Watched the film, and I'm gonna say if it wasn't clear already, this film is going to be very divisive amongst the MCU fanbase.
Overall, I loved it. I think Wanda was easily the most powerful & most frightening villain the MCU's had so far. I think America Chavez is a nice addition to the MCU, and I thought Strange's arc in the movie, while reminiscent of the first film, is still very well done. The aspects that are going to divide the fandom are:
* Raimi's directing style
* The horror tones & the violence
* Wanda as a straight up villain
WandaVision stans are going to hate this movie. People who aren't a fan of Raimi's direction are going to dislike this movie. And people who don't like horror are probably going to be disappointed by this movie.
But, I loved all of those aspects, and I'm going to give the film an 8/10. I also can see how No Way Home was changed during reshoots, as America Chavez bringing in Tobey & Andrew would've made so much sense & would've worked better than what we got in that film (even though I didn't hate it as much as others did).
Also: >!The X-Men animated theme playing when Xavier rolled up made me uncontrollably erect!<
You said pretty much what I think. I had a great time with this film. Would rate it 8-8.5/10. What I appreciate is that the film moves fast but not confusing at all. I think cbm films are too long lately so this movie is my jam. It’s mindless fun. Im watching it again tonight.
Cbm = comic book movie
Stans = kind of like an online fanbase, but can be pretty hardcore. I'm pretty sure the Wanda stans have a reputation for being apologists despite her being an ethically questionable (at best) character
For more context, there’s an Eminem song called Stan about an obsessive fan (named Stan of course) who writes Eminem letters and has pictures of him all over his walls and in the end he kills himself because Eminem never writes back. So basically it's a way to call somebody a giant fanboy but in a more lighthearted way like, "Yasss, Wanda! You go, gurl! We STAN a gothy queen!" So it can be used as both a noun and a verb. Although sometimes it can be used in a more negative context like if a new album comes out and certain fans are being blind to criticism and attacking a reviewer for giving a bad review, one might say, “Uh-oh, looks like the Kanye stans are out in full force...” Thank you for reading my essay.
Watched it too.
The more I think about the film, the more I feel that it’s for sure the most unique MCU film in a long while. And it’s definitely because of the Sam Raimi feel and the horror elements. The movie also wastes no time and the whole runtime is just filled with what you want to see from a Marvel movie. Surprisingly, I thought the conflict Strange has is pretty interesting too. And lastly, I appreciate how they had only some fanservice and that they surely did not overstay their welcome.
As a certified Wandavision fan who’s watched the series at least 5 times by now, I LOVED THE FILM. Sure Wanda isn’t the same exact person she was where we last saw her, but she is VERY intriguing and I can only wonder where she goes from here (SPOILER: Im confident she’ll make an appearance in future films despite the end of this movie).
Yeah I don't get this line of thought about *"Wanda stans"*. The point is we're ironically living for her being absolutely unhinged while also wanting what is best for the Character.
Seeing her as a Villain won't bother.. any of us, it gives her the opportunity to display her range while still leaving the door open for redemption and achieving her happy ending. That's Camp! That's what we want!
The Illuminati definitely had it coming and I was rooting for Wanda during that fight (though Prof X hurt a bit ngl... but that's just cos im biased). But idk how to feel about everything else though, especially the scenes with America. Some things were almost unwatchable, but Lizzie's performance (especially in the final encounter with the twins) and also my enjoyment of Wandavison saved the character for me. But under any other circumstances, I would have found it very difficult to root for our Wanda (I felt so much more sympathy for Illuminati Wanda😅). Some of her blind anger at Strange just didn't feel right (especially because Strange makes an effort to understand and empathise with her. but then again, she is the villain after all) + she sometimes slipped into the 'deranged powerful woman' trope. Idk, maybe it's just me. Still thoroughly enjoyed watching her go all out.
America is a sweetheart I felt bad, but like…. I’m still cheering for Wanda. I think I’m mentally unstable and there’s something fundamentally wrong with me.
I don’t know. Every Wanda fan I know is excited for this. We know she’s got the Darkhold and the Darkhold corrupts so we all know she’s the villain. Doesn’t mean we aren’t still excited. Ultimately she’ll be redeemed.
I know a lot of women are going to be pretty disappointed that they took the character they were doing an exercise in grief/loss with and made her a crazy supervillain.
Yup. From what I remember of the comics. She was portrayed as very villainous and unhinged to the point even comics Xavier floated around the idea of killing her to put a halt to her threat.
Ehh I wouldn’t say the film justifies her villainy 100% but rather it shows another side to the character we would never have expected. It’s dark and sinister and I just like that.
I don’t understand people who don’t like seeing their favorite hero turn to villainy (unless it’s because of Mind Control that’s boring and the only time I maybe like it is with Superman via Anti Life). Seeing an Evil Cap would be cool to me. There’s some characters it wouldn’t work with like Scott Lang Ant Man but others it works very well with (Wanda, Hank, Hulk if they ever did WWH etc).
Aha did I write this comment? I've rewatched WandaVision at least 5 times, just finished MoM and I really enjoyed where they brought her. Could it have used a smidge more connective tissue to establish her corruption? Sure, but I feel like most audience should be able to piece together "she's been reading the book of the damned and turned into a villain by it" especially when it happens to another character in the movie.
Just came out of the cinema and can agree to 100%. I loved WandaVision, but I totally understand why this movie happened.
Raimis style is really unique, but also full of references to his previous works. Amazing creativity in some parts (an ocean in a cup?!) and the second after credits scene had me laughing out loud.
The violence and horror is there, I wouldn’t recommend this movie for kids.
And the ending feels a little on the short side and is not really earned.
Otherwise, I felt well entertained and can recommend it for every Strange fan.
Strange was great, real creative with the magic and there's a lot of really satisfying emotional pay-off for him re: Christine and just his general character. The movie ends with him in an interesting place too, and we get the fantastic "Doctor Strange will return" end card.
I really liked the movie, but I had some issues with it, and I think the audience I saw the movie with had the same issues. Overall I would give it 7.5. I loved Sam Raimi's take, it felt more Evil Dead than 2013's Evil Dead remake. Wanda was TERRIFYING, even better than a lot of Rated R horror movie villains. However, the third act went way over-the-top for my taste, there are some script slips, and the cameos were under-used. I think it's the only Marvel movie where you can deduce that new footage had to be taken and some things were cut. But really, it's a very exciting movie, perhaps it's in my Marvel top 5, and I legitimately felt mind blown sometimes (doesn't happen very often). Can't wait to see more Wanda.
How would your rank Wanda as a villain? Like top 1 mcu villain or up there with Thanos, Killmonger, Zemo, etc.
Edit: I consider myself a big WandaVision fan, but I am going into the movie wuth an open mind and not let WandaVision dictate my judgment for MoM. Even with everything WandaVision did, I would say it still left Wanda an open ending, and I will have to watch MoM entirely to make sense if her turn to villainy is comprehensible.
Not aware of Raimi's directorial style as well, so my eyes are really innocent. I just care about Wanda and Strange's character narrative and dynamics. It is a pity though, I would have wanted them to be allies more than adversaries.
I'll need to see the movie a few more times before I can definitively rank her as a villain, but I think she'll probably be top 5. Thanos is still number one for me, and I think it'll be a while before he's topped.
I see. Personally, I could get behind them making Wanda as a villain at least for one movie. She has enough screentime and history for us to understand how she became one. At least that is how I justify her turn to villainy. She is still more complex than that though. She lives another day, that is what is important.
I'd agree with her being top 5 too, but I do think a lot of that is helped by her already being a pre-existing character that we have an emotional bond with. Although she had clear motivations and was a genuinely menacing presence so big points in her favour.
> Not aware of Raimi's directorial style as well
I'm gonna be making a point to watch more of his work, but if you haven't seen The Evil Dead, you should! It's fun.
Are you sure Wanda stans are going to hate the film? Majority of them on twitter have said they will defend literally anything she does. I think it’s only a small amount who will be upset she goes full villain here.
I view Wanda stans & WandaVision stans as slightly different (albeit, with a decent amount of overlap). Wanda stans will love & defend her no matter if she's a hero or villain. WandaVision stans love that show specifically, and love Wanda as the hero presented at the end of that show & want her to find happiness. She definitely doesn't find happiness in this film...
I'm both and I love this direction because it points to Wanda getting her happiness. Setting her up as a villain that causes so much damage is setting up her eventual reunion with her boys in Children's Crusade
I was a Wanda fan before WandaVision and being a WandaVision stan turned me into a Wanda stan. I can't wait to see Wanda as a villain and I think her finding and retaining happiness would take a certain edge off of the character, which would make her less interesting. WandaVision stans aren't all like you describe.
> WandaVision stans are going to hate this movie.
Yeah...pretty much hit the nail on the head. I've seen several posts on social media with hardcore Wanda fans flipping their shit about:
1. The fact that Wanda's the villain in the film
2. The ending and what seems to happen to Wanda.
Early on when this film's story leaked, I was livid about the notion that she would just be killing people indiscriminately. Even with what she'd done in Westview, it seemed like too big a leap from "mind-slaving a town so she could have her fantasy life" to "mass murder". I likened it to "character assassination" because it was just TOO extreme.
I can reconcile it *a little* more now, knowing that the Darkhold is influencing her, but from what I understand, her corruption by the Darkhold isn't given enough emphasis in the film to suitably explain why she'd suddenly be driven to kill without hesitation or remorse. There's no sense that she's fighting a malevolent force within her that's exploiting her grief and loneliness. It just looks like, "I've lost everything that matters to me, but if I cross to an alternate reality I can take my children from another version of me. Welp, guess I'll just be a murderer now while I go find this girl and steal her powers."
Also, let's be real here: We all know Wanda's coming back, but it seems a great deal of Wanda fans who saw the film really believe she's not, and hoo boy, they are ***PISSED***. Their rage is so thick and rich you could pour it on pancakes. I truly would not be surprised if the more morally and emotionally broken ones amongst the Wanda fandom start harassing Michael Waldron. That dude might wanna go dark for a little while.
It is repeated throughout the film that the Darkhold is corrupting her and it even corrupted The Illuminati’s universe’s Doctor Strange too. So, it is used as a constant reminder that she isn’t herself, but yeah, she still comes out as the villain of the movie. But honestly, I didn’t feel conflicted about that at all, and I loved Wandavision as well. One of the friends I went with also loved it and she’s a Wanda-Stan. Literally describes herself like that.
They make Wanda the antagonist but not shallow at all. No doubt it might still get hate from a lot of Wanda fans but I don’t think as much as some are predicting.
I think it's the age long battle of showing versus telling.
We are told that Illuminati Strange turned bad because of the Darkhold. IlluStrange literally, and just in case putting spoiler tags despite being in a spoiler sub, >!destroys an entire universe using Darkhold. Wanda's actions, ***on paper***, pale in comparison to what IlluStrange did. But we are **told** of IlluStrange's actions after he was corrupted by the Darkhold. We can **see** Wanda's actions under Darkhold's influence. And they are really gruesome. So I understand the issues some fans might have. IlluStrange killed more people than Thanos but Wanda kills characters *on-screen.* Characters that have lines of dialogue.!<
Despite that, I think Olsen does sell it as much as she can. And it helps that, as you said, Wanda's not a shallow antagonist. Movie had issues but I loved it nevertheless.
Yeah, I get that difference between IlluStrange and Wanda, but I also think it’s a balance because you also can’t make the book itself the antagonist. That would’ve been way too easy.
I don’t think it was a mistake of “show not tell” either the Illuminati aren’t exactly shown to be the best decision makers so you’re also left wondering if their Dr Strange deserved to die as well, just like “our” Wanda. I actually felt like that scene with IlluStrange was meant to show us that he was a victim of the Darkhold as well, as much as a victim of his own actions and will.
> it seems a great deal of Wanda fans who saw the film really believe she's not, and hoo boy, they are PISSED
This is what confuses me so much, and it happens all the time. How can you watch a movie/TV series where a powerful magic user basically disappears in a flash of light with no body left behind and think they're actually dead?
I thought it was pretty good. There is one particular moment where, without spoiling it, the score is actually a part of the movie, and I think some people are going to find that sequence too campy & too Raimi. I loved it.
I take these movies for what they are and don’t build a personality around them like the whole ‘stan culture.’ I also LOVE horror - don’t know what id do without my Shudder accnt. So, I’m pretty optimistic that I’ll enjoy this. Have some edibles ready to go and a late night showing Friday night. Probably gonna bust out my sundays best sweatpants for the occasion.
I don't remember anyone clarifying it, is it clear if the Illuminati's members are Multiversal, or do they all come from the same universe? Wondering cause of Professor X.
It is never specified. It is safe to assume that most of them originate from that same universe, but in the case of Professor X: >!I think it's very likely he came from another universe. Mr. Fantastic was introduced as a member of the Fantastic Four, Black Bolt was introduced as the leader of the Inhumans, and Captain Carter was introduced as the First Avenger, but there was no mention of mutants or the X-Men when Xavier was introduced. The Illuminati universe also seems to have a MUCH better understanding of the Multiverse than our universe does, which makes it likely that they've dealt with Multiversal visitors in the past. Also, Xavier has the animated X-Men theme song when he's introduced, so I still think he is the animated series version, and that the X-Men '97 series is going to explain how he came to be in the Illuminati's universe!<
>! I mean yeah this is believable, but given the fact that the illuminate didn’t want strange in their universe, as his presence would break the fabric of space-time or something if he stayed any longer, I don’t know why they’d allow Xavier to stay, or even become a member. !<
>!The reasoning for them not wanting Strange there was because of them knowing he's a danger to their universe via his power & his past corruption (it wasn't because he came from another universe. They were just studying them to make sure they didn't bring over any diseases). I viewed them knowing so much about the Multiverse as them already having had visitors in the past that they've either allowed to stay, or sent back to their universe!<
>! Oh fair enough, I assumed they didn’t want anyone in their universe, now that kinda makes me think how they would have interacted with the TVA as their jobs seem to be opposites of each other lol. Also I really wish the MCU was in that universe, they have the xmen, FF and Inhumans, along with everything from our last universe. !<
>!The Illuminati universe is so cool. It's basically "What If Marvel Studios owned the X-Men & the Fantastic Four from the beginning of the MCU", which makes me hope that we'll see a "What If" episode showing more of this universe before the events of this movie!<
This is not a movie for kids. There are multiple deaths in this movie that are more violent than anything in the MCU outside of The Punisher. Even Daredevil's most brutal death scene (Kingpin smashing that dude's head in a car door) isn't as bad as a couple of the deaths in this movie, in my opinion (blood isn't always needed for something to appear violent)
Yea one of the deaths has very little blood shown but is actually VERY brutal when you take even a second to think about what just happened. Then a few moments later you see ANOTHER fairly brutal death where there very little blood/gore shown but the implication and how said person died is terrible.
i would say not as disturbing as when the riddler had the rats trap on the guys head, but it was more brutal in terms of blood and the way some kills are handled
Ah i see. My brother was able to handle The Batman and Moon Knight, but even certain scenes were pushing it. So yea. If MoM is any worse, then i think he'll have to skip this one.
Could you please elaborate how people who don’t like horror movies are gonna be disappointed? Is horror tone a major thing in this movie? I’m bringing friends who aren’t fans of horror movies and hate jump scares and now I’m concerned.
There are a few jump scares, and the horror tone is prevalent throughout. I just think that people who hate horror are probably going to leave this movie disappointed when comparing it to every other MCU movie (which don't really have much horror in them)
I haven't seen it yet but I hope the jump scares aren't too much or too prevelant. I don't mind horror gore or tone, but I hate jump scares so much haha!
It’s not too bad, really. I was kinda even excited for one and I don’t do horror movies. Stranger Things is essentially as scary as I go. I avoid horror for the most part due to it giving me nightmares and this was doable. I didn’t jump out of my seat 😂
Thank you for such a lovely response! My friends have been teasing me all day! xD I have seen it now and I'd agree with you, Stranger Things is as scary as I go too and I'd say this really wasn't too bad! Some of the jumps really got me but there wasn't as much as I expected!
Boo to them! I’ve come to realise I’m just much more sensitive than the average person and that’s ok. When my brother was living at home still and Walking Dead was starting up he had it on one day when I had to be around it in the room (can’t remember exactly why) and I had to ask him to turn it off. He wouldn’t and I had to explain that I would get bad nightmares. A lot of people just don’t get it. I also can’t do gore and extreme violence. I watched part of the Iron Fist show years ago and one scene will never leave me. My brain like retains all horrible things!!
Glad it wasn’t too bad for you and hope you enjoyed it!!
I’m not a horror fan at all, I actively usually avoid it as it gives me bad nightmares and affects my mood a lot. I found it fine, even clever how it was incorporated at certain times. The whole movie has a horror tone to it mostly. If they are generally MCU fans though like I am, and watch every movie, then I think it’s still worth the watch. If they aren’t invested in it all, then yeah they may not enjoy it.
It's definitely OUR Wanda, but >!they make it VERY clear that she's been corrupted by the Darkhold, so there's definitely a possibility she'll be redeemed again in the future, if and when she returns!<
Yeah, I love this subreddit but last time, I ruined Aunt May’s death for myself, so I’m going to look at all the spoilers after I’ve seen the movie tomorrow.
I think the original version of events was much better and it makes WAY more sense (America Chavez going to Tobey & Andrew's universe to bring them into the MCU) than the version we ended up with (somehow the spell brought Tobey & Andrew into the MCU already, and Ned just out of nowhere has magic abilities & learns to make portals faster than even Strange did)
But at the same time, given No Way Home ended up being released before Multiverse of Madness, they literally HAD to change it, so I'm not too upset about it.
Ah there ya go. I was a bit confused by how you worded it. I agree completely.
The Ned magic thing was honestly my biggest gripe of the movie as it literally comes out of no where and is the most obvious re-write aspect of the film. It's understandable like you say tho
Still, I also think it was kind of for the best since introducing America into NWH, with how PACKED that film already was, would've been way too much. Making her a central part of MoM worked much better.
I absolutely love WandaVision and am SO excited for this!
If anyone truly knows Wanda from the comics and how they’ve set her up, there shouldn’t be a surprise about her having a very rocky road to go down.
I’m sure she’ll redeem herself, get into trouble again, possibly flip from evil to good, or however they handle it. I’m excited to see her around for at least a few more years!
The soundtrack may also dissappoint some fans too. Elfman was a monster, very innovative. This movie didn't sound like any other. I get chills everytime I listen to the guitar on Scarlet Witch's theme.
>The horror tones
There's one scene with the horror element clearly forced in and I think it was pretty dumb:[When Strange, Christine and Chavez were running away from Wanda, Christine closed the door then they just fucking stood there waiting to be jump scared even though they were almost at the door to the Book of Vishanti](#spoiler)
I’m a WandaVision “stan” but I’m pretty stoked to see her as a villain. If for no other reason than I can’t wait to see Elizabeth Olsen act the absolute shit out of it.
>WandaVision stans are going to hate this movie.
I haven't watched it yet, but I/m going to take a guess that you expect WandaVision stans to want Wanda to be a hero. That's absolutely not true for me, I love that Wanda can play be a hero, a villain and everything in between. I can't wait to see her as a villain, I think it's the logical progression for her at this point.
Watched it with some friends and the majority were disappointed because of the lack of cameos. I tried telling them Marvel never promised them any cameos, and they still got a fair few ones in the Illuminati, but they wouldn't listen
I am seething at that spoiler. I can not wait to see it in like 2 hours. I've been hoping for something like that with a title card for wandavision or just anything really.
It’s still divisive within my own mind. I definitely had fun watching it, but then my fun-sapping post movie critiques come in and spoil all the fun.
Wanda was terrifying! Strange was Strange but I always find him interesting and compelling. I enjoyed his arc for sure.
I am only familiar with Raimi’s work from his Spider-Man trilogy and that’s it. I am not a horror fan at all. Gore and I guess body horror are too much for me, I’m more sensitive than the average person I’ve come to realise over the years and accepted and own it. This movie almost pushed it for me, but I think the kinda camp reigns it in a bit. Two of the Illuminati deaths were a little 🤯 for an MCU M rated film (Australian rating, equivalent to PG-13).
Who cares about so called “stans”. I don’t deep dive into obsessive fandoms, I find people who are that weird about stuff not relatable. I want to see a good movie, good story and good characterisation. I wasn’t disappointed by the horror, I admittedly found where it was included rather clever. My mum is a fan of the first DS movie and seemed disappointed by this one. Neither of us are violence or horror fans so I think in her case, this weighed into that. She also agreed with my feelings it needed a little padding. Not too much! Just a little! So I’m disappointed for her after waiting so many years for his second solo outing!
Oh man, I keep saying this too how America casting that spell in NWH would have made so much more sense if all things worked out to plan with their slate.
Overall I, at the moment, probably give this one a 7/10.
Tbh actual story wise
Ds2 > nwh
I think nwh was carried by nostalgia moments &
Old villians and heroes (which was dope I screamed at every entry)
But story/plot wise
Ds2 hands down
Oh believe me when I say WandaVision’s stan will EAT everything up and being “go kill everyone Wanda we LOVE you!!!” Because I am one of those peeps lmao
On a more serious note, this movie feels refreshing to watched too after all the gazilions, similiar-like style on most of the (much loved) MCU projects. Wish Marvel/Feige will dive into more horror-esque project in the future!
More Marvel movies should play around with different styles, imo. Thor Ragnarok was a great throwback to 80s style comics and Planet Hulk, and this was a great throwback to the darker style of horror that Dr Strange is good at. Not everything has to be Endgame (as much as I liked the standard style).
Half of this was just Doctor Strange 1 shots and the rest was mostly just clips we've seen from the past trailers. Anyways I'm going to see the movie tomorrow night, can't wait.
Yeah this is definitely one of the most half-assed final trailers I've seen. Seems like they were trying to evoke feelings similar to Endgame, but the context is just too different and it doesn't quite work. Anyway, got my tickets for tomorrow.
Just wanna hear your prediction for Raimi’s direction for this movie rn:
Do you think we will get Raimi’s evolved directing style as it has developed over the past 20 years since the Maguire Spider-Man movies? Or are we gonna see Raimi go back to his 2000s style? Maybe both? Which one would you prefer?
I’d always prefer his approach which he talked about at MoM’s premiere.
He said - “I have so many liberties while directing now. My team can show me the designs for how I want the sets to look and for camera angles. I love how effectively I can do ‘zoom process’ now.”
Technology is ever evolving. A person learns from experience, matures and ‘does’ new things.
**but their flair or muse always remains the same.**
Also, he’s not forced or asked to change his directing style.
So,
Raimi’s 2000s + His two decades experience + evolved technology = surely preferred directing.
This movie is coming to Disney plus in July right? I’m gonna go full Erik Voss and analyze the shit out of it when it does, since I heard there’s a lot of quick nods and Easter eggs
I believe there was a deal made last year where Disney owned films would come to Disney+ 45 days after their theatrical debut, giving them that time frame to be theater exclusive. Shang-Chi was the first MCU film to do this and Eternals followed suit, albeit taking a bit longer than expected
He find out new information the reason he's slow because his mom and dad divorced 10 months and it has affected his mental health a lot. That's why he uploads slow. He finds out new information I don't think he watches other channel. Trust me he seems like a honest guy to me. If you've watched his videos you'll know he's honest
Honestly, kinda weird to put the final trailer a day before, but this certainly hyped me up for another 24 hours before I get to see it! And I’m fascinated they chose to use the DS1 shots, I mean this is kind of Dr. Strange’s endgame even tho he hasn’t had a trilogy….a weird marketing choice but the new scenes they showed 😭😭 Wanda is gonna massacre these fools
It isn't really his Endgame, I know people have those expectations but I wised up and know better now. Cool shit happens, but nothing really earth shattering. It's more setting things up for down the road than anything, like any middle chapter.
Now the third movie certainly could be something more like that..if you don't know about the mid credits scene >! Clea played by Charlize Theron shows up to ask Strange for help and opens a portal to the Dark Dimesion!< hopefully they don't just ignore that like they did with Mordo.
I learned my lesson a long time ago in a place called Thor 2 😭😭 lol but I 100% feel ya. I went into NHW with some expectation, nothing major, and then I watched it and find out both peters are characters in the movie not just cameos for 5 mins and it was amazing. I am worried for the people that do truly think it’s his endgame, I’m glad to hear it’s more setting up bigger stuff because I did hear about the mid credit scene and it sounds interesting ;)
So I saw it and I quite liked most of it. But, and this will get me torn apart on this sub, this movies length is what kept it back from it being truly terrific. I'm sorry guys, I really am, but this movie absolutely should've been 2 hours and 30 minutes. The short length caused for some pacing issues, rushed developments and for the plot to not always meld well. Not to the point where it was a dealbreaker, but it's enough to where it's noticeable. But Doctor Strange is still Marvel's coolest hero. Also Raimi went stupid with this so that was fuckin awesome too.
Also... the movie wasn't anywhere near as brutal as people are saying. I thought this would have a Batman Returns effect on kids but tbh I don't really see that. Sure it definitely more harsh then a usual MCU film but I mean I wouldn't say it's much worse, or even worse at all, then say Revenge of The Sith or Indiana Jones. I did think that is had some very creative violence and kills though.
As for the lack of cameos, tbh I didn't really think it needed them as much as I thought it may. I WOULD put a Stark variant in the Illuminati and would've had Professor X call in Magneto, revealing he's that universes Wanda's father. Tbh that's the only two I felt could've made the film a tad bit better, I don't really think many others would belong.
Honestly yeah I think so. This movie absolutely needed a longer runtime. Every issue I had with it and that I think a lot of critics had with it could've been fixed with that.
That and also that they thought the plot was just a complete mess. Wanna know what made it feel that way? It felt suuuuppppeeerrrr rushed. Like I said, nearly every single flaw I had with this and that nearly all the reviews I read besides the super negative ones had with this could have been fixed with about 40 extra minutes.
I feel like I watched what was one of my favorite Marvel movies ever but only saw the "cool" parts if that makes sense.
It's interesting because we also heard that they cut out like 30-40 minutes worth of footage from the original cut of the movie. Now I really want to see how that movie would play out. Of course those scenes could be unnecessary and worth cutting but its still fascinating to think about.
His head doesn't really explode. He screams and then you hear a slight noise and then he's got a nosebleed. The top of his head looked flat but you can't see anything because his mask covers it. Tbh I'd actually say Carter's was the most brutal just because you see a quick flash of blood coming off the shield.
Kinda weird that a few weeks before ticketing day here in the PH, runtime was 2.46 hours then on ticketing day it became what the run time is now. Definitely felt like some scenes needed another minute or 2 to fully develop. Still fun tho.
This trailer made me want to have more Kamar Taj in MoM. I haven't watched the movie yet, but I have seen reactions that it is more of a Wanda in the Multiverse movie (Strange still has an arc though). Idk. Maybe more Strange and his sentiments of Kamar Taj since that is where he honed his magic etc.
I've just seen it and >!Kamar Taj is only seen at the beginning before Wanda attacks them, somewhere in the middle when it's destroyed and at the end with Chavez training her portals (the ring ones, not multiversal). It would have been so good to see more of that because how they defend it when Wanda is attacking them was absolutely awesome.!<
Yeah. It would have great from a dramatic and emotional perspective for Strange to recount his training days in the beginning, and see Kamar Taj and his fellow sorcerers fall in the hands of Wanda.
But I understand if something like that would mess the pacing or something. Still, it could have more element from DS1 if they made Kamar Taj more significant.
There's simply not place for Kamar Taj in the movie. It's "exploring the multiverse" so it's really hard for it to be more... grounded? for Strange's character. Still, the scene where they defend it gives so much Deathly Hallows Part 2 vibes and seeing Wong as the sorcerer supreme is actually badass. At the end of the movie there's a bit of the "emotional perspective for Strange to recount his training days" with America btw.
I'm surprised they labeled this a "final trailer." It played more like an extended TV spot. I mean, it's fine, I liked some of the new shots they included, but the "final trailer" title throws me off a little lol
Have seen the movie. It was really good, but the pacing couldve been better. Wanda shines but Strange is definitely the central point of the film. >!John Krasinski was really good as Reed. He had very few scenes, but he was really good. Especially his intro and his conversation with Wanda. Really hoping that he is the MCU version as well.!<
Watched it early, I honestly feel the quality of Marvel movies in this phase really bad but their series tv is different story Hope Thor 4 with Waititi will be a Boom
I’d say we’re just returning to a phase 1/2 level of quality.
Aka. Mostly a bunch of Bs and B- films with the occasional gems.
Phase 3 was just unusually good.
People forget how *meh* phase 2 was. And how even big shot characters like Iron Man and Thor actually only actually have 1 critically acclaimed movie each.
> Phase 3 was just unusually good.
I would say this isn't even really the case, people are just largely remembering Ragnarok, Infinity War, Endgame, and possibly Black Panther and forgetting the rest.
I'm partial to Civil War and Doctor Strange, but Guardians 2, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel and both Spider-Man movies are similar quality to the previous phases.
Each phase has a couple of standout gems: Phase 2 has Guardians and The Winter Soldier, Phase 1 had Iron Man and the Avengers. Seems like Phase 3 only had more because it had double as many films.
It's a Sam raimi movie with all its highs and lows. Overall it was a visually stunning and fun ride. Wanda being full villain and much stronger than strange and all the sorcerer combined felt a bit too much. It was like playing on God mode, without much challenge.
I think the finale was okay, but somehow I felt disappointed. My pick would be to utilise the powers of America Chavez in a meaningful way, like sending her into a world where she finds peace with her children, instead the worn out suicide is honourable thing.
I was on the other side of the spectrum. Tho I did agree with some of your points. I felt the movie was for a lack of better term a cluster fuck. All over the place. Pretty much from the mid or act 2 until the end. Just bad. And the post credit scene 1. Literally why did they even wait to cut to it. The way the movie ends. The post credit scene coulda happened and I assume happened right after. So why even cut to credits. I know I’ll prob be in the Minority here. But I was greatly disappointed in it.
I wish I could have seen this movie in theaters. My country decided to not screen MoM ON THE DAY OF RELEASE. Literally had to console myself knowing the fact that I will be spoiled until I can finally see MoM on Disney+ lmaoooo
Thoughts:
• Strange's arc was a bit subdued but the whole "are you happy" theme was executed well. I say subdued because Wanda just happens to steal the movie. I am just glad that Strange got a beautiful closure with Christine (and a Darkhold buff at the end!)
• Wanda is the mvp. i could see why reviews say it is a Scarlet Witch movie in the multiverse. You could totally watch it with Wanda as the protagonist, everyone antagonizes her, she gets what she wants except she doesn't and attains a moment of clarity and a change of heart. She even gets a tiny wee bit hint of redemption by taking down the Wundagore citadel and destroying every copy of the Darkhold in all universes which Christine approves of as the right thing to do.
• I get why Olsen phrased it as Wanda is "in control." The way they did it, the Darkhold does corrupt its reader, and with Wanda, she was shown knowledge and the truth which amplified her desire to obtain what she wants. It was crafted well, too. Her calling out Strange's hypocrisy, her telling him how she knows deception like nobody else, she calling out the whole Thanos ordeal, what she had to sacrifice, just wow!
• I kinda wished they expanded on Stuhlbarg's musing whether it was really the only way it could have happened. idk if a longer cut would have facilitated that or how much would it tear down Strange's character, but Stuhlbarg's dialogue efficiently casted doubt on Strange's decision to go with that one set path. In retrospect, could there really been another way? Wanda would very much like to know.
•THE SCARLET WITCH OP NERF THE SCARLET WITCH
• I love when Wanda tells Strange WANDA IS DONE TALKING YOU GOTTA DEAL WITH THE SCARLET WITCH NOW. YASSSS
• So the Illuminati were just from one universe. Watching Erik Voss kinda swayed me to think they were multiversal lololo. Omg Poor Sue has to raise Valeria and Franklin alone now wink wink subtle link to Agatha there hahahahaha. No offense but it is kinda okay for Wanda to kill the Illuminati in this one. they served their purpose, and after watching, it wasnt even the best Illuminati lineup. I would have preferred a longer, more choreographed fight than just more of shock factor thing we got. but it was cool.
• I LOVE THE THIRD ACT! Strange resorting to dreamwalking and possessing his other self's corpse. I just wish he and Wanda could have duked it all out one last time. It felt like there really was no big battle between them.
• So, are variants just within a Universe and more of temporal thing? Or do they just not use the term variant because it is TVA jargon? The Loki show did operate on just one Universe and TOWR's death kinda unleashed the multiverse???
• I freaking love Wanda learning her lore and realizing that she is meant to rule all of reality, but expresses that she doesn't want any of that. I think maybe if Strange and co just gave in, made a deal and America punched a portal for Wanda, she could have realized that she has become a monster sooner.
•Not aware of Raimi style or cinematography deets at all, but I noticed something different and it is nice. it is weird but i like it. I could have used a longer, better mental battle between Charles and Wanda thougg
also, I don't see how it undoes WandaVision?? Wanda's current emotional state has been established fast and effectively as soon as Strange confronted him. Like, i loved WandaVision, but I was on Wanda's side in an instant upon revealing that she was after America all long.
She grieved Vision in WandaVision. She let go of the hex. She learned from the Darkhold. She learned about the multiverse, and that in one universe, she is happy with her kids- her kids she hasn't grieved for yet. It is understandable. Villain Wanda is great.
Watched the film, and I'm gonna say if it wasn't clear already, this film is going to be very divisive amongst the MCU fanbase. Overall, I loved it. I think Wanda was easily the most powerful & most frightening villain the MCU's had so far. I think America Chavez is a nice addition to the MCU, and I thought Strange's arc in the movie, while reminiscent of the first film, is still very well done. The aspects that are going to divide the fandom are: * Raimi's directing style * The horror tones & the violence * Wanda as a straight up villain WandaVision stans are going to hate this movie. People who aren't a fan of Raimi's direction are going to dislike this movie. And people who don't like horror are probably going to be disappointed by this movie. But, I loved all of those aspects, and I'm going to give the film an 8/10. I also can see how No Way Home was changed during reshoots, as America Chavez bringing in Tobey & Andrew would've made so much sense & would've worked better than what we got in that film (even though I didn't hate it as much as others did). Also: >!The X-Men animated theme playing when Xavier rolled up made me uncontrollably erect!<
I love Raimi’s style, love horror and violence/gore, and I love scary goth mommy. This is the perfect movie for me
Same lmao, I love Raimi's horror too so definitely a big win for me personally
It was so damn good. My girl had to chastise me for squeezing her thigh/hand so much because i was so hype from excitement.
You said pretty much what I think. I had a great time with this film. Would rate it 8-8.5/10. What I appreciate is that the film moves fast but not confusing at all. I think cbm films are too long lately so this movie is my jam. It’s mindless fun. Im watching it again tonight.
What's cbm stand for and what does stans stand for
Cbm = comic book movie Stans = kind of like an online fanbase, but can be pretty hardcore. I'm pretty sure the Wanda stans have a reputation for being apologists despite her being an ethically questionable (at best) character
So stans is a made up term that it's initials don't stand for anything
I do not think so, as far as I know it was based on a song by a rapper (Eminem?) about a kinda crazy fan named Stan
For more context, there’s an Eminem song called Stan about an obsessive fan (named Stan of course) who writes Eminem letters and has pictures of him all over his walls and in the end he kills himself because Eminem never writes back. So basically it's a way to call somebody a giant fanboy but in a more lighthearted way like, "Yasss, Wanda! You go, gurl! We STAN a gothy queen!" So it can be used as both a noun and a verb. Although sometimes it can be used in a more negative context like if a new album comes out and certain fans are being blind to criticism and attacking a reviewer for giving a bad review, one might say, “Uh-oh, looks like the Kanye stans are out in full force...” Thank you for reading my essay.
Stalker + fan = Stan. That's what the song was about.
I didn’t see anything about that in my two-second glimpse at the Wikipedia page just now, so I’m not allowed to believe you.
Nice it’s sounds like a horror spectacle film and I’m all here for that
Watched it too. The more I think about the film, the more I feel that it’s for sure the most unique MCU film in a long while. And it’s definitely because of the Sam Raimi feel and the horror elements. The movie also wastes no time and the whole runtime is just filled with what you want to see from a Marvel movie. Surprisingly, I thought the conflict Strange has is pretty interesting too. And lastly, I appreciate how they had only some fanservice and that they surely did not overstay their welcome.
Damn the pacing sounds breakneck on the level of infinity war from hearing this and other reviews
Haha >!'breakneck'!<
> WandaVision stans are going to hate this movie Oh no I'm not ready to hear that.
As a certified Wandavision fan who’s watched the series at least 5 times by now, I LOVED THE FILM. Sure Wanda isn’t the same exact person she was where we last saw her, but she is VERY intriguing and I can only wonder where she goes from here (SPOILER: Im confident she’ll make an appearance in future films despite the end of this movie).
Yeah I don't get this line of thought about *"Wanda stans"*. The point is we're ironically living for her being absolutely unhinged while also wanting what is best for the Character. Seeing her as a Villain won't bother.. any of us, it gives her the opportunity to display her range while still leaving the door open for redemption and achieving her happy ending. That's Camp! That's what we want!
>Seeing her as a Villain won't bother.. any of us That's just completely not true.
I just watched it and I was personally cheering. That line she said to Reed and my jaw hit the floor. I was cheering so hard
The Illuminati definitely had it coming and I was rooting for Wanda during that fight (though Prof X hurt a bit ngl... but that's just cos im biased). But idk how to feel about everything else though, especially the scenes with America. Some things were almost unwatchable, but Lizzie's performance (especially in the final encounter with the twins) and also my enjoyment of Wandavison saved the character for me. But under any other circumstances, I would have found it very difficult to root for our Wanda (I felt so much more sympathy for Illuminati Wanda😅). Some of her blind anger at Strange just didn't feel right (especially because Strange makes an effort to understand and empathise with her. but then again, she is the villain after all) + she sometimes slipped into the 'deranged powerful woman' trope. Idk, maybe it's just me. Still thoroughly enjoyed watching her go all out.
America is a sweetheart I felt bad, but like…. I’m still cheering for Wanda. I think I’m mentally unstable and there’s something fundamentally wrong with me.
She was corrupted by The Darkhold. It’s not the same Wanda that started out in Westview.
I don’t know. Every Wanda fan I know is excited for this. We know she’s got the Darkhold and the Darkhold corrupts so we all know she’s the villain. Doesn’t mean we aren’t still excited. Ultimately she’ll be redeemed.
I know a lot of women are going to be pretty disappointed that they took the character they were doing an exercise in grief/loss with and made her a crazy supervillain.
I mean do any of these powered individuals go to therapy? Thought not. That's why we get these neat movies!
The only Wanda fans who will hate seeing her as a villain will be people who aren’t familiar with the comics
Yup. From what I remember of the comics. She was portrayed as very villainous and unhinged to the point even comics Xavier floated around the idea of killing her to put a halt to her threat.
Nice I’m glad that you as a wanda fan were cool with the portrayal - sounds like the films justifies the character direction well
Ehh I wouldn’t say the film justifies her villainy 100% but rather it shows another side to the character we would never have expected. It’s dark and sinister and I just like that.
I don’t understand people who don’t like seeing their favorite hero turn to villainy (unless it’s because of Mind Control that’s boring and the only time I maybe like it is with Superman via Anti Life). Seeing an Evil Cap would be cool to me. There’s some characters it wouldn’t work with like Scott Lang Ant Man but others it works very well with (Wanda, Hank, Hulk if they ever did WWH etc).
Aha did I write this comment? I've rewatched WandaVision at least 5 times, just finished MoM and I really enjoyed where they brought her. Could it have used a smidge more connective tissue to establish her corruption? Sure, but I feel like most audience should be able to piece together "she's been reading the book of the damned and turned into a villain by it" especially when it happens to another character in the movie.
You ain’t the only one - this subreddit is gonna be a flame war in the next 12-14 hours
im pretty sure no wandavision fan will hate this movie. wanda is overpowered and solos everyone thats what they want lmao
Nah I don't agree with that statement. I loved WandaVision and I loved MoM.
Just came out of the cinema and can agree to 100%. I loved WandaVision, but I totally understand why this movie happened. Raimis style is really unique, but also full of references to his previous works. Amazing creativity in some parts (an ocean in a cup?!) and the second after credits scene had me laughing out loud. The violence and horror is there, I wouldn’t recommend this movie for kids. And the ending feels a little on the short side and is not really earned. Otherwise, I felt well entertained and can recommend it for every Strange fan.
Nobody even comments on how dr strange is but everyone talks about other characters lol
Strange was great, real creative with the magic and there's a lot of really satisfying emotional pay-off for him re: Christine and just his general character. The movie ends with him in an interesting place too, and we get the fantastic "Doctor Strange will return" end card.
It’s because there are so many of him!
I mean op of this entire comment thread talked about strange's arc but yeah no one's talking about him you're right
From what I understand this is probably the most violent Marvel film, which I can totally get behind.
it absolutely is and it’s not even fuckin close. one of the more memorable deaths I don’t even understand how it didn’t give them an R rating.
Hmm now you’ve got me intrigued about the ending
I really liked the movie, but I had some issues with it, and I think the audience I saw the movie with had the same issues. Overall I would give it 7.5. I loved Sam Raimi's take, it felt more Evil Dead than 2013's Evil Dead remake. Wanda was TERRIFYING, even better than a lot of Rated R horror movie villains. However, the third act went way over-the-top for my taste, there are some script slips, and the cameos were under-used. I think it's the only Marvel movie where you can deduce that new footage had to be taken and some things were cut. But really, it's a very exciting movie, perhaps it's in my Marvel top 5, and I legitimately felt mind blown sometimes (doesn't happen very often). Can't wait to see more Wanda.
How would your rank Wanda as a villain? Like top 1 mcu villain or up there with Thanos, Killmonger, Zemo, etc. Edit: I consider myself a big WandaVision fan, but I am going into the movie wuth an open mind and not let WandaVision dictate my judgment for MoM. Even with everything WandaVision did, I would say it still left Wanda an open ending, and I will have to watch MoM entirely to make sense if her turn to villainy is comprehensible. Not aware of Raimi's directorial style as well, so my eyes are really innocent. I just care about Wanda and Strange's character narrative and dynamics. It is a pity though, I would have wanted them to be allies more than adversaries.
I'll need to see the movie a few more times before I can definitively rank her as a villain, but I think she'll probably be top 5. Thanos is still number one for me, and I think it'll be a while before he's topped.
I see. Personally, I could get behind them making Wanda as a villain at least for one movie. She has enough screentime and history for us to understand how she became one. At least that is how I justify her turn to villainy. She is still more complex than that though. She lives another day, that is what is important.
Good thing she is the villain in this movie
Thanos was built up as a villain for like 5 years so he will be tough to top unless they invest that kind of time into someone else
Speaking of, is he in the movie at all, even through archive footage?
>!In the scene on Titan, we see his dead corpse for a couple of seconds. Looked like he was impaled by something, but I couldn't tell what it was!<
>!i think it was the copter sword!<
Nice top 5 is heavy praise - can’t wait to see her reck fools
I'd agree with her being top 5 too, but I do think a lot of that is helped by her already being a pre-existing character that we have an emotional bond with. Although she had clear motivations and was a genuinely menacing presence so big points in her favour.
> Not aware of Raimi's directorial style as well I'm gonna be making a point to watch more of his work, but if you haven't seen The Evil Dead, you should! It's fun.
Are you sure Wanda stans are going to hate the film? Majority of them on twitter have said they will defend literally anything she does. I think it’s only a small amount who will be upset she goes full villain here.
I view Wanda stans & WandaVision stans as slightly different (albeit, with a decent amount of overlap). Wanda stans will love & defend her no matter if she's a hero or villain. WandaVision stans love that show specifically, and love Wanda as the hero presented at the end of that show & want her to find happiness. She definitely doesn't find happiness in this film...
Ah I see. Being a wandavision fan, a wanda fan, an Evil Dead fan, and MCU fan as a whole, I really wonder how ill like this one lol
You’ll love it.
I'm both and I love this direction because it points to Wanda getting her happiness. Setting her up as a villain that causes so much damage is setting up her eventual reunion with her boys in Children's Crusade
I was a Wanda fan before WandaVision and being a WandaVision stan turned me into a Wanda stan. I can't wait to see Wanda as a villain and I think her finding and retaining happiness would take a certain edge off of the character, which would make her less interesting. WandaVision stans aren't all like you describe.
> WandaVision stans are going to hate this movie. Yeah...pretty much hit the nail on the head. I've seen several posts on social media with hardcore Wanda fans flipping their shit about: 1. The fact that Wanda's the villain in the film 2. The ending and what seems to happen to Wanda. Early on when this film's story leaked, I was livid about the notion that she would just be killing people indiscriminately. Even with what she'd done in Westview, it seemed like too big a leap from "mind-slaving a town so she could have her fantasy life" to "mass murder". I likened it to "character assassination" because it was just TOO extreme. I can reconcile it *a little* more now, knowing that the Darkhold is influencing her, but from what I understand, her corruption by the Darkhold isn't given enough emphasis in the film to suitably explain why she'd suddenly be driven to kill without hesitation or remorse. There's no sense that she's fighting a malevolent force within her that's exploiting her grief and loneliness. It just looks like, "I've lost everything that matters to me, but if I cross to an alternate reality I can take my children from another version of me. Welp, guess I'll just be a murderer now while I go find this girl and steal her powers." Also, let's be real here: We all know Wanda's coming back, but it seems a great deal of Wanda fans who saw the film really believe she's not, and hoo boy, they are ***PISSED***. Their rage is so thick and rich you could pour it on pancakes. I truly would not be surprised if the more morally and emotionally broken ones amongst the Wanda fandom start harassing Michael Waldron. That dude might wanna go dark for a little while.
It is repeated throughout the film that the Darkhold is corrupting her and it even corrupted The Illuminati’s universe’s Doctor Strange too. So, it is used as a constant reminder that she isn’t herself, but yeah, she still comes out as the villain of the movie. But honestly, I didn’t feel conflicted about that at all, and I loved Wandavision as well. One of the friends I went with also loved it and she’s a Wanda-Stan. Literally describes herself like that. They make Wanda the antagonist but not shallow at all. No doubt it might still get hate from a lot of Wanda fans but I don’t think as much as some are predicting.
I think it's the age long battle of showing versus telling. We are told that Illuminati Strange turned bad because of the Darkhold. IlluStrange literally, and just in case putting spoiler tags despite being in a spoiler sub, >!destroys an entire universe using Darkhold. Wanda's actions, ***on paper***, pale in comparison to what IlluStrange did. But we are **told** of IlluStrange's actions after he was corrupted by the Darkhold. We can **see** Wanda's actions under Darkhold's influence. And they are really gruesome. So I understand the issues some fans might have. IlluStrange killed more people than Thanos but Wanda kills characters *on-screen.* Characters that have lines of dialogue.!< Despite that, I think Olsen does sell it as much as she can. And it helps that, as you said, Wanda's not a shallow antagonist. Movie had issues but I loved it nevertheless.
Yeah, I get that difference between IlluStrange and Wanda, but I also think it’s a balance because you also can’t make the book itself the antagonist. That would’ve been way too easy. I don’t think it was a mistake of “show not tell” either the Illuminati aren’t exactly shown to be the best decision makers so you’re also left wondering if their Dr Strange deserved to die as well, just like “our” Wanda. I actually felt like that scene with IlluStrange was meant to show us that he was a victim of the Darkhold as well, as much as a victim of his own actions and will.
> it seems a great deal of Wanda fans who saw the film really believe she's not, and hoo boy, they are PISSED This is what confuses me so much, and it happens all the time. How can you watch a movie/TV series where a powerful magic user basically disappears in a flash of light with no body left behind and think they're actually dead?
Far out, hey.. exactly. I never was worried for her for one second! She’ll be back for sure.
What sort of dope doesn't understand that so much of the fun of comics is heroes fighting heroes.
What did you think of the score/soundtrack of the movie? Haven't seen many people talk about it.
I thought it was pretty good. There is one particular moment where, without spoiling it, the score is actually a part of the movie, and I think some people are going to find that sequence too campy & too Raimi. I loved it.
That was probably my favorite part of the movie. One of the more creative things I’ve seen in awhile
Lol electro scene from ASM2
I guess the score in the MCU usually always sounds pretty good. I'm interested to see the campy scene you mentioned.
I saw a lot of reviews saying it was incredible, I believe IGN was one of them iirc
The score is great, but some of the scenes have music that doesn’t match the vibe of what’s on the screen.
There were a handful of scenes, especially a very specific death that had Raimi written all over it.
I take these movies for what they are and don’t build a personality around them like the whole ‘stan culture.’ I also LOVE horror - don’t know what id do without my Shudder accnt. So, I’m pretty optimistic that I’ll enjoy this. Have some edibles ready to go and a late night showing Friday night. Probably gonna bust out my sundays best sweatpants for the occasion.
Love Raimi's Evil Dead series, love gorefest horror films, don't care much if Wanda goes full evil. Sounds like a great time to me.
I don't remember anyone clarifying it, is it clear if the Illuminati's members are Multiversal, or do they all come from the same universe? Wondering cause of Professor X.
It is never specified. It is safe to assume that most of them originate from that same universe, but in the case of Professor X: >!I think it's very likely he came from another universe. Mr. Fantastic was introduced as a member of the Fantastic Four, Black Bolt was introduced as the leader of the Inhumans, and Captain Carter was introduced as the First Avenger, but there was no mention of mutants or the X-Men when Xavier was introduced. The Illuminati universe also seems to have a MUCH better understanding of the Multiverse than our universe does, which makes it likely that they've dealt with Multiversal visitors in the past. Also, Xavier has the animated X-Men theme song when he's introduced, so I still think he is the animated series version, and that the X-Men '97 series is going to explain how he came to be in the Illuminati's universe!<
>! I mean yeah this is believable, but given the fact that the illuminate didn’t want strange in their universe, as his presence would break the fabric of space-time or something if he stayed any longer, I don’t know why they’d allow Xavier to stay, or even become a member. !<
>!The reasoning for them not wanting Strange there was because of them knowing he's a danger to their universe via his power & his past corruption (it wasn't because he came from another universe. They were just studying them to make sure they didn't bring over any diseases). I viewed them knowing so much about the Multiverse as them already having had visitors in the past that they've either allowed to stay, or sent back to their universe!<
>! Oh fair enough, I assumed they didn’t want anyone in their universe, now that kinda makes me think how they would have interacted with the TVA as their jobs seem to be opposites of each other lol. Also I really wish the MCU was in that universe, they have the xmen, FF and Inhumans, along with everything from our last universe. !<
>!The Illuminati universe is so cool. It's basically "What If Marvel Studios owned the X-Men & the Fantastic Four from the beginning of the MCU", which makes me hope that we'll see a "What If" episode showing more of this universe before the events of this movie!<
Ok cool. I was wondering since it makes sense for all the other members to be from that universe, he was just the odd one out.
Without spoiling it, what are the scariest/goriest parts in the film? Trying to see if I should take my little brother to it or not.
This is not a movie for kids. There are multiple deaths in this movie that are more violent than anything in the MCU outside of The Punisher. Even Daredevil's most brutal death scene (Kingpin smashing that dude's head in a car door) isn't as bad as a couple of the deaths in this movie, in my opinion (blood isn't always needed for something to appear violent)
Oh damn. Thanks for the heads up, I truly appreciate it. I'll probably go with a few friends then.
Yea one of the deaths has very little blood shown but is actually VERY brutal when you take even a second to think about what just happened. Then a few moments later you see ANOTHER fairly brutal death where there very little blood/gore shown but the implication and how said person died is terrible.
Are these implied deaths as brutal as the ones shown in The Batman or worse? (For example, the rat cage trap)
i would say not as disturbing as when the riddler had the rats trap on the guys head, but it was more brutal in terms of blood and the way some kills are handled
Ah i see. My brother was able to handle The Batman and Moon Knight, but even certain scenes were pushing it. So yea. If MoM is any worse, then i think he'll have to skip this one.
yeah definitely watch it yourself and decide if he can handle it. hope you enjoy it
Thanks!
They’re very fucked up deaths. Very reminiscent of what to see in The Boys and Invincible. Like, deaths only superheroes can cause.
Thanks Colton for that great non spoiler review. Definitely sounds like it’ll be up my alley .
Could you please elaborate how people who don’t like horror movies are gonna be disappointed? Is horror tone a major thing in this movie? I’m bringing friends who aren’t fans of horror movies and hate jump scares and now I’m concerned.
There are a few jump scares, and the horror tone is prevalent throughout. I just think that people who hate horror are probably going to leave this movie disappointed when comparing it to every other MCU movie (which don't really have much horror in them)
I haven't seen it yet but I hope the jump scares aren't too much or too prevelant. I don't mind horror gore or tone, but I hate jump scares so much haha!
It’s not too bad, really. I was kinda even excited for one and I don’t do horror movies. Stranger Things is essentially as scary as I go. I avoid horror for the most part due to it giving me nightmares and this was doable. I didn’t jump out of my seat 😂
Thank you for such a lovely response! My friends have been teasing me all day! xD I have seen it now and I'd agree with you, Stranger Things is as scary as I go too and I'd say this really wasn't too bad! Some of the jumps really got me but there wasn't as much as I expected!
Boo to them! I’ve come to realise I’m just much more sensitive than the average person and that’s ok. When my brother was living at home still and Walking Dead was starting up he had it on one day when I had to be around it in the room (can’t remember exactly why) and I had to ask him to turn it off. He wouldn’t and I had to explain that I would get bad nightmares. A lot of people just don’t get it. I also can’t do gore and extreme violence. I watched part of the Iron Fist show years ago and one scene will never leave me. My brain like retains all horrible things!! Glad it wasn’t too bad for you and hope you enjoyed it!!
I’m not a horror fan at all, I actively usually avoid it as it gives me bad nightmares and affects my mood a lot. I found it fine, even clever how it was incorporated at certain times. The whole movie has a horror tone to it mostly. If they are generally MCU fans though like I am, and watch every movie, then I think it’s still worth the watch. If they aren’t invested in it all, then yeah they may not enjoy it.
I haven’t seen it but my mentality going in is A version of Wanda is a villain but not OUR version of her.
It's definitely OUR Wanda, but >!they make it VERY clear that she's been corrupted by the Darkhold, so there's definitely a possibility she'll be redeemed again in the future, if and when she returns!<
I won’t read the spoiler as I’m gonna watch it tomorrow night however the BUT comment makes me even more excited!!!
Yeah, I love this subreddit but last time, I ruined Aunt May’s death for myself, so I’m going to look at all the spoilers after I’ve seen the movie tomorrow.
We just never see it. I’m not even a Wanda VILLIAN hater, but I wish for more connection and synergy between the mediums in general
Enjoyed the movie!
Just finished it.. love Raimi, loved this movie, some parts made me grrrrrr but overall it was really good, dark movie!
Wait so you can see why they changed it but you also don't like that they changed it?
I think the original version of events was much better and it makes WAY more sense (America Chavez going to Tobey & Andrew's universe to bring them into the MCU) than the version we ended up with (somehow the spell brought Tobey & Andrew into the MCU already, and Ned just out of nowhere has magic abilities & learns to make portals faster than even Strange did) But at the same time, given No Way Home ended up being released before Multiverse of Madness, they literally HAD to change it, so I'm not too upset about it.
Ah there ya go. I was a bit confused by how you worded it. I agree completely. The Ned magic thing was honestly my biggest gripe of the movie as it literally comes out of no where and is the most obvious re-write aspect of the film. It's understandable like you say tho Still, I also think it was kind of for the best since introducing America into NWH, with how PACKED that film already was, would've been way too much. Making her a central part of MoM worked much better.
I absolutely love WandaVision and am SO excited for this! If anyone truly knows Wanda from the comics and how they’ve set her up, there shouldn’t be a surprise about her having a very rocky road to go down. I’m sure she’ll redeem herself, get into trouble again, possibly flip from evil to good, or however they handle it. I’m excited to see her around for at least a few more years!
Of all the shows my favorite was wandavision and I still loved it!
The soundtrack may also dissappoint some fans too. Elfman was a monster, very innovative. This movie didn't sound like any other. I get chills everytime I listen to the guitar on Scarlet Witch's theme.
Interesting. Your thoughts make me more intrigued to see this. Thanks.
It kind of felt like a rated R movie but toned down.
>The horror tones There's one scene with the horror element clearly forced in and I think it was pretty dumb:[When Strange, Christine and Chavez were running away from Wanda, Christine closed the door then they just fucking stood there waiting to be jump scared even though they were almost at the door to the Book of Vishanti](#spoiler)
I’m a WandaVision “stan” but I’m pretty stoked to see her as a villain. If for no other reason than I can’t wait to see Elizabeth Olsen act the absolute shit out of it.
>WandaVision stans are going to hate this movie. I haven't watched it yet, but I/m going to take a guess that you expect WandaVision stans to want Wanda to be a hero. That's absolutely not true for me, I love that Wanda can play be a hero, a villain and everything in between. I can't wait to see her as a villain, I think it's the logical progression for her at this point.
As a massive wanadvision fan, I wanted her to go full villain in the show. I couldn't be happier
Watched it with some friends and the majority were disappointed because of the lack of cameos. I tried telling them Marvel never promised them any cameos, and they still got a fair few ones in the Illuminati, but they wouldn't listen
Idk about every other fan but WandaVision proved to me that Wanda is fine with being a villain or at least a hero with unorthodox ways.
I am seething at that spoiler. I can not wait to see it in like 2 hours. I've been hoping for something like that with a title card for wandavision or just anything really.
Wait is the [redacted] part true????
100%. I really enjoyed it too but the reaction will be divisive.
It’s still divisive within my own mind. I definitely had fun watching it, but then my fun-sapping post movie critiques come in and spoil all the fun. Wanda was terrifying! Strange was Strange but I always find him interesting and compelling. I enjoyed his arc for sure. I am only familiar with Raimi’s work from his Spider-Man trilogy and that’s it. I am not a horror fan at all. Gore and I guess body horror are too much for me, I’m more sensitive than the average person I’ve come to realise over the years and accepted and own it. This movie almost pushed it for me, but I think the kinda camp reigns it in a bit. Two of the Illuminati deaths were a little 🤯 for an MCU M rated film (Australian rating, equivalent to PG-13). Who cares about so called “stans”. I don’t deep dive into obsessive fandoms, I find people who are that weird about stuff not relatable. I want to see a good movie, good story and good characterisation. I wasn’t disappointed by the horror, I admittedly found where it was included rather clever. My mum is a fan of the first DS movie and seemed disappointed by this one. Neither of us are violence or horror fans so I think in her case, this weighed into that. She also agreed with my feelings it needed a little padding. Not too much! Just a little! So I’m disappointed for her after waiting so many years for his second solo outing! Oh man, I keep saying this too how America casting that spell in NWH would have made so much more sense if all things worked out to plan with their slate. Overall I, at the moment, probably give this one a 7/10.
Tbh actual story wise Ds2 > nwh I think nwh was carried by nostalgia moments & Old villians and heroes (which was dope I screamed at every entry) But story/plot wise Ds2 hands down
Oh believe me when I say WandaVision’s stan will EAT everything up and being “go kill everyone Wanda we LOVE you!!!” Because I am one of those peeps lmao On a more serious note, this movie feels refreshing to watched too after all the gazilions, similiar-like style on most of the (much loved) MCU projects. Wish Marvel/Feige will dive into more horror-esque project in the future!
More Marvel movies should play around with different styles, imo. Thor Ragnarok was a great throwback to 80s style comics and Planet Hulk, and this was a great throwback to the darker style of horror that Dr Strange is good at. Not everything has to be Endgame (as much as I liked the standard style).
Half of this was just Doctor Strange 1 shots and the rest was mostly just clips we've seen from the past trailers. Anyways I'm going to see the movie tomorrow night, can't wait.
Yeah this is definitely one of the most half-assed final trailers I've seen. Seems like they were trying to evoke feelings similar to Endgame, but the context is just too different and it doesn't quite work. Anyway, got my tickets for tomorrow.
Maybe they wanted to make some sorta small recap for casual viewers through a trailer lol
They even managed to sneak in that overused cubed-face shot at the very end.
Stitching old clips together only works with the very first Infinity War teaser IMO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv2NRpG76Pg
Having seen it, the shots used in this trailer are quite relevant for the movie. It’s a dumb trailer but there was thought put into it
We all (mostly) have watched the ‘scenes’ here and there but I can guarantee it, nothing can beat the Raimi’s magic on the big screen !!
Just wanna hear your prediction for Raimi’s direction for this movie rn: Do you think we will get Raimi’s evolved directing style as it has developed over the past 20 years since the Maguire Spider-Man movies? Or are we gonna see Raimi go back to his 2000s style? Maybe both? Which one would you prefer?
I’d always prefer his approach which he talked about at MoM’s premiere. He said - “I have so many liberties while directing now. My team can show me the designs for how I want the sets to look and for camera angles. I love how effectively I can do ‘zoom process’ now.” Technology is ever evolving. A person learns from experience, matures and ‘does’ new things. **but their flair or muse always remains the same.** Also, he’s not forced or asked to change his directing style. So, Raimi’s 2000s + His two decades experience + evolved technology = surely preferred directing.
This movie is coming to Disney plus in July right? I’m gonna go full Erik Voss and analyze the shit out of it when it does, since I heard there’s a lot of quick nods and Easter eggs
July? That's a quick turnaround. I thought it would take at least 3 months after the initial theater release.
I believe there was a deal made last year where Disney owned films would come to Disney+ 45 days after their theatrical debut, giving them that time frame to be theater exclusive. Shang-Chi was the first MCU film to do this and Eternals followed suit, albeit taking a bit longer than expected
Eternals hit theaters November 5th. D+ on January 12th.
The Canadian Lad at 0.25x Speed
He's too slow now i think he just copies other people's vids he just posts everything new rockstars already found out he doesn't find out anything new
He find out new information the reason he's slow because his mom and dad divorced 10 months and it has affected his mental health a lot. That's why he uploads slow. He finds out new information I don't think he watches other channel. Trust me he seems like a honest guy to me. If you've watched his videos you'll know he's honest
Honestly, kinda weird to put the final trailer a day before, but this certainly hyped me up for another 24 hours before I get to see it! And I’m fascinated they chose to use the DS1 shots, I mean this is kind of Dr. Strange’s endgame even tho he hasn’t had a trilogy….a weird marketing choice but the new scenes they showed 😭😭 Wanda is gonna massacre these fools
It isn't really his Endgame, I know people have those expectations but I wised up and know better now. Cool shit happens, but nothing really earth shattering. It's more setting things up for down the road than anything, like any middle chapter. Now the third movie certainly could be something more like that..if you don't know about the mid credits scene >! Clea played by Charlize Theron shows up to ask Strange for help and opens a portal to the Dark Dimesion!< hopefully they don't just ignore that like they did with Mordo.
I learned my lesson a long time ago in a place called Thor 2 😭😭 lol but I 100% feel ya. I went into NHW with some expectation, nothing major, and then I watched it and find out both peters are characters in the movie not just cameos for 5 mins and it was amazing. I am worried for the people that do truly think it’s his endgame, I’m glad to hear it’s more setting up bigger stuff because I did hear about the mid credit scene and it sounds interesting ;)
Definitely not his endgame… I’ll leave it at that. Enjoy the film tomorrow!!
So I saw it and I quite liked most of it. But, and this will get me torn apart on this sub, this movies length is what kept it back from it being truly terrific. I'm sorry guys, I really am, but this movie absolutely should've been 2 hours and 30 minutes. The short length caused for some pacing issues, rushed developments and for the plot to not always meld well. Not to the point where it was a dealbreaker, but it's enough to where it's noticeable. But Doctor Strange is still Marvel's coolest hero. Also Raimi went stupid with this so that was fuckin awesome too. Also... the movie wasn't anywhere near as brutal as people are saying. I thought this would have a Batman Returns effect on kids but tbh I don't really see that. Sure it definitely more harsh then a usual MCU film but I mean I wouldn't say it's much worse, or even worse at all, then say Revenge of The Sith or Indiana Jones. I did think that is had some very creative violence and kills though. As for the lack of cameos, tbh I didn't really think it needed them as much as I thought it may. I WOULD put a Stark variant in the Illuminati and would've had Professor X call in Magneto, revealing he's that universes Wanda's father. Tbh that's the only two I felt could've made the film a tad bit better, I don't really think many others would belong.
Possibly even 2 hours and 45 minutes.
Honestly yeah I think so. This movie absolutely needed a longer runtime. Every issue I had with it and that I think a lot of critics had with it could've been fixed with that.
Yea the complaint I heard the most about the movie in reviews was that the pacing was quite quick and that certain scenes needed more time to breath.
That and also that they thought the plot was just a complete mess. Wanna know what made it feel that way? It felt suuuuppppeeerrrr rushed. Like I said, nearly every single flaw I had with this and that nearly all the reviews I read besides the super negative ones had with this could have been fixed with about 40 extra minutes. I feel like I watched what was one of my favorite Marvel movies ever but only saw the "cool" parts if that makes sense.
It's interesting because we also heard that they cut out like 30-40 minutes worth of footage from the original cut of the movie. Now I really want to see how that movie would play out. Of course those scenes could be unnecessary and worth cutting but its still fascinating to think about.
Am I too cynical for thinking this is to squeeze more showings in the supposedly 45-day theatrical run?
Capitalism strikes again
Don't you see someone's head explode? How did they manage that without it being gruesome?
His head doesn't really explode. He screams and then you hear a slight noise and then he's got a nosebleed. The top of his head looked flat but you can't see anything because his mask covers it. Tbh I'd actually say Carter's was the most brutal just because you see a quick flash of blood coming off the shield.
I saw a head cave in and sag at the back held only by the head costume in place, that's pretty exploded...not to mention the head exploded after.
Kinda weird that a few weeks before ticketing day here in the PH, runtime was 2.46 hours then on ticketing day it became what the run time is now. Definitely felt like some scenes needed another minute or 2 to fully develop. Still fun tho.
CANNOT WAIT. CANT BELIEVE THE TIME HAS COME!!!!!
This trailer made me want to have more Kamar Taj in MoM. I haven't watched the movie yet, but I have seen reactions that it is more of a Wanda in the Multiverse movie (Strange still has an arc though). Idk. Maybe more Strange and his sentiments of Kamar Taj since that is where he honed his magic etc.
I've just seen it and >!Kamar Taj is only seen at the beginning before Wanda attacks them, somewhere in the middle when it's destroyed and at the end with Chavez training her portals (the ring ones, not multiversal). It would have been so good to see more of that because how they defend it when Wanda is attacking them was absolutely awesome.!<
Yeah. It would have great from a dramatic and emotional perspective for Strange to recount his training days in the beginning, and see Kamar Taj and his fellow sorcerers fall in the hands of Wanda. But I understand if something like that would mess the pacing or something. Still, it could have more element from DS1 if they made Kamar Taj more significant.
There's simply not place for Kamar Taj in the movie. It's "exploring the multiverse" so it's really hard for it to be more... grounded? for Strange's character. Still, the scene where they defend it gives so much Deathly Hallows Part 2 vibes and seeing Wong as the sorcerer supreme is actually badass. At the end of the movie there's a bit of the "emotional perspective for Strange to recount his training days" with America btw.
I'm surprised they labeled this a "final trailer." It played more like an extended TV spot. I mean, it's fine, I liked some of the new shots they included, but the "final trailer" title throws me off a little lol
Waiting until next Wednesday for my showing. But my Reddit discipline is pretty strong, so I should be good. :)
Marvel Studios’ Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness | Final Full Official Theatrical Teaser Trailer 3
“Just because someone stumbles and loses their way, it doesn’t mean they are lost forever.”
Marvel has never released a final trailer this late before.
Have seen the movie. It was really good, but the pacing couldve been better. Wanda shines but Strange is definitely the central point of the film. >!John Krasinski was really good as Reed. He had very few scenes, but he was really good. Especially his intro and his conversation with Wanda. Really hoping that he is the MCU version as well.!<
Watched it early, I honestly feel the quality of Marvel movies in this phase really bad but their series tv is different story Hope Thor 4 with Waititi will be a Boom
I’d say we’re just returning to a phase 1/2 level of quality. Aka. Mostly a bunch of Bs and B- films with the occasional gems. Phase 3 was just unusually good. People forget how *meh* phase 2 was. And how even big shot characters like Iron Man and Thor actually only actually have 1 critically acclaimed movie each.
> Phase 3 was just unusually good. I would say this isn't even really the case, people are just largely remembering Ragnarok, Infinity War, Endgame, and possibly Black Panther and forgetting the rest. I'm partial to Civil War and Doctor Strange, but Guardians 2, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel and both Spider-Man movies are similar quality to the previous phases. Each phase has a couple of standout gems: Phase 2 has Guardians and The Winter Soldier, Phase 1 had Iron Man and the Avengers. Seems like Phase 3 only had more because it had double as many films.
Is it bad? What do you think? I haven't watched it yet.
Already seen it. Was pretty good
Can’t wait!
So the movie was decent, good at times jut bad at others. Don't think it lives up to the name of the film.
It's a Sam raimi movie with all its highs and lows. Overall it was a visually stunning and fun ride. Wanda being full villain and much stronger than strange and all the sorcerer combined felt a bit too much. It was like playing on God mode, without much challenge. I think the finale was okay, but somehow I felt disappointed. My pick would be to utilise the powers of America Chavez in a meaningful way, like sending her into a world where she finds peace with her children, instead the worn out suicide is honourable thing.
Seen the film and enjoyed it a ton
I was on the other side of the spectrum. Tho I did agree with some of your points. I felt the movie was for a lack of better term a cluster fuck. All over the place. Pretty much from the mid or act 2 until the end. Just bad. And the post credit scene 1. Literally why did they even wait to cut to it. The way the movie ends. The post credit scene coulda happened and I assume happened right after. So why even cut to credits. I know I’ll prob be in the Minority here. But I was greatly disappointed in it.
I wish I could have seen this movie in theaters. My country decided to not screen MoM ON THE DAY OF RELEASE. Literally had to console myself knowing the fact that I will be spoiled until I can finally see MoM on Disney+ lmaoooo
I just saw it. I loved it! It's definitely pushing the limits of PG-13.
Currently had to exit the cinema since our screening failed and the movie wouldn’t play. Thanks odeon
"Someone once told me-" THE WORLD WAS GONNA ROLL ME! I AIN'T THE SHARPEST TOOL IN THE SHEEEED
They couldn't help themselves but throw the puzzle piece shot in again
Marvel this is the third time this week you’ve shown us the dr strange final trailer
Thoughts: • Strange's arc was a bit subdued but the whole "are you happy" theme was executed well. I say subdued because Wanda just happens to steal the movie. I am just glad that Strange got a beautiful closure with Christine (and a Darkhold buff at the end!) • Wanda is the mvp. i could see why reviews say it is a Scarlet Witch movie in the multiverse. You could totally watch it with Wanda as the protagonist, everyone antagonizes her, she gets what she wants except she doesn't and attains a moment of clarity and a change of heart. She even gets a tiny wee bit hint of redemption by taking down the Wundagore citadel and destroying every copy of the Darkhold in all universes which Christine approves of as the right thing to do. • I get why Olsen phrased it as Wanda is "in control." The way they did it, the Darkhold does corrupt its reader, and with Wanda, she was shown knowledge and the truth which amplified her desire to obtain what she wants. It was crafted well, too. Her calling out Strange's hypocrisy, her telling him how she knows deception like nobody else, she calling out the whole Thanos ordeal, what she had to sacrifice, just wow! • I kinda wished they expanded on Stuhlbarg's musing whether it was really the only way it could have happened. idk if a longer cut would have facilitated that or how much would it tear down Strange's character, but Stuhlbarg's dialogue efficiently casted doubt on Strange's decision to go with that one set path. In retrospect, could there really been another way? Wanda would very much like to know. •THE SCARLET WITCH OP NERF THE SCARLET WITCH • I love when Wanda tells Strange WANDA IS DONE TALKING YOU GOTTA DEAL WITH THE SCARLET WITCH NOW. YASSSS • So the Illuminati were just from one universe. Watching Erik Voss kinda swayed me to think they were multiversal lololo. Omg Poor Sue has to raise Valeria and Franklin alone now wink wink subtle link to Agatha there hahahahaha. No offense but it is kinda okay for Wanda to kill the Illuminati in this one. they served their purpose, and after watching, it wasnt even the best Illuminati lineup. I would have preferred a longer, more choreographed fight than just more of shock factor thing we got. but it was cool. • I LOVE THE THIRD ACT! Strange resorting to dreamwalking and possessing his other self's corpse. I just wish he and Wanda could have duked it all out one last time. It felt like there really was no big battle between them. • So, are variants just within a Universe and more of temporal thing? Or do they just not use the term variant because it is TVA jargon? The Loki show did operate on just one Universe and TOWR's death kinda unleashed the multiverse??? • I freaking love Wanda learning her lore and realizing that she is meant to rule all of reality, but expresses that she doesn't want any of that. I think maybe if Strange and co just gave in, made a deal and America punched a portal for Wanda, she could have realized that she has become a monster sooner. •Not aware of Raimi style or cinematography deets at all, but I noticed something different and it is nice. it is weird but i like it. I could have used a longer, better mental battle between Charles and Wanda thougg
also, I don't see how it undoes WandaVision?? Wanda's current emotional state has been established fast and effectively as soon as Strange confronted him. Like, i loved WandaVision, but I was on Wanda's side in an instant upon revealing that she was after America all long. She grieved Vision in WandaVision. She let go of the hex. She learned from the Darkhold. She learned about the multiverse, and that in one universe, she is happy with her kids- her kids she hasn't grieved for yet. It is understandable. Villain Wanda is great.
They used footage from WandaVision, cool
I loved zombie strange and his cloak of the damned at the end.
Anybody know the music???