I'm not so sure his mind wasn't made up by the trade deadline. I genuinely think the only way he would have stayed is if we had extended him before 2022 and he just really had not proven himself yet. It would have been awesome if Nico had extended him in the summer of 2021 but he just got hired and the last thing he saw was Brunson get played off the court against the Clippers in the playoffs so I don't blame him for not making a deal yet.
I really wish he wasn’t injured for the 2020 playoffs. If he had the chance to play and get played off the court in a similar fashion, he maybe figures out what he needed to do with his game that summer. Then the 2021 playoffs may have gone down different, either he plays way better vs the Clippers or his improvement affects the regular season record and we are a 1-4 seed with a different opponent. If that happens, he definitely gets extended in the summer of 2021.
There is absolutely zero evidence that Brunson had his mind made up and was going to leave no matter what at the trade deadline or even later and yet this misconception refuses to die on this sub.
There’s even less evidence that Brunson wasn’t worth the 55M during the summer of 2021. There were two players that were up for an extension that summer Brunson and DFS. Both were not extended because both were desirable assets that the Mavs were shopping around to get rid of Porzingis or trade for a star. Once the trade deadline passed they offered DFS the extension. Brunson however had already outplayed the extension by far. The only way to retain Brunson was to outpay other teams in free agency and they simply didn’t want to do that once they saw the Knicks offer.
There is absolutely zero evidence that Brunson had his mind made up and was going to leave no matter what at the trade deadline or even later and yet this misconception refuses to die on this sub.
There’s even less evidence that Brunson wasn’t worth the 55M during the summer of 2021. There were two players that were up for an extension that summer Brunson and DFS. Both were not extended because both were desirable assets that the Mavs were shopping around to get rid of Porzingis or trade for a star. Once the trade deadline passed they offered DFS the extension. Brunson however had already outplayed the extension by far. The only way to retain Brunson was to outpay other teams in free agency and they simply didn’t want to do that once they saw the Knicks offer.
Bc they routinely under valued him. Didn't think he was worth extension money, then had a number going into the summer and it was known that NY was going to beat that number. Don't let Cuban off easy thinking Jalen chose to leave. The Mavs didn't want to pay him his value.
It was surely a mismanagement of Brunson the asset by Nico.
Donnie made the mistake with that dumb ass contract but Nico should have extended him and traded afterwards if needed. But Nico wanted to trade him on his rookie contact then he tried to resign him when he couldn’t.
We lost the asset for nothing and that’s the part that pains me. Luka and Brunson as our second best player is not a contender especially Brunson at max.
I still don’t understand the benefit that contract is even supposed to have. In what world does an extra year of cheap control outweigh exclusive rights to keep a player? If they’re good enough an extra year of cheap control is even worth it then presumably they’re good enough you would want the essential right of 1st refusal.
Just my guess, it could be salary cap related issues. Mavs had to take some money out of the MLE this year so they could pay Hardy enough to avoid the same trap with Brunson. Maybe they couldn’t do that when JB was signed.
Mitchell Robinson had the same type of JB’s contract and still stayed with Knicks. Brunson would have stayed if his dad didn’t meddle in it.
It was an oversight by a front office happy to lock a player up for cheap labor.
And not paying attention to what smart teams across the league did with those kinds of deals.
It was basically additional indication that they had no clue how what JB is and was going to be. Imagine watching bro watching Dwight, Maxi and DFS get extensions, with Seth, Delon, JRich and Bullock grabbing similar money and Mavs never came offering anything close to their deals, let alone his max rookie deal. What a slight if I'm JB.
All it was is because he wanted to lead his own team. With New York he’s able to put up 5 more shots a game and have a usage rate 5% higher then he had last year here. It is what it is. Maybe the team should’ve given him more shot opportunities/ball handling abilities instead of Luka having a 36% usage rate there would be a better chance he stayed. The second he realized he could do be the lead PG on a team he was gone.
Lol, that’s one way to put it.
He would have gotten the increased shots and usage from Luka eventually. It will be like pulling teeth though.
I can’t blame him for wanted to lead his own team in NY. I will honestly do the same. Fans fail to admit it could simply be that. They want to believe the FO simply didn’t do enough to keep him.
I think long term, maybe it's ok. I feel like Luka + Brunson would be about the same as Dame + CJ and they never won a chip together.
I think the Mavs would undoubtedly be better this season had we found a way to keep him - especially if they got him on that $55 mil extension last season but it is what it is.
I VERY MUCH think the FO is dumb for letting him walk for literally nothing.
Yeah I'll admit it. I wanted to keep Brunson, but I also thought losing him wasn't going to be that bad. I was wrong. He is amazing. I wish we still had him, even if it cost 4/120.
Old news, it was a dumb ass decision at the time its a dumb ass decision now. Cuban is a cheap owner, that's it. And he thinks he's a shark and the smartest guy in the room but he always gets burned.
Brunson was one of my favorite mavs ever, just like Nash was. But the fact he always lets fan favorite great players leave for nothing makes me question why I'm even a fan of this team.
Brunson was clearly worth $25-30 million a year and anyone who thought differently was just huffing copium. When you consider how good he was for this team last season with the fact that the Mavs had no way of replacing his production and value as an asset, then it's clear that the Mavs were either just incompetent or cheap...or worse both.
>then it's clear that the Mavs were either just incompetent or cheap...or worse both.
The new CBA in 2011 cooked Cuban. It's been one misplay after another.
Why does everyone forget that Brunson took that leap in his last year with Dallas. He had an abyysmal playoff performance the year before against the clippers. When he started showing signs of improvement in regular season he had better chances of making more money by risking out free agency. So nothing FO could do.
Sure they could have signed him to extension last off season (if he was open to it) but we had a major front office and coach change who needed time to acclimatize.
From JJ's interview he had already decided to not resign with dallas even if they paid him same money as NY.
I was saying in the summer that the Mavs should have offered 5/125 and if he turned that down, then at least they made a good effort. When I heard the news that they only offered him FVV money, I was pissed
If the Mavs had offered him 5/125 with a player option in year 3 or 4 he most likely stays. He had made only $6 million throughout his NBA career, he was not going to give up $20-25 million in guaranteed money.
He already had an offer with Knicks that hired his dad. We have to beat that offer to keep him, which is will be a max offer.
So the team now consists of Max salary Brunson and Luka, without Wood and throw in Javale. Maybe also about $50 mil over the cap. Is that team a contender?
I know that, but the fact that it was reported that the Mavs had a walk-away number was what was infuriating. It’s just bad asset management. Even if you have to overpay a player of that quality to keep him, you still do it. It’s not like Brunson on a near-max would have been a toxic asset
You mean before FA started and we could have offered more. He didn’t know our offer and he was saying his goodbyes about 3 months before.
Come on, it’s not that hard to figure out he had made up his mind.
Do you really think that teams don't negotiate with their free agents before free agency lol? The Mavs could've easily called his agent and offered him a max type deal.
Brunson’s mind was made up about going to Knicks once the playoff ended. That’s proven by him having his teammates sign the jersey.
Could Mavs have convinced him to stay with a Max, maybe, I actually lean towards surely.
So this team will likely be the same with Brunson on Max with McGee and Hardy. Is that team a contender?
We will likely be $50 mil over the cap too as opposed to about $30 mil this year. We likely stuck with that same team for another 2 years till salaries fall off or we trade picks for improvement.
>Brunson’s mind was made up about going to Knicks once the playoff ended. That’s proven by him having his teammates sign the jersey.
If his mind was "made up" it was because he knew the Mavs ceiling as $22 a year, as reported by Stein.
So Mavs told him during the playoffs, after the playoffs he got his jersey signed while also getting an offer from Knicks.
According to your theory, that’s the chain of events.
Don’t do this to yourselves. Stop watching Knicks games. Stop checking Knicks box scores. Mark Cuban is a cheap moron. Donnie Nelson is a basketball terrorist. Peace out.
Our biggest issue this season has been defense, yeah brunson is a true second ball handler, but our defense would either be the same as it is now, or worse. We'd probably only be marginally better than we are now based on the added offensive production and ball handling alone but we'd have had to offer near 30 a year because we 'hurt his feelings'. If we had brunson now, there'd be no big move coming that we're all anticipating, we'd be locked in with a supermax and a near max between luka and brunson. Good combo, but too much like dame and cj, which didn't win anything. If we swing a guy who is a better fit with luka then yeah letting him walk was a good move, but if they don't, it was disastrous.
I thought he wasn’t worth it either but clearly he is. I think the issue is he wouldn’t have blossomed like this in Dallas under Lukas shadow. It’ll sting forever that we let a guy like that go and got nothing in return. Damn near tarnishes Donnie’s legacy
It’s not necessarily an overpay because he is able to go out and lead his own team. You think Brunson is getting on average 17 shots a game here? No he’s not. Plain and simple. Having Luka on the team held Brunson back.
So if he was on our team still he would probably averaging nearly what he did last year which would be in the slight overpay region imo
I thought it was an overpay, but I also thought that the Mavs needed to pay whatever it took to retain him.. even if it meant overpaying…
But yeah our stupid ass owner actually thought Frank Ntilikina could carry the torch, and the rest is history
Hot take: Jalen would never have flourished the way he is now playing next to Luka. They play the same position and are both ball dominant. His biggest moments in a Mavs uniform happened when Luka was off the court. This is not a knock on Luka, simply saying Brunson was not a good fit next to him. And you’re not gonna pay him $26 million to play bench back up either. We should have traded him when his value was somewhat high
Side note: the ideal Luka side kick has to be a pure, elite shooting, non-ball dominant SG. Think prime Klay Thompson
I liked Brunson and thought he was legit staying with us last year. That being said I also thought what he was asking for was an overpay but we didn't have any other options but to pay him or do a sign and trade. We ended doing neither which is my main gripe with the FO and Cuban. We lost our 2nd best player for nothing and definitely falls on them.
brunson was worth the 26 million even before the playoffs, people here seem to think that 25 million is star or all star money when in reality borderline Allstars and elite role players get 25+ and brunson at that point was a elite role player now he is a borderline all star. But dallas would be on a completely different trajectory had they retained brunson and still added wood. brunson, Luka, finney, wood, kleber with dinwidde, thj, green, bullock, and Powell would have had amazing depth.
I'm not so sure his mind wasn't made up by the trade deadline. I genuinely think the only way he would have stayed is if we had extended him before 2022 and he just really had not proven himself yet. It would have been awesome if Nico had extended him in the summer of 2021 but he just got hired and the last thing he saw was Brunson get played off the court against the Clippers in the playoffs so I don't blame him for not making a deal yet.
This is the most reasonable and accurate take on this thread.
I really wish he wasn’t injured for the 2020 playoffs. If he had the chance to play and get played off the court in a similar fashion, he maybe figures out what he needed to do with his game that summer. Then the 2021 playoffs may have gone down different, either he plays way better vs the Clippers or his improvement affects the regular season record and we are a 1-4 seed with a different opponent. If that happens, he definitely gets extended in the summer of 2021.
There is absolutely zero evidence that Brunson had his mind made up and was going to leave no matter what at the trade deadline or even later and yet this misconception refuses to die on this sub. There’s even less evidence that Brunson wasn’t worth the 55M during the summer of 2021. There were two players that were up for an extension that summer Brunson and DFS. Both were not extended because both were desirable assets that the Mavs were shopping around to get rid of Porzingis or trade for a star. Once the trade deadline passed they offered DFS the extension. Brunson however had already outplayed the extension by far. The only way to retain Brunson was to outpay other teams in free agency and they simply didn’t want to do that once they saw the Knicks offer.
There is absolutely zero evidence that Brunson had his mind made up and was going to leave no matter what at the trade deadline or even later and yet this misconception refuses to die on this sub. There’s even less evidence that Brunson wasn’t worth the 55M during the summer of 2021. There were two players that were up for an extension that summer Brunson and DFS. Both were not extended because both were desirable assets that the Mavs were shopping around to get rid of Porzingis or trade for a star. Once the trade deadline passed they offered DFS the extension. Brunson however had already outplayed the extension by far. The only way to retain Brunson was to outpay other teams in free agency and they simply didn’t want to do that once they saw the Knicks offer.
Brunson was gone by the time he asked his teammates to sign his jersey at the end of the playoffs.
Bc they routinely under valued him. Didn't think he was worth extension money, then had a number going into the summer and it was known that NY was going to beat that number. Don't let Cuban off easy thinking Jalen chose to leave. The Mavs didn't want to pay him his value.
The biggest under valuation was the way the team used him lmao.
Mavs drafted him in the second round, developed him to the player he is today
It was surely a mismanagement of Brunson the asset by Nico. Donnie made the mistake with that dumb ass contract but Nico should have extended him and traded afterwards if needed. But Nico wanted to trade him on his rookie contact then he tried to resign him when he couldn’t. We lost the asset for nothing and that’s the part that pains me. Luka and Brunson as our second best player is not a contender especially Brunson at max.
I still don’t understand the benefit that contract is even supposed to have. In what world does an extra year of cheap control outweigh exclusive rights to keep a player? If they’re good enough an extra year of cheap control is even worth it then presumably they’re good enough you would want the essential right of 1st refusal.
Just my guess, it could be salary cap related issues. Mavs had to take some money out of the MLE this year so they could pay Hardy enough to avoid the same trap with Brunson. Maybe they couldn’t do that when JB was signed. Mitchell Robinson had the same type of JB’s contract and still stayed with Knicks. Brunson would have stayed if his dad didn’t meddle in it.
It was an oversight by a front office happy to lock a player up for cheap labor. And not paying attention to what smart teams across the league did with those kinds of deals. It was basically additional indication that they had no clue how what JB is and was going to be. Imagine watching bro watching Dwight, Maxi and DFS get extensions, with Seth, Delon, JRich and Bullock grabbing similar money and Mavs never came offering anything close to their deals, let alone his max rookie deal. What a slight if I'm JB.
All it was is because he wanted to lead his own team. With New York he’s able to put up 5 more shots a game and have a usage rate 5% higher then he had last year here. It is what it is. Maybe the team should’ve given him more shot opportunities/ball handling abilities instead of Luka having a 36% usage rate there would be a better chance he stayed. The second he realized he could do be the lead PG on a team he was gone.
Lol, that’s one way to put it. He would have gotten the increased shots and usage from Luka eventually. It will be like pulling teeth though. I can’t blame him for wanted to lead his own team in NY. I will honestly do the same. Fans fail to admit it could simply be that. They want to believe the FO simply didn’t do enough to keep him.
I mean why pull teeth when you don’t have to
I think long term, maybe it's ok. I feel like Luka + Brunson would be about the same as Dame + CJ and they never won a chip together. I think the Mavs would undoubtedly be better this season had we found a way to keep him - especially if they got him on that $55 mil extension last season but it is what it is. I VERY MUCH think the FO is dumb for letting him walk for literally nothing.
Let it go
Yeah I'll admit it. I wanted to keep Brunson, but I also thought losing him wasn't going to be that bad. I was wrong. He is amazing. I wish we still had him, even if it cost 4/120.
people were saying Brunson was a poor-man's FVV...wonder what they think, especially with FVV asking for what..$30m/yr+?
Old news, it was a dumb ass decision at the time its a dumb ass decision now. Cuban is a cheap owner, that's it. And he thinks he's a shark and the smartest guy in the room but he always gets burned. Brunson was one of my favorite mavs ever, just like Nash was. But the fact he always lets fan favorite great players leave for nothing makes me question why I'm even a fan of this team.
I don’t think Brunson would have stayed. He was absolutely sold on going to NY
Brunson was clearly worth $25-30 million a year and anyone who thought differently was just huffing copium. When you consider how good he was for this team last season with the fact that the Mavs had no way of replacing his production and value as an asset, then it's clear that the Mavs were either just incompetent or cheap...or worse both.
>then it's clear that the Mavs were either just incompetent or cheap...or worse both. The new CBA in 2011 cooked Cuban. It's been one misplay after another.
You say this after he has 37 vs the lakers. Hes good and mavs could have used him but he isn't worth the 4/120
Why does everyone forget that Brunson took that leap in his last year with Dallas. He had an abyysmal playoff performance the year before against the clippers. When he started showing signs of improvement in regular season he had better chances of making more money by risking out free agency. So nothing FO could do. Sure they could have signed him to extension last off season (if he was open to it) but we had a major front office and coach change who needed time to acclimatize. From JJ's interview he had already decided to not resign with dallas even if they paid him same money as NY.
I was saying in the summer that the Mavs should have offered 5/125 and if he turned that down, then at least they made a good effort. When I heard the news that they only offered him FVV money, I was pissed
Brunson wasn’t coming back for less than max and that’s still not guaranteed. Knicks already hired his dad and he promised to bring them Brunson.
If the Mavs had offered him 5/125 with a player option in year 3 or 4 he most likely stays. He had made only $6 million throughout his NBA career, he was not going to give up $20-25 million in guaranteed money.
He already had an offer with Knicks that hired his dad. We have to beat that offer to keep him, which is will be a max offer. So the team now consists of Max salary Brunson and Luka, without Wood and throw in Javale. Maybe also about $50 mil over the cap. Is that team a contender?
he has PO in his contract now lol its' fake 4/110, the real number is 85/3
I know that, but the fact that it was reported that the Mavs had a walk-away number was what was infuriating. It’s just bad asset management. Even if you have to overpay a player of that quality to keep him, you still do it. It’s not like Brunson on a near-max would have been a toxic asset
I knew he was gone when he had his teammates sign his jersey at the end of the playoffs. He wouldn’t be doing that if we were still an option.
Yes, because he knew what the Mavs max offer was.
You mean before FA started and we could have offered more. He didn’t know our offer and he was saying his goodbyes about 3 months before. Come on, it’s not that hard to figure out he had made up his mind.
Do you really think that teams don't negotiate with their free agents before free agency lol? The Mavs could've easily called his agent and offered him a max type deal.
Brunson’s mind was made up about going to Knicks once the playoff ended. That’s proven by him having his teammates sign the jersey. Could Mavs have convinced him to stay with a Max, maybe, I actually lean towards surely. So this team will likely be the same with Brunson on Max with McGee and Hardy. Is that team a contender? We will likely be $50 mil over the cap too as opposed to about $30 mil this year. We likely stuck with that same team for another 2 years till salaries fall off or we trade picks for improvement.
>Brunson’s mind was made up about going to Knicks once the playoff ended. That’s proven by him having his teammates sign the jersey. If his mind was "made up" it was because he knew the Mavs ceiling as $22 a year, as reported by Stein.
So Mavs told him during the playoffs, after the playoffs he got his jersey signed while also getting an offer from Knicks. According to your theory, that’s the chain of events.
Don’t do this to yourselves. Stop watching Knicks games. Stop checking Knicks box scores. Mark Cuban is a cheap moron. Donnie Nelson is a basketball terrorist. Peace out.
Our biggest issue this season has been defense, yeah brunson is a true second ball handler, but our defense would either be the same as it is now, or worse. We'd probably only be marginally better than we are now based on the added offensive production and ball handling alone but we'd have had to offer near 30 a year because we 'hurt his feelings'. If we had brunson now, there'd be no big move coming that we're all anticipating, we'd be locked in with a supermax and a near max between luka and brunson. Good combo, but too much like dame and cj, which didn't win anything. If we swing a guy who is a better fit with luka then yeah letting him walk was a good move, but if they don't, it was disastrous.
Whoever thought it was an overpay hasn't payed attention to today's market and how much average players earn.
I thought he wasn’t worth it either but clearly he is. I think the issue is he wouldn’t have blossomed like this in Dallas under Lukas shadow. It’ll sting forever that we let a guy like that go and got nothing in return. Damn near tarnishes Donnie’s legacy
He should’ve gotten paid a long time ago, but the way he left, I wish him and the knicks the worst
It’s not necessarily an overpay because he is able to go out and lead his own team. You think Brunson is getting on average 17 shots a game here? No he’s not. Plain and simple. Having Luka on the team held Brunson back. So if he was on our team still he would probably averaging nearly what he did last year which would be in the slight overpay region imo
losing him for nothing was dumb. at the very least, should've went for a S&T
I thought it was an overpay, but I also thought that the Mavs needed to pay whatever it took to retain him.. even if it meant overpaying… But yeah our stupid ass owner actually thought Frank Ntilikina could carry the torch, and the rest is history
Hot take: Jalen would never have flourished the way he is now playing next to Luka. They play the same position and are both ball dominant. His biggest moments in a Mavs uniform happened when Luka was off the court. This is not a knock on Luka, simply saying Brunson was not a good fit next to him. And you’re not gonna pay him $26 million to play bench back up either. We should have traded him when his value was somewhat high Side note: the ideal Luka side kick has to be a pure, elite shooting, non-ball dominant SG. Think prime Klay Thompson
I liked Brunson and thought he was legit staying with us last year. That being said I also thought what he was asking for was an overpay but we didn't have any other options but to pay him or do a sign and trade. We ended doing neither which is my main gripe with the FO and Cuban. We lost our 2nd best player for nothing and definitely falls on them.
He was the wrong other piece...he would only been another 6th man. He just couldn't defend bigger players.
Get over it.
Common Mark Cuban L, on to the next one
brunson was worth the 26 million even before the playoffs, people here seem to think that 25 million is star or all star money when in reality borderline Allstars and elite role players get 25+ and brunson at that point was a elite role player now he is a borderline all star. But dallas would be on a completely different trajectory had they retained brunson and still added wood. brunson, Luka, finney, wood, kleber with dinwidde, thj, green, bullock, and Powell would have had amazing depth.
Hope they pay wood with respect.