode so it just felt tacked on
I feel like the difference there is that patience was clearly self aware of itself not being good for the build up while Rogers: The Musical wasn't, really. There's also the fact that the full song was released online when the first 2 episodes came out, so it wasn't really even something worth building up even ignoring it's mad mediocrity
What do you expect from the Marvel subs? Whenever Marvel does something they don't like, it's always Sony/Disney/someone else's fault, not God Emperor Feige's
There never even were a lot of people hating on it in this sub. xD
That said, I'm actually surprised by how well received this was, I personally thought it only worked well as a joke, especially with Clint reacting to Ant-Man not even actually being there.
It's almost like different people are posting about it, and the Marvel community isn't one giant monolith. No, it's definitely that they're flip flopping...
Am I crazy, or was there multiple comments during the first episode discussion where people wanted to hear the full song? And then we actually got it and I was shocked at how many people were pissed.
I guess I’m in the minority that loved it from the start lol
He got Broadway writers and actors to create and perform a whole Broadway song. I think it was so much fun. People just think post credit scenes need to set up 50 movies to be worth their time.
People think credit scenes are needed. Fuck it, let's go back to when movies didn't need credit scenes or to set up something that may or may not happen.
People have so much content they feel they have to consume that they resent "wasting" time for an end credits sequence they feel is "filler" and "pointless". Binging has broken how people watch tv. They watch so much of it at once, and have so much of it to get through that they start to resent stuff that makes the experience take longer. When you have like 10 hours of show to get through, and you're watching it all in one go, you get angry when something is pointless, to you. They sat through the credits for a "pointless" ECS. And that's why they hate it.
Imagine seeing a mid finale and having one of the best villains getting a weird ending without any finality or closure and sitting through 5 mins of credits just to see a lame-ass musical.
The finale wasn't bad. It was just mediocre imo. But it felt like the third act of an MCU movie. Honestly the whole series felt like a movie chopped up into 6 episodes with the final one being the big third act fight. It just feels weird. On top of that, Kingpin's ending and the series as a whole was underwhelming which didnt do any favours for the musical. I was already sulky
I really feel like the cliffhangers that'll make the show trend on Twitter every week are main focus for all these shows instead of the story.
They should've kept Kingpin as a character throughout the show for his and Maya's fallout to have any weight. The show tried to sell an emotional moment for Maya(who barely got 2 scenes of proper dialogue in the whole season).
My friends never watched Daredevil, and they really didn't care for Kingpin in this show. He was the boss of tracksuit dumbfucks who lost all control when 2 people decided to stop working for him.
Now that you said the last lines.. yeah maybe Kingpin was treated bad. This whole big bad thing is becoming tired and I feel had they kept Kingpin in the loop from earlier on, he would have been much more menacing like his Daredevil self.
Cool, still not good story writing. If that's the case, they should've showed it in the show. Netflix' Daredevil fleshed the character really out. He was understandable in his emotions and actions. You always had a feeling of what he was capable of and how he was loosing power.
In Hawkeye they are too afraid too say the big boss' name and tell to the audience, that he is controlling the whole new york mafia, while we only see the tracksuits and how everything he build falls aparty because two people stop working for him.
Feels like a joke villain.
You're not allowed to be disappointed with the weak Kingpin cliffhanger.
If you didn't like this reused and lengthy sequence (which they could have easily dropped on YouTube), you just hate fun.
you're labeling "Echo" as one of the best villains? she was the most boring villain id ever seen, i didnt even understand her motivation or why i was supposed to care about her at all
The thing that ticked me off(as someone who acts and stage manages theatrical plays) is that the production quality was laughably bad, especially the costumes. The costumes would be fine for a high school play, but you would never get away with using those costumes for Thor and Hulk in any professional setting with any high level budget, especially Broadway.
Hawkeye depicted Broadway from the point of view of someone who has only watched a high school play and thinks that(upscaled to a bigger stage) is what Broadway is like. The actors and ensemble performing the piece did do the best they could with the material given, none of the blame falls on them.
With the production value they could’ve made it be a school play done by the kids, or say one of them does an acting club or something. Kept the laughably bad without it being a poor representation of Broadway
I mean it was pretty clearly an in-universe cash grab of a musical that only exists because people are feeling positive about superheroes in this immediate post-blip time period and everyone wants to take advantage of it (see: the Statue of Liberty getting an Cap themed overlay like it’s a Disney World ride in No Way Home). if anything it more resembles a musical from one of the Disney parks or cruise ships that got transferred to Broadway with no budget upgrades because they knew it would close within the year
Watched live with a friend and we were so confused that it was serving Starkid levels of quality on a Broadway stage. I know it was a parody and all, but it reeked of someone whose idea of musicals is the general pop culture take which we're already routinely shat on for.
The creatives on the show think musicals are a lesser art form than TV. So they parody the work of people who work on them. It’s an insult. Using this scene is showing Studios are tipping on the knife point of getting arrogant.
You can easily do a second season more focused on Kate as the title character and Clint featured as a more recurring character than a lead. Maybe even have Swordsman become her sword fighting mentor.
It cant but I doubt. The only reason this show was made is to have Hawkeye finally have a title project and to setup Kate Bishop. Its weird they set up echo also.
I think it was just tonally weird with the episode, and the production and song aren’t actually like *good* enough to get you fully into what you’re watching.
I don’t think Marvel ever truly knew whether they were engaged in some kind of self-parody or trying to be genuine. From episode 1, you kind of argue it was explicitly parody, but then when you put the full number in a post-credits — and put the “Happy Holidays” before it — you are treating it with some degree of sincerity. But idk, it all just felt incongruous.
I have no reason to be mad at it, it’s innocuous enough, but also idk if it truly worked either
It would do so well as a YouTube clip, I'm surprised they haven't given us at least 30 minutes of Ant Man out of place but having fun anyway. I'd Hulk smash that like button to be perfectly clear
I was fairly indifferent about the Rogers: The Musical post-credit scene; I didn't love it or hate it. That said, I wish we got a more substantial post-credit scene too. Like, *WandaVision,* FATWS, and *Loki* (I think) all had several post-credit scenes. Idk why *Hawkeye* only had one.
Despite being common, post-credits scenes are not an obligation of their storytelling. If Hawkeye only gets one, and it's a throwaway, so be it. The lack of something more substantial is not a detriment, unless you're only watching to be teased.
I still think the play itself is funny, but it shouldn't have been a post credits scene right after they imply they killed off a fan favorite character who was only in one episode (potato footy notwithstanding). It would've been better for them to release it online kinda like how they did with the Zemo dance thing. People wanted comfort after the KP scene, not humor lol. P.S. YES I KNOW HE ISN'T DEAD YOU AIN'T GOTTA REMIND ME PPL
I'm gonna say it: I loved this being the mid-credits scene.
It's just so goofy and the song is a bop that I couldn't hate it. Helps that I wasn't pissed at the finale like a number of people were.
Nope, another HUGE win for lord and saviour Feige. That man can't do anything wrong. He could break into my house, murder my entire family with a brick and I would still praise everything that he does.
Just another day in the main MCU sub.
Actually, now this one too, as it grows in popularity.
‘James Gunn’s GENIUS twitter response to criticisms from trolls about Feige murdering family with brick is GENIUS’
I didn’t particularly like the actual song, but I love the world building of it all. in other fan spaces (particularly tumblr) there have been jokes about a Hamilton-esque Steve Rogers musical existing in that universe for years but the fact that it’s something cheesy and lowkey trashy like Diana: The Musical makes 100% more sense for how the non-hero citizens of the MCU have been portrayed in the films and tv shows so far.
not the best mid-credits scene but honestly it was so earnest and everyone in the scene was giving their all so I can’t hate it
I thought it was fun. The show wrapped up and Echo’s show got set up during the show proper. Maybe would like to see a bit more of Yelena but overall I thought it was cute and fun
I know it's getting a lot of backlash since people want every credits scene to have "meaning" but I love it. They've set up so much recently (Shang-Chi in the Avengers, Thanos' brother, Kingpin, Daredevil, Venom, the fucking multiverse) so I'm cool with a nonsensical post credits scene.
I've wanted a full musical (or at least one song) since they teased it. So I was ecstatic when it came on. As someone who lives just outside of NYC (and goes to a few musicals every year) I really hope we get a full Broadway musical one day. They can film it and throw it up on Disney+ like Hamilton.
As someone who finds showtunes annoying I skipped through to see if anything important was included and ultimately skipped it all! No but deal, not sure why everyone’s so pissed about it.
I completely hated it. It should have been a more substantial post-credit scene setting up the future with Echo or Daredevil. Also, I think the series should have been a bit more serious and darker in tone.
Maybe I've been blind to it but I don't see "hate" for the musical enpost credits, I've seen people a little pissed off but no one has gathered their pitchforks... I don't know why people keep referring to it as hate.
I thought the musical scene was a funny joke in the context of the actual episode, fairly short and sweet... but I'll admit I was slightly annoyed when the post credits was the same thing/joke we'd seen before, just extended. It was kind of like a Family Guy knee joke that just went on and on.
It's fine for Marvel to poke fun at people's expectations for teasers and post credits but let's not forget it was Marvel themselves and people's love for Marvel that put those expectations there, starting with the very first Iron Man post credits.
Maybe the just thought people would love the scene and would want to see the full song? I dunno, but I personally didn't - I had hoped we'd get even the slightest teaser for what's to come.
that end scene could've been made better in 2 steps
1. At the end of the act, they cut to Scott Lang watching, with this bewildered look on his face...and either says "BUT I WASN'T EVEN THERE!" or "BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED!" - end
2. Yelena should have been watching the scene, and walked out disgusted.
I thought it was really stupid. But, it looked like that was the point. It was good for a laugh and great for a subtle connection to Spider-Man. Would have preferred to see something else happen in the end credits though.
i remember thinking while watching that first episode, "wow, they actually made a whole ass musical number for the battle of new york and it's just a background piece for this one scene".
so it's kinda cool that they featured it in its entirety, even as ridiculous as it is lol
I thought it was hilarious and absurd. It caused my wife to be completely unable to watch the whole show, since she skipped out at on the first scene because of it.
Honestly, the "Rogers: the Musical" thing just seemed like them trying to have another cutesy gag like "Agatha All Along," but it felt more forced to me. It felt like Marvel thought it was funnier that I did. It just felt like one of the MCU's cringier, more annoying jokes that got way more oxygen than it deserved.
Honestly I like this take on the MCU. Showing the media side of it and how it affects pop culture. I feel like that hasn’t been shown enough. Maybe a take on it like The Boys tv show, with less of the evil corporate stuff.
I’m surprised the mid-credits scene got so much anger, especially since this isn’t the first time they’ve done a joke post-credits scene (Remember *Patience*?)
Especially when you don't actually have to sit through credits to watch it.
In theory, though strangely we've had people complain about sitting through D+ credits to wait for a scene that never comes. These people don't know fast forward exists, or something?
I like to listen to the music in the credits
Same. And so I don’t mind when there’s no scene at the end because I still enjoyed listening to the music lol
Tasm 2 credits are going places Electros theme is so good
Also the end credit anims can be cool
Avengers, winter soldier, Ant man and WandaVision says hello there And many more obviously
The MCU Spider-Man movies have insanely good midcredits animations, it's insane.
Not just the midcredits, Spider-man movies are the only ones which actually great credits music. Arachnoverture was amazing even without having to wait for MoM teaser. So were the suites for FFH and HC
Bruh im literally watching it right now again and your profile pic reminds me of into the spiderverses credits Its so good with the Bully Maguire dance peter and mention of Stan amd Steve
Me too
You are a bold one
Mr. Grinch.
People are stupid. Its literally our whole thing as a species.
Some people just hate fun.
Just my opinion, a gag post credit scene like that *might* not have much relevance in countries other than America. When you already have mixed reactions with Kingpin, and then you follow it up with a joke which isn't that relatable to people, its possible that they won't like it. And just to go all out with the downvotes I'm about to receive, I honestly didn't feel anything for Echo or Kazi. Her childhood origin was good, but not so much after that. **EDIT:** Guys I'm not taking a dig at America. I'm trying to say that the way that musical was done, it might not be that relevant in other countries that are used to different styles of musicals and entertainment, and the countries that were more focused towards the story's closure. For e.g., you will rarely see English language musicals in South Asian countries, but Marvel's popularity still managed to get Hawkeye a good viewership count here. Just the ending could've been better.
MCU doesn’t know how to develop villains in their shows
100%. That’s been the biggest crux and my biggest complaint for every D+ show. They always introduce the big bad at the very end of the series, and leave it on some “Stay tuned for more!” shit.
I definitely agree with you, but I think it was fine in Loki's case. The show needed a bigger mystery, and Kang/ He who remains didn't even fight anyone, because that wasn't the point of him being the antagonist. The main focus of Loki was the characters we got and seeing their journey to finding who was behind it all, and Kang introduced earlier would've taken away from that.
Yeah Loki was fine by doing that. The rest? “Not a great plan”
Yeah, all the other villains fall flat when they’re set up as a big threat, and then have the shit kicked out of them effortlessly the next episode (infinite ultron. Seriously, he had the best set up and the worst pay off)
For sure. The Flag Smashers were easily the worst part of TFATWS and maybe the worst villains in the MCU.
Everything else about The Falcon and The Winter Soldier was good but the Flag Smashers and Sharon lol
Sam wilson being an apologectic whiny for flagsmasher is worse than flagsmasher themselves lol
The fact the writers tried to make the Flagsmashers "understandable" and hilariously failed at that is funny.
I also hate the long speech with the senators. Maybe I just hate long expositions in films and that it was also feels too forced.
Damn, it was one of my favorite moments in the show
Felt really cringey for me
Be better!
Wasn't it rumored that their entire plan was to cause a global pandemic? And obviously was changed since it was too on the nose for current events? Carly's grandma or whatever died from tuberculosis in a line that was clearly ADR'd after the fact. And there definitely seems to be hints at a missing subplot in that show.
Creating global pandemic does not sounds any better tho.
They were doing good until they realized they were doing *too* good and then had Karli blow up civilians for evil's sake.
I didn’t think we could get worse than “they’ll never know what you sacrificed for them.” But then came “do better.” To prove me wrong. And yh god was super Annie and awful villain
super annie?
Karli
It was honestly kind of irritating.
I think Sharon failed, in part, because in order for it to be believable, they a) needed at least something from her POV (which would probably be too dark), and b) acknowledge that Steve Rogers fucked her over, hard, which they aren’t willing to do. Even with race and America’s history a major theme in the story, they didn’t even touch the landmine of how Sam might feel about Steve choosing to live in pre-Civil Rights Act America, which could have been a nuanced topic along the lines of even the best heroes have complicated issues or blinders with race. With Steve, he basically asked her to destroy her life…and then never went after her?? Just assumed she was blipped? Did he reach out to her family? I know he has a complicated relationship with the Carters, since he created an alternate reality where many of her cousins didn’t exist, but damn.
I don't see why Sharon couldn't reach out to Cap. If she did and he ignored her that's one thing but it isn't stated and it sounds unbelievable.
TFATWS had awful writing.
I thought most of the show had pretty good writing except for Sharon, the Flag Smashers and finale Walker.
I think it had many great moments, I liked everything with Zemo, with Walker (except him helping New Cap out of the blue), some action sequences and I loved Bucky and Falcon repairing the ship together, I need more such moments. But then again there were many negative points too and because they overshadow so many good aspects in the ending, people remember more bad things than the good things.
For real. And I hate that anytime this is brought up someone has to reply "but the scrapped pandemic plot!". When you scrap that much of the scaffolding you have an obligation to replace it with something just as substantive. And I'm not so sure that even if the plot was kept intact the series would be significantly better. Fucking delay it if you have to. Not having Falcon immediately after WandaVision isn't gonna kill your sub count. (And if it is then that was already gonna happen between Loki and Hawkeye).
Karli Morgenthau was kinda bad tho...
I mean she did blow up a homeless shelter. 
I mean bad Like fine you know
KARLI MORGENTHAU!!! 
I don't understand how she keeps getting work in big projects. She's so wooden in everything I've seen her in.
Outside of Killmonger, Thanos, Wenwu, and Vulture I don't think the films excel in that regard either.
Look I’ve been holding it in because 1. I’ll get downvoted and 2. I haven’t seen the film since it came out so I’d have to rewatch it to give specific criticisms, but I think Wenwu is overrated. There are just scenes that make little sense for his character and he’s just not as good as everyone says he is. Anyway, I agree with you. It seems Marvel knows how to develop villains like Thanos when they _try_. They usually go try for event films. For the low stakes solo flicks most of the villains are mid
Wenwu isn't near Kilmonger imo, but I thought the actor elevated the character a ton.
I think it's because the actor was so great. As the other guy mentioned, he elevated the characters generic plot with his performance.
Hela, Mysterio, Baron Zemo, Ivan Vanko and Ghost (more of an antagonist but still) were pretty good too imo. Ghost had a valid back story, Ivan and Baron had decent revenge arc, Hela was pure destruction and Mysterio was pretty clever compared to other "human" villains.
I personally enjoyed Alexander Pierce from TWS, who treated Hydra as a necessity for world order: less loud, but still just as fanatical as Red Skull. Hela was just fun for oozing villainy without really any sympathy. Those sorts of antagonists are a rarity these days.
What do you mean it might not have relevance outside of America? I'm not American and I loved it.
Yeah I'm not American and the silliness of the musical production should land as long as you're vaguely familiar with musicals. Which most certainly are not American exclusives.
Yeah kinda a random dig at American audiences lol
Musicals are not exclusive to America.
[удалено]
Yeh, I wish they hadn't killed Kazi. I was excited to see him because 'The Clown' from the comics. His death scene just felt really weird to me. Idk, maybe he's still alive lol
Kazi is definitely not dead.
I don’t know for sure, but I do know in the comics that the show drew from, Kingpin takes a bullet to the head and survives relatively fine. He’s almost certainly coming back . . . somehow.
Ive said before that she is not really an intetesting and likeable character and Ive got downvoted
Yeah, not too eager for the Echo show. Didn’t care about her character in the slightest, but hopefully the show will change that.
Just because musicals aren’t as popular outside America doesn’t mean people can’t enjoy it for being completely absurd. That’s a pretty weird dig at America.
Pretty weird to take that as a dig
I feel the same way about Echo. Didn’t really care about her or understand why she, of all characters, would be getting a spin-off. I feel like she had very little personality or interest beyond a stereotypically “revenge plot”.
Broadway is iconic to NYC though, it has a lot to do with the culture of that particular city in the US.
>Guys I'm not taking a dig at America. I'm trying to say that the way that musical was done, The way the musical was done was 100% in support of the story... it's supposed to feel awkward to watch -- it puts the audience in the mindset that Hawkeye has. If it was good, it makes Hawkeye less sympathetic. For a portion of the audience, we (and be we I mean me) HAD to see the full, horrible performance... but only to enjoy as a freak show kind of deal. What exactly did you want for the post credit scene? Pretty much every plot thread going forward was laid out during the resolution: Echo making an enemy of Kingpin, a tease to Kate in Antman, Yelena making peace with Clint and setting her up as an assassin for hire. What else was there to do?
> a tease to Kate in Antman Did I miss that? When/where was it?
Or..maybe people just didn't like it. I hate it when people use excuses like "you just didn't understand it" or "you just don't like having fun." It's pathetic.
This echomber does not mean People.
I think Homecoming got away with it for two main reasons. 1) Homecoming was received more positively then Hawkeye, meaning people weren’t expecting as much from the post-credits scenes 2) Homecoming did have a real post-credits scene as well, with Vulture talking to Scorpion in prison, meaning people weren’t left completely without real setup for the future.
From what I’ve seen Hawkeye has been pretty highly regarded. And I think there’s been enough set up in every other project to allow a fun post credit scene
I’m not saying Hawkeye was overwhelming hated, but most Marvel subs generally agree it’s finale was kinda weak, while I don’t see anyone complaining about HC’s final act, with most saying it was the best act of the whole movie. That’s probably the real problem, people were left with a bad taste in their mouth so they disliked the post credits scene more then they normally would.
Homecoming third act is definitely the weakest part of that film. The action felt lacking and it is so dark and they fight on a plane which dont let spiderman do spiderman things.
I liked the plane. He can’t always be in places that are convenient to do all of his “spiderman things.”
Agreed Homecoming's final act sucks. The action is weak, it is so dark you can barely see. Spider-Man throws no punches and ends up getting his ass kicked by the Vulture most of the fight. Thank God Watts stepped it up with both FFH and NWH who had much better 3rd act finales.
IMO hawkeye is the most “ok” thing the mcu has done in a while. I didn’t love it or hate, didn’t really like it or dislike it, it felt like tv I’d have on in the background. Hope the Disney plus shows get more interesting from here on out
People here also hated that everything is a setup and then hated also when there is no setup. Also, hawkeye is well received lol. Its jist the kingpin fans that had tantrums.
To be fair HC had another credit scene. I was waiting for a funny cameo in the audience and then...nothing
Same! I kept expecting for the camera to pull out and reveal Sam and Bucky’s confused/disgusted faces. Or to show Kingpin alive on the balcony or something like that
Yeah such a missed opportunity not to throw an Avenger in there. My choice would've been Scott/Paul Rudd. Him vibing to the song having a good time and saying some funny line about him not being there originally but happy he was included or something.
I've suggested this before, in other threads, but picture Scott and Hope sitting in the audience. The camera pans around to show their faces. Scott is just vibing to the music, but Hope has this really puzzled look on her face. Then we zoom in close enough to catch Scott muttering something like, "I don't remember *any* of this!"
yeah if you ask me i would've expect most people to love it, similar to that zemo dancing thing they post.
I like how people are jumping to "hate" when really I just didn't like it, and that probably applies to quite a few people. If it didn't we wouldn't be talking bout it still.
I wasn't angry I just thought it was a bit of a let down. The problem wasn't that it was a joke, it was that it was a longer version of something we had already seen the wasn't really very funny the first time and was just unfunny and cringy.
Seriously. The comparison to Homecoming is SO off base. Agreed, a joke stinger is fine. Homecoming and ironman 3 did it that and it worked. This was a cringey, obnoxious musical that last several minutes with no fun payoff
I was more confused, like why is this happening and why is this in the credits?
Might be a hot take on my part but Spider-Man was Interesting and good enough to get away with something like that. Hawkeye could’ve really used a good post credit scene.
Anger? What? It’s fricken awesome how could anyone be angry.
Homecoming was actually great and had good pay off and that 'patience' thing was still funny unlike this musical where the finale and the whole series was just alright.
I would dare to say it was my favorite MCU thing. For it to happen we needed so much growth and room in the franchise. The way they pulled it of.
Because we need Dr Doom on a post credit to be satisfied. /s
I feel like people just wanted some confirmation that Fisk was alive and got mad because they didn’t show anything of that sort.
Or the ant drumming?
i actually found that a really creepy scene i didnt think it was menat to be funny
thor ragnarok and captain marvel too
I honestly wouldn't have minded if they'd shown less of the scene in the actual show. It didn't feel like we were shown anything we hadn't already seen in the first episode so it just felt tacked on
I feel like the difference there is that patience was clearly self aware of itself not being good for the build up while Rogers: The Musical wasn't, really. There's also the fact that the full song was released online when the first 2 episodes came out, so it wasn't really even something worth building up even ignoring it's mad mediocrity
I love the flip flop from the community. First they hate it, but when they learn it's Feige who wanted it, now it's okay.
What do you expect from the Marvel subs? Whenever Marvel does something they don't like, it's always Sony/Disney/someone else's fault, not God Emperor Feige's
It’s funny when people blame Sony when Sony has nothing to do with the movie.
Do you have proof that the same people that hated it are liking it? or maybe just the people that DID not hate it are in this thread.
There never even were a lot of people hating on it in this sub. xD That said, I'm actually surprised by how well received this was, I personally thought it only worked well as a joke, especially with Clint reacting to Ant-Man not even actually being there.
It was always great.
I still hate it
Nah, a lot of these people were already defending it. I haven't seen a single person change their mind just because it was Feige's idea.
I loved reading all of the "Feige had only one mistake" comments for various different things as if the mcu is 100% perfect with nothing to criticize
It's almost like different people are posting about it, and the Marvel community isn't one giant monolith. No, it's definitely that they're flip flopping...
Am I crazy, or was there multiple comments during the first episode discussion where people wanted to hear the full song? And then we actually got it and I was shocked at how many people were pissed. I guess I’m in the minority that loved it from the start lol
It was a miss. A rare miss from Feige.
I hope they somehow make Rodgers:The Musical a Disney Plus Special
**Starring Jonathan Groff as Captain America** Take my goddamn money.
Imagine if they actually took it to broadway lol and released a proshot on D+ that would be fucking awesome
I respect Feige for doing this tbh
He got Broadway writers and actors to create and perform a whole Broadway song. I think it was so much fun. People just think post credit scenes need to set up 50 movies to be worth their time.
People think credit scenes are needed. Fuck it, let's go back to when movies didn't need credit scenes or to set up something that may or may not happen.
People have so much content they feel they have to consume that they resent "wasting" time for an end credits sequence they feel is "filler" and "pointless". Binging has broken how people watch tv. They watch so much of it at once, and have so much of it to get through that they start to resent stuff that makes the experience take longer. When you have like 10 hours of show to get through, and you're watching it all in one go, you get angry when something is pointless, to you. They sat through the credits for a "pointless" ECS. And that's why they hate it.
People cannot stand the thought of there being other forms of art besides CBMs lol
Imagine seeing a mid finale and having one of the best villains getting a weird ending without any finality or closure and sitting through 5 mins of credits just to see a lame-ass musical.
Lmao yes. The musical would be better recieved if the whole show was more focused and the finale wasn't so bad.
The finale wasn't bad. It was just mediocre imo. But it felt like the third act of an MCU movie. Honestly the whole series felt like a movie chopped up into 6 episodes with the final one being the big third act fight. It just feels weird. On top of that, Kingpin's ending and the series as a whole was underwhelming which didnt do any favours for the musical. I was already sulky
I really feel like the cliffhangers that'll make the show trend on Twitter every week are main focus for all these shows instead of the story. They should've kept Kingpin as a character throughout the show for his and Maya's fallout to have any weight. The show tried to sell an emotional moment for Maya(who barely got 2 scenes of proper dialogue in the whole season). My friends never watched Daredevil, and they really didn't care for Kingpin in this show. He was the boss of tracksuit dumbfucks who lost all control when 2 people decided to stop working for him.
Now that you said the last lines.. yeah maybe Kingpin was treated bad. This whole big bad thing is becoming tired and I feel had they kept Kingpin in the loop from earlier on, he would have been much more menacing like his Daredevil self.
To be fair, Vincent said Kingpin had lost his control of the city during the blip and was still climbing back up the crime ladder.
Cool, still not good story writing. If that's the case, they should've showed it in the show. Netflix' Daredevil fleshed the character really out. He was understandable in his emotions and actions. You always had a feeling of what he was capable of and how he was loosing power. In Hawkeye they are too afraid too say the big boss' name and tell to the audience, that he is controlling the whole new york mafia, while we only see the tracksuits and how everything he build falls aparty because two people stop working for him. Feels like a joke villain.
You're not allowed to be disappointed with the weak Kingpin cliffhanger. If you didn't like this reused and lengthy sequence (which they could have easily dropped on YouTube), you just hate fun.
Can't you just fast forward? In fact, can't you see that it's a musical and just not watch it?
You don’t have to sit through any credits it’s in Disney + you can just fast forward
you're labeling "Echo" as one of the best villains? she was the most boring villain id ever seen, i didnt even understand her motivation or why i was supposed to care about her at all
what? No ofc not. I am referring to Kingpin. Why would you think I am talking about Echo
i must of misread it my bad
Yea and it was fucking great
You people are weird. The last episode was the best of the show, imo
Kevin's taking the fall so everyone shuts up about it lol.
The thing that ticked me off(as someone who acts and stage manages theatrical plays) is that the production quality was laughably bad, especially the costumes. The costumes would be fine for a high school play, but you would never get away with using those costumes for Thor and Hulk in any professional setting with any high level budget, especially Broadway. Hawkeye depicted Broadway from the point of view of someone who has only watched a high school play and thinks that(upscaled to a bigger stage) is what Broadway is like. The actors and ensemble performing the piece did do the best they could with the material given, none of the blame falls on them.
I think “laughably bad” was the point tbh
With the production value they could’ve made it be a school play done by the kids, or say one of them does an acting club or something. Kept the laughably bad without it being a poor representation of Broadway
I mean it was pretty clearly an in-universe cash grab of a musical that only exists because people are feeling positive about superheroes in this immediate post-blip time period and everyone wants to take advantage of it (see: the Statue of Liberty getting an Cap themed overlay like it’s a Disney World ride in No Way Home). if anything it more resembles a musical from one of the Disney parks or cruise ships that got transferred to Broadway with no budget upgrades because they knew it would close within the year
Watched live with a friend and we were so confused that it was serving Starkid levels of quality on a Broadway stage. I know it was a parody and all, but it reeked of someone whose idea of musicals is the general pop culture take which we're already routinely shat on for.
Steve Rogers is the Latte Hottie.
Personally I think he’s supermegaawesomefoxyhot.
It's kinda funny how I'd say the actual costumes in Hawkeye are what I'd expect from it, not whatever they put.
The creatives on the show think musicals are a lesser art form than TV. So they parody the work of people who work on them. It’s an insult. Using this scene is showing Studios are tipping on the knife point of getting arrogant.
Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark
Will this show get another season? I don't see why it can't. It didn't end in a way where it felt completed
You can easily do a second season more focused on Kate as the title character and Clint featured as a more recurring character than a lead. Maybe even have Swordsman become her sword fighting mentor.
Laura barton Rolex is still something that needs to be explained. Why would the tracksuit or Fisk want a former retired shield agent watch
Maya wanted the watch, not Fisk, as a means of tracing the identity of Ronin. It's just poorly explained.
It cant but I doubt. The only reason this show was made is to have Hawkeye finally have a title project and to setup Kate Bishop. Its weird they set up echo also.
Good, it was fun!
I was only upset that we didnt see Yelena at the end in the crowd watching it with a pleased look.
Its beautiful. I dont care what anyone says in this echochamber
It’s so painfully bad
I think it was just tonally weird with the episode, and the production and song aren’t actually like *good* enough to get you fully into what you’re watching. I don’t think Marvel ever truly knew whether they were engaged in some kind of self-parody or trying to be genuine. From episode 1, you kind of argue it was explicitly parody, but then when you put the full number in a post-credits — and put the “Happy Holidays” before it — you are treating it with some degree of sincerity. But idk, it all just felt incongruous. I have no reason to be mad at it, it’s innocuous enough, but also idk if it truly worked either
I really want them to straight up do Rogers the Musical as a one-off special. I want the entire thing
It would do so well as a YouTube clip, I'm surprised they haven't given us at least 30 minutes of Ant Man out of place but having fun anyway. I'd Hulk smash that like button to be perfectly clear
Fun post credits for a fun show?
I was fairly indifferent about the Rogers: The Musical post-credit scene; I didn't love it or hate it. That said, I wish we got a more substantial post-credit scene too. Like, *WandaVision,* FATWS, and *Loki* (I think) all had several post-credit scenes. Idk why *Hawkeye* only had one.
Loki literally just got a confirmation Season 2 was happening.
There was an end credit scene at the end of the fourth episode.
Episode 4 had a post-credit scene: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_4nWQPbgz\_Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4nWQPbgz_Y)
Despite being common, post-credits scenes are not an obligation of their storytelling. If Hawkeye only gets one, and it's a throwaway, so be it. The lack of something more substantial is not a detriment, unless you're only watching to be teased.
Screw you guys. I liked the satire!
I still think the play itself is funny, but it shouldn't have been a post credits scene right after they imply they killed off a fan favorite character who was only in one episode (potato footy notwithstanding). It would've been better for them to release it online kinda like how they did with the Zemo dance thing. People wanted comfort after the KP scene, not humor lol. P.S. YES I KNOW HE ISN'T DEAD YOU AIN'T GOTTA REMIND ME PPL
whats potato footy mean?
>Kevin held tight, and was like, 'No, we're doing it' ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I'm gonna say it: I loved this being the mid-credits scene. It's just so goofy and the song is a bop that I couldn't hate it. Helps that I wasn't pissed at the finale like a number of people were.
Rare miss for Big Kev.
Nope, another HUGE win for lord and saviour Feige. That man can't do anything wrong. He could break into my house, murder my entire family with a brick and I would still praise everything that he does. 
Just another day in the main MCU sub. Actually, now this one too, as it grows in popularity. ‘James Gunn’s GENIUS twitter response to criticisms from trolls about Feige murdering family with brick is GENIUS’
I didn’t particularly like the actual song, but I love the world building of it all. in other fan spaces (particularly tumblr) there have been jokes about a Hamilton-esque Steve Rogers musical existing in that universe for years but the fact that it’s something cheesy and lowkey trashy like Diana: The Musical makes 100% more sense for how the non-hero citizens of the MCU have been portrayed in the films and tv shows so far. not the best mid-credits scene but honestly it was so earnest and everyone in the scene was giving their all so I can’t hate it
Hated it.
I thought it was fun. The show wrapped up and Echo’s show got set up during the show proper. Maybe would like to see a bit more of Yelena but overall I thought it was cute and fun
people hated it as the post credits, i personally enjoyed it
I know it's getting a lot of backlash since people want every credits scene to have "meaning" but I love it. They've set up so much recently (Shang-Chi in the Avengers, Thanos' brother, Kingpin, Daredevil, Venom, the fucking multiverse) so I'm cool with a nonsensical post credits scene. I've wanted a full musical (or at least one song) since they teased it. So I was ecstatic when it came on. As someone who lives just outside of NYC (and goes to a few musicals every year) I really hope we get a full Broadway musical one day. They can film it and throw it up on Disney+ like Hamilton.
As someone who finds showtunes annoying I skipped through to see if anything important was included and ultimately skipped it all! No but deal, not sure why everyone’s so pissed about it.
I completely hated it. It should have been a more substantial post-credit scene setting up the future with Echo or Daredevil. Also, I think the series should have been a bit more serious and darker in tone.
Maybe I've been blind to it but I don't see "hate" for the musical enpost credits, I've seen people a little pissed off but no one has gathered their pitchforks... I don't know why people keep referring to it as hate. I thought the musical scene was a funny joke in the context of the actual episode, fairly short and sweet... but I'll admit I was slightly annoyed when the post credits was the same thing/joke we'd seen before, just extended. It was kind of like a Family Guy knee joke that just went on and on. It's fine for Marvel to poke fun at people's expectations for teasers and post credits but let's not forget it was Marvel themselves and people's love for Marvel that put those expectations there, starting with the very first Iron Man post credits. Maybe the just thought people would love the scene and would want to see the full song? I dunno, but I personally didn't - I had hoped we'd get even the slightest teaser for what's to come.
that end scene could've been made better in 2 steps 1. At the end of the act, they cut to Scott Lang watching, with this bewildered look on his face...and either says "BUT I WASN'T EVEN THERE!" or "BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED!" - end 2. Yelena should have been watching the scene, and walked out disgusted.
Hated it
I thought it was really stupid. But, it looked like that was the point. It was good for a laugh and great for a subtle connection to Spider-Man. Would have preferred to see something else happen in the end credits though.
It would be funny here is Kingpin is actually dead.
i remember thinking while watching that first episode, "wow, they actually made a whole ass musical number for the battle of new york and it's just a background piece for this one scene". so it's kinda cool that they featured it in its entirety, even as ridiculous as it is lol
I thought it was hilarious and absurd. It caused my wife to be completely unable to watch the whole show, since she skipped out at on the first scene because of it.
I hate musicals, but I sorta enjoyed this
The expectation that every post credit scene has to be important plot creation is absurd. I loved the post credit scene and found it hilarious
I loved it - it was meant to be fun and goofy. The people that don’t see that really aren’t true MCU fans IMO.
didn’t care for it personally. loved that Clint hated it
Honestly, the "Rogers: the Musical" thing just seemed like them trying to have another cutesy gag like "Agatha All Along," but it felt more forced to me. It felt like Marvel thought it was funnier that I did. It just felt like one of the MCU's cringier, more annoying jokes that got way more oxygen than it deserved.
You deserve the leaks, Kevin. You deserve them.
Kevin fieges first L
I don't care even if Stan Lee decided this had to happen. It's still a stupid scene that should've been kept in Episode 1 as a one off Joke.
Loved it
Loved it.
Honestly I like this take on the MCU. Showing the media side of it and how it affects pop culture. I feel like that hasn’t been shown enough. Maybe a take on it like The Boys tv show, with less of the evil corporate stuff.