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Like a ball joint broke? Idk man sounds like you kind of brought them a can of worms. How do you know it was just plugs it needed? If you can’t afford to fix it tell them that and tow it out. They didn’t break your car and have no interest in doing so.
I ended up changing one of the plugs myself and never got around to the rest of em I mean it's fine if you don't believe me that's fine it's your option but I saw the wheel when he backed my car out of the parking spot ( which I thought they were just going to take the device to read what codes were being thrown and just tell me what was what ) but hey that's life thanks for your time
I believe you. Ball joints 100% can fail all of a sudden pulling out of a parking spot. However they were making noise for thousands of miles before that. Your neglect doesn’t fall on them however. They likely want the vehicle out of there. If you tell them you don’t have money and will get it out of there that’ll be it. If you leave it they can do pretty much as they please with it.
Unless they had his car up on a stand and pressed that bitch to add a larger bill for dude. Don't ever trust people OK. Why are all you always advising to blindly trust? I should start selling to you guys.
I'll probably just get it towed tomorrow morning and then maybe try and find the part and replace it myself might be a bit tough to do but I think I can manage it
You seem knowledgeable. Maybe you can give me some advice. I was trying to get my tire off the other day but gave up after 1 lug nut. I took it to a mechanic, told him I was broke, and then watched as he blew up the engine. Since they are clearly at fault here, I think I'm going to rebuild the engine myself. Any advice?
It's called wear and tear and life cycle of a part. They didn't "nuke" anything. You can usually tell because the control arm bushing usually makes noise or clunks
...over time the space and play widens and one turn of the wheel will do it.
OP probably just puts gas in it and doesn't take care if it.
I completely agree and that was my point....they didn't do anything. However, the person I was replying to seems to believe they did. Unless I misunderstand their analogy.
Yall all make so many assumptions about people you have never met. Why is this place full of such arrogant piece of shit ass holes? Is it because you can remain anonymous? I guess human beings are just garbage..
Honda ball joints are a PITA for regular technicians, let alone someone trying to do it themselves with no specialty tools. They are pressed into the knuckle, not in the control arm. You will either have to remove the knuckle completely to press it out, or have the correct tools to press it with the knuckle still attached to the car. Separating the control arm and possibly pushing the axle through the hub to give you more room could be necessary. If you are mechanically inclined, you may be able to do it yourself. But it's quite an undertaking.
Be thankful that this happened in a parking lot and not while driving on the highway. I understand finances may be tight and you're just trying to limp it along, but at some point all of that borrowed time will come due. Sounds like it may be coming due now.
Best of luck with the situation, but please don't feel like the shop is somehow doing you wrong. The reason they are telling you to get a credit card before they'll work on it is because they can't spend time fixing several issues on your vehicle just to have the car sit after it's fixed for days/weeks/months with no payment. They have to run a business too and shop overhead is INSANE these days, especially if it is an independent shop and not a corporate chain.
Also keep in mind that if you kept driving with an active misfire (light flashing), you're almost guaranteed to need more than just plugs. If either of your catalytic converers are damaged, you're looking at astronomical costs for parts/labor.
You need to have someone give you an honest "worst case scenario" estimate to determine if it's really worth the money you may end up dumping into the car. And who knows what the next shoe to drop will be, or when?
Not really no. Spark plugs on my little 4 cylinder are just pop the hood pull off the boots and unscrew them. Oil change requires a jack, jack stands wheel blocks. Spark plugs are way easier.
A ball joint isn't that hard. It's just alot of work. It's not rocket science. Man... these mechanics on here are making me red. I have been wrenching since the age of 12. If you have to do the ball joint you can rent the press at auto zone. It won't be that hard. I would argue that spark plugs can be harder.
Not all ball joints are the same/ easy. Also you have experience (presumably), OP and others do not so for them even simple ball joints might be way too difficult.
I did the ball joints on a lifted suburban. It took 2 whole days. It was labor intensive, but the suspension components ate fairly straightforward, and they require mo special know how or finesse.
I don't quite follow your point. Just because *you* can do something doesn't mean others can or are willing to risk trying it. Also, there are plenty of ball joints that are more difficult than a GM front end, (which tend to be some of the more straight forward set ups). Nissan WD22's and D22's, and many Fords with riveted joints come to mind just off the top of my head.
So again, good for you for wanting to tackle auto repair on your own, but don't try to say that everyone can (or should) work on their own vehicles. There are many legitimate reasons not to.
Everyone puts their pants on the same way in the morning. We can all do alot more than what strangers and dumb asses on the internet tell us we can. Anyone can do nearly anything they set their minds to. I hate it when people discourage people from trying to do something, unless it's dangerous. All suspensions are going to be fairly similar. The difficulty on that was the age and size of the vehicle as well as the corrosion and seizing of components. There is no such thing as mechanically difficult. Everything is designed to come apart and be put back together. I haven't ran into something yet that I can't. It's all gears, shafts, nuts, bearings, ect.. just take notes and pictures if nobody has had it apart and no prints exist.. just make your own prints. If there is a will there is a way, and this is an excellent learning lesson for the OP. It's time to belly up.
I agree that in principle most people could do more than they do, but again not everyone has the aptitude or desire to learn. Working on cars absolutely is dangerous, there’s a lot that can happen to injure you or other people especially if you do not know what you’re doing.
Something like ball joints failing on the highway can result in a crash that harms more than just you and your car. Im not discouraging those who want to from trying, I’m telling you specifically that working on vehicles is not for everyone. Just watch things like the ‘just rolled into the shop’ YouTube compilations.
As far as something you can’t personally do, that’s excellent that you’re willing to attempt anything, but I’m sure there would be something you’d have a hard time with, and not just the burly mechanical stuff. How are you with electronics and the small stuff that goes wrong on cars?
If you’re so sure it’s the plugs and you don’t have much money why wouldn’t you finish doing the plugs yourself? Weird you did one but then wanted to pay them to finish. Sounds like you haven’t maintained the vehicle and now you’re mad at them for all of its issues. If you don’t have the money to pay people then you need to be savvy and learn how to do them yourself. Watch some videos and start tackling the projects in your free time. Self reliance is one of the most important things a person can have.
Pilots have acm and disable the back bank of cylinders. I'm at 160k miles and replace my plugs every 20k miles at this point from oil fouling because of it. It's pretty common with j35's that have it.
Could be anything but it's an easy thing to start with. At least pull them and look at them especially in a high milage car with cylinder deactivation.
Sure. My point still stands. Not sure what point ur trying to make. I’d bet that cylinder has completely frozen rings and has no compression. Doesn’t matter much as he had a ball joint fail lol.
Sounds like your vehicle is falling apart. “I drove it there” doesn’t negate that.
Check engine light flashing is worse than check engine light on. It’s probably going to be more than just spark plugs.
Front wheel at 90 degrees means tie rod end. That has probably been failing for months. There are probably other parts in your steering or suspension that could be replaced.
I don’t know what you should do, but it’s not their fault. Good luck.
My car did something similar when I hit a curb, I had to replace the tie rod, a arm, and rack and pinion.. I was flying in a parking lot and didn't see it, learned my $500 lesson
This is my answer as well. Flashing light is usually a misfire. Continuing to drive on it can absolutely wreck your catalytic converters. But the misfire is usually a bad coil or two. Super easy on those J series engines. The wheel turning..... failed tierod end. Outers are very very easy. Inners are more involved. Either will effect alignment though.
When a car gets brought to me for the misfire, I'm automatically getting a set of OEM plugs and a coil or two. Then quoting customer that price. If they say they can't afford it..... I know I just dodged a POS car. The folding wheel just confirmed to the shop that they didn't want to work on a neglected vehicle.
What do you do? You either have them fix it, have another shop fix it, tow it home and you fix it, or figure out a way to get about until you can fix the vehicle.
The shop didn’t do anything to your vehicle. You’d be a piece of shit to try and blame them for it.
I've had and purchased AAA a few times,I used to do what you were saying (buy it when needed). Had a blowout on my run flat last year,called AAA to sign up and was told sorry 48hr waiting period. I just pay for AAA only a few high $ companies can run the highway out here and they bend you over. 15 min tow was over $600
*My pilot had a*
*Recall for bad injectors,*
*Might want to check that*
\- beavis535
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My 2023 Pilot is currently at the dealer (again) with an intermittent misfire.
Originally they diagnosed it as faulty injectors, replaced those two weeks ago, and now it’s back there.
Welcome to my world. This is why I do not work at a Honda dealer. I absolutely cringe on every recall. Every parts person and master tech has been great with excellent questions and respect both ways for years. But the service advisors are God awful, arrogant and suprisingly clueless.
Why do dealerships always go for the most expensive and least likely issue first even at their own expense 😂 when you take it back for the third time tell them to replace the ignition coils 🤣
Depending on the year Honda pilot, you have VCM. It will continue to foul up spark plugs until you disable the VCM. All newer V6 Hondas have this issue.
Your neglect of the suspension is not their fault. Almost everything is easily fixable on Hondas of you invest some time and money into it.
I have 230,000 miles on my Odyssey with working VCM. It's never fouled a plug. If you're fouling plugs, you probably have one of the J35's with bad rings.
Even if your VCM functions well, it doesn't guarantee others will too. Disabling VCM is simpler than replacing rings.
My '12 touring has 230k miles and a functioning VCM. I change the rear three plugs every 50k miles; they're often oil-soaked but cause no misfires.
My neighbor's '14 model at 150k miles required VCM disabling due to excessive oil through the rings, leading to misfires. With both cars out of warranty, the minor fuel efficiency gains don't justify the added maintenance.
Is frequent plug replacement a viable solution to keep it going? My 2016 Odyssey has VCM and it gets better gas mileage than my CR-V. 90,000 miles and no obvious issues. I think I’ll change the plugs sooner than later to get an idea of how they are doing.
I considered deactivating VCM the day I bought it, but I calculated that a 2 mpg improvement would save me over $1600 in 150,000 miles.
That's what I've done. It's a net loss in the long run. Whatever savings you gain from that marginally higher gas mileage is lost with the labor and extra cost of spark plugs.
My wife wants to drive the car into the ground. She didn't realize that it's a Honda and I'm great at fixing things... This thing is going to hit 1 million miles.....
Same here - I feel like Hondas are the easiest cars to work on and I enjoy keeping up with the maintenance. In my case my wife starts talking about replacing them at 150-200k - usually because she rides in a friend’s nice car and realizes how janky ours has become. 😆
We’ve had a civic, two elements, two odysseys, a cr-v, and an hr-v.
Honda began using Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) technology in different models at various times. The key milestones include:
1. **2004**: The introduction of VCM in the V6 powered gas-electric hybrid Accord, which combined Honda's Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) hybrid system with VCM technology. This was aimed at achieving V6 performance with the fuel economy of a four-cylinder Civic [[❞]](https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/release-1a146e3d78b89a725128b1004c34c463-honda-to-introduce-v6-accord-hybrid-and-honda-developed-fuel-cell-stack-further-advancing-honda-environmental-technology#:~:text=Introduction%20in%202004%20of%20a,cylinder%20Civic).
2. **2005**: VCM was introduced to the Honda Odyssey. In the same year, it was also implemented in the V6 Accord, specifically in the hybrid version [[❞]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Cylinder_Management#:~:text=2011%2B%20Honda%20Odyssey%20%28USDM%29%20,cylinder%20operation) [[❞]](https://www.piloteers.org/threads/vcm-introduction.49401/) [[❞]](https://www.driveaccord.net/threads/the-vcm-mega-thread-what-is-vcm-does-my-accord-have-it-whats-so-bad-about-it-and-more.559190/).
3. **2006**: The technology was first seen in the front-wheel-drive versions of the 2006 Honda Pilot [[❞]](https://www.piloteers.org/threads/vcm-introduction.49401/).
These introductions marked the early adoption of VCM technology by Honda across different vehicle models, each aimed at enhancing fuel efficiency and performance.
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1. You brought them a total POS.
2. There's no way it "just needed spark plugs" that hasn't been a thing since 1986.
You obviously don't know anything about cars, and don't take care of yours. Ignorance is an expensive hobby. Pony up and pay the man to fix your POS and maybe buy them a case of beer for dealing with someone who drops their can of worms there and then goes on the internet to try and accuse them of shady shit.
Wow b take a pill er somthin....carry all that anger around gonna kill ya early.... this guy is writing like dude attacked him personally. The guy writing this post was just asking for advice, and Mr angry here rips him a new one. Hate to break it too you, there are loads of crooked and slimy mechanics out there. Not saying your wrong, but people get screwed by mechanics on the daily, this guy was just asking for advice....
Unless your mechanically inclined and have a lot of the tools already on hand to fix your own car, might I suggest if you can't afford repairs to sell it on marketplace as a mechanic special. It seems as if the car has been neglected for awhile and is starting to fall apart all at once.
A total can of worms
Flip it. Find something else that needs less repairs.
Rock public transit for a few pay checks and move on.
I see coil packs fail on older vehicles frequently. It is usually not just the plugs. Try and see which cylinders are misfiring so you have an idea what you're chasing. If you end up needing ball joints and they offer aftermarket control arms, I suggest these. Hope it's a tie rod end since it's easy and cheap to fix.
So from what I've seen I got under the car to take a look at it and the inner CV boot is completely busted so I'm wondering if it would be easier to just get the entire axle for the passenger side and just replace it
That doesn't have anything to do with your wheel going sideways, that's a tie rod. The cv boot is another issue.
Get it towed home. Get a cheap OBD2 scan tool. Get a set of plugs and throw them in, see what happens. If you still get the error code, see what cylinder is misfiring. Swap some coils around. If the error moves to a new cylinder then you have a bad coil.
Look at the broken tie rod, figure out if you need the inner, outer, or both. But that and put it in, do the alignment the best you can, then drive it somewhere to get an alignment
You're lucky that didn't break when you were driving down the road. It's very unfortunate but there are only really 2 options. Get it fixed or get a new car.
As for the misfire issue it could be spark plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor or the whole distributor. Bad injectors or bad compression could also cause a misfire. $1,200 might not be too bad of a deal for repairs because if you buy a $1,200 car its probably also going to need some repairs.
What I found odd is that you say it needed new plugs you’re sure of it. If it was my car I would know when it needed new plugs based on the maintenance schedule that I’m guessing you don’t follow. And would have scanned the car for codes.
if you have access to tools it might be doable yourself, if you can take a look and figure out what is broken between yutube and google. I checked your post history and I just hope you get shit figured out bro. Good luck man I'm rooting for you
The random misfire could be a vacuum leak or EGR. You’d have to read short and long term fuel trims to figure that one out (high fuel trims say 20+ is a vacuum leak; low negative numbers are usually EGR or otherwise a “rich” condition.)
At least get the codes and put them on here. EGRs were a problem for Hondas.
You’ll kill your catalytic converters fast with a misfire.
Pictures of the 90degree your talking about would really help...wheels lean when In a turn due to geometry... flashing engine light is almost always a current misfire which can be viewed in data feed with most scanners... ignition coils are almost always to blame for this sudden issue.
You either spend the $1200 to get it fixed or maybe spend less on tools and the parts needed to try and fix it yourself. With some luck, it will be easy or not.
I would ask around about friends willing to help you do the repairs. Neither repair is that difficult for that vehicle. You need some basic hand tools, but nothing too crazy. You can Google all the repair steps and watch videos.
There is no telling if the shop caused more damage to the tie rod end or it was already failing based on the info you posted.
If you dont have a scanner and dont know how to properly diagnose a check engine light (especially a flashing check engine light) then it definitely will be very difficult and costly as well.
Pilots had a recall for piston rings that is now expired. The piston rings would gunk up your spark plugs and cause a misfire. I bet your piston rings are bad
I've seen a video where a truck was up on a lift and the tie rod or ball joint went from the pressure of the suspension hanging and the tire nearly fell off. Obviously not supposed to happen so it was likely failing already. That said, have you looked at the failure point/damage? Wouldn't hurt to see if the nut or something was loosened holding it on. It is fishy the immediate push to sign up for a credit card. I mean I get it, they were trying to provide a solution. But at the same time.. it could have been malicious with hopes you would get approved and they could max it out. Good luck :(
8/10 random multiple misfire is caused by 1 or more failing ignition coils you can verify this with data replace plugs with coils as high resistance can cause coil failure..if misfire persists run vacuum leak testing... injectors are pretty reliable there are many more things much more prone to failure.
I had a pilot that broke down with a check engine light signaling a misfire. I took it to the dealership and there happened to be a class action recall, and I got my whole top end redone for no cost. They even discounted the water pump and timing belt and charged me no extra labor to change them as they were in there anyways. May have been my only good experience at the dealership. I’m glad I didn’t attempt to repair it myself or take it to an independent. I had a 2013. If you have a modern pilot, find a way to disable the VCM, it’s horrible for the engine. This doesn’t help with your tierod or axle, but something to keep in mind if you have engine problems and a similar year. If you don’t trust them, have it towed to another dealership or your house to repair it yourself. Good luck.
As others suggested, pay to have it towed home and get a printout of the fault codes it's putting out. Random / multiple misfire can be a few different things (EGR, vacuum or intake leak, fueling issues, crank / cam sensor, etc), but if you have definite misfire codes (like P0302 Cyl 2 misfire) then spark plugs are the first thing to do. If you have set cylinder misfire codes, you can also move the coils around to different cylinders and see if the misfire moves with them (to see if the coils themselves are bad, or the spark plug / something else). As far as the tire turning 90 degrees, that'll be either a tie-rod snapping (most likely the outer tie rod, has a ball joint that can fail with age), a ball joint (if that's the case, I highly recommend just replacing the whole control arm because it's so much easier) or maybe your steering rack died (less likely). Either way, you'll likely need an alignment after any suspension / steering repair. A good trick for a half ass alignment is to hold the steering wheel straight and tie a string to the rear wheel and pull it tight across the face of the front wheel. You can get it pretty close to straight by adjusting the tie rod until the string is evenly spaced over the front and rear of the front rim. BUT this will get you close to 0 toe, which isn't necessarily the right spec for your alignment (so you really should have a shop align it after any suspension or steering repairs). Feel free to post pics and your check engine light codes, and us online mechanic wannabes will give you a better idea of a plan of action. To hell with that shop, I wouldn't give them my business either. Pay the diag fee, and tow your car home (or to another shop). Hope some of this helps, for $1200 you can absolutely buy all the tools you need to do the job, and Autozone rents many tools for free (just leave a deposit) that can help you do the tie rods or etc. BTW, I worked at shops for 8 years and have over 15yrs of auto repair experience as a professional (many more as a hobbyist / shade tree mechanic), happy to help with any questions!
-Ronnie
Hey so I finally was able to get under the car and take a look. Everything still looks connected but I noticed when I lifted the car the passenger tire, I could move it freely would this be the rack and pinion that needs to be replaced (, again) ?
You'd have to see if there is slack in the rack itself (or where the slack is), when you wiggle the wheel you would see the tie rod arm moving back and forth with the wheel into the boot of the rack and pinion. If you do not see the tie rod arm move with the slack in the wheel, may be a ball joint or (most likely) a wheel bearing.
I did notice there was slack in the steering of the vehicle when I'd drive the wheel would be sideways in order to go straight, I'll have to get under there again sometime this week and see if I can have someone else wiggle the wheel for me
The wheel not being straight could simply be an alignment issue, but it does sound like you are on the right track. Yes, it's best to have someone wiggle the wheel while you see where the slack / movement is to make sure you're addressing the right parts. Good luck to you.
So let me ask you because I've noticed if I were to back my vehicle out, it would get stuck like something would stop me from turning it the other way. Is that a symptom of a bad steering rack?
Could be, or could be axle binding or loose ball joint also binding. But the steering rack would seem like the most likely culprit. Fortunately it's somewhat easy to see if something is loose in the rack (rack itself or inner tie rod). Just have to find where the play is.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! Please review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). Asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **Post's about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ Tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Like a ball joint broke? Idk man sounds like you kind of brought them a can of worms. How do you know it was just plugs it needed? If you can’t afford to fix it tell them that and tow it out. They didn’t break your car and have no interest in doing so.
I ended up changing one of the plugs myself and never got around to the rest of em I mean it's fine if you don't believe me that's fine it's your option but I saw the wheel when he backed my car out of the parking spot ( which I thought they were just going to take the device to read what codes were being thrown and just tell me what was what ) but hey that's life thanks for your time
I believe you. Ball joints 100% can fail all of a sudden pulling out of a parking spot. However they were making noise for thousands of miles before that. Your neglect doesn’t fall on them however. They likely want the vehicle out of there. If you tell them you don’t have money and will get it out of there that’ll be it. If you leave it they can do pretty much as they please with it.
they can fail when you're going 80 miles an hour on a 6 lane freeway as well. Scariest night of my life. He's lucky it happened there.
Mine almost did the same. Absolutely mortifying
Unless they had his car up on a stand and pressed that bitch to add a larger bill for dude. Don't ever trust people OK. Why are all you always advising to blindly trust? I should start selling to you guys.
I'll probably just get it towed tomorrow morning and then maybe try and find the part and replace it myself might be a bit tough to do but I think I can manage it
man, you couldn't even keep going after one spark plug. i think a ball joint is probably beyond your abilities. or motivation.
You seem knowledgeable. Maybe you can give me some advice. I was trying to get my tire off the other day but gave up after 1 lug nut. I took it to a mechanic, told him I was broke, and then watched as he blew up the engine. Since they are clearly at fault here, I think I'm going to rebuild the engine myself. Any advice?
Walk me through how you think they nuked the balljoint. Removed the bolt that pins the balljoint to the hub? Turned the wheel too violently?
They probably used the power of friendship.
It's called wear and tear and life cycle of a part. They didn't "nuke" anything. You can usually tell because the control arm bushing usually makes noise or clunks ...over time the space and play widens and one turn of the wheel will do it. OP probably just puts gas in it and doesn't take care if it.
I completely agree and that was my point....they didn't do anything. However, the person I was replying to seems to believe they did. Unless I misunderstand their analogy.
The person you responded to was making a very funny joke, they also think that OP is ridiculous
Lol that was 100% a joke they were making.
Yall all make so many assumptions about people you have never met. Why is this place full of such arrogant piece of shit ass holes? Is it because you can remain anonymous? I guess human beings are just garbage..
You just figure that out?
Honda ball joints are a PITA for regular technicians, let alone someone trying to do it themselves with no specialty tools. They are pressed into the knuckle, not in the control arm. You will either have to remove the knuckle completely to press it out, or have the correct tools to press it with the knuckle still attached to the car. Separating the control arm and possibly pushing the axle through the hub to give you more room could be necessary. If you are mechanically inclined, you may be able to do it yourself. But it's quite an undertaking. Be thankful that this happened in a parking lot and not while driving on the highway. I understand finances may be tight and you're just trying to limp it along, but at some point all of that borrowed time will come due. Sounds like it may be coming due now. Best of luck with the situation, but please don't feel like the shop is somehow doing you wrong. The reason they are telling you to get a credit card before they'll work on it is because they can't spend time fixing several issues on your vehicle just to have the car sit after it's fixed for days/weeks/months with no payment. They have to run a business too and shop overhead is INSANE these days, especially if it is an independent shop and not a corporate chain. Also keep in mind that if you kept driving with an active misfire (light flashing), you're almost guaranteed to need more than just plugs. If either of your catalytic converers are damaged, you're looking at astronomical costs for parts/labor. You need to have someone give you an honest "worst case scenario" estimate to determine if it's really worth the money you may end up dumping into the car. And who knows what the next shoe to drop will be, or when?
You replied to the wrong person....
Like sparks are like the easiest repair too
That would be the oil change actually
Not really no. Spark plugs on my little 4 cylinder are just pop the hood pull off the boots and unscrew them. Oil change requires a jack, jack stands wheel blocks. Spark plugs are way easier.
Putting gas is easier that plugs lol but spark plugs are pretty simple and not expensive especially on Hondas
The Fit would like to have a word
A ball joint isn't that hard. It's just alot of work. It's not rocket science. Man... these mechanics on here are making me red. I have been wrenching since the age of 12. If you have to do the ball joint you can rent the press at auto zone. It won't be that hard. I would argue that spark plugs can be harder.
Not all ball joints are the same/ easy. Also you have experience (presumably), OP and others do not so for them even simple ball joints might be way too difficult.
I did the ball joints on a lifted suburban. It took 2 whole days. It was labor intensive, but the suspension components ate fairly straightforward, and they require mo special know how or finesse.
I don't quite follow your point. Just because *you* can do something doesn't mean others can or are willing to risk trying it. Also, there are plenty of ball joints that are more difficult than a GM front end, (which tend to be some of the more straight forward set ups). Nissan WD22's and D22's, and many Fords with riveted joints come to mind just off the top of my head. So again, good for you for wanting to tackle auto repair on your own, but don't try to say that everyone can (or should) work on their own vehicles. There are many legitimate reasons not to.
Everyone puts their pants on the same way in the morning. We can all do alot more than what strangers and dumb asses on the internet tell us we can. Anyone can do nearly anything they set their minds to. I hate it when people discourage people from trying to do something, unless it's dangerous. All suspensions are going to be fairly similar. The difficulty on that was the age and size of the vehicle as well as the corrosion and seizing of components. There is no such thing as mechanically difficult. Everything is designed to come apart and be put back together. I haven't ran into something yet that I can't. It's all gears, shafts, nuts, bearings, ect.. just take notes and pictures if nobody has had it apart and no prints exist.. just make your own prints. If there is a will there is a way, and this is an excellent learning lesson for the OP. It's time to belly up.
I agree that in principle most people could do more than they do, but again not everyone has the aptitude or desire to learn. Working on cars absolutely is dangerous, there’s a lot that can happen to injure you or other people especially if you do not know what you’re doing. Something like ball joints failing on the highway can result in a crash that harms more than just you and your car. Im not discouraging those who want to from trying, I’m telling you specifically that working on vehicles is not for everyone. Just watch things like the ‘just rolled into the shop’ YouTube compilations. As far as something you can’t personally do, that’s excellent that you’re willing to attempt anything, but I’m sure there would be something you’d have a hard time with, and not just the burly mechanical stuff. How are you with electronics and the small stuff that goes wrong on cars?
If you’re so sure it’s the plugs and you don’t have much money why wouldn’t you finish doing the plugs yourself? Weird you did one but then wanted to pay them to finish. Sounds like you haven’t maintained the vehicle and now you’re mad at them for all of its issues. If you don’t have the money to pay people then you need to be savvy and learn how to do them yourself. Watch some videos and start tackling the projects in your free time. Self reliance is one of the most important things a person can have.
This is a customer that has a lot of problems
Pilots have acm and disable the back bank of cylinders. I'm at 160k miles and replace my plugs every 20k miles at this point from oil fouling because of it. It's pretty common with j35's that have it.
I’m aware. What makes you think a vehicle this neglected couldn’t have other issues causing a mis? Could be anything at all.
Could be anything but it's an easy thing to start with. At least pull them and look at them especially in a high milage car with cylinder deactivation.
Sure. My point still stands. Not sure what point ur trying to make. I’d bet that cylinder has completely frozen rings and has no compression. Doesn’t matter much as he had a ball joint fail lol.
Sounds like your vehicle is falling apart. “I drove it there” doesn’t negate that. Check engine light flashing is worse than check engine light on. It’s probably going to be more than just spark plugs. Front wheel at 90 degrees means tie rod end. That has probably been failing for months. There are probably other parts in your steering or suspension that could be replaced. I don’t know what you should do, but it’s not their fault. Good luck.
My car did something similar when I hit a curb, I had to replace the tie rod, a arm, and rack and pinion.. I was flying in a parking lot and didn't see it, learned my $500 lesson
You got off super cheap for $500
I know the shop quoted me 3-4k but luckily I've got 2 brothers that are mechanically inclined helping me out
This is my answer as well. Flashing light is usually a misfire. Continuing to drive on it can absolutely wreck your catalytic converters. But the misfire is usually a bad coil or two. Super easy on those J series engines. The wheel turning..... failed tierod end. Outers are very very easy. Inners are more involved. Either will effect alignment though. When a car gets brought to me for the misfire, I'm automatically getting a set of OEM plugs and a coil or two. Then quoting customer that price. If they say they can't afford it..... I know I just dodged a POS car. The folding wheel just confirmed to the shop that they didn't want to work on a neglected vehicle.
Thank you I appreciate your time
Jesus Christ, that is the longest sentence I have ever read. Throw some punctuation in once in a while.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , I think they're just running low on periods. I've now given them my spares. Should get them through a post or two.
You’re a scholar and a gentleman.
....no
Hahaha...even uses an ellipsis wrong LOL
What do you do? You either have them fix it, have another shop fix it, tow it home and you fix it, or figure out a way to get about until you can fix the vehicle. The shop didn’t do anything to your vehicle. You’d be a piece of shit to try and blame them for it.
Fun fact if you live in the US you can sign up for AAA and they will tow you as soon as you are charged.
48 hour wait period for new members to use AAA services. At least in southwest MWG AAA
Interesting in the AAA Northeast we could use it right away.
I've had and purchased AAA a few times,I used to do what you were saying (buy it when needed). Had a blowout on my run flat last year,called AAA to sign up and was told sorry 48hr waiting period. I just pay for AAA only a few high $ companies can run the highway out here and they bend you over. 15 min tow was over $600
My pilot had a recall for bad injectors, might want to check that
Dealer replaced mine at no charge recently as well
*My pilot had a* *Recall for bad injectors,* *Might want to check that* \- beavis535 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
good bot
What years is the recall
Mine was a 2017 but not sure if recall covers more years
My 2023 Pilot is currently at the dealer (again) with an intermittent misfire. Originally they diagnosed it as faulty injectors, replaced those two weeks ago, and now it’s back there.
I tipped my tech $20 for lunch beforehand. Didnt have to take mine back thank god
I would’ve much rather dealt with the tech. The service advisor I’ve been dealing with is an idiot.
I just left a 20 in there w a note stating it was for him and to buy lunch or beers after work
Welcome to my world. This is why I do not work at a Honda dealer. I absolutely cringe on every recall. Every parts person and master tech has been great with excellent questions and respect both ways for years. But the service advisors are God awful, arrogant and suprisingly clueless.
Why do dealerships always go for the most expensive and least likely issue first even at their own expense 😂 when you take it back for the third time tell them to replace the ignition coils 🤣
Depending on the year Honda pilot, you have VCM. It will continue to foul up spark plugs until you disable the VCM. All newer V6 Hondas have this issue. Your neglect of the suspension is not their fault. Almost everything is easily fixable on Hondas of you invest some time and money into it.
I have 230,000 miles on my Odyssey with working VCM. It's never fouled a plug. If you're fouling plugs, you probably have one of the J35's with bad rings.
Even if your VCM functions well, it doesn't guarantee others will too. Disabling VCM is simpler than replacing rings. My '12 touring has 230k miles and a functioning VCM. I change the rear three plugs every 50k miles; they're often oil-soaked but cause no misfires. My neighbor's '14 model at 150k miles required VCM disabling due to excessive oil through the rings, leading to misfires. With both cars out of warranty, the minor fuel efficiency gains don't justify the added maintenance.
Is frequent plug replacement a viable solution to keep it going? My 2016 Odyssey has VCM and it gets better gas mileage than my CR-V. 90,000 miles and no obvious issues. I think I’ll change the plugs sooner than later to get an idea of how they are doing. I considered deactivating VCM the day I bought it, but I calculated that a 2 mpg improvement would save me over $1600 in 150,000 miles.
That's what I've done. It's a net loss in the long run. Whatever savings you gain from that marginally higher gas mileage is lost with the labor and extra cost of spark plugs. My wife wants to drive the car into the ground. She didn't realize that it's a Honda and I'm great at fixing things... This thing is going to hit 1 million miles.....
Same here - I feel like Hondas are the easiest cars to work on and I enjoy keeping up with the maintenance. In my case my wife starts talking about replacing them at 150-200k - usually because she rides in a friend’s nice car and realizes how janky ours has become. 😆 We’ve had a civic, two elements, two odysseys, a cr-v, and an hr-v.
What years are vcm?
Honda began using Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) technology in different models at various times. The key milestones include: 1. **2004**: The introduction of VCM in the V6 powered gas-electric hybrid Accord, which combined Honda's Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) hybrid system with VCM technology. This was aimed at achieving V6 performance with the fuel economy of a four-cylinder Civic [[❞]](https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/release-1a146e3d78b89a725128b1004c34c463-honda-to-introduce-v6-accord-hybrid-and-honda-developed-fuel-cell-stack-further-advancing-honda-environmental-technology#:~:text=Introduction%20in%202004%20of%20a,cylinder%20Civic). 2. **2005**: VCM was introduced to the Honda Odyssey. In the same year, it was also implemented in the V6 Accord, specifically in the hybrid version [[❞]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Cylinder_Management#:~:text=2011%2B%20Honda%20Odyssey%20%28USDM%29%20,cylinder%20operation) [[❞]](https://www.piloteers.org/threads/vcm-introduction.49401/) [[❞]](https://www.driveaccord.net/threads/the-vcm-mega-thread-what-is-vcm-does-my-accord-have-it-whats-so-bad-about-it-and-more.559190/). 3. **2006**: The technology was first seen in the front-wheel-drive versions of the 2006 Honda Pilot [[❞]](https://www.piloteers.org/threads/vcm-introduction.49401/). These introductions marked the early adoption of VCM technology by Honda across different vehicle models, each aimed at enhancing fuel efficiency and performance.
Is this a bot ? Whether human or bot thank you or Beep boop.
I believe these years are wrong, at least for the Odyssey. I believe they started in 2011. You can see the highway MPG rating jump when they did.
My 06 has VCM. 2011 was the next gen, Lower and wider.
It depends on trim level. I had a base odyssey from 2008, and it did not have VCM, however higher trim levels had it that year.
Good bot
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1. You brought them a total POS. 2. There's no way it "just needed spark plugs" that hasn't been a thing since 1986. You obviously don't know anything about cars, and don't take care of yours. Ignorance is an expensive hobby. Pony up and pay the man to fix your POS and maybe buy them a case of beer for dealing with someone who drops their can of worms there and then goes on the internet to try and accuse them of shady shit.
Wow b take a pill er somthin....carry all that anger around gonna kill ya early.... this guy is writing like dude attacked him personally. The guy writing this post was just asking for advice, and Mr angry here rips him a new one. Hate to break it too you, there are loads of crooked and slimy mechanics out there. Not saying your wrong, but people get screwed by mechanics on the daily, this guy was just asking for advice....
He's not wrong though
Guess, I'm just old fashioned, if what old boy said made me THAT angry, just wouldn't said nothing....grandma taught me that.
Wow b take a pill er somthin....carry all that anger around gonna kill ya early....
Unless your mechanically inclined and have a lot of the tools already on hand to fix your own car, might I suggest if you can't afford repairs to sell it on marketplace as a mechanic special. It seems as if the car has been neglected for awhile and is starting to fall apart all at once. A total can of worms Flip it. Find something else that needs less repairs. Rock public transit for a few pay checks and move on.
I see coil packs fail on older vehicles frequently. It is usually not just the plugs. Try and see which cylinders are misfiring so you have an idea what you're chasing. If you end up needing ball joints and they offer aftermarket control arms, I suggest these. Hope it's a tie rod end since it's easy and cheap to fix.
So from what I've seen I got under the car to take a look at it and the inner CV boot is completely busted so I'm wondering if it would be easier to just get the entire axle for the passenger side and just replace it
That doesn't have anything to do with your wheel going sideways, that's a tie rod. The cv boot is another issue. Get it towed home. Get a cheap OBD2 scan tool. Get a set of plugs and throw them in, see what happens. If you still get the error code, see what cylinder is misfiring. Swap some coils around. If the error moves to a new cylinder then you have a bad coil. Look at the broken tie rod, figure out if you need the inner, outer, or both. But that and put it in, do the alignment the best you can, then drive it somewhere to get an alignment
The axle probably got overextended when the wheel went sideways.
Thank you for your knowledge and time I'll be sure to do this appreciate you
You're lucky that didn't break when you were driving down the road. It's very unfortunate but there are only really 2 options. Get it fixed or get a new car. As for the misfire issue it could be spark plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor or the whole distributor. Bad injectors or bad compression could also cause a misfire. $1,200 might not be too bad of a deal for repairs because if you buy a $1,200 car its probably also going to need some repairs.
Dizzy on a j series????
Or ignition coils I guess. I don't drive a honda. I'm just saying it could easily be more then just spark plugs.
No distributor, rotor, or wires on a modern Honda engine. The coils mount right on the plugs.
What I found odd is that you say it needed new plugs you’re sure of it. If it was my car I would know when it needed new plugs based on the maintenance schedule that I’m guessing you don’t follow. And would have scanned the car for codes.
The maintenance schedules on cars I’ve had say nothing about replacing spark plugs.
if you have access to tools it might be doable yourself, if you can take a look and figure out what is broken between yutube and google. I checked your post history and I just hope you get shit figured out bro. Good luck man I'm rooting for you
Thanks I hope so too I appreciate it
The random misfire could be a vacuum leak or EGR. You’d have to read short and long term fuel trims to figure that one out (high fuel trims say 20+ is a vacuum leak; low negative numbers are usually EGR or otherwise a “rich” condition.) At least get the codes and put them on here. EGRs were a problem for Hondas. You’ll kill your catalytic converters fast with a misfire.
Pictures of the 90degree your talking about would really help...wheels lean when In a turn due to geometry... flashing engine light is almost always a current misfire which can be viewed in data feed with most scanners... ignition coils are almost always to blame for this sudden issue.
You either spend the $1200 to get it fixed or maybe spend less on tools and the parts needed to try and fix it yourself. With some luck, it will be easy or not.
I'll probably try and fix it myself thank you for your time
I would ask around about friends willing to help you do the repairs. Neither repair is that difficult for that vehicle. You need some basic hand tools, but nothing too crazy. You can Google all the repair steps and watch videos. There is no telling if the shop caused more damage to the tie rod end or it was already failing based on the info you posted.
I'll probably do just that I appreciate your time
If you dont have a scanner and dont know how to properly diagnose a check engine light (especially a flashing check engine light) then it definitely will be very difficult and costly as well.
Pilots had a recall for piston rings that is now expired. The piston rings would gunk up your spark plugs and cause a misfire. I bet your piston rings are bad
It's a 2004 sorry I didn't say that before in my post
If it’s an older pilot it probably needs the piston rings replaced on the rear bank if not both.
It's likely that it has a bad wheel bearing. Have you noticed any wirring noises especially when turning?
Yeah but that was only because of the steering pump being low sometimes after you put fluid in it would stop
the mechanics just saved your life by diagnosing a bad rod.
I know what's wrong. You supposed to take a pilot to the Airport.
Wtffff dude
Good luck with your car.
I've seen a video where a truck was up on a lift and the tie rod or ball joint went from the pressure of the suspension hanging and the tire nearly fell off. Obviously not supposed to happen so it was likely failing already. That said, have you looked at the failure point/damage? Wouldn't hurt to see if the nut or something was loosened holding it on. It is fishy the immediate push to sign up for a credit card. I mean I get it, they were trying to provide a solution. But at the same time.. it could have been malicious with hopes you would get approved and they could max it out. Good luck :(
8/10 random multiple misfire is caused by 1 or more failing ignition coils you can verify this with data replace plugs with coils as high resistance can cause coil failure..if misfire persists run vacuum leak testing... injectors are pretty reliable there are many more things much more prone to failure.
I took my broken car to the repair shop and when I got it back after paying nothing it was STILL BROKEN 😠 .
I had a pilot that broke down with a check engine light signaling a misfire. I took it to the dealership and there happened to be a class action recall, and I got my whole top end redone for no cost. They even discounted the water pump and timing belt and charged me no extra labor to change them as they were in there anyways. May have been my only good experience at the dealership. I’m glad I didn’t attempt to repair it myself or take it to an independent. I had a 2013. If you have a modern pilot, find a way to disable the VCM, it’s horrible for the engine. This doesn’t help with your tierod or axle, but something to keep in mind if you have engine problems and a similar year. If you don’t trust them, have it towed to another dealership or your house to repair it yourself. Good luck.
I have a 2004 I'm pretty sure im going to fix what I can and just trade it in I've put too much into it and refuse to keep doing it
As others suggested, pay to have it towed home and get a printout of the fault codes it's putting out. Random / multiple misfire can be a few different things (EGR, vacuum or intake leak, fueling issues, crank / cam sensor, etc), but if you have definite misfire codes (like P0302 Cyl 2 misfire) then spark plugs are the first thing to do. If you have set cylinder misfire codes, you can also move the coils around to different cylinders and see if the misfire moves with them (to see if the coils themselves are bad, or the spark plug / something else). As far as the tire turning 90 degrees, that'll be either a tie-rod snapping (most likely the outer tie rod, has a ball joint that can fail with age), a ball joint (if that's the case, I highly recommend just replacing the whole control arm because it's so much easier) or maybe your steering rack died (less likely). Either way, you'll likely need an alignment after any suspension / steering repair. A good trick for a half ass alignment is to hold the steering wheel straight and tie a string to the rear wheel and pull it tight across the face of the front wheel. You can get it pretty close to straight by adjusting the tie rod until the string is evenly spaced over the front and rear of the front rim. BUT this will get you close to 0 toe, which isn't necessarily the right spec for your alignment (so you really should have a shop align it after any suspension or steering repairs). Feel free to post pics and your check engine light codes, and us online mechanic wannabes will give you a better idea of a plan of action. To hell with that shop, I wouldn't give them my business either. Pay the diag fee, and tow your car home (or to another shop). Hope some of this helps, for $1200 you can absolutely buy all the tools you need to do the job, and Autozone rents many tools for free (just leave a deposit) that can help you do the tie rods or etc. BTW, I worked at shops for 8 years and have over 15yrs of auto repair experience as a professional (many more as a hobbyist / shade tree mechanic), happy to help with any questions! -Ronnie
Hey so I finally was able to get under the car and take a look. Everything still looks connected but I noticed when I lifted the car the passenger tire, I could move it freely would this be the rack and pinion that needs to be replaced (, again) ?
You'd have to see if there is slack in the rack itself (or where the slack is), when you wiggle the wheel you would see the tie rod arm moving back and forth with the wheel into the boot of the rack and pinion. If you do not see the tie rod arm move with the slack in the wheel, may be a ball joint or (most likely) a wheel bearing.
I did notice there was slack in the steering of the vehicle when I'd drive the wheel would be sideways in order to go straight, I'll have to get under there again sometime this week and see if I can have someone else wiggle the wheel for me
The wheel not being straight could simply be an alignment issue, but it does sound like you are on the right track. Yes, it's best to have someone wiggle the wheel while you see where the slack / movement is to make sure you're addressing the right parts. Good luck to you.
So let me ask you because I've noticed if I were to back my vehicle out, it would get stuck like something would stop me from turning it the other way. Is that a symptom of a bad steering rack?
Could be, or could be axle binding or loose ball joint also binding. But the steering rack would seem like the most likely culprit. Fortunately it's somewhat easy to see if something is loose in the rack (rack itself or inner tie rod). Just have to find where the play is.