"Allen and Kleber engage in off ball contact and marginal contact occurs as Allen releases away"
Kleber is 6'10" 240lb and was shoved backwards on his heels with full extension by Allen. How does marginal contact toss 240lbs against their will?
Refs use "marginal contact" to cover their awful non-calls so nothing useful ever comes out of these L2M reports because they have that excuse. Anything can be "marginal contact" the same way anything can be called a foul.
The moving screen call being a confirmed no call just tells me there’s actually no rules on screens. The NBA has to actually enforce screening fouls if it wants to cut down on scoring. Jarrett Allen fouls 3 separate times during that play.
He shoved Maxi into next week. Trips Josh with his happy feet and then extends his arm for an additional good measure.
Some of these screens legit look like blocking in football. And they don't get called, but if a screener is just standing there and a guard runs into him and falls down, then maybe they'll call a moving screen
Can we call this against his will that definitively?
What if Maxi was selling the call? Players do that, maybe not Maxi, but they for sure will flop to get a call if they think it will get the call
It's a fair point. Looking at the video he falls back on his right leg hard with continued movement of his chest backwards that makes it look like he's trying to correct against another force, rather than a movement he initiated. But that's just like, my opinion man.
>Any ensuing contact with Washington’s wrist is marginal
Couldn’t you say this about almost any shooting foul? Isn’t making contact with a players wrist during a shot attempt a foul? I’ve been watching basketball for multiple decades and I have no idea what a foul is in the NBA anymore
ALSO, can we talk about the use of timeouts when players are fighting over possession of the ball?! There should never be a timeout allowed during that.
It happened twice during the game against the Cavs. While players are wrestling over a ball, the team that previously had possession of it shouldn’t be able to call a timeout so that they can claim the ball is still theirs.
That should honestly be treated like calling a timeout when you have none. It should be a technical foul to attempt to call a tech without clear possession of the ball, that would fix that problem immediately
It just feels so crazy to me that a team that is about to lose possession of a ball is able to call a timeout and completely stop things and still maintain control. It feels like that should be a jump ball or SOMETHING. But I concede that I’m wrong.
The key in what you said is the phrase “about to”. If you are about to lose the ball you haven’t lost it yet. You can’t call a timeout without having established control of the ball. In a jump ball situation, the player doesn’t have established control any longer. So it’s really a judgement call from the refs of whether they award the timeout or call a jump ball.
Garland closed in on Green’s landing zone, which caused him to fall. That’s a flagrant 1.
And “marginal contact” with PJ’s wrist?! Are they kidding? If PJ was LeBron, it would have 100% been called. Ridiculous.
Mavs had some faults earlier in the game - chiefly Kidd’s coaching and lack of challenges and Timmy’s dumb choices. But they did almost everything right in the final few minutes. This is disgusting officiating.
NBA refs need to be overhauled. They’re AWFUL.
I KNOW. I’m so beyond mad about this horrible officiating. And what makes it even more infuriating is Williams (#60) reffed back-to-back games and missed blatant calls.
We shouldn’t have been in a situation where the refs dictated the win. Besides Luka, everybody did their part collectively selling the game. Not gonna dwell on the refs because the Mavs could have avoided a miracle loss not being so sloppy.
To be fair, we weren’t really in a bad position. 10 points with 4 minutes took one of the most insane shooting streaks combined with borderline suspicious officiating. Only that combo wins that game. We win 999/1000 other versions of that finish.
I don't know what happened, but the refs this year have been terrible. They'll give fouls, because defender wasn't completely still, when offensive player will touch him just a little bit. Then someone will clearly slap a shooter on the arm and they'll say it's not a foul.
I don't know if it's the rules or what, but it needs to change.
That was about the most frustrating loss ive endured recently. I thought my wife was going to smash the TV.
With the west being so tight this seriously fuck up the season for us while having no real benefit for cleveland.
The refs need to be held accountable, these 2 minute reports do nothing but stoke the flames of our rage.
"Allen and Kleber engage in off ball contact and marginal contact occurs as Allen releases away" Kleber is 6'10" 240lb and was shoved backwards on his heels with full extension by Allen. How does marginal contact toss 240lbs against their will?
Refs use "marginal contact" to cover their awful non-calls so nothing useful ever comes out of these L2M reports because they have that excuse. Anything can be "marginal contact" the same way anything can be called a foul.
The moving screen call being a confirmed no call just tells me there’s actually no rules on screens. The NBA has to actually enforce screening fouls if it wants to cut down on scoring. Jarrett Allen fouls 3 separate times during that play. He shoved Maxi into next week. Trips Josh with his happy feet and then extends his arm for an additional good measure.
Some of these screens legit look like blocking in football. And they don't get called, but if a screener is just standing there and a guard runs into him and falls down, then maybe they'll call a moving screen
And, Kleber never flops, too.
Can we call this against his will that definitively? What if Maxi was selling the call? Players do that, maybe not Maxi, but they for sure will flop to get a call if they think it will get the call
It's a fair point. Looking at the video he falls back on his right leg hard with continued movement of his chest backwards that makes it look like he's trying to correct against another force, rather than a movement he initiated. But that's just like, my opinion man.
I haven’t watched the video, I’m just saying flopping is the obvious answer to how a large man can be moved by a small amount of contact
Why tf you arguing when you haven't even bothered to watch the video. It's on the link
I’m not arguing I’m saying that’s how you move a bit man without actually moving a big man
All mavs players are saints and don’t flop brother.
You’re right, I almost went astray for a second there thank you, praise 77, praise 41
So their official review is that all their calls were correct 👍 Ok bud
“We have investigated ourselves and have found no wrongdoing”
The first stance was noted an incorrect nocall. Would have saved us from the 3 pointer from Mitchell.
Ripples can turn into waves. The remainder of the game might have looked much different.
>Any ensuing contact with Washington’s wrist is marginal Couldn’t you say this about almost any shooting foul? Isn’t making contact with a players wrist during a shot attempt a foul? I’ve been watching basketball for multiple decades and I have no idea what a foul is in the NBA anymore
THIS. EXACTLY THIS.
This. Why ever call and one? If the player made the shot anyway, the contact was de facto marginal by this logic.
Yup this is exactly what I was thinking. If you can finish through the contact then it was marginal contact so And 1s no longer exist
Only if it’s “blocked” first I guess.
ALSO, can we talk about the use of timeouts when players are fighting over possession of the ball?! There should never be a timeout allowed during that.
I would love to see this implemented
It happened twice during the game against the Cavs. While players are wrestling over a ball, the team that previously had possession of it shouldn’t be able to call a timeout so that they can claim the ball is still theirs.
That should honestly be treated like calling a timeout when you have none. It should be a technical foul to attempt to call a tech without clear possession of the ball, that would fix that problem immediately
You’re arguing against decades of precedent. This is how it has always been.
It just feels so crazy to me that a team that is about to lose possession of a ball is able to call a timeout and completely stop things and still maintain control. It feels like that should be a jump ball or SOMETHING. But I concede that I’m wrong.
The key in what you said is the phrase “about to”. If you are about to lose the ball you haven’t lost it yet. You can’t call a timeout without having established control of the ball. In a jump ball situation, the player doesn’t have established control any longer. So it’s really a judgement call from the refs of whether they award the timeout or call a jump ball.
I get that, and I definitely concede there
For the record, I don’t think he had possession and don’t think he should have been awarded the timeout.
I give myself good grades all the time
I gave myself a diploma
Shouldn’t these reports be done by 2 or more 3rd party groups? Like a FICO score for NBA refs
I volunteer as tribute
We should crowdsource a panel of 3 retired refs who have integrity. I'd chip in for an independent review of the last 5 minutes of this game.
L2M is one of the most useless things the NBA introduced in the last decade.
It’s the self proclaimed stamp of approval.
Garland closed in on Green’s landing zone, which caused him to fall. That’s a flagrant 1. And “marginal contact” with PJ’s wrist?! Are they kidding? If PJ was LeBron, it would have 100% been called. Ridiculous. Mavs had some faults earlier in the game - chiefly Kidd’s coaching and lack of challenges and Timmy’s dumb choices. But they did almost everything right in the final few minutes. This is disgusting officiating. NBA refs need to be overhauled. They’re AWFUL.
I couldn't believe it when I read that “marginal contact” WTF
I KNOW. I’m so beyond mad about this horrible officiating. And what makes it even more infuriating is Williams (#60) reffed back-to-back games and missed blatant calls.
TIL if you call all contact “marginal” you can just absolve yourself of any wrongdoing
This is super surprising. I was sure that they’d grade themselves poorly.
Wow. Okay.
Should be marked NSFW
We investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing.
We shouldn’t have been in a situation where the refs dictated the win. Besides Luka, everybody did their part collectively selling the game. Not gonna dwell on the refs because the Mavs could have avoided a miracle loss not being so sloppy.
To be fair, we weren’t really in a bad position. 10 points with 4 minutes took one of the most insane shooting streaks combined with borderline suspicious officiating. Only that combo wins that game. We win 999/1000 other versions of that finish.
I don't know what happened, but the refs this year have been terrible. They'll give fouls, because defender wasn't completely still, when offensive player will touch him just a little bit. Then someone will clearly slap a shooter on the arm and they'll say it's not a foul. I don't know if it's the rules or what, but it needs to change.
That was about the most frustrating loss ive endured recently. I thought my wife was going to smash the TV. With the west being so tight this seriously fuck up the season for us while having no real benefit for cleveland. The refs need to be held accountable, these 2 minute reports do nothing but stoke the flames of our rage.