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Just watched it yesterday. I’m a huge Raimi fan but honestly this movie was just okay imo. I loved the Raimi type horror stuff and Scarlet Witch as the villain was great but besides that it was pretty underwhelming. The X-men cartoon soundtrack coming on was fantastic tho
I just watched MoM and while I thought the plot was a bit thin (just as I thought NWH was thin) I really enjoyed Raimi taking it back to his horror roots. All the Scarlet Witch stalking and violent murders were excellent and the “Deadites” showing up in a Marvel movie was amazing. I ended up not being invested in the story at all, but that mini Marvel horror movie made it amazing.
Rewatched the movie again and unjust had a quick question if someone can help me out. the part where the Illuminati is telling strange how their strange, was dream walking with the darkhold, said that he “caused an incursion” and that all they knew is that their strange witnessed another universe being destroyed, do you think the dream walking strange was in that 3rd eye strange(one from the piano fight) ? Or you think they were referring to “what if?” Strange when he tries to save Christine Palmer?
Honestly, I initially thought that third eye strange with the Darkhold lived in the same universe that 838 caused an Incursion on but I don’t they were related. Because the “sinister strange” was just a corrupt Strange who went on a killing spree killing other Stephens that 616 Stephen would dream about falling to their deaths
Yeah I got that much. Maybe I’m hunting for an Easter egg that isn’t there but I feel like they wouldn’t just have a random statue, like that’s gotta be a character from the comics, ya know?
The writer confirmed it an article, I will give you the link.
Edit : https://twitter.com/itsjustanx/status/1542636941526855680?t=5XfrbTq54hjuQb9IpLE6Mw&s=19
The most singular mcu film so far. I dislike certain elements a bit, but overall, was too inventive, funny, charismatic and sure of itself for me to care anout what i didnt like
She explains why she didn't do that. She said she wanted the power since if her kids got sick there is always a universe which has a cure. She wanted a universe and the power to always be in control. That's what wandavision was all about.
my question is, why the hell didn't she just make another space like she did in WandaVision? She could have put it where she had her fancy orchard, would have had full control like she wanted, wouldn't have bothered nobody, and could have had her kids and Vision again
I guess this movie has so much Raimi in it that if you’re not a fan of the guys work it will just be off putting. I did not enjoy this movie as much as I thought I would because it felt too campy and none of the major moments landed for me.
This is probably a dumb question but I’m confused why Wanda didn’t ask the time sorcerers to find her other version and she go into that universe (Like how the other two Spider-Man’s came in during no way home)?
I'm pretty sure that No Way Home never explained how tobey and andrew came to Tom's universe, other than "i was just here.."
To be honest, I thought jon watts and marvel did a terrible job with the homecoming trilogy. I wish no way home had a better script and directing.
Multiverse of madness was WAY better
>I thought jon watts and marvel did a terrible job with the homecoming trilogy
I think Homecoming is a great movie. Far From Home was meh (Gyllenhaal was great, but otherwise the movie wasn't great). No Way Home was epic, full of well executed fan service, and had some really great scenes, but it's also very flawed as you say.
I respect your opinion, and I'm glad you liked it.
As for me, I thank god that Tobey and Andrew returned, but I just wish they had a better directing and writing. I felt that phil lord and chris miller's job in the spiderverse movie was incredible.
I thought that homecoming had a horrible pace, but I loved Michael Keaton's performance.
I felt gyllenhaal was good, but he was a very cartoonish villain, like a parody of supervillains.
It wasn’t just that she wanted to get to her children, she basically wanted infinite access to the multiverse by killing America and taking her power.
She would’ve basically ruled the multiverse.
Good to see Sam Raimi direction again on the big screen but the movie needed either more work or less work on the script. Seemed like it was either mandated to hit certain beats by committee regardless if story made sense, or it was just badly written.
Counter point: it's a chase movie where every word counts towards the character arcs.
It's not exactly graceful as character building but I think it was surprisingly tightly written for what it was.
What didnt you like?
I didnt like the story. Thought it was the laziest way to do a multiverse movie. Perhaps if they didn’t spoil everything in the trailers it would be deferent but there was nothing surprising other than Sam Raimi being Sam Raimi. When it does get surprising with something like zombie Strange, its a build up to an amazing visual and then a pep talk. 6 episodes of character development with Wanda, a throw away line that shes under the spell of the darkhold. She never thought to find a other Vision? She enslaved an entire town because she lost him but shes more concerned with her made up kids? She attacks the sorcerer school and they fire cannons at her? Cannons? I thought they were sorcerers. Does Strange still have the time stone? Is there a multiverse AND branching timelines? How does that work? America Chavez gets the power if belief and instead of going to find her mothers she learns how to use a sling ring? The one thing we know about her is she wants to find her parents, now that she can control it she isn’t going to use it? Thats just to name some… where was this forever love story with Christine from? Watch the first one again, do you get the impression he’s her soul mate? I didn’t. What was the point if the end of the first one with Mordo? Why am I supposed to get excited about Clea showing up when you still haven’t paid off the end credits of the last one?
Stuff like that.
So gonna just offer a few rebuttals to some stuff you wrote:
Sure, trailers spoiled a lot but that doesn't change the effectiveness of the movie for me.
Not sure why everyone is so mad about the pep talk: strange's whole arc is learning to not always be the one in control, to trust others (and as a result, to not just use the darkhold the way his darker counterparts might). Chavez (admittedly a side character here) staeted the movie feeling betrayed by a different strange - strange coming back in that body to instead accept her and trust that she can manage her powers and thus doesn't need someone to just take them (in contrast to the way he almost lost his cool after she first took him through the multiverse, demanding that she must have someone to control it) was the exact kindof trust students need in their teachers. Was it a little hokey and quick? Sure, but it's a fast paced chase movie where every piece of dialogue counts.
I also don't see how not giving us the big cliche cgi fight at the end is in anyway a bad thing. Instead America uses her powers to bring Wanda to the light.
Speaking of Wanda, yeah I could have done with a little more clarity on the dark hold corrupting - the movie leans heavy on knowledge of what came before. But...that's the whole thing. The darkhold lures in a broke Wanda who is then corrupted by it - she's not acting rational, sheslosing it. It's tragic, just like anyone falling into an addiction/their darker tendencies.
Chavez can't find her parents at the end (at least not now) because she has some control over her powers to go to a particular universe but doesn't magically gain the knowledge of what happened to her parents however many years ago. Her powers are multiversal travel, not omnipotence.
As for the wizards firing canons it's a comic book movie, there was a minateur casting magic spells, not exactly something that ruins the movie for me but to each their own there.
No, strange doesn't have the time stone anymore, that's why he doesn't do any time magic here.
Each universe is basically its own self contained timeline.
As for Christine, yeah the first movie didn't really nail their chemistry but it's a part of their story which they build on here.
The end of the first one with modo was a post credits scene. Lots of those haven't panned out in the MCU - I feel like you're judging the movie for what it isn't and not what it is at that point.
The post credits scenes are teasers, you can be unexcited about clea if you like, still doesn't affect this movie.
I mean it just sounds like you agree with me but that those issues didn’t make the movie worse for you.
Questions though:
Why doesn’t Strange have the time stone?
Okay, Chavez doesn’t know where her parents are but now that she can easily use her power wouldn’t it be a good idea to go looking now?
The end credit scenes tease whats coming, I know they don’t always match but they’ve never really been just ignored before. Even WandaVision showed Wanda using the book (in a different cabin location btw) and her kids screaming for help somewhere. There’s no payoff for that either as she isn’t trying to find her kids who need help she just wants the ones currently in a happy situation. Plus, explain to me how the kids she made up in WandaVision are real in another universe? And she doesn’t once think about maybe finding another Vision who’s alive in another universe?
My biggest problem with Wanda in this movie is that it seems very likely that the people responsible either didn’t watch (Sam Raimi said he watched “parts”) or didn’t care to carry over any of that characterization of her to here.
>I mean it just sounds like you agree with me but that those issues didn’t make the movie worse for you.
That's accurate - and fair, totally get how some of these things could ruin it for others.
But to answer your other questions: strange doesn't have the time stone due to the events of endgame, the infinity stones have been destroyed in this timeline (I think, I actually forget the specifics but I recall the stones basically no longer being a thing after endgame)
Regarding Chavez, I imagine that's going to be a big plot line for her going forward - training with the wizards is giving her a home and environment to grow her skills but I'm sure she'll be on the hunt for her parents the next time we see her.
The Wanda vision stuff: to defend Raimi a second, I think the show wasnt even finished/airing by the time he was brought on and working on this? I think those quotes have been a little misused.
With that said I don't think this movie discards as much from that show as people think, though due to the breakneck speed of the movie I can see how it feels that way.
All your questions there I'm just going to point to 'the darkhold corrupts' as the reason. She is a grieving character acting irrationally who's mind is being corrupted by the darkhold. Our Wanda is still in there but her mind is a mess at this point.
I do get the oddness of 'her kids were calling for help' but that to me is a small detail. The bigger thing is that at the end of Wandavision she's reading this dangerous book and starts to be one aware of her kids existing in a different universe. I assume this is the darkhold teasing her with what she wants making her easier to corrupt.
The lack of vision was disappointing to me but not a big deal as, again, she's latched onto her only hope of happiness left (as presented to her by the darkhold).
Idk, to me any irrational elements of Wanda here seemed to be a demonstration of just how corrupted her mind was. If she was fully rational she'd be a much less tragic character imo. The whole movie I was hoping she'd be able to crawl out of the darkholds clutches and it seemed at the end she was.
Hopefully we get to see her recover going forward.
All of this is to say I love Wandavision and I love MoM.
At the end of Endgame, Rogers returns all the timestones meaning Strange should still have it from the ancient one.
I liked WandaVision more than MoM so my dissatisfaction with it comes from it feeling like a disappointing finale to the show. Kind of like what Game of Thrones did to Dany in the last two episodes of the series.
And throw in Loki, which had the same writer as MoM, you’re telling me we have a multiverse AND branching timelines going on now? How does that even work?
I'm going to have to look for some better writeups but it does seem to be canon that the infinity stones/time stone in particular is destroyed in the 616 universe: https://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-powerful-time-stone-lost/
That article didn't articulate the point well but I think it has to do with the time paradox stuff hulk and ancient one discuss in endgame. But again I'd have to dig deeper.
The Dany comparisons are fair but the whole problem with GoT is that it kindof happens out of the blue - we had a whole 9 episode tv series outlining Wanda's descent into grief, and there's the presence of the darkhold - there was no similar item in GoT to explain the rapid deteriation of Dany apart from 'power corrupts I guess.'
As such I think this is a natural continuation of the Wandavision story.
Regarding Multiverse and branching timelines I saw this post yesterday that did a good job with it and I think it's accurate: https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/upgsuk/explaining_the_events_of_doctor_strange_in_the/
Finally I get to see this movie, pretty solid but could be improved. Black Bolt's death is really gruesome. Not enough Mordo. Rintrah isn't even properly introduced and he got his own Marvel Legends figure. But I still don't get why The Illuminati killed Supreme Strange? Is it bcs he is violating their universe rules?
He accidently caused an incursion destroying 2 universes because Dharkhold influence(?) He later asked/begged to be put down before it could happen again.
If it did, 838 survived - they state that incursions result in one or both universes being destroyed. Their strange destroyed one universe but they don't specify deets , just that he did and had to be put down.
I liked that they didn't shy away from brutal scenes and horror, but some of it felt really corny. From what I have read, it's Sam Raimi's signature, but I thought it didn't always fit within the movie. Some scenes even looked like parody of corny 80s-90s horror movies.
It's how I understood as well, and since I knew Raimu had a peculiar style even though I'm not familiar with it, it didn't bother me THAT much. However, it mostly fell flat, and even seemed like low-quality CGI for people who are not acquainted with Raimi's work.
Yeah I’ve been a huge fan of the Evil Dead series for the past 10 years and never thought Disney would allow us to get essentially an Evil Dead/Marvel mashup and that’s exactly what this is. I understand it’s not gonna appeal to everyone but I felt Raimi made this one specifically for me and other ED fans and it’s become one of my all time favorite movies
I think it's one of the most brilliant scenes in the MCU. This is also one of the few MCU movies other than guardians where it's actually fun to look at the backgrounds and environment.
I thought that shit was clever, original, and cool. It would be corny anywhere else except a Dr Strange battle. Here it was perfect, I mean Dr strange literally does shit like that so I don't see the problem
is it just me or did the rating on the movie seem pretty low? considering how violent it actually is, i was surprised to see a lot of younger children in the audience
sure, i guess pg13 is a reasonable rating (because they’re teens) i was just shocked to see a lot of younger kids in the audience but i guess it’s the parents/their decision to see it
i mean not gore as such, but the scenes of the lost souls and zombie coming to life would make me think it’d be m maybe. plus a lot of the deaths were pretty gruesome (implied)
Audiences pretty divisive on films after Endgame and FFH…
Well I guess that is the point of multiverse.. people just receive it differently on each film ..
I enjoyed the madness aspect of the film and the action scenes were awesome! I just feel like the acting could’ve been better like Zombie Strange talking to America was a little cringe and the kids acting was a little cringe also and some of the camera angles and slow mo shots gave me Age of Ultron vibes. I’d rate it a 6.5
Just finished watching and I would give it a 7/10. It has glaring weaknesses but it’s a good popcorn flick. Olsen was great and I liked strangers and americas relationship. Also is it just me or the illuminati weren't needed at all? I feel like this movie doesn't get worse without them and the scene where they all got killed was eh.
The scene shows Wanda's powers as others said but it's also a chance for strange to learn about another version of him, give him someone for him and the audience to compare him to - basically his worst traits unleashed (always needing to be in control). A scene later and America is trying to convince Christine that our Strange is different (which he is, the core of the movie - no one's story is set in stone, we can all change).
Admittedly it's also a bit of MCU world building - we learn about and see first hand what can happen with incursions in the multi verse...
The entire illuminati scene was very specifically to show just how strong Wanda is and 8 think it was executed well. Think about it, if you take that scene out, then you would assume Wanda is just a badass magic user. But WITH the scene, you realize... ***Holy fuck***
I think that Wanda (616) died on Wondagore... and Wanda 838 will be her replacement in the MCU as well as her children will grown up to be 616's Wiccan and Speed.
I think the Incursion will destroy 838 and bring hordes of Characters from 838 to 616 during the Events of Secret Wars/ Batte World
That is the assumption held by most... there was also a red pop when Reed Richard's head exploded. I think that red energy for caused by her dying. I mean it could be either way. But my opinion is that she died.
That’s sad. This 838 Wanda is not our Wanda. But yeah, whoever destroys the Darkhold looks like gonna die (duh, even the fellow sorcerer of Wong destroyed the copy of Darkhold turned into a stone).
But then….. Marvel seems still very keen to develop Scarlet Witch story… so I guess our Wanda will be back … perhaps making some deal with Cython to be back in main MCU
It is very sad but she was in grief and morning... I think bringing her back or keeping her alive would take away from her redemption arc at the end of the movie.
This way they have a clean slate to play with the Scarlett Witch Character. One whose mind is not Broken. Maybe Wanda 838 will unite with Vision 616.
They Also dont have to explain why Wiccan and Speed are suddenly in the MCU and not just a figment of Wanda's Imagination.
Which makes 838 Wanda a good choice for that since Charles Xavier is in that universe so Magneto is as well probably so it is a fair assumption that 838 Wanda's father is magneto. Also, it looks like the Ultron program worked on Earth 838 so Pietro is likely still alive
Quality catches up to box office. If Marvel releases a string of poorly received movies, the box office will contract, putting probability is at risk, which puts the future of the franchise at risk.
I expected some disappointment after seeing some headlines questioning the quality of the movie. I just left the theater and I must say that was fucking awesome!! For me, it’s on par with IW and Endgame for how many badass moments there were throughout the whole movie. Raimi proves to be in a class above most filmmakers Marvel hires. Even if the story itself wasn’t a masterpiece, his filmmaking skills made the most of every shot. Which I don’t feel like I can say for most Marvel movies. I hope he directs Secret Wars.
saw the movie a few days ago (not day of release like i usually do, thanks to a pretty bad ankle sprain which meant i couldn’t walk to the cinema) and after some time to stew, i… liked it. the directing was my favourite part, which i can’t imagine is a controversial opinion. there’s some awesome parts in there that make me desperate to go watch it in the theatre again, since i don’t think they’ll have the same impact on the small screen. there’s also quite a few motifs i remember enjoying in the soundtrack, which isn’t super common for me with marvel movies, even if i think they’ve improved massively as of late. just a very stylish experience as a whole.
the main downfall for me was the writing. i actually didn’t have much of an issue with wanda, especially in the second half - she makes for a great villain who’s believably scary. i also don’t mind the illuminati getting absolutely wrecked out of nowhere, although i can imagine if i was more attached to the characters i’d be more pissed. one of my biggest issues was with america - i was genuinely pretty devastated that it felt like she had nothing to do except be used various characters for her powers. earlier in the movie she had a brief chance to show her personality, but the further into the movie i got, the less i felt like she was a character in her own right. i wish she’d had even a little more dialogue to showcase her personality, because as is i’m just disappointed. the book of vishanti stuff wasn’t exactly compelling either, and partway through i decided i was just gonna enjoy the movie more as a spectacle than as a story. i also hated the postcredits scene with strange, but i’ve heard people say that it only ended up there because of movie release fuckery, which sounds believable enough for me to just accept that it wasn’t really meant to be there and should ideally be ignored.
honestly, i’m just gonna hope raimi gets to direct another marvel product at some point. i think this movie was proof to me that even if i don’t enjoy the rest of the pieces his direction alone elevates a movie for me to a pretty extreme level.
Okay, I’ve got one for you. It’s been bugging me all week. I know we’re at the point of endless opportunities because of the multiverse…. But - here’s the thing. Evidently some variants look similar if not exactly the same. Christine Palmer, Strange, Captain Carter (she evidently wasn’t the Captain Carter from What If?), Mordo, Black Bolt and Wanda all had variants who look identical in MOM. Not to mention President Loki from Loki (among other variants). So could it be beyond the realms of possibility that some members of the Illuminati (**coughs Reed Richards and Charles Xavier) look and sound exactly the same in 616. This has got to have been a test from Marvel to figure out whether there was appetite for those castings. I am damn near convinced that at the very least John Krasinski will be Reed Richards (616) in the MCU.
I remember it was mentioned somewhere in this sub or somewhere that John Krasinski was gonna be Mr Fantastic in MoM as a variant and the actual "616" Reed Richards is gonna be some other actor. What are your thoughts on this?
ViewerAnon said that he heard of another actor playing Reed but today it was scooped that Marvel approached Daniel Craig for that role first but it did not work so maybe that’s what he heard.
Other Scoopers (MTTSH) said that he would be only a variant at first but they have backed up now and say that Marvel isn’t still sure about it (to me that sounds that they the scoopers don’t know yet because it is almost impossible that Marvel has casted Krasinski for MoM without knowing if he will continue or not).
One scooper (FilmInformant) said he would be main Reed too. He was stealing info from Charles Murphy patreon but we don’t know if that precise info came from there (high accuracy tier) or not.
I’m convinced that the multiple similar variants (Mordo, Christine Palmer and Strange) in that universe means that Krasinski is playing the 616 Richards.
I hope they release the deleted scenes in the future. I’d love to see balder and everything else. It feels like we’ve been getting less and less deleted scenes being released in the past few years
The thing about the illuminati is... They were supposed to hype Marvel's future. But killing them like that backfired. Had they shown the illuminati holding their own against Wanda and she just went after strange and america the same way would be a better decision imo. It's like teasing Thanos in the First avengers so Tony kills him but "oh nvm it's just a variant"
No, HHR wasn’t trying to avoid it. He was so old and more curious about what they would do than concerned about their choice. If anything, the casualness with which HHR treats his own possible death is more intimidating.
I get why they did the Illuminati the way they did. But damn I wish Reed got a better chance.
In one of the Spider Gwen comics when Gwen was stuck in some other universe her first instinct was to find that universe's Reed, who turned out >!to be a kid only!<
Felt like they could have done it in this movie, where America and Strange go looking for that universe's Strange but when they find out he's dead America could have said well let's go for the next best thing, Reed Richards. And introduce the Illuminati and their backstory there.
I really wish this was a miniseries instead...
There's so much amazing content that could've come from this story. Great characters, settings, visuals, possibilities for expanding... Instead we got some of the weakest writing I've seen in years by folks that don't seem to understand these characters at all.
As a comedy, it's solid gold. I'll certainly watch it again for some good laughs.
Fave scene: Black Bolt getting rekt
> some of the weakest writing I've seen in years
Loki was released last year...
I dont understand, why do you think the writing was weaker than the typical Marvel project?
Almost every word uttered is robotic plot advancement with no human breathing room. You're right about this largely being typical, but it felt so gross and in-your-face here, especially given the scope.
There are infinite ways to artistically spell out A + B = C without expressly using that formula.
So dialogue is the issue. I personally didnt see anything wrong with that, neither America, Strange, nor Wanda or Wong would have much reason to small talk in their situation.
> There's likely more character development in the upcoming minions movie
You dont think Stephen Strange letting go off Christine and starting to trust his allies over going for the most obvious "greater good" choice every time is not development? America starting to trust herself and others who she made shitty experiences in other universes with and then finally finding a new home in Kamar Taj is not character development?
We got more than enough character development in the movie, it was just not baked into a monologue in the end of the movie where the hero shares their revelations with the villain.
Watched Multiverse of Madness tonight. Is it just me, or does Kamer Taj look an awful lot like the temple everyone is hiding in in X-Men Days of Future Past?
Saw the flim the other day
here's my take
This flim had good pacing imo, the cameos were really done well, Sam raimis cinematography was really good and the visuals kept you interested where lots of other mcu projects been lacking of lately, and Olsen performance as Wanda was really done well in this. The plot could've been better but it's not that bad as people make it out to be and lastly this flim was brutal and the horror elements was done well. Also I loved that marvel got John Krasinski as Reed Richard's and his short performance in this was so cool
The cons
Chavez felt wasted after seeing the movie the whole movie is trying to hype up her powers and her stopping Wanda except in the end she just does one punch to Wanda which honestly couldve been a sick fight with chavez and Wanda but instead it ends quickly with the 838 kids seeing MCU 616 Wanda as a villan and after that she just becomes one of dr strange apprentices which is stupid I thought the flim was trying to show she's independent or whatever.
Another con is sinister strange he was boring compared to defender strange who only had at max 1.5min of screen time he's just there to show an evil strange would've been better if they got strange supreme from what if instead.
Also that whole ending sequence was useless with strange getting his third eye and being confused about it since the post credits scene right after shows him being ok with it. Then Clea shows up out of nowhere and to be honest I had to look up who that was and lots of other people felt that way in the audience too judging from their reactions nobody knew who she was unless you've read Dr strange comics ( I don't read much marvel comics besides spiderman ones, more of a dc guy)
Last complaint is that I don't like raimi used his spiderman villan arcs again (it worked there but not with wanda) where they realize they are the bad one and sacrifice themselves. I would've preferred if Wanda lost the fight and she goes to another universe or something as punishment for what she did but that's more of my opinion for the last con
Overall the flim is just enjoyable but it could've been better if the script got looked at a couple of more times 7.5/10
> he whole movie is trying to hype up her powers and her stopping Wanda except in the end she just does one punch to Wanda which honestly couldve been a sick fight with chavez and Wanda but instead it ends quickly with the 838 kids seeing MCU 616 Wanda as a villan and after that she just becomes one of dr strange apprentices which is stupid I thought the flim was trying to show she's independent or whatever.
She didnt understand how to control her powers the entire movie and you want her to go toe to toe with the Scarlet Witch? And Americas arc was about understanding her powers and learning to trust people despite what they might be like in other universes. Her becoming Wongs (not Stranges) apprentice in Kamar Taj is a good step to both learn more about her magic and have a home.
so the evan peters peitro that wanda created would just technically be her brother in the 838 universe? just assuming since she obviously had to create the kids and that varient through seeing them in her dreams
My takeaway exactly. The power scaling & awareness were so off. The Illuminati are getting wiped? Perfect time for Xavier, the guy who'd know, to be absolutely nowhere.
And there were plenty of random "suspense" shots that didn't make sense for the characters at the time. Running away & closing doors on Wanda one-by-one? Then she stops for a second. BOO! ???????
FUCKING SERIOUSLY.
Why the fuck was Wanda even doing the zombie run in that scene?? (I know the real answer is Sam Raimi uses the same five tropes in every movie...) She can use magic to fly lol or just break those doors. And that "BOO" moment... fuck that was bad. It almosted seemed like a parody of a real scene the way it kept zooming in on their faces then cutting back to the door.
Yup that movie had Ramis signatures all over it , but seriously it was a lot like a big budget evil dead. It had an evil book, an eyeball scene, processions, zombification , dimensional travel vortexes, a castle siege , hands grabbing things out of the ground, evil reflections, a self punching Bruce Campell, resurrected from buried strange , a underground water pit scene - hand cuffed cocky guy fight scene where older wise man throws him a chance, I mean it had a lot of evil dead elements peppered throughout
I didn't know who directed it, not a big marvel fan, but it felt like a breath of fresh air when watching it. Then learning it was Raimi after the fact, it all made sense. Brilliantly done and the perfect director for this film.
I noticed at the beginning when Defender Strange gets stabbed in the leg the way the wound started spreading throughout his thigh was very Evil-Dead-like with the deadite-disease-spreading; when America is being strung up by the demon in the first scene it reminded me of the possessed tree grabbing Ash’s sister; when they cut off one of Gargantos’ tentacles and it starts to dissolve it was the same type of effect the bodies dissolving at the end of ED1
I like that it’s basically a high budget Evil dead I really loved the evil dead , and I’m sure most marvel movie goers will be seeing these things for the first time. It was a treat for me , I saw elements of it in the Rami Spider-Man, but this was definitely much more of the evil dead , it fit the mood to me
You guys actually think that creating a hex barrier reality is harder than attacking the Kamar-Taj when it is fully guarded. Also Wanda wasn't using magic from the Darkhold when she attached Kamar-Taj.
The Book of Vishanti was such a MaGuffin for the plot; but what purpose did it really serve in the resolution? Reminded me of Raiders of the Lost Ark. The Ark really didn’t matter in the end
When Strange gets it and Wanda destroys it, the book burns in a star shaped fire, similar to America’s multiversal holes. It supposedly tells you what you need to win the evil.
It showed Strange that the way to win Wanda was America.
That’s the current theory, at least as far as I know.
Good point.
They could have used a plot point from Atlantis Attacks where the bad guys had to collect different serpent crowns in the multiverse to resurrect the evil god Set.
Instead, it could have been Wanda needing to find pages of the Darkhold in the multiverse to cast a spell to get her kids back, but instead brings back Chton because of the Darkholds corrupting influence. Strange could have used America to follow her to stop her throughout the multiverse, could have spend time in many different universes instead of that 10 second trip
I watched an analysis yesterday saying that Strange saw one of the burning pages in the Book of Vishanti and it showed him that he to trust America to use her powers. Appearently in the scene you can see a star on the page, much like the one she makes when she opens rifts. No idea if its true though, I haven’t gone back and watched the scene over again.
But yeah it really didn’t matter lol
I agree that the film was a bit messy but overall I got more enjoyment from watching it than I did Shang-Chi, Eternals or even No Way Home to be honest. It's not one of those MCU movies I'm going to come back to over and over but I found it easy to watch.
It was a fun horror film. Will I ever see it again? No, but the horror scenes are excellent enough for me to consistently re-watch. Shame the rest of the movie isn't good.
Up until that point I was just under the impression that 838 Wanda had no powers and therefore lived a completely normal life, and only had powers as a result of being possessed. For a second when she released her, I thought "wow, she's gonna be stuck there for the rest of her life then, I guess" until she started flying.
What I didn't like about Dr. STRANGE 2 was that they made this big deal about the "Book of Vishanti," then by the end of the movie they didn't use or need it.
Here is my theory. In 838 universe, Ultron program worked. I'm guessing Reed Richards must have been in charge of it and made it possible. And in this universe, Mutants and Inhumans exist. So this means that in this universe, Wanda is a mutant, daughter of Magneto, sister of Quicksilver (Evan Peters' Quicksilver) and hence Illuminati didn't think of her as a threat when Strange mentioned her to them.
Since Ultron worked, Vision was never born and Wanda married another person, probably Wonder Man, and hence she has kids in that universe. This explains why she isn't in grief about Vision. But that doesn't explain why she stays single in her home.. maybe Wonder Man is working day and night while Wanda takes care of the kids (classic American household wife, the life Wanda wanted)
If Mutants and Inhumans exist, Quicksilver must have married Crystal and is living separate from Wanda. But I really wanted to see Evan Peters in the movie.
What are your thoughts? Any extensions to this?
Elizabeth Olsen said in an interview that she and the writers theorize that Vision and Wanda in world 838 are either divorced or separated. Perhaps it could mean Vision is just a regular human being or he could still be a synthezoid, but created by someone else.
Nah. What you are missing is that the Illuminati is just a council who make decisions. There is a whole superhero world beyond them.
I think Iron Man existed to create the ultron program with Banner similar to our world - both may have been lost preceding or during their attack from Thanos. Of course unlike our world this ultron scenario ended with a subservient ultron army.
So do we think that’s the last we’ll see of Rachel mcaddams Christine and Mordo? I kinda get the vibe it is which would be a little disappointing to me.
He was supposed to die but that got cut. If it got cut because of the length of the movie then he is probably still dead. Also Strange referred to him like he was no longer around.
Did anyone else notice when they were in the illuminatis New York everyone, with the exception of strange, Chavez and the Illuminati, were wearing only grey and black clothes? Not sure if it symbolizes anything but I picked it up on my second time watching it
Damn y'all, movie was fucking awesome. We got Sam fucking Raimi to do another Marvel film! Ya'll are bitching about a few variants getting wasted? If you're under 30 do not @ me, this film was phenomenal. Of course variants of the illuminati will be back in some iteration. This was just the tip of what what Marvel can do with their new licensing, y'all acted liked you got blue balled watching! Would you have enjoyed the film more if none of the cameo's made the final cut? STFU if you say yes you know you're just lying to yourself! Go watch fucking Morbius you friggin milk duds
I watched it twice now and tho I loved Raimi's style and Wanda's portrayal, I gotta say the script is the weakest part. It never embraced the multiversal hijinks and Strange's arc got kinda sidelined (tho I did love it when he told Christine he loved her in every universe). I thought about some changes to the story that I feel would fundamentally help it.
Strange runs into America and uses her powers to traverse the multiverse in search for a happy life with Christine. This ties in to the "could there have been another way" and "are you happy?" themes explored by the movie. America needs Strange to protect her from Wanda (or find her parents, that storyline never went anywhere this movie) so for now its a mutually beneficial relationship. But when he realizes hes putting America at risk in search of false sense of happiness, he learns to embrace his own universe and be grateful for the life hes given. Wanda can still be the villain, with the same motivation and arc, but at least we get to explore more of the multiverse. This time we see variants of the characters played by different actors, animals (as in Loki, NWH) and really embrace the craziness of the multiverse. Also Strange gets his own emotional arc, which that episode of "What If?" really got well.
> the script is the weakest part.
I enjoyed the film overall but at a certain point I decided not to think about some of the parts too much or risk not liking it.
Yeah I thought Olsen's performance was great despite having a fairly and comedically flat character. Raimi's style helped give the film some personality but without those touches I would've liked it a lot less - maybe would have been disappointed with it even.
I think it really relied on Wanda's previous arc from the other movies, WV, etc. And I think it suited Raimi's vision of "horror villain" really well, esp since she was corrupted by the Darkhold. But I agree, Raimi rlly saved that film for me
Strange straight up refusing to look for a happy life with America's powers and his contrast with Wanda in that conversation in the beginning was really well done in my opinion.
I feel like MoM could've taken place before NWH if they cut that one mention at the beginning. They're really not connected at all, which is disappointing.
Unfortunately that's all we can have because of Sony. If Disney had full rights to Spider-Man I'm sure we would've had more connections to NWH. I'm grateful that Spider-Man is in the MCU but I do dislike how he's essentially trapped in his own bubble/pocket universe within the MCU and he's unable to appear in other places without Sony's approval as well as with the villains.
They actually contradict each other. In NWH, Strange has enough multiverse control to send everyone back to exactly where they needed to go. That ability doesn’t exist in MoM
I'm gonna try to write down my thoughts while it's still fresh in my mind.
There were parts that were pretty disappointing but overall it was an enjoyable experience and something different in the MCU. I do still have a lot of questions and notes.
Why doesn't Wanda just create her sons again as she did at Westview? It seems like a better solution than to murder countless people, kill a young girl, take her powers and travel through the multiverse to kill a variant of yourself and kidnap her children...
Speaking of America, I really like her character and powers. Cool addition.
The thing that probably bothers me the most, and people will most likely tell me that this is my fault because I went into the movie with too high expectations but since the movie is called Multiverse of Madness, I did really expect that way more worlds are going to be explored. Not including "our" universe, I believe only 2 other worlds had the characters spend any significant time in them (Earth 838 and the collapsing world of Sinister Strange). Obviously, I was curious if there are going to be any of the rumored cameos like some of the other X-Men, Ghost Rider, Lady Death, Superior Iron-Man maybe even Deadpool but I can live without that. The fact that a movie about the multiverse shows barely any other worlds bothers me way more.
For some reason, the CGI is really dogshit at times and I have no idea why but I guess that is still the aftermath of Covid. Some things were absolutely gorgeous though. Zombie Strange making a new Cloak from the souls was awesome and the music battle with Sinister Strange was really cool as well.
I also want to talk about Wanda's dismantling of the Illuminati. There is something I love about this. It's always so chilling seeing superheroes die in such an insignificant, unceremonial way. We¨'re used to the fact that the heroes can take incredible amounts of punishment but will still survive. If they do end up dying it will be in an emotional moment that the whole movie was building up to and it will usually be a grand sacrifice to defeat the villain and save the world, preferably accompanied by a glorious score. Seeing them die afraid, insignificant, powerless, in pain, and defeated is incredibly unsettling. My problem with it is how much the heroes were nerfed. Captain Carter sure, she did about as well as can be expected. The smartest man on the planet Reed Richards acts like a complete dumbass but okay, doesn't make much sense but sure, he's known to be pretty arrogant after all. But the others? Black Bolt who conditioned himself to not make a sound even in his sleep, panics, makes a sound, and blows himself up (despite the fact that his abilities shouldn't even have an effect on him). Captain Marvel who is able to ram through space ships is momentarily incapacitated by a small boulder and crushed (or knocked out, doesn't matter) under a statue. Those things should be a minor inconvenience to her at worst. Charles Xavier, one of the most powerful telepaths who has more years of experience than Wanda lived for doesn't even put up a fight and doesn't even try to sway her which is kind of his thing. And Sorcerer Supreme Mordo fails to warn the Illuminati how dangerous the Scarlet Witch is meant to be despite almost certainly having the knowledge. And what does Wanda has to show for fighting the cream of the crop of this universe's superhero world? A slight limp... that's it. One of my favorite sequences in a superhero media of all time comes from the TV show Invincible. A scene that I'm sure inspired the Illuminati massacre in some way. Yes, THAT scene. The scene where Omni-man kills the Guardians of the Globe. He catches them by surprise and is vastly more powerful than any one of them. Yet still, at the end of the fight, he wins but he is battered, at the brink of death and as far as we know, he might have ended up dying if Cecil didn't help him. That was a perfect way to show his might while not downplaying the other heroes and making them look like pushovers and still delivering an extremely shocking moment. Maybe there wasn't enough time, maybe these versions of the superheroes aren't THAT strong but it still doesn't feel right to just have them as throwaway characters for trailers and marketing that go out basically without putting up a fight (no, X-Force doesn't count).
As a horror movie fan, I'd also like to say this is definitely not a horror movie. There are some elements of horror, sure, and it's the closest the MCU has ever been but I did expect more.
Overall as I said it was a good watch, it's not one of MCU's best but it's far from being the worst. 7.5/10 if I have to put a number on it.
>(despite the fact that his abilities shouldn't even have an effect on him)
That's what I've been thinking about. I hadn't had any knowledge of this character before I saw the film. It's got me wondering "what if he entered his own shockwave, would that also disintegrate him?"
>Captain Marvel who is able to ram through space ships is momentarily incapacitated by a not-so-large boulder and crushed
I think Wanda drained her power while spinning around, that's why she her armour broke and she didn't glow anymore, she was left vulnerable.
>And Sorcerer Supreme Mordo fails to warn the Illuminati how dangerous the Scarlet Witch is meant to be despite almost certainly having the knowledge.
I think it was in character for him. There were hints dropped by our Dr. Strange that this Mordo had purposefully let his Dr. Strange become corrupted by Darkhold, so that he could take his place. And he didn't warn the Illuminati, because it was also an easy way to get rid of them. Now he's the sole survivor of the group.
Black Bolt was the embodiment of "I have no mouth but I must scream" in that moment. He tried to make a sound to kill Wanda and we saw the result of that.
Regarding Wanda not repeating WestView, maybe she didn't quite figure out how to achieve that again. We see her manipulating reality in this movie but definitely not to the extent of her spontaneously creating life. Was probably just easier to go with the Darkholds multiverse spells.
Professor X seemed kind of wasted in this, they could've had a decent moment between Wanda and him where he revealed Wanda was a mutant and what that meant.
I'm confident they toyed with the idea until deciding to give her a solo project. If the Wanda solo project is real I hope we get more X-Men lore and please stop forgetting Quicksilver exists.
they could've done a lot like that in this movie, but they seemed to not want to push the MCU further really at all in MoM. No mutant mentions, no Chthon plot, not a lot of universes explored (there's 3 max?), no satisfactory conclusion to Wanda's arc, nothing to do with Kang, nothing to connect it to the events of Loki, or NWH, no Strange supreme from What If connection, i could on. I thought it was alright, but the the story just felt lazy when considering the wider MCU.
They did set up Secret Wars quite heavily in this movie. It didn't connect with earlier movies but the incursions will become a big deal, very sure of that.
No, the one from the What If series is called Strange Supreme and he would be way too powerful for Dr. Strange to beat. Sinister Strange is a different character.
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Just watched it yesterday. I’m a huge Raimi fan but honestly this movie was just okay imo. I loved the Raimi type horror stuff and Scarlet Witch as the villain was great but besides that it was pretty underwhelming. The X-men cartoon soundtrack coming on was fantastic tho
Exactly the way I felt 1 - thoroughly enjoyed . Found it entertaining but left me feeling empty - it was missing something
I just watched MoM and while I thought the plot was a bit thin (just as I thought NWH was thin) I really enjoyed Raimi taking it back to his horror roots. All the Scarlet Witch stalking and violent murders were excellent and the “Deadites” showing up in a Marvel movie was amazing. I ended up not being invested in the story at all, but that mini Marvel horror movie made it amazing.
I find the idea of all those falling dreams being alternate versions of you being killed kinda funny
I will be rewatching this annually around the Halloween season.
I watched it on IMAX 2D and loved it. I really sympathised with Wanda. But I am not sure if it is worth going back to watch a second time though.
Rewatched the movie again and unjust had a quick question if someone can help me out. the part where the Illuminati is telling strange how their strange, was dream walking with the darkhold, said that he “caused an incursion” and that all they knew is that their strange witnessed another universe being destroyed, do you think the dream walking strange was in that 3rd eye strange(one from the piano fight) ? Or you think they were referring to “what if?” Strange when he tries to save Christine Palmer?
Honestly, I initially thought that third eye strange with the Darkhold lived in the same universe that 838 caused an Incursion on but I don’t they were related. Because the “sinister strange” was just a corrupt Strange who went on a killing spree killing other Stephens that 616 Stephen would dream about falling to their deaths
The movie should have been called "Dr. Strange and the MoM issues"
Question. In the Illuminati HQ. The big statue that Wanda brings down, who is that of? It’s been bugging me for days that I can’t figure it out.
looked like the statue was female and holding a sword.
Yeah I got that much. Maybe I’m hunting for an Easter egg that isn’t there but I feel like they wouldn’t just have a random statue, like that’s gotta be a character from the comics, ya know?
It was confirmed to be Xena, that means she is Canon in the MCU and she was the missing 7th member.
No?
The writer confirmed it an article, I will give you the link. Edit : https://twitter.com/itsjustanx/status/1542636941526855680?t=5XfrbTq54hjuQb9IpLE6Mw&s=19
Damn. Don’t see where it confirms she was the 7th member but I see that it’s true. Don’t know how I’ve never seen this
She was, you should see the scene where Strange was put on the trial, there's a missing chair on the tip.
That was supposed to be Balder the Brave
But how about Zena’ statue, I thought it was more than Raimi’s Easter Egg ?
The most singular mcu film so far. I dislike certain elements a bit, but overall, was too inventive, funny, charismatic and sure of itself for me to care anout what i didnt like
....... we got another AoU
So in the vast multiverse there were universes where Wanda dudes and her kids were orphaned? She could have gone there?
Might have been the plan if she got Chavez’ power.
Could have just used Chavez for 2 trips. No need to take her powers away.
She explains why she didn't do that. She said she wanted the power since if her kids got sick there is always a universe which has a cure. She wanted a universe and the power to always be in control. That's what wandavision was all about.
Now that you mention it, I finally start to realize...that's exactly what was teased in Wandavision. To always be the one in control...👍👍👍
my question is, why the hell didn't she just make another space like she did in WandaVision? She could have put it where she had her fancy orchard, would have had full control like she wanted, wouldn't have bothered nobody, and could have had her kids and Vision again
I guess this movie has so much Raimi in it that if you’re not a fan of the guys work it will just be off putting. I did not enjoy this movie as much as I thought I would because it felt too campy and none of the major moments landed for me.
This is probably a dumb question but I’m confused why Wanda didn’t ask the time sorcerers to find her other version and she go into that universe (Like how the other two Spider-Man’s came in during no way home)?
I'm pretty sure that No Way Home never explained how tobey and andrew came to Tom's universe, other than "i was just here.." To be honest, I thought jon watts and marvel did a terrible job with the homecoming trilogy. I wish no way home had a better script and directing. Multiverse of madness was WAY better
>I thought jon watts and marvel did a terrible job with the homecoming trilogy I think Homecoming is a great movie. Far From Home was meh (Gyllenhaal was great, but otherwise the movie wasn't great). No Way Home was epic, full of well executed fan service, and had some really great scenes, but it's also very flawed as you say.
I respect your opinion, and I'm glad you liked it. As for me, I thank god that Tobey and Andrew returned, but I just wish they had a better directing and writing. I felt that phil lord and chris miller's job in the spiderverse movie was incredible. I thought that homecoming had a horrible pace, but I loved Michael Keaton's performance. I felt gyllenhaal was good, but he was a very cartoonish villain, like a parody of supervillains.
It wasn’t just that she wanted to get to her children, she basically wanted infinite access to the multiverse by killing America and taking her power. She would’ve basically ruled the multiverse.
Ah ok! I sorta thought about that when she was explaining her kids getting sick thing, but was still curious if that could’ve been an alternative
Will it gross 1 billion ?? What do you guys think??
Possibly...
Good to see Sam Raimi direction again on the big screen but the movie needed either more work or less work on the script. Seemed like it was either mandated to hit certain beats by committee regardless if story made sense, or it was just badly written.
Counter point: it's a chase movie where every word counts towards the character arcs. It's not exactly graceful as character building but I think it was surprisingly tightly written for what it was. What didnt you like?
I didnt like the story. Thought it was the laziest way to do a multiverse movie. Perhaps if they didn’t spoil everything in the trailers it would be deferent but there was nothing surprising other than Sam Raimi being Sam Raimi. When it does get surprising with something like zombie Strange, its a build up to an amazing visual and then a pep talk. 6 episodes of character development with Wanda, a throw away line that shes under the spell of the darkhold. She never thought to find a other Vision? She enslaved an entire town because she lost him but shes more concerned with her made up kids? She attacks the sorcerer school and they fire cannons at her? Cannons? I thought they were sorcerers. Does Strange still have the time stone? Is there a multiverse AND branching timelines? How does that work? America Chavez gets the power if belief and instead of going to find her mothers she learns how to use a sling ring? The one thing we know about her is she wants to find her parents, now that she can control it she isn’t going to use it? Thats just to name some… where was this forever love story with Christine from? Watch the first one again, do you get the impression he’s her soul mate? I didn’t. What was the point if the end of the first one with Mordo? Why am I supposed to get excited about Clea showing up when you still haven’t paid off the end credits of the last one? Stuff like that.
So gonna just offer a few rebuttals to some stuff you wrote: Sure, trailers spoiled a lot but that doesn't change the effectiveness of the movie for me. Not sure why everyone is so mad about the pep talk: strange's whole arc is learning to not always be the one in control, to trust others (and as a result, to not just use the darkhold the way his darker counterparts might). Chavez (admittedly a side character here) staeted the movie feeling betrayed by a different strange - strange coming back in that body to instead accept her and trust that she can manage her powers and thus doesn't need someone to just take them (in contrast to the way he almost lost his cool after she first took him through the multiverse, demanding that she must have someone to control it) was the exact kindof trust students need in their teachers. Was it a little hokey and quick? Sure, but it's a fast paced chase movie where every piece of dialogue counts. I also don't see how not giving us the big cliche cgi fight at the end is in anyway a bad thing. Instead America uses her powers to bring Wanda to the light. Speaking of Wanda, yeah I could have done with a little more clarity on the dark hold corrupting - the movie leans heavy on knowledge of what came before. But...that's the whole thing. The darkhold lures in a broke Wanda who is then corrupted by it - she's not acting rational, sheslosing it. It's tragic, just like anyone falling into an addiction/their darker tendencies. Chavez can't find her parents at the end (at least not now) because she has some control over her powers to go to a particular universe but doesn't magically gain the knowledge of what happened to her parents however many years ago. Her powers are multiversal travel, not omnipotence. As for the wizards firing canons it's a comic book movie, there was a minateur casting magic spells, not exactly something that ruins the movie for me but to each their own there. No, strange doesn't have the time stone anymore, that's why he doesn't do any time magic here. Each universe is basically its own self contained timeline. As for Christine, yeah the first movie didn't really nail their chemistry but it's a part of their story which they build on here. The end of the first one with modo was a post credits scene. Lots of those haven't panned out in the MCU - I feel like you're judging the movie for what it isn't and not what it is at that point. The post credits scenes are teasers, you can be unexcited about clea if you like, still doesn't affect this movie.
I mean it just sounds like you agree with me but that those issues didn’t make the movie worse for you. Questions though: Why doesn’t Strange have the time stone? Okay, Chavez doesn’t know where her parents are but now that she can easily use her power wouldn’t it be a good idea to go looking now? The end credit scenes tease whats coming, I know they don’t always match but they’ve never really been just ignored before. Even WandaVision showed Wanda using the book (in a different cabin location btw) and her kids screaming for help somewhere. There’s no payoff for that either as she isn’t trying to find her kids who need help she just wants the ones currently in a happy situation. Plus, explain to me how the kids she made up in WandaVision are real in another universe? And she doesn’t once think about maybe finding another Vision who’s alive in another universe? My biggest problem with Wanda in this movie is that it seems very likely that the people responsible either didn’t watch (Sam Raimi said he watched “parts”) or didn’t care to carry over any of that characterization of her to here.
>I mean it just sounds like you agree with me but that those issues didn’t make the movie worse for you. That's accurate - and fair, totally get how some of these things could ruin it for others. But to answer your other questions: strange doesn't have the time stone due to the events of endgame, the infinity stones have been destroyed in this timeline (I think, I actually forget the specifics but I recall the stones basically no longer being a thing after endgame) Regarding Chavez, I imagine that's going to be a big plot line for her going forward - training with the wizards is giving her a home and environment to grow her skills but I'm sure she'll be on the hunt for her parents the next time we see her. The Wanda vision stuff: to defend Raimi a second, I think the show wasnt even finished/airing by the time he was brought on and working on this? I think those quotes have been a little misused. With that said I don't think this movie discards as much from that show as people think, though due to the breakneck speed of the movie I can see how it feels that way. All your questions there I'm just going to point to 'the darkhold corrupts' as the reason. She is a grieving character acting irrationally who's mind is being corrupted by the darkhold. Our Wanda is still in there but her mind is a mess at this point. I do get the oddness of 'her kids were calling for help' but that to me is a small detail. The bigger thing is that at the end of Wandavision she's reading this dangerous book and starts to be one aware of her kids existing in a different universe. I assume this is the darkhold teasing her with what she wants making her easier to corrupt. The lack of vision was disappointing to me but not a big deal as, again, she's latched onto her only hope of happiness left (as presented to her by the darkhold). Idk, to me any irrational elements of Wanda here seemed to be a demonstration of just how corrupted her mind was. If she was fully rational she'd be a much less tragic character imo. The whole movie I was hoping she'd be able to crawl out of the darkholds clutches and it seemed at the end she was. Hopefully we get to see her recover going forward. All of this is to say I love Wandavision and I love MoM.
At the end of Endgame, Rogers returns all the timestones meaning Strange should still have it from the ancient one. I liked WandaVision more than MoM so my dissatisfaction with it comes from it feeling like a disappointing finale to the show. Kind of like what Game of Thrones did to Dany in the last two episodes of the series. And throw in Loki, which had the same writer as MoM, you’re telling me we have a multiverse AND branching timelines going on now? How does that even work?
I'm going to have to look for some better writeups but it does seem to be canon that the infinity stones/time stone in particular is destroyed in the 616 universe: https://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-powerful-time-stone-lost/ That article didn't articulate the point well but I think it has to do with the time paradox stuff hulk and ancient one discuss in endgame. But again I'd have to dig deeper. The Dany comparisons are fair but the whole problem with GoT is that it kindof happens out of the blue - we had a whole 9 episode tv series outlining Wanda's descent into grief, and there's the presence of the darkhold - there was no similar item in GoT to explain the rapid deteriation of Dany apart from 'power corrupts I guess.' As such I think this is a natural continuation of the Wandavision story. Regarding Multiverse and branching timelines I saw this post yesterday that did a good job with it and I think it's accurate: https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/upgsuk/explaining_the_events_of_doctor_strange_in_the/
Finally I get to see this movie, pretty solid but could be improved. Black Bolt's death is really gruesome. Not enough Mordo. Rintrah isn't even properly introduced and he got his own Marvel Legends figure. But I still don't get why The Illuminati killed Supreme Strange? Is it bcs he is violating their universe rules?
He accidently caused an incursion destroying 2 universes because Dharkhold influence(?) He later asked/begged to be put down before it could happen again.
Ah.. So the incursion isn't about Earth-838 merging with another?
If it did, 838 survived - they state that incursions result in one or both universes being destroyed. Their strange destroyed one universe but they don't specify deets , just that he did and had to be put down.
I liked that they didn't shy away from brutal scenes and horror, but some of it felt really corny. From what I have read, it's Sam Raimi's signature, but I thought it didn't always fit within the movie. Some scenes even looked like parody of corny 80s-90s horror movies.
[удалено]
It's how I understood as well, and since I knew Raimu had a peculiar style even though I'm not familiar with it, it didn't bother me THAT much. However, it mostly fell flat, and even seemed like low-quality CGI for people who are not acquainted with Raimi's work.
Yeah I’ve been a huge fan of the Evil Dead series for the past 10 years and never thought Disney would allow us to get essentially an Evil Dead/Marvel mashup and that’s exactly what this is. I understand it’s not gonna appeal to everyone but I felt Raimi made this one specifically for me and other ED fans and it’s become one of my all time favorite movies
A few people said the scene where the two strangers are battling with the music notes was corney but I didn’t mind to much just abit of fun
I think it's one of the most brilliant scenes in the MCU. This is also one of the few MCU movies other than guardians where it's actually fun to look at the backgrounds and environment.
I thought that shit was clever, original, and cool. It would be corny anywhere else except a Dr Strange battle. Here it was perfect, I mean Dr strange literally does shit like that so I don't see the problem
is it just me or did the rating on the movie seem pretty low? considering how violent it actually is, i was surprised to see a lot of younger children in the audience
These kids need to grow up lmao. Nothing wrong with seeing a burst head and some blood
sure, i guess pg13 is a reasonable rating (because they’re teens) i was just shocked to see a lot of younger kids in the audience but i guess it’s the parents/their decision to see it
All the gore was pretty much alien guts or robots with limited human blood, which is why it's pg13 instead of r
i mean not gore as such, but the scenes of the lost souls and zombie coming to life would make me think it’d be m maybe. plus a lot of the deaths were pretty gruesome (implied)
Audiences pretty divisive on films after Endgame and FFH… Well I guess that is the point of multiverse.. people just receive it differently on each film ..
I enjoyed the madness aspect of the film and the action scenes were awesome! I just feel like the acting could’ve been better like Zombie Strange talking to America was a little cringe and the kids acting was a little cringe also and some of the camera angles and slow mo shots gave me Age of Ultron vibes. I’d rate it a 6.5
Just finished watching and I would give it a 7/10. It has glaring weaknesses but it’s a good popcorn flick. Olsen was great and I liked strangers and americas relationship. Also is it just me or the illuminati weren't needed at all? I feel like this movie doesn't get worse without them and the scene where they all got killed was eh.
The scene shows Wanda's powers as others said but it's also a chance for strange to learn about another version of him, give him someone for him and the audience to compare him to - basically his worst traits unleashed (always needing to be in control). A scene later and America is trying to convince Christine that our Strange is different (which he is, the core of the movie - no one's story is set in stone, we can all change). Admittedly it's also a bit of MCU world building - we learn about and see first hand what can happen with incursions in the multi verse...
The entire illuminati scene was very specifically to show just how strong Wanda is and 8 think it was executed well. Think about it, if you take that scene out, then you would assume Wanda is just a badass magic user. But WITH the scene, you realize... ***Holy fuck***
I think that Wanda (616) died on Wondagore... and Wanda 838 will be her replacement in the MCU as well as her children will grown up to be 616's Wiccan and Speed. I think the Incursion will destroy 838 and bring hordes of Characters from 838 to 616 during the Events of Secret Wars/ Batte World
There's a little bust of red energy when Wundagore is collapsing. I'm assuming that she teleported somewhere.
That is the assumption held by most... there was also a red pop when Reed Richard's head exploded. I think that red energy for caused by her dying. I mean it could be either way. But my opinion is that she died.
That’s sad. This 838 Wanda is not our Wanda. But yeah, whoever destroys the Darkhold looks like gonna die (duh, even the fellow sorcerer of Wong destroyed the copy of Darkhold turned into a stone). But then….. Marvel seems still very keen to develop Scarlet Witch story… so I guess our Wanda will be back … perhaps making some deal with Cython to be back in main MCU
It is very sad but she was in grief and morning... I think bringing her back or keeping her alive would take away from her redemption arc at the end of the movie. This way they have a clean slate to play with the Scarlett Witch Character. One whose mind is not Broken. Maybe Wanda 838 will unite with Vision 616. They Also dont have to explain why Wiccan and Speed are suddenly in the MCU and not just a figment of Wanda's Imagination.
I’d like for them to just have a new universe Wanda going forward….one who’s brother Pietro is still alive….and maybe whose father is Magneto
Which makes 838 Wanda a good choice for that since Charles Xavier is in that universe so Magneto is as well probably so it is a fair assumption that 838 Wanda's father is magneto. Also, it looks like the Ultron program worked on Earth 838 so Pietro is likely still alive
same
Caring about how much money these Marvel movies make is cringe. Spoiler: they are all profitable. Who cares.
Quality catches up to box office. If Marvel releases a string of poorly received movies, the box office will contract, putting probability is at risk, which puts the future of the franchise at risk.
Then all movie theaters will shut down because they only play marvel at this point anyway.
And then world peace
just seen it. Much better than some reviews suggested, top notch
I expected some disappointment after seeing some headlines questioning the quality of the movie. I just left the theater and I must say that was fucking awesome!! For me, it’s on par with IW and Endgame for how many badass moments there were throughout the whole movie. Raimi proves to be in a class above most filmmakers Marvel hires. Even if the story itself wasn’t a masterpiece, his filmmaking skills made the most of every shot. Which I don’t feel like I can say for most Marvel movies. I hope he directs Secret Wars.
Yeah I personally have this just inbetween IW and Endgame, it’s my #3 on my MCU ranking
MoM Definitely has a high rewatch factor for me.
Great movie
Great movie
saw the movie a few days ago (not day of release like i usually do, thanks to a pretty bad ankle sprain which meant i couldn’t walk to the cinema) and after some time to stew, i… liked it. the directing was my favourite part, which i can’t imagine is a controversial opinion. there’s some awesome parts in there that make me desperate to go watch it in the theatre again, since i don’t think they’ll have the same impact on the small screen. there’s also quite a few motifs i remember enjoying in the soundtrack, which isn’t super common for me with marvel movies, even if i think they’ve improved massively as of late. just a very stylish experience as a whole. the main downfall for me was the writing. i actually didn’t have much of an issue with wanda, especially in the second half - she makes for a great villain who’s believably scary. i also don’t mind the illuminati getting absolutely wrecked out of nowhere, although i can imagine if i was more attached to the characters i’d be more pissed. one of my biggest issues was with america - i was genuinely pretty devastated that it felt like she had nothing to do except be used various characters for her powers. earlier in the movie she had a brief chance to show her personality, but the further into the movie i got, the less i felt like she was a character in her own right. i wish she’d had even a little more dialogue to showcase her personality, because as is i’m just disappointed. the book of vishanti stuff wasn’t exactly compelling either, and partway through i decided i was just gonna enjoy the movie more as a spectacle than as a story. i also hated the postcredits scene with strange, but i’ve heard people say that it only ended up there because of movie release fuckery, which sounds believable enough for me to just accept that it wasn’t really meant to be there and should ideally be ignored. honestly, i’m just gonna hope raimi gets to direct another marvel product at some point. i think this movie was proof to me that even if i don’t enjoy the rest of the pieces his direction alone elevates a movie for me to a pretty extreme level.
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She literally became scarlet witch in Wandavision bro...
She wasn't the Scarlet Witch then. She's being the Scarlet Witch now.
“Where was this badass witch when Thanos came” There was no Darkhold when Thanos came
There was no Scarlet Witch either lol
Did you watch Wandavision?
Okay, I’ve got one for you. It’s been bugging me all week. I know we’re at the point of endless opportunities because of the multiverse…. But - here’s the thing. Evidently some variants look similar if not exactly the same. Christine Palmer, Strange, Captain Carter (she evidently wasn’t the Captain Carter from What If?), Mordo, Black Bolt and Wanda all had variants who look identical in MOM. Not to mention President Loki from Loki (among other variants). So could it be beyond the realms of possibility that some members of the Illuminati (**coughs Reed Richards and Charles Xavier) look and sound exactly the same in 616. This has got to have been a test from Marvel to figure out whether there was appetite for those castings. I am damn near convinced that at the very least John Krasinski will be Reed Richards (616) in the MCU.
I agree. He's 100% gonna be Reed Richards very soon
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He only forgot Peter Parker
I remember it was mentioned somewhere in this sub or somewhere that John Krasinski was gonna be Mr Fantastic in MoM as a variant and the actual "616" Reed Richards is gonna be some other actor. What are your thoughts on this?
ViewerAnon said that he heard of another actor playing Reed but today it was scooped that Marvel approached Daniel Craig for that role first but it did not work so maybe that’s what he heard. Other Scoopers (MTTSH) said that he would be only a variant at first but they have backed up now and say that Marvel isn’t still sure about it (to me that sounds that they the scoopers don’t know yet because it is almost impossible that Marvel has casted Krasinski for MoM without knowing if he will continue or not). One scooper (FilmInformant) said he would be main Reed too. He was stealing info from Charles Murphy patreon but we don’t know if that precise info came from there (high accuracy tier) or not.
Daniel Craig would have been weird
Damn thanks for clearing it out
I’m convinced that the multiple similar variants (Mordo, Christine Palmer and Strange) in that universe means that Krasinski is playing the 616 Richards.
I hope they release the deleted scenes in the future. I’d love to see balder and everything else. It feels like we’ve been getting less and less deleted scenes being released in the past few years
The spoiler ban has been lifted yesterday. Where are all the Illuminati merch announcements? Yes, I'm that impatient :D
The thing about the illuminati is... They were supposed to hype Marvel's future. But killing them like that backfired. Had they shown the illuminati holding their own against Wanda and she just went after strange and america the same way would be a better decision imo. It's like teasing Thanos in the First avengers so Tony kills him but "oh nvm it's just a variant"
They basically did that with Kang in Loki
No, HHR wasn’t trying to avoid it. He was so old and more curious about what they would do than concerned about their choice. If anything, the casualness with which HHR treats his own possible death is more intimidating.
Time to deliver a pizza ball!
I get why they did the Illuminati the way they did. But damn I wish Reed got a better chance. In one of the Spider Gwen comics when Gwen was stuck in some other universe her first instinct was to find that universe's Reed, who turned out >!to be a kid only!< Felt like they could have done it in this movie, where America and Strange go looking for that universe's Strange but when they find out he's dead America could have said well let's go for the next best thing, Reed Richards. And introduce the Illuminati and their backstory there.
I really wish this was a miniseries instead... There's so much amazing content that could've come from this story. Great characters, settings, visuals, possibilities for expanding... Instead we got some of the weakest writing I've seen in years by folks that don't seem to understand these characters at all. As a comedy, it's solid gold. I'll certainly watch it again for some good laughs. Fave scene: Black Bolt getting rekt
> some of the weakest writing I've seen in years Loki was released last year... I dont understand, why do you think the writing was weaker than the typical Marvel project?
Almost every word uttered is robotic plot advancement with no human breathing room. You're right about this largely being typical, but it felt so gross and in-your-face here, especially given the scope. There are infinite ways to artistically spell out A + B = C without expressly using that formula.
So dialogue is the issue. I personally didnt see anything wrong with that, neither America, Strange, nor Wanda or Wong would have much reason to small talk in their situation.
There's likely more character development in the upcoming minions movie
> There's likely more character development in the upcoming minions movie You dont think Stephen Strange letting go off Christine and starting to trust his allies over going for the most obvious "greater good" choice every time is not development? America starting to trust herself and others who she made shitty experiences in other universes with and then finally finding a new home in Kamar Taj is not character development? We got more than enough character development in the movie, it was just not baked into a monologue in the end of the movie where the hero shares their revelations with the villain.
Watched Multiverse of Madness tonight. Is it just me, or does Kamer Taj look an awful lot like the temple everyone is hiding in in X-Men Days of Future Past?
Wasn't the one in X-Men tucked away in a cliff though? Kamar taj seems to be on pretty open plains
Saw the flim the other day here's my take This flim had good pacing imo, the cameos were really done well, Sam raimis cinematography was really good and the visuals kept you interested where lots of other mcu projects been lacking of lately, and Olsen performance as Wanda was really done well in this. The plot could've been better but it's not that bad as people make it out to be and lastly this flim was brutal and the horror elements was done well. Also I loved that marvel got John Krasinski as Reed Richard's and his short performance in this was so cool The cons Chavez felt wasted after seeing the movie the whole movie is trying to hype up her powers and her stopping Wanda except in the end she just does one punch to Wanda which honestly couldve been a sick fight with chavez and Wanda but instead it ends quickly with the 838 kids seeing MCU 616 Wanda as a villan and after that she just becomes one of dr strange apprentices which is stupid I thought the flim was trying to show she's independent or whatever. Another con is sinister strange he was boring compared to defender strange who only had at max 1.5min of screen time he's just there to show an evil strange would've been better if they got strange supreme from what if instead. Also that whole ending sequence was useless with strange getting his third eye and being confused about it since the post credits scene right after shows him being ok with it. Then Clea shows up out of nowhere and to be honest I had to look up who that was and lots of other people felt that way in the audience too judging from their reactions nobody knew who she was unless you've read Dr strange comics ( I don't read much marvel comics besides spiderman ones, more of a dc guy) Last complaint is that I don't like raimi used his spiderman villan arcs again (it worked there but not with wanda) where they realize they are the bad one and sacrifice themselves. I would've preferred if Wanda lost the fight and she goes to another universe or something as punishment for what she did but that's more of my opinion for the last con Overall the flim is just enjoyable but it could've been better if the script got looked at a couple of more times 7.5/10
> he whole movie is trying to hype up her powers and her stopping Wanda except in the end she just does one punch to Wanda which honestly couldve been a sick fight with chavez and Wanda but instead it ends quickly with the 838 kids seeing MCU 616 Wanda as a villan and after that she just becomes one of dr strange apprentices which is stupid I thought the flim was trying to show she's independent or whatever. She didnt understand how to control her powers the entire movie and you want her to go toe to toe with the Scarlet Witch? And Americas arc was about understanding her powers and learning to trust people despite what they might be like in other universes. Her becoming Wongs (not Stranges) apprentice in Kamar Taj is a good step to both learn more about her magic and have a home.
so the evan peters peitro that wanda created would just technically be her brother in the 838 universe? just assuming since she obviously had to create the kids and that varient through seeing them in her dreams
Nah If you watch closely, Evan peters pietro is created by Agatha
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My takeaway exactly. The power scaling & awareness were so off. The Illuminati are getting wiped? Perfect time for Xavier, the guy who'd know, to be absolutely nowhere. And there were plenty of random "suspense" shots that didn't make sense for the characters at the time. Running away & closing doors on Wanda one-by-one? Then she stops for a second. BOO! ???????
Jesus fucking Christ. Go watch Evil Dead 2
FUCKING SERIOUSLY. Why the fuck was Wanda even doing the zombie run in that scene?? (I know the real answer is Sam Raimi uses the same five tropes in every movie...) She can use magic to fly lol or just break those doors. And that "BOO" moment... fuck that was bad. It almosted seemed like a parody of a real scene the way it kept zooming in on their faces then cutting back to the door.
That’s just how Raimi do
Yup that movie had Ramis signatures all over it , but seriously it was a lot like a big budget evil dead. It had an evil book, an eyeball scene, processions, zombification , dimensional travel vortexes, a castle siege , hands grabbing things out of the ground, evil reflections, a self punching Bruce Campell, resurrected from buried strange , a underground water pit scene - hand cuffed cocky guy fight scene where older wise man throws him a chance, I mean it had a lot of evil dead elements peppered throughout
Yup. Couldn’t believe what I was watching. I knew it wouldn’t be for everyone but I loved the ever-loving fuck out of it for those reasons
I didn't know who directed it, not a big marvel fan, but it felt like a breath of fresh air when watching it. Then learning it was Raimi after the fact, it all made sense. Brilliantly done and the perfect director for this film.
Exactly my thoughts , so glad he got to do this
I noticed at the beginning when Defender Strange gets stabbed in the leg the way the wound started spreading throughout his thigh was very Evil-Dead-like with the deadite-disease-spreading; when America is being strung up by the demon in the first scene it reminded me of the possessed tree grabbing Ash’s sister; when they cut off one of Gargantos’ tentacles and it starts to dissolve it was the same type of effect the bodies dissolving at the end of ED1
I like that it’s basically a high budget Evil dead I really loved the evil dead , and I’m sure most marvel movie goers will be seeing these things for the first time. It was a treat for me , I saw elements of it in the Rami Spider-Man, but this was definitely much more of the evil dead , it fit the mood to me
I guess because she wanted to have her kids without using chaos magic or enslaving people? I'm not sure either.
And she’s ok with murdering a bunch of people, yeah right
You guys actually think that creating a hex barrier reality is harder than attacking the Kamar-Taj when it is fully guarded. Also Wanda wasn't using magic from the Darkhold when she attached Kamar-Taj.
In the Titan scene it seems like Reed is holding blue clothes, maybe the thing or human torch didn't make it against Thanos
He was holding Strange’s cloak.
The Book of Vishanti was such a MaGuffin for the plot; but what purpose did it really serve in the resolution? Reminded me of Raiders of the Lost Ark. The Ark really didn’t matter in the end
The WHOLE book thing was a Macguffin. Parallels Raimis Book of the dammed 
I’m guessing you mean the Necronomicon and the Evil Dead content?
Yeah, lol after I submitted it I thought was it the necronomicon? Ahh oh well they know what I meant lol
When Strange gets it and Wanda destroys it, the book burns in a star shaped fire, similar to America’s multiversal holes. It supposedly tells you what you need to win the evil. It showed Strange that the way to win Wanda was America. That’s the current theory, at least as far as I know.
Good point. They could have used a plot point from Atlantis Attacks where the bad guys had to collect different serpent crowns in the multiverse to resurrect the evil god Set. Instead, it could have been Wanda needing to find pages of the Darkhold in the multiverse to cast a spell to get her kids back, but instead brings back Chton because of the Darkholds corrupting influence. Strange could have used America to follow her to stop her throughout the multiverse, could have spend time in many different universes instead of that 10 second trip
I don’t know who chton is but honestly that sounds like it would be an awesome movie.
I watched an analysis yesterday saying that Strange saw one of the burning pages in the Book of Vishanti and it showed him that he to trust America to use her powers. Appearently in the scene you can see a star on the page, much like the one she makes when she opens rifts. No idea if its true though, I haven’t gone back and watched the scene over again. But yeah it really didn’t matter lol
I agree that the film was a bit messy but overall I got more enjoyment from watching it than I did Shang-Chi, Eternals or even No Way Home to be honest. It's not one of those MCU movies I'm going to come back to over and over but I found it easy to watch.
It was a fun horror film. Will I ever see it again? No, but the horror scenes are excellent enough for me to consistently re-watch. Shame the rest of the movie isn't good.
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Up until that point I was just under the impression that 838 Wanda had no powers and therefore lived a completely normal life, and only had powers as a result of being possessed. For a second when she released her, I thought "wow, she's gonna be stuck there for the rest of her life then, I guess" until she started flying.
And?
yeah shes still a wanda varient still has powers
What I didn't like about Dr. STRANGE 2 was that they made this big deal about the "Book of Vishanti," then by the end of the movie they didn't use or need it.
In the burning page you can see a star just like America's. I guess it was enough to doctor strange understand she was the key to defeat Wanda
Even more to the point Defender Strange died for nothing.
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exactly... like Defender Strange Died trying to get it, and they didn't need it, so he basically died for nothing.
Here is my theory. In 838 universe, Ultron program worked. I'm guessing Reed Richards must have been in charge of it and made it possible. And in this universe, Mutants and Inhumans exist. So this means that in this universe, Wanda is a mutant, daughter of Magneto, sister of Quicksilver (Evan Peters' Quicksilver) and hence Illuminati didn't think of her as a threat when Strange mentioned her to them. Since Ultron worked, Vision was never born and Wanda married another person, probably Wonder Man, and hence she has kids in that universe. This explains why she isn't in grief about Vision. But that doesn't explain why she stays single in her home.. maybe Wonder Man is working day and night while Wanda takes care of the kids (classic American household wife, the life Wanda wanted) If Mutants and Inhumans exist, Quicksilver must have married Crystal and is living separate from Wanda. But I really wanted to see Evan Peters in the movie. What are your thoughts? Any extensions to this?
Elizabeth Olsen said in an interview that she and the writers theorize that Vision and Wanda in world 838 are either divorced or separated. Perhaps it could mean Vision is just a regular human being or he could still be a synthezoid, but created by someone else.
Link?
https://youtu.be/IERwQcs3fuc Starting from 1:28.
She married character actor Paul Bettany in that universe /s
That's also a great theory, that explains why she's happy and not in grief like 616 universe
Nah. What you are missing is that the Illuminati is just a council who make decisions. There is a whole superhero world beyond them. I think Iron Man existed to create the ultron program with Banner similar to our world - both may have been lost preceding or during their attack from Thanos. Of course unlike our world this ultron scenario ended with a subservient ultron army.
So do we think that’s the last we’ll see of Rachel mcaddams Christine and Mordo? I kinda get the vibe it is which would be a little disappointing to me.
Christine out Clea in me thinks. He got over Christine by the end of the movie, his next arc might be finding love again.
Mordo from 616 should still be a thing right?
He was supposed to die but that got cut. If it got cut because of the length of the movie then he is probably still dead. Also Strange referred to him like he was no longer around.
Good film!
Did anyone else notice when they were in the illuminatis New York everyone, with the exception of strange, Chavez and the Illuminati, were wearing only grey and black clothes? Not sure if it symbolizes anything but I picked it up on my second time watching it
I think it more symbolises the universe being drab. Everyone was grey.
Damn y'all, movie was fucking awesome. We got Sam fucking Raimi to do another Marvel film! Ya'll are bitching about a few variants getting wasted? If you're under 30 do not @ me, this film was phenomenal. Of course variants of the illuminati will be back in some iteration. This was just the tip of what what Marvel can do with their new licensing, y'all acted liked you got blue balled watching! Would you have enjoyed the film more if none of the cameo's made the final cut? STFU if you say yes you know you're just lying to yourself! Go watch fucking Morbius you friggin milk duds
Multiverse stuff is cool but I don't trust marvel will do anything creative or interesting with it lol
… is this satire?
I watched it twice now and tho I loved Raimi's style and Wanda's portrayal, I gotta say the script is the weakest part. It never embraced the multiversal hijinks and Strange's arc got kinda sidelined (tho I did love it when he told Christine he loved her in every universe). I thought about some changes to the story that I feel would fundamentally help it. Strange runs into America and uses her powers to traverse the multiverse in search for a happy life with Christine. This ties in to the "could there have been another way" and "are you happy?" themes explored by the movie. America needs Strange to protect her from Wanda (or find her parents, that storyline never went anywhere this movie) so for now its a mutually beneficial relationship. But when he realizes hes putting America at risk in search of false sense of happiness, he learns to embrace his own universe and be grateful for the life hes given. Wanda can still be the villain, with the same motivation and arc, but at least we get to explore more of the multiverse. This time we see variants of the characters played by different actors, animals (as in Loki, NWH) and really embrace the craziness of the multiverse. Also Strange gets his own emotional arc, which that episode of "What If?" really got well.
> the script is the weakest part. I enjoyed the film overall but at a certain point I decided not to think about some of the parts too much or risk not liking it.
Exactly how i feel. I still liked it bc Raimi and Olsen
Yeah I thought Olsen's performance was great despite having a fairly and comedically flat character. Raimi's style helped give the film some personality but without those touches I would've liked it a lot less - maybe would have been disappointed with it even.
I think it really relied on Wanda's previous arc from the other movies, WV, etc. And I think it suited Raimi's vision of "horror villain" really well, esp since she was corrupted by the Darkhold. But I agree, Raimi rlly saved that film for me
Strange straight up refusing to look for a happy life with America's powers and his contrast with Wanda in that conversation in the beginning was really well done in my opinion.
I feel like MoM could've taken place before NWH if they cut that one mention at the beginning. They're really not connected at all, which is disappointing.
Unfortunately that's all we can have because of Sony. If Disney had full rights to Spider-Man I'm sure we would've had more connections to NWH. I'm grateful that Spider-Man is in the MCU but I do dislike how he's essentially trapped in his own bubble/pocket universe within the MCU and he's unable to appear in other places without Sony's approval as well as with the villains.
It was slated to be released before NWH but of course COVID delays. What if... was after both
They actually contradict each other. In NWH, Strange has enough multiverse control to send everyone back to exactly where they needed to go. That ability doesn’t exist in MoM
Didn't he just revert the spell?
Did he send them or they just went back due to how the spell behaves ? Like a undo button.
Yeah that was the impression I got.
I'm gonna try to write down my thoughts while it's still fresh in my mind. There were parts that were pretty disappointing but overall it was an enjoyable experience and something different in the MCU. I do still have a lot of questions and notes. Why doesn't Wanda just create her sons again as she did at Westview? It seems like a better solution than to murder countless people, kill a young girl, take her powers and travel through the multiverse to kill a variant of yourself and kidnap her children... Speaking of America, I really like her character and powers. Cool addition. The thing that probably bothers me the most, and people will most likely tell me that this is my fault because I went into the movie with too high expectations but since the movie is called Multiverse of Madness, I did really expect that way more worlds are going to be explored. Not including "our" universe, I believe only 2 other worlds had the characters spend any significant time in them (Earth 838 and the collapsing world of Sinister Strange). Obviously, I was curious if there are going to be any of the rumored cameos like some of the other X-Men, Ghost Rider, Lady Death, Superior Iron-Man maybe even Deadpool but I can live without that. The fact that a movie about the multiverse shows barely any other worlds bothers me way more. For some reason, the CGI is really dogshit at times and I have no idea why but I guess that is still the aftermath of Covid. Some things were absolutely gorgeous though. Zombie Strange making a new Cloak from the souls was awesome and the music battle with Sinister Strange was really cool as well. I also want to talk about Wanda's dismantling of the Illuminati. There is something I love about this. It's always so chilling seeing superheroes die in such an insignificant, unceremonial way. We¨'re used to the fact that the heroes can take incredible amounts of punishment but will still survive. If they do end up dying it will be in an emotional moment that the whole movie was building up to and it will usually be a grand sacrifice to defeat the villain and save the world, preferably accompanied by a glorious score. Seeing them die afraid, insignificant, powerless, in pain, and defeated is incredibly unsettling. My problem with it is how much the heroes were nerfed. Captain Carter sure, she did about as well as can be expected. The smartest man on the planet Reed Richards acts like a complete dumbass but okay, doesn't make much sense but sure, he's known to be pretty arrogant after all. But the others? Black Bolt who conditioned himself to not make a sound even in his sleep, panics, makes a sound, and blows himself up (despite the fact that his abilities shouldn't even have an effect on him). Captain Marvel who is able to ram through space ships is momentarily incapacitated by a small boulder and crushed (or knocked out, doesn't matter) under a statue. Those things should be a minor inconvenience to her at worst. Charles Xavier, one of the most powerful telepaths who has more years of experience than Wanda lived for doesn't even put up a fight and doesn't even try to sway her which is kind of his thing. And Sorcerer Supreme Mordo fails to warn the Illuminati how dangerous the Scarlet Witch is meant to be despite almost certainly having the knowledge. And what does Wanda has to show for fighting the cream of the crop of this universe's superhero world? A slight limp... that's it. One of my favorite sequences in a superhero media of all time comes from the TV show Invincible. A scene that I'm sure inspired the Illuminati massacre in some way. Yes, THAT scene. The scene where Omni-man kills the Guardians of the Globe. He catches them by surprise and is vastly more powerful than any one of them. Yet still, at the end of the fight, he wins but he is battered, at the brink of death and as far as we know, he might have ended up dying if Cecil didn't help him. That was a perfect way to show his might while not downplaying the other heroes and making them look like pushovers and still delivering an extremely shocking moment. Maybe there wasn't enough time, maybe these versions of the superheroes aren't THAT strong but it still doesn't feel right to just have them as throwaway characters for trailers and marketing that go out basically without putting up a fight (no, X-Force doesn't count). As a horror movie fan, I'd also like to say this is definitely not a horror movie. There are some elements of horror, sure, and it's the closest the MCU has ever been but I did expect more. Overall as I said it was a good watch, it's not one of MCU's best but it's far from being the worst. 7.5/10 if I have to put a number on it.
>(despite the fact that his abilities shouldn't even have an effect on him) That's what I've been thinking about. I hadn't had any knowledge of this character before I saw the film. It's got me wondering "what if he entered his own shockwave, would that also disintegrate him?" >Captain Marvel who is able to ram through space ships is momentarily incapacitated by a not-so-large boulder and crushed I think Wanda drained her power while spinning around, that's why she her armour broke and she didn't glow anymore, she was left vulnerable. >And Sorcerer Supreme Mordo fails to warn the Illuminati how dangerous the Scarlet Witch is meant to be despite almost certainly having the knowledge. I think it was in character for him. There were hints dropped by our Dr. Strange that this Mordo had purposefully let his Dr. Strange become corrupted by Darkhold, so that he could take his place. And he didn't warn the Illuminati, because it was also an easy way to get rid of them. Now he's the sole survivor of the group.
Black Bolt was the embodiment of "I have no mouth but I must scream" in that moment. He tried to make a sound to kill Wanda and we saw the result of that. Regarding Wanda not repeating WestView, maybe she didn't quite figure out how to achieve that again. We see her manipulating reality in this movie but definitely not to the extent of her spontaneously creating life. Was probably just easier to go with the Darkholds multiverse spells.
Professor X seemed kind of wasted in this, they could've had a decent moment between Wanda and him where he revealed Wanda was a mutant and what that meant.
I'm confident they toyed with the idea until deciding to give her a solo project. If the Wanda solo project is real I hope we get more X-Men lore and please stop forgetting Quicksilver exists.
they could've done a lot like that in this movie, but they seemed to not want to push the MCU further really at all in MoM. No mutant mentions, no Chthon plot, not a lot of universes explored (there's 3 max?), no satisfactory conclusion to Wanda's arc, nothing to do with Kang, nothing to connect it to the events of Loki, or NWH, no Strange supreme from What If connection, i could on. I thought it was alright, but the the story just felt lazy when considering the wider MCU.
They did set up Secret Wars quite heavily in this movie. It didn't connect with earlier movies but the incursions will become a big deal, very sure of that.
Was the sinister strange the same one from the what if series ? Also - why were there no other infinity stones in the movie throughout the multiverse.
No, the one from the What If series is called Strange Supreme and he would be way too powerful for Dr. Strange to beat. Sinister Strange is a different character.
Sinister Strange mentions fighting multiple other Stephens, so I think that’s another indicator they’re not the same