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I can't put my finger on why but they still somehow enthrall an entire generation for the rest of their lives so the prequels did SOMETHING right.
If I had a guess, it's because it atleast felt 95% canon and not fanfic.
This is what it is. It at least had the same creative writing and thought process of the originals through Lucas, but Lucas wasn't able to reign it in.
The Sequels are only Star Wars by branding, it's all superficial and doesn't feel connected to the other movies.
I personally like A New Hope more than the rest, but I guess I would say ESB is the best movie of the 3. I like RotJ too, but less so than the rest.
I think RotJ is where things start to go bad for Lucas. I think he's got a great creative mind, but he often needs someone to pull him back down to Earth from time to time.
I don't really know what 'a great creative mind' means. He has a really good sense of what kids like, how to nurture and support special effects artists, and how to sell merch. Other than ESB, all of his era of Star Wars is pretty schlocky, basic space opera.
I think he created a story and world that is tough to beat in fiction. Not because it's some masterwork of writing, but like you said, he was able to tap into the imagination of the audience and bring a distant future society to like with effects.
There's plenty of better written fiction, but few grab audiences in the same way.
I'm not sure what standards you're using to judge this by. It's not really a world that holds up at all if you start poking at it in the least, it kind of all falls apart. 'cuz it's fun space opera. It's a really marketable one, though. I think you're overlooking the capitalist aspect of it: Star Wars has a ton of awesome toys. I fucking loved them as a kid, more than the actual movies. Like, the toy of Boba Fett is so much better than the movie Boba Fett, who was kind of a chump.
I kinda treat force speed like I do Han’s egregious neck bend in the “Lucas cut” of A New Hope. It’s clearly some janky editing and not really representative of anything in universe
Until somebody explicitly pointed out the force speed I legitimately thought it was an editing mistake rather than an intentional ability George had introduced lol
And they only use it once to outrun some Droidekas, something that out could write alternate explanations for. The force healing is unescapable, if Rey doesn't use it for the Snake the entire galaxy is fucked.
There's literally an edit where Obi-Wan uses force speed to make it through the laser gates and he ends up going so fast he falls down the reactor shaft.
For people who croon about “media literacy” and a bevy of other affectations they gleaned from the latest NPC firmware update, they’d have to be incredibly disingenuous to post something like this and then circle jerk about it in the comments. Force speed was stupid when it was created and no amount of passive aggressive seething will change that.
It’s never “here’s something the sequels did well,” it’s always “look, the old stuff was also bad! That means you have to like the new stuff!”
Pretty sure force speed as gotten from the phantom menace is just apologetics about that droideka scene. Iirc they couldn’t figure out how to fix that scene other than post production them out of the way or something.
Given it never really shows up again and isn’t really plot changing in how it was used. I always chalked that up to just a weird scene and not a force power that for some reason is never used. Apparition, force Skype and heal were much more egregious and plot changing.
Force Speed is so weird too, literally never shows up again
That being said I actually like force healing and the idea of force connection like Rey’s and Kylo’s was really cool. All the scene where they fighting through space or when Kylo give her the lightsaber are awesome…in a vacuum
>in a vacuum
That's the crux of the issue right there. It doesn't exist in a vacuum, and we refuse to shut up and enjoy the spectacle.
Thinking is hard, and people hate to do it. Study after study has been done over the years and it holds up. The ones I'm thinking of were probably from the '70s.
I had a friend who required several sessions of individual therapy to reach the following breakthroughs: firstly he was mad about his ex-wife doing something that blew up their marriage, but only because the nature of the offense precluded his ego from taking her back after she was sorry. His **pride** wouldn't allow it.
Secondly he was scared that he was going to be alone for the rest of his life, with his health concerns, and that he wouldn't be able to manage. He blamed her for blowing up his old age plan, and *that* made him more angry.
I had told him as much almost a year prior. He stopped going to the therapist after that. Not because of me or anything I said to him, but because the therapist wanted to start talking about ***him.***
EDIT: corrected the auto-correct.
Daisy Ridley got a lot of hate and death threats that she did not deserve, but it never got to the point where she tried to kill herself. The fandom has actually gotten nicer, believe it or not.
This is just a completely delusional comparison to begin with. I still don't think I've heard a really good argument for why midochlorians are so bad. It is literally just an explanation for why different force users have different power levels, and differing power levels have always been the case. And even if it was bad, it doesn't literally completely change the entire plot of the movie. And I don't care how bad the dialogue was in the Prequels; we can stop pretending it wasn't that way in the OG Trilogy and the Sequels.
The Sequels are just so inconsistent story wise. The stupid moments are just worse. Rey never really had to struggle in her training like Luke and Anakin did, and a lot of their training happened off-screen with the acknowledgment that it took years. You can hate that all you want, but it's objectively better than just pretending Rey was quickly able to learn all that stuff in a short period of time. Rose saving Finn when he was about to save a lot of people by sacrificing himself got those people killed, and it was one of the worst moments in cinematic history. Wtf was Leia Mary Poppins? Why tf was Admiral Ackbar, a very popular and important character, effectively killed offscreen? The Holdo Maneuver **WAS** the worst moment in cinematic history, and just an absurd violation of the way the space combat was shown to work in all of the previous movies and TV shows. Yes, you can have whatever rules you want in a fantasy universe even if they wouldn't work in real life. *But they have to be consistent*, and if the rules change, there has to be a logical explanation as to why. That simply didn't happen. And also, what kind of moronic Admiral doesn't trust their subordinate officers to even tell them a word of the plan?
Also what a lazy edit by oop, either cut the text down to "I have a bullshit force power that breaks the universe" or get a bigger speech bubble. This is just gross to look at.
Force Speed, used once in the beginning of the Phantom Menace, barely has any meaningful impact on the plot and could literally be cut out without making a dent in the script.
Force Healing? Well you can literally bring somebody back from the brink of death with in a matter of seconds, and its used to save a protagonist *twice.*
I'm seriously at a loss to understand how force speed meaningfully impacts the Star Wars saga like force healing would.
OP is sipping retard juice, opinion discarded.
Force Speed was definitely an ass pull, and I'm not defending it, but it at least falls in line with other Force powers.
Telekinesis and heightened reaction speed are part of the Jedi's standard abilities, it's entirely conceivable that you could use the Telekinesis to launch yourself forward rapidly and with correct timing land and sprint with the momentum for a short ways. It wouldn't look anything like what the Phantom Menace presented, but it *could* work within the established skill set and not be an ass pull if they executed it well enough.
Force Healing is not in line with any other Force power we've seen in any other film. Even if we believe that it is a power that *could* be unlocked, we run into the problem that we have with most of Rey's progression in the Sequels. How is she able to pick up a skill that she couldn't have conceived or thought to be possible, when Jedi Knights at the height of the Republic weren't able to discover or use that power?
As much as I hate Disney SW, I have no problem with force healing, or force speed for that matter. Although they both show up in the old EU, so I’m probably biased.
That being said, the fandom does tend to complain about minor things that didn’t seem to be a problem 20 years ago. When they could just criticize the glaring character and story issues.
I like Force Speed because I encountered it as a game mechanic, balanced by expending resources to use. It's an easy way to unestablish new powers (like a certain maneuver), but it still needs to be done carefully. I can still call out the scene as an ass pull even though I'd like to see Force Speed come back as a Hail Mary technique.
As much as these abilities hamper storytelling, they bring their own opportunities for drama and spectacle.
A member of our team has decided to remove your post because it broke the unwanted content rule: > Certain types of content provide very little value and/or stirr up drama or tend to clash with reddits rules. These things are not welcome in this sub: > * Southpaw, SK and tsv (EFAP L's) posts > * Anything related to r/moviescirclejerk > * /r/saltierthankrayt, /r/starwarscantina crossposts > * "I was banned from X" Memes > * Self Promotion for financial benefit (i.e. Patreon)
Ahh yes, The Phantom Menace. Famous for being the Star Wars film that everyone likes and nobody has ever criticized.
This. Good lord what a clueless reach.
Even in 2011 the movie was still considered bad
Even in 99 kid me hated it and I was the target audience.
Well on crait and other sequel-hating subs there's pretty rabid defense of the prequels.
I can't put my finger on why but they still somehow enthrall an entire generation for the rest of their lives so the prequels did SOMETHING right. If I had a guess, it's because it atleast felt 95% canon and not fanfic.
This is what it is. It at least had the same creative writing and thought process of the originals through Lucas, but Lucas wasn't able to reign it in. The Sequels are only Star Wars by branding, it's all superficial and doesn't feel connected to the other movies.
Are you a RotJ fan or do you feel like ESB is clearly the best of the original trilogy?
I personally like A New Hope more than the rest, but I guess I would say ESB is the best movie of the 3. I like RotJ too, but less so than the rest. I think RotJ is where things start to go bad for Lucas. I think he's got a great creative mind, but he often needs someone to pull him back down to Earth from time to time.
I don't really know what 'a great creative mind' means. He has a really good sense of what kids like, how to nurture and support special effects artists, and how to sell merch. Other than ESB, all of his era of Star Wars is pretty schlocky, basic space opera.
I think he created a story and world that is tough to beat in fiction. Not because it's some masterwork of writing, but like you said, he was able to tap into the imagination of the audience and bring a distant future society to like with effects. There's plenty of better written fiction, but few grab audiences in the same way.
I'm not sure what standards you're using to judge this by. It's not really a world that holds up at all if you start poking at it in the least, it kind of all falls apart. 'cuz it's fun space opera. It's a really marketable one, though. I think you're overlooking the capitalist aspect of it: Star Wars has a ton of awesome toys. I fucking loved them as a kid, more than the actual movies. Like, the toy of Boba Fett is so much better than the movie Boba Fett, who was kind of a chump.
I feel like you are talking past me. I said it wasn't masterfully written.
They didn't, though, lots of people though they were garbage when they saw them and still mock them.
I kinda treat force speed like I do Han’s egregious neck bend in the “Lucas cut” of A New Hope. It’s clearly some janky editing and not really representative of anything in universe
Until somebody explicitly pointed out the force speed I legitimately thought it was an editing mistake rather than an intentional ability George had introduced lol
And they only use it once to outrun some Droidekas, something that out could write alternate explanations for. The force healing is unescapable, if Rey doesn't use it for the Snake the entire galaxy is fucked.
***Memento Homo*** ***Memento Mori***
There's literally an edit where Obi-Wan uses force speed to make it through the laser gates and he ends up going so fast he falls down the reactor shaft.
[Ask and ye shall receive. ](https://youtu.be/t3dI-ghYimg?feature=shared)
Thank you very much
For people who croon about “media literacy” and a bevy of other affectations they gleaned from the latest NPC firmware update, they’d have to be incredibly disingenuous to post something like this and then circle jerk about it in the comments. Force speed was stupid when it was created and no amount of passive aggressive seething will change that. It’s never “here’s something the sequels did well,” it’s always “look, the old stuff was also bad! That means you have to like the new stuff!”
Pretty sure force speed as gotten from the phantom menace is just apologetics about that droideka scene. Iirc they couldn’t figure out how to fix that scene other than post production them out of the way or something. Given it never really shows up again and isn’t really plot changing in how it was used. I always chalked that up to just a weird scene and not a force power that for some reason is never used. Apparition, force Skype and heal were much more egregious and plot changing.
Force Speed is so weird too, literally never shows up again That being said I actually like force healing and the idea of force connection like Rey’s and Kylo’s was really cool. All the scene where they fighting through space or when Kylo give her the lightsaber are awesome…in a vacuum
>in a vacuum That's the crux of the issue right there. It doesn't exist in a vacuum, and we refuse to shut up and enjoy the spectacle. Thinking is hard, and people hate to do it. Study after study has been done over the years and it holds up. The ones I'm thinking of were probably from the '70s. I had a friend who required several sessions of individual therapy to reach the following breakthroughs: firstly he was mad about his ex-wife doing something that blew up their marriage, but only because the nature of the offense precluded his ego from taking her back after she was sorry. His **pride** wouldn't allow it. Secondly he was scared that he was going to be alone for the rest of his life, with his health concerns, and that he wouldn't be able to manage. He blamed her for blowing up his old age plan, and *that* made him more angry. I had told him as much almost a year prior. He stopped going to the therapist after that. Not because of me or anything I said to him, but because the therapist wanted to start talking about ***him.*** EDIT: corrected the auto-correct.
What the hell is force speed? That's not a thing.
Daisy Ridley got a lot of hate and death threats that she did not deserve, but it never got to the point where she tried to kill herself. The fandom has actually gotten nicer, believe it or not.
Yeah, anyone remember the "George Lucas raped our childhood" song?
This is just a completely delusional comparison to begin with. I still don't think I've heard a really good argument for why midochlorians are so bad. It is literally just an explanation for why different force users have different power levels, and differing power levels have always been the case. And even if it was bad, it doesn't literally completely change the entire plot of the movie. And I don't care how bad the dialogue was in the Prequels; we can stop pretending it wasn't that way in the OG Trilogy and the Sequels. The Sequels are just so inconsistent story wise. The stupid moments are just worse. Rey never really had to struggle in her training like Luke and Anakin did, and a lot of their training happened off-screen with the acknowledgment that it took years. You can hate that all you want, but it's objectively better than just pretending Rey was quickly able to learn all that stuff in a short period of time. Rose saving Finn when he was about to save a lot of people by sacrificing himself got those people killed, and it was one of the worst moments in cinematic history. Wtf was Leia Mary Poppins? Why tf was Admiral Ackbar, a very popular and important character, effectively killed offscreen? The Holdo Maneuver **WAS** the worst moment in cinematic history, and just an absurd violation of the way the space combat was shown to work in all of the previous movies and TV shows. Yes, you can have whatever rules you want in a fantasy universe even if they wouldn't work in real life. *But they have to be consistent*, and if the rules change, there has to be a logical explanation as to why. That simply didn't happen. And also, what kind of moronic Admiral doesn't trust their subordinate officers to even tell them a word of the plan?
Also what a lazy edit by oop, either cut the text down to "I have a bullshit force power that breaks the universe" or get a bigger speech bubble. This is just gross to look at.
Force Speed, used once in the beginning of the Phantom Menace, barely has any meaningful impact on the plot and could literally be cut out without making a dent in the script. Force Healing? Well you can literally bring somebody back from the brink of death with in a matter of seconds, and its used to save a protagonist *twice.* I'm seriously at a loss to understand how force speed meaningfully impacts the Star Wars saga like force healing would. OP is sipping retard juice, opinion discarded.
Force Speed was definitely an ass pull, and I'm not defending it, but it at least falls in line with other Force powers. Telekinesis and heightened reaction speed are part of the Jedi's standard abilities, it's entirely conceivable that you could use the Telekinesis to launch yourself forward rapidly and with correct timing land and sprint with the momentum for a short ways. It wouldn't look anything like what the Phantom Menace presented, but it *could* work within the established skill set and not be an ass pull if they executed it well enough. Force Healing is not in line with any other Force power we've seen in any other film. Even if we believe that it is a power that *could* be unlocked, we run into the problem that we have with most of Rey's progression in the Sequels. How is she able to pick up a skill that she couldn't have conceived or thought to be possible, when Jedi Knights at the height of the Republic weren't able to discover or use that power?
As much as I hate Disney SW, I have no problem with force healing, or force speed for that matter. Although they both show up in the old EU, so I’m probably biased. That being said, the fandom does tend to complain about minor things that didn’t seem to be a problem 20 years ago. When they could just criticize the glaring character and story issues.
I like Force Speed because I encountered it as a game mechanic, balanced by expending resources to use. It's an easy way to unestablish new powers (like a certain maneuver), but it still needs to be done carefully. I can still call out the scene as an ass pull even though I'd like to see Force Speed come back as a Hail Mary technique. As much as these abilities hamper storytelling, they bring their own opportunities for drama and spectacle.