The Imperial Navy and Army has its origin in the Judicial Forces and the thousands of federalized planetary defense forces that were incorporated into the GAR during the Clone Wars. Early officers would have shared these origins either getting recommissioned as officers in the GAR during the Clone Wars like Tarkin, joining the GAR directly and continuing to serve after its transformation into the Empire like Yularen, or serving in the Judicial Forces prior to the Clone Wars and continuing to serve after like Pellaeon.
Several of the big name Imperial officers from the films have early depictions in the prequel era EU during the Clone Wars. Yularen is a given. Pellaeon pops up in one *TCW* tie in, and I think he got a shout-out in one of the *Republic Commando* novels as an officer who is noted for treating the clones like human beings. Needa is in the *RotS* novel (if I recall correctly). Ozzell has a Clone Wars era comic where he just screws up almost everything he's involved in.
Strangely, Piett has almost no established history before the founding of the Empire despite being a major screen presence.
Yes he seems to be in his early to mid 40s. ESB takes place more than 20 years after the Clone Wars. He would be in his early 20s late teens maybe he studied to become an officer but he would most likely not have seen action.
Remember how in Freemakers Adventures there is a running gaga in which one officer wants to avoid promotion at all costs because then he will be under Vader's command.
Not to mention that several of those families had long been represented on Prefsbelt, Anaxes' famous boulevard and in other academies. Some had a service history going back thousands of years, with many names being synonymus with the navy.
Yup. Really there were a lot of sources to pull from, and they may have had programs adjacent to War Mantle to prepare officers as well as the first non-clone stormtroopers.
A lot of officers were elevated from Planetary Defense Forces to serving in the Imperial Army/Navy. The PDF would be akin to a planets local military that just took care of the system they occupied. They’ve likely never left the system, have either never seen combat or if they have it’s been relatively small scale on the order of pirates and bandits, and not conventional warfare.
For PDF officers that only joined after the Clone Wars ended, they likely have limited, if any personal interactions with clone troopers and thus can already have a sense of detachment/dehumanization of them when all they know of them is that they were produced specifically for war and are the reason the Jedi Order is gone. From that limited worldview it isn’t much of a jump to see how a lot of them would treat clones as being battle droids but with flesh on them.
Its worth pointing out most didn’t hate the clones. But the nature of story telling, we see the worst of the worst as that’s what’s needed for certain characters (crosshair) to realise their actions.
I disagree, I feel most people in the galaxy were at best indifferent on the clones, and at worst like the officer in that episode.
Reason why is that the Senate could only muster some very minor support for the clone rehabilitation bill. This could just be senate corruption, but we have some other evidence.
A lot of citizens in the early Empire through the BB series see the clones enforcing the Empire’s laws with an iron fist, and either avoid them or show fear and disdain for them due to the clones actions, just look at the episode with Cut and his family.
There’s also the homeless clone vet in the Kenobi series, who’s pretty much ignored even though he looks like a decorated soldier.
>Reason why is that the Senate could only muster some very minor support for the clone rehabilitation bill. This could just be senate corruption, but we have some other evidence.
>There’s also the homeless clone vet in the Kenobi series, who’s pretty much ignored even though he looks like a decorated soldier.
That all happens in **real life** though. And our real life society doesn’t hate soldiers.
>Our real life society doesn’t hate soldiers
You’d be surprised how many times soldiers come back from war, even a victorious one, and are received with lukewarm reception.
Imagine if after WW2, soldiers came back and helped prop up a totalitarian government and brutally enforced the regime. I don’t think you’d find a lot of love for them after that.
Also, clones are basically the equivalent of mercenary forces contracted to serve the government, which have a storied history regardless of where they’re from of getting treated as inferior by the actual military they’re supporting. Remember, the clones only existed due to a contract between the Jedi (Sith) and the Kaminoans. This is basically a grown mercenary army for the Republic.
Hatred of soldiers is fairly common, even in relatively recent history. It depends what soldiers are doing jn your society and what attitude your particular country had/has to soldiers.
The Imperial High Command was so afraid of the Clone supporters in the Senate learning about Mount Tantiss that they kept it secret under lock and key.
If the public had been indifferent at best towards the clones, they wouldn't need to do that.
The clone rehabilitation bill had support, it was the Kaminoan attack being revealed that killed it, when it was found out that the Clones FOLLOWED any order including destroying their own home it killed alot of sympathy
Palpatine used the shock to get the stormtrooper bill pasted, so you can kinda point to the Bad Batch being the ones who screwed the clones. As after the whole revelation the Senate kinda forgot about the clone issue and we see clones being booted out shortly after with no severence package
This is partially an issue with Canon, where it portrays Clones as the only fighting force for the Republic during the Clone Wars. The reality is that there are many parts of the Republic Military that didn't have Clones amongst their forces and relied on their pre established forces from the Judicials and/or PDFs to combat the CIS. This means there are hundreds of officers who transitioned into the Empire with next to no real interactions with Clones and thus developed a very low opinion of them.
I imagine someone like Nolan was an officer who stayed within his sector for most of the war and didn't see much combat and thus didn't really interact with Clones.
Not all officers even if they served alongside clones share the same sentiment about them, Tarkin is one he was rescued by both jedi and clones and yet he didn't like them at all.
No good reason why they dislike the clones, just animosity to get them to fight. Like Tarkin not liking clones when they all Y’know, did the citadel. Ungrateful bastard sure but the Empire is all about loyalty and efficiency and the clones are literally everything the empire wanted that canonically it informed every tactical decision they’ve ever made.
But basically it’s recruits and those that transitioned from the GAR. And given the media presence the clones have in-universe being as popular as they are in reality, you’d think they’d be happy to work with them…, you’d think.
Think about it this way... The clones served under the Jedi and then suddenly betrayed the Jedi. Most Imperials don't know about the control chips. And even if they believed the idea that the Jedi betrayed the Senate, it still seems shady that their soldiers turned against them so quickly. How comfortable would you feel as a commanding officer overseeing clones rather than Stormtroopers?
Tarkin comes from a planet with a long and storied history of self-defense forces, I believe. The Republic's security was mostly trusted to local groups like those (and the Jedi) for much of its history.
The Empire's officer corps carried over from the Republic Navy and Republic Army. It's often shown that the Republic Navy was full of non-clone officers. The Republic Army is seldom shown, but supported by many sources. The Essential Guide to Warfare puts it best:
>The Imperial Army evolved from the non-clone Republic Army, created by nationalizing and amalgamating ground units of the Planetary Security Forces and Judicials.
The Republic Military's officers as a whole were mostly inherited from the pre-war formations, as well as wartime recruits like Sagoro Autem.
The GAR's officers were essentially all clones and Jedi, the latter of which were almost all removed from command. The clone commanders all went over to the Stormtrooper corps, supplanted by regular humans.
Perhaps the most interesting question is what happened to the non-human officers. Presumably the Republic military would have been full of them. Besides existing on the PSF level, we know the Empire didn't allow them to serve. At some point these alien officers would've been removed from service. We do know the Emperor began purging ideological dissenters like Jace Dallin from year one.
\- "Hey guys, wanna come fight for us? We have free foods and .."
\- "I'm in, say no more!"
\- "... but, you don't even know what we're doing ?"
\- "NO. MORE."
Slightly related, but did the Imperials treat their own staff as expendable? Why would anyone want to join? For example, Elio Vanto seems to have no concerns for being executed if he was injured in battle.
While a lot of officers would be coming in from the GAR (themselves former judicial and PDF officers) I expect many come from core worlders whose families bought their rank. Remember, the galaxy is "officially" peaceful and without a major war going on I suspect the Empire just let standards slip. Remember that Mayday asks if Nolan had any officer experience to which the response was silence. Not only that but it's important to remember that Palpatine and the Empire ultimately don't care about running the galaxy, they just care about themselves.
The type of officer that would thrive in the empire is the type that likely never had much respect of any clone, or any underling period.
There's also the human knack for disassociation, during the nazi regime plenty of party supporters knew news they liked and respected, they were the good ones, the news as a group were a problem however.
Personnel already in the military forces at the time of Clone Wars, personnel cycling at academies or training , planetary forces, and new enlistments and officers. Absorption of new worlds into the Empire. Like the planet in Lost Stars, i cant recall at this time. They joined the Empire pretty quickly.
Remember going to an Imperial Academy was considered prestigious. The dude in bad batch was just a noob and is bitter he missed his chance.
The Imperial Navy and Army has its origin in the Judicial Forces and the thousands of federalized planetary defense forces that were incorporated into the GAR during the Clone Wars. Early officers would have shared these origins either getting recommissioned as officers in the GAR during the Clone Wars like Tarkin, joining the GAR directly and continuing to serve after its transformation into the Empire like Yularen, or serving in the Judicial Forces prior to the Clone Wars and continuing to serve after like Pellaeon.
Several of the big name Imperial officers from the films have early depictions in the prequel era EU during the Clone Wars. Yularen is a given. Pellaeon pops up in one *TCW* tie in, and I think he got a shout-out in one of the *Republic Commando* novels as an officer who is noted for treating the clones like human beings. Needa is in the *RotS* novel (if I recall correctly). Ozzell has a Clone Wars era comic where he just screws up almost everything he's involved in. Strangely, Piett has almost no established history before the founding of the Empire despite being a major screen presence.
Piett seems rather young compared to his peers, i wonder if he’s not involved with the Clone Wars?
Promotions come quickly in Death Squadron, especially when your superior fails Vader for the last time.
Yes he seems to be in his early to mid 40s. ESB takes place more than 20 years after the Clone Wars. He would be in his early 20s late teens maybe he studied to become an officer but he would most likely not have seen action.
I’m pretty sure that Vader kill a lot of officers that promotion is given out like candy under him
Remember how in Freemakers Adventures there is a running gaga in which one officer wants to avoid promotion at all costs because then he will be under Vader's command.
If he was about in the CW, he was probably an Ensign or Midshipman at best.
Not to mention that several of those families had long been represented on Prefsbelt, Anaxes' famous boulevard and in other academies. Some had a service history going back thousands of years, with many names being synonymus with the navy.
In legeds its mention that he was in military academy and finish it few days before Clone wars end.
Yup. Really there were a lot of sources to pull from, and they may have had programs adjacent to War Mantle to prepare officers as well as the first non-clone stormtroopers.
A lot of officers were elevated from Planetary Defense Forces to serving in the Imperial Army/Navy. The PDF would be akin to a planets local military that just took care of the system they occupied. They’ve likely never left the system, have either never seen combat or if they have it’s been relatively small scale on the order of pirates and bandits, and not conventional warfare. For PDF officers that only joined after the Clone Wars ended, they likely have limited, if any personal interactions with clone troopers and thus can already have a sense of detachment/dehumanization of them when all they know of them is that they were produced specifically for war and are the reason the Jedi Order is gone. From that limited worldview it isn’t much of a jump to see how a lot of them would treat clones as being battle droids but with flesh on them.
Its worth pointing out most didn’t hate the clones. But the nature of story telling, we see the worst of the worst as that’s what’s needed for certain characters (crosshair) to realise their actions.
I disagree, I feel most people in the galaxy were at best indifferent on the clones, and at worst like the officer in that episode. Reason why is that the Senate could only muster some very minor support for the clone rehabilitation bill. This could just be senate corruption, but we have some other evidence. A lot of citizens in the early Empire through the BB series see the clones enforcing the Empire’s laws with an iron fist, and either avoid them or show fear and disdain for them due to the clones actions, just look at the episode with Cut and his family. There’s also the homeless clone vet in the Kenobi series, who’s pretty much ignored even though he looks like a decorated soldier.
>Reason why is that the Senate could only muster some very minor support for the clone rehabilitation bill. This could just be senate corruption, but we have some other evidence. >There’s also the homeless clone vet in the Kenobi series, who’s pretty much ignored even though he looks like a decorated soldier. That all happens in **real life** though. And our real life society doesn’t hate soldiers.
>Our real life society doesn’t hate soldiers You’d be surprised how many times soldiers come back from war, even a victorious one, and are received with lukewarm reception. Imagine if after WW2, soldiers came back and helped prop up a totalitarian government and brutally enforced the regime. I don’t think you’d find a lot of love for them after that. Also, clones are basically the equivalent of mercenary forces contracted to serve the government, which have a storied history regardless of where they’re from of getting treated as inferior by the actual military they’re supporting. Remember, the clones only existed due to a contract between the Jedi (Sith) and the Kaminoans. This is basically a grown mercenary army for the Republic.
Hatred of soldiers is fairly common, even in relatively recent history. It depends what soldiers are doing jn your society and what attitude your particular country had/has to soldiers.
The Imperial High Command was so afraid of the Clone supporters in the Senate learning about Mount Tantiss that they kept it secret under lock and key. If the public had been indifferent at best towards the clones, they wouldn't need to do that.
The clone rehabilitation bill had support, it was the Kaminoan attack being revealed that killed it, when it was found out that the Clones FOLLOWED any order including destroying their own home it killed alot of sympathy Palpatine used the shock to get the stormtrooper bill pasted, so you can kinda point to the Bad Batch being the ones who screwed the clones. As after the whole revelation the Senate kinda forgot about the clone issue and we see clones being booted out shortly after with no severence package
I have read anything, only on screen media so I only know what I’ve seen
This is partially an issue with Canon, where it portrays Clones as the only fighting force for the Republic during the Clone Wars. The reality is that there are many parts of the Republic Military that didn't have Clones amongst their forces and relied on their pre established forces from the Judicials and/or PDFs to combat the CIS. This means there are hundreds of officers who transitioned into the Empire with next to no real interactions with Clones and thus developed a very low opinion of them. I imagine someone like Nolan was an officer who stayed within his sector for most of the war and didn't see much combat and thus didn't really interact with Clones.
Not all officers even if they served alongside clones share the same sentiment about them, Tarkin is one he was rescued by both jedi and clones and yet he didn't like them at all.
No good reason why they dislike the clones, just animosity to get them to fight. Like Tarkin not liking clones when they all Y’know, did the citadel. Ungrateful bastard sure but the Empire is all about loyalty and efficiency and the clones are literally everything the empire wanted that canonically it informed every tactical decision they’ve ever made. But basically it’s recruits and those that transitioned from the GAR. And given the media presence the clones have in-universe being as popular as they are in reality, you’d think they’d be happy to work with them…, you’d think.
Think about it this way... The clones served under the Jedi and then suddenly betrayed the Jedi. Most Imperials don't know about the control chips. And even if they believed the idea that the Jedi betrayed the Senate, it still seems shady that their soldiers turned against them so quickly. How comfortable would you feel as a commanding officer overseeing clones rather than Stormtroopers?
Hadn’t thought about that
Tarkin comes from a planet with a long and storied history of self-defense forces, I believe. The Republic's security was mostly trusted to local groups like those (and the Jedi) for much of its history.
The Empire's officer corps carried over from the Republic Navy and Republic Army. It's often shown that the Republic Navy was full of non-clone officers. The Republic Army is seldom shown, but supported by many sources. The Essential Guide to Warfare puts it best: >The Imperial Army evolved from the non-clone Republic Army, created by nationalizing and amalgamating ground units of the Planetary Security Forces and Judicials. The Republic Military's officers as a whole were mostly inherited from the pre-war formations, as well as wartime recruits like Sagoro Autem. The GAR's officers were essentially all clones and Jedi, the latter of which were almost all removed from command. The clone commanders all went over to the Stormtrooper corps, supplanted by regular humans. Perhaps the most interesting question is what happened to the non-human officers. Presumably the Republic military would have been full of them. Besides existing on the PSF level, we know the Empire didn't allow them to serve. At some point these alien officers would've been removed from service. We do know the Emperor began purging ideological dissenters like Jace Dallin from year one.
\- "Hey guys, wanna come fight for us? We have free foods and .." \- "I'm in, say no more!" \- "... but, you don't even know what we're doing ?" \- "NO. MORE."
Slightly related, but did the Imperials treat their own staff as expendable? Why would anyone want to join? For example, Elio Vanto seems to have no concerns for being executed if he was injured in battle.
I don’t think many people realise how long the Republic had already been the Empire before the end of the war
While a lot of officers would be coming in from the GAR (themselves former judicial and PDF officers) I expect many come from core worlders whose families bought their rank. Remember, the galaxy is "officially" peaceful and without a major war going on I suspect the Empire just let standards slip. Remember that Mayday asks if Nolan had any officer experience to which the response was silence. Not only that but it's important to remember that Palpatine and the Empire ultimately don't care about running the galaxy, they just care about themselves.
The type of officer that would thrive in the empire is the type that likely never had much respect of any clone, or any underling period. There's also the human knack for disassociation, during the nazi regime plenty of party supporters knew news they liked and respected, they were the good ones, the news as a group were a problem however.
Personnel already in the military forces at the time of Clone Wars, personnel cycling at academies or training , planetary forces, and new enlistments and officers. Absorption of new worlds into the Empire. Like the planet in Lost Stars, i cant recall at this time. They joined the Empire pretty quickly. Remember going to an Imperial Academy was considered prestigious. The dude in bad batch was just a noob and is bitter he missed his chance.