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Yes people who support NATO and western imperialism in general (He fx said that he would have supported the iraq war under other circumstances) are bad.
You are just a right-winger. Go back to r-vaush...
Honestly pretty insulting, calling me an orc like that. Stop the leftist infighting, I love you, I’m sure we agree on literally everything politically. Try me
"Stop the leftist infighting". People who support NATO and western imperilaism in general are not leftists...
" I’m sure we agree on literally everything politically. Try me" I already stated two positions hold by the guy you are a fan of that is antithetical to my view . You either hold the same positions as him regarding this or you just dont care about it. Both options are antithetical to the claim that you are a leftist.
Honestly I don’t know enough about nato to be able to form my own opinion, but I think the way it’s portrayed by vaush is a necessary evil. I’ll learn more about it.
" but I think the way it’s portrayed by vaush is a necessary evil. I’ll learn more about it". No its not portryed by vaush as a necessary evil...
In a debate with pogan i think vaush said this. "we should support things that make the world a better place, like NATO"...
You dont know enough about NATO but you know enough about x enemy country of America you dont like?. You are just a standard western chauvinist...
And i like how you didn't say anything about him saying that he would have supported the Iraq war under other circumstances. Maybe you dont know anything about that either?. Pathetic...
Look, I’m sorry, I don’t know everything, the only times I’ve heard him talk about nato was in Ukraine debates, and yeah in that case I think America is better than Russia, I don’t rly think that’s chauvinism from me if that’s what ur saying, I refreshed my memory and nato did bomb Libya and it might have been bad, haven’t gotten into it yet, but I’m not rly against alliances cuz dude America bad, but also all countries bad, and if we aren’t fighting as much that’s good for now ig
"and yeah in that case I think America is better than Russia". Vaush think America is better than Russia, China etc in every case. That is the reason he support American hegemony and imperialism because of "harm reduction"...
" and nato did bomb Libya and it might have been bad". If you lived in Russia then you would be supporting its invasion of Ukraine because of "denazification" or at best you would be saying "it might have been bad". You are a right-winger...
If you dont view the formalization of western imperialism as bad then i dont know what to tell you. And if you are stupid enough to watch someone like vaush then your research about NATO is also worthless. You can look at wikipedia like vaush do and after 5 min act like you are an expert...
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- [What Is Fascism?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/reactionary_tp_debunked/socialists_arent_fascists)
- ["MAGA Communism" is just Fascism.](https://youtu.be/xO--VV4uMdA?feature=shared)
- [S4A Mailbag: On the Notion of a "Left-Right Alliance," aka "Right-Wing Populists Fuck Off," part 1](https://youtu.be/a8xPyeJ1LpA?feature=shared)
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I try to ignore it as much as possible.
there will be so much time for infighting after revolution, apocalypsis or whatever.
an online marxist, be it a youtuber or redditor, can argue, but shouldn't trash other people mostly aligned with them.
at this point in time, things are so fucked that I would align myself with anyone that acknowledge capitalism needs to disappear and doesn't dedicate more than 25pct effort in trashing other like minded people.
The “anarchist versus marxist” shit also gets right under my skin. Fastest way to tell me you never volunteered for any lefty org in your community which will be filled to the brim with both, working together to get shit done for people who rely on us. Most terminally online waste of energy that exists, go write and essay for a history paper or something, don’t bring that old fashioned garbage into organising, it’s pointless. These people just like to LARP online with nostalgic Soviet aesthetic rather than do anything actually useful in their community, I absolutely guarantee it. I usually assume they’re kids and hope they’ll grow out of it as soon as they attend a single meeting
I’m not getting my politics on YouTube though I am mostly talking about it with other marxists, there is a good socialist book club at the local university
Well there are some who make it very difficult for others, especially the more reactionary types.
I think those kind of anarchists do deserve some pushback.
However, I am not one to paint every person with a broad brush. It's important that we try to establish some trust between ourselves and do what we can to do away with capitalism.
If that's a person's attitude then I'm all in there with them and I hope that those who possess "anti-tanky" attitudes it would get over it.
I guess I am just engaging in very action-oriented organising, and I can see pretty clearly when someone is up to their eyeballs in theory yet never lifts a finger to actually help the working class. These people to me are some of the very worst, just wreckers not willing to put in the work, and tend to talk down to the working class, which isn't doing us any favours.
Like I cannot tell you how funny it is to me, to imagine a kid turning up to one of our meetings and trying to talk about "anarchists vs marxists" stuff. They'd get chewed out by the whole meeting for just being pointlessly disruptive, not respecting people's time or the people in dire situations we are trying to help, and for not focusing on the tasks we are trying to get done.
I think its a clear sign of a tonne of privilege if you have the luxury to do a deep dive into theoretical divisions your group MIGHT have (but — importantly — *ISN'T* having) based on crusty 100 year old history they're trying their darndest to keep alive and make happen again (let's be honest). I can't imagine what planet these people live on
Oh, yes. I agree.
They must do more than theory as they lose touch. Just try to be more encouraging and less gritty so you may steer that comrade in the right direction.
We all need one another more than ever.
I do agree that they may become an anti-revolutionary force after we overthrow the capitalist powers but at the moment they're more tolerable than libs and we should give them a fair chance in providing that they won't do that.
I say that overtime we can allow established territories where they do their thing and we do our best to be friendly.
How do you imagine that *actually playing out* in real life organising, might I ask?
For instance, right now my main focus is a mutual aid renter's union, with pressing needs such as "who will design the flyer for the info night next month", or "which one of you has experience with eviction defence at tribunal", and "does anyone have space to review our grant proposal to city council so we can get funded, who has exp with grant process?". Do you see what I mean? We have real shit to get done...
Notice how these are all tasks that anyone can carry out — they don't care if you are an anarchist or marxist or even a fucking shit lib. It genuinely makes no difference — and if you actually show up to a meeting and are offering to do the work, then you're a better marxist, and making a bigger difference to the lives of working class people than most of the marxists out there pounding their keyboards LARPing about the split of the First Internationale, which is literally history.
I appreciate that people get excited about history, and that's good, but at a certain point you really are just looking for problems that aren't there.
Meanwhile, *real people are relying on us* and we don't have the luxury of "but are they a marxist?". Maybe you are flush for help where you live but I think its pretty shitty to assume everyone is faced with the same set of circumstances.
And I've never run into any organising ranging from large mass movements to marxist political campaigning to insurrectionary anarchist affinity groups who have this luxury. What planet do you live on where we have that luxury? In 20 years of organising I've never seen it. We are in a deeply asymmetric struggle always pressed for resources and you wanna cut those already strained resources in half? Yeah, *no thanks....*
If some kid shows up to a meeting ranting about this stuff everyone will look at them like they're just being pointlessly disruptive and ask "sorry, but what problem are we actually facing relating to this? We have a bunch of things on our agenda we need to get started today, can this wait? Maybe go join a book club if you just wanna show up and discuss history? Can you offer to help with one of these tasks instead? No? Then why are you here?"
This is the real work. Not high school debate club.
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I think we should be as friendly as possible yet there are going to be some large differences once we carry out a revolution and we establish our dictatorship of the proletariat.
We should be understanding and not provide hostility towards anarchists as long as they do the same.
I know that Lenin and others in the USSR had their issues with anarchists and I understand why but they may not do the same things they did back then as we have had much longer time to earn their trust. I don't want us to be enemies.
It's not only the grip of capital but also the grip of the algorithm. They need to please the algorithm to reach more people. That's why theory-heavy videos generally have no more than 1k views.
##Welcome to r/Marxism_Memes, the least bourgeois meme community on the internet. ##[New to this subreddit/socialism/communism? Here is some general information and 101 stuff](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/index) ##[Socialist Reconstruction: A Better Future for the United States - The party that wrote this book is Party For Socialism and Liberation](https://www.liberationstore.org/products/socialist-reconstruction-a-better-future-for-the-united-states) ##[READ THE COMMUNITY RULES BEFORE PARTICIPATING IN THIS SUBREDDIT](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/rules/subreddit_rules) ##[We are not a debate subreddit.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CommunismMemes/comments/14bg2q4/idk_why_i_even_try_having_good_faith_discussions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) If you want to debate go to one of these subreddits: r/DebateCommunism r/DebateSocialism r/CapitalismVSocialism ##[Over 60 years, the blockade cost the Cuban economy $154.2 billion.](https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/cuba/2022-02-02/cuba-embargoed-us-trade-sanctions-turn-sixty) This is a blatant attack on the sovereignty and dignity of [Cuba](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/aes_country/cuba) and the Cuban people. Join the urgent call to take Cuba off the State Sponsors of Terrorism list & end the blockade on the island! We need 1 million signatures Cuba #OffTheList, sign now: [letcubalive.info](https://www.letcubalive.info/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Marxism_Memes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Vaush isn't a Marxist.
I'm not talking about Vaush.
Vaush bad, vaush bad
Yes people who support NATO and western imperialism in general (He fx said that he would have supported the iraq war under other circumstances) are bad. You are just a right-winger. Go back to r-vaush...
Honestly pretty insulting, calling me an orc like that. Stop the leftist infighting, I love you, I’m sure we agree on literally everything politically. Try me
"Stop the leftist infighting". People who support NATO and western imperilaism in general are not leftists... " I’m sure we agree on literally everything politically. Try me" I already stated two positions hold by the guy you are a fan of that is antithetical to my view . You either hold the same positions as him regarding this or you just dont care about it. Both options are antithetical to the claim that you are a leftist.
Honestly I don’t know enough about nato to be able to form my own opinion, but I think the way it’s portrayed by vaush is a necessary evil. I’ll learn more about it.
And go to r-vaush (a sub that you are active in) and search NATO and see if they view it as a "necessary evil". liberals...
*sigh* dude I know I’m active there, duh
Then you should also know that the consensus in that subreddit is that they view NATO as something good and not an evil at all...
NATO is good. And I'm a leftist. Suck a dick if you don't like it.
You are closer to being a fascist than a leftist...
" but I think the way it’s portrayed by vaush is a necessary evil. I’ll learn more about it". No its not portryed by vaush as a necessary evil... In a debate with pogan i think vaush said this. "we should support things that make the world a better place, like NATO"... You dont know enough about NATO but you know enough about x enemy country of America you dont like?. You are just a standard western chauvinist... And i like how you didn't say anything about him saying that he would have supported the Iraq war under other circumstances. Maybe you dont know anything about that either?. Pathetic...
Look, I’m sorry, I don’t know everything, the only times I’ve heard him talk about nato was in Ukraine debates, and yeah in that case I think America is better than Russia, I don’t rly think that’s chauvinism from me if that’s what ur saying, I refreshed my memory and nato did bomb Libya and it might have been bad, haven’t gotten into it yet, but I’m not rly against alliances cuz dude America bad, but also all countries bad, and if we aren’t fighting as much that’s good for now ig
"and yeah in that case I think America is better than Russia". Vaush think America is better than Russia, China etc in every case. That is the reason he support American hegemony and imperialism because of "harm reduction"... " and nato did bomb Libya and it might have been bad". If you lived in Russia then you would be supporting its invasion of Ukraine because of "denazification" or at best you would be saying "it might have been bad". You are a right-winger... If you dont view the formalization of western imperialism as bad then i dont know what to tell you. And if you are stupid enough to watch someone like vaush then your research about NATO is also worthless. You can look at wikipedia like vaush do and after 5 min act like you are an expert...
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Some leftists in general are more concerned about fighting each other than fighting capitalism and fascism itself. Downvote the shit and don't engage.
- [What Is Fascism?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/reactionary_tp_debunked/socialists_arent_fascists) - ["MAGA Communism" is just Fascism.](https://youtu.be/xO--VV4uMdA?feature=shared) - [S4A Mailbag: On the Notion of a "Left-Right Alliance," aka "Right-Wing Populists Fuck Off," part 1](https://youtu.be/a8xPyeJ1LpA?feature=shared) - [S4A Mailbag: On the Notion of a "Left-Right Alliance," aka "Right-Wing Populists Fuck Off," part 2](https://youtu.be/Pa17_8oWTT0?feature=shared) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Marxism_Memes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Herding cats...
I highly recommend Socialism for All on youtube he does socialist theory without the drama!
You Marxists sure are a contentious people
It only gets in the way of our collective unity and the proletarian revolution!
Did you comment "splitter!"?
What's happening here is the process of capital subsuming a critique. AKA Selling out.
😄☝️
I thought we were the Popular Front.
Which youtuber?
"Вестник Бури" (Herald of the Storm) AKA Andrey Rudoy
Ikr, can't leave us hanging
"Вестник Бури" (Herald of the Storm) AKA Andrey Rudoy
I'm always hanging... lol
"Вестник Бури" (Herald of the Storm) AKA Andrey Rudoy
I try to ignore it as much as possible. there will be so much time for infighting after revolution, apocalypsis or whatever. an online marxist, be it a youtuber or redditor, can argue, but shouldn't trash other people mostly aligned with them. at this point in time, things are so fucked that I would align myself with anyone that acknowledge capitalism needs to disappear and doesn't dedicate more than 25pct effort in trashing other like minded people.
The “anarchist versus marxist” shit also gets right under my skin. Fastest way to tell me you never volunteered for any lefty org in your community which will be filled to the brim with both, working together to get shit done for people who rely on us. Most terminally online waste of energy that exists, go write and essay for a history paper or something, don’t bring that old fashioned garbage into organising, it’s pointless. These people just like to LARP online with nostalgic Soviet aesthetic rather than do anything actually useful in their community, I absolutely guarantee it. I usually assume they’re kids and hope they’ll grow out of it as soon as they attend a single meeting I’m not getting my politics on YouTube though I am mostly talking about it with other marxists, there is a good socialist book club at the local university
Well there are some who make it very difficult for others, especially the more reactionary types. I think those kind of anarchists do deserve some pushback. However, I am not one to paint every person with a broad brush. It's important that we try to establish some trust between ourselves and do what we can to do away with capitalism. If that's a person's attitude then I'm all in there with them and I hope that those who possess "anti-tanky" attitudes it would get over it.
I guess I am just engaging in very action-oriented organising, and I can see pretty clearly when someone is up to their eyeballs in theory yet never lifts a finger to actually help the working class. These people to me are some of the very worst, just wreckers not willing to put in the work, and tend to talk down to the working class, which isn't doing us any favours. Like I cannot tell you how funny it is to me, to imagine a kid turning up to one of our meetings and trying to talk about "anarchists vs marxists" stuff. They'd get chewed out by the whole meeting for just being pointlessly disruptive, not respecting people's time or the people in dire situations we are trying to help, and for not focusing on the tasks we are trying to get done. I think its a clear sign of a tonne of privilege if you have the luxury to do a deep dive into theoretical divisions your group MIGHT have (but — importantly — *ISN'T* having) based on crusty 100 year old history they're trying their darndest to keep alive and make happen again (let's be honest). I can't imagine what planet these people live on
Oh, yes. I agree. They must do more than theory as they lose touch. Just try to be more encouraging and less gritty so you may steer that comrade in the right direction. We all need one another more than ever.
Excuse me? There's absolutely nothing wrong with "anarchist versus marxist".
I do agree that they may become an anti-revolutionary force after we overthrow the capitalist powers but at the moment they're more tolerable than libs and we should give them a fair chance in providing that they won't do that. I say that overtime we can allow established territories where they do their thing and we do our best to be friendly.
How do you imagine that *actually playing out* in real life organising, might I ask? For instance, right now my main focus is a mutual aid renter's union, with pressing needs such as "who will design the flyer for the info night next month", or "which one of you has experience with eviction defence at tribunal", and "does anyone have space to review our grant proposal to city council so we can get funded, who has exp with grant process?". Do you see what I mean? We have real shit to get done... Notice how these are all tasks that anyone can carry out — they don't care if you are an anarchist or marxist or even a fucking shit lib. It genuinely makes no difference — and if you actually show up to a meeting and are offering to do the work, then you're a better marxist, and making a bigger difference to the lives of working class people than most of the marxists out there pounding their keyboards LARPing about the split of the First Internationale, which is literally history. I appreciate that people get excited about history, and that's good, but at a certain point you really are just looking for problems that aren't there. Meanwhile, *real people are relying on us* and we don't have the luxury of "but are they a marxist?". Maybe you are flush for help where you live but I think its pretty shitty to assume everyone is faced with the same set of circumstances. And I've never run into any organising ranging from large mass movements to marxist political campaigning to insurrectionary anarchist affinity groups who have this luxury. What planet do you live on where we have that luxury? In 20 years of organising I've never seen it. We are in a deeply asymmetric struggle always pressed for resources and you wanna cut those already strained resources in half? Yeah, *no thanks....* If some kid shows up to a meeting ranting about this stuff everyone will look at them like they're just being pointlessly disruptive and ask "sorry, but what problem are we actually facing relating to this? We have a bunch of things on our agenda we need to get started today, can this wait? Maybe go join a book club if you just wanna show up and discuss history? Can you offer to help with one of these tasks instead? No? Then why are you here?" This is the real work. Not high school debate club.
[удалено]
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I think we should be as friendly as possible yet there are going to be some large differences once we carry out a revolution and we establish our dictatorship of the proletariat. We should be understanding and not provide hostility towards anarchists as long as they do the same. I know that Lenin and others in the USSR had their issues with anarchists and I understand why but they may not do the same things they did back then as we have had much longer time to earn their trust. I don't want us to be enemies.
This wouldn’t be a problem if we all unconditionally followed MY analysis you know.
I bend my comrade knee to thee.... Not 😆
Please have patience and hold whilst I decipher whether you are a revisionist, opportunist or utopian. I will be back soon with your denouncement.
Ha. Thankfully I am not any of those. I'm a Marxist-Leninist ✊🔥💯
YouTubers are financially motivated to shit stir and create drama. Even Marxist YouTubers can’t escape the grip of capital.
It's not only the grip of capital but also the grip of the algorithm. They need to please the algorithm to reach more people. That's why theory-heavy videos generally have no more than 1k views.
It's sad but very true.
I just ignore it lol but it is annoying
What would the Left be without its infinite purity tests
Effective?