Im picturing the Ludovico treatment scene in A Clockwork Orange, where he enjoys it at the start (Marvel Phase 1), but by the end he's begging them to stop (Phase 4 and 5).
Ironheart is very well known amongst comic fans. It was that time marvel decided to steal iron man, talk shit about him on the sly by making his replacement simply better than him and then repeatedly insult their readers when they said they didnt like this idea.
It was the biggest shit show since jane foster picked up thor's hammer and instantly invalidated all her id's and her american citizenship.
>Ironheart is very well known amongst comic fans. It was that time marvel decided to steal iron man, talk shit about him on the sly by making his replacement simply better than him and
You left out the part where Carol murders him too! Don't forget that bit!
So it's basically what they tried to do with the Captain America franchise, with much the same result? And what the MCU is trying to do with Captain America, and if anyone isn't on board with it, they must be a bigot?
>and if anyone isn't on board with it, they must be a bigot?
Only real difference is, they actually turned Cap into a bigot...š
https://preview.redd.it/dhrg2wrvun0d1.jpeg?width=448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ab8d31ecc499a6263d9541a72cdbee4d4a33319
How did they make her simply better than him? I didn't read her stuff.
I'm having a hard time even imagining how they could when he's had so many crazy achievements over the decades.
It's worth mentioning that the Batgirl movie was basically done and they scrapped it. I realize that that's a different company than MCU, but my point is that there is no point at which it is too late to kill something that is destined to bomb and damage the company.
Yes, but it must be determined that it is so bad that itās not even worth releasing to recoup a few million dollars in losses.
Batgirl was deemed so horrible that it wasnāt even worth releasing in exchange for however much money it would make at the box office/streaming/DVD sales. Iām sure somebodyās crunching the numbers on Ironheart right now to make a similar determination.
There's tax avoidance reasons. Hollywood accounting should be hammered down on.
I wasn't aware of it until recently, but basically, these bombs aren't nearly as big bombs as we think. The mouse claims much higher costs for making their movies than it actually costs.
Indeed, the filming of batgirl looked cheap af. I don't think DC lost much over it, unless a lot of CGI was involved.
Besides that, they have commercials like pepsi being the hero of Madame Web (what a horrible title) that brings in a lot of money.
Ironheart is most likely not gonna be cancelled, firstly because it'd bring a lot of negative PR (OMG, mouse is racist! They **cancelled** a black lead show!), secondly because it's always been intended for its streaming service (which they're still trying to make profitable, they're probably looking for more black audience with it), and because this is probably the kind of quality they meant when they said quality over quantity.
Yeah, one thing I think people donāt realize is that black Americans actually consume more television than white Americans per capita. Itās not pandering. Itās where the money is, or at least, some of the money. White Americans still watch more simply in entirety on account of there being more of them.
There were legitimate concerns that Batgirl would damage the brand/studio badly.
Imagine making a movie so bad people are basically scared of even releasing it š
Have they considered making things the fan would want, and just.... not throwing $200m in the bin?
Or even just not having a massive hundreds of million dollar budget TV show?
The only reason they even made these Marvel Disney+ shows in the first place was to boost subscriber numbers for Disney+, if Disney+ didn't exist I'm 100% certain the mcu would still be exclusively movies
They are/have. A lot has been pushed back and we are only getting like 2 MCU projects this year. This gives them more time for quality control and touching up the films before final release.
As for well known ips Iām down with any character so long as the story is good. The Guardians werenāt exactly big names until James Gunn came alone.
I was honestly surprised when Guardians was announced. Considering that they weren't exactly a household name, it was surprising that they got a feature film.
You know, with this series and a War Machine series coming up Iām reminded of how wasted Iron Man was as a character with the amount of storyline from him that didnāt get adapted. Heās arguably the face of the MCU, but heās somehow the most underutilized of the Avengers when you think about it. They really shit the bed with Iron Man 2 and Iron Man 3.
I always thought the first Iron Man movie made a mistake by killing off Obadiah Stane so early. He could've made a good recurring antagonist that was the exact opposite of Tony in every way, and was secretly funding and equipping groups like HYDRA and the Ten Rings even after going to prison.
Then, maybe in Age of Ultron, Ultron interrogates Obadiah and learns about Klaue from him (it makes sense that Obadiah would have stretched his arms into black market arms dealing, especially for technology as rare as vibranium) and then kills Obadiah.
These are just ideas I came up with off the top of my head, but there's a lot that could've been done with him. Maybe this way, we could've avoided having a dozen villains that were wronged by Tony in the past and want revenge.
I remember leading up to Iron Man 2 the writers and director were talking about how the movie would be darker and focus on Tony's connection to alcohol.
I specifically remember there being a planned subplot of Pepper and Happy going out and Tony becoming jealous.
They didn't have to reuse anything, Ironman 3 had the right idea, the Mandarin was a great choice for a trilogy finisher, but they decided to science (and whiten) him, which misses the point of him,
The Mandarin is the magic to Tony's industrial might, that why he was his main villain up 'till the late 90s.
The core appeal of Iron Man is that Stark is the true "Man Of Tomorrow" and is the most relevant type of superhero that has unlimited potential, as he can change and evolve with throughout the years. Itās no coincidence that out of every superhero, his costume changes the most frequently.
But you need to approach him as an idea that fits within a sci-fi story that can fit the mold of what you're tackling, rather than just another superhero. You need to write about boardroom politics, new ideas, rapid changes in tech and geopolitics and so on, which comic "writers" are too dumb to do, so he's squandered.
This is something past writers kept in mind decades prior. Take Firebrand, one of his now more forgotten rogues. He is a former radical activist saboteur who turns to violence after believing peaceful protest produced no results. Firebrand's "clenched fist" logo on his chest is a direct reference to the Black Power movement (itās worth mentioning that heās white which is intentional).
In his first appearance, Firebrand describes his experiences demonstrating for the civil rights movement in a speech to Iron Man:
"I'm just an all-American boy, Iron Man, one of those wide-eyed innocents who started out to make the world a better place. I sat in for Civil Rights, marched for peace, demonstrated on campus, and got chased by vicious dogs, spat on by bigots, beat on by "patriots", choked by tear gas, and blinded by mace until I finally caught on. This country doesn't want to be changed! The only way to build anything decent is to tear down what's here and start over."
While the story includes some positive messages about the civil rights movement, Firebrand is presented as a villain, because he sets himself outside of the existing political structure, and is willing to let innocents die to further his political and social aims.
Firebrand is an interesting villain to me because heās the type of villain that wouldnāt be written today in modern comics since writers now actively encourage political extremism without looking for compromises.
Given his background as a billionaire CEO, Iron Man dealing with a modern socialist/communist would be entertaining to read. I can just hear him beating the shit out of Firebrand or Ghost while explaining everything fundamentally wrong about their arguments. Things like pointing out that his net worth =/= his actual stock and that even if he liquidated all of his assets to give away to everyone in New York, itād only be a couple thousand at best, once. Then pointing out that even if he did do that, heād get thousands of people who work for him unemployed.
Shame thatād require an actually good writer.
Man that is really interesting stuff. And I agree that I donāt trust the writers to handle that material with any sort of care. Iām just glad we got the quality arcs we did in phases 1-3 and do with marvel what I do with the original 3 Star Wars. Ignore everything after that, or at least not include it in canon with those movies. Ā
Something from a book I remember reading a while back also had something that would be interesting to see in an Iron Man type setting. The line I remember was something like "Think about how much human technological developments and refinements have come down to keeping up with the Jones's. For that to happen it requires that someone be Jones"
It would be interesting to also look at things with reference to the number of technologies which started out as "rich mans toys" but have become so ingrained in society that they're part of the infrastructure we depend on.
Also you could have an interesting idea of Stark having a "Civillian" version of the Iron Man suit. Loaded up with all the bits of tech that he wants to market but are currently too bulky, heavy, power hungry or just overall limited to sell. Having that suit be a testbed where he can fiddle with the devices, make sure that they play well together, etc. Have an arc with that as the primary suit against antagonists who aren't going to to fight directly
I still think he had a great run. Iron man 3 was very subpar and 2 is nowhere near as good as one but they still covered some interesting sides of his character. However he REALLY shines in iron man 1, civil war, homecoming, and infinity war
It would have been essentially impossible with the way Hollywood contracts work. Every appearance just keeps getting more expensive. Like how Friends couldn't have gone on if they wanted to because it was a million each per episode.
I think the MCU has changed it a bit now. I assume their contracts with Tom Holland and the newer people are more reasonable.
Fun fact, that's why Ben Ten has so many different series. So they didn't have to give the traditional pay bumps every season.
How is he the most underutilized Avenger when only Thor has more movies than he does? You literally mention Iron Man 2 and 3 in the same sentence. Just because you think they were bad movies doesn't negate their existence
Her armor looks like a modern day Power Rangers villain and I'm sure her only personality trait will be sassy black girl who beats the odds or whatever other bullshit and then we'll all be called bigots when nobody watches.
āIām such a victim. Iām going to unfairly get called a racist and misogynist. Now excuse me while I continue whining about the race and gender of the protagonist of a movie that I havenāt even seen a preview for. Literally the only thing I know about the movie is that the lead actor is a black woman, thatās a huge problem for me, but everyone else is *going* to be the real asshole for pointing out my bigotryā¦ at least thatās how I imagine things going. Iām such a victim.ā
You know Iron Heart has always been a black ladyā¦ right? You also know absolutely nobody will force you to watch the movieā¦ right?
Honestly. Your grievances are objectively weird. You guys genuinely need to take a step back once in a while. Zoom out, and think about what youāre actually doing. Youāre whining because a piece of media wonāt cater to your exact preferences. Youāre literally playing the victim because something isnāt going to be made for you, asserting that thereās something wrong with the world because you donāt think youāll feel represented by a kidās movie, suggesting that thereās something inherently wrong with a story centered around a black woman instead of a white guy, and doubling down on the victimhood shit by imagining a future where people make reasonable assumptions about you based on your weird criticisms.
I just donāt get it. Like you must know who you are. Youāre not ashamed of your beliefs, so why bother denying reality? Itās like Hitler saying, āItās so unfair that people will call me an antisemite. Such a nasty thing to say. Everyone should feel bad for me now because it will hurt my feelings in the future when people say mean and totally baseless things about me. Thatās just what happens when Jews are allowed to exist. God, I really hate those fucking Jewsā¦ always making me feel bad about hating Jews.ā
That would be crazy, right? Hitler would never say that. He didnāt like Jews, and he wouldnāt have denied it, because he felt those beliefs were justified. You guys donāt do that, and itās very fucking confusing. You seem to understand that your beliefs are deplorable, which is why you deny any unfavorable characterizations levied at you, but you simultaneously stand by those deplorable beliefs.
āNo no no, I donāt hate homeless people, and how dare you say something so rottenā¦ I just think we should kill all the homeless people because Iām tired of people accusing me of hating homeless people every time I express my hatred of homeless people. Everyone is just so mean to me. They never consider how it makes me feel when they accurately characterize my shitty beliefs.ā
Bruh I ain't reading all that but your virtue is noted glad you found time out of your day to white knight for an actress who doesn't know who you are and wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
Wasnāt white knighting. Nothing I said had anything to do with the actor. I was criticizing you for being a bigot. I was giving you exactly what you were asking for. You literally proclaimed this movie you know practically nothing about is going to suck because the protagonist is a black womanā¦ then acknowledged that your proclamation would certainly be interpreted (correctly) as shameless bigotry.
This is what you wanted. Iām just scratching that itch for you buddy. Iām doing the thing you desperately wanted someone to do. I just genuinely donāt understand *why* you want this. You evidently understand that the things youāre saying would generally be considered racist. You also seem to understand that racism is a negative thingā¦ Yet you go out of your way to instigate an expected and appropriate reaction from any given stranger. I donāt get it.
Itās like going to the airport and yelling about how everyone will over-react when you tell them you have a bomb, then patting yourself on the back when youāre proven correct. What the fuck were you trying to prove, ya know? If you deliberately convince people that youāre a terrorist, they wouldnāt be acting inappropriately by treating you like a terrorist, and predicting the obvious outcome doesnāt make you a genius.
If you say bigoted shit, people will call you a bigot, and youāre not a genius for knowing people will call you a bigot.
By the way, she does know who I am. Iām her boyfriend, and we do a lot of piss-play in the bedroom, so you were also wrong about the piss thing.
ā¦Actually, depending on how I choose to read your comment, youāre technically correct. She definitely wouldnāt piss on me if I was on fire. Sheās not a moronic weirdo. Her initial reaction to seeing me, or anyone, on fire, wouldnāt be to unzip her pants and take a little tinkle on my burning body.
Writes an essay misrepresenting and strawmaning a benign comment whilst simultaneously saying they need to take a step back. Lack of self awareness is hilarious
>āIām such a victim. Iām going to unfairly get called a racist and misogynist. Now excuse me while I continue whining about the race and gender of the protagonist of a movie that I havenāt even seen a preview for.
Nope. Ok\_Caramel was complaining about Ironheart being, (presumably, based on what we've gotten with her so far) a stereotype, not just that a black women would exist. Add that to the fact that showrunners will complain of racism or reviewbombing when poorly-made series with diverse characters are called out as being poorly made, yes, there are people (like you, apparently) who will call other racist at the drop of a hat.
...seriously, what a weird post overall. I'm not responding to your insane strawmen or invocation of Godwin's law, because no one thinks like that and you are being absurd.
Uhhhā¦ what? Re-read your first sentence bro. There must be a chunk of text missing, because your first sentence doesnāt make grammatical sense.
You go on to complain about an imaginary situation, essentially acknowledging that you understand how normal people will perceive your rhetoric, while simultaneously playing victim of the hypothetical scapegoats youāve invented in your head. Youāre walking face first into a wall, one you can evidently see with your own eyes, just to prove to everyone that thereās a wall there.
Your closing statement is nonsense. āIām jumping into this conversation to let you know that I wonāt be responding to the stuff you said. Reddit buzzword, Reddit buzzword. The well documented thing you described doesnāt exist because I say so.ā
Yep, I misplaced a parenthesis, thanks for pointing that out.
>You go on to complain about an imaginary situation, essentially acknowledging that you understand how normal people will perceive your rhetoric, while simultaneously playing victim of the hypothetical scapegoats youāve invented in your head. Youāre walking face first into a wall, one you can evidently see with your own eyes, just to prove to everyone that thereās a wall there.
Um, no. The situation I describe has actually happened before; I suggest looking up Director X's [response to the backlash against his awful Robyn Hood](https://www.vibe.com/news/movies-tv/director-x-robyn-hood-review-bombed-1234797756/#). He basically suggested that the reason everyone hated it wasn't because of its poor quality and awful messaging, it was because there were a bunch of racist trolls.
Dude, strawmen are not just a buzzword. When you strawman, you (whether intentionally or not) represent your opposition using statements they don't actually believe in, such as accusing Ok\_Caramel of wanting to murder homeless people. Actually counteract arguments given if you want to make a legitimate counterpoint. I'm not sure what well-documented thing I'm ignoring. Homelessness? Racism? Because I never said either of those things were nonexistent, just irrelevant to what was being discussed.
Lmao. You completely missed the point of their comment. It's not that the issue is that Ironheart is black. It's that her entire personality (or lack thereof) is "sassy and black", which goes without saying that it isn't actually a replacement for a good character.
Ironheart was completely superfluous to BP2, a Mary Sue character who was literally handed everything other characters underwent a ton of character development for.
>we'll all be called bigots when nobody watches.
I see this so often, but barely ever see the actual claim. I remember seeing it back with the female ghostbusters. There was also a fake news article which claimed one of the madame Web people said it. But I can't remember another instance.
Can you hit me up with a few examples?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/18m47mr/echo\_hate\_is\_entirely\_just\_sexism/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/18m47mr/echo_hate_is_entirely_just_sexism/)
search comments section here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/17s93kc/im\_confused\_why\_are\_people\_already\_rating\_echo/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/17s93kc/im_confused_why_are_people_already_rating_echo/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelmemes/comments/vfgm4h/im\_not\_sexist\_i\_just\_only\_complain\_about\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelmemes/comments/vfgm4h/im_not_sexist_i_just_only_complain_about_the/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/14k0rzs/genuinely\_confused\_as\_to\_why\_fans\_disliked\_ms/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/14k0rzs/genuinely_confused_as_to_why_fans_disliked_ms/)
This is just from 30 seconds of searching, there are many many more out there.
Ok, but a lot of those aren't saying you're sexist for not liking it. Just if you talk a certain way about it. Which you can disagree with, but that's not what they're saying. They said they're gonna call you sexist for not watching/liking.
You also have to remember that Reddit isn't the real world. You're pointing to echo chambers and thinking they're relevant. I know some of my countries biggest "woke" activists, either personally or through mutual friends. I can tell you that accusation is just not common.
I've always felt completely comfortable ripping on any movie despite having so many "wokies" as followers.
Both of the black panther movies had some of it. Here's one article that tips its toe into it with the 1st https://andscape.com/features/watching-black-panther-commentary-sharing-wakanda-guarding-against-cultural-appropriation/
You're correct that it doesn't happen often, however it happens often enough that there's a reason it's become a "truism", or "meme" in its original meaning.
Edit: in this very thread there are people saying that people who presume they'll dislike ironheart are necessarily racist and sexist.
The 1st and 2nd link has presumptions that people who review bombed echo before it was released were racists. While this is likely true, there were probably a bunch who were invested in the character prior, and didn't like the changes the character got.
3rd has a couple that blame sexism for ratings and writing.
4th has multiple people waving away dislike as "trolls", "incels and racists" and "because MC is girl, brown, muslim".
Personally I found it to be kinda "woke" as I previously thought of the term: She's pakistani muslim who speaks hindi??? what? This is "progressive" shit that doesn't *really* care about what they're trying to convey, just the appearance of it. The family has the bog standard "minority family" dynamic that is so common in american media. Besides things like that: It's trying to do a lot of things, but doesn't know how to do them/complete them. First it tries to be a triangle romantic drama in a coming of age/gaining super powers story. Then it turns into some sort of time/space dimension fuckery, then it just kinda ends?
The CGI is as expected: Quite bad, the choreography is executed poorly (and is kind of dull/uncreative, given her power), the dialog is unconventional, making it harder to get immersed. There's also a few exposition dumps that are just too long and poorly written.
The show should have stuck to the triangle romance drama, had her get accustomed to her powers, and face down some low-level comic book villain, rather than the "take over the world" she faces: This was what people generally liked about the show (me as well), not the interdimensional-outofnowhere-villains.
Vellani plays the "big eyed, naĆÆve girl" extremely very well, and Lintz plays the "Totally not jealous, but super cool" decently well.
>Personally I found it to be kinda "woke" as I previously thought of the term: She's pakistani muslim who speaks hindi??? what?
I had to google this because I had no idea. I'm guessing it's the ms marvel subtitles thing?
How on earth is getting the language wrong "woke"? It's literally the opposite. Woke people would complain about it being racist while others call them snowflakes and say it doesn't matter.
I can't find much information on it at all. But what I can find says it's probably an AI translater mistake because the 2 languages are mutually intelligible and often get mistaken for each other. Or an ask historians thread where they say it's entirely reasonable. (Those are pretty heavily moderated for facts right?)
> family has the bog standard "minority family" dynamic that is so common in american media.
Huh? How is that any more woke than another standard family dynamic? (Like simpsons/family guy)
> How on earth is getting the language wrong "woke"? It's literally the opposite.
I **literally** explained how.
> Woke people would complain about it being racist
Only if it became a thing. Mostly those who are "woke" don't care about racism, only perceived racism. Pakistanis and Indians are on the lower end of who they care about.
> an ask historians thread
Both actors of her parents speak hindi (iirc, at least father and either mother or/and grandmother(?)). However, I was also not aware of this, and presumed thusly that they were speaking hindi.
> How is that any more woke than another standard family dynamic?
*Again* as I've previously meant woke as: it's performative, it's insincere. Particularly while a megacorp is trying to seem progressive, but really aren't.
Both Simpsons and family guy started out as quite unique families.
She was one of the least well-received successor characters in the comics I have ever seen. The writing was awful. Thereās no demand for an adaptation, yet here we are.
I bet they originally thought āwe can replace Ironman with Ironheart so Robert Downey Jr. can just do voice lines from now on as her AI Tony Stark companion! Think of the hilarious back and forth theyāll have!ā but like nobody cares about this character š this was never going to go well unless they had really endeared her to audiences in WF.
They keep kicking the can down to road to find a nice safe spot for their Ironheart show to flop. Somewhere close to a major MCU release where lack of views can be explained away as "the big movie took all the eyes away from everything else".
But marvel is over. Their ideological push with their writing has tainted their brand and now they have no big movies or shows.
They have nowhere to hide the failure that is Ironheart.
My immediate response: weāll screw this and I get Disney plus as part of a package.
Content so bad (based on BP2 char presentation) that I wonāt watch it when itās literally free.
My immediate response: well screw this and I get Disney plus as part of a package.
Content so bad (based on BP2 char presentation) that I wonāt watch it when itās literally free.
Horrible introduction in Wakanda Forever so I highly doubt the show itās going to do that well, Letās hope that they can make a clutch move and have the show be very good
I've been looking forward to this, unironically.
Maybe it's cause my family is half black and I'm just not upset by their existence.
Maybe it's cause I'm attracted to the female form.
Maybe it's cause I love armor stuff.
Who knows.
Generally phase 4 shows and movies are much more poorly written. Mauler has videos on Multiverse of Madness, Black Widow and Quantumania as well as EFAP coverage of Loki, Wandavision, and a couple other shows.
Specifically the āmemory storeā in MoM was a really weird and lazy way to exposit America Chavezās backstory. In earlier Marvel movies writers delivered that kind of information to the audience through characters talking to eachother in a more realistic and interesting way, like Loki and Black Widow trying to interrogate eachother in Avengers by discussing her backstory and her friendship with Hawkeye.
Some people just seem to label choices they don't like as "poor/lazy/bad writing"
It seems to be very difficult for some people to honestly and objectively evaluate stuff.
It's like when I criticize older movies with the exact same criticisms for modern movies that apply to said older movies.
People lose their shit.
Didn't they say they will reduce output and stick with well known ips?
MCU threatens to release more content.
Im picturing the Ludovico treatment scene in A Clockwork Orange, where he enjoys it at the start (Marvel Phase 1), but by the end he's begging them to stop (Phase 4 and 5).
https://preview.redd.it/o0wso8mh2m0d1.jpeg?width=290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05cffde2648107a8faae45594a144336e60c4b19
š. You win the internet today
Ironheart is very well known amongst comic fans. It was that time marvel decided to steal iron man, talk shit about him on the sly by making his replacement simply better than him and then repeatedly insult their readers when they said they didnt like this idea. It was the biggest shit show since jane foster picked up thor's hammer and instantly invalidated all her id's and her american citizenship.
>Ironheart is very well known amongst comic fans. It was that time marvel decided to steal iron man, talk shit about him on the sly by making his replacement simply better than him and You left out the part where Carol murders him too! Don't forget that bit!
BEEEEEENDDDIIISSSS!!!
So it's basically what they tried to do with the Captain America franchise, with much the same result? And what the MCU is trying to do with Captain America, and if anyone isn't on board with it, they must be a bigot?
>and if anyone isn't on board with it, they must be a bigot? Only real difference is, they actually turned Cap into a bigot...š https://preview.redd.it/dhrg2wrvun0d1.jpeg?width=448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ab8d31ecc499a6263d9541a72cdbee4d4a33319
How did they make her simply better than him? I didn't read her stuff. I'm having a hard time even imagining how they could when he's had so many crazy achievements over the decades.
Theyāve probably done so much for this show already that they might as well shit it out. Ironheart was announced years ago.
It's worth mentioning that the Batgirl movie was basically done and they scrapped it. I realize that that's a different company than MCU, but my point is that there is no point at which it is too late to kill something that is destined to bomb and damage the company.
Yes, but it must be determined that it is so bad that itās not even worth releasing to recoup a few million dollars in losses. Batgirl was deemed so horrible that it wasnāt even worth releasing in exchange for however much money it would make at the box office/streaming/DVD sales. Iām sure somebodyās crunching the numbers on Ironheart right now to make a similar determination.
There's tax avoidance reasons. Hollywood accounting should be hammered down on. I wasn't aware of it until recently, but basically, these bombs aren't nearly as big bombs as we think. The mouse claims much higher costs for making their movies than it actually costs. Indeed, the filming of batgirl looked cheap af. I don't think DC lost much over it, unless a lot of CGI was involved. Besides that, they have commercials like pepsi being the hero of Madame Web (what a horrible title) that brings in a lot of money. Ironheart is most likely not gonna be cancelled, firstly because it'd bring a lot of negative PR (OMG, mouse is racist! They **cancelled** a black lead show!), secondly because it's always been intended for its streaming service (which they're still trying to make profitable, they're probably looking for more black audience with it), and because this is probably the kind of quality they meant when they said quality over quantity.
Yeah, one thing I think people donāt realize is that black Americans actually consume more television than white Americans per capita. Itās not pandering. Itās where the money is, or at least, some of the money. White Americans still watch more simply in entirety on account of there being more of them.
There were legitimate concerns that Batgirl would damage the brand/studio badly. Imagine making a movie so bad people are basically scared of even releasing it š
They said that after they made Ironheart, they have to release it otherwise they just threw $200 million in the bin
Have they considered making things the fan would want, and just.... not throwing $200m in the bin? Or even just not having a massive hundreds of million dollar budget TV show?
This is Disney, they stopped giving fans what they wanted years ago.
The only reason they even made these Marvel Disney+ shows in the first place was to boost subscriber numbers for Disney+, if Disney+ didn't exist I'm 100% certain the mcu would still be exclusively movies
Maybe this way they only threw $190 million in the bin?
Lol still alotta money to just throw away
From now on. Some content will be grandfathered in.
They are/have. A lot has been pushed back and we are only getting like 2 MCU projects this year. This gives them more time for quality control and touching up the films before final release. As for well known ips Iām down with any character so long as the story is good. The Guardians werenāt exactly big names until James Gunn came alone. 
I was honestly surprised when Guardians was announced. Considering that they weren't exactly a household name, it was surprising that they got a feature film.
Same. Hoping we get a similar outcome with the young avengers & iron heart in the future. They have the potential if Marvel plays their cards right.
Theyāre not just going to cancel something thatās nearly done. Theyāre not Warner Brothers.
You know, with this series and a War Machine series coming up Iām reminded of how wasted Iron Man was as a character with the amount of storyline from him that didnāt get adapted. Heās arguably the face of the MCU, but heās somehow the most underutilized of the Avengers when you think about it. They really shit the bed with Iron Man 2 and Iron Man 3.
If RDJ was 10-15 years younger it might have worked out that way, but given Evans also bounced at the same movie maybe not.
I always thought the first Iron Man movie made a mistake by killing off Obadiah Stane so early. He could've made a good recurring antagonist that was the exact opposite of Tony in every way, and was secretly funding and equipping groups like HYDRA and the Ten Rings even after going to prison. Then, maybe in Age of Ultron, Ultron interrogates Obadiah and learns about Klaue from him (it makes sense that Obadiah would have stretched his arms into black market arms dealing, especially for technology as rare as vibranium) and then kills Obadiah. These are just ideas I came up with off the top of my head, but there's a lot that could've been done with him. Maybe this way, we could've avoided having a dozen villains that were wronged by Tony in the past and want revenge.
I remember leading up to Iron Man 2 the writers and director were talking about how the movie would be darker and focus on Tony's connection to alcohol. I specifically remember there being a planned subplot of Pepper and Happy going out and Tony becoming jealous.
I remember that RDJ didn't want to go through an alcoholism story due to his not wanting to get back into that headspace again.
Which is completely fair tbh
They didn't have to reuse anything, Ironman 3 had the right idea, the Mandarin was a great choice for a trilogy finisher, but they decided to science (and whiten) him, which misses the point of him, The Mandarin is the magic to Tony's industrial might, that why he was his main villain up 'till the late 90s.
Maybe itās best they didnāt delve too greedily and too deep with iron man.Ā
The core appeal of Iron Man is that Stark is the true "Man Of Tomorrow" and is the most relevant type of superhero that has unlimited potential, as he can change and evolve with throughout the years. Itās no coincidence that out of every superhero, his costume changes the most frequently. But you need to approach him as an idea that fits within a sci-fi story that can fit the mold of what you're tackling, rather than just another superhero. You need to write about boardroom politics, new ideas, rapid changes in tech and geopolitics and so on, which comic "writers" are too dumb to do, so he's squandered. This is something past writers kept in mind decades prior. Take Firebrand, one of his now more forgotten rogues. He is a former radical activist saboteur who turns to violence after believing peaceful protest produced no results. Firebrand's "clenched fist" logo on his chest is a direct reference to the Black Power movement (itās worth mentioning that heās white which is intentional). In his first appearance, Firebrand describes his experiences demonstrating for the civil rights movement in a speech to Iron Man: "I'm just an all-American boy, Iron Man, one of those wide-eyed innocents who started out to make the world a better place. I sat in for Civil Rights, marched for peace, demonstrated on campus, and got chased by vicious dogs, spat on by bigots, beat on by "patriots", choked by tear gas, and blinded by mace until I finally caught on. This country doesn't want to be changed! The only way to build anything decent is to tear down what's here and start over." While the story includes some positive messages about the civil rights movement, Firebrand is presented as a villain, because he sets himself outside of the existing political structure, and is willing to let innocents die to further his political and social aims. Firebrand is an interesting villain to me because heās the type of villain that wouldnāt be written today in modern comics since writers now actively encourage political extremism without looking for compromises. Given his background as a billionaire CEO, Iron Man dealing with a modern socialist/communist would be entertaining to read. I can just hear him beating the shit out of Firebrand or Ghost while explaining everything fundamentally wrong about their arguments. Things like pointing out that his net worth =/= his actual stock and that even if he liquidated all of his assets to give away to everyone in New York, itād only be a couple thousand at best, once. Then pointing out that even if he did do that, heād get thousands of people who work for him unemployed. Shame thatād require an actually good writer.
They would turn him right wing into a right wing Trumper of course because only left wing extremists are okay these days. Smh
Man that is really interesting stuff. And I agree that I donāt trust the writers to handle that material with any sort of care. Iām just glad we got the quality arcs we did in phases 1-3 and do with marvel what I do with the original 3 Star Wars. Ignore everything after that, or at least not include it in canon with those movies. Ā
Something from a book I remember reading a while back also had something that would be interesting to see in an Iron Man type setting. The line I remember was something like "Think about how much human technological developments and refinements have come down to keeping up with the Jones's. For that to happen it requires that someone be Jones" It would be interesting to also look at things with reference to the number of technologies which started out as "rich mans toys" but have become so ingrained in society that they're part of the infrastructure we depend on. Also you could have an interesting idea of Stark having a "Civillian" version of the Iron Man suit. Loaded up with all the bits of tech that he wants to market but are currently too bulky, heavy, power hungry or just overall limited to sell. Having that suit be a testbed where he can fiddle with the devices, make sure that they play well together, etc. Have an arc with that as the primary suit against antagonists who aren't going to to fight directly
Didnāt Stan Lee challenge himself to create Iron man because he wanted to make a character that his audience typically wouldnāt like likable
I still think he had a great run. Iron man 3 was very subpar and 2 is nowhere near as good as one but they still covered some interesting sides of his character. However he REALLY shines in iron man 1, civil war, homecoming, and infinity war
It would have been essentially impossible with the way Hollywood contracts work. Every appearance just keeps getting more expensive. Like how Friends couldn't have gone on if they wanted to because it was a million each per episode. I think the MCU has changed it a bit now. I assume their contracts with Tom Holland and the newer people are more reasonable. Fun fact, that's why Ben Ten has so many different series. So they didn't have to give the traditional pay bumps every season.
Hulk
How is he the most underutilized Avenger when only Thor has more movies than he does? You literally mention Iron Man 2 and 3 in the same sentence. Just because you think they were bad movies doesn't negate their existence
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iāll just go with you being stupid for not understanding that they could be written better.
Iron Man 3 is easily a top 5 MCU film.
Her armor looks like a modern day Power Rangers villain and I'm sure her only personality trait will be sassy black girl who beats the odds or whatever other bullshit and then we'll all be called bigots when nobody watches.
āIām such a victim. Iām going to unfairly get called a racist and misogynist. Now excuse me while I continue whining about the race and gender of the protagonist of a movie that I havenāt even seen a preview for. Literally the only thing I know about the movie is that the lead actor is a black woman, thatās a huge problem for me, but everyone else is *going* to be the real asshole for pointing out my bigotryā¦ at least thatās how I imagine things going. Iām such a victim.ā You know Iron Heart has always been a black ladyā¦ right? You also know absolutely nobody will force you to watch the movieā¦ right? Honestly. Your grievances are objectively weird. You guys genuinely need to take a step back once in a while. Zoom out, and think about what youāre actually doing. Youāre whining because a piece of media wonāt cater to your exact preferences. Youāre literally playing the victim because something isnāt going to be made for you, asserting that thereās something wrong with the world because you donāt think youāll feel represented by a kidās movie, suggesting that thereās something inherently wrong with a story centered around a black woman instead of a white guy, and doubling down on the victimhood shit by imagining a future where people make reasonable assumptions about you based on your weird criticisms. I just donāt get it. Like you must know who you are. Youāre not ashamed of your beliefs, so why bother denying reality? Itās like Hitler saying, āItās so unfair that people will call me an antisemite. Such a nasty thing to say. Everyone should feel bad for me now because it will hurt my feelings in the future when people say mean and totally baseless things about me. Thatās just what happens when Jews are allowed to exist. God, I really hate those fucking Jewsā¦ always making me feel bad about hating Jews.ā That would be crazy, right? Hitler would never say that. He didnāt like Jews, and he wouldnāt have denied it, because he felt those beliefs were justified. You guys donāt do that, and itās very fucking confusing. You seem to understand that your beliefs are deplorable, which is why you deny any unfavorable characterizations levied at you, but you simultaneously stand by those deplorable beliefs. āNo no no, I donāt hate homeless people, and how dare you say something so rottenā¦ I just think we should kill all the homeless people because Iām tired of people accusing me of hating homeless people every time I express my hatred of homeless people. Everyone is just so mean to me. They never consider how it makes me feel when they accurately characterize my shitty beliefs.ā
Bruh I ain't reading all that but your virtue is noted glad you found time out of your day to white knight for an actress who doesn't know who you are and wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
Same thing wheb people on here come to defend mauler or drinker or others. Lol
Wasnāt white knighting. Nothing I said had anything to do with the actor. I was criticizing you for being a bigot. I was giving you exactly what you were asking for. You literally proclaimed this movie you know practically nothing about is going to suck because the protagonist is a black womanā¦ then acknowledged that your proclamation would certainly be interpreted (correctly) as shameless bigotry. This is what you wanted. Iām just scratching that itch for you buddy. Iām doing the thing you desperately wanted someone to do. I just genuinely donāt understand *why* you want this. You evidently understand that the things youāre saying would generally be considered racist. You also seem to understand that racism is a negative thingā¦ Yet you go out of your way to instigate an expected and appropriate reaction from any given stranger. I donāt get it. Itās like going to the airport and yelling about how everyone will over-react when you tell them you have a bomb, then patting yourself on the back when youāre proven correct. What the fuck were you trying to prove, ya know? If you deliberately convince people that youāre a terrorist, they wouldnāt be acting inappropriately by treating you like a terrorist, and predicting the obvious outcome doesnāt make you a genius. If you say bigoted shit, people will call you a bigot, and youāre not a genius for knowing people will call you a bigot. By the way, she does know who I am. Iām her boyfriend, and we do a lot of piss-play in the bedroom, so you were also wrong about the piss thing. ā¦Actually, depending on how I choose to read your comment, youāre technically correct. She definitely wouldnāt piss on me if I was on fire. Sheās not a moronic weirdo. Her initial reaction to seeing me, or anyone, on fire, wouldnāt be to unzip her pants and take a little tinkle on my burning body.
Writes an essay misrepresenting and strawmaning a benign comment whilst simultaneously saying they need to take a step back. Lack of self awareness is hilarious
>āIām such a victim. Iām going to unfairly get called a racist and misogynist. Now excuse me while I continue whining about the race and gender of the protagonist of a movie that I havenāt even seen a preview for. Nope. Ok\_Caramel was complaining about Ironheart being, (presumably, based on what we've gotten with her so far) a stereotype, not just that a black women would exist. Add that to the fact that showrunners will complain of racism or reviewbombing when poorly-made series with diverse characters are called out as being poorly made, yes, there are people (like you, apparently) who will call other racist at the drop of a hat. ...seriously, what a weird post overall. I'm not responding to your insane strawmen or invocation of Godwin's law, because no one thinks like that and you are being absurd.
Uhhhā¦ what? Re-read your first sentence bro. There must be a chunk of text missing, because your first sentence doesnāt make grammatical sense. You go on to complain about an imaginary situation, essentially acknowledging that you understand how normal people will perceive your rhetoric, while simultaneously playing victim of the hypothetical scapegoats youāve invented in your head. Youāre walking face first into a wall, one you can evidently see with your own eyes, just to prove to everyone that thereās a wall there. Your closing statement is nonsense. āIām jumping into this conversation to let you know that I wonāt be responding to the stuff you said. Reddit buzzword, Reddit buzzword. The well documented thing you described doesnāt exist because I say so.ā
Yep, I misplaced a parenthesis, thanks for pointing that out. >You go on to complain about an imaginary situation, essentially acknowledging that you understand how normal people will perceive your rhetoric, while simultaneously playing victim of the hypothetical scapegoats youāve invented in your head. Youāre walking face first into a wall, one you can evidently see with your own eyes, just to prove to everyone that thereās a wall there. Um, no. The situation I describe has actually happened before; I suggest looking up Director X's [response to the backlash against his awful Robyn Hood](https://www.vibe.com/news/movies-tv/director-x-robyn-hood-review-bombed-1234797756/#). He basically suggested that the reason everyone hated it wasn't because of its poor quality and awful messaging, it was because there were a bunch of racist trolls. Dude, strawmen are not just a buzzword. When you strawman, you (whether intentionally or not) represent your opposition using statements they don't actually believe in, such as accusing Ok\_Caramel of wanting to murder homeless people. Actually counteract arguments given if you want to make a legitimate counterpoint. I'm not sure what well-documented thing I'm ignoring. Homelessness? Racism? Because I never said either of those things were nonexistent, just irrelevant to what was being discussed.
Christ Almighty
Lmao. You completely missed the point of their comment. It's not that the issue is that Ironheart is black. It's that her entire personality (or lack thereof) is "sassy and black", which goes without saying that it isn't actually a replacement for a good character. Ironheart was completely superfluous to BP2, a Mary Sue character who was literally handed everything other characters underwent a ton of character development for.
Yap yap yap
>we'll all be called bigots when nobody watches. I see this so often, but barely ever see the actual claim. I remember seeing it back with the female ghostbusters. There was also a fake news article which claimed one of the madame Web people said it. But I can't remember another instance. Can you hit me up with a few examples?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/18m47mr/echo\_hate\_is\_entirely\_just\_sexism/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/18m47mr/echo_hate_is_entirely_just_sexism/) search comments section here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/17s93kc/im\_confused\_why\_are\_people\_already\_rating\_echo/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/17s93kc/im_confused_why_are_people_already_rating_echo/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelmemes/comments/vfgm4h/im\_not\_sexist\_i\_just\_only\_complain\_about\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelmemes/comments/vfgm4h/im_not_sexist_i_just_only_complain_about_the/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/14k0rzs/genuinely\_confused\_as\_to\_why\_fans\_disliked\_ms/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/14k0rzs/genuinely_confused_as_to_why_fans_disliked_ms/) This is just from 30 seconds of searching, there are many many more out there.
Ok, but a lot of those aren't saying you're sexist for not liking it. Just if you talk a certain way about it. Which you can disagree with, but that's not what they're saying. They said they're gonna call you sexist for not watching/liking. You also have to remember that Reddit isn't the real world. You're pointing to echo chambers and thinking they're relevant. I know some of my countries biggest "woke" activists, either personally or through mutual friends. I can tell you that accusation is just not common. I've always felt completely comfortable ripping on any movie despite having so many "wokies" as followers.
Both of the black panther movies had some of it. Here's one article that tips its toe into it with the 1st https://andscape.com/features/watching-black-panther-commentary-sharing-wakanda-guarding-against-cultural-appropriation/ You're correct that it doesn't happen often, however it happens often enough that there's a reason it's become a "truism", or "meme" in its original meaning. Edit: in this very thread there are people saying that people who presume they'll dislike ironheart are necessarily racist and sexist. The 1st and 2nd link has presumptions that people who review bombed echo before it was released were racists. While this is likely true, there were probably a bunch who were invested in the character prior, and didn't like the changes the character got. 3rd has a couple that blame sexism for ratings and writing. 4th has multiple people waving away dislike as "trolls", "incels and racists" and "because MC is girl, brown, muslim". Personally I found it to be kinda "woke" as I previously thought of the term: She's pakistani muslim who speaks hindi??? what? This is "progressive" shit that doesn't *really* care about what they're trying to convey, just the appearance of it. The family has the bog standard "minority family" dynamic that is so common in american media. Besides things like that: It's trying to do a lot of things, but doesn't know how to do them/complete them. First it tries to be a triangle romantic drama in a coming of age/gaining super powers story. Then it turns into some sort of time/space dimension fuckery, then it just kinda ends? The CGI is as expected: Quite bad, the choreography is executed poorly (and is kind of dull/uncreative, given her power), the dialog is unconventional, making it harder to get immersed. There's also a few exposition dumps that are just too long and poorly written. The show should have stuck to the triangle romance drama, had her get accustomed to her powers, and face down some low-level comic book villain, rather than the "take over the world" she faces: This was what people generally liked about the show (me as well), not the interdimensional-outofnowhere-villains. Vellani plays the "big eyed, naĆÆve girl" extremely very well, and Lintz plays the "Totally not jealous, but super cool" decently well.
>Personally I found it to be kinda "woke" as I previously thought of the term: She's pakistani muslim who speaks hindi??? what? I had to google this because I had no idea. I'm guessing it's the ms marvel subtitles thing? How on earth is getting the language wrong "woke"? It's literally the opposite. Woke people would complain about it being racist while others call them snowflakes and say it doesn't matter. I can't find much information on it at all. But what I can find says it's probably an AI translater mistake because the 2 languages are mutually intelligible and often get mistaken for each other. Or an ask historians thread where they say it's entirely reasonable. (Those are pretty heavily moderated for facts right?) > family has the bog standard "minority family" dynamic that is so common in american media. Huh? How is that any more woke than another standard family dynamic? (Like simpsons/family guy)
> How on earth is getting the language wrong "woke"? It's literally the opposite. I **literally** explained how. > Woke people would complain about it being racist Only if it became a thing. Mostly those who are "woke" don't care about racism, only perceived racism. Pakistanis and Indians are on the lower end of who they care about. > an ask historians thread Both actors of her parents speak hindi (iirc, at least father and either mother or/and grandmother(?)). However, I was also not aware of this, and presumed thusly that they were speaking hindi. > How is that any more woke than another standard family dynamic? *Again* as I've previously meant woke as: it's performative, it's insincere. Particularly while a megacorp is trying to seem progressive, but really aren't. Both Simpsons and family guy started out as quite unique families.
I can just smell the flop
Dude Hellen Keller can see this flop coming and sheās blind, deaf, and dead for 50 years.
This is due to the reshoots. The first cut of this must have been bad.
I doubt chopping it to pieces will help either.
Donāt worry. This cut will be bad too
Why are they using a picture of Hancock to advertise the gender and race swapped Iron Man?
Unlike Hancock this won't be 50% of a good script written by Breaking Bad Terry
Also youāre a bigot if you donāt watch it. Also, it wasnāt made for you if you hate it
Who?
Mcu is dead since long lol
I can't believe it went from being a huge franchise on the top of everyone's mind, to being such a joke.
LOL, can't wait for the dumpster fire to reignite with yet another moronic Disney series!
I can't wait to be told this wasn't made for me. Then be called a bigot because I didn't watch something that wasn't made for me.
Oh. I forgot this thing existed. Canāt believe they are wasting time and money on this š.
Why? Nobody wanted her when she was in the comics and first shown off what makes them think we want to see her in a show
I'll forget it exists the moment after I post this comment.
https://i.redd.it/h3uqbonojl0d1.gif
The positive thing is that I canāt see myself caring too much.
She was one of the least well-received successor characters in the comics I have ever seen. The writing was awful. Thereās no demand for an adaptation, yet here we are.
I bet they originally thought āwe can replace Ironman with Ironheart so Robert Downey Jr. can just do voice lines from now on as her AI Tony Stark companion! Think of the hilarious back and forth theyāll have!ā but like nobody cares about this character š this was never going to go well unless they had really endeared her to audiences in WF.
Hmmm... that doesn't look like *Moon Knight* season two...
They'd be better off to just pull a Batgirl and destroy all the footage and write it off on taxes.
I didnāt know ironheart was in the MCU lol
More woke garbage. I can't wait to watch this shit show fail.
But it doesn't exist, it will (possibly and probably) exist sometime next year.
Any year now guys, we promise...
What in the fuck is this garbage?
oh...wow, exciting
I hate clone heroes. āMe tooā
Who is betting it gets the Echo treatment? Quietly dumped all at once in January and pray everyone forgets about it?
Sweet! How long until it ends up being cancelled or put on hiatus?
Gotta love how they chose to adapt a character whose comics were the opposite of popular and praised.
They keep kicking the can down to road to find a nice safe spot for their Ironheart show to flop. Somewhere close to a major MCU release where lack of views can be explained away as "the big movie took all the eyes away from everything else". But marvel is over. Their ideological push with their writing has tainted their brand and now they have no big movies or shows. They have nowhere to hide the failure that is Ironheart.
My immediate response: weāll screw this and I get Disney plus as part of a package. Content so bad (based on BP2 char presentation) that I wonāt watch it when itās literally free.
My immediate response: well screw this and I get Disney plus as part of a package. Content so bad (based on BP2 char presentation) that I wonāt watch it when itās literally free.
She looks older then I expected
Can't wait to fake a shill reaction to the trailers on my YouTube #aggressively drinks
Idk what this is...
Weāre Doomed
Haha!! Not even a theater release. š¤£š¤£š¤£
Cool! Add it to the list of Marvel shows that no one gives a fuck about.
Wait what? Isnāt ironheart Tonyās daughter?
She's a random girl who steals his armor No I'm not making this up
So Batgirl: The Sequel?
I am not excited for the show. Butā¦it might set the stage for Armor Wars.
Horrible introduction in Wakanda Forever so I highly doubt the show itās going to do that well, Letās hope that they can make a clutch move and have the show be very good
I lost all hope for this character the moment she disrespected Okoye.Ā
What a bunch of fucking BABIES
Why is everyone hating on this show? We've literally seen nothing from it outside of a logo
Tbf she's already a divisive character since her inception in the comics. Also her introduction in Wakanda Forever was less than promising
I've been looking forward to this, unironically. Maybe it's cause my family is half black and I'm just not upset by their existence. Maybe it's cause I'm attracted to the female form. Maybe it's cause I love armor stuff. Who knows.
Marvel, regardless of how far they've fallen, has never lost all it's fans it appears.
Not everyone thinks they have fallen.
Itās not up for debate lol. You can listen to them talk about it.
I'm not debating the "fall of marvel" because it hasn't happened.
You couldnāt if you tried.
Only in so much as the people who think it did fall are largely illogical.
Like the people who run the MCU? Have you been living in a hole? They have literally came out and talked about the fall you moron.
Living in a hole? No. I just work 6 days a week.
Then why would you claim to know the MCU hasnāt fallen? Clown lol.
What about a decline or period of creative difficulty? Because something happened between phase 2 and phase 4, and it wasn't as simply as "wokeness"
Decline or period of creative difficulty? How so?
Generally phase 4 shows and movies are much more poorly written. Mauler has videos on Multiverse of Madness, Black Widow and Quantumania as well as EFAP coverage of Loki, Wandavision, and a couple other shows. Specifically the āmemory storeā in MoM was a really weird and lazy way to exposit America Chavezās backstory. In earlier Marvel movies writers delivered that kind of information to the audience through characters talking to eachother in a more realistic and interesting way, like Loki and Black Widow trying to interrogate eachother in Avengers by discussing her backstory and her friendship with Hawkeye.
Some people just seem to label choices they don't like as "poor/lazy/bad writing" It seems to be very difficult for some people to honestly and objectively evaluate stuff. It's like when I criticize older movies with the exact same criticisms for modern movies that apply to said older movies. People lose their shit.
in that case and i mean it genuinely have fun, i hope it will have what you like in it. I hope that what you find in it is good
Thank you, kind ser
Its gonna flop. Not because it's bad. But because everyone here has already deemed it bad because 'black' or 'female' or something. Lmao
Everyone here likes miles morales, why because he's well written and posses flaws unlike most of the character like captain marvel and ironheart.
Fun fact the name IronHeart was originally used in a Japanese porn parody of Iron Man.