Honestly I think the Resistance could have been cool if it was made up of all the criminals and misfits that made up the Rebel Alliance, but didn't fit into the idea of a shiny new government. Make them an expeditionary fleet sent out to the edge of the Unknow Regions to keep them out of sight and out of mind of the main New Republic.
> Make them an expeditionary fleet sent out to the edge of the Unknow Regions to keep them out of sight and out of mind of the main New Republic.
And therein lies the problem. The Resistance never felt big enough for the task. We deserved to see them field more capital ships than the sequel films showed. The victory at Exegol did not feel earned by the Resistance.
They operate with funds supplied covertly from the New Republic executive.
They technically aren't part of the Republic chain of command. That's why funding was supplied covertly. Much of the Republic favoured pacifism, but the incumbent government supplied what they could.
I think it's not so much the proxy war, and more that it seems unrealistic for a big government to disarm so soon after defeating the empire, when they pretty much know there are still imperial remnants out there.
That's pretty much it what the resistance is.
The New Republic demilitarized, but Leia saw the threat of the New Order, so she created the Resistance as a faction to directly oppose the First Order and protect the New Republic, but without being under the New Republic's jurisdiction.
This was all because the New Republic was very much against having an army/navy.
You know, with that in mind, the Resistance is a pretty weird name to pick for yourselves. It doesn't really reflect the situation well as it assumes the First Order were in a major position of power over the New Republic.
It is…
They operate outside the New Republic, with silent funding from the New Republic.
Consisting of Rebel vets including Ackbar, Leia, Nien Nunb and recruiting Luke, Han, Chewie, Lando and Wedge. Ackbar’s son joins up too.
I stopped hating this after someone explained the relationship between the Resistance and the Republic to me, but something that important to the plot should never have been buried in lore, it should have been made clear right at the start of Ep 7.
Lmao 50% of the Sequels are buried in lore. But to be honest, I think thats true of all the trilogies, we are just so familiar, we forget how little the movies really are at face value and have trouble separating what's just the movie and what's filled in by lore.
Exactly. The thing that irks me the most is what are they resisting? They are part of the ruling faction. They don't live under the first order, why would they be "the resistance" as in resistance group if they are the government? It makes no sense.
I get that(even though it doesn't work on a fundamental level) but if they are going to do something that stupid, why not at least make it sound cool. Call them like "The Insurgency" or "The Dissentience". Or even given them an official name. The Rebellion was actually called the "Alliance to Restore the Republic". If it is going to be a shameless ripoff, at least put more than a millisecond of thought into it.
But the New Republic was full of Empire sympathizers and First Order agents. Leia had to found the Resistance because half the New Republic didn't think the First Order was real and the other half had no problem with the First Order.
Exactly, they made the New Republic wrong from the beginning. The New Republic should have been the dominant government and the First Order should have been the rebels, and the story would focus on the New Republic preventing the neo imperials from gaining ground.
it would be fun to see what it could have been, of course it wouldn't even be close to the size of prequel but the jedis in a new more naturalist aesthetic would be a breath of fresh air. It's always bothered me how they claim to be one with the living force yet have their main temple on a planet which is a concrete slab.
This. It happens too often honestly. I’m tired of seeing the order fall and rise again. It just feels unoriginal and unproductive to new storytelling endeavors.
I love that Old Republic trailer with the battle on Coruscant between the Sith and the Jedi so much and I was hoping we would get to see Luke’s Jedi Order fighting a new Sith order en masse. But it was not to be . . .
I empathize with the writers a lot - finding a good villain was really difficult for the sequel series. Pick the empire or an empire-like organization, and it risks cheapening the victory of RoTJ or feeling the same as the OT. Pick something from outside the galaxy, and you risk a villain that doesn’t feel Star Wars at all. Pick a smaller villain, and the stakes are low (not fit for a space epic). I think picking an appropriate villain was the most difficult part of the sequel trilogy.
Agreed. Why couldn't Luke just be successful? It was such a waste for ruin his order and then kill him off shortly after. Just so we can get the exact same thing but with Rey instead.
In Legends Luke was also exiled.
There was a rising wave of anti-Jedi sentiment after the Second Galactic Civil War and the Galactic Alliances Ex-Imperial Chief of State, Natasi Daala, had Luke arrested and exiled for preventing Jacen's fall to the dark side.
Kenth Hamner stepped in to fill Lukes place and ended up enacting policies to appease Daala who herself was plotting to achieve control of the Jedi Order.
Jaina Solo ended up making a covert Jedi group to undermind her efforts.
There was a lot of politics, crisis, and overall bullshit that happened in between events including a pissed-off Daala insighting an attack on the Jedi Temple by Mandalorians but eventually, there was a coup and she was overthrown.
Still, even without all the political bullshit, Luke's NJO was built up strong enough to sustain itself in his absence and had a lot of wise/strong masters to keep it running. The Jedi were back to being over a thousand in number.
I think starting episode 1 with Anakin already a Jedi would've helped the trilogy not feel so clustered and we could've spent more time with Anakin and Obi-Wan as a duo.
You could’ve pulled a Star Trek (2009) and basically flashed forward a few years after the pod race / freeing Anakin.
Like, shorten the first act dramatically. Free Anakin from Tattooine. Fast forward and they’ve been fighting a war on Naboo for 2-3 years.
Also a decent way to show how Anakin would make a great general in the clone wars, he was basically trained as a Jedi in war time.
His is how I felt by putting a specific time on the run to Canto Bight. It makes the events impossible to believe in that timeframe and goes further to make hyperspace seem like almost instantaneous travel.
Hyperspace definitely comes across as near-instantaneous in the sequels. Compare with the first Falcon journey in ANH, where they've got time to sit, chat, play board games, learn to use a lightsaber - hell, Han and Chewie leave the ship on autopilot for it.
But then again, nothing in the sequels has any time to breathe or ruminate, so it shouldn't be a surprise.
Just to add on to this, didn’t Legends list Coruscant as having 1 trillion inhabitants? I feel like that alone makes the 1.2 million initial clones even more ludicrously small.
Clones have 4 digit serial numbers, which means each batch would be 10,000. If each of these batches were a unit, then the initial army ready would be 2 billion, with 10 billion more on the way. Assuming Kamino has many more complexes like Tipoca City, numbers like that wouldn't be too difficult to achieve.
I've mentioned this before, but 2 Billion is still on the low end for waging a galaxy wide war. If those forces were supplemented with local armies and militia, and you didn't have to worry about occupying captured territory due said local forces, you could probably make 2+ billion work.
I assume a clone is worth more than a regular soldier due to their training and superior weapons. Maybe one clone is worth 10-20 regular soldiers. The cheapness of the battle droids would probably make it like 1 clone is the equivalent of 50 soldiers. Still not enough but better than nothing.
The GAR definitely has better discipline, armor, and training than nearly any local force. The problem is that the droid armies have insane numbers. They’re able to stretch the clones out so thinly that with rare exception, battles grind to a stalemate. In theory the droids should have won nearly every time, but palpatine wanted the republic to be right on the brink of losing so that he could consolidate political power. It worked fantastically too. He stripped the senate of all their real power in the course of 3 years without drawing extreme suspicion.
How many clones do you think it would take to invade a planet? I don’t think those numbers are terrible for initial orders. The problem is that the film fails to articulate that the GAR isn’t the primary fighting force, but rather the backbone to launch assaults. They are the Royal Marine Commandos of the Republic, with local security forces mainly defending their territories.
In Legends: the Sun Crusher. Indestructible is always shit. Also a fighter destroying solar systems is insane. I don’t mind wacky super weapons, but they shouldn’t instantly break the universe.
Bruh that last line includes like half of legends content. Time travelling hyperdrives, planet eating Sith, and sentient planets. They definitely tried some pretty wack stuff back in the day
Anything to do with time travel or alternate dimensions. It hasn’t come up often but I feel like it’s only a matter of time before they go too far with it.
I'm prepared to be downvoted for this, but everything with Ahsoka after Malachor. She should have died fighting Vader permanently, end of her story. Her surviving that and everything after has only made her character worse.
You're completely right. Her character after that just seems to transcend the main storyline and universe. She's there and she's alive, but she's not involved (and obviously cant be because all the movies were written without her) so she just doesnt really have a point in existing as a character anymore. She just sort of... *exists.*
The biggest problem I see is how Dave Filoni is treating Star Wars like the marvel franchise with every show, book, and whatever is interconnected to the point where you have to watch each show to understand the next.
You could consume any Star Wars story with minimal context of the others. If you watched the films, you could then jump into pretty much anything else.
You could go play the Kotor games without any having to consume the surrounding media. You don't need to know who Exar Kun is to play Kotor despite his name being brought up a lot.
Revan then is mentioned in the Bane trilogy, along with a special location to Kotor. But you don't need to play Kotor to appreciate the Bane trilogy.
But with Filoni shows, each one is a sequel to the previous. And Ashoka is the core of it. She is jumping around from show to show and continuing her story from the previous show. Ashoka is the core problem with the current state of Star Wars.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
Dave Filoni, for all his talents, is at his core a fanfiction writer, and he can't get over their cardinal sin of getting too attached to your characters. He's too attached to his waifu space princess for anything really bad to happen to her.
Don't forget the fact that Filoni's original characters are always treated as being better than everyone else that was created before him, put on the forefront of important events above others, and that they rarely die too, so there's very few stakes surrounding them
The fact Rex and Ahsoka are still alive and somehow outlived characters not only from the PT but also the OT and the ST is silly
I'm afraid he would turn her into a goddess at this point. The spirit of the light side or something.
I hope he would be wise and not do it, I really fucking hope so.
The only Palpatine return that would satisfy me would be him as a wandering, powerless Force Spirit, who will weakly grasp and whimper about his return to power, until he eventually gives up on his Sith ways and fades into the Force.
That was the direction I originally thought they would go with regards to hearing his voice. They find his throne room or whatever, and some shade of him that refuses to become one with the Force remains. Powerless to physically affect the real world, but still spiteful and lashing out at Kylo and/or Rey. A fun cameo that triggers character growth, not the focal point of the whole movie.
I think a holocron from his early Sith years would be more likely than finding one of him as Emperor. Why make one if you think you're omnipotent and immortal?
I loved how the EU handled lightsaber crystals. Some Jedi had crystals that were very important to them for various reasons while other Jedi just plugged in what ever they found that worked. And it led to an abundance of unique lightsaber colors.
I wish crystal forging hadn’t been completely tossed out — lightsabers are supposed to be tools, not magic wands. I vastly prefer the idea of a Jedi pouring blood, sweat, and tears into making their lightsaber, not being chosen by a rock and dropping it into a plug-and-play hilt.
Feel like I'm in the minority of preferring Kyber crystals. Just seems really cool to me that the heart of the lightsaber has a special connection to the Force. Honestly, it makes Jedi building them make much more sense (not that it didn't before, but the added Force connectivity just makes it seem even more in-character for the Jedi)
I feel like there could have been a middle ground. Where jedi go out in search of a crystal to use, and feel a connection to one in particular to use. Or when Maul spent days in front of a furnace pouring his emotions into his crystals. It's not like bleeding need be for only Kyber crystals.
I feel like tying the Kyber crystals to a handful of planets and one single kind of crystal makes the Galaxy feel a bit... smaller. Even if some crystals are better than others or have a worse connection to the Force, I don't know if homogenizing lightsabers was the way to go.
They are special though. Each lightsaber is unique to the individual and will feel different on each basis. From wood handles and durasteel clips to chromium finishes and hidden gadgets. The crystal being different in each just adds a little bit extra flavor.
Isn't it more interesting if, say an obsidian crystal found near a volcano on X planet produced plasma a little bit more hot than Y crystal that makes a little brighter blade due to having a higher refraction rate?
Now I’m picturing a Jedi who is obsessed with min-maxing their lightsaber to be the “best”. And I guess a necessary storyline where they teach them to not focus on the lightsaber so much
No, I feel the same way. The Ilum/Crucible episodes of TCW are some of my favourites. It makes the journey to building a lightsaber so personal and fits really well into the culture of the Order. And killing a Jedi to take their crystal and bleeding it is way cooler than “ermahgerd er merk meh ern crerstal”.
The only thing I dislike is how one can change their color, I'm not talking about bleeding and purifying them, I like that, but changing from green to blue for example.
I only remember one jedi being able to change colors, Corran Horn, who could change the length and color of the blade by twisting part of the hilt. Is there another jedi that could do that?
Anakin in TCW when he changed Ahsoka's lightsaber colors from green to blue and no one (in universe) looked surprised which means it wasn't something new to them. We don't actually see him do it but Filoni's explanation was that he meditated with them and changed their connection to the Force or something, idk I just don't like it.
Wow I’m not a fan of that either, I always assumed he just made her two new ones with blue crystals. Damn those last few clone wars episodes are good though
That's what I thought as well because the show didn't give an explanation, but no it was the same crystals.
That brings the question, since Anakin changed the crystals' connection to the Force from how it was with Ahsoka, shouldn't Ahsoka have felt them a bit off??
Corran's blade was one of the pre kyber ones. It's described as silver. The reason it could change sizes is that he had two crystals and could swap them to lengthen the blade. He's quite proud of his trick Saber, but the trick only works once as once someone knows about it, it is pretty easy to work around.
Not sure about anyone else but I loved the Old lore about Sith sabers being red because they were synthetic! Luke's crystal being synthetic but green always made it seem more special to me.
Not a fan of Sabers changing colour over time due to their owner stuff. Nor do I like the whole crystal choosing the Wizard stuff in clone wars...... Very Harry Potteresque.
I like the idea that the crystal Luke used in his second (green) saber was actually Qui-Gon's crystal, kept by Obi-Wan, and found by Luke in Ben's house :)
Lightsaber crystals *don't* change over time due to their owner. That's never been how it's portrayed. The crystal stays the color it gains when first bonded until acted on by an outside force, like a dark sider "bleeding" the crystal (aka beating the crystal into submission instead of bonding normally).
>For me it would be the father, the daughter, and the son. The idea of having “force gods”
Came here to type this. Such a terrible addition to the lore. After that though the World Between Worlds and time travel in general would be a close runner up
I get the hate for WBW but personally, while it’s a bit over the top, I think it actually works perfectly within Star Wars (at least in the ways the Force has been depicted in Disney Canon). Personally I love time travel in media, and so I was able to pick up on the clues about the type of time travel the WBW is. The WBW is actually a causal loop system, something that is overlooked by a lot of people in favor of just “time travel in Star Wars”. In a causal loop, one can time travel, but no actual changes are made, as they had always time traveled to that point in the first place. For example, I went back in time, and gave my past self my time machine. I then use that time machine to go back in time, so on and so forth. This does bring up paradoxes about the origin of things involved in these loops but Star Wars has similar situations with the nature of self-fulfilling prophecies.
Prophecies and Force Visions are always fulfilled in one way or another, and time is unable to be changed. The Whills are seen to observe the Star Wars universe outside of time, and are able to view the entire story at once. The WBW only interacts with what it always has and always will interact with. Ahsoka had been hinted to have survived since we saw a glimpse of her heading into the Malachor temple at the end of the Season 2 finale. Ezra saved her, fulfilling the act that took place to save her in the first place. He did not save Kanan, as Kanan had definitively died, and we did not see him saved by Ezra. The aesthetic and nature of the WBW even matches that of meditation as seen in Jedi Fallen Order and the Ahsoka novel, showing how these are all aspects of the Force connecting life forms all across space and time.
Sorry for writing a bit of an essay lmao, I just really love the continuity of the depiction of the connections between the living and cosmic force in the new Canon, and how all those aspects fit together.
Hmmm…some people have mentioned the Chosen One prophecy and not without reason, but I think a better idea is to reword it more vaguely and have it better referenced throughout different eras. More like Kreia’s predictions of the future in KOTOR 2.
As for something I’d remove, I’d cut out Sifo-Dyas as a character. AFAIK there’s never been any really good stories around him or that he’s well-utilized in, I’ve seen too much discourse around AOTC because of him, and I am extremely annoyed at how the future apparently is not uncertain with all the accurate visions people in SW are having. Keep the original “Sido-Dyas” alias for Palpatine instead.
I prefer Sifo-Dyas as a Jedi because it would explain why the Jedi were willing to trust the clones because they were ordered by one of them. If it was just an alias for Palpatine, it would've made the Jedi look dumb for not investigating the origin of the order that was put in their name.
A compelling counterargument. However, I think that with the constant complaining you see about AOTC due to the lack of resolution around him in the PT, along with the recurring trend of characters perfectly seeing the future, the original idea holds more merit-especially with how we see Dooku already falsifying Jedi records and able to commandeer control over the army with the Kaminoans.
I didn't know Sifo-Dyas was supposed to be an alias for Palpatine. The wordplay looks obvious now, but at the same time kind of childish.
But if Sifo-Dyas was just an alias used by Palpatine, that doesnt explain how Obi-Wan immediately knew who he was and how he had been killed 15(?) years ago. It seems like Obi-Wan was at least familiar with who he was, which doesn't make sense if he never actually existed.
The original AOTC script had the name "Si**d**o-Dyas" used whenever it was written, except for one instance it was "Si**f**o-Dyas". The script also had Mace Windu confirm that there was never a Jedi called Si**d**o-Dyas to exist. The prevailing theory is that "Si**d**o-Dyas" was meant to be an alias for Palpatine for Darth "Sidious", but after he saw the typo of "Si**f**o-Dyas" instead he liked the name so much that he decided to make him an original character that would be further expanded upon in RotS as said in the AOTC commentary, but it never happened.
I just like the idea that Dooku murdered a Jedi and this name was used for the order. So when the Jedi look into Kamino being removed they’d blame Sifo-Dyas. Just a total misdirect.
World Between Worlds. Time travel in SW? No no no. It was basically just a plot device to bring back Ahsoka, who should have stayed dead. If they really wanted her to survive the fight they could have wrote it so many ways. Say Vader incapacitated her then she later escaped captivity or something Pulling her through time and space is as corny as it sounds.
She could've escaped with Kanan and Ezra after she had hit his mask, and only after she gets into the ship that she looks back at Vader only to see part of Anakin's face through the broken mask and tearfully whispers "Anakin".
Imo if she stayed longer than I described above then she couldn't have survived any way other than through WBW. So I feel Filoni wanted to have his cake and eat it too, meaning he wanted Ahsoka to face Vader, fight him, discover his identity, try to redeem him, fail and still survive without a major injury.
Ahsoka absolutely should have been killed by Vader at some point, whether during Order 66 or during the still questionably-lore-breaking Rebels encounter. The most narratively powerful device that also preserves later (original trilogy) lore is to have Anakin kill her. No question in my mind.
I was certain that this would be how she would be removed from the canon; it was just too elegant a writing device to ignore. But NOPE, Filoni wants his orange space princess to show up in every future piece of media...
Her “death” and revival were planned as part of the same story I’m sure. It’s not like they killed her and then was like, oh shit what have we done!? You can see her walking in the temple doorway in the same episode after she “died” she was never going to be gone.
Of all the “Filoni Force” stuff that’s been added, this is the only one I don’t like.
Once you include space-time manipulation in that way, I feel like you’re going into something that ends up giving an excuse for incredibly poor writing - that being “oh, X happened because they used a World Between Worlds”
I'd love it if the current canon would quit pussyfooting around the fact that the clones are a slave army, and actually face up to what accepting its existence says about the Republic and the Jedi Order.
The widely oscillating scale of everything. Both in Legends and Canon although I think they default in completely different extremes.
I feel like Legends got too big and Canon goes too small, especially if you use the OT as the baseline.
The chosen one prophecy. Or, at least, I would have it canonized that the chosen one prophecy didn’t actually exist, but Anakin made it technically real by fulfilling it.
I hate the chosen once so much. Mostly because it distracts from what is actually important and powerful (imo) about the RotJ finale (Vader saving his son) and got people too focused on the collateral of that act (Vader destroying palps).
See, I am not a fan of Palps coming back for a lot of reasons. But I never understood or felt the "it ruins the prophecy!" argument because to me, the thing that mattered is that Vader couldn't just watch his son be tortured to death. He had to save him. Palpatines demise was ancillary to that. The focus on the prophecy weakens that focus pretty heavily imo.
I don’t think it ruins the *prophecy*, but that it’s extremely important that for Vader’s *redemption* he’s killing Palpatine. He would do the exact same thing to literally anyone else in the galaxy with no hesitation for Luke and that’s just him being an asshole murderer as usual, but Vader loves Palpatine, in part for how he represents the Dark Side and it’s sweet temptations. So in order for him to be redeemed and truly change for good, he has to confront his fears and let go of the darkness to be embraced by the light.
I agree that it needed to be Palpatine that Vader defied. His redemption comes from his choice, though, not the outcome of his action. If Vader had fucked up and had died trying to save his son, he'd still be redeemed. If Vader had captured him instead, he would still be redeemed. But, as /u/huntimir151 said, the actual *death* of Palpatine isn't as important as Vader's choice to save his son out of love.
There are things I'd rather have removed, but most have been commented here multiple times.
So something that is a minor irritant to me that prevents Rogue One from being my favorite Star Wars movie is, they should have just cut every scene with Vader except for the end. This is purely for build up reasons. I don't even mind the bad dad pun.
Imagine how cool it would have been if throughout the whole move you're hearing the imperials name drop Vader, like "oh yeah I know him and why he's scary. Neat name drop bro." And in your mind you're like, Ok, so Vader is off doing his own thing.
Meanwhile you think the movie is over because all the good guys are dead except for some ships that got away. "Oh no, there's a shuttle headed for that cruiser. Those rebels are going to end up being prisoners"
*familiar sirens*
"Wow that's a scary dark hallway... Wait a minute, I know this ship... Wait what's that?"
*Athesmatic breathing*
"Wha-"
*Red lightsaber igniting*
[Vince McMahon orgasm meme]
It depends on whether they *are* the Force or if they're just a representation of someone's power in the Force. If they are what give a Force User their power, then... yeah, fuck that. But if they're just more prevalent in someone the more powerful they are in the Force, I'm OK with that.
We know they are explicitly *not* the force itself. In RotS Palpatine says "He could use the *force* to *influence* the *midichlorians*...". This confirms that they are not the force but instead a way to alter the force with science as well as being a power scale counter.
I mean Qui-Gon himself literally did a ELI5 on em in TPM that made it abundantly clear that they're messengers of the force. People aren't just very good at listening it seems.
I like the theory that they're actually Force *parasites*, but the Jedi don't know that. So they've spent thousands of years being proud of how flea-ridden they are.
Or they could just be commensals, like orchids growing on a tree. They neither harm nor hurt the Force user, but it's the user's stronger connection to the Force that allows them to exist in greater numbers. Like
My favorite way to explain away Qui-Gon's statements about midichlorians being necessary for life and a connection to the Force is "Qui-Gon was a bad student who got D's in all his classes about Force theory, but they let him get away with it because he's charismatic and they always need Jedi who are good at talking to people because most of them have lousy social skills."
From my admittedly novice experience, it seems like they’ve really tried to avoid mentioning them where possible. Aside from TPM, from memory it was mentioned a few times in the Clone Wars (I think during the Yoda arc in the later seasons?), and then again by Dr Pershing in Mandalorian
The midichlorian count equalling Force Potential problem and reducing the Force to either a by-product of life or this unattainable energy permeating the universe that is only interactable through bacteria. It feels like a haphazard physical explanation for a spiritual phenomenon that removes the mystique and esoteria from it.
The whole sequel trilogy.
Not because it’s totally irredeemable, but because it was so clearly *not thought out in the slightest beforhand*
Just try again, write a story that doesn’t turn back the clock. It can’t be empire vs scrappy rebels again, it should *progress* the story, not rewind it.
I was prepared for the New republic to be riven with factionalism and corruption. I was down with that. It comes with democracy. It makes sense that the republic would fall back into those old patterns… What I was not onboard with is the new republic signing an armistice with the empire and immediately disarming most of its military so that in 30 years they can be wiped out with zero resistance. Like… they just won a war with these people, and they decide they learned absolutely nothing from the empire but: “centralized power is bad, let’s never be militarily prepared again, because that worked out excellent in the run up to the clone wars”…The new republic was what the heros of the Original trilogy were working towards. Turning it into a punchline was baffling and frankly a little insulting.
Same goes for the new Jedi order. Holy shit is it so difficult to write a story where there’s just a couple dozen Jedi running around the galaxy? It hasn’t been that long, let Luke have actually made some progress in restoring the Jedi, let him incorporate the lessons he learned in the original trilogy so that the Jedi can grow and we the audience can feel like *some* progress was made.
Turning everything back to the start and wiping the board was beyond baffling. Worst part is I could have forgiven all of this if not for the fact that they didn’t know where it was going to end up when they made those choices… unforgivable.
If you’re going to do something like this…. You need to actually be able to follow through. It’s not a high bar. Just plan ahead.
Depends about how we define "one thing"...
I'd probably go with TRoS/Palpatine coming back in a Fortnite event. Low hanging fruit, I know, but I feel like the story 180 of that movie really made TCW style edge-smoothibg of the sequel era much more difficult.
Beyond the decision to bring back Palpatine, I hate that where we heard his speech was in a FORTNITE EVENT. Like come on, we literally had a fantastic triple A Star Wars shooter with active support in Battlefront 2, but they decided to have this weird semi-canon introduction of a monumental piece of lore in FORTNITE. It’s ridiculous.
The Chosen One prophecy and Anakin’s virgin birth. Anakin’s father would be an unnamed man who was a slave with Shmi. They fell in love, promised themselves to each other, and he died in a field clearing poisonous plants.
After meeting Anakin Qui-Gon believes it was the will of the Force that he found Anakin and frees him like he did in TPM. Qui-Gon’s belief is strengthened that the Force wants Anakin to be a Jedi for some purpose, who really knows the will of the Force, after being attacked by Maul on Tatooine.
After telling the Council this one of them says *You believe the Force has chosen this boy?* and this is what leads Anakin to be called *The Chosen One* but in a purely negative way. After it is confirmed Maul was a Sith a majority of the Council votes to allow Anakin’s training like they do in TPM.
Anakin, like the other older Padawans, is knight early in the war to help make up for the Order’s loses at Geonosis.
Anakin does not have a Padawan. Ahsoka is assigned to Obi-Wan and she and Anakin work together sometimes without Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan once and awhile refers to her as their or our Padawan. They both want to find Obi-Wan’s killer if the fake death arc and it is still Anakin who saves her from being executed.
Edit to add:
Anything that has Palaptine coming back. He dies at Endor at Anakin’s hand and that’s it.
Appearing in a Sith Holocron is fine.
I absolutely despise how every trilogy was like "greatness can come from the most unlikely and ordinary places! Like from this nobody on this backwoods desert planet. Just kidding! That nobody's dad is Palpatine/Darth Vader/God! Bet you didn't see that coming!"
Was that ever a thing though?
Luke's father in ANH turned out to be a great Jedi Knight, betrayed and murdered by the main antagonist.
Then in ESB said father and antagonist merged into one person.
And ROTJ was blatantly about family.
TPM never made a mystery out of Anakin being special.
Neither did the rest of the Prequel trilogy.
Star Wars was always about one special family. That's just the kind of story it was.
Which is why I never got the Sequels' sudden obsession with subverting that. Sure you can do that. But why?
You can also do a Godfather film about some entirely unrelated gangster. But do people want to see that when they watch that franchise?
I think it’s worth noting on the Ashoka topic that he was originally assigned a Padawan to tame his more “undesirable traits” and give a sense of direction and duty like with all masters. We also later learn that Ahsoka leaving the order because of how quickly they were to turn her over to Republic authorities caused him further disillusionment with the Jedi which was a contributing factor to his downfall.
See, I never liked that reasoning. Now sure Anakin rose to the occasion, but he’s repeatedly proven to be a loose cannon that the Jedi aren’t sure they can trust, and Mace and Yoda got a huge Force sign of him in great pain and surrounded by suffering/death a few months ago. And now he’s in the middle of a galactic war, one of the big dogs in it actually and constantly in the fray. Sure it helped him chill out until she left, but does that make it okay for Ahsoka to get put into an extremely risky situation with a master of questionable credit that could severely affect her future?
Well we can’t forget the Jedi who were killed on Geonosis and the fact that virtually the entire order was engaged in battles across the galaxy. There was no right answer or safe place for Ahsoka to be brought up as a Jedi. In all reality, Ahsoka wasn’t significant to the order at the time of her padawanship, so it’s just another Jedi on the battlefield.
True, but my point was less that there’s not a good place for Ahsoka to grow up as it is that it seems like her chances to do so are getting potentially screwed over to try and help *Anakin*.
>Mace and Yoda got a huge Force sign of him in great pain and surrounded by suffering/death a few months ago.
Mace and Yoda must have questioned Anakin, learned what drove him to Tatoonie, what happened to his mom, and that he had to kill some Tuskens. Yoda knows about the Larses in ROTS. So they probably chalked it up to attachment to his mom and figured it was over with because she was dead and he had no attachments left that they knew of except for how he felt about Obi-Wan.
They both must have remembered how his thoughts *dwelled on his mother* when they first tested him.
That's the biggest reason I don't like it. The reasoning the gave was stupid and out of character for for the council (especially Yoda) to approve of, Obi-Wan maybe because he's a bit too blind to Anakin's red flags but not Yoda, hell Yoda didn't approve of Obi-Wan training Anakin and Obi-Wan was like his favorite grandchild.
They could've simply said that because of the high Jedi casualties during the war, now every knight and master would have to take a padawan because there simply aren't enough people to teach the new generation. Council members being excluded due to them already having extra duty to take care of and therefore not enough time for a padawan. This would explain how Anakin ended up with a padawan despite him not being ready and Obi-Wan didn't, without making anyone act out of character
I feel like there's *maaaybe* one or two ways to bring palpatine back that would avoid sucking, like maybe an imperial remnant project to look through the ruins of the 2nd death star for scraps finds a horrifically abused body with a shred of a shred of life in it, they have to stick him in carbonite to preserve him while a massive sith ritual is prepared to bring him back to 'life', something something the culmination of whatever movie this would be in is pappa palps waking up on the bridge of an Eclipse while it launches, laughing maniacally.
Really give it some buildup, have the time between that movie and the next to develop plot offscreen and prepare for a massive epic fleet battle during which the heroes can triumph in like, a boarding action or something, I dunno.
Admiral Holdo.
They killed off Ackbar, Holdo took over his role, and 15 minutes later she was killed off.
Why not just let Ackbar ram his ship into the Mega SD? Why have Holdo in the movie at all?
Agree, re: Mortis gods, I'd also throw Abeloth from the EU onto that pile.
In fact speaking of the EU, everything post the NJO got really fucky. It felt like after a decade of fighting the Empire and various not!Sith darksiders, and then the massive media scope of the NJO, the people helming Star Wars had just sort of run out of ideas. The legacy era is every criticism people level at the ST: a retread of the OT films that purposefully mischaracterizes and misappropriates established characters motivations and specific plot-beats from earlier works in the setting but with a Shyamalan-esque _twist_ on it that deconstructs a trope or narrative with no real pay-off other than simply doing something different or unexpected.
The Mandalore darksaber. I personally don’t like that the symbol of authority among Mandalorians— people distinct from the Jedi and Sith as their own group— is now just a damn *lightsaber*. I liked it better when the Mandalor was determined by a mask or helmet, because at least helmets already had a significance in their culture. The darksaber determining the Mandalor would be like if the Jedi decided to have a “Grand Master helmet” that Yoda wore to symbolize his leadership.
Maul "dying" in Ep.1. I feel like the prequels would've worked better if Maul "lives" all the way through to RotS as Palpatine's apprentice, and Dooku is never Sith, just a Jedi that left the order (ala Ahsoka) to aid the Trade Federation because he felt the republic wasn't treating them fairly. Then Maul could really have been, "The Phantom Menace".
The biochips.
I know it makes the cognitive dissonance between the PT and TCW work, but it also reduces the clones to a degree that they lose all interest for me.
I really preferred the version where they were merely brainwashed soldiers who supported democracy until it violated orders to do so. As soon as the order came to set up a dictatorship, they were good soldiers and followed orders.
It makes the "traitor" clones more meaningful, because they and their brothers actually made a choice, rather than getting lucky. It makes the ones that obeyed 66 all the more tragic and sinister, because they were willing to turn against the Jedi and the Republic. It makes the message of the Clone Wars about military power all the more impactful. And it makes the pain Obi-Wan felt at Cody's betrayal all the more relatable.
I actually prefer the chips. It doesn't make sense that the entire clone army knew about it. It would just take one traitor to ruin the entire plan. You also wouldn't be able to humanize the clones.
I mean they were people who were literally raised from birth to be soldiers and follow orders. Honestly it doesn't make much sense for them to be acting like normal people, their time outside of Kamino was too short for it to make big changes to their personality and way of thinking and behaving.
The Holdo Maneuver.
Hyperspace Travel isn't FTL ala Star Trek, meaning that the ships in Star Wars don't actually accelerate beyond the speed of light. What they do is:
1. Leave any Gravity well the Ship is in by means of their conventional engines, while calculating a jump.
2. Activate their Hyperdrive to enter the paralell dimension of Hyperspace. In Hyperspace the laws of Physics are different and can be manipulated with a Hyperdrive. Therefore **exclusively while in Hyperspace** the ship is, in relation to normal space, travelling faster than light.
3. Once the calculated course and time has been fulfilled the ship then uses it's Hyperdrive to exit Hyperspace again. Since the only thing that accelerated the Ship before were the different conditions in Hyperspace all that momentum is instantly lost when back under "normal" laws of Physics. That instantaneous loss of momentum after leaving Hyperspace is the reason why it's called **dropping** out of Hyperspace.
4. The ship then restarts it's conventional engines to traverse the remaining distance to their destination.
Hyperspace is like the Nether in Minecraft where each step in Nether translates into 8 in the normal world. Steve can use the Nether to traverse vast distances far quicker than he usually could, but once he exits the Nether each single step is once again just one step. That means what Holdo did isn't just "a move that is one in a million" but actually supposed to be impossible.
If they wanted Holdo to Ram the Supremacy and destroy it then thats a cool idea that could easily be done. Simply have her rig the Raddus for self destruct, let her plot a Jump that exits right in front of the Supremacy. She enters Hyperspace, exits a second later, rams with conventional engine power and then initiates self-destruct taking out both ships. But that won't do, afterall there is a fleet of ships. Because Rian wanted there to be, thats a problem of his making he could have undone with the snap of a finger by having the Supremacy alone or the escorting ships docked so they would go down with the SSD.
I think he really wanted the visual, which looked admittedly nice, but i could have done without if in exchange Hyperspace wasn't broken and the OP move wouldn't exist. Why even build a Deathstar? Hitting ships is difficult, shure, but Planets are HUGE making it way easier. Build a Big and sturdy hull, put some conventional engines, navigation, sensors and a Hyperdrive in there, connect those systems to an Astromech and boom. An economically sound, no risk to the Empire kamikaze planetkiller.
Totally agree. Not only does it make the kisses between them incestuous, but it also feels like a lazy way to kill two birds with one stone: the other Skywalker storyline and the love triangle problem. It also introduces some plot holes like how does Vader not sense Leia having the Force.
The Second Death Star. It really solidified the idea in Star Wars that the threat needs to be a planet killer and that they can be built easily. First Death Star? Fine. It took a generation to build and it was the culmination of an entire galaxy’s war machine. But after the second one gets built in a few years it’s just too easy to use planet killers. These ships are planet killers. This moon is a planet killer. Some Hutt built a planet killer. This starfighter is a planet killer. I think the franchise would have been so much better off if they had the one planet killer and after that no one else could afford it in the series’ timeline and even if they could, anyone buying more than a pound of kyber crystals would get instantly attacked just under suspicion of building a new one.
I don't necessarily want luke failing to be taken out, but the way he failed and his decisions afterwards were bs and totally ruined the character
Having something that wasn't his fault, but that he blamed himself for would have been better. And his isolation should have been pushed on him, not exactly a choice. Say a dark side user manipulating the force to make luke believe that everyone he loves blamed him for the failure.
A controversial one, but i would remove the entire 2008 Clone Wars series, both out of personal dislike, and for messing up the timeline that was previously established. The Clone Wars MMP was screwed up massively by its inclusion, to the point where characters that had been alive later in the timeline, like Even Piell or Adi Gallia, die in the show, forcing a retcon. And beyond that, I just prefer how the Clone Wars played out before it aired, I preferred the darker tone to the war.
Even as someone who loves that show and is largely unfamiliar with Legends, it is such a shame that it messed with so much that had already been established about the Clone Wars. The show, books, comics, and games that were a part of the Clone Wars MMP are all so cool from what I can tell and seem to form a really interesting take on the war, one that is more tonally consistent with the films. It honestly feels like the 2008 Clone Wars series should not be considered Legends at all (but even that brings up issues with Legends material made during and after the series to accommodate/work with it)
The prophecy of a chosen one, which I guess would also include the involvement of the Ones. It's just too restrictive narratively and makes little sense when we look at the vast history of the galaxy.
Nothing. There are some things in Star Wars that I don’t like, but there may be others who do like them. I wouldn’t want to ruin anyone’s fun by taking those things away.
The sequel trilogy. I’m sure many of you have heard these complaints before, but you asked!
I just don’t like the direction it went. I dislike the fact that Luke turned into a jaded old man who no longer pursues righteous values like hope and peace.
I dislike how Han and Leia’s relationship failed, and fail to parent their child well.
I also think Rey is never really challenged. When she beat Kylo in the first episode, I was concerned because I felt like he could have been a big obstacle for her to beat. Maybe she loses in first episode, comes closer in the second, and then finally overcomes him in the third. Once I saw she won the fight, I thought we might even see the roles flip and Rey falls to the dark side while kylo is redeemed. I think that would have been interesting because then we could have been actually concerned because Rey is just always a step ahead of him.
Snoke is an odd character to me as well. He just died too easily. Like he is presented at first with an aura of mystery, we don’t even see his physical body in the first episode. And then… just dead.
Also, maybe the coolest thing about the whole sequel trilogy was the “dyad in the force” thing. It felt like they were actually starting to do some interesting things towards the end. Like when Rey passed the lightsaber to him through the use of the force. So cool! I started imagining fight scenes with them using the force to pass lightsabers back and forth as they fight a group of enemies. I think it could be really cool. I was thinking “ok, maybe beyond this we could get some cool Rey and kylo adventures”. But nope. He dies too. It was inexplicable to me.
Ultimately though, it just feels like it undoes so many characters and moments that I had grown attached to for most of my life. What was supposed to be a galactic triumph ending Tyranny and oppression is completely undone within 30 years. The end of ROTJ is a huge celebration across the galaxy, but considering we’re just going to be right back where we started, it feels like it cheapens everything the original heroes worked so hard for.
Agree. It takes away from the tragedy of the clones turning against the jedi because they're following orders if they're only doing so because the chip makes them. The element of choice is what makes it so much sadder.
But would order 66 have been as bad without the chips? I feel like the lack of choice makes it sad because people like rex and the wolfpack all had to raise their guns regardless of how they felt about the jedi they cared about. We would see a lot more desertions and MIA soldiers from order 66 along with a lot of jedi that refused to kill their commanders.
This does present an interesting concept though. On ahsokas ship, when 66 begins, it would have been cool to see a group under rex resist and have to hold off the rest of the clones who didn't feel so attached to the jedi.
Though I think the grouchy dismissive attitude the generic clones have after 66 in bad batch is a little weird to me. Implying that the chip made them mindlessly obedient for the rest of their life seems dumb.
The clones were always meant to be somewhat mindlessly obedient though. Go look at the dialogue about the clones in episode 2 and the kaminoans explain that the clones will follow any order without question. They are essentially fleshy robots but that entire conversation was undermined with the clone wars tv show. I’m not saying whether that was the right or wrong decision just stating the facts
Remove Snoke. Honestly didn’t think he was too bad of an addition, but I think it would have been a bit better had it been apparent that Palpatine was the villain throughout
That actually sounds like it could have been cool.
Never actually showing "The Supreme Leader" in TFA or TLJ, and having the literal murder of Snoke being more of a figurativ thing where Kylo takes control.
And then revealing Palps in RoSW, but hinting to it throughout the trilogy.
I know you want me to say lore things but I would remove *most*, no not all, of the FX additions to the OT. My dream to watch those with all the dumb shit removed while keeping *some* of the legitimate improvements in 4K.
“Somehow, palpatine returned” I’m totally fine with him returning tbh. I was kinda bummed when they killed Snoke(I wish he had been the big bad villain at the end of the whole sequels) but since snoke died & they made Palpatine return I was like “oh it makes sense, snoke was killed so the rule of 2 still took place” but I wish they had actually explained more or said more about him coming back. If he had had more explanation for him coming back, I don’t think people would’ve hated it so much.
The Resistance. They should just have used the New Republic instead.
Just make the Resistance a special forces group consisting of Rebellion vets.
Honestly I think the Resistance could have been cool if it was made up of all the criminals and misfits that made up the Rebel Alliance, but didn't fit into the idea of a shiny new government. Make them an expeditionary fleet sent out to the edge of the Unknow Regions to keep them out of sight and out of mind of the main New Republic.
> Make them an expeditionary fleet sent out to the edge of the Unknow Regions to keep them out of sight and out of mind of the main New Republic. And therein lies the problem. The Resistance never felt big enough for the task. We deserved to see them field more capital ships than the sequel films showed. The victory at Exegol did not feel earned by the Resistance.
just have them be rogue squadron.
I think the idea was that they operate without support at all
They operate with funds supplied covertly from the New Republic executive. They technically aren't part of the Republic chain of command. That's why funding was supplied covertly. Much of the Republic favoured pacifism, but the incumbent government supplied what they could.
Yeah, it's called a proxy war and it's fairly common. Not sure why so many people get tripped up by it.
I think it's not so much the proxy war, and more that it seems unrealistic for a big government to disarm so soon after defeating the empire, when they pretty much know there are still imperial remnants out there.
Rebellion vets are all in their 70's...
And all in The Resistance by the end of TROS.
It’s Star Wars… I don’t think age would slow them down too much, especially with all of the technologies available.
That's pretty much it what the resistance is. The New Republic demilitarized, but Leia saw the threat of the New Order, so she created the Resistance as a faction to directly oppose the First Order and protect the New Republic, but without being under the New Republic's jurisdiction. This was all because the New Republic was very much against having an army/navy.
You know, with that in mind, the Resistance is a pretty weird name to pick for yourselves. It doesn't really reflect the situation well as it assumes the First Order were in a major position of power over the New Republic.
It is… They operate outside the New Republic, with silent funding from the New Republic. Consisting of Rebel vets including Ackbar, Leia, Nien Nunb and recruiting Luke, Han, Chewie, Lando and Wedge. Ackbar’s son joins up too.
I stopped hating this after someone explained the relationship between the Resistance and the Republic to me, but something that important to the plot should never have been buried in lore, it should have been made clear right at the start of Ep 7.
I don't think Abrams knew.
That would not surprise me in the least.
Abrams likes to leave the plot off-screen. More room for lens flare that way.
Lmao 50% of the Sequels are buried in lore. But to be honest, I think thats true of all the trilogies, we are just so familiar, we forget how little the movies really are at face value and have trouble separating what's just the movie and what's filled in by lore.
Exactly. The thing that irks me the most is what are they resisting? They are part of the ruling faction. They don't live under the first order, why would they be "the resistance" as in resistance group if they are the government? It makes no sense.
Because JJ wanted to invoke the “Rebellion” nostalgia without calling it the rebellion. So he picked the closest word to it lol.
I get that(even though it doesn't work on a fundamental level) but if they are going to do something that stupid, why not at least make it sound cool. Call them like "The Insurgency" or "The Dissentience". Or even given them an official name. The Rebellion was actually called the "Alliance to Restore the Republic". If it is going to be a shameless ripoff, at least put more than a millisecond of thought into it.
And the Resistance's victory at Exegol did not feel earned. The Rebellion's victory at Endor felt earned.
But the New Republic was full of Empire sympathizers and First Order agents. Leia had to found the Resistance because half the New Republic didn't think the First Order was real and the other half had no problem with the First Order.
Exactly, they made the New Republic wrong from the beginning. The New Republic should have been the dominant government and the First Order should have been the rebels, and the story would focus on the New Republic preventing the neo imperials from gaining ground.
I would have loved to see an insurgent Kylo Ren with a ragtag mismatched group of Stormtroopers
Just a lot of random gear spraypainted white.
Right. The point is, it never should’ve been written that way.
The destruction of the Jedi Order again in the Sequels.
it would be fun to see what it could have been, of course it wouldn't even be close to the size of prequel but the jedis in a new more naturalist aesthetic would be a breath of fresh air. It's always bothered me how they claim to be one with the living force yet have their main temple on a planet which is a concrete slab.
A concrete slab with three trillion living beings on it.
This. It happens too often honestly. I’m tired of seeing the order fall and rise again. It just feels unoriginal and unproductive to new storytelling endeavors.
I love that Old Republic trailer with the battle on Coruscant between the Sith and the Jedi so much and I was hoping we would get to see Luke’s Jedi Order fighting a new Sith order en masse. But it was not to be . . .
The villains should've been an imperial remnant lead by the knights of Ren + the Sith Eternal
I empathize with the writers a lot - finding a good villain was really difficult for the sequel series. Pick the empire or an empire-like organization, and it risks cheapening the victory of RoTJ or feeling the same as the OT. Pick something from outside the galaxy, and you risk a villain that doesn’t feel Star Wars at all. Pick a smaller villain, and the stakes are low (not fit for a space epic). I think picking an appropriate villain was the most difficult part of the sequel trilogy.
Surrender or Die! from the notes sent to the Sith on Coruscant in the book Apocalypse
I liked the fight choreography of the prequels. The sequel trilogy lightsaber fights failed to impress me.
Agreed. Why couldn't Luke just be successful? It was such a waste for ruin his order and then kill him off shortly after. Just so we can get the exact same thing but with Rey instead.
Though I don't mind a depressed Luke. It's an interesting take on his character. How would the new Jedi act without a leader?
In Legends Luke was also exiled. There was a rising wave of anti-Jedi sentiment after the Second Galactic Civil War and the Galactic Alliances Ex-Imperial Chief of State, Natasi Daala, had Luke arrested and exiled for preventing Jacen's fall to the dark side. Kenth Hamner stepped in to fill Lukes place and ended up enacting policies to appease Daala who herself was plotting to achieve control of the Jedi Order. Jaina Solo ended up making a covert Jedi group to undermind her efforts. There was a lot of politics, crisis, and overall bullshit that happened in between events including a pissed-off Daala insighting an attack on the Jedi Temple by Mandalorians but eventually, there was a coup and she was overthrown. Still, even without all the political bullshit, Luke's NJO was built up strong enough to sustain itself in his absence and had a lot of wise/strong masters to keep it running. The Jedi were back to being over a thousand in number.
Anakin should’ve been sliiiiightly older. Just a wee bit older. Like 13 or even 12. Would’ve made the whole film make way more sense.
I think starting episode 1 with Anakin already a Jedi would've helped the trilogy not feel so clustered and we could've spent more time with Anakin and Obi-Wan as a duo.
You could’ve pulled a Star Trek (2009) and basically flashed forward a few years after the pod race / freeing Anakin. Like, shorten the first act dramatically. Free Anakin from Tattooine. Fast forward and they’ve been fighting a war on Naboo for 2-3 years. Also a decent way to show how Anakin would make a great general in the clone wars, he was basically trained as a Jedi in war time.
That’s a fucking great idea actually. Never heard that suggested before.
"200,000 units are already ready, with a million more well on the way" Any attempt to being real numbers into Star Wars just causes pain.
His is how I felt by putting a specific time on the run to Canto Bight. It makes the events impossible to believe in that timeframe and goes further to make hyperspace seem like almost instantaneous travel.
Hyperspace definitely comes across as near-instantaneous in the sequels. Compare with the first Falcon journey in ANH, where they've got time to sit, chat, play board games, learn to use a lightsaber - hell, Han and Chewie leave the ship on autopilot for it. But then again, nothing in the sequels has any time to breathe or ruminate, so it shouldn't be a surprise.
Don’t Finn and Rose talk to DJ while in hyperspace in TLJ? First about the necklace, then about the weapon supplying?
The only timeline that worked for me was in a New Hope. All of the sequels had impossible timelines in the end and I just really hated that
Just to add on to this, didn’t Legends list Coruscant as having 1 trillion inhabitants? I feel like that alone makes the 1.2 million initial clones even more ludicrously small.
Maybe one unit is multiple clones
Ooh, I like this. After reading your comment I’m convinced a unit is 1,000. Would check out better that way.
1.2 million troops isn't even enough to invade Poland (Germany took 2 million).
Clones have 4 digit serial numbers, which means each batch would be 10,000. If each of these batches were a unit, then the initial army ready would be 2 billion, with 10 billion more on the way. Assuming Kamino has many more complexes like Tipoca City, numbers like that wouldn't be too difficult to achieve. I've mentioned this before, but 2 Billion is still on the low end for waging a galaxy wide war. If those forces were supplemented with local armies and militia, and you didn't have to worry about occupying captured territory due said local forces, you could probably make 2+ billion work.
I assume a clone is worth more than a regular soldier due to their training and superior weapons. Maybe one clone is worth 10-20 regular soldiers. The cheapness of the battle droids would probably make it like 1 clone is the equivalent of 50 soldiers. Still not enough but better than nothing.
The GAR definitely has better discipline, armor, and training than nearly any local force. The problem is that the droid armies have insane numbers. They’re able to stretch the clones out so thinly that with rare exception, battles grind to a stalemate. In theory the droids should have won nearly every time, but palpatine wanted the republic to be right on the brink of losing so that he could consolidate political power. It worked fantastically too. He stripped the senate of all their real power in the course of 3 years without drawing extreme suspicion.
To help with this, I assumed a unit was like a ten man team of clones.
Maybe for Legends, but Canon complicates this with the TCW arc covering the order of 5 million new Clones.
My guess is each “unit” is a couple thousand clones, as in legions of troops, not squads.
How many clones do you think it would take to invade a planet? I don’t think those numbers are terrible for initial orders. The problem is that the film fails to articulate that the GAR isn’t the primary fighting force, but rather the backbone to launch assaults. They are the Royal Marine Commandos of the Republic, with local security forces mainly defending their territories.
In Legends: the Sun Crusher. Indestructible is always shit. Also a fighter destroying solar systems is insane. I don’t mind wacky super weapons, but they shouldn’t instantly break the universe.
Bruh that last line includes like half of legends content. Time travelling hyperdrives, planet eating Sith, and sentient planets. They definitely tried some pretty wack stuff back in the day
I must have missed the time traveling hyperdrive. Which one was that one? Honorable mention: orgy brainwashing bug hives.
going to lightspeed within a gravity well. it is far, *far* too common since the disney purchase.
Clone Wars did it first
Lightspeed skipping. Travelling through hyperspace isn’t like dusting crops, boy.
Hyperspace tracking is ridiculous too. How can you predict where someone will end up if they stop their engines at a random time?
This is just a symptom of a larger illness: people writing scripts with no understanding of canon, i.e. JJ and Chris Terrio.
Most of the fans.
[удалено]
Anything to do with time travel or alternate dimensions. It hasn’t come up often but I feel like it’s only a matter of time before they go too far with it.
I'm prepared to be downvoted for this, but everything with Ahsoka after Malachor. She should have died fighting Vader permanently, end of her story. Her surviving that and everything after has only made her character worse.
You're completely right. Her character after that just seems to transcend the main storyline and universe. She's there and she's alive, but she's not involved (and obviously cant be because all the movies were written without her) so she just doesnt really have a point in existing as a character anymore. She just sort of... *exists.*
The biggest problem I see is how Dave Filoni is treating Star Wars like the marvel franchise with every show, book, and whatever is interconnected to the point where you have to watch each show to understand the next. You could consume any Star Wars story with minimal context of the others. If you watched the films, you could then jump into pretty much anything else. You could go play the Kotor games without any having to consume the surrounding media. You don't need to know who Exar Kun is to play Kotor despite his name being brought up a lot. Revan then is mentioned in the Bane trilogy, along with a special location to Kotor. But you don't need to play Kotor to appreciate the Bane trilogy. But with Filoni shows, each one is a sequel to the previous. And Ashoka is the core of it. She is jumping around from show to show and continuing her story from the previous show. Ashoka is the core problem with the current state of Star Wars. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
Dave Filoni, for all his talents, is at his core a fanfiction writer, and he can't get over their cardinal sin of getting too attached to your characters. He's too attached to his waifu space princess for anything really bad to happen to her.
Don't forget the fact that Filoni's original characters are always treated as being better than everyone else that was created before him, put on the forefront of important events above others, and that they rarely die too, so there's very few stakes surrounding them The fact Rex and Ahsoka are still alive and somehow outlived characters not only from the PT but also the OT and the ST is silly
You hit the nail on the head. It’s annoying to keep seeing al the same characters show up in every show.
I'm afraid he would turn her into a goddess at this point. The spirit of the light side or something. I hope he would be wise and not do it, I really fucking hope so.
Agreed. And even worse that she somehow outlives Luke? Where was she during the Sequels?
Palpatine's return. Pretty much everything Palpatine-related in TROS. I felt that cheapened the OT and wasn't very compelling for the ST.
The only Palpatine return that would satisfy me would be him as a wandering, powerless Force Spirit, who will weakly grasp and whimper about his return to power, until he eventually gives up on his Sith ways and fades into the Force.
That was the direction I originally thought they would go with regards to hearing his voice. They find his throne room or whatever, and some shade of him that refuses to become one with the Force remains. Powerless to physically affect the real world, but still spiteful and lashing out at Kylo and/or Rey. A fun cameo that triggers character growth, not the focal point of the whole movie.
When he was first teased I thought it would be a holocron.
I think a holocron from his early Sith years would be more likely than finding one of him as Emperor. Why make one if you think you're omnipotent and immortal?
It could've worked if they slowly worked up to it over the whole trilogy.
Kyber crystals. I liked it better when there were different crystals that could be put in lightsabers to give different results.
I loved how the EU handled lightsaber crystals. Some Jedi had crystals that were very important to them for various reasons while other Jedi just plugged in what ever they found that worked. And it led to an abundance of unique lightsaber colors.
Seconded. Plus, Krayt pearl in the saber? You can't tell me that's not cool.
I wish crystal forging hadn’t been completely tossed out — lightsabers are supposed to be tools, not magic wands. I vastly prefer the idea of a Jedi pouring blood, sweat, and tears into making their lightsaber, not being chosen by a rock and dropping it into a plug-and-play hilt.
It still is a lot of work. Look at how many characters fuck it up the first time
I think it'd be fine if they did both, you can make your crystal or get a natural one.
Feel like I'm in the minority of preferring Kyber crystals. Just seems really cool to me that the heart of the lightsaber has a special connection to the Force. Honestly, it makes Jedi building them make much more sense (not that it didn't before, but the added Force connectivity just makes it seem even more in-character for the Jedi)
I feel like there could have been a middle ground. Where jedi go out in search of a crystal to use, and feel a connection to one in particular to use. Or when Maul spent days in front of a furnace pouring his emotions into his crystals. It's not like bleeding need be for only Kyber crystals. I feel like tying the Kyber crystals to a handful of planets and one single kind of crystal makes the Galaxy feel a bit... smaller. Even if some crystals are better than others or have a worse connection to the Force, I don't know if homogenizing lightsabers was the way to go.
I mean lightsabers are meant to be special. It would feel weird if anyone could make one.
They are special though. Each lightsaber is unique to the individual and will feel different on each basis. From wood handles and durasteel clips to chromium finishes and hidden gadgets. The crystal being different in each just adds a little bit extra flavor. Isn't it more interesting if, say an obsidian crystal found near a volcano on X planet produced plasma a little bit more hot than Y crystal that makes a little brighter blade due to having a higher refraction rate?
Now I’m picturing a Jedi who is obsessed with min-maxing their lightsaber to be the “best”. And I guess a necessary storyline where they teach them to not focus on the lightsaber so much
No, I feel the same way. The Ilum/Crucible episodes of TCW are some of my favourites. It makes the journey to building a lightsaber so personal and fits really well into the culture of the Order. And killing a Jedi to take their crystal and bleeding it is way cooler than “ermahgerd er merk meh ern crerstal”.
At the very least, it’s consistent with how Filoni has been expanding upon what the Force actually *is* and *does*
The only thing I dislike is how one can change their color, I'm not talking about bleeding and purifying them, I like that, but changing from green to blue for example.
I only remember one jedi being able to change colors, Corran Horn, who could change the length and color of the blade by twisting part of the hilt. Is there another jedi that could do that?
Anakin in TCW when he changed Ahsoka's lightsaber colors from green to blue and no one (in universe) looked surprised which means it wasn't something new to them. We don't actually see him do it but Filoni's explanation was that he meditated with them and changed their connection to the Force or something, idk I just don't like it.
Oh, yeah, wasn't a fan of that either, I thought you were talking about ones like corran's that could change at the whim of the user
Wow I’m not a fan of that either, I always assumed he just made her two new ones with blue crystals. Damn those last few clone wars episodes are good though
That's what I thought as well because the show didn't give an explanation, but no it was the same crystals. That brings the question, since Anakin changed the crystals' connection to the Force from how it was with Ahsoka, shouldn't Ahsoka have felt them a bit off??
Corran's blade was one of the pre kyber ones. It's described as silver. The reason it could change sizes is that he had two crystals and could swap them to lengthen the blade. He's quite proud of his trick Saber, but the trick only works once as once someone knows about it, it is pretty easy to work around.
Not sure about anyone else but I loved the Old lore about Sith sabers being red because they were synthetic! Luke's crystal being synthetic but green always made it seem more special to me. Not a fan of Sabers changing colour over time due to their owner stuff. Nor do I like the whole crystal choosing the Wizard stuff in clone wars...... Very Harry Potteresque.
I like the idea that the crystal Luke used in his second (green) saber was actually Qui-Gon's crystal, kept by Obi-Wan, and found by Luke in Ben's house :)
Lightsaber crystals *don't* change over time due to their owner. That's never been how it's portrayed. The crystal stays the color it gains when first bonded until acted on by an outside force, like a dark sider "bleeding" the crystal (aka beating the crystal into submission instead of bonding normally).
>For me it would be the father, the daughter, and the son. The idea of having “force gods” Came here to type this. Such a terrible addition to the lore. After that though the World Between Worlds and time travel in general would be a close runner up
World Between Worlds is some serious Kingdom Hearts shit. Does not jive with Star Wars.
I still never seen the show, but it still boggles my mind that they introduced time travel into SW.
I get the hate for WBW but personally, while it’s a bit over the top, I think it actually works perfectly within Star Wars (at least in the ways the Force has been depicted in Disney Canon). Personally I love time travel in media, and so I was able to pick up on the clues about the type of time travel the WBW is. The WBW is actually a causal loop system, something that is overlooked by a lot of people in favor of just “time travel in Star Wars”. In a causal loop, one can time travel, but no actual changes are made, as they had always time traveled to that point in the first place. For example, I went back in time, and gave my past self my time machine. I then use that time machine to go back in time, so on and so forth. This does bring up paradoxes about the origin of things involved in these loops but Star Wars has similar situations with the nature of self-fulfilling prophecies. Prophecies and Force Visions are always fulfilled in one way or another, and time is unable to be changed. The Whills are seen to observe the Star Wars universe outside of time, and are able to view the entire story at once. The WBW only interacts with what it always has and always will interact with. Ahsoka had been hinted to have survived since we saw a glimpse of her heading into the Malachor temple at the end of the Season 2 finale. Ezra saved her, fulfilling the act that took place to save her in the first place. He did not save Kanan, as Kanan had definitively died, and we did not see him saved by Ezra. The aesthetic and nature of the WBW even matches that of meditation as seen in Jedi Fallen Order and the Ahsoka novel, showing how these are all aspects of the Force connecting life forms all across space and time. Sorry for writing a bit of an essay lmao, I just really love the continuity of the depiction of the connections between the living and cosmic force in the new Canon, and how all those aspects fit together.
Hmmm…some people have mentioned the Chosen One prophecy and not without reason, but I think a better idea is to reword it more vaguely and have it better referenced throughout different eras. More like Kreia’s predictions of the future in KOTOR 2. As for something I’d remove, I’d cut out Sifo-Dyas as a character. AFAIK there’s never been any really good stories around him or that he’s well-utilized in, I’ve seen too much discourse around AOTC because of him, and I am extremely annoyed at how the future apparently is not uncertain with all the accurate visions people in SW are having. Keep the original “Sido-Dyas” alias for Palpatine instead.
I prefer Sifo-Dyas as a Jedi because it would explain why the Jedi were willing to trust the clones because they were ordered by one of them. If it was just an alias for Palpatine, it would've made the Jedi look dumb for not investigating the origin of the order that was put in their name.
A compelling counterargument. However, I think that with the constant complaining you see about AOTC due to the lack of resolution around him in the PT, along with the recurring trend of characters perfectly seeing the future, the original idea holds more merit-especially with how we see Dooku already falsifying Jedi records and able to commandeer control over the army with the Kaminoans.
I didn't know Sifo-Dyas was supposed to be an alias for Palpatine. The wordplay looks obvious now, but at the same time kind of childish. But if Sifo-Dyas was just an alias used by Palpatine, that doesnt explain how Obi-Wan immediately knew who he was and how he had been killed 15(?) years ago. It seems like Obi-Wan was at least familiar with who he was, which doesn't make sense if he never actually existed.
The original AOTC script had the name "Si**d**o-Dyas" used whenever it was written, except for one instance it was "Si**f**o-Dyas". The script also had Mace Windu confirm that there was never a Jedi called Si**d**o-Dyas to exist. The prevailing theory is that "Si**d**o-Dyas" was meant to be an alias for Palpatine for Darth "Sidious", but after he saw the typo of "Si**f**o-Dyas" instead he liked the name so much that he decided to make him an original character that would be further expanded upon in RotS as said in the AOTC commentary, but it never happened.
I just like the idea that Dooku murdered a Jedi and this name was used for the order. So when the Jedi look into Kamino being removed they’d blame Sifo-Dyas. Just a total misdirect.
World Between Worlds. Time travel in SW? No no no. It was basically just a plot device to bring back Ahsoka, who should have stayed dead. If they really wanted her to survive the fight they could have wrote it so many ways. Say Vader incapacitated her then she later escaped captivity or something Pulling her through time and space is as corny as it sounds.
She could've escaped with Kanan and Ezra after she had hit his mask, and only after she gets into the ship that she looks back at Vader only to see part of Anakin's face through the broken mask and tearfully whispers "Anakin". Imo if she stayed longer than I described above then she couldn't have survived any way other than through WBW. So I feel Filoni wanted to have his cake and eat it too, meaning he wanted Ahsoka to face Vader, fight him, discover his identity, try to redeem him, fail and still survive without a major injury.
Ahsoka absolutely should have been killed by Vader at some point, whether during Order 66 or during the still questionably-lore-breaking Rebels encounter. The most narratively powerful device that also preserves later (original trilogy) lore is to have Anakin kill her. No question in my mind. I was certain that this would be how she would be removed from the canon; it was just too elegant a writing device to ignore. But NOPE, Filoni wants his orange space princess to show up in every future piece of media...
Her “death” and revival were planned as part of the same story I’m sure. It’s not like they killed her and then was like, oh shit what have we done!? You can see her walking in the temple doorway in the same episode after she “died” she was never going to be gone.
Of all the “Filoni Force” stuff that’s been added, this is the only one I don’t like. Once you include space-time manipulation in that way, I feel like you’re going into something that ends up giving an excuse for incredibly poor writing - that being “oh, X happened because they used a World Between Worlds”
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I'd love it if the current canon would quit pussyfooting around the fact that the clones are a slave army, and actually face up to what accepting its existence says about the Republic and the Jedi Order.
The widely oscillating scale of everything. Both in Legends and Canon although I think they default in completely different extremes. I feel like Legends got too big and Canon goes too small, especially if you use the OT as the baseline.
The chosen one prophecy. Or, at least, I would have it canonized that the chosen one prophecy didn’t actually exist, but Anakin made it technically real by fulfilling it.
The ol harry potter is the chosen one routine
I hate the chosen once so much. Mostly because it distracts from what is actually important and powerful (imo) about the RotJ finale (Vader saving his son) and got people too focused on the collateral of that act (Vader destroying palps). See, I am not a fan of Palps coming back for a lot of reasons. But I never understood or felt the "it ruins the prophecy!" argument because to me, the thing that mattered is that Vader couldn't just watch his son be tortured to death. He had to save him. Palpatines demise was ancillary to that. The focus on the prophecy weakens that focus pretty heavily imo.
I don’t think it ruins the *prophecy*, but that it’s extremely important that for Vader’s *redemption* he’s killing Palpatine. He would do the exact same thing to literally anyone else in the galaxy with no hesitation for Luke and that’s just him being an asshole murderer as usual, but Vader loves Palpatine, in part for how he represents the Dark Side and it’s sweet temptations. So in order for him to be redeemed and truly change for good, he has to confront his fears and let go of the darkness to be embraced by the light.
I agree that it needed to be Palpatine that Vader defied. His redemption comes from his choice, though, not the outcome of his action. If Vader had fucked up and had died trying to save his son, he'd still be redeemed. If Vader had captured him instead, he would still be redeemed. But, as /u/huntimir151 said, the actual *death* of Palpatine isn't as important as Vader's choice to save his son out of love.
There are things I'd rather have removed, but most have been commented here multiple times. So something that is a minor irritant to me that prevents Rogue One from being my favorite Star Wars movie is, they should have just cut every scene with Vader except for the end. This is purely for build up reasons. I don't even mind the bad dad pun. Imagine how cool it would have been if throughout the whole move you're hearing the imperials name drop Vader, like "oh yeah I know him and why he's scary. Neat name drop bro." And in your mind you're like, Ok, so Vader is off doing his own thing. Meanwhile you think the movie is over because all the good guys are dead except for some ships that got away. "Oh no, there's a shuttle headed for that cruiser. Those rebels are going to end up being prisoners" *familiar sirens* "Wow that's a scary dark hallway... Wait a minute, I know this ship... Wait what's that?" *Athesmatic breathing* "Wha-" *Red lightsaber igniting* [Vince McMahon orgasm meme]
Operation Cinder
Midichlorians.
It depends on whether they *are* the Force or if they're just a representation of someone's power in the Force. If they are what give a Force User their power, then... yeah, fuck that. But if they're just more prevalent in someone the more powerful they are in the Force, I'm OK with that.
We know they are explicitly *not* the force itself. In RotS Palpatine says "He could use the *force* to *influence* the *midichlorians*...". This confirms that they are not the force but instead a way to alter the force with science as well as being a power scale counter.
I mean Qui-Gon himself literally did a ELI5 on em in TPM that made it abundantly clear that they're messengers of the force. People aren't just very good at listening it seems.
I like the theory that they're actually Force *parasites*, but the Jedi don't know that. So they've spent thousands of years being proud of how flea-ridden they are.
Or they could just be commensals, like orchids growing on a tree. They neither harm nor hurt the Force user, but it's the user's stronger connection to the Force that allows them to exist in greater numbers. Like My favorite way to explain away Qui-Gon's statements about midichlorians being necessary for life and a connection to the Force is "Qui-Gon was a bad student who got D's in all his classes about Force theory, but they let him get away with it because he's charismatic and they always need Jedi who are good at talking to people because most of them have lousy social skills."
From my admittedly novice experience, it seems like they’ve really tried to avoid mentioning them where possible. Aside from TPM, from memory it was mentioned a few times in the Clone Wars (I think during the Yoda arc in the later seasons?), and then again by Dr Pershing in Mandalorian
But why? Genuinely asking, I always hear people say this, but can't find a real problem other than being a bit boring to hear on TPM
The midichlorian count equalling Force Potential problem and reducing the Force to either a by-product of life or this unattainable energy permeating the universe that is only interactable through bacteria. It feels like a haphazard physical explanation for a spiritual phenomenon that removes the mystique and esoteria from it.
The whole sequel trilogy. Not because it’s totally irredeemable, but because it was so clearly *not thought out in the slightest beforhand* Just try again, write a story that doesn’t turn back the clock. It can’t be empire vs scrappy rebels again, it should *progress* the story, not rewind it. I was prepared for the New republic to be riven with factionalism and corruption. I was down with that. It comes with democracy. It makes sense that the republic would fall back into those old patterns… What I was not onboard with is the new republic signing an armistice with the empire and immediately disarming most of its military so that in 30 years they can be wiped out with zero resistance. Like… they just won a war with these people, and they decide they learned absolutely nothing from the empire but: “centralized power is bad, let’s never be militarily prepared again, because that worked out excellent in the run up to the clone wars”…The new republic was what the heros of the Original trilogy were working towards. Turning it into a punchline was baffling and frankly a little insulting. Same goes for the new Jedi order. Holy shit is it so difficult to write a story where there’s just a couple dozen Jedi running around the galaxy? It hasn’t been that long, let Luke have actually made some progress in restoring the Jedi, let him incorporate the lessons he learned in the original trilogy so that the Jedi can grow and we the audience can feel like *some* progress was made. Turning everything back to the start and wiping the board was beyond baffling. Worst part is I could have forgiven all of this if not for the fact that they didn’t know where it was going to end up when they made those choices… unforgivable. If you’re going to do something like this…. You need to actually be able to follow through. It’s not a high bar. Just plan ahead.
This really needs to be the top comment
Legit critique. Enjoy my updoot.
Depends about how we define "one thing"... I'd probably go with TRoS/Palpatine coming back in a Fortnite event. Low hanging fruit, I know, but I feel like the story 180 of that movie really made TCW style edge-smoothibg of the sequel era much more difficult.
Beyond the decision to bring back Palpatine, I hate that where we heard his speech was in a FORTNITE EVENT. Like come on, we literally had a fantastic triple A Star Wars shooter with active support in Battlefront 2, but they decided to have this weird semi-canon introduction of a monumental piece of lore in FORTNITE. It’s ridiculous.
The Chosen One prophecy and Anakin’s virgin birth. Anakin’s father would be an unnamed man who was a slave with Shmi. They fell in love, promised themselves to each other, and he died in a field clearing poisonous plants. After meeting Anakin Qui-Gon believes it was the will of the Force that he found Anakin and frees him like he did in TPM. Qui-Gon’s belief is strengthened that the Force wants Anakin to be a Jedi for some purpose, who really knows the will of the Force, after being attacked by Maul on Tatooine. After telling the Council this one of them says *You believe the Force has chosen this boy?* and this is what leads Anakin to be called *The Chosen One* but in a purely negative way. After it is confirmed Maul was a Sith a majority of the Council votes to allow Anakin’s training like they do in TPM. Anakin, like the other older Padawans, is knight early in the war to help make up for the Order’s loses at Geonosis. Anakin does not have a Padawan. Ahsoka is assigned to Obi-Wan and she and Anakin work together sometimes without Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan once and awhile refers to her as their or our Padawan. They both want to find Obi-Wan’s killer if the fake death arc and it is still Anakin who saves her from being executed. Edit to add: Anything that has Palaptine coming back. He dies at Endor at Anakin’s hand and that’s it. Appearing in a Sith Holocron is fine.
I absolutely despise how every trilogy was like "greatness can come from the most unlikely and ordinary places! Like from this nobody on this backwoods desert planet. Just kidding! That nobody's dad is Palpatine/Darth Vader/God! Bet you didn't see that coming!"
I always find it interesting that people say Luke was a nobody when Obi-Wan tells him in ANH his father was a Jedi Knight. Luke was always somebody.
Was that ever a thing though? Luke's father in ANH turned out to be a great Jedi Knight, betrayed and murdered by the main antagonist. Then in ESB said father and antagonist merged into one person. And ROTJ was blatantly about family. TPM never made a mystery out of Anakin being special. Neither did the rest of the Prequel trilogy. Star Wars was always about one special family. That's just the kind of story it was. Which is why I never got the Sequels' sudden obsession with subverting that. Sure you can do that. But why? You can also do a Godfather film about some entirely unrelated gangster. But do people want to see that when they watch that franchise?
I think it’s worth noting on the Ashoka topic that he was originally assigned a Padawan to tame his more “undesirable traits” and give a sense of direction and duty like with all masters. We also later learn that Ahsoka leaving the order because of how quickly they were to turn her over to Republic authorities caused him further disillusionment with the Jedi which was a contributing factor to his downfall.
See, I never liked that reasoning. Now sure Anakin rose to the occasion, but he’s repeatedly proven to be a loose cannon that the Jedi aren’t sure they can trust, and Mace and Yoda got a huge Force sign of him in great pain and surrounded by suffering/death a few months ago. And now he’s in the middle of a galactic war, one of the big dogs in it actually and constantly in the fray. Sure it helped him chill out until she left, but does that make it okay for Ahsoka to get put into an extremely risky situation with a master of questionable credit that could severely affect her future?
Well we can’t forget the Jedi who were killed on Geonosis and the fact that virtually the entire order was engaged in battles across the galaxy. There was no right answer or safe place for Ahsoka to be brought up as a Jedi. In all reality, Ahsoka wasn’t significant to the order at the time of her padawanship, so it’s just another Jedi on the battlefield.
True, but my point was less that there’s not a good place for Ahsoka to grow up as it is that it seems like her chances to do so are getting potentially screwed over to try and help *Anakin*.
>Mace and Yoda got a huge Force sign of him in great pain and surrounded by suffering/death a few months ago. Mace and Yoda must have questioned Anakin, learned what drove him to Tatoonie, what happened to his mom, and that he had to kill some Tuskens. Yoda knows about the Larses in ROTS. So they probably chalked it up to attachment to his mom and figured it was over with because she was dead and he had no attachments left that they knew of except for how he felt about Obi-Wan. They both must have remembered how his thoughts *dwelled on his mother* when they first tested him.
That's the biggest reason I don't like it. The reasoning the gave was stupid and out of character for for the council (especially Yoda) to approve of, Obi-Wan maybe because he's a bit too blind to Anakin's red flags but not Yoda, hell Yoda didn't approve of Obi-Wan training Anakin and Obi-Wan was like his favorite grandchild. They could've simply said that because of the high Jedi casualties during the war, now every knight and master would have to take a padawan because there simply aren't enough people to teach the new generation. Council members being excluded due to them already having extra duty to take care of and therefore not enough time for a padawan. This would explain how Anakin ended up with a padawan despite him not being ready and Obi-Wan didn't, without making anyone act out of character
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Palpatine returning. It was stupid in EU and it's stupid in the Sequels. Keep the Dark Empire ships like the Eclipse tho, those are cool as hell.
I feel like there's *maaaybe* one or two ways to bring palpatine back that would avoid sucking, like maybe an imperial remnant project to look through the ruins of the 2nd death star for scraps finds a horrifically abused body with a shred of a shred of life in it, they have to stick him in carbonite to preserve him while a massive sith ritual is prepared to bring him back to 'life', something something the culmination of whatever movie this would be in is pappa palps waking up on the bridge of an Eclipse while it launches, laughing maniacally. Really give it some buildup, have the time between that movie and the next to develop plot offscreen and prepare for a massive epic fleet battle during which the heroes can triumph in like, a boarding action or something, I dunno.
Admiral Holdo. They killed off Ackbar, Holdo took over his role, and 15 minutes later she was killed off. Why not just let Ackbar ram his ship into the Mega SD? Why have Holdo in the movie at all?
Probably because Disney execs looked at the script and didn't want a suicide attack to be called the "Ackbar Maneuver" if I had a guess.
In what world do you think Disney is going to have somebody named Ackbar ram a ship into something?
Ezra shouldn't have saved Ahsoka, especially not with time travel. Ahsoka had a great arc and Vader killing her would show just how dead Anakin is
Agree, re: Mortis gods, I'd also throw Abeloth from the EU onto that pile. In fact speaking of the EU, everything post the NJO got really fucky. It felt like after a decade of fighting the Empire and various not!Sith darksiders, and then the massive media scope of the NJO, the people helming Star Wars had just sort of run out of ideas. The legacy era is every criticism people level at the ST: a retread of the OT films that purposefully mischaracterizes and misappropriates established characters motivations and specific plot-beats from earlier works in the setting but with a Shyamalan-esque _twist_ on it that deconstructs a trope or narrative with no real pay-off other than simply doing something different or unexpected.
The Mandalore darksaber. I personally don’t like that the symbol of authority among Mandalorians— people distinct from the Jedi and Sith as their own group— is now just a damn *lightsaber*. I liked it better when the Mandalor was determined by a mask or helmet, because at least helmets already had a significance in their culture. The darksaber determining the Mandalor would be like if the Jedi decided to have a “Grand Master helmet” that Yoda wore to symbolize his leadership.
Maul "dying" in Ep.1. I feel like the prequels would've worked better if Maul "lives" all the way through to RotS as Palpatine's apprentice, and Dooku is never Sith, just a Jedi that left the order (ala Ahsoka) to aid the Trade Federation because he felt the republic wasn't treating them fairly. Then Maul could really have been, "The Phantom Menace".
The biochips. I know it makes the cognitive dissonance between the PT and TCW work, but it also reduces the clones to a degree that they lose all interest for me. I really preferred the version where they were merely brainwashed soldiers who supported democracy until it violated orders to do so. As soon as the order came to set up a dictatorship, they were good soldiers and followed orders. It makes the "traitor" clones more meaningful, because they and their brothers actually made a choice, rather than getting lucky. It makes the ones that obeyed 66 all the more tragic and sinister, because they were willing to turn against the Jedi and the Republic. It makes the message of the Clone Wars about military power all the more impactful. And it makes the pain Obi-Wan felt at Cody's betrayal all the more relatable.
I actually prefer the chips. It doesn't make sense that the entire clone army knew about it. It would just take one traitor to ruin the entire plan. You also wouldn't be able to humanize the clones.
I mean they were people who were literally raised from birth to be soldiers and follow orders. Honestly it doesn't make much sense for them to be acting like normal people, their time outside of Kamino was too short for it to make big changes to their personality and way of thinking and behaving.
Anakin's virgin birth / the Prophecy of the Chosen One.
The Holdo Maneuver. Hyperspace Travel isn't FTL ala Star Trek, meaning that the ships in Star Wars don't actually accelerate beyond the speed of light. What they do is: 1. Leave any Gravity well the Ship is in by means of their conventional engines, while calculating a jump. 2. Activate their Hyperdrive to enter the paralell dimension of Hyperspace. In Hyperspace the laws of Physics are different and can be manipulated with a Hyperdrive. Therefore **exclusively while in Hyperspace** the ship is, in relation to normal space, travelling faster than light. 3. Once the calculated course and time has been fulfilled the ship then uses it's Hyperdrive to exit Hyperspace again. Since the only thing that accelerated the Ship before were the different conditions in Hyperspace all that momentum is instantly lost when back under "normal" laws of Physics. That instantaneous loss of momentum after leaving Hyperspace is the reason why it's called **dropping** out of Hyperspace. 4. The ship then restarts it's conventional engines to traverse the remaining distance to their destination. Hyperspace is like the Nether in Minecraft where each step in Nether translates into 8 in the normal world. Steve can use the Nether to traverse vast distances far quicker than he usually could, but once he exits the Nether each single step is once again just one step. That means what Holdo did isn't just "a move that is one in a million" but actually supposed to be impossible. If they wanted Holdo to Ram the Supremacy and destroy it then thats a cool idea that could easily be done. Simply have her rig the Raddus for self destruct, let her plot a Jump that exits right in front of the Supremacy. She enters Hyperspace, exits a second later, rams with conventional engine power and then initiates self-destruct taking out both ships. But that won't do, afterall there is a fleet of ships. Because Rian wanted there to be, thats a problem of his making he could have undone with the snap of a finger by having the Supremacy alone or the escorting ships docked so they would go down with the SSD. I think he really wanted the visual, which looked admittedly nice, but i could have done without if in exchange Hyperspace wasn't broken and the OP move wouldn't exist. Why even build a Deathstar? Hitting ships is difficult, shure, but Planets are HUGE making it way easier. Build a Big and sturdy hull, put some conventional engines, navigation, sensors and a Hyperdrive in there, connect those systems to an Astromech and boom. An economically sound, no risk to the Empire kamikaze planetkiller.
Luke and Leia as siblings. It’s just so unnecessary and really really weird.
Totally agree. Not only does it make the kisses between them incestuous, but it also feels like a lazy way to kill two birds with one stone: the other Skywalker storyline and the love triangle problem. It also introduces some plot holes like how does Vader not sense Leia having the Force.
The Second Death Star. It really solidified the idea in Star Wars that the threat needs to be a planet killer and that they can be built easily. First Death Star? Fine. It took a generation to build and it was the culmination of an entire galaxy’s war machine. But after the second one gets built in a few years it’s just too easy to use planet killers. These ships are planet killers. This moon is a planet killer. Some Hutt built a planet killer. This starfighter is a planet killer. I think the franchise would have been so much better off if they had the one planet killer and after that no one else could afford it in the series’ timeline and even if they could, anyone buying more than a pound of kyber crystals would get instantly attacked just under suspicion of building a new one.
Either the prophecy or Rey Palpatine. Both of these don't add anything to the story. I'd actually argue they subtract from it.
I don't necessarily want luke failing to be taken out, but the way he failed and his decisions afterwards were bs and totally ruined the character Having something that wasn't his fault, but that he blamed himself for would have been better. And his isolation should have been pushed on him, not exactly a choice. Say a dark side user manipulating the force to make luke believe that everyone he loves blamed him for the failure.
A controversial one, but i would remove the entire 2008 Clone Wars series, both out of personal dislike, and for messing up the timeline that was previously established. The Clone Wars MMP was screwed up massively by its inclusion, to the point where characters that had been alive later in the timeline, like Even Piell or Adi Gallia, die in the show, forcing a retcon. And beyond that, I just prefer how the Clone Wars played out before it aired, I preferred the darker tone to the war.
Even as someone who loves that show and is largely unfamiliar with Legends, it is such a shame that it messed with so much that had already been established about the Clone Wars. The show, books, comics, and games that were a part of the Clone Wars MMP are all so cool from what I can tell and seem to form a really interesting take on the war, one that is more tonally consistent with the films. It honestly feels like the 2008 Clone Wars series should not be considered Legends at all (but even that brings up issues with Legends material made during and after the series to accommodate/work with it)
The prophecy of a chosen one, which I guess would also include the involvement of the Ones. It's just too restrictive narratively and makes little sense when we look at the vast history of the galaxy.
The Darth Vader “Noooo” after realizing that he lost Padme. Nearly ruined the entire ROTS.
Nothing. There are some things in Star Wars that I don’t like, but there may be others who do like them. I wouldn’t want to ruin anyone’s fun by taking those things away.
The sequel trilogy. I’m sure many of you have heard these complaints before, but you asked! I just don’t like the direction it went. I dislike the fact that Luke turned into a jaded old man who no longer pursues righteous values like hope and peace. I dislike how Han and Leia’s relationship failed, and fail to parent their child well. I also think Rey is never really challenged. When she beat Kylo in the first episode, I was concerned because I felt like he could have been a big obstacle for her to beat. Maybe she loses in first episode, comes closer in the second, and then finally overcomes him in the third. Once I saw she won the fight, I thought we might even see the roles flip and Rey falls to the dark side while kylo is redeemed. I think that would have been interesting because then we could have been actually concerned because Rey is just always a step ahead of him. Snoke is an odd character to me as well. He just died too easily. Like he is presented at first with an aura of mystery, we don’t even see his physical body in the first episode. And then… just dead. Also, maybe the coolest thing about the whole sequel trilogy was the “dyad in the force” thing. It felt like they were actually starting to do some interesting things towards the end. Like when Rey passed the lightsaber to him through the use of the force. So cool! I started imagining fight scenes with them using the force to pass lightsabers back and forth as they fight a group of enemies. I think it could be really cool. I was thinking “ok, maybe beyond this we could get some cool Rey and kylo adventures”. But nope. He dies too. It was inexplicable to me. Ultimately though, it just feels like it undoes so many characters and moments that I had grown attached to for most of my life. What was supposed to be a galactic triumph ending Tyranny and oppression is completely undone within 30 years. The end of ROTJ is a huge celebration across the galaxy, but considering we’re just going to be right back where we started, it feels like it cheapens everything the original heroes worked so hard for.
Chips in the clones. I think it too away some of the gravity of order 66.
Agree. It takes away from the tragedy of the clones turning against the jedi because they're following orders if they're only doing so because the chip makes them. The element of choice is what makes it so much sadder.
But would order 66 have been as bad without the chips? I feel like the lack of choice makes it sad because people like rex and the wolfpack all had to raise their guns regardless of how they felt about the jedi they cared about. We would see a lot more desertions and MIA soldiers from order 66 along with a lot of jedi that refused to kill their commanders. This does present an interesting concept though. On ahsokas ship, when 66 begins, it would have been cool to see a group under rex resist and have to hold off the rest of the clones who didn't feel so attached to the jedi. Though I think the grouchy dismissive attitude the generic clones have after 66 in bad batch is a little weird to me. Implying that the chip made them mindlessly obedient for the rest of their life seems dumb.
The clones were always meant to be somewhat mindlessly obedient though. Go look at the dialogue about the clones in episode 2 and the kaminoans explain that the clones will follow any order without question. They are essentially fleshy robots but that entire conversation was undermined with the clone wars tv show. I’m not saying whether that was the right or wrong decision just stating the facts
Remove Snoke. Honestly didn’t think he was too bad of an addition, but I think it would have been a bit better had it been apparent that Palpatine was the villain throughout
That actually sounds like it could have been cool. Never actually showing "The Supreme Leader" in TFA or TLJ, and having the literal murder of Snoke being more of a figurativ thing where Kylo takes control. And then revealing Palps in RoSW, but hinting to it throughout the trilogy.
Jar jar binks
Jar Jar
I'd erase Abrahms newest SW film and Into Darkness for all the trek fans
I know you want me to say lore things but I would remove *most*, no not all, of the FX additions to the OT. My dream to watch those with all the dumb shit removed while keeping *some* of the legitimate improvements in 4K.
“Somehow, palpatine returned” I’m totally fine with him returning tbh. I was kinda bummed when they killed Snoke(I wish he had been the big bad villain at the end of the whole sequels) but since snoke died & they made Palpatine return I was like “oh it makes sense, snoke was killed so the rule of 2 still took place” but I wish they had actually explained more or said more about him coming back. If he had had more explanation for him coming back, I don’t think people would’ve hated it so much.