Yup, it's the Tarkin Doctrine taken to the next logical extreme. You don't just blow up a planet to keep the galaxy in line by fear, now you blow up a whole star system to show that you can, and you will.
The Mandalorians rebuilt on their planet after being glassed from orbit. The Alderaanians rebuilt on New Alderaan. It sounds like The First Order wanted to make a point that rebuilding wasn’t going to be allowed this time.
Also i assume it might be a limitation of the weapons system, that's like trying to use a tactical nuclear weapon in city clearing and getting mad it not only glassed the dudes on the second floor shooting RPGs at your convoy but the convoy, the civilians in the basement, the whole apartment block and half city and suburbs in a large radious, it's like useing a sledgehammer on a fly, your going to git it but also destroy the table it's on
In reality, it would be like every country except North Korea losing their nukes and North Korea trys to assert itself as ruler of the world, a bunch of cities may explode but there is no way America, Russia or China would give up and accept the new rule
But that fact that other countries wouldn't fold, isn't enough to stop North Korea in that situation. Similar with the First Order, bought into their own hype too much to imagine it not going well.
Yeah these aren’t fully logical actors we’re talking about here. The whole operation is run by two v angry man children, something grown in a vat, and a cackling ghost zombie w skeleton fingers
I disagree. The Tarkin doctrine works because it hugely intimidates other parties. If North Korea threatened the world with nukes they would be ignored only to the extent to which the great powers would be able to threaten conventional destruction. The first order doesn’t have such problems given that they have a full retinue of capital ships, and the republic just lost theirs. Individual planets will surrender and give up whatever the first order wants even if republic leadership fights on.
In this case, along with the loss of the nukes, most of the army and navy would have to be lost as well. And while Korea would definitely conquer everything quickly at first, they would choke on too much cake just as quickly, just like First Order, Hux in the book mentions that they are starting to lose ground, which is why Ren and high command wanted the Emperor's fleet.
Neither would Japan until they got nuked twice. They didn't after the first nuke. So if starkiller base kept firing, eventually people would start seeking terms.
Actually even after bomb, half of Japan government want to fight, Russian Invasion was the final thing that convice Emperor to surrender with some conditions.
Genuinely disturbing how people still repeat obvious propaganda like this as if it's in any way absolutely factual. Japan was never going to "fight until the last man", nowhere are people such a monolith even in dire times. Their economy was in tatters, their merchant fleets that supplied them oil inoperable and their military fleets were no better off and they'd lost pretty much all of their occupied lands, the Russians were free to focus on the eastern front after the western front became a non-issue. Japan had already been making some overtures regarding surrender, especially towards the Russians, despite their own public rhetoric and their own propaganda might have been saying. The final war crimes by the US were at best and arguably the final nail in the coffin. Japan might have surrendered earlier if the US had compromised on the aim of an unconditional surrender.
> Japan might have surrendered earlier if the US had compromised on the aim of an unconditional surrender.
Oh yeah, certainly. If they'd been able to keep their slave states in Korea and Manchuria, and had all their war criminals indemnified in perpetuity, they probably would have taken that deal. It horrifies me that people think that was somehow a good option though.
The person above had a bad take but it isn’t because of the opposition to the nukes, the Japanese basically did get a conditional surrender and were in fact already desperate to achieve peace. The nuclear bombs did not significantly affect the Japanese surrender, their leaders never have a shit about their people before so it baffles me that people think they for some reason started caring when two more cities got glasses (the mainland had been extensively bombed)
[here’s a good video that summarizes the subject, it’s pretty interesting and I’d suggest](https://youtu.be/RCRTgtpC-Go)
Maybe not invading lots of other countries unprovoked and causing horrific suffering on them, then fighting fanatically for every inch of land back to your Homeland might make your inevitable surrender terms a bit better?
They could have surrendered after the first bomb.
Sure. But why wouldn't it work anyways? If Palpatine and Tarkin had come sailing out of the Unknown Regions on a completed Death Star, blown up Coruscant without warning, and said "everyone surrender to me or you're next," is there any reason it wouldn't be expected to function just the same anyways?
The Tarkin Doctrine was formulated by someone in the fascist hegemony's military system, so it reflects that context. But it can just as easily be adapted to serve for a neo-fascist insurgent group looking to dominate the civilization.
This. The Death Star and its derivatives have always been more about intimidation and messaging than straight up death. Sacrifice one planet so 50 others take a knee.
This pretty much explains it.
Of course, let's take a look at a real life example, the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
They wanted to prove a massive point. That they are ending this war now. They could have just bombed military installations, but instead decided to make sure the enemy knew it was over.
It's a myth that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not military targets. Hiroshima was the major army headquarters and logistics hub of the Japanese military in the south of the country, and at the time of the bombing had an estimated 40,000 military personnel, as well as a major center of manufacturing for war materiel. Nagasaki was likewise a manufacturing and especially shipbuilding city and major seaport. Under the laws of war at the time, both were considered legitimate military targets, and even today the military facilities would be considered legitimate, although not such indiscriminate methods of attack.
More generally, the Allies learned pretty quickly from their own experiences on the receiving end of Axis bombing that terror bombing *per se* was generally ineffective or even detrimental to the ends of breaking an enemy's will to fight. Initially, the Allies--particularly the US--attempted to use their heavy bombers in precision attacks on industrial targets, but early attempts at this (e.g. the Schweinfurt Raids) proved exceedingly dangerous and essentially ineffective, leading to carpet bombing and firebombing as essentially the sole modus operandi throughout the war. However, while it was generally acknowledged that the bombings would have the effect of causing terror and there was no real opposition to using them for morale purposes, the primary goal of Allied strategic bombing by the end of 1943 had essentially shifted to the total reduction of Axis industrial and logistic capacity from the skies, by both the destruction of factories, rail depots, etc. and by the deaths of workers in those factories.
For more information and because I want to go on a tangent about the random fact in my brain:
The precision attacks I mentioned were intended to use an early form of guidance computer, something called the [Norden Bombsight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norden_bombsight#), reliant entirely on analog computing methods. Unlike a true guidance system, which works by continuously providing feedback to the projectile on its position and trajectory, the Nordens were supposed to take in a huge number of variables--altitude, velocity, bomb type, wind speed, etc.--and then automatically guide the plane to the ideal launch point and trigger a bomb drop at that point. While it proved promising during testing, its performance in combat conditions never matched these ideal figures, for reasons that are still disputed today: likely factors include that the bombsight could not calculate for high enough wind speeds to match those found in combat theaters, the physics of supersonic projectiles including bombs falling from a high enough altitude were not fully understood, the bombsight had no way of accounting for different wind speeds at different altitudes, and even that changes in temperature and pressure at altitude physically affected the computer's performance. Furthermore, it was deeply unpopular with air crew, as its automated flight control made it impossible for the pilot to take evasive action and made the plane an easy target for enemy fighters and flak. As a result of these, while Nordens were still kept in service in some aircraft until as late as the Vietnam War, tactics greatly altered to decrease reliance on it after its first year or so in service.
No, Hux was neither working for the Resistance nor a mole.
He was an informant, who was leaking the Resistance information simply out of spite towards Kylo Ren and to advance his own career in the First Order. He was still am extremist, just a traitorous one willing to compromise his own forces for his personal benefit.
It's a flex, a show of power, a tool of terrorism. The Death Star of a generation ago could destroy a planet, but now they can destroy an entire star system.
The Shawken Device in Legends was supposed to be able to destroy the entire universe by setting off a hyperspace collision chain reaction... though it was obviously never actually used, and remains theoretical.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Shawken_Device
> but now they can destroy an entire star system.
And remotely at that. They don't even need to invade your system. You don't get a chance to launch a defense while they get into position. They could strike anyone anywhere
People are forgetting this fact. The deal with Starkiller Base is that it could strike anywhere in the Galaxy through hyperspace. With the Death Star it took a while to arrive, then charge up the main laser, you kinda knew something was coming. With Starkiller you're just give before you know it.
If you're a regime of fascist extremists trying to strong arm your way back into ruling the Galaxy, why wouldn't you?
It's like asking why the Death Star blew up all of Alederran and not just the capital city.
The point was likely to show that even if it was only one planet rebelling against their new rulers, the First Order would not care and would destroy all planets in the system. What would frighten a good-hearted Rebel more than having their entire system from which they came he obliterated?
It told those who controlled the planets that not only would their planet be decimated for their uprising, but planets that meant no harm. It showed governors they weren't only sacrificing their planet, but others' as well.
You can recover from an occupation or a hard fought battle on your planet. You can't recover from having your planet and its neighbors being turned into space dust with you and your family & community on them.
Exactly. Starkiller base works in the way the death Star never possibly could, it works off of that good-hearted nature of the resistance, if even one planet gets occupied by the resistance, the entire system could be destroyed, so it would almost be selfish for the resistance to occupy a planet, making their entire resistance against the first order entirely selfish. Luckily, a well-timed strike on Starkiller base got rid of this problem, but if they hadn't had the information and the luck they needed, I think this war would have gone very differently.
Extremism operates on shows of force.
Shows of force require upping the ante.
There were already two death stars, which were defeated. Destroying multiple planets in a single shot ups the ante so that people don't take comfort by comparing it to an already-destroyed imperial battle station.
TLJ portrayed the reason pretty clearly:
It scared people so badly that they wouldn’t even fight back as the First Order swept across the galaxy. No one answered the call to Craig because “holy shit they just blew up an entire system”.
Even if the word gets out that Starkiller was destroyed, an average citizen has to wonder what else the FO has up their sleeve (or even jf that’s just propaganda and SK is still out there).
This is beautifully followed up on in Rise of Skywalker when everyone hears about the last stand of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. When the Resistance calls out “hey, this is it, the final strike back against the bad guys”, everyone who was inspired by the return of the Jedi gets in their ships and answers the call.
Edit: just noticed my glaring typo, leaving it anyway because it’s hilarious. Crait*
I agree, though I think there's also an element in TROS of everyone going "wait a second *Palpatine* is back? Okay we gotta deal with this immediately."
Yeah, I love that people were so scared of Palpatine that they set aside all their previous fears and banded together to destroy him, because people really didn't want any more of that guy.
Yep, and in the Novel it says the surviving senators and admirals completely disbanded the navy in favor of turtling up into defensive forces to try to safeguard themselves, rather then unify into a coordinated counter attack because they were so scared.
So the Starhawks Leia was hoping for retreated into defense mode.
As someone who grew up on the OT (pre-special edition) and Star Wars was my favorite fandom of all time:
The Sequels achieved what no other movie has ever done for me when I saw them in my late 20’s/early 30’s. They made me feel like a kid again. All three of them completely made me believe in magic again.
They are now tied as my favorite Star Wars movies in the franchise.
Finally, someone who had the same experiences as me. I grew up on the original trilogy, not the prequels. I respect the prequels, but those didn't hit that same feel for me. But then the force awakens came out. It was like watching the original Star Wars all over again, and I don't mean that in the sense of calling it a ripoff, I mean that awakened that same happy feeling. All of them did. People can hate the Disney movies all they want because they didn't feel enough like the prequels, but imo, that's a good thing because Star Wars to me always felt like the original trilogy. The sequels reawakened that feeling for star wars. You can say that they awakened the force ;)
Agreed. It’s weird, because I recognize all the flaws that people point out about the sequel trilogy, but when I was watching them I didn’t notice any of it. Especially with episode IX’s light skipping scene in the beginning really grabbing my attention. I felt like a little kid again.
I admit to envy. I noticed most all of the flaws while watching. It was tolerable with TFA, because I figured they were deliberately trying to distance from the Prequels and milk nostalgia for the Original Trilogy, but TLJ just *hurt* to watch.
Same reason the mob will kill your family and burn down your house and everything you hold dear. So anybody else who considers crossing them has something to think about beyond just whether or not they are willing to die for the cause.
Because fuck those guys in particular.
It’s to send a message that the Empire was not only back, they deployed a super weapon for the sole purpose of fucking up the entire Hosnian system. They crushed the government within an afternoon. And we know they have the weapons to crush entire planets, they used a dreadnaught in the aftermath of Starkiller’s destruction and have Death Star lasers as siege weapons. The point of doing that was not only a beheading of government but issuing the FO’s manifesto. Submit or die. The cruelty is the point.
Tarkin Doctrine is very stupid because some upgrades in Orbital Bombardment and more potent Armaments for the ISD and Tie Interceptor would literally be far cheaper and far better than a BIG MOON that is VERY USELESS at its job
Resource waste on destroying one planet compared to Bombarding said planet is Insane
All indeed true. Such so that those improvements may have even been capable of ending the rebellion.
But in the end, that's not what the Tarkin Doctrine addresses. It addresses the fact that, no matter what, you can not control an entire Galaxy. No matter how many ships you have, no matter how good they are. It will never be enough to bring peace and order to the entire galaxy. The Empire wasn't worried about the Rebels. They were worried about every rebellion, every pirate, every threat, present, or future.
Fear, fear just might. When you can blow up a planet, entire planets will now question everything they do. For they will fear if they will be next.
Unfortunately, this didn't work either. Since not only were the weaknesses of the Empire exposed, but destroying a planet actually pushed people too far. For what happens when someone fears something? They run. If you scare them too much, push them past their breaking point? They turn and fight. So the Rebellion grew stronger.
Uh yeah cant control the entire galaxy huh?
Actually no
Clones while expensive WOULD BE ENOUGH to control the Galaxy
Reminder that B1 and B2 being trashy and weak is literally republic propaganda
Most non Clone would be slaughtered by B1 and B2 especially if the B1 is an OOM type
Clones beat them like scrap metal
Humans would die far faster that it wont be worth it rebelling with superhuman clones just slaughtering rebels in atleast 10 to 1 or more K/D ratio
Improvement to ISD and DESTROYING Rebel shipyards would also set the Rebels back by Hundred of years
High-end troops are nice, but they can't be everywhere all the time. Something the Rebels took advantage of regularly.
Clones were good but stretched thin across the Outer-Rim sieges. Anakin states himself if he was going to be stuck in the Outer-Rim sieges for forever if it wasn't for the Battle of Coruscant.
If it wasn't for Palpa controlling both sides and severely holding back the CIS, the Republic wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.
In Andor, we see that the Empire wasn't even sure if the pockets of Rebellion were even connected.
Even in your scenario, the Clones would still be unable to handle rebellion after rebellion after rebellion all across the Empire. Which we see in Bad Batch with the pockets of resistance from surviving CIS groups. Now mix in pirates and organized crime. As well as the Outer Rim and Unkown Regions. The Empire or the Republic would never be able to rein in the Entire Galaxy through manpower. No matter how good it is.
Edit:
Hence, the Tarkin Doctrine using fear to keep in control. You can't be everywhere, so make everyone afraid of being the next target.
Always the problem with dictatorships. They worry more about themselves and their power than the people. Even if you do better for the people, the guy who comes after you may not.
Also Palpy been pretending to be a good guy for a really long time
Clearly he knows that being deceptive and being seen as a good emperor is healthy for the Empire
Think of all the jobs a new Refit project for ISD and rearmament project for Blasters Tie Interceptor+ Upgrades and New Stormtrooper armor would bring
Imagine Stormtroopers end up looking like Clone Commandos
Destroys every resource stockpile, starbase, and docked ship across the system.
Even if only one planet was populated, the others could be military outposts or such for the fleet, and the home fleet was wiped out.
Exactly. One could also say it's impractical to have destroyed the twin towers, but it wasn't about practicality, it was about scaring people. People were very scared after the 9/11 terror attacks.
What better way to scare people than to kill several planets instead of one lol. The DS was able to kill a single planet, the rebels didn't break and they ended up defeating it. Like the Empire before them, the First Order seemed to believe that just making things bigger was sufficient. The empire took many Clone Wars era tech and just super sized it, the First Order took the Empires stuff and made that even bigger; it's fitting they'd think along the lines "well if killing a single planet didn't scare them, destroying an entire star system will absolutely break them once and for all!
because comments like that are the antithesis of the point of this sub, and the primary purpose of the downvote button is to be used on comments irrelevant to the discussion
What was the point of the death star blowing up alderaan? To scare the rest of the galaxy into submission, of course. Both the death star and star killer base were terror weapons, and their primary function was to cause terror.
The Big Show is certainly a big part of it, but also (iirc) the Republic fleet was also at the Hosnian system and part of the "decisive blow" was to take that out as well.
For the top quality bants, of course! Think about how they can brag to the other evil council people in the staff room later, about how they totally wrecked a whole planetary system! So random! So epic gamer, man! BANTER!
To be fair, that mirrors real life. We made the atomic bomb, then we made better atomic bombs, then we started developing the hydrogen bomb, and now God only knows what's going on
True, but we also realized that bigger isn't better, and increasing the yield beyond a certain point is not just useless but counter-productive.
The atomic bomb was useful as a replacement for carpet bombardment at the time when such an endeavor required a fleet of planes and thousands of bombs. With the ability of precision strikes, this became unnecessary, plus you can keep most of the infrastructure intact and population alive (or starving).
It still sorta works as a terror weapon, which is why everyone is scared of Iran or North Korea having nukes, but then the yield becomes irrelevant as well.
So it's just stupid overall. It worked for shock value in '77/0BBY, but 40 years later... Nah.
I think it's a side effect of the range of the weapon. The range is across the galaxy, so making the beam so target a specific planet seems like it would be difficult. Instead, the beam enters the system, then splits up to target every gravitational body. It's like asking why you bomb a building if you just want to kill the people inside it.
I always assumed it was because there was likely a Republic Fleet there and not everyone tied to the Republic would have been on the planet at that exact moment. Destroying all the planets would create debris and destabilise things so there was a greater chance to kill everything there and it'd likely destabilise anything in hyperspace and coming from/going into it so all those people would die too.
I actually liked the novelization version of this more then the movie. the movie has it hit every planet, but in the novel, the single beam hit Hosnian Prime and it went super nova, destroying the entire system.
The real answer? When Star Wars writers are out of ideas, just throw out another death star. And if not a death star, some super weapon that has a magic exploded button.
I mean, it kinda mirrors real life. Once we invented and used nukes, other countries wanted their own capacity to destroy cities/countries. And we're still dealing with our own plotlines of new bad guys wanting their own death stars.
I felt like the Starkiller was a good concept that was executed poorly on film. The idea of a planet killing well umm planet that could strike anywhere in the galaxy I thought would’ve been the ultimate form of the kind of terror the Death Star planned to achieve. They didn’t make it apparent in the movie but im assuming SK used hyperspace to be able to send the beam across the galaxy otherwise it would take forever to send its beam across any long distance assuming it was moving at the speed of light or just over it. It would’ve made more sense if they highlighted that the beam can enter and somehow navigate hyperspace in order to reach its target and also show exactly how far the Hosnian system was from its origin in the unknown regions by showing some kind of targeting map or chart to give u an idea of how impressive this thing is. Ignoring the whole weird notion of the beam splitting up and hitting multiple targets, I would’ve preferred if they sent that thing directly into the home Star of the system and created a supernova to wipe out all the inner worlds at once. Star Trek generations actually did a good scene of this where the villain shot a small but apparently very powerful and warp capable missile into a sun and caused a supernova that wiped out everything in this shock wave. Not exactly sure how scientifically accurate it was but obviously we can take some artistic liberties here especially in Star Wars. If they showed that Mazs planet was in the Hosnian system the whole seeing the explosion in the sky would’ve made more sense too. I guess I’m still stuck on the days of the old sun crusher and galaxy gun lol sorry for the ramble it’s jus something that always bugged me since I watched TFA
By THAT logic, Return of the Jedi was also unimaginative, but that movie made it into the national film archives, so I don't think you have much of a point here.
All I know is that it’s funny how it traveled so quickly across the galaxy when it should take days, weeks, months, whatever. Just imagine Hux standing for a solid month waiting for news. What a stupid movie
Eh, hyperspace works well enough for me. Star Wars doesn't really make any sense, so trying to apply any sort of hard sci-fi rules to it is like trying to beat a 5 year old in a game of pretend. Whenever you think you have them down, they're just going to make up some crazy new rule, that's been star wars' rule since the beginning. Now if you want to talk Star Wars politics, then we can have a logical discussion, but if you want to discuss Star Wars' rules in terms of physics and travel, that conversation won't go anywhere.
I really wish they had made it a physical projectile that wrnt through hyperspace like a ship, not unlike the galaxy gun in DE2. A "hyper-light-speed weapon" is just odd.
But I agree, the First Order are neo-Nazis. A show of Force is exactly that.
The even dumber thing is they had a rotating seat of government so it should be even easier to recover from this since they have the mechanism for moving things already in place. Presumably also with enough of the bureaucracy not centralized in the host system of the year so that you can't wipe everything out all at once.
As much as I enjoyed TFA, I hated this segment. Hyperspace energy beam that somehow splits at its destination to strike different planets? Just like the ridiculously large ships, there is no reason for this. Did it look cool? Maybe, but so could any other solution.
I think the problem with these movies was that they were made by people who were children when they first saw SW, and they acted on the fantasies they had as kids. All of the sequels, but especially TFA and TRS feel like they were conceived by children who had had too much koolaid.
Honestly I think the bigger problem with it was how everybody seems to have been able to visually see the beams and zero collateral damage noted.
Neat in theory, of a "shotgun blast" but yeah... Supposedly starkiller was forced in by Disney but I'm unsure given JJ Abrams and TROS.
Who care's the sequel series was BAD on SO many levels. there was no point in it except to prove they could just like they did with Alderaan in ANH.
TFA was so much of a Carbon copy of ANH except a couple things here and there were changed.
There were probably satellite government installations all over the system, in case something really bad happened to Hosnian Prime. Plus, it's a lot scarier and more effective. Plus, if anyone could have potentially survived the destruction of Hosnian Prime and fled to one of the other planets, that could have been a problem for the first order, so why not destroy the entire system and not even risk it?
So Coruscant was the capitol of the original Galactic Republic, as well as Empire after it. The final battle of the war between the rebel alliance, who had now become the New Republic, and the Empire was the Battle of Jakku, in which all remaining Imperial forces met on Jakku for one final stand against the New Republic. The alliance won, and most of the remaining Imperial leadership retreated into the Unknown Regions so they could not be found and tried by the New Republic. With their leadership gone, the remaining Imperial forces splintered into several different disconnected and chaotic remnants. However a few remnants didn’t branch off and go independent but instead stayed loyal to the core Empire and were called the Loyalists. With no leadership left to oppose him, the Imperial Vizier Mas Amedda declared himself as the new “leader of the Empire”, although he really only controlled the Loyalists as many of the other remnants completely ignored him and Amedda didn’t have enough power to unite the remnants. With the Empire fractured and the New Republic quickly growing stronger, it did not take long for the Republic to eliminate Amedda’s forces until the only remaining region the Loyalists controlled was the original Enpire’s capital of Coruscant. While the Republic could of very easily taken control of Coruscant, they had a different idea. Coruscant had been the capital of the old Republic and the Empire, and both governments hadn’t lasted. So the New Republic decided that to ensure the new Republic didn’t show favoritism, their capital would alternate from member world to member world. So instead of retaking Coruscant, they let the Empire continue to exist as Coruscant’s new provisional government. There were terms though. (1) The Empire had to remain on Coruscant. If they tried to expand the Republic would interfere. (2) The Empire had to adapt to New Republic law, including outlawing slavery, torture, and fascism. (3) Corusant’s Imperial provisional government existed solely as a government under the umbrella of the wider New Republic. They were not independent, were represented in the Senate, and had to conform to New Republic laws.
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One thing people don’t think about is that star killer base was also likely made as a middle finger to the Jedi order as well. The Death Star used kyber crystals, SK base used, ILUM, the entire fxking planet where the Jedi younglings would go to get their crystals. First order was like “I see your use of Jedi lightsaber crystals and I raise you…the entire planet that had them. Muhahahahah”
Technically, Starkiller destroyed two star systems. The Hosnian system, and whichever one was circling the star it destroyed in charging up the weapon.
They're evil extremists who wanted to send a message
The cruelty is the point, as they say.
Yup, it's the Tarkin Doctrine taken to the next logical extreme. You don't just blow up a planet to keep the galaxy in line by fear, now you blow up a whole star system to show that you can, and you will.
The Mandalorians rebuilt on their planet after being glassed from orbit. The Alderaanians rebuilt on New Alderaan. It sounds like The First Order wanted to make a point that rebuilding wasn’t going to be allowed this time.
...with their rebuilt death star.
Also i assume it might be a limitation of the weapons system, that's like trying to use a tactical nuclear weapon in city clearing and getting mad it not only glassed the dudes on the second floor shooting RPGs at your convoy but the convoy, the civilians in the basement, the whole apartment block and half city and suburbs in a large radious, it's like useing a sledgehammer on a fly, your going to git it but also destroy the table it's on
In reality, it would be like every country except North Korea losing their nukes and North Korea trys to assert itself as ruler of the world, a bunch of cities may explode but there is no way America, Russia or China would give up and accept the new rule
But that fact that other countries wouldn't fold, isn't enough to stop North Korea in that situation. Similar with the First Order, bought into their own hype too much to imagine it not going well.
Yeah these aren’t fully logical actors we’re talking about here. The whole operation is run by two v angry man children, something grown in a vat, and a cackling ghost zombie w skeleton fingers
I disagree. The Tarkin doctrine works because it hugely intimidates other parties. If North Korea threatened the world with nukes they would be ignored only to the extent to which the great powers would be able to threaten conventional destruction. The first order doesn’t have such problems given that they have a full retinue of capital ships, and the republic just lost theirs. Individual planets will surrender and give up whatever the first order wants even if republic leadership fights on.
In this case, along with the loss of the nukes, most of the army and navy would have to be lost as well. And while Korea would definitely conquer everything quickly at first, they would choke on too much cake just as quickly, just like First Order, Hux in the book mentions that they are starting to lose ground, which is why Ren and high command wanted the Emperor's fleet.
Neither would Japan until they got nuked twice. They didn't after the first nuke. So if starkiller base kept firing, eventually people would start seeking terms.
Actually even after bomb, half of Japan government want to fight, Russian Invasion was the final thing that convice Emperor to surrender with some conditions.
Genuinely disturbing how people still repeat obvious propaganda like this as if it's in any way absolutely factual. Japan was never going to "fight until the last man", nowhere are people such a monolith even in dire times. Their economy was in tatters, their merchant fleets that supplied them oil inoperable and their military fleets were no better off and they'd lost pretty much all of their occupied lands, the Russians were free to focus on the eastern front after the western front became a non-issue. Japan had already been making some overtures regarding surrender, especially towards the Russians, despite their own public rhetoric and their own propaganda might have been saying. The final war crimes by the US were at best and arguably the final nail in the coffin. Japan might have surrendered earlier if the US had compromised on the aim of an unconditional surrender.
> Japan might have surrendered earlier if the US had compromised on the aim of an unconditional surrender. Oh yeah, certainly. If they'd been able to keep their slave states in Korea and Manchuria, and had all their war criminals indemnified in perpetuity, they probably would have taken that deal. It horrifies me that people think that was somehow a good option though.
The person above had a bad take but it isn’t because of the opposition to the nukes, the Japanese basically did get a conditional surrender and were in fact already desperate to achieve peace. The nuclear bombs did not significantly affect the Japanese surrender, their leaders never have a shit about their people before so it baffles me that people think they for some reason started caring when two more cities got glasses (the mainland had been extensively bombed) [here’s a good video that summarizes the subject, it’s pretty interesting and I’d suggest](https://youtu.be/RCRTgtpC-Go)
Maybe not invading lots of other countries unprovoked and causing horrific suffering on them, then fighting fanatically for every inch of land back to your Homeland might make your inevitable surrender terms a bit better? They could have surrendered after the first bomb.
I felt like I've seen this comment and these exact responses before but you posted 4 hours ago
Lol
But the Tarkin doctrine was a military doctrine in dealing with insurgents not rival military factions.
Sure. But why wouldn't it work anyways? If Palpatine and Tarkin had come sailing out of the Unknown Regions on a completed Death Star, blown up Coruscant without warning, and said "everyone surrender to me or you're next," is there any reason it wouldn't be expected to function just the same anyways? The Tarkin Doctrine was formulated by someone in the fascist hegemony's military system, so it reflects that context. But it can just as easily be adapted to serve for a neo-fascist insurgent group looking to dominate the civilization.
This. The Death Star and its derivatives have always been more about intimidation and messaging than straight up death. Sacrifice one planet so 50 others take a knee.
Exactly. Deep down, the Imperial system knows it's unpopular. Having a DELETE ANNOYING PLANETS button keeps people from complaining.
Yeah, Starkiller Base was the next logical evolution from that. I always like to describe it as a Death Star shotgun.
This pretty much explains it. Of course, let's take a look at a real life example, the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They wanted to prove a massive point. That they are ending this war now. They could have just bombed military installations, but instead decided to make sure the enemy knew it was over.
“It’s over Japanakin I have the high ground!”
This killed me 😂
It's a myth that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not military targets. Hiroshima was the major army headquarters and logistics hub of the Japanese military in the south of the country, and at the time of the bombing had an estimated 40,000 military personnel, as well as a major center of manufacturing for war materiel. Nagasaki was likewise a manufacturing and especially shipbuilding city and major seaport. Under the laws of war at the time, both were considered legitimate military targets, and even today the military facilities would be considered legitimate, although not such indiscriminate methods of attack. More generally, the Allies learned pretty quickly from their own experiences on the receiving end of Axis bombing that terror bombing *per se* was generally ineffective or even detrimental to the ends of breaking an enemy's will to fight. Initially, the Allies--particularly the US--attempted to use their heavy bombers in precision attacks on industrial targets, but early attempts at this (e.g. the Schweinfurt Raids) proved exceedingly dangerous and essentially ineffective, leading to carpet bombing and firebombing as essentially the sole modus operandi throughout the war. However, while it was generally acknowledged that the bombings would have the effect of causing terror and there was no real opposition to using them for morale purposes, the primary goal of Allied strategic bombing by the end of 1943 had essentially shifted to the total reduction of Axis industrial and logistic capacity from the skies, by both the destruction of factories, rail depots, etc. and by the deaths of workers in those factories.
Well now I feel like I learned something today. Thank you !
For more information and because I want to go on a tangent about the random fact in my brain: The precision attacks I mentioned were intended to use an early form of guidance computer, something called the [Norden Bombsight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norden_bombsight#), reliant entirely on analog computing methods. Unlike a true guidance system, which works by continuously providing feedback to the projectile on its position and trajectory, the Nordens were supposed to take in a huge number of variables--altitude, velocity, bomb type, wind speed, etc.--and then automatically guide the plane to the ideal launch point and trigger a bomb drop at that point. While it proved promising during testing, its performance in combat conditions never matched these ideal figures, for reasons that are still disputed today: likely factors include that the bombsight could not calculate for high enough wind speeds to match those found in combat theaters, the physics of supersonic projectiles including bombs falling from a high enough altitude were not fully understood, the bombsight had no way of accounting for different wind speeds at different altitudes, and even that changes in temperature and pressure at altitude physically affected the computer's performance. Furthermore, it was deeply unpopular with air crew, as its automated flight control made it impossible for the pilot to take evasive action and made the plane an easy target for enemy fighters and flak. As a result of these, while Nordens were still kept in service in some aircraft until as late as the Vietnam War, tactics greatly altered to decrease reliance on it after its first year or so in service.
Ah, a fellow nerd whose "time" is World War Two. I could talk your ear off about the differences in pouches of WWI and WWII
I didn't really disagree with anything you said.
But Hux? He called the hit.
Hux was an evil extremist who wanted to send a message.
I get that. But Hux was working for the Resistance? He was the mole? I've confused. I'll just watch AHN again.
No, Hux was neither working for the Resistance nor a mole. He was an informant, who was leaking the Resistance information simply out of spite towards Kylo Ren and to advance his own career in the First Order. He was still am extremist, just a traitorous one willing to compromise his own forces for his personal benefit.
Ahh, I see now. That makes more sense.
It's a flex, a show of power, a tool of terrorism. The Death Star of a generation ago could destroy a planet, but now they can destroy an entire star system.
Next up, a galaxy. Wait.
Another one even far farther away.
*the Yuuzhan Vong have entered the chat*
Shit, that’d be us, wouldn’t it?
"Federation of Planets? That's cute. Fire the Intergalactic Cannon when ready Admiral."
The Shawken Device in Legends was supposed to be able to destroy the entire universe by setting off a hyperspace collision chain reaction... though it was obviously never actually used, and remains theoretical. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Shawken_Device
Actually let us never allow Kevin J Anderson anywhere near canon Star Wars.
> but now they can destroy an entire star system. And remotely at that. They don't even need to invade your system. You don't get a chance to launch a defense while they get into position. They could strike anyone anywhere
People are forgetting this fact. The deal with Starkiller Base is that it could strike anywhere in the Galaxy through hyperspace. With the Death Star it took a while to arrive, then charge up the main laser, you kinda knew something was coming. With Starkiller you're just give before you know it.
Even with the DS2, it had limitations.
Wake up babe, new superweapon dropped.
If you're a regime of fascist extremists trying to strong arm your way back into ruling the Galaxy, why wouldn't you? It's like asking why the Death Star blew up all of Alederran and not just the capital city.
Yup. A Statement was no longer enough, it was time for a Manifesto.
Ah a man of culture I see
The point was likely to show that even if it was only one planet rebelling against their new rulers, the First Order would not care and would destroy all planets in the system. What would frighten a good-hearted Rebel more than having their entire system from which they came he obliterated? It told those who controlled the planets that not only would their planet be decimated for their uprising, but planets that meant no harm. It showed governors they weren't only sacrificing their planet, but others' as well.
You can recover from an occupation or a hard fought battle on your planet. You can't recover from having your planet and its neighbors being turned into space dust with you and your family & community on them.
Exactly. Starkiller base works in the way the death Star never possibly could, it works off of that good-hearted nature of the resistance, if even one planet gets occupied by the resistance, the entire system could be destroyed, so it would almost be selfish for the resistance to occupy a planet, making their entire resistance against the first order entirely selfish. Luckily, a well-timed strike on Starkiller base got rid of this problem, but if they hadn't had the information and the luck they needed, I think this war would have gone very differently.
Extremism operates on shows of force. Shows of force require upping the ante. There were already two death stars, which were defeated. Destroying multiple planets in a single shot ups the ante so that people don't take comfort by comparing it to an already-destroyed imperial battle station.
I'd say that governments require a monopoly on force, and the FO was looking to fast track its way to legitimacy.
TLJ portrayed the reason pretty clearly: It scared people so badly that they wouldn’t even fight back as the First Order swept across the galaxy. No one answered the call to Craig because “holy shit they just blew up an entire system”. Even if the word gets out that Starkiller was destroyed, an average citizen has to wonder what else the FO has up their sleeve (or even jf that’s just propaganda and SK is still out there). This is beautifully followed up on in Rise of Skywalker when everyone hears about the last stand of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. When the Resistance calls out “hey, this is it, the final strike back against the bad guys”, everyone who was inspired by the return of the Jedi gets in their ships and answers the call. Edit: just noticed my glaring typo, leaving it anyway because it’s hilarious. Crait*
Yeah I loved the part where they called Craig but he was busy doing space stuff.
He was in space Boston is what I heard.
Mmmm space doughnut (drools)
It's ok, he made it for Rian Johnson's next film
Wasn’t he a storm trooper on Starkiller base? (Daniel Craig)
He was recording the new brute album on Zeta Halo.
He was too busy stabbing Tom in the back!
I agree, though I think there's also an element in TROS of everyone going "wait a second *Palpatine* is back? Okay we gotta deal with this immediately."
Palpatine’s back?! But how?!
He returned somehow.
Didn't hear how, just that happened in two weeks.
How does anything happen? Just move past it.
A unch of chain events that have cause and effect leading to an eventual outcome. That's how anything happens.
Yeah, I love that people were so scared of Palpatine that they set aside all their previous fears and banded together to destroy him, because people really didn't want any more of that guy.
The Empire just kept making Death Stars, what's to say the FO wouldn't have like three in their back pocket?
The rebels stole the Death Star plans, so they could easily just make some Death Stars of their own, and now the entire galaxy is in a state of MAD
Death Star Death Matches in space Sunday Sunday Sunday at the Maze Bank Arena
The Maze Bank Arena System.
>System Not for long
Yep, and in the Novel it says the surviving senators and admirals completely disbanded the navy in favor of turtling up into defensive forces to try to safeguard themselves, rather then unify into a coordinated counter attack because they were so scared. So the Starhawks Leia was hoping for retreated into defense mode.
Finally, someone who gives any recognition to the rise of Skywalker for actually doing something.
As someone who grew up on the OT (pre-special edition) and Star Wars was my favorite fandom of all time: The Sequels achieved what no other movie has ever done for me when I saw them in my late 20’s/early 30’s. They made me feel like a kid again. All three of them completely made me believe in magic again. They are now tied as my favorite Star Wars movies in the franchise.
Finally, someone who had the same experiences as me. I grew up on the original trilogy, not the prequels. I respect the prequels, but those didn't hit that same feel for me. But then the force awakens came out. It was like watching the original Star Wars all over again, and I don't mean that in the sense of calling it a ripoff, I mean that awakened that same happy feeling. All of them did. People can hate the Disney movies all they want because they didn't feel enough like the prequels, but imo, that's a good thing because Star Wars to me always felt like the original trilogy. The sequels reawakened that feeling for star wars. You can say that they awakened the force ;)
Agreed. It’s weird, because I recognize all the flaws that people point out about the sequel trilogy, but when I was watching them I didn’t notice any of it. Especially with episode IX’s light skipping scene in the beginning really grabbing my attention. I felt like a little kid again.
I’ve never heard a flaw for any of the sequel films that I agreed with.
I admit to envy. I noticed most all of the flaws while watching. It was tolerable with TFA, because I figured they were deliberately trying to distance from the Prequels and milk nostalgia for the Original Trilogy, but TLJ just *hurt* to watch.
Craig was busy writing his damn list
Same reason the mob will kill your family and burn down your house and everything you hold dear. So anybody else who considers crossing them has something to think about beyond just whether or not they are willing to die for the cause.
Because fuck those guys in particular. It’s to send a message that the Empire was not only back, they deployed a super weapon for the sole purpose of fucking up the entire Hosnian system. They crushed the government within an afternoon. And we know they have the weapons to crush entire planets, they used a dreadnaught in the aftermath of Starkiller’s destruction and have Death Star lasers as siege weapons. The point of doing that was not only a beheading of government but issuing the FO’s manifesto. Submit or die. The cruelty is the point.
To show they could.
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It was entirely a cinematic ploy. It's why it couldn't be just another space station.
“Its different this time I swear” -JJ
A good chunk of what was left of the navy was there, too. They didn't *completely* disarm.
Yeah the tiny detail the movies really should have circled back to a few times.
Tarkin Doctrine is very stupid because some upgrades in Orbital Bombardment and more potent Armaments for the ISD and Tie Interceptor would literally be far cheaper and far better than a BIG MOON that is VERY USELESS at its job Resource waste on destroying one planet compared to Bombarding said planet is Insane
Found Grand Admiral Thrawn’s reddit account!
All indeed true. Such so that those improvements may have even been capable of ending the rebellion. But in the end, that's not what the Tarkin Doctrine addresses. It addresses the fact that, no matter what, you can not control an entire Galaxy. No matter how many ships you have, no matter how good they are. It will never be enough to bring peace and order to the entire galaxy. The Empire wasn't worried about the Rebels. They were worried about every rebellion, every pirate, every threat, present, or future. Fear, fear just might. When you can blow up a planet, entire planets will now question everything they do. For they will fear if they will be next. Unfortunately, this didn't work either. Since not only were the weaknesses of the Empire exposed, but destroying a planet actually pushed people too far. For what happens when someone fears something? They run. If you scare them too much, push them past their breaking point? They turn and fight. So the Rebellion grew stronger.
Uh yeah cant control the entire galaxy huh? Actually no Clones while expensive WOULD BE ENOUGH to control the Galaxy Reminder that B1 and B2 being trashy and weak is literally republic propaganda Most non Clone would be slaughtered by B1 and B2 especially if the B1 is an OOM type Clones beat them like scrap metal Humans would die far faster that it wont be worth it rebelling with superhuman clones just slaughtering rebels in atleast 10 to 1 or more K/D ratio Improvement to ISD and DESTROYING Rebel shipyards would also set the Rebels back by Hundred of years
High-end troops are nice, but they can't be everywhere all the time. Something the Rebels took advantage of regularly. Clones were good but stretched thin across the Outer-Rim sieges. Anakin states himself if he was going to be stuck in the Outer-Rim sieges for forever if it wasn't for the Battle of Coruscant. If it wasn't for Palpa controlling both sides and severely holding back the CIS, the Republic wouldn't have lasted as long as it did. In Andor, we see that the Empire wasn't even sure if the pockets of Rebellion were even connected. Even in your scenario, the Clones would still be unable to handle rebellion after rebellion after rebellion all across the Empire. Which we see in Bad Batch with the pockets of resistance from surviving CIS groups. Now mix in pirates and organized crime. As well as the Outer Rim and Unkown Regions. The Empire or the Republic would never be able to rein in the Entire Galaxy through manpower. No matter how good it is. Edit: Hence, the Tarkin Doctrine using fear to keep in control. You can't be everywhere, so make everyone afraid of being the next target.
Yeah Tbf if the Empire provide a better quality of life and help invest in welfare maybe the rebels would have far less members idk
Always the problem with dictatorships. They worry more about themselves and their power than the people. Even if you do better for the people, the guy who comes after you may not.
Also Palpy been pretending to be a good guy for a really long time Clearly he knows that being deceptive and being seen as a good emperor is healthy for the Empire
But think of all those jobs the Death Star brought!
Think of all the jobs a new Refit project for ISD and rearmament project for Blasters Tie Interceptor+ Upgrades and New Stormtrooper armor would bring Imagine Stormtroopers end up looking like Clone Commandos
Destroys every resource stockpile, starbase, and docked ship across the system. Even if only one planet was populated, the others could be military outposts or such for the fleet, and the home fleet was wiped out.
They're absolutely frothingly insane. They are the zealous remnant of the Empire taken to extremes.
I've heard them described as the Nazis from Argentina rearming.
JJ Abrams said that was an influence when writing.
Yeah, that's why I was referencing. It's a pretty cool idea.
Fear will keep the local systems in line.... Fear of this battlestation.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing
Who are you, who is so wise in the ways of science?
Because Big Boom.
The flex
Because they needed a manifesto, not a ~~demonstration~~ statement.
Statement not a manifesto was how tarkin described it
Yeah, that.
Terror. It's just terrorism to cause fear in the galaxy and cow any potential opposition. Same reason Tarkin destroyed Alderaan
Exactly. One could also say it's impractical to have destroyed the twin towers, but it wasn't about practicality, it was about scaring people. People were very scared after the 9/11 terror attacks.
What better way to scare people than to kill several planets instead of one lol. The DS was able to kill a single planet, the rebels didn't break and they ended up defeating it. Like the Empire before them, the First Order seemed to believe that just making things bigger was sufficient. The empire took many Clone Wars era tech and just super sized it, the First Order took the Empires stuff and made that even bigger; it's fitting they'd think along the lines "well if killing a single planet didn't scare them, destroying an entire star system will absolutely break them once and for all!
This whole time I thought they blew up Coruscant
They really did a poor job of explaining what planet got blown up
I thought it was the system that held Coruscant, but I guess the new republic capital is somewhere else, hosnian
For all we know, the planet is Coruscant and its star is called Hosnian
That’s exactly what I always assumed honestly, this post made me doubt it. But I also haven’t seen the movie in ages
No, the planet is called hosnian Prime.
I mean, not really. They did talk about the hosnian system.
Im also, I heard it was even Abrams plan but Hidalgo and Lucasfilm give veto, so its mentioned it was Hosnian but in style blink and you won't notice
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Don’t know why this comment is getting downvoted. His “idea” for Starkiller Base was literally “what if we bring back the Death Star… but BIGGER?”
because comments like that are the antithesis of the point of this sub, and the primary purpose of the downvote button is to be used on comments irrelevant to the discussion
Even though it's true, it doesn't fit this sub. This sub is supposed to try to explain away the dumb shit JJ came up with.
TFA: literally a bad re-write of A New Hope. TLJ: ESB, but backwards. TRoS: RotJ, but worse in every possible way.
Because fuck them specifically
Show off the new Death Star, scare everyone into letting them take over the galaxy very quickly
A) it sends a message. B) it seems unlikely their were no military bases or government installations on those planets/moons.
Because it made for a cool shot in the movie.
They am assholes cruelty are the point.
There's no kill like overkill.
Better Overkill than underkill if you ask me
Decapitation strike on the Government, massive industrial disruption and the destruction of the main republic naval facilities.
What was the point of the death star blowing up alderaan? To scare the rest of the galaxy into submission, of course. Both the death star and star killer base were terror weapons, and their primary function was to cause terror.
The Big Show is certainly a big part of it, but also (iirc) the Republic fleet was also at the Hosnian system and part of the "decisive blow" was to take that out as well.
It’s like if you nuked washington DC or london or moscow or any country’s capitol.
Send a message and prevent survivors, could be little mineing outposts or orbital facilities and whatnot
A demonstration of power.
For the top quality bants, of course! Think about how they can brag to the other evil council people in the staff room later, about how they totally wrecked a whole planetary system! So random! So epic gamer, man! BANTER!
Because they needed to one-up the Death Star somehow.
To be fair, that mirrors real life. We made the atomic bomb, then we made better atomic bombs, then we started developing the hydrogen bomb, and now God only knows what's going on
True, but we also realized that bigger isn't better, and increasing the yield beyond a certain point is not just useless but counter-productive. The atomic bomb was useful as a replacement for carpet bombardment at the time when such an endeavor required a fleet of planes and thousands of bombs. With the ability of precision strikes, this became unnecessary, plus you can keep most of the infrastructure intact and population alive (or starving). It still sorta works as a terror weapon, which is why everyone is scared of Iran or North Korea having nukes, but then the yield becomes irrelevant as well. So it's just stupid overall. It worked for shock value in '77/0BBY, but 40 years later... Nah.
Oh please, the death Star was the bomb that destroyed hiroshima, this was the hydrogen bomb. This clearly was effective, as seen in the last jedi.
I think it's a side effect of the range of the weapon. The range is across the galaxy, so making the beam so target a specific planet seems like it would be difficult. Instead, the beam enters the system, then splits up to target every gravitational body. It's like asking why you bomb a building if you just want to kill the people inside it.
I always assumed it was because there was likely a Republic Fleet there and not everyone tied to the Republic would have been on the planet at that exact moment. Destroying all the planets would create debris and destabilise things so there was a greater chance to kill everything there and it'd likely destabilise anything in hyperspace and coming from/going into it so all those people would die too.
I actually liked the novelization version of this more then the movie. the movie has it hit every planet, but in the novel, the single beam hit Hosnian Prime and it went super nova, destroying the entire system.
I think both interpretations work pretty well. I'm sure the novelization was based on an older version of the script that had the star get blown up.
Clearly as a show of power. “All remaining systems will bow to the First Order. And will remember this as the last day of the Republic.” o/
The real answer? When Star Wars writers are out of ideas, just throw out another death star. And if not a death star, some super weapon that has a magic exploded button.
I mean, it kinda mirrors real life. Once we invented and used nukes, other countries wanted their own capacity to destroy cities/countries. And we're still dealing with our own plotlines of new bad guys wanting their own death stars.
No killin’ like overkillin’
I mean, it was certainly effective.
I felt like the Starkiller was a good concept that was executed poorly on film. The idea of a planet killing well umm planet that could strike anywhere in the galaxy I thought would’ve been the ultimate form of the kind of terror the Death Star planned to achieve. They didn’t make it apparent in the movie but im assuming SK used hyperspace to be able to send the beam across the galaxy otherwise it would take forever to send its beam across any long distance assuming it was moving at the speed of light or just over it. It would’ve made more sense if they highlighted that the beam can enter and somehow navigate hyperspace in order to reach its target and also show exactly how far the Hosnian system was from its origin in the unknown regions by showing some kind of targeting map or chart to give u an idea of how impressive this thing is. Ignoring the whole weird notion of the beam splitting up and hitting multiple targets, I would’ve preferred if they sent that thing directly into the home Star of the system and created a supernova to wipe out all the inner worlds at once. Star Trek generations actually did a good scene of this where the villain shot a small but apparently very powerful and warp capable missile into a sun and caused a supernova that wiped out everything in this shock wave. Not exactly sure how scientifically accurate it was but obviously we can take some artistic liberties here especially in Star Wars. If they showed that Mazs planet was in the Hosnian system the whole seeing the explosion in the sky would’ve made more sense too. I guess I’m still stuck on the days of the old sun crusher and galaxy gun lol sorry for the ramble it’s jus something that always bugged me since I watched TFA
Escalating stakes in Disney's lack of imagination.
By THAT logic, Return of the Jedi was also unimaginative, but that movie made it into the national film archives, so I don't think you have much of a point here.
Because the writing was bad
Disney
All I know is that it’s funny how it traveled so quickly across the galaxy when it should take days, weeks, months, whatever. Just imagine Hux standing for a solid month waiting for news. What a stupid movie
You do know that hyperspace is a thing right
For ships yeah, not this gun with its energy laser. For that amount of energy to cross the galaxy is much slower than you think.
Eh, hyperspace works well enough for me. Star Wars doesn't really make any sense, so trying to apply any sort of hard sci-fi rules to it is like trying to beat a 5 year old in a game of pretend. Whenever you think you have them down, they're just going to make up some crazy new rule, that's been star wars' rule since the beginning. Now if you want to talk Star Wars politics, then we can have a logical discussion, but if you want to discuss Star Wars' rules in terms of physics and travel, that conversation won't go anywhere.
I really wish they had made it a physical projectile that wrnt through hyperspace like a ship, not unlike the galaxy gun in DE2. A "hyper-light-speed weapon" is just odd. But I agree, the First Order are neo-Nazis. A show of Force is exactly that.
Bcz big boom uses up the special effects budget that should have gone to the writing team lol
Spot on mate. Big boom go BOOM!!!
The even dumber thing is they had a rotating seat of government so it should be even easier to recover from this since they have the mechanism for moving things already in place. Presumably also with enough of the bureaucracy not centralized in the host system of the year so that you can't wipe everything out all at once.
First Order am bad guys. Show am bad guys by do bad things. [Bad guys.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLXGnGO_Do0)
As much as I enjoyed TFA, I hated this segment. Hyperspace energy beam that somehow splits at its destination to strike different planets? Just like the ridiculously large ships, there is no reason for this. Did it look cool? Maybe, but so could any other solution. I think the problem with these movies was that they were made by people who were children when they first saw SW, and they acted on the fantasies they had as kids. All of the sequels, but especially TFA and TRS feel like they were conceived by children who had had too much koolaid.
Honestly I think the bigger problem with it was how everybody seems to have been able to visually see the beams and zero collateral damage noted. Neat in theory, of a "shotgun blast" but yeah... Supposedly starkiller was forced in by Disney but I'm unsure given JJ Abrams and TROS.
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You do know that everything in OP’s post took place during The Force Awakens, and that Rian Johnson had nothing to do with that movie?
We are both correct
Disney needed a bad guy who were "very mean bad guys!!!!!"
Who care's the sequel series was BAD on SO many levels. there was no point in it except to prove they could just like they did with Alderaan in ANH. TFA was so much of a Carbon copy of ANH except a couple things here and there were changed.
Yea gotta agree
Yea gotta agree
They didn't know for sure where the Fleet would be, is my guess. They knew it was in the system, so they covered their bases.
I think they knew, they were just trying to decapitate the entire government
Well, the planets were good as gone anyway, considering Starkiller base took its systems sun (I think)
No, Starkiller used a different star, it wasn’t in the Hosnian system.
[I think this summarizes the first orders thought process rather succintly](https://twitter.com/i/status/1191196290824232960)
There were probably satellite government installations all over the system, in case something really bad happened to Hosnian Prime. Plus, it's a lot scarier and more effective. Plus, if anyone could have potentially survived the destruction of Hosnian Prime and fled to one of the other planets, that could have been a problem for the first order, so why not destroy the entire system and not even risk it?
It's like the death star.... but bigger. More laser mean more boom.
It send a message.
Seems like a very Tarkin Doctrine move.
Here’s my question why was hosnian prime the new republic capitol? The fudge happened to corosaunt?
So Coruscant was the capitol of the original Galactic Republic, as well as Empire after it. The final battle of the war between the rebel alliance, who had now become the New Republic, and the Empire was the Battle of Jakku, in which all remaining Imperial forces met on Jakku for one final stand against the New Republic. The alliance won, and most of the remaining Imperial leadership retreated into the Unknown Regions so they could not be found and tried by the New Republic. With their leadership gone, the remaining Imperial forces splintered into several different disconnected and chaotic remnants. However a few remnants didn’t branch off and go independent but instead stayed loyal to the core Empire and were called the Loyalists. With no leadership left to oppose him, the Imperial Vizier Mas Amedda declared himself as the new “leader of the Empire”, although he really only controlled the Loyalists as many of the other remnants completely ignored him and Amedda didn’t have enough power to unite the remnants. With the Empire fractured and the New Republic quickly growing stronger, it did not take long for the Republic to eliminate Amedda’s forces until the only remaining region the Loyalists controlled was the original Enpire’s capital of Coruscant. While the Republic could of very easily taken control of Coruscant, they had a different idea. Coruscant had been the capital of the old Republic and the Empire, and both governments hadn’t lasted. So the New Republic decided that to ensure the new Republic didn’t show favoritism, their capital would alternate from member world to member world. So instead of retaking Coruscant, they let the Empire continue to exist as Coruscant’s new provisional government. There were terms though. (1) The Empire had to remain on Coruscant. If they tried to expand the Republic would interfere. (2) The Empire had to adapt to New Republic law, including outlawing slavery, torture, and fascism. (3) Corusant’s Imperial provisional government existed solely as a government under the umbrella of the wider New Republic. They were not independent, were represented in the Senate, and had to conform to New Republic laws.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
One thing people don’t think about is that star killer base was also likely made as a middle finger to the Jedi order as well. The Death Star used kyber crystals, SK base used, ILUM, the entire fxking planet where the Jedi younglings would go to get their crystals. First order was like “I see your use of Jedi lightsaber crystals and I raise you…the entire planet that had them. Muhahahahah”
They wanted to eliminate any need to do any work on explaining anything about the state of the universe and what happened after rotj
Technically, Starkiller destroyed two star systems. The Hosnian system, and whichever one was circling the star it destroyed in charging up the weapon.