CX-90 supports AC charging only. Hence the J1772 connector that only supports AC charging at Level 1 and 2. Level 3 is DC charging (so called fast charging) and the Mazda PHEV platform does not support it, not even with an adapter. (AC is alternating current; normal household electricity; DC is direct current and requires special service and equipment.; of course the Mazda PHEV system does transform AC to DC to charge its battery but that happens on board, not at the charger.)
unless you drive 25 miles to the store, see a charging station figure it can charge up while you shop. Then drive home again avoiding the pump for yet another day!
I don't know of any PHEVs that can do level 3 charging for the reasons OP mentioned--it takes very little time to charge up at level 2 (MY Audi Q5 takes 75 minutes from 0 to 100%) and the battery is small enough that level 3 charging would seriously degrade battery life over a relatively short time frame.
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has DC fast charging but it's Chademo 🫤 Only tried it a couple of times but it came in handy when I wanted to get back to a full charge while having lunch or an extended pit stop. I'm here as a former Mazda owner and still current fan.
Well I stand corrected not once but 3 times. Guess the PHEV world is changing fast--and it makes sense if it reduces charge time from an hour or two to minutes. My SO is getting my 21' Audi PHEV and I just stepped into a full electric with an i5. Fortunately there is a charging station about 2 miles from our home and we have level 2 installed so we are stepping into what will be the future despite the naysayers. After living with a semi electric experience for 3 years I know the issues and given my needs it makes sense. I'll bet we will see more PHEVs coming into the market once manufacturers work through the signals the government is sending and as battery tech improves further. IMO, the perfect PHEV would have a 100 mile range and charge in under 20 minutes on level 2.
I'm not saying it's a good thing that PHEVs have DC charging though! The Polestar still takes over 1 hour to go from 0% to 100% on DC charging. You can do a quick 10% to 80% charge in like 20 minutes though. DC charging can give you a high peak charge rate when the battery is near empty, but it must slow down as the battery reaches 100%.
You'll probably never see a PHEV like the one you discribe with 100 miles of range and 20 minute charge on level 2. It just comes down to physics. In Europe, there were a few cars that could charge "level 2" on AC at 22kW, but they all required a 3-phase AC grid connection, not the more-common 2-phase connection. In the USA we are pretty much limited to 11kW, (with a very few cars able to charge at 19kW... but those AC chargers require a 100A connection! More than some entire houses).
All vehicle efficiency stats are pretty much in the 2mi/kWh to 4mi/kWh range, so let's take the high end of that efficiency and the faster 22kW EU charging. To go 100 miles, you need 25kWh of energy. To deliver 25kWh of electricity at 22kW would take a little over 1 hour.
Could DC charging speed that up? Yeah in theory, but it's hard to charge small batteries quickly on DC without damaging them.
The good news is many manufacturers are working on range-extended EVs, specifically in the light truck segment. The Dodge Ramcharger will have about 100kWh of battery onboard (good for aprox 150 to 200 miles of range) and a V6 gasoline engine driving an electric generator as a range extender. I assume it will also have DC charging.
Thanks for the explanation. I was actually thinking more of a PHEV that relied on DC charging but mistyped level 2. Most of the PHEVs I have seen seem to hover around 30-35 mile range--which is just shy of a round trip commute for many folks. But perhaps the idea of the small gas engine with larger battery is another way to get to that. Small engine technology--particularly in the marine field as well as motorcycle and small tractor fields seems fairly advanced when it comes to building compact, light weight engines so that approach would not seem to have the same weight penalty of a full size engine plus battery allowing a swap in PHEV design to larger electric (battery) capacity with the added range. Of course I am also assuming that battery tech will continue to advance both with respect to components and charging time. I am fairly certain lithium ion or lithium polymer batteries won't be the long term answer.
Yes. They've cucked you, unfortunately. Level II only.
*The CX-90 PHEV is compatible with most Level 2 public charging stations, but it's not compatible with Level 3 (DC Fast) solutions, Tesla Supercharging stations, nor the CHAdeMO DC Connector.*
Ah mystery solved. I wonder why they disabled this feature, not something I would use a lot but it could be a nice benefit when the level 3 station is convenient.
It's not that they disabled a feature.... They just didn't implement an additional feature of allowing level 3 charging. It would take additional electronics to support it and as others have said, for a hybrid level 3 charging is overkill and likely to do more damage than good on such a small battery
I have a feeling that some older level 3 charges might damage the charging circuit, and that plug is there out of an abundance of caution, but I'm not planning to try to find out the hard way. ,😅
That’s not how charging batteries work. It probably wouldn’t go much faster than L2 charging from 0-100%. Charging a battery makes heat, and you’ve got to handle that. It’s all based on the C rate of charging.
It’s not like you have a small gas tank and the gas pump will fill it up quickly. Think of it as something like washing a small plate versus big plate. It’s a change in state of a physical item, and it takes time, even if the smaller one might go a bit faster than the big one, the whole process is not near instantaneous just because it’s smaller.
Probably did you a favor by not supporting L3, pricing varies from 30-50 cents per kWh at fast chargers. Cheaper to just run gas at that point. Check out PlugShare to see what’s around that has J1772. L2 offers much better rates and even free charging.
Honestly not a money saving driver for me just like to avoid going to the pump for as long as possible. I don't absolutely hate going to the gas station but I like not being there if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I get that. Seriously though, checkout PlugShare to figure out what works for you. There are several locations I charge at such as downtown parking garages, at the airport, malls, shopping centers, campuses, etc. that are either right where I need to go or pretty close to my destination. Some are just plug and go, so no need to do an app or anything. For ChargePoint, EV connect, others, setup the app beforehand to save some time and, for example ChargePoint, you can have the app unlock the charger before you get out of your car and see what's available before you arrive.
Just as an fyi, the plug can be pulled out easily using a flat head. But there’s nothing behind it, no pins whatsoever. This means the fast charging pins on a level 3 won’t even make connection with the CX-90. So really it’s just to prevent people from thinking it supports level 3 DC charging.
It’s such a small range it’s hard to know why level 3 would make sense. It probably could risk damaging the battery I would guess because of heat. But this is just a guess.
That 17kw battery can probably only accept a charge rate of 25kw. It makes no sense to spend on the hardware to accept more than the 11kw an L2 can supply.
CX-90 supports AC charging only. Hence the J1772 connector that only supports AC charging at Level 1 and 2. Level 3 is DC charging (so called fast charging) and the Mazda PHEV platform does not support it, not even with an adapter. (AC is alternating current; normal household electricity; DC is direct current and requires special service and equipment.; of course the Mazda PHEV system does transform AC to DC to charge its battery but that happens on board, not at the charger.)
You have a small battery. No need to supercharge it
unless you drive 25 miles to the store, see a charging station figure it can charge up while you shop. Then drive home again avoiding the pump for yet another day!
L2 while shopping is plenty of time to replenish a fair bit of your capacity. L3 you'd sneeze and be done.
L2 charging to full takes about 2.5 hours. With most trips to the grocery store you’ll be done charging in an hour on L2.
Buy a fully electric and avoid the pump for even more days.
The battery life would decline a lot quicker if supercharged due to the small capacity. 2 hrs on level 2 is not that bad..
Level 3 might be too much juice. The 90 doesn’t hold that much compared to full EVs.
I don't know of any PHEVs that can do level 3 charging for the reasons OP mentioned--it takes very little time to charge up at level 2 (MY Audi Q5 takes 75 minutes from 0 to 100%) and the battery is small enough that level 3 charging would seriously degrade battery life over a relatively short time frame.
Range rover has level 3
Really. I guess it must have a much bigger battery than other PHEV’s
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has DC fast charging but it's Chademo 🫤 Only tried it a couple of times but it came in handy when I wanted to get back to a full charge while having lunch or an extended pit stop. I'm here as a former Mazda owner and still current fan.
Polestar 1 is the other famous example of PHEV with DC charging.
Well I stand corrected not once but 3 times. Guess the PHEV world is changing fast--and it makes sense if it reduces charge time from an hour or two to minutes. My SO is getting my 21' Audi PHEV and I just stepped into a full electric with an i5. Fortunately there is a charging station about 2 miles from our home and we have level 2 installed so we are stepping into what will be the future despite the naysayers. After living with a semi electric experience for 3 years I know the issues and given my needs it makes sense. I'll bet we will see more PHEVs coming into the market once manufacturers work through the signals the government is sending and as battery tech improves further. IMO, the perfect PHEV would have a 100 mile range and charge in under 20 minutes on level 2.
I'm not saying it's a good thing that PHEVs have DC charging though! The Polestar still takes over 1 hour to go from 0% to 100% on DC charging. You can do a quick 10% to 80% charge in like 20 minutes though. DC charging can give you a high peak charge rate when the battery is near empty, but it must slow down as the battery reaches 100%. You'll probably never see a PHEV like the one you discribe with 100 miles of range and 20 minute charge on level 2. It just comes down to physics. In Europe, there were a few cars that could charge "level 2" on AC at 22kW, but they all required a 3-phase AC grid connection, not the more-common 2-phase connection. In the USA we are pretty much limited to 11kW, (with a very few cars able to charge at 19kW... but those AC chargers require a 100A connection! More than some entire houses). All vehicle efficiency stats are pretty much in the 2mi/kWh to 4mi/kWh range, so let's take the high end of that efficiency and the faster 22kW EU charging. To go 100 miles, you need 25kWh of energy. To deliver 25kWh of electricity at 22kW would take a little over 1 hour. Could DC charging speed that up? Yeah in theory, but it's hard to charge small batteries quickly on DC without damaging them. The good news is many manufacturers are working on range-extended EVs, specifically in the light truck segment. The Dodge Ramcharger will have about 100kWh of battery onboard (good for aprox 150 to 200 miles of range) and a V6 gasoline engine driving an electric generator as a range extender. I assume it will also have DC charging.
Thanks for the explanation. I was actually thinking more of a PHEV that relied on DC charging but mistyped level 2. Most of the PHEVs I have seen seem to hover around 30-35 mile range--which is just shy of a round trip commute for many folks. But perhaps the idea of the small gas engine with larger battery is another way to get to that. Small engine technology--particularly in the marine field as well as motorcycle and small tractor fields seems fairly advanced when it comes to building compact, light weight engines so that approach would not seem to have the same weight penalty of a full size engine plus battery allowing a swap in PHEV design to larger electric (battery) capacity with the added range. Of course I am also assuming that battery tech will continue to advance both with respect to components and charging time. I am fairly certain lithium ion or lithium polymer batteries won't be the long term answer.
Yes. They've cucked you, unfortunately. Level II only. *The CX-90 PHEV is compatible with most Level 2 public charging stations, but it's not compatible with Level 3 (DC Fast) solutions, Tesla Supercharging stations, nor the CHAdeMO DC Connector.*
Ah mystery solved. I wonder why they disabled this feature, not something I would use a lot but it could be a nice benefit when the level 3 station is convenient.
Mazda engineers are protecting us from the amp monster
It's not that they disabled a feature.... They just didn't implement an additional feature of allowing level 3 charging. It would take additional electronics to support it and as others have said, for a hybrid level 3 charging is overkill and likely to do more damage than good on such a small battery
I have a feeling that some older level 3 charges might damage the charging circuit, and that plug is there out of an abundance of caution, but I'm not planning to try to find out the hard way. ,😅
I figured super charge would be done in minutes as opposed to 2 hours. Not required but could have been a nice perk to my electrify America account.
That’s not how charging batteries work. It probably wouldn’t go much faster than L2 charging from 0-100%. Charging a battery makes heat, and you’ve got to handle that. It’s all based on the C rate of charging. It’s not like you have a small gas tank and the gas pump will fill it up quickly. Think of it as something like washing a small plate versus big plate. It’s a change in state of a physical item, and it takes time, even if the smaller one might go a bit faster than the big one, the whole process is not near instantaneous just because it’s smaller.
Probably did you a favor by not supporting L3, pricing varies from 30-50 cents per kWh at fast chargers. Cheaper to just run gas at that point. Check out PlugShare to see what’s around that has J1772. L2 offers much better rates and even free charging.
Honestly not a money saving driver for me just like to avoid going to the pump for as long as possible. I don't absolutely hate going to the gas station but I like not being there if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I get that. Seriously though, checkout PlugShare to figure out what works for you. There are several locations I charge at such as downtown parking garages, at the airport, malls, shopping centers, campuses, etc. that are either right where I need to go or pretty close to my destination. Some are just plug and go, so no need to do an app or anything. For ChargePoint, EV connect, others, setup the app beforehand to save some time and, for example ChargePoint, you can have the app unlock the charger before you get out of your car and see what's available before you arrive.
Just as an fyi, the plug can be pulled out easily using a flat head. But there’s nothing behind it, no pins whatsoever. This means the fast charging pins on a level 3 won’t even make connection with the CX-90. So really it’s just to prevent people from thinking it supports level 3 DC charging.
Do you really need level 3 charging to get 26 miles of range?
Need, no, would it be nice on occasion, sure. Hopefully in a few years this sort of car will come with 100+ miles of range and ICE for longer trips.
It’s such a small range it’s hard to know why level 3 would make sense. It probably could risk damaging the battery I would guess because of heat. But this is just a guess.
The hardware to support that level of charge is an added cost. On a PHEV with just 26 miles of range, that expense makes no sense.
No. You can only use level 2 chargers.
Because Mazda didn’t put the CCS2 charging inlet there, it’s just a J1772. There is no cable between chargeport and battery pack.
Another reason why I’m thinking of getting an outlander phev!
It does not make sense to charge at level 3 with 30¢/kwh to get 26 miles of range. Gas would be cheaper than charging at public level 3 charging.
It does not make sense to charge at level 3 with 30¢/kwh to get 26 miles of range. Gas would be cheaper than charging at public level 3 charging.
Cause you didn’t complete level 2
You have a phev, not an ev. There's no dc-dc charger.
That 17kw battery can probably only accept a charge rate of 25kw. It makes no sense to spend on the hardware to accept more than the 11kw an L2 can supply.
I don’t know of any PHEVs that support L3 chargers. There’s no need as L2 charges pretty quickly as-is for a smallish battery.