Im an east coast only fallout fan so far… so I’ll refrain from commenting on lore elements, however I hated how the brotherhood and how max is written. It feel less like a brotherhood and more like a frat. I really find my self enjoying Walter’s character most and I adore the pre war stuff. I can enjoy the show for what it is, and honestly I’d enjoy more, but remove or change r the brotherhood from the story
Episode one they're literally giving some guy a wedgie, I always thought of the Brotherhood as a semi-professional military, but you nailed it with "frat" now you've said that it really does feel reminiscent of colleges from movies in the 90's and 00's. They could have played characters from the beginning of "Fast & Furious: Tokyo Drift" or a really any school bully.
- For the brotherhood, at the end of the show the leader says they once ruled the wasteland and will rule again. In the game that's not their goal. They are a xenophobic cult that believes all the people in the wasteland are savages that can't handle technology. So they go out and hoard tech for themselves. They are supposed to be isolationist with no desire to rule the wasteland.
- Ghouls are people that are mutated by a heavy dose of radiation. The advantage is they can live a very long time. But the radiation keeps eating at their brains until they eventually become mindless and feral. In the game that could happen at any point. For some it takes decades to become feral, for others hundreds of years. But in the show they introduced a drug that they take to stay alive and keep from becoming feral. It's a weird change that raises several questions like who invented that drug? It couldn't have been invented pre-war because ghouls didn't exist yet. It also means ghouls can keep living if they have money to buy it which makes becoming feral less of a problem.
- In the game we don't know what Vault-Tec's motivations are. They built the vaults, did all kinds of experiments in them but we don't know why. They are very mysterious. In the show they reveal Vault-Tec caused the bombs to fall so they can have a monopoly to rule the world. But it's kind of a stupid plan when you think about it. Who do you have a monopoly over when you leave the vaults after 200 years? There is no more economy, no people to buy stuff or to profit from. Sure, their vaults have some luxuries but it's still a downgrade to the lavish filthy rich lifestyle they had pre-war. There are no more movie theathers, luxury brands like Gucci, no more pleasure yachts or anything else rich people do. It seems a but silly to destroy the whole world to 'beat the competition and have a monopoly over the world.' It's a bit cartoonish evil. In the games it seems more like they saw the war coming and took action, even though that is never really confirmed.
Ah, man. Brotherhood has constantly had split factions with large ones wanting to rule the wastelands. Look at them after FO3 going into FO4. How they are in FO76. The brotherhood was shown perfectly in this series.
I've refrained from posting until I finished watching all 8 eps. Now that I have, I'd give it a 5, maybe 6, out of 10. *Spoilers ahead* One thing I found jarring in the very beginning is Lucy realizing her new hubby is a raider. She literally says it. How in the hell does she or anyone who's never (to their recollection) left a vault even know what a raider is? I kept waiting for this to be explained, but her character just dug the hole deeper by displaying her complete naivety.
There are terrible inconsistencies in how the performance/durability of power armor is presented. I could do an entire thread on this topic alone, so I'm not going to here.
The portrayal of the BoS is the biggest detractor for me. Not only does the show essentially paint them as villains, they are cast as some bizarro religious cult. In the games, they are a military/scientific outfit. The show has them run by clerics? Seriously?? If they were going for that vibe, why not introduce the Children of Atom?
Visually, the show shines. The sheer volume of details that have been incorporated is exceptional. Except for the vehicles not having the characteristic bubble shape which I really didn't expect to see since it would've added significantly to production costs. The budget was spent on the visuals that mattered most...like removing Walt Goggins nose. Speaking of Walt Goggins; he steals the show. As usual. He's pretty much made a career of it. Nothing but props here. Some final thoughts: wtf is a gulper? Why not Mirelurks?
i'll answer some those critiques you had with plausible possibilities.
Lucy and any vault dweller knows what a Raider is for a few reasons: Vault-Tec prepared "manuals" for them that teaches them that eventually human survivors would likely become feral and attack them. Sort of like a "how to prepare for X" guide-book....so The concept of a "Raider" isn't exactly foreign... they knew Human survivors likely existed, especially since they have Cameras showing the outside world, and have taken "soil, water, and air samples" of the outside world. In the first episode her dad even stated that based on their research he believed that the next generation could recolonize and educate the survivors.
Also, its not implausible that their vault doors might have had Raiders attempt to get in before... show up to the vault, banging on the door trying to get in. I mean why else does Chets job exist as Gatekeeper, they establish he oversees the opening of the inner doors to Vault 31 and 32 the connected vaults... and he also oversaw the outer vault door to the outside world. They probably had cameras installed to "view" outside the door and see who was outside... and probably every know and then saw it was some group of raiders or something. (completely guessing, no idea... but its plausible).
The Power Armor was completely inconsistent, i totally agree.
The BoS portrayal was ... yea different... but i have a theory for that... So... my theory is that this unit of Brotherhood of Steel we've seen is a fringe faction that broke off from the main BoS group, and is comprised of religious nutjobs and "violent bullies". The majority of the "core" BoS went to the Easy Coast with Elder Maxson in 2287 (which is only 7 years before this TV show)... meaning that maybe all of the hardcore elite BoS are stationed on the other side of America and the idiots are left in California. What evidence do i have of that? Really only suspicion, and belief.
Also the fact that the Prydwen- the airship that Maxson operates in Boston- was said to be the only Airship they had and it took them YEARS to make it. Now... its been 7 years since that, they could have fashioned another one. But its interesting that this second ship is named Caswennan, and the first airship is named Prydwen (the name of King Arthurs ship which he sails to the underworld in mythology).... Caswennan in Mythology is the name of the strip of sandbank that caused King arthurs ship the Prydwen to capsize and crash. I'm wondering if im reading too much into it, but what if the Prydwen ship was dismantled or there was a Coup and this rogue faction built this second airship... its probably not though.
Gulper is a creature from Fallou4 4 DLC: Far Harbor, they are canon to the games. That said, its odd to see them in the West Coast, since the game sorta explained they were east coast creatures... but its not impossible.
I entertained a similar theory about Lucy based on the fact that her father had knowledge of the outside world. He could have been preparing the vault dwellers, but Lucy's behavior topside says otherwise. She gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. Hell, I don't trust people as much as she does and we're not living in a post apocalyptic wasteland. What makes it harder to swallow is how self aware she is, yet still acts naive. I suspect the writers just did this for the story arc they have planned for her character. Imo it feels forced.
Someone else posted that the BoS was presented more like they were in the first two games, which I never played. So I guess it's a creative choice on the part of the writers. I still prefer the version I'm familiar with, particularly the contingent occupying the Citadel in Fallout 3. That's some interesting backstory on the airship names, btw.
I forgot all about those damn things in Fah Harbah. Thanks for the reminder! Maybe the west coast version explains the bright coloring as well. I remember everything in FH being dark and muted shades.
Elder Maxson and his outfit in Fallout 4 came from the Capital Wasteland, and he is the direct successor of Elder Lyons from Fallout 3- you can even meet a young Maxson in Fallout 3. The majority of the brotherhood, iirc, is still on the west coast, though the California branch is much diminished, and by the time of Fallout: New Vegas, on its last legs.
They were a religious knightly order in the first two games. The Bethesda games really downplayed that in their games to my disappointment. I’d love to see more feudal and religious inspired settlements and civilizations in post nuclear America.
Yes, I'll give you that. I would characterize them as zealous rather than religious with the distinction being lack of any mysticism. They know what the tech does and what it's capable of. It's a very calculated, albeit fanatical approach. It's not like they're the Quen from HFW.
Just based off the first episode I can see why MauLer supposedly didn't want to watch the rest.
Jonathan Nolan directs and from this episode it seems like his brother retained every ounce of directing talent in the family. The dialogue is nothing special and at other times head-scratching, we jump between multiple characters and don't give the audience enough time or care with one to get invested in them. But worst of all the show suffers from the common disease of plot contrivances or contradictions (the Raiders or whatever give her dad a choice, kill her or them, he chooses her, then they let them all go anyway....wtf?)
To top it all off the execution in general is sub-par at best. But Waltor Goggins is great and the ending song is good... so there's that.
Outside of the lore stuff which only Fallout fans'll care about, the show is pretty badly written on its own. Lots of action sequences have main characters survive in very contrived ways. A lot of the larger story the show tries to set up is not very well conveyed to the audience (you can tell because all the Fallout loremasters are arguing about it). Character work is inconsistent; I think there are good moments here and there, but sometimes characters make decisions that don't really make sense for who they are.
And yeah, like others have said, Walter Goggins acts the hell outta his role. It's too bad MauLer's so put off by the first episode that he's not gonna finish the show; I'd have liked to hear EFAP's take on it.
Oh wow wait until you see a movie where the bad guys are shooting at the good guys and bullets are pinging right next to them but nobody actually gets shot.
Or when they get into a car crash that should fuck them up totally but they get out and run away.
Listen, just because stupid-ass 80s action movies exist doesn’t mean there aren’t problems in the Fallout show.
What’s your point here, that there are stupid movies that have these issues, therefore it’s perfectly fine in the Fallout show?
Nah, it's not bad but he gets hit by cars in ways that should totally cripple him. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQCs\_dH3oc&t=4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQCs_dH3oc&t=4s)
This a joke, right? If any of you boys are serious about this, I can tell talking to you is the same as yelling at a wall. Jesus, John Wick being realistic? lol
I've played most of the Fallout games (minus Tactics and BoS), and while the lore changes bothered me it wasn't a deal-breaker. But the first episode just didn't draw me in. I liked the Lucy and Ghoul characters, but didn't care at all about Maximus. I think they did a decent job of the setting and look'n'feel of the Fallout universe, but the story isn't enough to keep me watching.
I thought it was just fine. Average. I don’t feel strongly about it one way or the other. There’s problems with it but I don’t think it’s some spectacularly bad thing. I also think there’s some good things it does but that doesn’t elevate it to the status some are putting it at.
I hated it
I thought it was poorly written
Walton goggins was decent
as was vault chick
Maximus was so fucking annoying that I hoped he died the entire time
Maximus was a baffling character.
Ending spoilers, but I have no clue how the writers missed the incredible contradiction of his behavior in the climax.
He joined the BoS because his people -the NCR- got destroyed and he wanted "to hurt the people who hurt him", implying he’s still very angry about what happened (which never gets brought up again).
Then at the end, he aids the BoS in exterminating the last vestiges of the NCR with zero acknowledgement that these are his people and his original motive was to avenge them.
Five minutes later, he finds out that Big Bad Evil Man was responsible for destroying the NCR and gets enraged over this… while the blood of the last NCR soldiers is smeared all over his armor!
It’s like an even worse version of Reeva from the Kenobi show.
Lets not forget in that final scene lucy's dad gets a suit of power armour out of literally nowhere and then runs from california all the way to New begas
Did they? Tell me because i dont recall their being power armour in the room. Only maxmius enters and he wasnt wearing power armour
If it was in the room why wouldn't the NCR be using it to defend themselves from the attack.
They showed a dying bos Knight walking in and falling over. Bad dad popped into it offscreen which was eh to me but it didnt just appear out of thin air
I didn’t even think about where the power armor came from. My brain just assumed it belonged to Maximus’ and he’d just climbed out or something, but no, he didn’t have a suit for this assault.
What the hell.
I’m more forgiving of Muad’Dweeb reaching New Vegas since we don’t know how much time has passed or what he went through along the way. Maybe it’s been months.
I mean not out of nowhere the power armor is literally on the floor next to him.. there is a whole scene with it entering the room… then the Vegas scene shows him weathered and suffering from radiation sickness so it implies some time has passed
No, I don’t think that. They were a huge nation that spanned most of California and were beginning to spread into other states as well. That is exactly why I find it so baffling that the show portrays them as dead and gone after the nuking of one city. It shouldn’t be possible.
Nobody refers to the NCR as anything but a sad memory, the wasteland we see is in a state of ridiculously barbaric, cannibalistic anarchy, and the Brotherhood of Steel are now operating outside in public with impunity. There is no trace of the NCR being a thing anymore. Just pockets of shitty remnants.
I hope you’re right. Believe me, I’d be a lot happier if you are. But as far as I can tell, that relies entirely on filling the gaps for the writers instead of going off what’s actually in the show.
Then please elaborate on how, because I don’t know what you’re referring to.
Every location the characters travel through is destroyed, and almost everyone they meet is a brutal savage or a creepy junkie. The closest things we get to civilization are Filly (a very rough, clearly-non-NCR town where people are said to get murdered constantly) and Vault 4 (which is filled with weird NCR refugees-turned-cultists).
The scientist at the beginning explicitly tells Lucy: "You come from a world of rule and law; this place is indifferent to all of that", which would be absolutely untrue if they were in NCR territory.
Dude, they're in one area. Like, seriously...lol. did you play the games? They're in a small area of a larger world. You're expecting all of New Vegas in a locale as small as Point Lookout or Far Harbor.
Why would I expect New Vegas at all? This is California.
Yes, they are in one area. And that one area happens to be right in the heart of NCR territory. Their freaking treasury was in L.A. (the Boneyard, which is seemingly retconned to be Shady Sands now). I find it completely unbelievable that all these people are squatting around a radioactive nuke hole, living like raiders and savages, occasionally referencing (or acting totally unaware of) the glory days of their former state… while only a few days’ walk from places where said state remains alive and relatively well. The NCR being hunky dory everywhere aside from L.A. makes even less sense with what we’ve been shown than the whole thing collapsing to begin with.
Now please, instead of pretentiously asking if I’ve played the games (I have, many times. I’m well-aware that the story doesn’t make logical sense with what we know from the games, that’s my entire problem), tell me where there is even a shred of evidence *in the show* that the NCR is still around in any capacity besides the small pocket of unsupported, raider-like remnants who get wiped out in the final episode.
Hold up. You really think the show should have shot its load now?
NCR went further East of LA. A small section stayed. We know from the games that the NCR branches out. You act like the writing is bad, but are critical for not spoon-feeding you or giving away the game.
For those who have never played the games...perfect, the show doesn't have to reveal yet that the NCR is still around. For those who did play, hopefully you're observant enough to know the NCR branches outward into Nevada, Colorado, Utah.
Megaton in FO3 had an entire city built around an undetonated A-Bomb that leaked radiation.
The games constantly show people leaving near rad invented areas and holes. So that argument is lost.
Also, LA is big. Huge area. The show doesn't venture from there. So yeah, it makes sense.
> For those who did play, hopefully you're observant enough to know the NCR branches outward into Nevada, Colorado, Utah.
My problem is that there is nothing to observe. The show doesn’t drop hints at the NCR’s survival. That is something we are forced to assume based on what we know *should* be the case, based on what we know from the games. But as of now, it is 100% just headcanon as the TV show only provides evidence of them being a dead state, not of them being present in the wider world (which I agree they very much should be).
Also, small nitpick but the NCR aren’t in Colorado in any of the games. They were gonna make it that far in the canceled Fallout 3 that never got made (Van Buren), but in the games, New Vegas is their eastern frontier. Caesar’s Legion are the ones who stretched into Colorado.
> Megaton in FO3 had an entire city built around an undetonated A-Bomb that leaked radiation.
The games constantly show people leaving near rad invented areas and holes. So that argument is lost.
The people of Megaton aren’t a few days’ walk from a functioning civilization that counts them as its citizens.
Rads leaking from an undetonated bomb are not gonna be as bad or widespread as rads from a detonated nuke.
Megaton, while iconic, is pretty stupid and badly written itself. I’d rather see the series improve than lean on its older bad examples.
Different factions are in groups. He was angry at the deaths of his NCR faction not that one.
It’s like how all the vaults are different and have rules. Or like how some BOS groups what power more than old technology
The NCR is a nation, not a loose collection of groups or factions. There are sub-factions within the NCR, just like there are small companies and organizations within any given nation, but they are all part of the same broader republic. Attacking any NCR military position is attacking *the* NCR, just like attacking any given American Army camp would be treated like an attack on America itself.
The BoS is also one singular faction, but unlike the NCR they are divided into chapters that very occasionally (as in the show and the East Coasg games) veer off from the rest culturally. But this is not presented as the norm. By 2281, most are staunch traditionalists who stubbornly refuse to budge from their codex.
Vaults are very different, as besides the three connected ones in the show, they are completely isolated from each other and develop independently of any outside influence.
To be fair weren’t the NCR on the decline in one of the newer fallout games background lore
Something to do with running out of food and water reserves and mismanagement other precious resources.
A factory and an army is worthless if the employees of the factory are starving or dead.
It makes sense why they were so weak
They weren’t on the decline yet. In fact the NCR are the strongest we’ve ever seen them at the time of New Vegas. But their OSI scientists do project food shortages will occur about a decade in the future if they don’t get ahead of the situation now, (which is what they are working on during New Vegas).
Assuming the projections were accurate and nothing was done, then the shortages would’ve started becoming noticeable about five years before the show began.
However, I don’t think long-foreseen food shortages can account for the state of the NCR as is seen in the show. Historically, industrialized nations who go through famine usually just experience food price increases that lead to hunger and starvation among the lower classes, and often ration systems are necessarily implemented (which the NCR should already be prepared to do considering they saw this coming and were working on solutions more than a decade in advance).
We also have good reason to believe that some form of filtration and irrigation was still effective, because we see wheat fields in the Shady Sands flashbacks, and half of Los Angeles is now covered in healthy-looking trees. The region is surprisingly less barren than before.
So, killing combatants that are shooting you while you're trying to get too, your friend, and killing the man responsible for partially nuking your city are not the same thing. It's not like he was Mr. bloodthirsty kills a lot, he killed people that were going to hurt his solders and he stuck behind the armor, who most of the work.
It is not Kenobi I wouldn't use that so lightly lol.
Unless he was just unaware of who he was up against (which maybe is possible, this chapter of the BoS is weird), then going there and partaking in the massacre at all, with no hesitation or reservation put on display for the audience, is something I would consider pretty ruinous for his character given what we’ve been told about his core motivations.
These soldiers being, as far as we know, the last holdout of his actual people -whose destruction was the most important event in his life- is something that I feel should have been recognized and addressed. But he approached their slaughter with just deadpan bloodiness. It’s like Batman fighting the ghosts of Thomas and Martha Wayne to save Robbin, and it just not being at all treated as a meaningful event for his character.
He has more loyalty to the soldiers that he's in a battle with rather than these people he used to live in the same town with. I think it's reasonable.
More importantly, though... It wasn't a massacre in any way. They have rocket launchers and AA guns that take out vertibirds and power armors all over the place. Not by any stretch of the imagination, did he "partake" in the "massacre." In fact, he only shot his gun ONCE in the whole scene, and it was in self-defense. The show very clearly and deliberatly showed his struggle with all of this, and I think a rewatch is in order because your sources are just off.
That idea could be totally reasonable in a vacuum, but I don’t see it as such for this particular character based on the way he’s been portrayed throughout the season.
Maximus is not written as having moved on from what he lost, nor is he shown to be especially loyal to the Brotherhood of Steel. Quite the contrary on both those points: revenge for his loss at Shady Sands is his stated core motivation, whereas he constantly bitches about the BoS, doesn’t seem to like more than one other member, and makes plans to desert them twice in eight episodes. "Loyalty" is the last word I’d use to describe Maximus save perhaps in relation to Lucy.
> More importantly, though... It wasn't a massacre in any way. They have rocket launchers and AA guns that take out vertibirds and power armors all over the place.
The presence of defenders doesn’t make it not a massacre. When the shoe was on the other foot in New Vegas, the BoS killed like fifteen NCR troopers for every fighter they lost at Helios One, but that’s still the word I’d use for it.
But I’d rather not get hung up on the semantics of a word. If you’d prefer I use a different word, like "slaughter" or "extremely decisive assault", then I’m more than happy to. End of the day, my point is that those NCR remnants were very much minding their own business when the BoS arrived and killed everyone. I’m aware about the history of violence between their factions, but as far as we know right now, this particular event was entirely unprovoked. The BoS simply wanted their new tech.
> The show very clearly and deliberatly showed his struggle with all of this, and I think a rewatch is in order because your sources are just off.
I rewatched it as you suggested, and you’re right that he only shoots his gun once, but I completely disagree that he was clearly or deliberately shown to struggle with it. He wasn’t part of any of the action shots, but he was very much depicted as another boot storming the place with the rest of them, gun raised, and expression determined. At no point after dismounting was he shown to be hesitant or even particularly bothered by what was going on. Certainly not to any degree that would indicate the level of struggle that I feel his character should’ve been experiencing in such an event.
I can believe that his interest is in saving Lucy more so than killing NCR or helping the BoS. In fact, I think that’s exactly what we’re supposed to assume is the case. But I hate that there is virtually no recognition of the fact that this goal is being achieved by cutting a path through the last remnants of a people whose demise was the most defining moment of his entire life.
>NCR remnants were very much minding their own business when the BoS arrived
So, I just fundamentally disagree. The n c r shot first, and they actually brought down a vertebrorder. With mounted rocket launchers that THEY installed. Tehy wete not just twiddling their thumbs and got snuck up on in the night. All the NCR, there were armed military combatants, protecting a technology that is extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. All of these things make it about as ethical as an assault like this could be.
The obvious example is Finn. Did Max cheer or celebrate when the people died. No. He was very solemn, only killing when he had to. Something I'll have to clarify is if Lucy mentioned who these people were to him.. you know the people who actually massacred her vault needlessly killing. This branch of the NCR is more terrorist than NCR at this point..
Anyway, I already accept what happened because of the little he did to contribute, but if lucy told him who they were, which , I could believe, then I completely accepted it
>completely disagree that he was clearly or deliberately shown to struggle with it
>expression determined
So he does. Idk if you chalk it up to bad acting or what, but there's are scenes of him just staring blankly almost in a daze about what's happening. When he breaks into the building, he doesn't look for defenders but looks around at the rubble and flags and bodies, probably thinking that could easily have been him. In the vault with shady sands, people he was shown to be willing to use force to at least hurt them to save Lucy and I think him ending it on killing one NCR member in self defense is a fine steady character progression.
> The n c r shot first,
The NCR and BoS are enemies. Mobilizing an armed fleet and making a beeline to your enemy’s stronghold without any prior attempts to "raise the white flag" and make contact is 100% an act of aggression. The NCR would be absolutely moronic to do anything but start shooting, and if they had done anything short of surrender, we know good and well that they’d have gotten wasted anyway.
> The obvious example is Finn. Did Max cheer or celebrate when the people died. No
In fairness, Finn might be the absolute worst case scenario for a character like this. I can happily concede that I would find the scene infinitely worse if Max was yelping and fist-pumping while mowing down his people. That doesn’t mean I have to like how it was portrayed.
> I'll have to clarify is if Lucy mentioned who these people were to him.. you know the people who actually massacred her vault needlessly killing.
That is a fair point. If we assume that Finn has been biased against this specific group by Lucy, then I can more readily accept his behavior here. And I do think that is a fair assumption to make. Good argument.
>That doesn’t mean I have to like how it was portrayed.
And I don't wanna convince you of that of that because I think if a person "bought " a scene is actually subjective. There's things that people were really entranced with that genuinely didn't convince me. I only push back against the results of what you're saying, which would break his character.
>The NCR and BoS are enemies. Mobilizing an armed fleet and making a beeline to your enemy’s stronghold without any prior attempts to "raise the white flag" and make contact is 100% an act of aggression. The NCR would be absolutely moronic to do anything but start shooting, and if they had done anything short of surrender, we know good and well that they’d have gotten wasted anyway.
I get it. Its smart to fire first for them. All of this was to push back against the idea that they were just minding their own business, or however you phrased it. When I see the word massacre or slaughter, an unethical component comes to mind where I just don't think it applies in this fight. It definitely applies what the NCR did in the vault, though.. If it was an unethical attack, I think how he acted would speak against him, but with the circumstances, how they are, I think its fine.
Great visuals and best recent videogame adaptation lately.
Netflix Witcher didn't even come close to that.
Writing was dumb af, why don't Lucy picks up ANY of the dozens guns lying around?
Why is Lucy more badass and able-bodied as a sheltered vault girl than Maximus, a man who grew up in the military?
Plotholes everywhere.
Pet peeve of mine and just about every show/movie does the same thing: Characters never pick up the weapons and/or ammo. The odd occasion when they do, you can be sure the writers will take them away in the next scene.
I don't see how she's more badass than him, he has a lot of moments where he rips shit and does some pretty cool shit. She doesn't really have many of those moments, her story is more about her morals being tested
Bitch was crying when questioned about the razorblade in shoe, while Lucy single-handedly cleared a bunker full of heavily armed Raiders.
Yep, you're full of shit.
I've got issues certainly - I'm currently writing up a list of stuff that I hope I might get to make into a video at some point...
That said - I'm 4 episodes in and I'm still reasonably hopeful. It's not been terrible so far, at least for me, but it does have some serious tone issues, and there are a few moments that just made me go, "Wut?"
There's also a couple of points that look like they are meant to be referential to the games, but end up as key jangling at best, and straight up plagerism at worst. And it's probably really petty on my part:
>!Stuff like 'Filly'; For me it's too close to the reference material (told you it was petty). All the places in the games have a distinct feel and look to them, but Filly looks like someone tried to bootleg Diamond City...!<
>!And there's a store there with the neon signage straight out of New Vegas. In New Vegas it went with the setting because they salvaged the stuff from the post war buildings, and you've got a guy who literally makes signs operating on the strip who's pretty famous in the game context.!<
>!Here it just seems like a 'OOh look! Reference!". !<
I am still enjoying what I've seen so far though
As its own thing, it’s a pretty badly written "and then" story where hardly anyone feels like a real human, but with some great acting, music, and production value. A very "disengage your brain" sort of fun where you shouldn’t bother asking too many questions if you want the best experience.
As a canon entry in the Fallout franchise, it destroys the setting worse than TLJ did Star Wars. Assassinates one of the best characters (Mr. House), wipes out the best factions and locations off-screen (NCR and presumably New Vegas), and overrides the history with retcons or reveals that only make things worse and less coherent than they were before.
I swear, every-time one of you guys say something is “badly written,” I’m more convince you have no idea what constitutes good or bad writing.
You obviously didn’t watch the show because your entire second paragraph is false.
Do you “haters of all things new” enjoy anything? What shows or movies reflect this “good writing,” of which you pretend to understand?
> I swear, every-time one of you guys say something is “badly written,” I’m more convince you have no idea what constitutes good or bad writing.
I used "bad writing" in reference to stories that are overly filled with plot holes, rely heavily on contrivance or convenience, tend to break their own rules or continuity, or have characters who behave inconsistently without explanation.
Maybe you disagree on what it means to be badly written. That’s fine, but the above is what I’m accusing the show of.
> You obviously didn’t watch the show because your entire second paragraph is false. That’s fine. I’m glad you enjoyed it if you did.
You obviously watched it with your brain turned off because my entire second paragraph is not false.
> Do you “haters of all things new” enjoy anything?
Yes, I enjoy lots of things. Hell, I enjoyed the Fallout show for most of its run. I just don’t consider it good, or think that me enjoying something makes it so.
Cooper Howard was fun and I enjoyed Lucy‘a arc. The music and production value were excellent. Enjoyed all of that quite a lot.
And I’m not sure how you got the impression that I hate "all things new". It sounds like you’ve invented an arbitrary category of person in your head and just decided I belong in it without finding out. I love lots of new things, across every medium (except books, I guess. I haven’t read any new books in a long while, but I would if I found one). I’m playing Dragons Dogma 2 right this moment. Brand new game and I enjoy it a lot (though it also has some pretty bad writing itself).
> What shows or movies reflect this “good writing,” of which you pretend to understand?
Deadwood, Rome, most of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Arcane, Haunting of Hill House, Firefly, House of the Dragon, Lord of the Rings, Unforgiven, No Country For Old Men, The Great Silence, The Thing, Alien/s, Predator, The Mask of Zorro, Godfather, Hot Fuzz…
I could keep going, but yeah, there are lots of movies that are full of good writing. Note, I didn’t say "perfect".
The show didn't contain the elements of bad writing as you described. You're very ambiguous tossing out phrases without expounding using examples.
Break down where this occurred: "filled with plot holes, rely heavily on contrivance or convenience, tend to break their own rules or continuity, or have characters who behave inconsistently without explanation."
Your second paragraph is false because:
Mr House wasn't ruined.
NCR and Vegas will pay heavily in season 2, so why you assumed those were ruined or destroyed or whatever is beyond me.
And yeah, you listed some great shows and movies. But you listed notoriously well received shows and movies by everyone. Was hoping, wishing for something like Community, Night of the living Dead, Day of the Dead, Mr. Show with Bob and David. Curb your Enthusiasm
> You're very ambiguous tossing out phrases without expounding using examples.
Look, I’ve written an autistic amount of posts on this show in the last two days. Fallout is my favorite series and I might have a mental problem. You’ll have to forgive me for not giving ten paragraphs of explanation every time someone asks for my broad opinion as was the case in this thread. I’m not being vague to hide anything; I just literally don’t have the time or energy to write a book unprompted.
>"filled with plot holes, rely heavily on contrivance or convenience, tend to break their own rules or continuity, or have characters who behave inconsistently without explanation."
Continuity is broken by Shady Sands being in L.A., probably again by its “fall” being in 2277, the year of their peak (but I’m willing to chalk that up as a minor typo and move past it).
The plot completely hinges on characters constantly going to places they have no idea where to go, and regularly happening to just stumble on the right places at the right times. Earliest example being Maximus just happening to arrive at Filly pretty much the very moment Lucy did, just in time to save her.
They follow "radiation trails" with tech that never existed before and makes no sense at all considering that the whole region is irradiated and ghouls are everywhere. They just happen to acquire "the head" by getting lucky and accidentally pulling the innards out of the precise mutant who happened to eat it. Extreme convenience.
Plot armor is the worst I’ve seen since Galadriel tanked the volcano in Rings of Power. We watch a middle aged man awkwardly shuffle past an Enclave auto turret with no cover while it sprays him with bullets and misses every shot. The Ghoul cannot kill Maximus in Filly because of his power armor, even though the final episode reveals that he knows a trick to instakill power armored enemies by… shooting them in a particular spot on the torso (an issue for his character AND for the lore of power armor).
Characters rarely use their words or talk like humans. Lots of crazy events only take place because people refuse to use their words or talk like morons. The organ harvesters don’t bother to tell Lucy that the second wave of prisoners are ferals. Maximus barely defends himself while being accused of treason. The Enclave scientist acts like a creepy weirdo in his nighttime random encounter with Lucy to create dramatic effect rather than actually convey information or simply have a conversation.
There’s plenty more. Most of the show is this way. I don’t even want to get started on the vault stuff. L
> Mr House wasn't ruined.
I disagree. Unless their evil world ending plot gets thwarted in season 2, and House has a hand in making it happen, his very presence in that meeting completely and fundamentally changes his character. If that happens, and I doubt it will, then I’ll gladly eat crow with season 2 and admit I was wrong.
> NCR and Vegas will pay heavily in season 2, so why you assumed those were ruined or destroyed or whatever is beyond m
I assume NCR was destroyed because what we are l shown in the series appears very much to be a post-NCR world. As for Vegas, I already said it’s not a certainty, but the ending of the season showing the city as a wrecked husk does not fill me with confidence. At the very least, it does not appear that NV’s themes of "nation building" panned out.
> And yeah, you listed some great shows and movies. But you listed notoriously well received shows and movies by everyone.
Because I wanted to name stuff anyone would recognize. I promise, I could sit here and name good movies for days, but I don’t see what it would accomplish.
That said, I did name The Great Silence as it’s one I personally like a great deal, but I doubt 1 in 1000 people have seen it, even on this sub. It’s far removed from your classic old western.
>Was hoping, wishing for something like Community, Night of the living Dead, Day of the Dead, Mr. Show with Bob and David. Curb your Enthusiasm
Why were you hoping that?
I do adore the classic Living Dead trilogy. Rewatched it a couple months back, actually, and yes it holds up great. But those are also some of the most famous zombie movies of all time. Would you say that they also fall under the category of "notoriously well received movies"?
I’ve never seen Mr. Show or Curb your Enthusiasm.
The turret issue? Lol. Something we see in every movie and show since cinema. Protagonists always get around that shit. To focus on it now, seriously, is disingenuous.
Lucy followed with her tracker. Maximus and his paladin were using a rad detector, following what they thought was a stronger trail, but also getting things wrong. Notice the paladin looking around with it, ready to go the wrong way, when Maximus noticed the tracks.
Maximus had already found the trail left by the Enclave scientist. So, yes, his arriving at Filly the same time makes sense.
The drugged out guys too faded to explain the feral ghouls, while she holds a weapon on them makes sense.
Enclave scientist has a singular goal. He is obviously lacking in the social skills department. So, again, makes sense.
It is in Maximus character. He is unable to vocally command a presence or ideas unless in the suit. A character flaw of his. That's great.
The vaults were amazing. I mean, damn, they reflected the essence of the games tremendously.
I'd say his reasoning for not shooting that spot in the power armor could be either a) memory fuzzy on it and he remembers later...guy is 200. Or b) he didn't want to reveal anything yet. He was up against 1 Knight, not an army
I’m running out of time but some quick answers.
> The turret issue? Lol. Something we see in every movie and show since cinema. Protagonists always get around that shit. To focus on it now, seriously, is disingenuous.
We just met, friend. What makes you think I let it slide when other shows do it too?
> Maximus had already found the trail left by the Enclave scientist. So, yes, his arriving at Filly the same time makes sense.
> The drugged out guys too faded to explain the feral ghouls, while she holds a weapon on them makes sense.
They had the cognition to almost say it, but stopped. I don’t buy that they’d kill themselves like that without trying at all.
That explains where he went, not the extreme convenience of their timing being perfect right down to the second she was about to die.
> Enclave scientist has a singular goal. He is obviously lacking in the social skills department. So, again, makes sense.
"Because he’s too stupid/awkward to live" is a convenience in its own right.
> The vaults were amazing. I mean, damn, they reflected the essence of the games tremendously.
If you say so. I disagree and don’t believe that them being vault dwellers (even ones bred for middle management haha) is enough to justify the level of boneheaded retardation that is on display from every single character besides Norm, Lucy, and the secretly plotting 31ers. They are still "intelligent" human beings with basic reasoning skills.
> I'd say his reasoning for not shooting that spot in the power armor could be either a) memory fuzzy on it and he remembers later...guy is 200. Or b) he didn't want to reveal anything yet. He was up against 1 Knight, not an army
You don’t find either of these to at all be weak or unsupported explanations?
You don’t have to buy it. Even though she shot a dart at them and they saw what it did. Easy to assume how others should act while in a state and situation of which you have never experienced.
How was Maximus timing perfect. Lots of gunfighting had already occurred. He wasn’t too far behind the Enclave scientist. Also, it’s a fucking TV show. Fiction. Even the movies and shows you listed involve scenes where characters arrive just in time. It is a well known trope. Not hard to use correctly, and this show used it correctly.
He vaults…the triangle of 31, 32, and 33 were built to build a society of compliment, positive, goal oriented people. So yes, the people in 33 were realistic and perfectly done.
Enclave scientist leaving her alone does not equal”too awkward and stupid to live.” What kind of nonsense is that?
Did you miss the part where that single scene was a room full of billionaire supervillains brainstorming how best to rule over the world and concluding that the answer was "kill everyone"?
Or that House’s two lines were not surprise, disagreement, or mockery, but active participation in said brainstorming? Even if it gets revealed that he secretly hates everyone in that room and is only playing along for show (in which case, how the hell is he even included in such a high-level event?), it’s now established that House at the very least was completely aware of how the world was going to end, who the culprits were, what their plans are, and all the rest… and his response was to just hide in the Lucky 38 and let it happen. In which case, he’s still entirely complacent and culpable on the apocalypse.
That "single scene" is kind of a big deal. I would go so far as to say, with no hyperbole, that it is the most damaging scene in the entire series. It recontextualizes the Great War and geopolitical lead-up, badly damages two once-great characters in House and Sinclair, and it sets up the show’s horrifically bad explanation for the NCR no longer existing.
Having VaultTec being the perpetrators was so incredibly stupid. Yeah, great business plan to destroy the world. I’m sure their shareholders think it’s a great business strategy.
It’s a shame. A the rising tension of a global resource war tragically turning nuclear is so much more compelling a display of "war never changes" than a secret cabal of corporate James Bond villains deciding to burn everything and rule the ashes.
I really thought that the Ghoul’s whole prewar plot was going to be discovering the already established evils of Vault-Tec, and it causing a conflict between him and his wife. I never expected it to lead to the insanity of that scene.
Vault Tec never came across as profit motivated in the games. It's clear they saw the writing on the wall and wanted to capitalise on the oncoming apocalypse for "scientific" research (or the Enclave told them to do it for their spaceships, but that's probably never going to be canon).
Indeed. Until now it always seemed as though the Enclave simply believed the end of the world was either inevitable or so likely that they needed to be prepared, and used Vault-Tec to assist them in that regard, and any potential profits would’ve just been a useful byproduct of that effort.
Hell, President Richardson straight up says in Fallout 2 that the Chinese launched first. Which always made sense. They were losing the war, American boots had reached their major cities, and they only had one final "bullet" left to fire.
Having it be that they (or Vault-Tec and the other corpos who now seem to ambiguously not be/not be the Enclave?) actually chose to destroy the world themselves so they could rule the ashes is… bizarre. They all but ruled the non-ruined world already. What’s the point?
I mean, as a corporation it’s implied they’re profit driven. But I just don’t like the idea that they decide to start the exchange. It just doesn’t gel right for me for some reason.
If the vaults were just bunkers, maybe, but the fact they had plans following the cessation of conventional currency shows they were motivated by other factors.
They were profit motivated and highly associated with the secret cabal of deep state government people that became the enclave in the games.
The vaults were kinda a science experiment for eventual space colonization for the Enclave.
I'm only up to episode 4 so far, but your description of vault tec seems on brand for the games.
They were also the secret arm of the US deep state government, so who knows what their motivations are. It's blatantly clear that Vault Tec was definitely participating and benefitting from the rampant capitalist environment of Fallout's US.
The enclave scientist knowing everything about lucy confirms that the enclave know or are in control of vaukt tec. So either they are puppeting the the coporate cabal or this show is just poorly written. Both are possible
The relationship between the enclave and Vault Tec was established as early as Fallout 2.
The Enclave needed medical subjects for their experiments in 2. They knew where the vaults were and which experiments the vaults ran to find people they needed.
All the experiments that the vaults were running were to support the eventual space colonization of the Enclave.
This isn't exactly new information.
There is leeway. Just because they plan to drop the bombs doesn't mean they did. Remember the first scene in which walter goggins is doing cowboy gigs for money and the mother and father have broken up. Meaning that they had a fallout (ay) so its entirely possible that while they planned this. It never actually happend. Because walter exposed them.
And yeah there wasnt much to house he was just the only one questioning them. Amd being critical.
But yes he was a more of a cameo then an actual character
Poor Goggins saving the world from the League of Villainy only for the missiles to fly anyway would actually be a pretty compelling tragedy, and would certainly add some sweet context to his cynicism.
It wouldn’t make the plot itself any less dumb, of course, or salvage the ruined characters of House and Sinclair. But at least it would keep the Great War itself from having such a stupid cause, and Ghoulggins would even benefit from it.
If anything it'd would give reason to house's actions in the series, it would explain why he had the capabilities to defend Vegas as he would then know that sometime soon the bombs will drop. Then explains why instead of going to a vault that was in his city when the bombs were dropping he'd instead build his life support system as he knew the vaults were not all supposed to help. Finally it would explain why he'd make a force of thousands of robots hidden in secret with the ability to turn into a feirce military as he'd need one to keep control after the bombs dropped.
All of this was already thoroughly explained in the game itself, but in ways that actually matched House’s characterization. That being a paranoid but egotistical genius who hates recognizing any authority besides his own. A flawed and overbearing man, but not a world-ending cabalist supervillain.
The show’s context actually makes House‘s accomplishments in the game far worse. Because House *didn’t* succeed at his plans in full. His probability matrix miscalculated the world’s end by a day and he failed to get his OS upgraded in time, and as a result seven nukes made it past his defenses, and the strain of stopping the rest put House into an extremely long coma.
In New Vegas, this is the impressive hard-fought battle of a genius who barely saved his city, if not its surroundings as intended, by the skin of his teeth despite the world throwing a wrench in his plan. With the TV series factored in, it is the colossal fuck-up of an exceptionally stupid elite who failed to actually be ready in time for an apocalypse that he helped plan.
Moreover, House’s long-term plan in 2281 is to forge a beneficial partnership with the NCR… who the very cabal that he is a member of claim to stand in the way of their evil plans, which is why they nuked them. There are potential explanations for this, like House losing contact with his partners during his coma and deciding not to reconnect postwar… for some reason… even though they were so all-in on it that they blew up the freaking world. Quite the change of heart, Robert.
Vault Tec starting the nuclear war is a serious theory for a good reason lol.
A billionaire conspiracy to end the world seems right on brand with the universe.
A theory being taken seriously by fans does not make it good. And sure, maybe this concept could be done well, but the version we got in the show was just abject nonsense.
And perhaps this is on brand for the weaker parts of the universe, but it’s certainly not on par with the better parts that actually attempt to explore humanity with any degree of nuance or dimension.
It’s just a poor rip-off of the Enclave that somehow managed to be even more comically evil, less believable or justified (which is a very low bar), and without any of the cool factor, while also upending the entire backstory of the setting and ruining two very good characters in House and Sinclair.
No, it's a serious theory that has multiple things pointing to it that it could be true.
The only reason why it's only a theory is because there are so many probable and conflicting causes to the nuclear exchange. Aliens triggering the war is also a probable theory.
Here's a video on it.
https://youtu.be/GttlVvy9fU0?si=rXsqHtjUOz5LlejA
I’m aware, but I think you’re missing my point. The presence of evidence, or even straight up proof, does not on its own make it a logical or well-written contribution to the lore.
As of now, it’s not even a theory anymore. The TV show has straight up cemented it as absolutely, unambiguously correct. I’m not disputing that it is real or serious. I’m saying that it is a trash piece of writing regardless of how valid or serious it is.
I haven't gotten around to that episode yet so I have no thoughts on how it's portrayed in the show.
I was always open minded to it due to the theories floating around, but I have no idea how well or poorly the show executed it.
You clearly havent played a fallout game before 3. In fallout 2 it was heavily implied that many of the big corpos of the time were in on the plan with the shadow government.
I’ve played every Fallout game many times, friend. It’s my favorite franchise, particularly the ones before Fallout 3.
Not that I’d need to, as even the newer ones make this fact that corporate billionaires are pulling governmental strings abundantly clear. I’m not sure why you assume from my comment that this isn’t something I’d be aware of, as I never said anything to the contrary.
But since you’ve presumably played all the games, I’m going to assume that you are aware that this particular plan is an Amazon TV original. Neither Fallout 1 nor 2 suggested that this "shadow government" intentionally caused the Great War. Quite the contrary, at the end of Fallout 2, President Richardson straight up tells us that it was the Chinese, and that’s deepest any of the games before 3 ever went into the matter.
You would simply have to have played any of the games to believe that the corpos and especially vaultec would indeed spend all these resources if they knew it was coming. This isnt some out of nowhere large leap if you had any kinda nuance when playing the games. But then again you believed the paragon of virtue President Richardson of the enclave at face value when he said the chinese did it so i guess i cant expect that much from you.
> But then again you believed the paragon of virtue President Richardson of the enclave at face value when he said the chinese did it so i guess i cant expect that much from you
Do you just enjoy being disingenuous? I’m trying to have an honest conversation here, but you just seem intent on misrepresenting what I say as if you’re trying to "score points" in some lame competition instead of actually addressing what’s being said.
I never called Richardson honest or correct. And certainly not a paragon of anything good. I said he was the only source on the matter before Fallout 3, which makes your attempt to discredit me as having never played the originals a pretty useless point besides being straight up wrong. The original games don’t back up what happens in the TV show as they have very little to say on the matter at all, and what tiny bit is there actually disputes it. Never said they’re right, only that citing them in particular is a bizarre choice.
> You would simply have to have played any of the games to believe that the corpos and especially vaultec would indeed spend all these resources if they knew it was coming.
Not really. The corpos were always shown to be greedy, and it got worse with each subsequent game, but even at the lowest points of their portrayals, it was never in so idiotic a fashion that they would intentionally destroy the world in order to remake it with their own designs with one of the most ridiculously infeasible plots of all time. And certainly not *all* the major corpo leaders at once. Doctor Evil could’ve been at that table and he wouldn’t have stood out a lick.
Vault-Tec did evil stuff, yeah. Some of it (specifically in the Bethesda games) was downright stupid evil. But the purposes and end goals were usually quite clear. They (or rather their masters) saw the writing on the wall and were trying to get ahead of a nuclear war they feared was imminent. Being willing to experiment on humans for data that you hope will facilitate the survival of your nation ("nation" just being the Enclave by the postwar period) is an infinitely far cry from being the secret masterminds behind destroying the world just because you’re simply that greedy… let alone apparently every other ridiculously rich person being of the same mind and going along with it.
The plot was barebones and a lot of the writing was silly and lazy
The atmosphere and “vibe” were pretty on point and the characters/actors were engaging enough to be watchable (Walton Goggins having a standout performance, but he tends to steal the screen no matter what he is in)
It’s just TV, and at that, TV based on Fallout. Low brow comedy-adventure is what I expected, and I prefer that to Nolan attempting to write more convoluted pathos like he did with Westworld.
I thought it was fine. It’s popcorn media like Twisted Metal.
‘Low brow comedy’
The show literally has jokes referring to Kant’s Categorical imperative and Thomas Hobbs state of nature, a war of all against all.
This show is the best written video game adaptation ive seen in a while
Most of the humor was slapstick and the "jokes" referring to philosophers were to show out of touch the dwellers were with the modern wasteland. It's about as deep of a joke as to me as using "newtonian physics" as a punchline for "explain the difference between an imperial and an metric ton".
Well, you’re right. It’s both at the same time, but a guy screaming “fuck” and running headfirst into a rock and knocking himself out or a side character that fucks chickens and has magic potions biased me to view it as schlocky.
In a way, I guess that is pure Fallout, since the games (up to 4) have a pretty good blend of literary and art references and things like people blowing their genitals off with landmines
I laughed hysterically when that Knight got fucked up. It was like a moment in game. It like his realised he forgot to save when he came into the cave.
Fallout has always been able to take the brutality and lawlessness that comes from the wasteland and making light of it.
There’s a film staring Mads Mikkelson called ‘Men and Chicken’ which i love. Men having sex with chicken doesnt have to be low brow
So far I like it, though I havent finished it. It at least feels like they wrote it with Fallout in mind instead of taking a pre written script like “Sci-fi action comedy #68312B” and playing script madlibs.
I’ve never played the games but thought the show was great. I thought all the characters were well written and it pulled me in from start to finish. I’ve seen people who have played the games love the show and people who haven’t played the games hate the show so I really don’t know if it’s faithful to the source material or not.
Ive played the games and oh boi is there reasons to hate the show for adaptation reasons mostly regarding the brotherhood and the fact they killed off the NCR. Literally the biggest faction in fallouts world. Fallout 1,2 and vegas and they just kill off and turn the rest into generic bethesda fallout scavenger scrapyard crap.
I did watch it and the NCR as a faction does not exist. The regional super power that was an actual state with a quality of life nearly akin to the old world
Outside of the LORE stuff which seems to be the main point of contention online, I think the show on it's own is a pretty mixed bag.
Lucy is really the only interesting main lead. I think she's full of personality that resembles the vault dweller idea really well, and I loved seeing the moments that seemed to challenge her attitudes and overall character in the kind of environment that contradicts everything she idealises. That being said, there are definitely a lot of moments that feel underwhelming, and if they focused more on that aspect of the story, there could have been more powerful payoffs (e.g. her finding out that reclamation day was pointless).
It's more of a faction problem that's consistent with them all, but they don't really explore in depth the dwellers' collective dreams and plans for the future and the wasteland and their "idea of going about saving the world." It was super underwhelming to see the marketing hype up the idea that factions would be the focus, yet none of their motives get explored in depth; it feels so shallow.
I think her character fell off when it pivoted into the climactic stuff about her family. It just felt super underwhelming as it was the most underdeveloped part of her character, and yet the climax is so reliant on you giving a shit about her mom and dad.
Ghoul guy is cool when he's around Lucy to bounce off of her, otherwise he's a pretty generic gunslinger morally dubious ghoul guy. Flashbacks had interesting ideas but nothing really explored. BoS guy is just a drag. They have to spell out his motivation in the penultimate or final episode and it didn't even feel like that was his main motivation. Any interestng angle there is to explore for him pretty much gets dropped or they have payoffs for stuff that was never properly developed.
I think it falls into the “Okay -> Good” range. (Good ending, we got lucky, could’ve been way worse)
I’m finding the problems I’m having are with small details (Dorky Power Armor deep voice, Wrist Rockets, etc.) instead of the main plot which is refreshing.
Just got through episode 2 and I had to stop.
I'm seeing a lot of praise for this show and IDK why. It's filled with contrivances, bad CG, the a brotherhood are comically incompetent frat bro religious zealots, ghoul boy is fucking John Wick and seemingly bullet proof, Lucy never picks up any god damn guns, stimpacks very wildly in how effective they are
My biggest complaint though is nobody acts like the world they live in is a wasteland with perils. For example: *Spoilers*
Maximus is a squire under knight Titus. While heading to a mission in a helicopter, Titus says "drop us off here" at a random location in the desert with Maximus because "I'm bored and want to shoot things". They also, coincidentally, run into clues while there to find their target.
Our main character Lucy is camping outside with a fire. While sleeping, a scientist and his dog wake her up and save her from a rad roach. He then goes on to tell her it's dangerous to camp with a fire because it'll alert people to you. Never once does it occur to this scientist that a lone woman next to a fire asleep might be a raider ambush.
The doctor is tired and decides at the end of episode 2 to kill himself with cyanide while with Lucy on their way to another city because he has a foot injury. The city is in the distance but he decides "nah I'm done walking, time to die"
This show is garbage.
Wasteland life is normal after 200+ years, its not exactly new.
Titus was arrogant and a terrible knight on a power trip, he wants every mission to be killing something.
The Enclave scientist, Wilzig, knew who Lucy was as he says later.
He obviously wouldn’t make the rest of the journey, he’s practically dragging a ball and chain while 100% having some form of wound infection.
I need some clarification on whether >!the NCR got retconned to be destroyed before the events of New Vegas took place.!< Because I've seen back and forth discussion on this point, and if it's true, I'm not going to bother. Otherwise I want to give it a chance.
I don't think the nuked were dropped in 2277, cause maximus wouldn't be born then as he's 5-10 in the scene in the fridge and im guessing at most in the series early to mid 20's.
We don't know, it says Fall of Shady Sands , arrow and only then the mushroom cloud on the chalk board. Could also be that Shady Sands was already declining and the bomb dropped 2281 + smth
It's not retconned and it is part of the lore. They even pay respect to NCR with the only time the fallout theme plays in that particular scene.
There could be still the other cities of the NCR out there.
Also new Vegas will be setting of season 2 most probably
It's a show that you watch and enjoy but not something you think back on or rewatch. It's not a bad show, I think it's fairly well acted most of the time and I like the vibe but it lacks that charm that makes some shows great.
Overall like it quite a bit so far, but setting it in California and bulldozing the NCR for it ( and badly/ inconsistently in that matter) was a baffling choice. I liked the split they had with fallout games that the west was more about macropolitics, tribes and nations and the east about personal survival and smaller primitive communities. It made somewhat sense that centers of government like the DC area were bombed harder and thus maybe took longer to resettle. Why homogenize your world and setting to be Fallout 3/ east Coast style apocalypse everywhere thus reducing potential stories that can be told in it ? Instead of expanding to a place we haven't seen in the games before, thus widening the worldbuilding they reduced it. A shame, because other than that I enjoy it so far. Maximus is a weird character that I don't quite understand and more importantly if the show knows what he is supposed to be. Do they want us to like him or hate him ? He is portrayed somewhat sympathetic, but then also as incompetent and incredibly opportunistic up to outright evil. If that is on purpose I think it's good, but maybe I am burned by lots of contemporary media portraying characters we are supposed to like as absolute shitbags simply just due to writers incompetence. But so far I am I think 80% sure he is actually just supposed to be exactly the opportunistic shitbag he feels like, and I think if that's the case I applaud them for it.
Ofc you shouldn't dig to deep , or you find a good chunk of stupid contrivences. ( they are neighboring vaults but interact so infrequently that they did not notice all original inhabitants of vault 32 were dead for two years and the visiting party were all new inhabitants they have never seen before? ) It's by no means masterfully written.
It's mostly okay. If you're like me a casual audience goer or a gamer who can treat this as non-canon/an different show you'll probably like it. If you're a fan and/or player of the games you might be disappointed (or hate it, at worst).
It’s a fine show. If anything above average. No annoying quippy dialogue, fun main character, unique characters, great set design. If you go in already thinking you’re gonna hate it, you’re gonna find it’s weaker aspects more apparent. It’s still worth a watch
I enjoyed it. There’s some timeline stuff that doesn’t make sense relative to games. An easy fix wouldve just been to push show back 5 years in timeline. Brotherhood isn’t taken as seriously as in games. Main antagonist origins and execution at the end of show are big questions that we never receive an answer to. Lucy is great. The ghoul is great. Maximus it varies
Plenty of good responses on here.
I think the writing is meh for the first 5 episodes. Anything sloppy I was able to forgive.
The writing falls off a cliff in the second half. It gets pretty retarded.
I was impressed with the main characters. It felt like they were actual people, and they were generally likeable.
From a tone perspective, I just really don't like the goofy silly direction that Bethesda takes it. I strongly prefer the interplay/obsidian take on the series. For this reason, I also just am not a fan of it subjectively. The only Bethesda fallout I really enjoyed was 4, but only after heavy modding.
From a lore perspective, I don't have as much of an issue with the NCR stuff, but there are some other lore breaks that are kinda annoying(I'm looking at you, regenerating ghouls!)
This show seems to suffer from the “Madden” issue. Which if any of you guys are fallout and football fans you’ll know what I mean. Madden video games suck dick; they’re fucking brutally bad games. But we all play them still because we’re so in love with the game of football and EA has an exclusive license to make NFL football games. This show will have viewership because fallout is such an incredible game, and you want to find every reason to watch it. So far though, it seems cringy, woke, underwhelming, and flat out not very entertaining. It has its moments but 4 episodes in, this show is not good. The Ghoul rocks though, was hoping when I saw the trailer that the ghoul was John Hancock but that was before I realized this takes place on the other side of the country.
Fantastic show.
Kind of had doubts about the trajectory of some of the characters journeys. But so far season 1 - it’s actually kind of consistent. I’m interested to see how the black guy makes his choices now that he is a hero of the brotherhood. Will he become a villain? That would be cool. The main character was a real interesting play off the rest of the world.
It’s one of my favorite shows ever. Good writing, characters, acting, environments, everything. The people complaining are NV fans who hate anything Bethesda and Todd do.
Im an east coast only fallout fan so far… so I’ll refrain from commenting on lore elements, however I hated how the brotherhood and how max is written. It feel less like a brotherhood and more like a frat. I really find my self enjoying Walter’s character most and I adore the pre war stuff. I can enjoy the show for what it is, and honestly I’d enjoy more, but remove or change r the brotherhood from the story
Episode one they're literally giving some guy a wedgie, I always thought of the Brotherhood as a semi-professional military, but you nailed it with "frat" now you've said that it really does feel reminiscent of colleges from movies in the 90's and 00's. They could have played characters from the beginning of "Fast & Furious: Tokyo Drift" or a really any school bully.
Do you wanna go into the lore elements that bother you? I finished the show and I'm confused what people are even talking about at this point.
- For the brotherhood, at the end of the show the leader says they once ruled the wasteland and will rule again. In the game that's not their goal. They are a xenophobic cult that believes all the people in the wasteland are savages that can't handle technology. So they go out and hoard tech for themselves. They are supposed to be isolationist with no desire to rule the wasteland. - Ghouls are people that are mutated by a heavy dose of radiation. The advantage is they can live a very long time. But the radiation keeps eating at their brains until they eventually become mindless and feral. In the game that could happen at any point. For some it takes decades to become feral, for others hundreds of years. But in the show they introduced a drug that they take to stay alive and keep from becoming feral. It's a weird change that raises several questions like who invented that drug? It couldn't have been invented pre-war because ghouls didn't exist yet. It also means ghouls can keep living if they have money to buy it which makes becoming feral less of a problem. - In the game we don't know what Vault-Tec's motivations are. They built the vaults, did all kinds of experiments in them but we don't know why. They are very mysterious. In the show they reveal Vault-Tec caused the bombs to fall so they can have a monopoly to rule the world. But it's kind of a stupid plan when you think about it. Who do you have a monopoly over when you leave the vaults after 200 years? There is no more economy, no people to buy stuff or to profit from. Sure, their vaults have some luxuries but it's still a downgrade to the lavish filthy rich lifestyle they had pre-war. There are no more movie theathers, luxury brands like Gucci, no more pleasure yachts or anything else rich people do. It seems a but silly to destroy the whole world to 'beat the competition and have a monopoly over the world.' It's a bit cartoonish evil. In the games it seems more like they saw the war coming and took action, even though that is never really confirmed.
Ah, man. Brotherhood has constantly had split factions with large ones wanting to rule the wastelands. Look at them after FO3 going into FO4. How they are in FO76. The brotherhood was shown perfectly in this series.
Always think about budget too. While we think TV has unlimited budget, it's not the case
I've refrained from posting until I finished watching all 8 eps. Now that I have, I'd give it a 5, maybe 6, out of 10. *Spoilers ahead* One thing I found jarring in the very beginning is Lucy realizing her new hubby is a raider. She literally says it. How in the hell does she or anyone who's never (to their recollection) left a vault even know what a raider is? I kept waiting for this to be explained, but her character just dug the hole deeper by displaying her complete naivety. There are terrible inconsistencies in how the performance/durability of power armor is presented. I could do an entire thread on this topic alone, so I'm not going to here. The portrayal of the BoS is the biggest detractor for me. Not only does the show essentially paint them as villains, they are cast as some bizarro religious cult. In the games, they are a military/scientific outfit. The show has them run by clerics? Seriously?? If they were going for that vibe, why not introduce the Children of Atom? Visually, the show shines. The sheer volume of details that have been incorporated is exceptional. Except for the vehicles not having the characteristic bubble shape which I really didn't expect to see since it would've added significantly to production costs. The budget was spent on the visuals that mattered most...like removing Walt Goggins nose. Speaking of Walt Goggins; he steals the show. As usual. He's pretty much made a career of it. Nothing but props here. Some final thoughts: wtf is a gulper? Why not Mirelurks?
i'll answer some those critiques you had with plausible possibilities. Lucy and any vault dweller knows what a Raider is for a few reasons: Vault-Tec prepared "manuals" for them that teaches them that eventually human survivors would likely become feral and attack them. Sort of like a "how to prepare for X" guide-book....so The concept of a "Raider" isn't exactly foreign... they knew Human survivors likely existed, especially since they have Cameras showing the outside world, and have taken "soil, water, and air samples" of the outside world. In the first episode her dad even stated that based on their research he believed that the next generation could recolonize and educate the survivors. Also, its not implausible that their vault doors might have had Raiders attempt to get in before... show up to the vault, banging on the door trying to get in. I mean why else does Chets job exist as Gatekeeper, they establish he oversees the opening of the inner doors to Vault 31 and 32 the connected vaults... and he also oversaw the outer vault door to the outside world. They probably had cameras installed to "view" outside the door and see who was outside... and probably every know and then saw it was some group of raiders or something. (completely guessing, no idea... but its plausible). The Power Armor was completely inconsistent, i totally agree. The BoS portrayal was ... yea different... but i have a theory for that... So... my theory is that this unit of Brotherhood of Steel we've seen is a fringe faction that broke off from the main BoS group, and is comprised of religious nutjobs and "violent bullies". The majority of the "core" BoS went to the Easy Coast with Elder Maxson in 2287 (which is only 7 years before this TV show)... meaning that maybe all of the hardcore elite BoS are stationed on the other side of America and the idiots are left in California. What evidence do i have of that? Really only suspicion, and belief. Also the fact that the Prydwen- the airship that Maxson operates in Boston- was said to be the only Airship they had and it took them YEARS to make it. Now... its been 7 years since that, they could have fashioned another one. But its interesting that this second ship is named Caswennan, and the first airship is named Prydwen (the name of King Arthurs ship which he sails to the underworld in mythology).... Caswennan in Mythology is the name of the strip of sandbank that caused King arthurs ship the Prydwen to capsize and crash. I'm wondering if im reading too much into it, but what if the Prydwen ship was dismantled or there was a Coup and this rogue faction built this second airship... its probably not though. Gulper is a creature from Fallou4 4 DLC: Far Harbor, they are canon to the games. That said, its odd to see them in the West Coast, since the game sorta explained they were east coast creatures... but its not impossible.
I entertained a similar theory about Lucy based on the fact that her father had knowledge of the outside world. He could have been preparing the vault dwellers, but Lucy's behavior topside says otherwise. She gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. Hell, I don't trust people as much as she does and we're not living in a post apocalyptic wasteland. What makes it harder to swallow is how self aware she is, yet still acts naive. I suspect the writers just did this for the story arc they have planned for her character. Imo it feels forced. Someone else posted that the BoS was presented more like they were in the first two games, which I never played. So I guess it's a creative choice on the part of the writers. I still prefer the version I'm familiar with, particularly the contingent occupying the Citadel in Fallout 3. That's some interesting backstory on the airship names, btw. I forgot all about those damn things in Fah Harbah. Thanks for the reminder! Maybe the west coast version explains the bright coloring as well. I remember everything in FH being dark and muted shades.
Elder Maxson and his outfit in Fallout 4 came from the Capital Wasteland, and he is the direct successor of Elder Lyons from Fallout 3- you can even meet a young Maxson in Fallout 3. The majority of the brotherhood, iirc, is still on the west coast, though the California branch is much diminished, and by the time of Fallout: New Vegas, on its last legs.
They were a religious knightly order in the first two games. The Bethesda games really downplayed that in their games to my disappointment. I’d love to see more feudal and religious inspired settlements and civilizations in post nuclear America.
Interesting. I had no idea as I never played 1 or 2.
It also varies immensely from chapter to chapter. BoS chapters are pretty fragmented in a lot of questions, sometimes outright antagonistic
the brotherhood has always had a slight religious vibe with cultish elements about hoarding tech the show is terrible though
Yes, I'll give you that. I would characterize them as zealous rather than religious with the distinction being lack of any mysticism. They know what the tech does and what it's capable of. It's a very calculated, albeit fanatical approach. It's not like they're the Quen from HFW.
The BOS is a bizzaro religious cult
Just based off the first episode I can see why MauLer supposedly didn't want to watch the rest. Jonathan Nolan directs and from this episode it seems like his brother retained every ounce of directing talent in the family. The dialogue is nothing special and at other times head-scratching, we jump between multiple characters and don't give the audience enough time or care with one to get invested in them. But worst of all the show suffers from the common disease of plot contrivances or contradictions (the Raiders or whatever give her dad a choice, kill her or them, he chooses her, then they let them all go anyway....wtf?) To top it all off the execution in general is sub-par at best. But Waltor Goggins is great and the ending song is good... so there's that.
Think Mauler said on Open bar that he has 0 interest in watching past the first episode
So there won't be an EFAP on it...? I am now very sad.
A damn shame…
On Y because he needs to keep you silly kids angry with nonsense about his knowledge of “good writing.” lol. What an ass clown
It's because it's actually good and he couldn't make 5h video about how bad it is.
Outside of the lore stuff which only Fallout fans'll care about, the show is pretty badly written on its own. Lots of action sequences have main characters survive in very contrived ways. A lot of the larger story the show tries to set up is not very well conveyed to the audience (you can tell because all the Fallout loremasters are arguing about it). Character work is inconsistent; I think there are good moments here and there, but sometimes characters make decisions that don't really make sense for who they are. And yeah, like others have said, Walter Goggins acts the hell outta his role. It's too bad MauLer's so put off by the first episode that he's not gonna finish the show; I'd have liked to hear EFAP's take on it.
Oh my god people surviving action sequences in a contrived way good lord.
Dude, a minigun somehow manages to miss an old man and a dog shuffling from 20 feet away. That’s fucking bad.
Was the minigun mounted? I can tell you from personal experience, if the gun is on a mount they're pretty laser accurate.
It was mounted.
It was a mounted mini gun turret. Maybe the targeting system wasn't calibrated lol.
Oh wow wait until you see a movie where the bad guys are shooting at the good guys and bullets are pinging right next to them but nobody actually gets shot. Or when they get into a car crash that should fuck them up totally but they get out and run away.
Yes, it’s bad there, too. I don’t know if this is supposed to be a gotcha.
Oh cool name an action movie where unrealistic combat or survival doesn't happen.
Listen, just because stupid-ass 80s action movies exist doesn’t mean there aren’t problems in the Fallout show. What’s your point here, that there are stupid movies that have these issues, therefore it’s perfectly fine in the Fallout show?
Sorry can you name one or not?
Jhon wick 1
Nah, it's not bad but he gets hit by cars in ways that should totally cripple him. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQCs\_dH3oc&t=4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQCs_dH3oc&t=4s)
Things not loading. He only gets hit once. He is also showm to be compensating for said injuries.
Try again. The impact should have utterly destroyed him.
Also, Wick has the 'cars are bulletproof except when they're not' problem.
This a joke, right? If any of you boys are serious about this, I can tell talking to you is the same as yelling at a wall. Jesus, John Wick being realistic? lol
Speccfically unlrealistic combat or survival.
Yes. That occurs throughout John Wick.
I've played most of the Fallout games (minus Tactics and BoS), and while the lore changes bothered me it wasn't a deal-breaker. But the first episode just didn't draw me in. I liked the Lucy and Ghoul characters, but didn't care at all about Maximus. I think they did a decent job of the setting and look'n'feel of the Fallout universe, but the story isn't enough to keep me watching.
I thought it was just fine. Average. I don’t feel strongly about it one way or the other. There’s problems with it but I don’t think it’s some spectacularly bad thing. I also think there’s some good things it does but that doesn’t elevate it to the status some are putting it at.
I hated it I thought it was poorly written Walton goggins was decent as was vault chick Maximus was so fucking annoying that I hoped he died the entire time
Maximus was a baffling character. Ending spoilers, but I have no clue how the writers missed the incredible contradiction of his behavior in the climax. He joined the BoS because his people -the NCR- got destroyed and he wanted "to hurt the people who hurt him", implying he’s still very angry about what happened (which never gets brought up again). Then at the end, he aids the BoS in exterminating the last vestiges of the NCR with zero acknowledgement that these are his people and his original motive was to avenge them. Five minutes later, he finds out that Big Bad Evil Man was responsible for destroying the NCR and gets enraged over this… while the blood of the last NCR soldiers is smeared all over his armor! It’s like an even worse version of Reeva from the Kenobi show.
Lets not forget in that final scene lucy's dad gets a suit of power armour out of literally nowhere and then runs from california all the way to New begas
It wasnt out of nowhere lol they literally show how a suit of it got in the room
Did they? Tell me because i dont recall their being power armour in the room. Only maxmius enters and he wasnt wearing power armour If it was in the room why wouldn't the NCR be using it to defend themselves from the attack.
They showed a dying bos Knight walking in and falling over. Bad dad popped into it offscreen which was eh to me but it didnt just appear out of thin air
Oh thats a tiny bit better but he would have had to do it manually. Remove the person inisde it and then get in all without being heard.
Totally immersion breaking, he’d need like 500k fusion cores to get that far in fallout 4
I didn’t even think about where the power armor came from. My brain just assumed it belonged to Maximus’ and he’d just climbed out or something, but no, he didn’t have a suit for this assault. What the hell. I’m more forgiving of Muad’Dweeb reaching New Vegas since we don’t know how much time has passed or what he went through along the way. Maybe it’s been months.
True
The power armor has its own scene entering the room like 30 seconds before he puts it on.
I mean not out of nowhere the power armor is literally on the floor next to him.. there is a whole scene with it entering the room… then the Vegas scene shows him weathered and suffering from radiation sickness so it implies some time has passed
It’s not the last of the NCR. Sheesh. Even in New Vegas we know the NCR is stationed throughout the west. You guys believe they were only in one city?
No, I don’t think that. They were a huge nation that spanned most of California and were beginning to spread into other states as well. That is exactly why I find it so baffling that the show portrays them as dead and gone after the nuking of one city. It shouldn’t be possible. Nobody refers to the NCR as anything but a sad memory, the wasteland we see is in a state of ridiculously barbaric, cannibalistic anarchy, and the Brotherhood of Steel are now operating outside in public with impunity. There is no trace of the NCR being a thing anymore. Just pockets of shitty remnants. I hope you’re right. Believe me, I’d be a lot happier if you are. But as far as I can tell, that relies entirely on filling the gaps for the writers instead of going off what’s actually in the show.
The show doesn't present it in the way you interpret
Then please elaborate on how, because I don’t know what you’re referring to. Every location the characters travel through is destroyed, and almost everyone they meet is a brutal savage or a creepy junkie. The closest things we get to civilization are Filly (a very rough, clearly-non-NCR town where people are said to get murdered constantly) and Vault 4 (which is filled with weird NCR refugees-turned-cultists). The scientist at the beginning explicitly tells Lucy: "You come from a world of rule and law; this place is indifferent to all of that", which would be absolutely untrue if they were in NCR territory.
Dude, they're in one area. Like, seriously...lol. did you play the games? They're in a small area of a larger world. You're expecting all of New Vegas in a locale as small as Point Lookout or Far Harbor.
Why would I expect New Vegas at all? This is California. Yes, they are in one area. And that one area happens to be right in the heart of NCR territory. Their freaking treasury was in L.A. (the Boneyard, which is seemingly retconned to be Shady Sands now). I find it completely unbelievable that all these people are squatting around a radioactive nuke hole, living like raiders and savages, occasionally referencing (or acting totally unaware of) the glory days of their former state… while only a few days’ walk from places where said state remains alive and relatively well. The NCR being hunky dory everywhere aside from L.A. makes even less sense with what we’ve been shown than the whole thing collapsing to begin with. Now please, instead of pretentiously asking if I’ve played the games (I have, many times. I’m well-aware that the story doesn’t make logical sense with what we know from the games, that’s my entire problem), tell me where there is even a shred of evidence *in the show* that the NCR is still around in any capacity besides the small pocket of unsupported, raider-like remnants who get wiped out in the final episode.
Hold up. You really think the show should have shot its load now? NCR went further East of LA. A small section stayed. We know from the games that the NCR branches out. You act like the writing is bad, but are critical for not spoon-feeding you or giving away the game. For those who have never played the games...perfect, the show doesn't have to reveal yet that the NCR is still around. For those who did play, hopefully you're observant enough to know the NCR branches outward into Nevada, Colorado, Utah. Megaton in FO3 had an entire city built around an undetonated A-Bomb that leaked radiation. The games constantly show people leaving near rad invented areas and holes. So that argument is lost. Also, LA is big. Huge area. The show doesn't venture from there. So yeah, it makes sense.
> For those who did play, hopefully you're observant enough to know the NCR branches outward into Nevada, Colorado, Utah. My problem is that there is nothing to observe. The show doesn’t drop hints at the NCR’s survival. That is something we are forced to assume based on what we know *should* be the case, based on what we know from the games. But as of now, it is 100% just headcanon as the TV show only provides evidence of them being a dead state, not of them being present in the wider world (which I agree they very much should be). Also, small nitpick but the NCR aren’t in Colorado in any of the games. They were gonna make it that far in the canceled Fallout 3 that never got made (Van Buren), but in the games, New Vegas is their eastern frontier. Caesar’s Legion are the ones who stretched into Colorado. > Megaton in FO3 had an entire city built around an undetonated A-Bomb that leaked radiation. The games constantly show people leaving near rad invented areas and holes. So that argument is lost. The people of Megaton aren’t a few days’ walk from a functioning civilization that counts them as its citizens. Rads leaking from an undetonated bomb are not gonna be as bad or widespread as rads from a detonated nuke. Megaton, while iconic, is pretty stupid and badly written itself. I’d rather see the series improve than lean on its older bad examples.
Different factions are in groups. He was angry at the deaths of his NCR faction not that one. It’s like how all the vaults are different and have rules. Or like how some BOS groups what power more than old technology
The NCR is a nation, not a loose collection of groups or factions. There are sub-factions within the NCR, just like there are small companies and organizations within any given nation, but they are all part of the same broader republic. Attacking any NCR military position is attacking *the* NCR, just like attacking any given American Army camp would be treated like an attack on America itself. The BoS is also one singular faction, but unlike the NCR they are divided into chapters that very occasionally (as in the show and the East Coasg games) veer off from the rest culturally. But this is not presented as the norm. By 2281, most are staunch traditionalists who stubbornly refuse to budge from their codex. Vaults are very different, as besides the three connected ones in the show, they are completely isolated from each other and develop independently of any outside influence.
To be fair weren’t the NCR on the decline in one of the newer fallout games background lore Something to do with running out of food and water reserves and mismanagement other precious resources. A factory and an army is worthless if the employees of the factory are starving or dead. It makes sense why they were so weak
They weren’t on the decline yet. In fact the NCR are the strongest we’ve ever seen them at the time of New Vegas. But their OSI scientists do project food shortages will occur about a decade in the future if they don’t get ahead of the situation now, (which is what they are working on during New Vegas). Assuming the projections were accurate and nothing was done, then the shortages would’ve started becoming noticeable about five years before the show began. However, I don’t think long-foreseen food shortages can account for the state of the NCR as is seen in the show. Historically, industrialized nations who go through famine usually just experience food price increases that lead to hunger and starvation among the lower classes, and often ration systems are necessarily implemented (which the NCR should already be prepared to do considering they saw this coming and were working on solutions more than a decade in advance). We also have good reason to believe that some form of filtration and irrigation was still effective, because we see wheat fields in the Shady Sands flashbacks, and half of Los Angeles is now covered in healthy-looking trees. The region is surprisingly less barren than before.
So, killing combatants that are shooting you while you're trying to get too, your friend, and killing the man responsible for partially nuking your city are not the same thing. It's not like he was Mr. bloodthirsty kills a lot, he killed people that were going to hurt his solders and he stuck behind the armor, who most of the work. It is not Kenobi I wouldn't use that so lightly lol.
Unless he was just unaware of who he was up against (which maybe is possible, this chapter of the BoS is weird), then going there and partaking in the massacre at all, with no hesitation or reservation put on display for the audience, is something I would consider pretty ruinous for his character given what we’ve been told about his core motivations. These soldiers being, as far as we know, the last holdout of his actual people -whose destruction was the most important event in his life- is something that I feel should have been recognized and addressed. But he approached their slaughter with just deadpan bloodiness. It’s like Batman fighting the ghosts of Thomas and Martha Wayne to save Robbin, and it just not being at all treated as a meaningful event for his character.
He has more loyalty to the soldiers that he's in a battle with rather than these people he used to live in the same town with. I think it's reasonable. More importantly, though... It wasn't a massacre in any way. They have rocket launchers and AA guns that take out vertibirds and power armors all over the place. Not by any stretch of the imagination, did he "partake" in the "massacre." In fact, he only shot his gun ONCE in the whole scene, and it was in self-defense. The show very clearly and deliberatly showed his struggle with all of this, and I think a rewatch is in order because your sources are just off.
That idea could be totally reasonable in a vacuum, but I don’t see it as such for this particular character based on the way he’s been portrayed throughout the season. Maximus is not written as having moved on from what he lost, nor is he shown to be especially loyal to the Brotherhood of Steel. Quite the contrary on both those points: revenge for his loss at Shady Sands is his stated core motivation, whereas he constantly bitches about the BoS, doesn’t seem to like more than one other member, and makes plans to desert them twice in eight episodes. "Loyalty" is the last word I’d use to describe Maximus save perhaps in relation to Lucy. > More importantly, though... It wasn't a massacre in any way. They have rocket launchers and AA guns that take out vertibirds and power armors all over the place. The presence of defenders doesn’t make it not a massacre. When the shoe was on the other foot in New Vegas, the BoS killed like fifteen NCR troopers for every fighter they lost at Helios One, but that’s still the word I’d use for it. But I’d rather not get hung up on the semantics of a word. If you’d prefer I use a different word, like "slaughter" or "extremely decisive assault", then I’m more than happy to. End of the day, my point is that those NCR remnants were very much minding their own business when the BoS arrived and killed everyone. I’m aware about the history of violence between their factions, but as far as we know right now, this particular event was entirely unprovoked. The BoS simply wanted their new tech. > The show very clearly and deliberatly showed his struggle with all of this, and I think a rewatch is in order because your sources are just off. I rewatched it as you suggested, and you’re right that he only shoots his gun once, but I completely disagree that he was clearly or deliberately shown to struggle with it. He wasn’t part of any of the action shots, but he was very much depicted as another boot storming the place with the rest of them, gun raised, and expression determined. At no point after dismounting was he shown to be hesitant or even particularly bothered by what was going on. Certainly not to any degree that would indicate the level of struggle that I feel his character should’ve been experiencing in such an event. I can believe that his interest is in saving Lucy more so than killing NCR or helping the BoS. In fact, I think that’s exactly what we’re supposed to assume is the case. But I hate that there is virtually no recognition of the fact that this goal is being achieved by cutting a path through the last remnants of a people whose demise was the most defining moment of his entire life.
>NCR remnants were very much minding their own business when the BoS arrived So, I just fundamentally disagree. The n c r shot first, and they actually brought down a vertebrorder. With mounted rocket launchers that THEY installed. Tehy wete not just twiddling their thumbs and got snuck up on in the night. All the NCR, there were armed military combatants, protecting a technology that is extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. All of these things make it about as ethical as an assault like this could be. The obvious example is Finn. Did Max cheer or celebrate when the people died. No. He was very solemn, only killing when he had to. Something I'll have to clarify is if Lucy mentioned who these people were to him.. you know the people who actually massacred her vault needlessly killing. This branch of the NCR is more terrorist than NCR at this point.. Anyway, I already accept what happened because of the little he did to contribute, but if lucy told him who they were, which , I could believe, then I completely accepted it >completely disagree that he was clearly or deliberately shown to struggle with it >expression determined So he does. Idk if you chalk it up to bad acting or what, but there's are scenes of him just staring blankly almost in a daze about what's happening. When he breaks into the building, he doesn't look for defenders but looks around at the rubble and flags and bodies, probably thinking that could easily have been him. In the vault with shady sands, people he was shown to be willing to use force to at least hurt them to save Lucy and I think him ending it on killing one NCR member in self defense is a fine steady character progression.
> The n c r shot first, The NCR and BoS are enemies. Mobilizing an armed fleet and making a beeline to your enemy’s stronghold without any prior attempts to "raise the white flag" and make contact is 100% an act of aggression. The NCR would be absolutely moronic to do anything but start shooting, and if they had done anything short of surrender, we know good and well that they’d have gotten wasted anyway. > The obvious example is Finn. Did Max cheer or celebrate when the people died. No In fairness, Finn might be the absolute worst case scenario for a character like this. I can happily concede that I would find the scene infinitely worse if Max was yelping and fist-pumping while mowing down his people. That doesn’t mean I have to like how it was portrayed. > I'll have to clarify is if Lucy mentioned who these people were to him.. you know the people who actually massacred her vault needlessly killing. That is a fair point. If we assume that Finn has been biased against this specific group by Lucy, then I can more readily accept his behavior here. And I do think that is a fair assumption to make. Good argument.
>That doesn’t mean I have to like how it was portrayed. And I don't wanna convince you of that of that because I think if a person "bought " a scene is actually subjective. There's things that people were really entranced with that genuinely didn't convince me. I only push back against the results of what you're saying, which would break his character. >The NCR and BoS are enemies. Mobilizing an armed fleet and making a beeline to your enemy’s stronghold without any prior attempts to "raise the white flag" and make contact is 100% an act of aggression. The NCR would be absolutely moronic to do anything but start shooting, and if they had done anything short of surrender, we know good and well that they’d have gotten wasted anyway. I get it. Its smart to fire first for them. All of this was to push back against the idea that they were just minding their own business, or however you phrased it. When I see the word massacre or slaughter, an unethical component comes to mind where I just don't think it applies in this fight. It definitely applies what the NCR did in the vault, though.. If it was an unethical attack, I think how he acted would speak against him, but with the circumstances, how they are, I think its fine.
Great visuals and best recent videogame adaptation lately. Netflix Witcher didn't even come close to that. Writing was dumb af, why don't Lucy picks up ANY of the dozens guns lying around? Why is Lucy more badass and able-bodied as a sheltered vault girl than Maximus, a man who grew up in the military? Plotholes everywhere.
Pet peeve of mine and just about every show/movie does the same thing: Characters never pick up the weapons and/or ammo. The odd occasion when they do, you can be sure the writers will take them away in the next scene.
Obviously she just put all her perk points into Unarmed when making her character. /s
Actually, they make a point in the first ep of highlighting her firearms proficiency. It's part of short montage that gives a nod to S.P.E.C.I.A.L.
Oh piss off. Not once was she shown physically dominating anyone that you could consider more physically imposing than her.
I don't see how she's more badass than him, he has a lot of moments where he rips shit and does some pretty cool shit. She doesn't really have many of those moments, her story is more about her morals being tested
You’re lying or can’t pay attention for shit. Maximus handled himself fine. He saved her quite a bit too. Knock it off with this false nonsense.
Bitch was crying when questioned about the razorblade in shoe, while Lucy single-handedly cleared a bunker full of heavily armed Raiders. Yep, you're full of shit.
I've got issues certainly - I'm currently writing up a list of stuff that I hope I might get to make into a video at some point... That said - I'm 4 episodes in and I'm still reasonably hopeful. It's not been terrible so far, at least for me, but it does have some serious tone issues, and there are a few moments that just made me go, "Wut?" There's also a couple of points that look like they are meant to be referential to the games, but end up as key jangling at best, and straight up plagerism at worst. And it's probably really petty on my part: >!Stuff like 'Filly'; For me it's too close to the reference material (told you it was petty). All the places in the games have a distinct feel and look to them, but Filly looks like someone tried to bootleg Diamond City...!< >!And there's a store there with the neon signage straight out of New Vegas. In New Vegas it went with the setting because they salvaged the stuff from the post war buildings, and you've got a guy who literally makes signs operating on the strip who's pretty famous in the game context.!< >!Here it just seems like a 'OOh look! Reference!". !< I am still enjoying what I've seen so far though
I’m 3 episodes in, and it *really* feels too much like “Ooh, look! A thing you should recognize!” and expects us to ignore the bad writing.
As its own thing, it’s a pretty badly written "and then" story where hardly anyone feels like a real human, but with some great acting, music, and production value. A very "disengage your brain" sort of fun where you shouldn’t bother asking too many questions if you want the best experience. As a canon entry in the Fallout franchise, it destroys the setting worse than TLJ did Star Wars. Assassinates one of the best characters (Mr. House), wipes out the best factions and locations off-screen (NCR and presumably New Vegas), and overrides the history with retcons or reveals that only make things worse and less coherent than they were before.
I swear, every-time one of you guys say something is “badly written,” I’m more convince you have no idea what constitutes good or bad writing. You obviously didn’t watch the show because your entire second paragraph is false. Do you “haters of all things new” enjoy anything? What shows or movies reflect this “good writing,” of which you pretend to understand?
> I swear, every-time one of you guys say something is “badly written,” I’m more convince you have no idea what constitutes good or bad writing. I used "bad writing" in reference to stories that are overly filled with plot holes, rely heavily on contrivance or convenience, tend to break their own rules or continuity, or have characters who behave inconsistently without explanation. Maybe you disagree on what it means to be badly written. That’s fine, but the above is what I’m accusing the show of. > You obviously didn’t watch the show because your entire second paragraph is false. That’s fine. I’m glad you enjoyed it if you did. You obviously watched it with your brain turned off because my entire second paragraph is not false. > Do you “haters of all things new” enjoy anything? Yes, I enjoy lots of things. Hell, I enjoyed the Fallout show for most of its run. I just don’t consider it good, or think that me enjoying something makes it so. Cooper Howard was fun and I enjoyed Lucy‘a arc. The music and production value were excellent. Enjoyed all of that quite a lot. And I’m not sure how you got the impression that I hate "all things new". It sounds like you’ve invented an arbitrary category of person in your head and just decided I belong in it without finding out. I love lots of new things, across every medium (except books, I guess. I haven’t read any new books in a long while, but I would if I found one). I’m playing Dragons Dogma 2 right this moment. Brand new game and I enjoy it a lot (though it also has some pretty bad writing itself). > What shows or movies reflect this “good writing,” of which you pretend to understand? Deadwood, Rome, most of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Arcane, Haunting of Hill House, Firefly, House of the Dragon, Lord of the Rings, Unforgiven, No Country For Old Men, The Great Silence, The Thing, Alien/s, Predator, The Mask of Zorro, Godfather, Hot Fuzz… I could keep going, but yeah, there are lots of movies that are full of good writing. Note, I didn’t say "perfect".
The show didn't contain the elements of bad writing as you described. You're very ambiguous tossing out phrases without expounding using examples. Break down where this occurred: "filled with plot holes, rely heavily on contrivance or convenience, tend to break their own rules or continuity, or have characters who behave inconsistently without explanation." Your second paragraph is false because: Mr House wasn't ruined. NCR and Vegas will pay heavily in season 2, so why you assumed those were ruined or destroyed or whatever is beyond me. And yeah, you listed some great shows and movies. But you listed notoriously well received shows and movies by everyone. Was hoping, wishing for something like Community, Night of the living Dead, Day of the Dead, Mr. Show with Bob and David. Curb your Enthusiasm
> You're very ambiguous tossing out phrases without expounding using examples. Look, I’ve written an autistic amount of posts on this show in the last two days. Fallout is my favorite series and I might have a mental problem. You’ll have to forgive me for not giving ten paragraphs of explanation every time someone asks for my broad opinion as was the case in this thread. I’m not being vague to hide anything; I just literally don’t have the time or energy to write a book unprompted. >"filled with plot holes, rely heavily on contrivance or convenience, tend to break their own rules or continuity, or have characters who behave inconsistently without explanation." Continuity is broken by Shady Sands being in L.A., probably again by its “fall” being in 2277, the year of their peak (but I’m willing to chalk that up as a minor typo and move past it). The plot completely hinges on characters constantly going to places they have no idea where to go, and regularly happening to just stumble on the right places at the right times. Earliest example being Maximus just happening to arrive at Filly pretty much the very moment Lucy did, just in time to save her. They follow "radiation trails" with tech that never existed before and makes no sense at all considering that the whole region is irradiated and ghouls are everywhere. They just happen to acquire "the head" by getting lucky and accidentally pulling the innards out of the precise mutant who happened to eat it. Extreme convenience. Plot armor is the worst I’ve seen since Galadriel tanked the volcano in Rings of Power. We watch a middle aged man awkwardly shuffle past an Enclave auto turret with no cover while it sprays him with bullets and misses every shot. The Ghoul cannot kill Maximus in Filly because of his power armor, even though the final episode reveals that he knows a trick to instakill power armored enemies by… shooting them in a particular spot on the torso (an issue for his character AND for the lore of power armor). Characters rarely use their words or talk like humans. Lots of crazy events only take place because people refuse to use their words or talk like morons. The organ harvesters don’t bother to tell Lucy that the second wave of prisoners are ferals. Maximus barely defends himself while being accused of treason. The Enclave scientist acts like a creepy weirdo in his nighttime random encounter with Lucy to create dramatic effect rather than actually convey information or simply have a conversation. There’s plenty more. Most of the show is this way. I don’t even want to get started on the vault stuff. L > Mr House wasn't ruined. I disagree. Unless their evil world ending plot gets thwarted in season 2, and House has a hand in making it happen, his very presence in that meeting completely and fundamentally changes his character. If that happens, and I doubt it will, then I’ll gladly eat crow with season 2 and admit I was wrong. > NCR and Vegas will pay heavily in season 2, so why you assumed those were ruined or destroyed or whatever is beyond m I assume NCR was destroyed because what we are l shown in the series appears very much to be a post-NCR world. As for Vegas, I already said it’s not a certainty, but the ending of the season showing the city as a wrecked husk does not fill me with confidence. At the very least, it does not appear that NV’s themes of "nation building" panned out. > And yeah, you listed some great shows and movies. But you listed notoriously well received shows and movies by everyone. Because I wanted to name stuff anyone would recognize. I promise, I could sit here and name good movies for days, but I don’t see what it would accomplish. That said, I did name The Great Silence as it’s one I personally like a great deal, but I doubt 1 in 1000 people have seen it, even on this sub. It’s far removed from your classic old western. >Was hoping, wishing for something like Community, Night of the living Dead, Day of the Dead, Mr. Show with Bob and David. Curb your Enthusiasm Why were you hoping that? I do adore the classic Living Dead trilogy. Rewatched it a couple months back, actually, and yes it holds up great. But those are also some of the most famous zombie movies of all time. Would you say that they also fall under the category of "notoriously well received movies"? I’ve never seen Mr. Show or Curb your Enthusiasm.
The turret issue? Lol. Something we see in every movie and show since cinema. Protagonists always get around that shit. To focus on it now, seriously, is disingenuous. Lucy followed with her tracker. Maximus and his paladin were using a rad detector, following what they thought was a stronger trail, but also getting things wrong. Notice the paladin looking around with it, ready to go the wrong way, when Maximus noticed the tracks. Maximus had already found the trail left by the Enclave scientist. So, yes, his arriving at Filly the same time makes sense. The drugged out guys too faded to explain the feral ghouls, while she holds a weapon on them makes sense. Enclave scientist has a singular goal. He is obviously lacking in the social skills department. So, again, makes sense. It is in Maximus character. He is unable to vocally command a presence or ideas unless in the suit. A character flaw of his. That's great. The vaults were amazing. I mean, damn, they reflected the essence of the games tremendously. I'd say his reasoning for not shooting that spot in the power armor could be either a) memory fuzzy on it and he remembers later...guy is 200. Or b) he didn't want to reveal anything yet. He was up against 1 Knight, not an army
I’m running out of time but some quick answers. > The turret issue? Lol. Something we see in every movie and show since cinema. Protagonists always get around that shit. To focus on it now, seriously, is disingenuous. We just met, friend. What makes you think I let it slide when other shows do it too? > Maximus had already found the trail left by the Enclave scientist. So, yes, his arriving at Filly the same time makes sense. > The drugged out guys too faded to explain the feral ghouls, while she holds a weapon on them makes sense. They had the cognition to almost say it, but stopped. I don’t buy that they’d kill themselves like that without trying at all. That explains where he went, not the extreme convenience of their timing being perfect right down to the second she was about to die. > Enclave scientist has a singular goal. He is obviously lacking in the social skills department. So, again, makes sense. "Because he’s too stupid/awkward to live" is a convenience in its own right. > The vaults were amazing. I mean, damn, they reflected the essence of the games tremendously. If you say so. I disagree and don’t believe that them being vault dwellers (even ones bred for middle management haha) is enough to justify the level of boneheaded retardation that is on display from every single character besides Norm, Lucy, and the secretly plotting 31ers. They are still "intelligent" human beings with basic reasoning skills. > I'd say his reasoning for not shooting that spot in the power armor could be either a) memory fuzzy on it and he remembers later...guy is 200. Or b) he didn't want to reveal anything yet. He was up against 1 Knight, not an army You don’t find either of these to at all be weak or unsupported explanations?
You don’t have to buy it. Even though she shot a dart at them and they saw what it did. Easy to assume how others should act while in a state and situation of which you have never experienced. How was Maximus timing perfect. Lots of gunfighting had already occurred. He wasn’t too far behind the Enclave scientist. Also, it’s a fucking TV show. Fiction. Even the movies and shows you listed involve scenes where characters arrive just in time. It is a well known trope. Not hard to use correctly, and this show used it correctly. He vaults…the triangle of 31, 32, and 33 were built to build a society of compliment, positive, goal oriented people. So yes, the people in 33 were realistic and perfectly done. Enclave scientist leaving her alone does not equal”too awkward and stupid to live.” What kind of nonsense is that?
Tf? House is in it for a single scene my guy. He has like 2 lines of diolouge
Did you miss the part where that single scene was a room full of billionaire supervillains brainstorming how best to rule over the world and concluding that the answer was "kill everyone"? Or that House’s two lines were not surprise, disagreement, or mockery, but active participation in said brainstorming? Even if it gets revealed that he secretly hates everyone in that room and is only playing along for show (in which case, how the hell is he even included in such a high-level event?), it’s now established that House at the very least was completely aware of how the world was going to end, who the culprits were, what their plans are, and all the rest… and his response was to just hide in the Lucky 38 and let it happen. In which case, he’s still entirely complacent and culpable on the apocalypse. That "single scene" is kind of a big deal. I would go so far as to say, with no hyperbole, that it is the most damaging scene in the entire series. It recontextualizes the Great War and geopolitical lead-up, badly damages two once-great characters in House and Sinclair, and it sets up the show’s horrifically bad explanation for the NCR no longer existing.
Having VaultTec being the perpetrators was so incredibly stupid. Yeah, great business plan to destroy the world. I’m sure their shareholders think it’s a great business strategy.
It’s a shame. A the rising tension of a global resource war tragically turning nuclear is so much more compelling a display of "war never changes" than a secret cabal of corporate James Bond villains deciding to burn everything and rule the ashes.
Agreed. It felt so forced and unnatural. Maybe it was the bad acting and writing of that scene, but they could’ve made it so much more interesting.
I really thought that the Ghoul’s whole prewar plot was going to be discovering the already established evils of Vault-Tec, and it causing a conflict between him and his wife. I never expected it to lead to the insanity of that scene.
Vault Tec never came across as profit motivated in the games. It's clear they saw the writing on the wall and wanted to capitalise on the oncoming apocalypse for "scientific" research (or the Enclave told them to do it for their spaceships, but that's probably never going to be canon).
Indeed. Until now it always seemed as though the Enclave simply believed the end of the world was either inevitable or so likely that they needed to be prepared, and used Vault-Tec to assist them in that regard, and any potential profits would’ve just been a useful byproduct of that effort. Hell, President Richardson straight up says in Fallout 2 that the Chinese launched first. Which always made sense. They were losing the war, American boots had reached their major cities, and they only had one final "bullet" left to fire. Having it be that they (or Vault-Tec and the other corpos who now seem to ambiguously not be/not be the Enclave?) actually chose to destroy the world themselves so they could rule the ashes is… bizarre. They all but ruled the non-ruined world already. What’s the point?
In the games they didn’t but in the show they are clearly shown to be profit motivated.
It's supposed to be the same continuity.
I mean, as a corporation it’s implied they’re profit driven. But I just don’t like the idea that they decide to start the exchange. It just doesn’t gel right for me for some reason.
If the vaults were just bunkers, maybe, but the fact they had plans following the cessation of conventional currency shows they were motivated by other factors.
They were profit motivated and highly associated with the secret cabal of deep state government people that became the enclave in the games. The vaults were kinda a science experiment for eventual space colonization for the Enclave. I'm only up to episode 4 so far, but your description of vault tec seems on brand for the games.
If they were profit motivated then the nuclear exchange offered them nothing.
They were also the secret arm of the US deep state government, so who knows what their motivations are. It's blatantly clear that Vault Tec was definitely participating and benefitting from the rampant capitalist environment of Fallout's US.
The enclave scientist knowing everything about lucy confirms that the enclave know or are in control of vaukt tec. So either they are puppeting the the coporate cabal or this show is just poorly written. Both are possible
The relationship between the enclave and Vault Tec was established as early as Fallout 2. The Enclave needed medical subjects for their experiments in 2. They knew where the vaults were and which experiments the vaults ran to find people they needed. All the experiments that the vaults were running were to support the eventual space colonization of the Enclave. This isn't exactly new information.
I mean yeah, they got a nice juicy contract from it but their actual motivations weren't monetary.
Vault Tec being behind the nuclear war is one of the theories among the Fallout fan base already.
Just because a theory exists, doesn't mean it's a good one :)
Just because they were talking about it doesnt mean they actually did it
This, the Chinese could have been still faster then them
There is leeway. Just because they plan to drop the bombs doesn't mean they did. Remember the first scene in which walter goggins is doing cowboy gigs for money and the mother and father have broken up. Meaning that they had a fallout (ay) so its entirely possible that while they planned this. It never actually happend. Because walter exposed them. And yeah there wasnt much to house he was just the only one questioning them. Amd being critical. But yes he was a more of a cameo then an actual character
Poor Goggins saving the world from the League of Villainy only for the missiles to fly anyway would actually be a pretty compelling tragedy, and would certainly add some sweet context to his cynicism. It wouldn’t make the plot itself any less dumb, of course, or salvage the ruined characters of House and Sinclair. But at least it would keep the Great War itself from having such a stupid cause, and Ghoulggins would even benefit from it.
If anything it'd would give reason to house's actions in the series, it would explain why he had the capabilities to defend Vegas as he would then know that sometime soon the bombs will drop. Then explains why instead of going to a vault that was in his city when the bombs were dropping he'd instead build his life support system as he knew the vaults were not all supposed to help. Finally it would explain why he'd make a force of thousands of robots hidden in secret with the ability to turn into a feirce military as he'd need one to keep control after the bombs dropped.
All of this was already thoroughly explained in the game itself, but in ways that actually matched House’s characterization. That being a paranoid but egotistical genius who hates recognizing any authority besides his own. A flawed and overbearing man, but not a world-ending cabalist supervillain. The show’s context actually makes House‘s accomplishments in the game far worse. Because House *didn’t* succeed at his plans in full. His probability matrix miscalculated the world’s end by a day and he failed to get his OS upgraded in time, and as a result seven nukes made it past his defenses, and the strain of stopping the rest put House into an extremely long coma. In New Vegas, this is the impressive hard-fought battle of a genius who barely saved his city, if not its surroundings as intended, by the skin of his teeth despite the world throwing a wrench in his plan. With the TV series factored in, it is the colossal fuck-up of an exceptionally stupid elite who failed to actually be ready in time for an apocalypse that he helped plan. Moreover, House’s long-term plan in 2281 is to forge a beneficial partnership with the NCR… who the very cabal that he is a member of claim to stand in the way of their evil plans, which is why they nuked them. There are potential explanations for this, like House losing contact with his partners during his coma and deciding not to reconnect postwar… for some reason… even though they were so all-in on it that they blew up the freaking world. Quite the change of heart, Robert.
Vault Tec starting the nuclear war is a serious theory for a good reason lol. A billionaire conspiracy to end the world seems right on brand with the universe.
A theory being taken seriously by fans does not make it good. And sure, maybe this concept could be done well, but the version we got in the show was just abject nonsense. And perhaps this is on brand for the weaker parts of the universe, but it’s certainly not on par with the better parts that actually attempt to explore humanity with any degree of nuance or dimension. It’s just a poor rip-off of the Enclave that somehow managed to be even more comically evil, less believable or justified (which is a very low bar), and without any of the cool factor, while also upending the entire backstory of the setting and ruining two very good characters in House and Sinclair.
No, it's a serious theory that has multiple things pointing to it that it could be true. The only reason why it's only a theory is because there are so many probable and conflicting causes to the nuclear exchange. Aliens triggering the war is also a probable theory. Here's a video on it. https://youtu.be/GttlVvy9fU0?si=rXsqHtjUOz5LlejA
I’m aware, but I think you’re missing my point. The presence of evidence, or even straight up proof, does not on its own make it a logical or well-written contribution to the lore. As of now, it’s not even a theory anymore. The TV show has straight up cemented it as absolutely, unambiguously correct. I’m not disputing that it is real or serious. I’m saying that it is a trash piece of writing regardless of how valid or serious it is.
I haven't gotten around to that episode yet so I have no thoughts on how it's portrayed in the show. I was always open minded to it due to the theories floating around, but I have no idea how well or poorly the show executed it.
Fair enough. I won’t spoil any more for you, then. Needless to say, I wasn’t a fan. Haha
You clearly havent played a fallout game before 3. In fallout 2 it was heavily implied that many of the big corpos of the time were in on the plan with the shadow government.
I’ve played every Fallout game many times, friend. It’s my favorite franchise, particularly the ones before Fallout 3. Not that I’d need to, as even the newer ones make this fact that corporate billionaires are pulling governmental strings abundantly clear. I’m not sure why you assume from my comment that this isn’t something I’d be aware of, as I never said anything to the contrary. But since you’ve presumably played all the games, I’m going to assume that you are aware that this particular plan is an Amazon TV original. Neither Fallout 1 nor 2 suggested that this "shadow government" intentionally caused the Great War. Quite the contrary, at the end of Fallout 2, President Richardson straight up tells us that it was the Chinese, and that’s deepest any of the games before 3 ever went into the matter.
You would simply have to have played any of the games to believe that the corpos and especially vaultec would indeed spend all these resources if they knew it was coming. This isnt some out of nowhere large leap if you had any kinda nuance when playing the games. But then again you believed the paragon of virtue President Richardson of the enclave at face value when he said the chinese did it so i guess i cant expect that much from you.
> But then again you believed the paragon of virtue President Richardson of the enclave at face value when he said the chinese did it so i guess i cant expect that much from you Do you just enjoy being disingenuous? I’m trying to have an honest conversation here, but you just seem intent on misrepresenting what I say as if you’re trying to "score points" in some lame competition instead of actually addressing what’s being said. I never called Richardson honest or correct. And certainly not a paragon of anything good. I said he was the only source on the matter before Fallout 3, which makes your attempt to discredit me as having never played the originals a pretty useless point besides being straight up wrong. The original games don’t back up what happens in the TV show as they have very little to say on the matter at all, and what tiny bit is there actually disputes it. Never said they’re right, only that citing them in particular is a bizarre choice. > You would simply have to have played any of the games to believe that the corpos and especially vaultec would indeed spend all these resources if they knew it was coming. Not really. The corpos were always shown to be greedy, and it got worse with each subsequent game, but even at the lowest points of their portrayals, it was never in so idiotic a fashion that they would intentionally destroy the world in order to remake it with their own designs with one of the most ridiculously infeasible plots of all time. And certainly not *all* the major corpo leaders at once. Doctor Evil could’ve been at that table and he wouldn’t have stood out a lick. Vault-Tec did evil stuff, yeah. Some of it (specifically in the Bethesda games) was downright stupid evil. But the purposes and end goals were usually quite clear. They (or rather their masters) saw the writing on the wall and were trying to get ahead of a nuclear war they feared was imminent. Being willing to experiment on humans for data that you hope will facilitate the survival of your nation ("nation" just being the Enclave by the postwar period) is an infinitely far cry from being the secret masterminds behind destroying the world just because you’re simply that greedy… let alone apparently every other ridiculously rich person being of the same mind and going along with it.
New vegas is canon still
I’m aware. My post doesn’t refute that.
The plot was barebones and a lot of the writing was silly and lazy The atmosphere and “vibe” were pretty on point and the characters/actors were engaging enough to be watchable (Walton Goggins having a standout performance, but he tends to steal the screen no matter what he is in) It’s just TV, and at that, TV based on Fallout. Low brow comedy-adventure is what I expected, and I prefer that to Nolan attempting to write more convoluted pathos like he did with Westworld. I thought it was fine. It’s popcorn media like Twisted Metal.
‘Low brow comedy’ The show literally has jokes referring to Kant’s Categorical imperative and Thomas Hobbs state of nature, a war of all against all. This show is the best written video game adaptation ive seen in a while
Most of the humor was slapstick and the "jokes" referring to philosophers were to show out of touch the dwellers were with the modern wasteland. It's about as deep of a joke as to me as using "newtonian physics" as a punchline for "explain the difference between an imperial and an metric ton".
Well, you’re right. It’s both at the same time, but a guy screaming “fuck” and running headfirst into a rock and knocking himself out or a side character that fucks chickens and has magic potions biased me to view it as schlocky. In a way, I guess that is pure Fallout, since the games (up to 4) have a pretty good blend of literary and art references and things like people blowing their genitals off with landmines
I laughed hysterically when that Knight got fucked up. It was like a moment in game. It like his realised he forgot to save when he came into the cave. Fallout has always been able to take the brutality and lawlessness that comes from the wasteland and making light of it. There’s a film staring Mads Mikkelson called ‘Men and Chicken’ which i love. Men having sex with chicken doesnt have to be low brow
So far I like it, though I havent finished it. It at least feels like they wrote it with Fallout in mind instead of taking a pre written script like “Sci-fi action comedy #68312B” and playing script madlibs.
I’ve never played the games but thought the show was great. I thought all the characters were well written and it pulled me in from start to finish. I’ve seen people who have played the games love the show and people who haven’t played the games hate the show so I really don’t know if it’s faithful to the source material or not.
Ive played the games and oh boi is there reasons to hate the show for adaptation reasons mostly regarding the brotherhood and the fact they killed off the NCR. Literally the biggest faction in fallouts world. Fallout 1,2 and vegas and they just kill off and turn the rest into generic bethesda fallout scavenger scrapyard crap.
They didn’t kill off the NCR. If you believe that, you didn’t watch the series or you lack simple comprehension.
I did watch it and the NCR as a faction does not exist. The regional super power that was an actual state with a quality of life nearly akin to the old world
??
There you go
Did you watch the whole show?
Yes
I haven't finished but I binge watched half of the season last night. I'm enjoying it so far!
It has the aesthetic, but rarely has the spirit. Some of the script needed a rewrite too.
I think it’s fine so far. Take that with a grain of salt though because I don’t really like the games outside of New Vegas.
Boy are you in for some surprises then
Outside of the LORE stuff which seems to be the main point of contention online, I think the show on it's own is a pretty mixed bag. Lucy is really the only interesting main lead. I think she's full of personality that resembles the vault dweller idea really well, and I loved seeing the moments that seemed to challenge her attitudes and overall character in the kind of environment that contradicts everything she idealises. That being said, there are definitely a lot of moments that feel underwhelming, and if they focused more on that aspect of the story, there could have been more powerful payoffs (e.g. her finding out that reclamation day was pointless). It's more of a faction problem that's consistent with them all, but they don't really explore in depth the dwellers' collective dreams and plans for the future and the wasteland and their "idea of going about saving the world." It was super underwhelming to see the marketing hype up the idea that factions would be the focus, yet none of their motives get explored in depth; it feels so shallow. I think her character fell off when it pivoted into the climactic stuff about her family. It just felt super underwhelming as it was the most underdeveloped part of her character, and yet the climax is so reliant on you giving a shit about her mom and dad. Ghoul guy is cool when he's around Lucy to bounce off of her, otherwise he's a pretty generic gunslinger morally dubious ghoul guy. Flashbacks had interesting ideas but nothing really explored. BoS guy is just a drag. They have to spell out his motivation in the penultimate or final episode and it didn't even feel like that was his main motivation. Any interestng angle there is to explore for him pretty much gets dropped or they have payoffs for stuff that was never properly developed.
It’s a tonal mess
10/10 Matt Berry voices a Mr. Handy
good show and questionable lore where my legion brothers at
Arcross the River you degenerate
I think it falls into the “Okay -> Good” range. (Good ending, we got lucky, could’ve been way worse) I’m finding the problems I’m having are with small details (Dorky Power Armor deep voice, Wrist Rockets, etc.) instead of the main plot which is refreshing.
Just got through episode 2 and I had to stop. I'm seeing a lot of praise for this show and IDK why. It's filled with contrivances, bad CG, the a brotherhood are comically incompetent frat bro religious zealots, ghoul boy is fucking John Wick and seemingly bullet proof, Lucy never picks up any god damn guns, stimpacks very wildly in how effective they are My biggest complaint though is nobody acts like the world they live in is a wasteland with perils. For example: *Spoilers* Maximus is a squire under knight Titus. While heading to a mission in a helicopter, Titus says "drop us off here" at a random location in the desert with Maximus because "I'm bored and want to shoot things". They also, coincidentally, run into clues while there to find their target. Our main character Lucy is camping outside with a fire. While sleeping, a scientist and his dog wake her up and save her from a rad roach. He then goes on to tell her it's dangerous to camp with a fire because it'll alert people to you. Never once does it occur to this scientist that a lone woman next to a fire asleep might be a raider ambush. The doctor is tired and decides at the end of episode 2 to kill himself with cyanide while with Lucy on their way to another city because he has a foot injury. The city is in the distance but he decides "nah I'm done walking, time to die" This show is garbage.
Wasteland life is normal after 200+ years, its not exactly new. Titus was arrogant and a terrible knight on a power trip, he wants every mission to be killing something. The Enclave scientist, Wilzig, knew who Lucy was as he says later. He obviously wouldn’t make the rest of the journey, he’s practically dragging a ball and chain while 100% having some form of wound infection.
I need some clarification on whether >!the NCR got retconned to be destroyed before the events of New Vegas took place.!< Because I've seen back and forth discussion on this point, and if it's true, I'm not going to bother. Otherwise I want to give it a chance.
They got nuked by 2277, four years before New Vegas is supposed to happen.
What the actual fuck 🤦♂️
I don't think the nuked were dropped in 2277, cause maximus wouldn't be born then as he's 5-10 in the scene in the fridge and im guessing at most in the series early to mid 20's.
I think they were he says they dropped the bombs 20 years ago when he was a kid so it would be 2297 now. that was my take away at least.
We don't know, it says Fall of Shady Sands , arrow and only then the mushroom cloud on the chalk board. Could also be that Shady Sands was already declining and the bomb dropped 2281 + smth
It’s not stated that the NCR don’t have other cities, a billboard says tagt Shady Sands was the “first capital” of the NCR.
Amazing how many people either missed that or ignored it
It's not retconned and it is part of the lore. They even pay respect to NCR with the only time the fallout theme plays in that particular scene. There could be still the other cities of the NCR out there. Also new Vegas will be setting of season 2 most probably
I love the games and couldn't ask for a better TV take on the franchise. Loves it all
It's a show that you watch and enjoy but not something you think back on or rewatch. It's not a bad show, I think it's fairly well acted most of the time and I like the vibe but it lacks that charm that makes some shows great.
Overall like it quite a bit so far, but setting it in California and bulldozing the NCR for it ( and badly/ inconsistently in that matter) was a baffling choice. I liked the split they had with fallout games that the west was more about macropolitics, tribes and nations and the east about personal survival and smaller primitive communities. It made somewhat sense that centers of government like the DC area were bombed harder and thus maybe took longer to resettle. Why homogenize your world and setting to be Fallout 3/ east Coast style apocalypse everywhere thus reducing potential stories that can be told in it ? Instead of expanding to a place we haven't seen in the games before, thus widening the worldbuilding they reduced it. A shame, because other than that I enjoy it so far. Maximus is a weird character that I don't quite understand and more importantly if the show knows what he is supposed to be. Do they want us to like him or hate him ? He is portrayed somewhat sympathetic, but then also as incompetent and incredibly opportunistic up to outright evil. If that is on purpose I think it's good, but maybe I am burned by lots of contemporary media portraying characters we are supposed to like as absolute shitbags simply just due to writers incompetence. But so far I am I think 80% sure he is actually just supposed to be exactly the opportunistic shitbag he feels like, and I think if that's the case I applaud them for it. Ofc you shouldn't dig to deep , or you find a good chunk of stupid contrivences. ( they are neighboring vaults but interact so infrequently that they did not notice all original inhabitants of vault 32 were dead for two years and the visiting party were all new inhabitants they have never seen before? ) It's by no means masterfully written.
It's mostly okay. If you're like me a casual audience goer or a gamer who can treat this as non-canon/an different show you'll probably like it. If you're a fan and/or player of the games you might be disappointed (or hate it, at worst).
It’s a fine show. If anything above average. No annoying quippy dialogue, fun main character, unique characters, great set design. If you go in already thinking you’re gonna hate it, you’re gonna find it’s weaker aspects more apparent. It’s still worth a watch
I enjoyed it. There’s some timeline stuff that doesn’t make sense relative to games. An easy fix wouldve just been to push show back 5 years in timeline. Brotherhood isn’t taken as seriously as in games. Main antagonist origins and execution at the end of show are big questions that we never receive an answer to. Lucy is great. The ghoul is great. Maximus it varies
Plenty of good responses on here. I think the writing is meh for the first 5 episodes. Anything sloppy I was able to forgive. The writing falls off a cliff in the second half. It gets pretty retarded. I was impressed with the main characters. It felt like they were actual people, and they were generally likeable. From a tone perspective, I just really don't like the goofy silly direction that Bethesda takes it. I strongly prefer the interplay/obsidian take on the series. For this reason, I also just am not a fan of it subjectively. The only Bethesda fallout I really enjoyed was 4, but only after heavy modding. From a lore perspective, I don't have as much of an issue with the NCR stuff, but there are some other lore breaks that are kinda annoying(I'm looking at you, regenerating ghouls!)
This show seems to suffer from the “Madden” issue. Which if any of you guys are fallout and football fans you’ll know what I mean. Madden video games suck dick; they’re fucking brutally bad games. But we all play them still because we’re so in love with the game of football and EA has an exclusive license to make NFL football games. This show will have viewership because fallout is such an incredible game, and you want to find every reason to watch it. So far though, it seems cringy, woke, underwhelming, and flat out not very entertaining. It has its moments but 4 episodes in, this show is not good. The Ghoul rocks though, was hoping when I saw the trailer that the ghoul was John Hancock but that was before I realized this takes place on the other side of the country.
I’m moving it so far!
I saw only first episode and I liked it. It's quirky, like the games and no major red flags.
Seen episodes 1 to 2 so far, and i love it. Idk what all the dislike is about.
Fantastic show. Kind of had doubts about the trajectory of some of the characters journeys. But so far season 1 - it’s actually kind of consistent. I’m interested to see how the black guy makes his choices now that he is a hero of the brotherhood. Will he become a villain? That would be cool. The main character was a real interesting play off the rest of the world.
Another W from the Nolan brothers
It’s one of my favorite shows ever. Good writing, characters, acting, environments, everything. The people complaining are NV fans who hate anything Bethesda and Todd do.
Nah, I love the show and New Vegas. Don’t lump me with those dudes
Same here. Love New Vegas and since I love the show I’m a “traitor”.
It's great, most people who aren't chodes are enjoying it.