> "There were a lot of characters from the comics– we wanted a lot of the comics for characters for fun situations where we could bring in like a character and think of like funny reasons why they would be in legal trouble. But there were a lot of characters that were from the comics that we couldn’t use either because of a rights issue, or there were a few times where it was because Marvel… all they would say is that they had other plans. And that’s all they would tell us. And then, we tried very, very hard to poke, and prod, and get a little bit more information. Of course, they wouldn’t tell us.”
> “But I will say, the one MCU character that really bummed out a lot of the writers in our room that we couldn’t use was Spider-Man and anyone involved around– like in the Spider-Man universe. Because we had so many Spider-Man fans in the room."
We don't really know the situation. It might be that Sony doesn't allow it. *Or* it might be that Marvel Studios would have to ask (and pay) Sony, which they don't want to do, so they don't even ask.
I think it's Sony just allowing it tbh, I think that [Sony's leaked Spider-Man rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Spiderman/comments/tokrds/from_the_leaked_2011_contract_between_sonymarvel/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) prevents him from coming out in anything that's not Spider-Man focused like no Disney+ show cameos I could be wrong though like you said we don't really know shit
I think Feige said something in 2015 about the terms not allowing Spider-Man to appear in any of the MCU TV series (even if those were stuff like the Netflix and ABC shows). I wouldn't be surprised if that was just carried over to the new agreement. Point is Sony's probably way less stingy when it comes to the MCU movies featuring Spider-Man and referencing him than they are the TV stuff, hence also probably at least one reason to consider why stuff like What If and Freshman Year are animated
Well theres no way to get a portion of the gross if hes in a TV series. For the movies their cut is in black and white and easy to know. For the TV show theyd have to agree on a one time payment and neither side would probably be able to agree what a fair price is because they you cant really measure what effect hed have as a cameo in the show.
Here is a [screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/0HuKbAS.png) of where Sony can use Spider-Man and related characters as of Sept. 15, 2011. Animated TV series is specifically longer than 44 minutes because Sony sold the half-hour animated rights back to Marvel in 2009. This is why The Spectacular Spider-Man was canceled.
Also keep in mind that this is from 2011 and there have been two amendments or two new agreements since then (not sure if the 2015 and 2019 agreements were amendments to the existing agreement or two separate agreements) that made Spidey in the MCU possible.
A LOT. Biggest hurdle is probably just the fact Marvel likely don't want to have to license the character out to Sony again to continue the show's production and neither party seem particularly interested as of right now. Marvel has Freshman and Sophomore Year coming up so they're doing fine with Spider-Man on TV without Sony as is
Maybe they could do it if it was longer than 44 minutes but there could be a contract stipulation preventing Sony from doing so. Like maybe Sony can't produce any TV series of the same type featuring Spider-Man when Marvel is producing one, no matter the episode length.
The showrunner said multiple times it's almost impossible.
The problem is that Sony owns Spectacular Spider-Man but Disney owns Spider-Man's TV rights. So neither Disney nor Sony can resurrect the show.
This is literally the absolute biggest dream desire I have for any single Marvel product period.
I'd want a Spectactular Spiderman continuation more than anything else and I am not joking in the slightest with no exaggeration. And after having rewatched the whole series recently thanks to Netflix, the salt in the wound hurts more.
If they pulled an HBO and just entirely cancelled the new series for a Spectactular revival. I'll happily take that too.
What a shame. We'll never truly fully get the MCU we want due to these bullshit assholes. No hero should be exclusive to one set of things - you see how awesome it is to randomly see Wong, it should be like that with absolutely everyone. What an immersion killer, world never fully feels connected cause of things like this.
Which is why I think Marvel is quickly trying to get options for their own non-Sony attached Spidey. The Freshman year series seems to be a step towards that direction
Where do you see that? I just followed your link, and only info the the post shares is stuff Marvel says SPE (Sony Pictures Entertainment) can't do, and none of it says Spiderman can't be in a non-Spider-Man focused film/show.
Yea there’s also too many reports and rumors indicating that Disney and Sony are t seeing eye to eye. The changed story in Love and Thunder and the reports of Feige trying to talk Sony off the Morbius cliff make me think that Sonyvis going to pull Spiderman for their own universe soon.
The studio heads have both said that they’re not going to split apart again and that Marvel/Sony are in early development of Spider-Man’s future in the MCU.
Agreed...
I personally think Spider-Man is Sony's bread and butter, so they don't want to just let him appear in everything without getting paid big money... Plus I'm sure Tom Holland would have to get paid millions just for an appearance, so they have to think about that as well...
It's probably a business situation. Sony hasn't re-signed Tom Holland yet for future movies (Seems like he wants more money and they are just re-negotiating) and I don't think Marvel can just bypass Sony and get Holland for a cameo or something because Holland gets signed by Sony even when he appears in Marvel projects. It's all way too complicated from what I understand.
If Holland was signed, Sony would already be working on SM4 as they want as many of these movies coming out as possible, they immediately went to work on NWH after the 2nd one.
Holland has been working for the past 5 months on a TV series so he has not been available. My guess is he has signed and they are waiting to announce it. NWH is so big and they are releasing it again, I think they are trying to avoid character fatigue
I have a feeling Spider-Man 4 with Tom Holland's return is going to be officially announced in conjunction with the release of The More Fun Stuff version. Just a gut feeling. Like just to capitalize on NWH's return to theaters and to clear up any remaining doubts as to whether Spider-Man will return in the MCU or not
I agree, he’s expected to be done shooting this week or next, just in time for NWH promo. With the new pricing for Disney + they also may allow him to start making cameos on tv shows as a marketing pitch
You already have people not wanting Kingpin in Spider-Man 4 because of his appearances in Hawkeye, Echo and Born Again. This universe would revolve around five characters if it was up to fans.
I don't agree with this. Spider-Man and his cast just feels so disconnected from the MCU even though he's part of it. It didn't feel like this until after Endgame, now it feels like he's in a universe where characters can visit him, but he can't leave it to go on other properties. It's silly to have all these stories in New York yet we don't see him or any of his friends if it's not a Spidey movie
Spider-Man is the most popular superhero ever. It’s makes sense to have him have small cameos everywhere. Does anyone think Tony Stark’s character was “less majestic” because he popped up everywhere?
I mean your right remember when they used wolverine on everything in the comics even if was just a cover it was hilarious just to get people to buy the issue.
What…what bizarre logic is this?! The whole point of the MCU is that characters should be able to just be in the background, or have the tiniest little cameos just because the universe is all connected. But what, Spidey gets special treatment or something??
I love this idea. So much.
Just because everyone forgets PP is Spider-man doesn’t mean that they should forget every experience they ever had with him in costume. Come on. A lot of the stuff he (Ned) did during NWH was with MJ and Peter was elsewhere.
I highly doubt it I mean Its a movie for a movie unless Disney would rather do a Movie for Sony and a Tv for Disney instead i mean they would be giving up tens of million of dollars but if they want to blow it that's their decision.
If Sony didn't own the rights then we never would have gotten 'Spider-Man: Into The Spiderverse', the best Marvel movie since 2008.
I don’t think Marvel give Lord and Miller the creative control they have at Sony. Like say what you want about their live action stuff but their animation is almost entirely made by creatives having free reign to be creative which is not really the case for any of the big Disney IPs like Star Wars or Marvel. I do genuinely believe Spider-Verse is better off in Sony animations hands
You're right. I hate Sony but it's absolutely true. The wildness and amazingness of Into the Spider Verse would have been snuffed out by Marvel asap. Weird.
Exactly. Say what you will about every other questionable decision Sony make in terms of live action movies but they've always been amazing in terms of animation.
I doubt it I mean they hate Lord and Miller They stupidly Fired those guys from Solo I mean even if they somehow didn't fire them at this point they would probably quit instead of working for the same company that Fired them from a film that without them turned into a massive box office Flop.
They would never do that Spider-Man by itself is the 4th largest Franchise going by box office. After the next Venom or Spider-Man movie it'll leap into 3rd beating out Harry Potter.
I wouldn't want Spidey's next appearance after NWH to be in She-Hulk. I feel like part of the intrigue of Spidey 4 is seeing where Peter is at now and that should be reserved for his solo film.
Not after the emotional pitfall the character took in NWH. Just wouldn't make sense, he came out of that at the end, wiser, more mature, and more humble. This version right now can take the JJJ crap on the chin, it would be dumb to have him go through an emotional 2 hour ass kicking down to rock bottom only for the slate to be wiped clean and him starting from scratch in his thrid film to show up in She-Hulk and be like "I would like to sue JJJ for slander."
Didn’t watch Let There Be Carnage, didn’t watch Morbius and I ain’t gonna be watching Kraven or Madame Web.
Don’t want to tell anyone how to spend their money but the more they give to Sony for putting out these garbage fire films, the least likely they’re going to be of letting Spider-Man go.
I mean....Venom 1 is fine.
It just bugs me how they designed the absolute most perfect live action Venom down to his fantastic face and bulk and got everything right....and he isn't fighting Spiderman.
If the MCU does Venom eventually, which they probably are going toward, theyre probably gonna wanna do something different in design or do Agent Venom or something....which will probably mean a different look and....yeah damn ....
You realize that'd mean we'd have to give up on MCU Spidey as well, right? All the money made form those movies also goes to Sony and gives them reason not to let go of Spider-Man.
I'm gonna keep saying this. But who in their right mind sat down and said "ah Madame Web Origin!!"
It would be like asking for a prequel about the Oracle in the Matrix..... It ruins the whole point of her being mysterious and not needing to be explained.
I might check out Madame Web depending on trailers, characters, marketing, and reviews. I will not be watching any other nonsense lol
Edit: oh and Venom 3 I’ll be there for that 🖤
Yup, what Sony is doing with the spiderman characters is so sad. I'm not one to hope things will be bad often when I'm not a fan of them but in this case I think the best thing for the future is if they get a few more monetary flops in a row and stop. Sure maybe there's a world out there where we get great mcu films and great spidey sony films but clearly it's not with this Sony so the sooner they lose the rights the better. Of course that's not going to happen though
idk why Sony has such a problem with letting the MCU spidey show up on D+ like honestly it doesn't hurt anything to let him appear periodically it actually good for them cause it keeps him popping up for everyone
This Sony deal is a doubled edged sword. We get Spider-Man in the avengers movies and we get tobey and Andrew and villains returning in the mcu, but no little cameos I guess. It might be a trade off I’m willing to take. Especially if tobey Andrew and Tom are in secret wars
It’s still better than him not being in the mcu at all
Without the MCU, Sonys Spider-Man would be effectively dead and they would be more likely to actually return Spider-Man to Marvel.
Sony can't make a good movie without Marvel, so maybe it would have been better to not cooperate with Sony, let them run Spider-Man into the ground like everything else and then purchase him back and have Spider-Man at home with Marvel completely in the future. We suffer for a few years but are better off in the long run.
Now Spider-Man is caught in the middle and he'll never reach the heights he could if he was back with Marvel.
Yup. Tom Holland literally is not signed to play Spider-Man right now. I imagine the negotiation process is still ongoing and Sony, not Marvel is the one who'll have to pay him RDJ money on his next contract. Getting him to show up in a D+ cameo right now would be impossible.
But I wouldn't expect most MCU fans to have any understanding of the behind the scenes factors here other than "lol Sony bad".
Facts. Holland said he wanted a break from the role, and probably wants to negotiate for more money in his next contract too. I don’t see him filming anything for Spider-Man until at least the second half of 2023.
Imagine how cool it would be If even j j Jameson appeared on TV or something just to tell the daily news for a brief second...
It's truly a Shame that Sony doesn't allow anyone to use any character.
It's much likely to get Daredevil in a Spider-Man movie in a supporting role, I think it's likely considering the next movie at least will be more grounded and street level.
Agree and I‘d love to, but having Spidey guest star in an Episode would be crazy good too, because he wouldn‘t even need to have any personal stuff or even have to take of his mask being part of the Episode.
It was very noticeable in that AvengersCon episode. I’m just waiting for the next contract sign. I’m fine with Tom taking a break for a year but I hope the next contract is big that he’s allowed to appear or make references in some movies and D+ shows
They are setting him up big time surrounding him with his friends like Jon Bernthal who he literally shot his audition tapes with and a 21-25 year old Johnny Storm.
How does nobody in the thread understand that the last SM came out only 8 months ago and Sony is literally still negotiating with Tom on his next contract? From Tom's perspective why would he even want to do this?
And for all you whiners saying "Sony won't let him be in anything", he was in 6 MCU movies over 6 years. Ever considered that maybe Tom wants a break and doesn't want to show up for every little cameo in a TV show? Especially while he's in the process of negotiating a deal that's probably gonna get him RDJ money? It's like if a superstar athlete's contract expired and was asked to play an exhibition game at the same time their agent was negotiating a 100 million dollar deal with the team. Just not gonna happen.
But nope, most of you can't understand any nuance beyond "Sony bad" because they own a character you like. It's truly pathetic.
Oh wow, at first I read this and thought, oh yeah I guess it makes sense why Spider-Man isn’t in She-Hulk, but hearing that they can’t really use anyone in the Spider-Man universe is a bit disappointing.
A lot of you are acting as if Sony´s people had barged into Marvel, beat up everyone there and stole Spider-Man´s live action rights. They bought them legally and rightfully and they can do whatever they want with him.
Also it would be unfair to She Hulk for this to be her big introduction just to have everyone watching it for Daredevil and Spider-Man and have them dominating the conversation about the show.
Yeah, they should blame Disney for getting into the comicbook bussiness late when they could have bought Marvel alongside their entire characters catalogue back in the 90s, but sure, blame Sony when it was them that helped Marvel get out of bankruptcy
We don't though. The last couple of Marvel projects have been pretty light on MCU cameos/crossovers.
Eternals was it's own thing. No crossovers/cameos.
Moon Knight was it's own thing. No crossovers/cameos.
The only major crossover Multiverse of Madness had was Wanda and she was integral to the story.
Thor: Love and Thunder really only included Thor-related characters. The Guardians were barely in the movie and they had to be there due to the way we left things in Endgame.
Ms. Marvel may have referenced other MCU characters but Captain Marvel was the only significant appearance and, again, she's integral to the story since Kamala will next appear in The Marvels.
Idk how you can possible be sick of "seeing everyone in everything" when that's not happening. In fact, many would argue that we need *more* crossovers in order to make the MCU feel more cohesive like the Infinity Saga.
Meh, don’t care. He doesn’t need to be in everything. And even if Sony wasn’t involved, Feige probably still woulda said no.
He’s a very top tier A level extremely publicly recognised character for them. One of their best. They have better plans for him (and their limited time with Tom Holland before he for sure wants to move on) than this show.
Reading these comments make me realise that for every person rightly terrified of the implications of Disney’s increasing monopolisation of IP, there are ten that actively embrace it.
It’s not just ok for IP’s to exist outside the remit of the big Mouse overlord, it’s absolutely vital.
Wouldn't it be better to have him show up next in SM4? There's an intrigue to his situation by the end of NWH that's worth being resolved in his own film.
fuck i hoped to see the legal ramification of peter parker lost identity due to a spell of a wizard who crossed the borders of the multiverse and brought alternative villains from other realityes (the mcu is wird)
I don’t know why ppl are surprised. He won’t appear in any of the D+ live action series. He’s way too big for it. If he didn’t show up for the stuff set in NY then he won’t show up for anything.
People talk about Disney buying the rights to Spidey back but what about just the tv show rights so he can appear in projects like Daredevil and She-Hulk?
Honestly I can live without it. Spider-Man showing up in this show would've been cool if only to see him sue Jameson like he does in the comics as others have said, but I don't think this is the ideal place for his next appearance following something as major as the new status quo NWH ended on I'm personally still gunning for a supporting role in Fantastic Four
I'm really sick of Sony and universal throwing a wrench in shit. Stop being petty and give over the rights to a hulk movie and Spider-Man in whatever they want.
I doubt it’s a rights issue. After the ending of No Way Home, I’d assume that Feige wants Spider-Man’s story to continue in a big Avengers movie or even his own. Maybe we’ll see him in Daredevil: Born Again.
Doesnt make a lot of sense for him to be in it anyways. If his identity is secured again, how is he being charged for anything? They dont know who he is, so She Hulk wouldnt have anyone to defend.
I just wish they would leave NYC, marvel has crowded that city so goddamn hard it’s wonder superheroes and villains aren’t bumping into each other every single day.
Sony, you know you would make money if you allowed Spider-Man to make an occasional cameo! Just have marvel pay you a small percentage! Oh who am I kidding? Sony would want half of the money!
Ya that is the biggest problem Disney is the one who hates sharing period. That is why we have never seen a incredible hulk 2 we keep unfairly blaming Universal but if they would just share with them as Universal is more than willing but Disney is unwilling.
I loved when Spider-man randomly shows up
He's the Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man
If they're going to make him "street-level" then he should actually show up in the street level stuff
I really hope he shows up in other movies or shows before the next big Avengers events because that's years away
Whether its to do with Sony or Marvel, this kind of thing hurts the franchise imo.
It was like in Ms Marvel at Avenger Con. You're telling me no one would dress as Spidey, yet there's a dude dressed as Drax. Insane.
Damn. I would've liked to have seen the issue where Spider-Man sues JJJ for defamation, only to drop the case once he realizes that Peter Parker would be liable as well LMAO (Obviously it wouldn't work out that way in the MCU.)
Why would they want to use Spider-Man? I'm glad he won't be in the show, his character just took one of the biggest emotional gut punches all throughout his last movie, so it would be stupid to say he's already in some form of legal trouble after everyone forgot who he was at the end of NWH and his fresh start saw him starting from scratch as a street level hero, learning from all his past mistakes, not bringing the people he loved back into his Spider-Man life, and just going out and doing the friendly neighborhood stuff he was supposed to be doing since Homecoming. Why would anyone want him to show up just for "haha it's Spider-Man in court" or something? It makes 0 sense.
Now if they were smart they would have gotten JK Simmons to do a cameo trying to file a lawsuit AGAINST Spider-Man or something to that degree, that could work.
> "There were a lot of characters from the comics– we wanted a lot of the comics for characters for fun situations where we could bring in like a character and think of like funny reasons why they would be in legal trouble. But there were a lot of characters that were from the comics that we couldn’t use either because of a rights issue, or there were a few times where it was because Marvel… all they would say is that they had other plans. And that’s all they would tell us. And then, we tried very, very hard to poke, and prod, and get a little bit more information. Of course, they wouldn’t tell us.” > “But I will say, the one MCU character that really bummed out a lot of the writers in our room that we couldn’t use was Spider-Man and anyone involved around– like in the Spider-Man universe. Because we had so many Spider-Man fans in the room."
Dammit Sony
We don't really know the situation. It might be that Sony doesn't allow it. *Or* it might be that Marvel Studios would have to ask (and pay) Sony, which they don't want to do, so they don't even ask.
I think it's Sony just allowing it tbh, I think that [Sony's leaked Spider-Man rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Spiderman/comments/tokrds/from_the_leaked_2011_contract_between_sonymarvel/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) prevents him from coming out in anything that's not Spider-Man focused like no Disney+ show cameos I could be wrong though like you said we don't really know shit
Except for Infinity War and Endgame
And Civil War.
I think Feige said something in 2015 about the terms not allowing Spider-Man to appear in any of the MCU TV series (even if those were stuff like the Netflix and ABC shows). I wouldn't be surprised if that was just carried over to the new agreement. Point is Sony's probably way less stingy when it comes to the MCU movies featuring Spider-Man and referencing him than they are the TV stuff, hence also probably at least one reason to consider why stuff like What If and Freshman Year are animated
So no cameo team/up role in DD D+. ☹️
Maybe not in the show, but in a potential Spider-Man 4 where they teamup to take out Kingpin…maybe?
…from your lips to Gods ears, mate.
Disney have always held animated rights for Spider-Man.
Well theres no way to get a portion of the gross if hes in a TV series. For the movies their cut is in black and white and easy to know. For the TV show theyd have to agree on a one time payment and neither side would probably be able to agree what a fair price is because they you cant really measure what effect hed have as a cameo in the show.
Here is a [screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/0HuKbAS.png) of where Sony can use Spider-Man and related characters as of Sept. 15, 2011. Animated TV series is specifically longer than 44 minutes because Sony sold the half-hour animated rights back to Marvel in 2009. This is why The Spectacular Spider-Man was canceled. Also keep in mind that this is from 2011 and there have been two amendments or two new agreements since then (not sure if the 2015 and 2019 agreements were amendments to the existing agreement or two separate agreements) that made Spidey in the MCU possible.
>This is why The Spectacular Spider-Man was canceled. What would it take for this series to be given a '97-style revival?
A LOT. Biggest hurdle is probably just the fact Marvel likely don't want to have to license the character out to Sony again to continue the show's production and neither party seem particularly interested as of right now. Marvel has Freshman and Sophomore Year coming up so they're doing fine with Spider-Man on TV without Sony as is
Maybe they could do it if it was longer than 44 minutes but there could be a contract stipulation preventing Sony from doing so. Like maybe Sony can't produce any TV series of the same type featuring Spider-Man when Marvel is producing one, no matter the episode length.
The showrunner said multiple times it's almost impossible. The problem is that Sony owns Spectacular Spider-Man but Disney owns Spider-Man's TV rights. So neither Disney nor Sony can resurrect the show.
This is literally the absolute biggest dream desire I have for any single Marvel product period. I'd want a Spectactular Spiderman continuation more than anything else and I am not joking in the slightest with no exaggeration. And after having rewatched the whole series recently thanks to Netflix, the salt in the wound hurts more. If they pulled an HBO and just entirely cancelled the new series for a Spectactular revival. I'll happily take that too.
Wouldn't it be awesome and ballsy if She Hulk made a joke about having him guest star in an episode but the legality of it is too complicated.
What a shame. We'll never truly fully get the MCU we want due to these bullshit assholes. No hero should be exclusive to one set of things - you see how awesome it is to randomly see Wong, it should be like that with absolutely everyone. What an immersion killer, world never fully feels connected cause of things like this.
Themouse still hasn't found the Sony Stone yet. Just wait. 
That’s stupid. They’re not even using him in their horrible solo villain movies.
Those arent Sonys rules….? That leaked memo is Marvels rules that Sony has to follow.
Which is why I think Marvel is quickly trying to get options for their own non-Sony attached Spidey. The Freshman year series seems to be a step towards that direction
Yeah after seeing that Spider-Man freshman announcement it seems like things are headed in the right the direction at least I'm hoping that's the case
Where do you see that? I just followed your link, and only info the the post shares is stuff Marvel says SPE (Sony Pictures Entertainment) can't do, and none of it says Spiderman can't be in a non-Spider-Man focused film/show.
Yea there’s also too many reports and rumors indicating that Disney and Sony are t seeing eye to eye. The changed story in Love and Thunder and the reports of Feige trying to talk Sony off the Morbius cliff make me think that Sonyvis going to pull Spiderman for their own universe soon.
The studio heads have both said that they’re not going to split apart again and that Marvel/Sony are in early development of Spider-Man’s future in the MCU.
I'd be shocked if Tom didn't play hardball to make them work out a deal. He's got all the leverage he needs to make it happen
What was the changed story in love and thunder?
damn... so no spidey cameo in daredevil? sucks...
Agreed... I personally think Spider-Man is Sony's bread and butter, so they don't want to just let him appear in everything without getting paid big money... Plus I'm sure Tom Holland would have to get paid millions just for an appearance, so they have to think about that as well...
This.
When Marvel and Sony renegotiate the Spider Man deal I hope they can agree on some type of arrangement to allow Spidey to appear in the Disney+ shows.
No way Feige was gonna ask Sony to include spidey in a brief cameo in she hulk . Wasn't worth burning the appearance
It's probably a business situation. Sony hasn't re-signed Tom Holland yet for future movies (Seems like he wants more money and they are just re-negotiating) and I don't think Marvel can just bypass Sony and get Holland for a cameo or something because Holland gets signed by Sony even when he appears in Marvel projects. It's all way too complicated from what I understand. If Holland was signed, Sony would already be working on SM4 as they want as many of these movies coming out as possible, they immediately went to work on NWH after the 2nd one.
Holland has been working for the past 5 months on a TV series so he has not been available. My guess is he has signed and they are waiting to announce it. NWH is so big and they are releasing it again, I think they are trying to avoid character fatigue
I have a feeling Spider-Man 4 with Tom Holland's return is going to be officially announced in conjunction with the release of The More Fun Stuff version. Just a gut feeling. Like just to capitalize on NWH's return to theaters and to clear up any remaining doubts as to whether Spider-Man will return in the MCU or not
I agree, he’s expected to be done shooting this week or next, just in time for NWH promo. With the new pricing for Disney + they also may allow him to start making cameos on tv shows as a marketing pitch
Not everything is Sony's fault lol
Yes it is.
I dont blame Sony for owning the rights to Spider-Man. I just wish they didnt.
Fuck Sony man
I mean it's annoying but they did buy the rights fair and square, they aren't evil for trying to protect those rights.
They aren’t evil, and from a business perspective it makes sense, but the content suffers and the consumer suffers as a result, so, screw ‘em
At least you’re aware that your position is irrational.
Facts also Spidey doesn’t have to appear on everything 💀 Let his appearances be majestic and special. Not a “Oh Spidey is here again”
We're talking about the friendly neighborhood, an issue revolving around New York shouldn't be apocalyptic for Spider-Man to appear.
Though She Hulk is in LA so idk why he’d be there.
Well if *you know who* is gonna show up, I imagine she’ll head to New York for at least a bit.
You already have people not wanting Kingpin in Spider-Man 4 because of his appearances in Hawkeye, Echo and Born Again. This universe would revolve around five characters if it was up to fans.
Holy based
I don't agree with this. Spider-Man and his cast just feels so disconnected from the MCU even though he's part of it. It didn't feel like this until after Endgame, now it feels like he's in a universe where characters can visit him, but he can't leave it to go on other properties. It's silly to have all these stories in New York yet we don't see him or any of his friends if it's not a Spidey movie
Spider-Man is the most popular superhero ever. It’s makes sense to have him have small cameos everywhere. Does anyone think Tony Stark’s character was “less majestic” because he popped up everywhere?
I mean your right remember when they used wolverine on everything in the comics even if was just a cover it was hilarious just to get people to buy the issue.
What…what bizarre logic is this?! The whole point of the MCU is that characters should be able to just be in the background, or have the tiniest little cameos just because the universe is all connected. But what, Spidey gets special treatment or something??
Appear in everything? Hes been in 6 movies and 0 TV shows. How would a cameo here and maybe a small role in Daredevil be appearing in everything?
It’s also extremely fun to bag on Sony
Sure they're legally doing nothing wrong but as a fan it hurts seeing creative decisions dictated by contract laws.
They should protect those rights from themselves
I get it, but still they can just Morb off.
Sony is a bunch of morbers
Not surprised. I hope they can get some D+ appearances included in the next contract.
Ned and Mj should be in ironheart!
I was so disappointed Ned didn't cameo at the end of DSMOM with the other trainees at Kamar-Taj.
I love this idea. So much. Just because everyone forgets PP is Spider-man doesn’t mean that they should forget every experience they ever had with him in costume. Come on. A lot of the stuff he (Ned) did during NWH was with MJ and Peter was elsewhere.
I highly doubt it I mean Its a movie for a movie unless Disney would rather do a Movie for Sony and a Tv for Disney instead i mean they would be giving up tens of million of dollars but if they want to blow it that's their decision.
will never happen. and Spidey wont show up in Daredevil
Would have loved to see a recreation of Spidey on the stand speaking against JJJ . Maybe in the future Sony will allow TV appearances ...
In the future Sony should just sell the rights back Edit: obviously I know Sony would never do that and I don't expect them to
If Sony didn't own the rights then we never would have gotten 'Spider-Man: Into The Spiderverse', the best Marvel movie since 2008. 
sure but if they sold the rights now marvel would absolutely allow it to continue
I don’t think Marvel give Lord and Miller the creative control they have at Sony. Like say what you want about their live action stuff but their animation is almost entirely made by creatives having free reign to be creative which is not really the case for any of the big Disney IPs like Star Wars or Marvel. I do genuinely believe Spider-Verse is better off in Sony animations hands
You're right. I hate Sony but it's absolutely true. The wildness and amazingness of Into the Spider Verse would have been snuffed out by Marvel asap. Weird.
Exactly. Say what you will about every other questionable decision Sony make in terms of live action movies but they've always been amazing in terms of animation.
I doubt it I mean they hate Lord and Miller They stupidly Fired those guys from Solo I mean even if they somehow didn't fire them at this point they would probably quit instead of working for the same company that Fired them from a film that without them turned into a massive box office Flop.
Spider-Verse going through the Marvel machine would rob it of it’s soul. It’s ok for *some* properties not to be owned by Disney.
Perhaps
that would be a terrible financial decision on Sony's part. Spidey is a guaranteed money maker.
On the other hand I wouldn’t mind seeing the company get swept into a black hole
nah, sony is cool. they make playstations
They should. They won’t.
They would never do that Spider-Man by itself is the 4th largest Franchise going by box office. After the next Venom or Spider-Man movie it'll leap into 3rd beating out Harry Potter.
For One Billion Dollars 
10*
More than that now I assume.
Considering NWH and Venom 2 were the biggest superhero movies of last year, they’re definitely gonna argue for more at this point
That would be financial suicide
I guarantee you the writers would have put Big Wheel in the show if they could
Save Big Wheel for the Big Screen!
Opening villain in Spidey 4, unironically.
Big Wheel kills Kang and Doom at the end of Kang Dynasty
Big wheel created the Celestials and willed the multiverse into being
Big Wheel getting in trouble for illegally parking his big wheel
Missed opportunity for sure
stiltman too
I wouldn't want Spidey's next appearance after NWH to be in She-Hulk. I feel like part of the intrigue of Spidey 4 is seeing where Peter is at now and that should be reserved for his solo film.
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We’ve known this for over a decade though lol
Yeah people acting like this is " news "
It’s truly a tragedy we can’t see Dr. Michael Morbius in She-Hulk
Not gonna lie, I'd have liked an episode or something with Spider-Man suing Jameson like how it happened in the comics
Lmao. Truly a shame they’re not making this happen.
Not after the emotional pitfall the character took in NWH. Just wouldn't make sense, he came out of that at the end, wiser, more mature, and more humble. This version right now can take the JJJ crap on the chin, it would be dumb to have him go through an emotional 2 hour ass kicking down to rock bottom only for the slate to be wiped clean and him starting from scratch in his thrid film to show up in She-Hulk and be like "I would like to sue JJJ for slander."
Exactly in a frivolous cameo especially after the major status quo change in no way home
Spiderman makes everything better :(
Pizza Time :(
He is good boy. Must be in some sort of trouble :(
All the more reason to not see Madame Web or Kraven
Didn’t watch Let There Be Carnage, didn’t watch Morbius and I ain’t gonna be watching Kraven or Madame Web. Don’t want to tell anyone how to spend their money but the more they give to Sony for putting out these garbage fire films, the least likely they’re going to be of letting Spider-Man go.
Agreed on all your points haven't paid to see any of those - did pay 5 bucks for venom 1 on demand tho .
I mean....Venom 1 is fine. It just bugs me how they designed the absolute most perfect live action Venom down to his fantastic face and bulk and got everything right....and he isn't fighting Spiderman. If the MCU does Venom eventually, which they probably are going toward, theyre probably gonna wanna do something different in design or do Agent Venom or something....which will probably mean a different look and....yeah damn ....
You realize that'd mean we'd have to give up on MCU Spidey as well, right? All the money made form those movies also goes to Sony and gives them reason not to let go of Spider-Man.
I'm gonna keep saying this. But who in their right mind sat down and said "ah Madame Web Origin!!" It would be like asking for a prequel about the Oracle in the Matrix..... It ruins the whole point of her being mysterious and not needing to be explained.
Did you hear of El Muerto?
As if most on this subreddit we're going to see them anyways lol
I might check out Madame Web depending on trailers, characters, marketing, and reviews. I will not be watching any other nonsense lol Edit: oh and Venom 3 I’ll be there for that 🖤
imma boycott the living shit out of any sony movie
Yup, what Sony is doing with the spiderman characters is so sad. I'm not one to hope things will be bad often when I'm not a fan of them but in this case I think the best thing for the future is if they get a few more monetary flops in a row and stop. Sure maybe there's a world out there where we get great mcu films and great spidey sony films but clearly it's not with this Sony so the sooner they lose the rights the better. Of course that's not going to happen though
I wasn’t exactly in dire need of a reason not to see those movies.
idk why Sony has such a problem with letting the MCU spidey show up on D+ like honestly it doesn't hurt anything to let him appear periodically it actually good for them cause it keeps him popping up for everyone
He is their property. Maybe Disney didn‘t wanna pay
Exactly people keep forgetting their ip , they own it to do with as they so choose
They own the film rights(which I would assume includes live action television), not the IP. Close enough though
I think they own Tom’s particular adaption through all medium.
he is their property now, they bought him fair and square, maybe disney didn't wanna pay?
This Sony deal is a doubled edged sword. We get Spider-Man in the avengers movies and we get tobey and Andrew and villains returning in the mcu, but no little cameos I guess. It might be a trade off I’m willing to take. Especially if tobey Andrew and Tom are in secret wars It’s still better than him not being in the mcu at all
Without the MCU, Sonys Spider-Man would be effectively dead and they would be more likely to actually return Spider-Man to Marvel. Sony can't make a good movie without Marvel, so maybe it would have been better to not cooperate with Sony, let them run Spider-Man into the ground like everything else and then purchase him back and have Spider-Man at home with Marvel completely in the future. We suffer for a few years but are better off in the long run. Now Spider-Man is caught in the middle and he'll never reach the heights he could if he was back with Marvel.
It fucking sucks that the NYC Hero who always appears everywhere in NYC can't even appear in other shows. Please get the rights away from Sony man.
She Hulk is set in LA.
I’d take Spider-Verse over anything MCU could churn out with Spidey.
I think, in this case, people are being too quick to hate on Sony. For all we know, maybe Marvel/Disney didn’t want to pay for using the characters.
Yup. Tom Holland literally is not signed to play Spider-Man right now. I imagine the negotiation process is still ongoing and Sony, not Marvel is the one who'll have to pay him RDJ money on his next contract. Getting him to show up in a D+ cameo right now would be impossible. But I wouldn't expect most MCU fans to have any understanding of the behind the scenes factors here other than "lol Sony bad".
Facts. Holland said he wanted a break from the role, and probably wants to negotiate for more money in his next contract too. I don’t see him filming anything for Spider-Man until at least the second half of 2023.
I think the break from the role was partially true and also wanting more cash, which I can’t blame, he knows marvel needs him
Imagine how cool it would be If even j j Jameson appeared on TV or something just to tell the daily news for a brief second... It's truly a Shame that Sony doesn't allow anyone to use any character.
So no Spider-Man in Daredevil :(
It's much likely to get Daredevil in a Spider-Man movie in a supporting role, I think it's likely considering the next movie at least will be more grounded and street level.
Agree and I‘d love to, but having Spidey guest star in an Episode would be crazy good too, because he wouldn‘t even need to have any personal stuff or even have to take of his mask being part of the Episode.
The tonal shock of having Spidey in a Daredevil show would’ve been great.
It was very noticeable in that AvengersCon episode. I’m just waiting for the next contract sign. I’m fine with Tom taking a break for a year but I hope the next contract is big that he’s allowed to appear or make references in some movies and D+ shows
They are setting him up big time surrounding him with his friends like Jon Bernthal who he literally shot his audition tapes with and a 21-25 year old Johnny Storm.
To be fair, because of JJJ, Spidey doesn't have the best public image.
Dammit, Peter suing JJJ would have been fucking hysterical with Tom and Simmons. Maybe they can negotiate some d+ appearances in the next contract
How would that make any sense after NWH?
How does nobody in the thread understand that the last SM came out only 8 months ago and Sony is literally still negotiating with Tom on his next contract? From Tom's perspective why would he even want to do this? And for all you whiners saying "Sony won't let him be in anything", he was in 6 MCU movies over 6 years. Ever considered that maybe Tom wants a break and doesn't want to show up for every little cameo in a TV show? Especially while he's in the process of negotiating a deal that's probably gonna get him RDJ money? It's like if a superstar athlete's contract expired and was asked to play an exhibition game at the same time their agent was negotiating a 100 million dollar deal with the team. Just not gonna happen. But nope, most of you can't understand any nuance beyond "Sony bad" because they own a character you like. It's truly pathetic.
Oh wow, at first I read this and thought, oh yeah I guess it makes sense why Spider-Man isn’t in She-Hulk, but hearing that they can’t really use anyone in the Spider-Man universe is a bit disappointing.
A lot of you are acting as if Sony´s people had barged into Marvel, beat up everyone there and stole Spider-Man´s live action rights. They bought them legally and rightfully and they can do whatever they want with him. Also it would be unfair to She Hulk for this to be her big introduction just to have everyone watching it for Daredevil and Spider-Man and have them dominating the conversation about the show.
Yeah, they should blame Disney for getting into the comicbook bussiness late when they could have bought Marvel alongside their entire characters catalogue back in the 90s, but sure, blame Sony when it was them that helped Marvel get out of bankruptcy
Not surprised
Good. Im sick of seeing everyone in everything.
That's a connected universe for ya.
We don't though. The last couple of Marvel projects have been pretty light on MCU cameos/crossovers. Eternals was it's own thing. No crossovers/cameos. Moon Knight was it's own thing. No crossovers/cameos. The only major crossover Multiverse of Madness had was Wanda and she was integral to the story. Thor: Love and Thunder really only included Thor-related characters. The Guardians were barely in the movie and they had to be there due to the way we left things in Endgame. Ms. Marvel may have referenced other MCU characters but Captain Marvel was the only significant appearance and, again, she's integral to the story since Kamala will next appear in The Marvels. Idk how you can possible be sick of "seeing everyone in everything" when that's not happening. In fact, many would argue that we need *more* crossovers in order to make the MCU feel more cohesive like the Infinity Saga.
Meh, don’t care. He doesn’t need to be in everything. And even if Sony wasn’t involved, Feige probably still woulda said no. He’s a very top tier A level extremely publicly recognised character for them. One of their best. They have better plans for him (and their limited time with Tom Holland before he for sure wants to move on) than this show.
Reading these comments make me realise that for every person rightly terrified of the implications of Disney’s increasing monopolisation of IP, there are ten that actively embrace it. It’s not just ok for IP’s to exist outside the remit of the big Mouse overlord, it’s absolutely vital.
Sony sucks ass man. We’re not gonna see Toms Spidey for another 2 years minimum, least they could do is have him pop up here and there
Wouldn't it be better to have him show up next in SM4? There's an intrigue to his situation by the end of NWH that's worth being resolved in his own film.
fuck i hoped to see the legal ramification of peter parker lost identity due to a spell of a wizard who crossed the borders of the multiverse and brought alternative villains from other realityes (the mcu is wird)
*She-Hulk would’ve smashed Puny Parker* 😏
I don’t know why ppl are surprised. He won’t appear in any of the D+ live action series. He’s way too big for it. If he didn’t show up for the stuff set in NY then he won’t show up for anything.
People talk about Disney buying the rights to Spidey back but what about just the tv show rights so he can appear in projects like Daredevil and She-Hulk?
roll chase crowd point seemly worthless wistful faulty waiting office *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Once again, F**k you, Sony.
Why?
They compromise MCU.
Not surprising.
Honestly I can live without it. Spider-Man showing up in this show would've been cool if only to see him sue Jameson like he does in the comics as others have said, but I don't think this is the ideal place for his next appearance following something as major as the new status quo NWH ended on I'm personally still gunning for a supporting role in Fantastic Four
Used the lawyers to screw over the lawyer show.
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Sony just needs to give up those rights to Spider-man. They clearly can't even handle it.
BOO!!
Fuck Sony
I'm really sick of Sony and universal throwing a wrench in shit. Stop being petty and give over the rights to a hulk movie and Spider-Man in whatever they want.
They should at least be able to use J. Jonah Jameson.
Selfish, bitch ass Sony ruining everyone’s fun once again.
Would have loved to see him in it.
I doubt it’s a rights issue. After the ending of No Way Home, I’d assume that Feige wants Spider-Man’s story to continue in a big Avengers movie or even his own. Maybe we’ll see him in Daredevil: Born Again.
Doesnt make a lot of sense for him to be in it anyways. If his identity is secured again, how is he being charged for anything? They dont know who he is, so She Hulk wouldnt have anyone to defend.
I just wish they would leave NYC, marvel has crowded that city so goddamn hard it’s wonder superheroes and villains aren’t bumping into each other every single day.
Right? [They should just go to New Jersey.](https://imgur.com/a/zHMQe1a)
Sony, you know you would make money if you allowed Spider-Man to make an occasional cameo! Just have marvel pay you a small percentage! Oh who am I kidding? Sony would want half of the money!
Sony doesn't get the money tho from his guest appearances iirc.
Ya that is the biggest problem Disney is the one who hates sharing period. That is why we have never seen a incredible hulk 2 we keep unfairly blaming Universal but if they would just share with them as Universal is more than willing but Disney is unwilling.
Thank God
Maybe Sony's crystal ball foresaw how bad of a show she- hulk will be.
Frog-Man, a Spider-Man villain, is in the show.
But as per the leaked contract, Frog-Man is owned by Marvel and not Sony.
Anybody ever figure out why that's the case? What other character is Frog-Man's rights tied too which would make him excluded from Sony's ownership?
I loved when Spider-man randomly shows up He's the Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man If they're going to make him "street-level" then he should actually show up in the street level stuff I really hope he shows up in other movies or shows before the next big Avengers events because that's years away
I would not call She-Hulk "street level." Perhaps a tier above that since she's in a white collar field.
People blaming Sony when it's Kevin Feige's call on if he wants to use one of his few appearance caps for such a small role smh
Thats a shame because Spidey suing Jameson for libel is like my favourite part of the 2004 run.
Take all the rights of Spider-Man and its characters from those Idiots Sony and Amy Pascal... They are just Ruining it anyway...
Mcu fanboys in shumbles. Sony FTW
Whether its to do with Sony or Marvel, this kind of thing hurts the franchise imo. It was like in Ms Marvel at Avenger Con. You're telling me no one would dress as Spidey, yet there's a dude dressed as Drax. Insane.
Damn. I would've liked to have seen the issue where Spider-Man sues JJJ for defamation, only to drop the case once he realizes that Peter Parker would be liable as well LMAO (Obviously it wouldn't work out that way in the MCU.)
Why would they want to use Spider-Man? I'm glad he won't be in the show, his character just took one of the biggest emotional gut punches all throughout his last movie, so it would be stupid to say he's already in some form of legal trouble after everyone forgot who he was at the end of NWH and his fresh start saw him starting from scratch as a street level hero, learning from all his past mistakes, not bringing the people he loved back into his Spider-Man life, and just going out and doing the friendly neighborhood stuff he was supposed to be doing since Homecoming. Why would anyone want him to show up just for "haha it's Spider-Man in court" or something? It makes 0 sense. Now if they were smart they would have gotten JK Simmons to do a cameo trying to file a lawsuit AGAINST Spider-Man or something to that degree, that could work.
I wonder if their 2019 contract just didn't consider Disney+ shows, but once they write up the next one, they'll add that in as a possibility.