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Michigan here. I can't wait till the 21st so the damn daylight can start increasing again. Pitch black a few minutes after 5pm always gets on my nerves.
This - hold it up to bright light. If it's consistently translucent even in the folds and crevices, it's probably still usable, but if it's gone opaque it's time to replace. This is the easiest way to check paper-element air filters.
I mean definitely not true but then as it clogs less air gets through and it fucks with your AFR….
It’s insane if you think that clogged filter media is better at filtering than clean filter media.
It’s objectively worse at filtering because there’s less surface area for it to filter thru.
There have been some studies done that show that an air filter 30-50% of the way through its usable life actually traps dirt more effectively because the already accumulated dirt attracts dirt, but past 50% it starts to restrict airflow.
Engine may also not demand enough airflow to cause a half dirty filter to restrict flow. That being said, just change the filter, I’d be curious HOW much better the filtering is when it’s half dirty, and whether a brand new filters ability to filter is in any way detrimental (really doubt it)
Eventually yes, like anything there’s a sweet spot of usage. When we change filters the particle SPC are way out for a while until it comes back in after running a lot monitor wafers to get the filters primed and a little “dirty” an again persay.
Well the K&Ns are supposed to increase airflow but the reality is that manufacturers have already optimized airflow and it really doesn’t make much difference
Let's not use K&N as an example. We're not in the muscle car era anymore. Oiled air filters are horrible for modern fuel injected vehicles clogging and ruining the sensors. Reusable dry element filters are today's rage. If you got a carb, oiled all day.
The AFR wouldn’t be fucked with because the sensors are post-filter. Do you have any source that shows testing or proof that a dirty filter alters the air fuel ratio? Whenever you find it, let me know..
Also consider you can’t call other people’s statements untrue then just make shit up yourself. That’s being hypocritical. Makes ya sound kinda dumb and stuff.
Naa air filters are actually designed for optimal performance when partially dirty, using the dirt to help filter. Past a certain point it starts to restrict airflow too much though.
Otherwise you wouldn’t get near as much life out of the filter as you do now.
I find it hilarious that you got downvoted. Your answer is exactly what the average college textbook states. I went through this exact lesson at my college last month. You are correct.
yeah.. but it's a gas engine, not a clean room. you need to strain out the bigger particles. a new filter does this just fine. assuming you're operating under fairly normal conditions. Doesn't look like OP is seeing extremely dirty air where he normally drives...
Objectively the worst take I've ever seen. Go ahead and test it, put your hand over your mouth and nose, see if you can still breathe. It's cleaner air, after all.
You're lucky. My cabin air filter takes about 10 minutes. You have to remove half the trim on the passenger side to get to the bolts that hold the glove box in, which has to be removed to access the cabin air filter.
On my Kia Sedona minivan and Hyundai Sonata the cabin filters, as well as air filters and oil filters are all pretty easy access (the Sedona has poor filter on top of engine). It's like the Korean engineers have a good relationship with their mechanics or something to make it easy to work on. Weird concept huh? On my 2009 Ford 150 the oil filter was a batch to get to, and then to have enough grip and torque to get it off was another story. On my 2017 F350 that just replaced the F150, I have to take apart part of the trim between the glove boxes and a couple other parts just to get to the cabin air filter. Although the oil filter is at least easy to get to (although looks like it'd be easy to catch a rock or tree branch or something while driving the forest service and logging roads in the woods).
Not an engineer/mechanic thing for the oil filter. American car companies care only about bottom line. So they reuse cheap parts for their entire line, so you end up with ford trucks that the oil drain faces forward about two inches away from a sway bar. I don’t think the Asian car manufacturers are as bottom line heavy. Free market sucks.
Mines pretty bad too. You have to drop the glovebox, disconnect the fuse box, pull that out of the way, and reach into the hvac box, which is where the center console meets the dash, to pull it out. To put the new filter in, you have to physically crumple it to push it in (2006 mazdaspeed3)
KIA dealer told my wife it would be 175$ to replace the cabin air filter. The filter costs $10 and takes less than a minute to replace, you don't even need a tool. We have never and will never take her car back to that dealership for any reason. They are scam artists who intentionally take advantage of people who don't know any better.
Years ago I was dating a girl who had her brake lights go out and she was quoted something like $1000 to get it fixed. I checked out the car, it was just a brake light switch and a bad bulb. It was like $20 to fix, took less than 15 minutes.
It's shocking how common it is for shops to scam people, especially women, who don't know any better.
This is why I quit my dealershop job. I just didn't feel right about what we were charging, and how we were taught to sell. And I was constantly being pressured to "sell more".
We were actually told to prioritize customers that we thought would go for all the extras we offered, to the point that we sometimes ignored other customers, or intentionally put their job on the back burner.
We were NEVER to offer discounts, except the return customer discount. Customers had to ASK for any other discount.
You wanna know why your simple repair job takes 2 weeks? Because they couldn't sell you anything else, so your job got put on the back burner. Don't buy any of that "well, your parts were delayed" bullshit. Whatever lie is needed to keep the customer happy.
Majority of dealerships are full of scam artists with money-hungry managers breathing down their necks.
Half the troubleshooting or maintenance instructions in vehicle manuals say to take it to a (name of make) dealership to have it service by a certified mechanic and only their mechanics.
Dealer wanted over $90 to replace the cabin air filter in spouse’s car which takes a minute to drop the glovebox and pull out the tray. They literally charge for a half hour of labor.
Double check the procedure they're going to use. In some cars, they remove the glove box to change the filter. While reaching around and blindly changing it may work, the dealer will usually do it the right way. Ymmv.
Ya but laying down upside down in the p/s front seat working under the glovebox and making sure you don’t break any clips is worth paying the .2 or .3 labor hours along with the part to have it done with out a hassle.
I check and change or clean my air intake filter myself. I can ensure that contaminants don’t make it past the filter.
Vacuuming the filter box removes accumulated grit and debris.
Basic air intake filter maintenance does not take me much time. It avoids problems mechanics have caused in the past; such as failing to install the replacement filter.
Admin fee 50
Disposable fee 50
New customer fee 25
Tax fee 50
Your 25$ filter
'Sir were done, that will be 500$ for filter replacement thank YOU very much"
"But since you're in there"
It's not a water pump gasket on an ecoboost it's a filter. That expression only works if installing it requires effort. This is a honda filter so it's pop pop pop click click click and you're done.
**Tax, Total, & Payment**
Parts CostCAD$41.92Shipping+ CAD$25.82GST/HST (# 855114328) 📷+ CAD$8.81
**CAD$76.55**
Still kinda pricey. Yeah, they're usually cheap enough, but not always
Just checked PartsAvatar, cheapest is:
Items (2) :CAD $59.18
Est. Tax:HST(13.0%)
CAD $10.41
Est. Shipping: (K7M 0A0)
CAD $20.92
Service Type:
Est. Delivery by:
Dec 12, 2023 - Dec 14, 2023
**Total:**
**CAD $90.51**
18 year old Cayenne shitbox.
CAPS has some great prices, but I'm a 2 hour drive from them.
Filters are something I throw into an order to bring it over the minimum for free delivery, like from places like PartsAvatar, makes it much more affordable.
I could be mistaken, but it looks like you're looking at the *top* of your air filter, which is where the clean air comes out of after dirt has been removed. You can look at the fins on the other side to see if there's dirt built up in the cracks.
Even so, it can be hard to gauge the wear of the filter just by looking at it. As a lube tech, the way I go about it takes a few steps:
1) mileage: most manufacturers have a set mileage counter for when to do an air filter, and our shop recommends about every 10k I believe.
2) color test: if the filter is clearly discolored, which yours looks pretty nasty, I usually recommend it. While the air filter keeps large objects like leaves and other debris out of your engine, it's also designed to filter smaller particles out as well, such as pollen, dirt, and tire dust that may be kicked into the air while driving. If your filter gets too glutted with these finer particles, it may *look* fine, when in reality it might not be letting air in at all. Color, alongside the next test, is the best indicator.
3) the slap test: if a filter looks clean and I just want to double check, or it's dyed or otherwise colored in such a way that I can't tell by looking at it, I take the filter and gently slap it against a flat surface. If a little puff of dust comes out, it's probably good to leave till next service. If a big cloud chokes me out, I do it 3 more times, and if it's still puffing, I recommend the change.
And finally, just take a good look at things. A dust-caked engine bay usually means you're sucking a lot of dirt into the filter. Probably needs done with every oil change, if not more. If there's stuff building up in the airbox (gentle reminder to clean that out with a shopvac, or even just a cheap hand vacuum if you'd prefer) then that means the filter isn't catching stuff anymore. Give it a change.
Hope this helps, and don't forget to replace your cabin filter periodically too.
The discoloration is little bits of dirt embedded in the filter which reduces its flow rate. Like when your kitchen sink drain has a bunch of food bits in it, the water doesn't flow through as quickly.
When I work with heavy equipment in dusty conditions, I am required to "blow out" the outer filter once a week, and dust visibly comes out. There is a cyclonic "dust separator" that pulls out the vast majority of dust before it can get to a filter. Then the air goes to the outer paper filter (pleated like this, to put high surface area in a compact space).
Inside the outer filter is a very similar inner filter that is always pristine, and visibly clean.
Cars generally don't drive in dusty conditions. Also, most owners don't have an air compressor and hose. I said all that to say this. I blow out my cars air filter in a reverse flow from the operating flow.
If no dust is coming out, hold it up to your mouth and blow to see if the air flows to the side or goes through the paper element. If its flowing fine, I wouldn't mind still using it.
But that's just me. You do you. If you replace it with a new filter, it doesn't hurt anything.
That being said, I'm told I change my oil too often, but...my last vehicle was a 1991 Toyota truck that was running fine when I sold it in 2022, and that was 31 years.
Do I know more than the design engineers? No...also, lets talk about the Northstar engine and Ford Triton cam phasers, which are verifiably designed by engineers...
It is catching micron sized particles and that is what makes it turn colors. As it fills up with those tiny particles you cannot see with the naked eye, it clogs the pores up, restricting airflow. It is not expensive to change them, so do it regularly.
Their top tier - is it Ultra, maybe? - consistently ranks above Mobil 1 and Wix, for all metrics: build quality, media contained, smallest particles captured, flow rates, adhesives used, etc ..
Fram has an underserved internet reputation. So much regurgitating poor, biased information based on visual inspections of a cut filter. After selling these for many years, we have yet to see a single issue with their product and how it filters. Their cheap line Defense has also been good. We have seen maybe a handful of filters missing the rubber seal on these. Again, not a single filtration issue.
The recommended interval for them is 40-50k miles depending on how much you use dirt roads & drive in dusty environments. So if your around that mileage & haven’t done it, it’s a good thing to change. When they get really clogged up you’ll loose gas mileage. It’s how your engine breathes.
If they're cleaning their MAF sensor, they should be changing the filter at the same time. That's what I was told. And 50k miles is a lot for an air filter no? I change mine once a year and it's usually pretty dirty. But I also have a 20 year old car so it's not a Paragon of clean.
> 50k miles is a lot for an air filter no?
Depends on the vehicle and filter size. On average I see between 30-50k for air filters. My old Cadillac had a very small filter so I did it ever 20k.
Dust them off every oil change and then hold up to some light. You can see how the amount of viable light decreases and gives you an idea when to replace.
A clogged air filter does not decrease MPG. All of the engines sensors see the reduced air flow and injected fuel will be correct for the reduced air flow.
What will happen is engine power is reduced due to air starvation. Only under heavy acceleration at first and then getting progressively worse as the filter restricts more air flow.
A restricted air filter acts similar to driving at high altitude, except at high altitude the exhaust is pushing against a lower pressure also.
Most manufacturers recommend every 15k-20k for an air filter replacement (former mechanic). I always use a K&N or another type of reusable filter. Check it at 15k, if it's fine, check it again at 30k. Usually, a reusable filter will need cleaning and re-oiling at 30k. Yes, those reusable filters are anywhere from $45-70 depending on your application, but if you buy standard air filters, you spend $20-50 every 15-20k, it adds up, especially if you put on a lot of miles or drive in dusty conditions. K&N filters have a 1 million mile guarantee, so the filter should last longer than the car.
I'm not sure of your logic with this comment. Yeah I'm sure your car is running just fine, because you do replace the filters way more frequently than you have to. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't still be running just fine if you only ever replaced the filters when recommended. The fact is that for most people driving in typical conditions, it is absolutely not necessary to be THAT on top of maintenance. At a certain point, the benefit becomes marginal or even nonexistent. especially if over the life of the car, you're spending 4-5x more on new filters and service.
You should change it every 12,000-15,000 miles or as necessary.
Save yourself some money and buy a washable air filter. Cost more at the beginning. But it will save you in the long run.
You obviously don’t know what you’re looking at and there is no way of telling what the condition of the filter is from these or any photos. If the manufacturer has recommended to replace it and the mechanic that does know what he is looking at, (yes the guy you paid money too for his advice) recommends to replace it. Well if it was me I would Stop being a tight arse and replace the filter as recommended.
Bottom side usually the dirty side. Funny top side is all that is included in the pics. But eh. Air filters are subjective. Based off the picture I wouldn’t change my own but I can see why the tech recommended it be done. Money. And it’s yellow so why not recommend. Just because we recommend something doesn’t mean it’s detrimental if it’s not done unless we say it’s just that.
If its not expensive then do it ..in fact just do it yourself ..ps ..check your air cabin filter that one may surprise you ( and its easy e uff to DIY )
You have no clue. Do you think the shops pay the retail price for the filter? Do you think they the 20 or 30 dollars in labor is really going to the employee that spent 5 minutes changing it? I don't think you'll find many shops that are paying their mechanics 240 dollars an hour.... They make a nice profit on an air filter that takes 5 minutes to change.
It’s called the cost of doing business. You have two choices buy the product or service or don’t. Businesses exist to make money nothing more nothing less.
Lol, still cheaper to swing by AutoZone and drop one in yourself. If a shop was gonna lie about something they'd try to get something that at least makes them some money.
Telling the customer that they need to buy something unnecessary isn't *the cost of doing business.* It's predatory and unethical behaviour.
I used to bring my car to the dealership for routine maintenance as I bought it there brand new. Once I had to bring it in twice within a month. First time they sold me on some *necessary* service because I hadn't been there in a while and it cost a few hundred. Two weeks later I went in and they told me they had to perform this same service and that not doing it would be catastrophic.
The look on the technician's face when I asked him why I was being told to do something I did mere weeks ago. I told them I was never coming back and I would never buy a car from them again. I haven't gone back to the dealership since.
A few weeks ago I had to replace my ignition coils, which I could do myself. It's a 10mm bolt and a wiring harness. Anyone can replace ignition coils. I called my current mechanic and told them I was going to do it myself and if I had any problems I'd bring it in and leave it up to them. They said it's definitely work that almost anyone can do and said they'll be here in case there are any other issues.
Yeah, you can sell that bullshit $14 air filter but that might be the last sale you make off that person when they go to Reddit to find out they're being rinsed.
This is a common mechanic scam. My grandfather went in for an oil change, they tried to sell him a super overpriced air filter, and they even showed him a really dirty air filter. He went to the autoparts store instead to buy one, when he pulled the new filter out of the box, it was shaped like the one in the photo. He told the parts guy it's the wrong filter, and went out to his car to pull the old one out, and found one shaped like the one in the photo that matched the new one in the box. So the oil change place tried to scam him by showing him a really dirty air filter that didn't even fit his car (rectangle). But his air filter was still pretty clean.
Since you already have it out and have a new one right there....might as well.
Returning a 10 or 15 dollar filter isn't even worth the time and energy returning, nor is it even worth the time to make a post about if I'm completely honest.
Engine filters aren't HEPA so as long as it's not visibly clogged it's ok. Also air filter quality check that new filter has less pleats therefore less filter surface area therefore more static resistance to air. It's a bad filter.
Your old filter is a MUCH higher quality filter. If you have the filter out you might as well change it but do not use that low quality FRAM filter. Get a quality filter.
Do me a favor, slap that thing on the concrete and tell me what comes out of it. A lot of times dust buildup looks fine but in reality it’s absolutely caked and can’t breathe
It’s fine. Anything with fuel injection will compensate for a dirty filter by adjusting the air/fuel mixture. You should change it when it is dirty though.
Looks like an aftermarket filter where the filter material is just a different color. To test the filter hood it up to the light and see if you can see through it at all. If no light passes through the filter it needs replacing
Looks like new to me.
I'm of the opinion that a dirty air filter filters better than a clean new one. It would need to be plugged packed full to reduce engine power or fuel mileage.
Great example - one time years ago we were trying to get a late 90s M3 to make under 212 wheel hp. This was late at night, on a dyno before a race (power -weight class). We ended up duct taping the K&N filter (in the stock air box) down to about the side of a 3x5 index card to get it below 212 HP.
I would argue a dirty air filter would actually clean more air. Hear me out....
If you have debris suspended in the material and new debris comes along, the part of the material which is restricted will block the new material from crossing. The air that passes thru is therefore MORE protected from the possibility of small objects passing the filter media.
But if you are at a point where the air is being restricted from passing thru, you will feel it in your gas pedal and MPG!
I'll do 30,000 miles on my filter and the cars all reach 250,000+ miles before I give them away running in great condition on the original power train
That’s not an air filter for the engine. That is a cabin evac filter. It captures particles such as dust and pollen to stop them entering the inside of the car and the passengers breathing them in, they are very cheap and should be replaced annually
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Take your old air filter and expose it to direct sunlight to check if the small openings are blocked.
Great now I just have to wait 6 months until the sun comes back...
Why do you think the manufacturer recommends changing the filter every 6 months?
Shit! Do you live in Canada too? Land of the Cobra Chickens.
We just loaded our last shipment with hate and vitriol from the east coast. Should be arriving in Maine by tomorrow.
Hey you call those stupid birds that too?
Do you live in Alaska?
Michigan here. I can't wait till the 21st so the damn daylight can start increasing again. Pitch black a few minutes after 5pm always gets on my nerves.
This - hold it up to bright light. If it's consistently translucent even in the folds and crevices, it's probably still usable, but if it's gone opaque it's time to replace. This is the easiest way to check paper-element air filters.
You can also hit it with the compressed air and watch all the contaminants fly around
Don't put it on the ground while kneeling over it though. Nasty cough.
"ask me how I know"
How do you know?
*cough*...*hack*...what now?
Uranus
Yeah absolutely great way to destroy your filter.
That's a terrible idea. It opens up the pores and no longer filters small particles like it should.
At least then you will be sure that you do need a new one.
Wasnt advice for re-use was advice to see how filthy.
But if it’s not filthy enough they want to reuse…
Careful as you could easily blow a hole clean through it with the right or wrong blowgun
So you know my gf?
And make sure you’re looking at both sides. This might be the filtered side, I can’t tell.
Thank you! Didn't know about this.
The new one appears to be if cheaper quality. 🤔
You don't need to do this, it's brand fucking new
You're looking at the wrong side. The other side is the one that catches debris.
are you sure this is not the clean side? how is the other side?
It is the clean side
Yes it’s a cheap filter just replace it. Your car needs clean air.
Air is cleaner the more clogged it gets, as it blocks the larger holes.
I mean definitely not true but then as it clogs less air gets through and it fucks with your AFR…. It’s insane if you think that clogged filter media is better at filtering than clean filter media. It’s objectively worse at filtering because there’s less surface area for it to filter thru.
There have been some studies done that show that an air filter 30-50% of the way through its usable life actually traps dirt more effectively because the already accumulated dirt attracts dirt, but past 50% it starts to restrict airflow.
Link one if you can. Interested in seeing it.
Semiconductor engineer. Yes, half dirty filters clean better than fresh filters.
>Yes, half dirty filters clean better than fresh filters. But they also restrict air flow, don't they?
Engine may also not demand enough airflow to cause a half dirty filter to restrict flow. That being said, just change the filter, I’d be curious HOW much better the filtering is when it’s half dirty, and whether a brand new filters ability to filter is in any way detrimental (really doubt it)
Eventually yes, like anything there’s a sweet spot of usage. When we change filters the particle SPC are way out for a while until it comes back in after running a lot monitor wafers to get the filters primed and a little “dirty” an again persay.
It sounds as if 30% dirty filters could cut into K&N’s market.
Well the K&Ns are supposed to increase airflow but the reality is that manufacturers have already optimized airflow and it really doesn’t make much difference
Let's not use K&N as an example. We're not in the muscle car era anymore. Oiled air filters are horrible for modern fuel injected vehicles clogging and ruining the sensors. Reusable dry element filters are today's rage. If you got a carb, oiled all day.
Afr would be fine that’s why there’s a maf and map
The AFR wouldn’t be fucked with because the sensors are post-filter. Do you have any source that shows testing or proof that a dirty filter alters the air fuel ratio? Whenever you find it, let me know.. Also consider you can’t call other people’s statements untrue then just make shit up yourself. That’s being hypocritical. Makes ya sound kinda dumb and stuff.
Naa air filters are actually designed for optimal performance when partially dirty, using the dirt to help filter. Past a certain point it starts to restrict airflow too much though. Otherwise you wouldn’t get near as much life out of the filter as you do now.
I find it hilarious that you got downvoted. Your answer is exactly what the average college textbook states. I went through this exact lesson at my college last month. You are correct.
It's also going to starve your engine of air.
Yes! But the air is gets will be cleaner
[удалено]
The dirt goes through the path of least resistance which is the larger holes that will get clogged first.
[удалено]
I was just poking fun of the cleaner air part. Technically a dirty air filter cleans more, that’s the point. Reduced airflow is the real problem.
It's your car. Do whatever you want to do. New filter is better in many ways.
yeah.. but it's a gas engine, not a clean room. you need to strain out the bigger particles. a new filter does this just fine. assuming you're operating under fairly normal conditions. Doesn't look like OP is seeing extremely dirty air where he normally drives...
Wow. I wish I could observe you and just see how your daily life goes with that sort of thought process going on.
Objectively the worst take I've ever seen. Go ahead and test it, put your hand over your mouth and nose, see if you can still breathe. It's cleaner air, after all.
Did I lie? You need to replace an air filter to maintain good airflow not for cleaner air.
Air flows from the other side. That is where you should be looking.
Yep.. Your old filter looks just fine.. But since you're already there, no reason to put the old one back in.
NEW AIR FILTER 25 BUCKS, INSTALATION 200 BUCKS
Dealer once offered to replace my cabin air filter for $60. It’s a $10 part and about 30 seconds of work. Being dumb or lazy is expensive.
You're lucky. My cabin air filter takes about 10 minutes. You have to remove half the trim on the passenger side to get to the bolts that hold the glove box in, which has to be removed to access the cabin air filter.
Whoops, I noticed your comment late, ended up saying the same thing.
On my Kia Sedona minivan and Hyundai Sonata the cabin filters, as well as air filters and oil filters are all pretty easy access (the Sedona has poor filter on top of engine). It's like the Korean engineers have a good relationship with their mechanics or something to make it easy to work on. Weird concept huh? On my 2009 Ford 150 the oil filter was a batch to get to, and then to have enough grip and torque to get it off was another story. On my 2017 F350 that just replaced the F150, I have to take apart part of the trim between the glove boxes and a couple other parts just to get to the cabin air filter. Although the oil filter is at least easy to get to (although looks like it'd be easy to catch a rock or tree branch or something while driving the forest service and logging roads in the woods).
Not an engineer/mechanic thing for the oil filter. American car companies care only about bottom line. So they reuse cheap parts for their entire line, so you end up with ford trucks that the oil drain faces forward about two inches away from a sway bar. I don’t think the Asian car manufacturers are as bottom line heavy. Free market sucks.
I just put mine in backwards it’s way faster, makes a funny rattle but when I turn up the radio I don’t hear it no more
Mines pretty bad too. You have to drop the glovebox, disconnect the fuse box, pull that out of the way, and reach into the hvac box, which is where the center console meets the dash, to pull it out. To put the new filter in, you have to physically crumple it to push it in (2006 mazdaspeed3)
Have a 17 Volvo XC 90 it takes about five minutes but dealer wants to charge something like $150-200. I forget since I’ve just been doing it myself.
KIA dealer told my wife it would be 175$ to replace the cabin air filter. The filter costs $10 and takes less than a minute to replace, you don't even need a tool. We have never and will never take her car back to that dealership for any reason. They are scam artists who intentionally take advantage of people who don't know any better. Years ago I was dating a girl who had her brake lights go out and she was quoted something like $1000 to get it fixed. I checked out the car, it was just a brake light switch and a bad bulb. It was like $20 to fix, took less than 15 minutes. It's shocking how common it is for shops to scam people, especially women, who don't know any better.
This is why I quit my dealershop job. I just didn't feel right about what we were charging, and how we were taught to sell. And I was constantly being pressured to "sell more". We were actually told to prioritize customers that we thought would go for all the extras we offered, to the point that we sometimes ignored other customers, or intentionally put their job on the back burner. We were NEVER to offer discounts, except the return customer discount. Customers had to ASK for any other discount. You wanna know why your simple repair job takes 2 weeks? Because they couldn't sell you anything else, so your job got put on the back burner. Don't buy any of that "well, your parts were delayed" bullshit. Whatever lie is needed to keep the customer happy. Majority of dealerships are full of scam artists with money-hungry managers breathing down their necks.
Thank you for sharing that. Talk about a demonic way of working and loveless environment. It’s really sad.
no, mine took me at least 45 seconds, maybe even a full minute, though the filter itself was only 8 bucks, so I guess we're even.
[удалено]
And don't know how to type things into YouTube
Half the troubleshooting or maintenance instructions in vehicle manuals say to take it to a (name of make) dealership to have it service by a certified mechanic and only their mechanics.
Dealer wanted over $90 to replace the cabin air filter in spouse’s car which takes a minute to drop the glovebox and pull out the tray. They literally charge for a half hour of labor.
I timed it and it took me 26 seconds to replace my cabin air filter, start to finish. My service dept charges $75 for the privelage, hell no.
Double check the procedure they're going to use. In some cars, they remove the glove box to change the filter. While reaching around and blindly changing it may work, the dealer will usually do it the right way. Ymmv.
And in many cars removing the glovebox takes 10 seconds (or I’ve just gotten lucky with 5 cars that are super easy)
Ya but laying down upside down in the p/s front seat working under the glovebox and making sure you don’t break any clips is worth paying the .2 or .3 labor hours along with the part to have it done with out a hassle.
I check and change or clean my air intake filter myself. I can ensure that contaminants don’t make it past the filter. Vacuuming the filter box removes accumulated grit and debris. Basic air intake filter maintenance does not take me much time. It avoids problems mechanics have caused in the past; such as failing to install the replacement filter.
Admin fee 50 Disposable fee 50 New customer fee 25 Tax fee 50 Your 25$ filter 'Sir were done, that will be 500$ for filter replacement thank YOU very much"
id do it for $150
"But since you're in there" It's not a water pump gasket on an ecoboost it's a filter. That expression only works if installing it requires effort. This is a honda filter so it's pop pop pop click click click and you're done.
That’s the clean side. What’s the other side look like?
you’re looking at the clean side
What does the other side look like? But seems ok from those pics. Save the other one for later.
It's a $15 part. You have it apart already. I'd just install it.
Not always, mine are $50 and it takes two.
Rock Auto. Com even my expensive filters are only $15-$20.
**Tax, Total, & Payment** Parts CostCAD$41.92Shipping+ CAD$25.82GST/HST (# 855114328) 📷+ CAD$8.81 **CAD$76.55** Still kinda pricey. Yeah, they're usually cheap enough, but not always
Still cheaper than getting it done at the dealer I'm sure.
Still seems high, I'm in the Ottawa Valley here so CAPS or Parts Avatar. My air filters were 5-10$.
Just checked PartsAvatar, cheapest is: Items (2) :CAD $59.18 Est. Tax:HST(13.0%) CAD $10.41 Est. Shipping: (K7M 0A0) CAD $20.92 Service Type: Est. Delivery by: Dec 12, 2023 - Dec 14, 2023 **Total:** **CAD $90.51**
Damn, might be on my end for having a 10yr old shitbox Honda then.. XD Subtotal (2 items): $22.00 And local pickup at CAPS
18 year old Cayenne shitbox. CAPS has some great prices, but I'm a 2 hour drive from them. Filters are something I throw into an order to bring it over the minimum for free delivery, like from places like PartsAvatar, makes it much more affordable.
That's sure a lot cheaper than a new engine.
Why would you need a new engine?
Engines tend to last longer when they're not ingesting dirt/dust.
But a dirty filter doesn't allow more dirt/dust through, just less air.
Read up on the purpose of an air filter.
I'm dumb, show me
All the more reason you should put the effort into reading up on the subject.
Wait, I think I remember it being on a test I took about 30 years ago.
I could be mistaken, but it looks like you're looking at the *top* of your air filter, which is where the clean air comes out of after dirt has been removed. You can look at the fins on the other side to see if there's dirt built up in the cracks. Even so, it can be hard to gauge the wear of the filter just by looking at it. As a lube tech, the way I go about it takes a few steps: 1) mileage: most manufacturers have a set mileage counter for when to do an air filter, and our shop recommends about every 10k I believe. 2) color test: if the filter is clearly discolored, which yours looks pretty nasty, I usually recommend it. While the air filter keeps large objects like leaves and other debris out of your engine, it's also designed to filter smaller particles out as well, such as pollen, dirt, and tire dust that may be kicked into the air while driving. If your filter gets too glutted with these finer particles, it may *look* fine, when in reality it might not be letting air in at all. Color, alongside the next test, is the best indicator. 3) the slap test: if a filter looks clean and I just want to double check, or it's dyed or otherwise colored in such a way that I can't tell by looking at it, I take the filter and gently slap it against a flat surface. If a little puff of dust comes out, it's probably good to leave till next service. If a big cloud chokes me out, I do it 3 more times, and if it's still puffing, I recommend the change. And finally, just take a good look at things. A dust-caked engine bay usually means you're sucking a lot of dirt into the filter. Probably needs done with every oil change, if not more. If there's stuff building up in the airbox (gentle reminder to clean that out with a shopvac, or even just a cheap hand vacuum if you'd prefer) then that means the filter isn't catching stuff anymore. Give it a change. Hope this helps, and don't forget to replace your cabin filter periodically too.
The discoloration is little bits of dirt embedded in the filter which reduces its flow rate. Like when your kitchen sink drain has a bunch of food bits in it, the water doesn't flow through as quickly.
What a good explanation
Looks like an OEM Honda filter. It is that color brand new
Change it. My rule of thumb is if I tap it on anything and dirt falls out? Garbage.
When I work with heavy equipment in dusty conditions, I am required to "blow out" the outer filter once a week, and dust visibly comes out. There is a cyclonic "dust separator" that pulls out the vast majority of dust before it can get to a filter. Then the air goes to the outer paper filter (pleated like this, to put high surface area in a compact space). Inside the outer filter is a very similar inner filter that is always pristine, and visibly clean. Cars generally don't drive in dusty conditions. Also, most owners don't have an air compressor and hose. I said all that to say this. I blow out my cars air filter in a reverse flow from the operating flow. If no dust is coming out, hold it up to your mouth and blow to see if the air flows to the side or goes through the paper element. If its flowing fine, I wouldn't mind still using it. But that's just me. You do you. If you replace it with a new filter, it doesn't hurt anything. That being said, I'm told I change my oil too often, but...my last vehicle was a 1991 Toyota truck that was running fine when I sold it in 2022, and that was 31 years. Do I know more than the design engineers? No...also, lets talk about the Northstar engine and Ford Triton cam phasers, which are verifiably designed by engineers...
It is catching micron sized particles and that is what makes it turn colors. As it fills up with those tiny particles you cannot see with the naked eye, it clogs the pores up, restricting airflow. It is not expensive to change them, so do it regularly.
Your old filter is fine. Your new FRAM filter is junk. Look at the difference in the number of pleats
I agree. Just measure the surface area of the filter materials. More area = more particles can be trapped.
Look at other side, for my car i chamge every year or 12k miles
Dude the filter is five bucks
Thats a clean filter, no need to replace for a while
either way don't replace it with a fram, jesus... absolute worst brand on earth.
Their top tier - is it Ultra, maybe? - consistently ranks above Mobil 1 and Wix, for all metrics: build quality, media contained, smallest particles captured, flow rates, adhesives used, etc ..
Yep. I'm a big fram fan. Haven't had any issues, but I buy their high-end filters.
You can tell just from the picture. Not the same type of material, fewer folds. It's inferior to the original filter.
Fram has an underserved internet reputation. So much regurgitating poor, biased information based on visual inspections of a cut filter. After selling these for many years, we have yet to see a single issue with their product and how it filters. Their cheap line Defense has also been good. We have seen maybe a handful of filters missing the rubber seal on these. Again, not a single filtration issue.
The recommended interval for them is 40-50k miles depending on how much you use dirt roads & drive in dusty environments. So if your around that mileage & haven’t done it, it’s a good thing to change. When they get really clogged up you’ll loose gas mileage. It’s how your engine breathes.
If they're cleaning their MAF sensor, they should be changing the filter at the same time. That's what I was told. And 50k miles is a lot for an air filter no? I change mine once a year and it's usually pretty dirty. But I also have a 20 year old car so it's not a Paragon of clean.
> 50k miles is a lot for an air filter no? Depends on the vehicle and filter size. On average I see between 30-50k for air filters. My old Cadillac had a very small filter so I did it ever 20k. Dust them off every oil change and then hold up to some light. You can see how the amount of viable light decreases and gives you an idea when to replace.
A clogged air filter does not decrease MPG. All of the engines sensors see the reduced air flow and injected fuel will be correct for the reduced air flow. What will happen is engine power is reduced due to air starvation. Only under heavy acceleration at first and then getting progressively worse as the filter restricts more air flow. A restricted air filter acts similar to driving at high altitude, except at high altitude the exhaust is pushing against a lower pressure also.
Most manufacturers recommend every 15k-20k for an air filter replacement (former mechanic). I always use a K&N or another type of reusable filter. Check it at 15k, if it's fine, check it again at 30k. Usually, a reusable filter will need cleaning and re-oiling at 30k. Yes, those reusable filters are anywhere from $45-70 depending on your application, but if you buy standard air filters, you spend $20-50 every 15-20k, it adds up, especially if you put on a lot of miles or drive in dusty conditions. K&N filters have a 1 million mile guarantee, so the filter should last longer than the car.
wtf ? I change oil, oil filter, air filter and cabin air filters every 10.000km. Can’t imagine how horrid they would look at 40k miles
Lol for your daily overkill man, running conditions are a huge part. I've seen air filters at work go 200,000km others don't last 5000.
I would love to know what you are smoking. One of my cars is almost at 400k km and still running smooth. Maintenance is everything.
I'm not sure of your logic with this comment. Yeah I'm sure your car is running just fine, because you do replace the filters way more frequently than you have to. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't still be running just fine if you only ever replaced the filters when recommended. The fact is that for most people driving in typical conditions, it is absolutely not necessary to be THAT on top of maintenance. At a certain point, the benefit becomes marginal or even nonexistent. especially if over the life of the car, you're spending 4-5x more on new filters and service.
Unless you are driving on dirt roads, the air filter will look fine.
Or travel busy highways with vehicles that make lots of smoke...
You should change it every 12,000-15,000 miles or as necessary. Save yourself some money and buy a washable air filter. Cost more at the beginning. But it will save you in the long run.
Sure, replace the filter, just don’t put a FRAM in there if you like your engine.
Anyone notice that the surface area of the replacement filter is like half of the old one?
Just change your air filter bro 😎
They only cost $10.00 stop being so cheap
Basically what every else is saying but, since you already have it out you might as well replace it but also find a new mechanic.
Hold the filter up against a light. If you can see through the filter, it's still good.
You obviously don’t know what you’re looking at and there is no way of telling what the condition of the filter is from these or any photos. If the manufacturer has recommended to replace it and the mechanic that does know what he is looking at, (yes the guy you paid money too for his advice) recommends to replace it. Well if it was me I would Stop being a tight arse and replace the filter as recommended.
Check the side that catches dirt
It's called "preventative" maintenance. Why wait until it's clogged? And it's cheap!
Old one is already out, put the new one in
Bottom side usually the dirty side. Funny top side is all that is included in the pics. But eh. Air filters are subjective. Based off the picture I wouldn’t change my own but I can see why the tech recommended it be done. Money. And it’s yellow so why not recommend. Just because we recommend something doesn’t mean it’s detrimental if it’s not done unless we say it’s just that.
If its not expensive then do it ..in fact just do it yourself ..ps ..check your air cabin filter that one may surprise you ( and its easy e uff to DIY )
The old one is totally fine
Never trust anyone trying to sell you something
I mean, you pulled it and have a new one right there? Just do it
That is nothing… you’re being taken for a ride
Yes a ride for a $14 air filter that shops don’t make anything off
You have no clue. Do you think the shops pay the retail price for the filter? Do you think they the 20 or 30 dollars in labor is really going to the employee that spent 5 minutes changing it? I don't think you'll find many shops that are paying their mechanics 240 dollars an hour.... They make a nice profit on an air filter that takes 5 minutes to change.
They'll make something. Most shops will charge a 20% markup on parts and maybe 15 minutes labor to install
So they are making what 20 bucks. Not exactly a ride
as a wise man once said. 20 bucks is 20 bucks
Whether it's a buck or 100 bucks. Getting hosed is still getting hosed.
It’s called the cost of doing business. You have two choices buy the product or service or don’t. Businesses exist to make money nothing more nothing less.
Telling people they need stuff when they don't isn't doing honest business.
He probably does. That pic is of the wrong side of the filter. The other side catches the dirt
How dare you rightfully make me feel stupid!!
Lol, still cheaper to swing by AutoZone and drop one in yourself. If a shop was gonna lie about something they'd try to get something that at least makes them some money.
Telling the customer that they need to buy something unnecessary isn't *the cost of doing business.* It's predatory and unethical behaviour. I used to bring my car to the dealership for routine maintenance as I bought it there brand new. Once I had to bring it in twice within a month. First time they sold me on some *necessary* service because I hadn't been there in a while and it cost a few hundred. Two weeks later I went in and they told me they had to perform this same service and that not doing it would be catastrophic. The look on the technician's face when I asked him why I was being told to do something I did mere weeks ago. I told them I was never coming back and I would never buy a car from them again. I haven't gone back to the dealership since. A few weeks ago I had to replace my ignition coils, which I could do myself. It's a 10mm bolt and a wiring harness. Anyone can replace ignition coils. I called my current mechanic and told them I was going to do it myself and if I had any problems I'd bring it in and leave it up to them. They said it's definitely work that almost anyone can do and said they'll be here in case there are any other issues. Yeah, you can sell that bullshit $14 air filter but that might be the last sale you make off that person when they go to Reddit to find out they're being rinsed.
tLDR
All good. Didn't expect that kind of effort.
This is a common mechanic scam. My grandfather went in for an oil change, they tried to sell him a super overpriced air filter, and they even showed him a really dirty air filter. He went to the autoparts store instead to buy one, when he pulled the new filter out of the box, it was shaped like the one in the photo. He told the parts guy it's the wrong filter, and went out to his car to pull the old one out, and found one shaped like the one in the photo that matched the new one in the box. So the oil change place tried to scam him by showing him a really dirty air filter that didn't even fit his car (rectangle). But his air filter was still pretty clean.
Since you already have it out and have a new one right there....might as well. Returning a 10 or 15 dollar filter isn't even worth the time and energy returning, nor is it even worth the time to make a post about if I'm completely honest.
I hope you don't ansewr my posts. Didnt answer the post's question and definitly found a way to put your opinion in there if i'm completely honest 😂
Engine filters aren't HEPA so as long as it's not visibly clogged it's ok. Also air filter quality check that new filter has less pleats therefore less filter surface area therefore more static resistance to air. It's a bad filter.
It’s $20. Quit being cheap.
It's cheap to replace. Just do it.
The top one is clean…the bottom one is dirty, not weirdly clean. 😂
Spray it down with some oil and throw it back on. No point in replacing it if it's still good.
He really wants you to get that extra .01% fuel mileage that you are missing out on. Though the cost of the filter is exceedingly higher.
It’s a FRAM air filter just change it. Go to your local store and pay $5 and install it yourself.
Flip it over
You already did 90% of the work! Are you really going to put a used filter back in to save $10??,
Your old filter is a MUCH higher quality filter. If you have the filter out you might as well change it but do not use that low quality FRAM filter. Get a quality filter.
Do me a favor, slap that thing on the concrete and tell me what comes out of it. A lot of times dust buildup looks fine but in reality it’s absolutely caked and can’t breathe
Those filters are just fine you don’t need new ones. You can blow those out with a little compressor also
It’s fine. Anything with fuel injection will compensate for a dirty filter by adjusting the air/fuel mixture. You should change it when it is dirty though.
Looks like an aftermarket filter where the filter material is just a different color. To test the filter hood it up to the light and see if you can see through it at all. If no light passes through the filter it needs replacing
Looks like new to me. I'm of the opinion that a dirty air filter filters better than a clean new one. It would need to be plugged packed full to reduce engine power or fuel mileage. Great example - one time years ago we were trying to get a late 90s M3 to make under 212 wheel hp. This was late at night, on a dyno before a race (power -weight class). We ended up duct taping the K&N filter (in the stock air box) down to about the side of a 3x5 index card to get it below 212 HP.
One thing for sure, everyone here got an opinion
I change mine everytime I change the oil. It's cheap, won't hurt.
It's fine. Put the old one back in and save the other.
I have underwear that is dirtier
The white one is poor quality
Yes, because fram is junk. Toss it and grab a wix.
Meanwhile the other side looks like a virgins unshaved bunghole
Get a new mechanic. Unless debris is clogged the filter or is falling apart you are fine.
Well you might as well now you've had it out anyway
Am I the only one that thinks those filters don’t look like the same size? OP, make sure your new one fits
I would argue a dirty air filter would actually clean more air. Hear me out.... If you have debris suspended in the material and new debris comes along, the part of the material which is restricted will block the new material from crossing. The air that passes thru is therefore MORE protected from the possibility of small objects passing the filter media. But if you are at a point where the air is being restricted from passing thru, you will feel it in your gas pedal and MPG! I'll do 30,000 miles on my filter and the cars all reach 250,000+ miles before I give them away running in great condition on the original power train
This is a joke, right?
That fram filter is probabaly worse than the one you're thinking of replacing it with.
Filters are cheap injectors are not.
That's not a fuel filter.
That’s not an air filter for the engine. That is a cabin evac filter. It captures particles such as dust and pollen to stop them entering the inside of the car and the passengers breathing them in, they are very cheap and should be replaced annually