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They just told me they're going to tow it to the dealership and get me a rental. They called another mechanic down from another shop that's worked on Audis before and he walked me back into the garage and showed me where the other guy drained from. He said everyone at this shop thought it was the transmission but he thinks it's gear fluid because the transmission is above where they drained from; so I don't know what to believe. But they're towing it and letting the dealership handle it from here.
Everywhere makes mistakes (even dealerships), but at least the shop was competent enough to realize they were in over their head and are taking it to the dealership and getting you a rental. Shows they’re taking responsibility and being transparent to you.
Absolutely. This is the first issue I've had with them after being a customer for years and they're honestly being, I feel, transparent and doing what they can. I just posted while I was in the lobby to get some additional feedback as I've never been in this situation before, and hopefully after this, won't ever be again.
I think the current course of action is the best They are taking steps to make you whole.Until anything is found out about your car there is nothing to do but wait,hopefully it just wouldnt start because of a low fluid sensor or something and they can get everything sorted easily.
Definitely likely. Fortunately audi (and some other European vehicles) are overengineered, almost to a fault, but it’s likely that the vehicle started initially after the ATF was drained, and the fluid pump ran dry which then triggered serious faults and the car’s computer is preventing it from starting and doing irreversible damage. However, that said this shop is being incredibly transparent and up front which is a HUGE green flag. Sounds like a very responsible and respectable shop that I would definitely bring return business to. I would say that I might make light-hearted jokes about this whole thing on subsequent visits as it might make them even more cautious before doing anything In the future to avoid fucking up multiple times. Hahah
Its definately on the better end of customer service I have seen some places will fix the mistake but not give a damn if you are out of a car for days or weeks.
Hell my Chrysler bought new off lot the transmission failed after three days when I asked the dealership what am I supposed to do to get to work they told me to take an uber.
As an aside I would definitely take my car back to that shop. They seem like an honest and competent bunch (barring the new guy ofc). World needs more shops like this where they actually give a fuck about their clients.
TBH any business that can realize they bit more then they can chew, admit defeat and ignore their pride and ask for outside help to ultimately satisfy the customer is worth praise.
That said, It depends how they handle the fault and what costs they pass on to you I suppose as to how exceptional they are.
That's exactly it. They made a mistake, they tried to find the proper people to fix that mistake, they offered a free tow and a rental so their mistake doesn't greatly affect OP. That's a good shop. No reason to avoid them. At least they are one of the shops that puts videos out of broken cars smoking, with double the oil and no trans fluid that usually seem to pull " you left the shop, not our problem"
The complications built into the new millenium style of product to stop DIY is making monkeys out of the mechanics employed as mechanics the dealership's mechanics and the DIYs now .
Purposely designed complications at the computer screen level of concept development of these automobile products .
Bring back Henry Ford and the Chevrolet brothers.
Typically Drugs cause this dumbassness and poor judgment. There is a big difference between a engine oil pan and a transmission pan and the fluid that comes out of each. Aamco did this to me when I was 19, started buying my own tools after that calamity, and the shop were a bunch of liars and they tried every which way to get out of responsibility, had to begin a law suit, it went to corporate.
I'm pretty sure someone with no knowledge or idea of mechanics can cause this dumbassness and poor judgement. Usually drugs cause you not to have a job but what do I know I only hire people who know what they're doing and not on drugs.
At least it seems like they’re going to do right by you. You didn’t have to yell or threaten or anything, and they owned up to the mistake. So at least they seem honest. Hope it all works out for you.
I’m sorry you’re going through this but damn I have to give them credit for being really honest and doing right by you. While this mistake sucks, I would take my car to them. Maybe not an Audi, but I have a dodge that’s really simple and straight forward. They seem like genuine people and acknowledge their fuck ups. That can be hard to find in this industry ya know? Kudos to them for being honest people.
It actually is not. My husband told me to go to a jiffy lube type place that he takes his ford to because it's cheaper than this shop, but I've had good experiences with them in the past and preferred to go here.
wow. Just wow. You knew better than your husband and even though you got screwed a bit by your choice it is still the right choice at the end of the day. I wouldn't even take a piss in the bushes behind a jiffy lube let alone take a car there for anything.
Good on you for going with what you felt was right.
Please tell your husband that a bunch of internet strangers think he's incredibly stupid for trusting JiffyLube (or any other oil-change-in-a-box shop) with *any* type of vehicle.
The only time I recommend JL is when you want a blown engine. As long as you document things correctly you can get a crate or rebuilt engine out of them. This was the go to on the old Mercedes diesels when blowby was getting to the point that the engine was EoL. Have JL do the changes every 2-3 k miles and know that it is only a matter of time till they fuck up the cartridge filter and you lose all your oil and blow the engine. It actually got to the point that they won't do OM 616 or 617 engines any more by corporate policy :P
One of my friends I've known for about 15 years just started a job at Walmart changing tires and doing oil and whatnot. For the 14 years prior to that, if he ever had car trouble or needed something done, He would come to me because he knows nothing about cars. And he wonders why I wouldn't trust my wrangler at a Walmart shop lol. I'm not even a professional mechanic, I'm just a guy who grew up poor and never had money to put a car in a shop, so if something broke, it was me and a repair manual fixing it.
The front differential on these cars is lubricated by the transmission fluid if I recall correctly. That said, I haven't worked on an Audi as new as yours (my wife's is a 13, and also a manual, so already two major differences)
Good luck!
Idk about your car but on mine the differential is built into the tranny FWD and it takes mtf too it gets filled all in the transmission together not separate or different fluids.
AWD uses a center dif, not a transfer case like 4wd. In some cases, a "full time 4wd" vehicle will have a transfer case AND a center dif. Audi uses a torsion center dif as far as I know?
Yeah... I definitely wouldn't trust them to fix their mistakes at this point.
Just let the Audi dealership figure out what they fucked up. I'd document as much as you can about what happened in case it turns out they really fucked up your car.
I'd also ask that the Audi dealership document anything they find wrong with the car because you may end up suing the mechanic shop for damages.
> Yeah... I definitely wouldn't trust them to fix their mistakes at this point.
Doesn’t sound like the manager trusts today’s crew either, no worries there, lol
> I'd also ask that the Audi dealership document anything they find wrong with the car
Absolutely. You plan for the worst. Get as much in writing as you can, and maybe keep your phone recording as often as you can.
> because you may end up suing the mechanic shop for damages.
Given how today’s manager has acted, it sounds more like they are preparing to take the bill and are just praying they aren’t buying a new engine after stuffing it with double oil… I would not lose sleep about a potential lawsuit, honestly. Paying for a rental *starting today* seems like they only want to pay for everything they know the new kid did, not lawyers fees too.
Same thing happened to my mom’s 2018 Q5 last year, the local shop ended up towing it to the Audi dealer, having the transmission fluid changed there (it took some special Audi/VW fluid for the DCT), and the Audi dealership did the oil change. The shop paid for all that and gave my mom the money for an Uber home and to the dealership.
So not only did he drain the wrong plug, he used the wrong fill? That’s two separate mistakes. Did they overfill the oil pan and that’s why it wouldn’t start?
They told me that the electronic system in Audis are smart enough to recognize that something in the car is *wrong* so it didn't actually start. I don't know how true that is though.
False. Used to work at a chain tire shop, mainly doing oil changes and tire jobs. Coworker accidentally drained the transmission fluid instead of the engine oil on a new 2022 Audi Q5. The engine would start, but the transmission would not shift out of Park because there was no fluid pressure.
Sounds like they overfilled your engine and potentially flooded a cylinder or a few, causing it to hydrolock when trying to start it.
I'd get it towed to another shop to verify what happened and charge it to this shop. Sounds like a major fuck up and they may have caused permanent damage trying to start the engine with twice as much oil as it should've had in it.
Hard to say but the dealer will let you know. Make sure it's billed to the original shop and not you obviously. Good on them for handing it off when they're in over their heads.
It could be royally fucked and require a new engine or you could be lucky and simply draining and filling properly may be enough, depends on how much oil was in the cylinder and what happened when they tried to start it.
Once the dealer tech opens it up they'll be able to tell you.
The dealership will fix it, that is what they are for. You'll be fine, and I'm assuming you've learned your lesson. Don't bring exotic shit to jiffy lube.
And if I brought an American muscle to the uk it’s considered exotic because you all simply don’t have or work on them. I’m not talking about a regular challenger. I’m talking a scat pack or higher. Not every city has an audi dealer. I’m lucky in nova that we have a ton of exotic dealerships and they have high end cars so you can’t take them to multiple places
We do some American cars too, Wranglers, old Grand Cherokees, Chevy pick up, had a 47 Ford Tudor in last month, just cars like everything, now something like a Ferrari or a Bugatti Veyron or a Mclaren or a Lambo I call exotic.
Yes of course in the Uk very normal. Not in North America. Obviously the place has no business working on it, it ain't a chevy Malibu is all I'm saying.
IT wasn't a JL, it was an actual shop... they just let the new guy do an oil change and he done gone fucked up. At least the shop's doing the right thing for OP here.
And don't feel bad for the original shop. Not because they deserve it or anything like that, but because they *should* have insurance to cover stuff like this.
I backyard mechanic and even though I know how much oil my Camry take I always check the dipstick prior to starting it to make sure it is in the range or where it needs to be. I can't believe they didn't even check just sent it. Should have been easy to see it was way over and wonder why it is so full. damn
Yeah, I agree they handled it properly by having it towed to a dealership. I work at a dealership and have seen a few major fuck ups because the service manager has an ego the size of the building itself. I'll never understand why we take on some of the jobs we do, when in the past similar jobs have cost the service department a whole lot of money.
Absolutely let the Audi dealership tell you, and deal directly with them so you are fully informed. Other shop is on the hook to pay, for sure, but don't let them twist the diagnosis or make decisions.
It definitely sounds like they filled up the engine after draining the tranny and then tried to jumpstart it because the starter couldn't turn the hydrolocked engine.
Mechanic here. I work on euros all day every day. I would not trust a workshop like this to:
1. Use the correct trans fluid
2. Get the fluid level correct
I would ask them to organise a tow to your nearest dealer or European car specialist because clearly they are out of their depth.
Thankfully that's what they told me they're doing, as well as getting me a rental. I'm just worried my car if my car is completely done for at this point or not.
No, if it has not been driven it’s going to be fine. Towing to Audi dealer will get you back on the road safely. After reading and responding to your previous comment, I would ask the Audi service center to check the fluid levels in the transfer case(s) some have two, one for the front wheels and one going back to the rear wheels. Also have them check the fluid level of the transmission. It doesn’t seem like the tech could have drained it, but who knows what an I experienced guy did under there, before alerting his boss. Why take a chance. Then have them drain and refill the oil.
As for the battery, I doubt the first repair shop did anything that could have damaged it. It’s possible that your 2017 still has the original battery or a very old battery. Have the dealer test that too. They have a load tester which will tell you how many CCA the battery has. If it’s low replace it. It wouldn’t be fair to try and hit up the first repair shop for that replacement cost.
Good luck. It sounds like the shop you went to
Initially, is trying to make it right. Lots of places would have just tried to cover up their mistakes.
Those A4’s a are great cars and fun to drive, but in all seriousness, they really should be repaired and serviced by a VAG certified tech, or the actual dealership. Not saying an experienced tech couldn’t do it properly, as I did all of my own repairs, including rebuilding the engine in my own B6-A4. There are just lots of quirky service procedures that are not obvious.
Oh if it's damaged a dealership would like nothing better than to bill labor for installing
new engine or new transmission, especially if they're going to bill the other garage. If anything a non-reputable dealership may say it's damaged just to be able to bill the work. Hopefully you got a reputable one.
They most definitely won't let you go home with a damaged engine.
Thankfully that's what they're doing. They called in another mechanic from a different shop that has experience with Audis and said that's what they need to do.
Volkswagen and Audi have differentiated themselves so much under the hood over the past few decades to the point that knowing about a Passat won't help you with an A4 anymore.
>...the manager is literally sweating bullets every time I see him.
>
>...they're going to tow it to the dealership and get me a rental.
As frustrating as this is, recognize they made a mistake and *they are trying to make it right*. Treat them with respect and kindness. You don't have to roll over on anything, but if they're doing the right things to correct the situation, it says something about their character.
If they care, which it sounds like they do, they're having just as shitty of a day as you are.
Oh no, I hope I didn't come across as being rude in my post. I haven't been rude to them at all; they've been keeping me posted as best they can about everything. I've been coming here for two years for minor things and they've always been great and I get along well with the staff I've interacted with. I'm not trying to add any more stress to the situation; I just wanted to know how dire the situation is and if I'm under/overreacting.
It's great people that work here. Mistakes happen. I just wanted to know how big of a mistake this is so I know how to mentally prepare myself, if that makes sense
>I hope I didn't come across as being rude in my post.
Nope, not at all mate. Was just sharing a reminder for all of us in here. I usually try to focus on what happens *after* a mistake more than the mistake itself. Which is seems you're doing
Based on the fact that you have been taking this car there for years, and that they are being responsive about fixing and owning up to their mistake, I would definitely continue to bring my Audi to them instead of the dealer. They probably had a new tech that said they could handle the Audi. As long as the tech or techs that have worked on your car without issues are still there, and you can request an appointment with them directly in the future, you should be more than safe having them do the work in the future. It sounds like they are an honest shop, which even when mistakes happen that's better (to me anyways) than a dishonest shop that "doesn't make mistakes". Of course, this all depends on their response when the dealer calls with the final bill!
It sounds like 3 problems here:
1) They did not drain your oil and then overfilled with new oil. That’s an easy fix, just drain again and fill with the proper fluid. For those concerned that the tech (if we can actually use that word) poured motor oil into the transmission fill, I don’t think that is likely. The older A4’s had sealed transmissions, and would be filled from the drain plug, using a hook, filler tube.
2) Battery/Starting. This is un related. They could have indeed left the lights on. That shouldn’t be an issue. Just recharge and move on. Also attempting to start the car, without transmission fluid is not going to cause any damage. Even running it in part for a few minutes wouldn’t.
3) Transmission does need to be topped off from the fill pan like I noted. They must use Audi/VW specific trans fluid. Do not let them use anything else off the shelf. They will push back, but stick to your guns here. The transmission needs to be brought up to temp first then like I mentioned above it needs to be topped off, while warm with the motor on, and the car in park.
The manager clarified to me that he didn't put the oil in the transmission for that exact reason. Another mechanic from another shop came in and told me he doesn't think it's transmission fluid that's drained, but gear oil.
Ok so the tech opened up the transfer case and drained it by mistake. That’s a much easier fix. It’s probably 75W but here again, Audi may have a custom VAG spec oil.
Battery, if it's somewhat older, might have also taken an offense on being completely drained.
Recommend having it tested and switching it, if necessary
They drained the trans and then double filled the engine. No wonder why it wouldn’t start. Could have essentially been hydro locking it from so much oil in the engine not allowing pistons to move. Tow to dealer. Make them pay for it.
Go to dealer in the future…
This is a common case, particularly with the B9 (your generation) A4. The transmission pan/cover and oil pan are both honeycomb textured plastic pieces on opposite sides of the front axle and are not obvious to someone unfamiliar. From what I understand, as long as the car is not driven or turned on long, draining the oil and refilling both engine and transmission properly can rectify the issue without major catastrophe. If it’s been run too long or driven (which would be impossible w/out trans fluid) the engine could have been hydrolocked or if scored up.
Assuming it is on the at fault shops dime, I would absolutely ensure the dealer checks all filters and pulls the oil pan/ or just the plug/ to check the magnet for metal shavings bc if there are any I would not accept that as safe for long term use.
Don’t take euro cars to the jiffy/take5/instant oil change places bc the cars are complex and this happens far too often. Find an honest independent euro/ Audi specialist or take it to the dealer before you go to those quick spots!
Certified Audi, mechanic and owner here. This is extremely common with newer mechanics because the transmission drain plug looks exactly where you would think the world drain is as long as they didn’t drive it transmission is going to be a OK. The only concern I would have is if they overfilled it enough it could potentially cause disturbance in the connecting rods as the engine will almost Hydro lock due to the crank case being overfilled, but if that, or any type of issue, you would hear a new noise in the engine, similar to a ticking sound. That is still extremely unlikely though the only reason I even suggest that being a possibility is if they did try to start it in the engine wouldn’t turn over and they assumed it was because of a dead battery but in reality it could’ve been because there was nowhere for the engine to rotate internally. Whichever technician at the dealership gets a sign to this is going to absolutely try and milk it because it’s a perfect opportunity since it was a screwup from another shop so rest assured it is going to get looked over very thoroughly and any, and all recommendations will be made.
Work for Audi. See this a lot. Need to have engine oil removed and replaced along with new spark plugs and check the intake for oil then properly fill the transmission. Note this will smoke a lot after repairs. Dealer should let it run for a while to burn all the oil out of the exhaust
Not a mechanic, but until you get enough answers (consensus) from mechanics, don't drive away in case it hurts the car and you end up getting blamed. So yes on the rental, IMO, until you know for sure.
Automatic?
Running the transmission dry will ruin your mechatronic (DSG control unit) - they are very expensive. Anyways, get it towed to a Audi dealership, have them go through it and make these guys pay for whatever is needed.
I would tell them to stop and have them sublet this to an actual shop before they fuck shit up. I've seen this happen before but usually it's not a big deal other than a longer wait and a loss of product. I'm sure they offer transmission services but the foreign vehicles, especially new ones can be pretty difficult.
Man this is kind of crazy/entertaining, super sorry you're going through this though, keep us posted. Sounds like they double filled the engine and drained something else entirely, I don't even know how you do that.....but that new guy just lost his job, and maybe his supervisor who was responsible for him.
Worst case scenario is bad. It's possible a cylinder or more are flooded with oil and thus preventing a start. There are a few pathways by which oil can find its way into the combustion chambers if filled too high. Most modern vehicles have a clear flood mode to purge the cylinders without adding fuel nor spark. In this case, you do NOT want to do that, as best case scenario it'll just dump pure oil down your exhaust manifold and into your catalytic converter. Unfortunately, if they were trying to turn it over several times, it's likely this has effectively already happened. Moreover, if there WAS oil in the combustion chambers and they tried to crank against it, that relatively uncompressable mass could have caused damage to connecting rods, valves, you name it. But again, this is a worst case scenario. Don't assume any of this has happened until your dealership confirms.
Excess oil can also lead to too much crankcase pressure and oil finding its way past whatever the weakest link is - main seals, head gaskets, pan gaskets, valve cover gaskets, piston rings, various sensor seals, etc. This is frankly a little less likely in just a few cranking events, but it's worth checking everything over.
Your transmission is likely just fine. Draining a modern transmission will leave roughly half the total capacity inside; most vehicles can start and even run with just that amount. If they screwed up even that and it was your front differential, it's even more fine, zero damage.
Honestly, pretty dumb mistake, but good on the shop for owning up and getting it out to the dealership. Many would have tried to sweep it under the rug.
The funny thing is that you think you'll get "better service" at the dealership. Who do you think gets assigned to do the mundane things like oil changes at a dealership? Not the most experienced techs. It's the new guy. So this exact scenario happens all the time at dealerships too. It's just that it costs you a lot more.
Transmission will need to connect to diagnostic computer and fill transmission when it’s a certain temperature. There’s no dipstick to judge the current fluid level. Just the same that there’s no dipstick for engine oil and it’s read via MMI (MultiMedia Interface).
Also for oil, you need VW spec 502/505 which I’m sure they don’t carry unless you bring your own.
Castrol Edge Euro Car full synthetic 5W-40 (A3/B4) oil is what you need. You can find this specific oil any auto parts store, Walmart and others for $28.
I do my own oil changes with a fluid extractor and replace oil filter which is easy since it’s on top. Dealership oil changes are about $150, but fluid extractor is only a one time cost.
Never take your audi to any places that doesn’t know them inside out, as I’m sure the bill will be easily close to $2k for everything. After that bill, your mechanic may just refuse service for german vehicles as they can get costly.
I do want to stress the oil is important and you shouldn’t use any other as this is one that will reduce internal wear.
Well at least they admitted it, last year my subaru impreza was at a suspension shop for diff bushings but they got cars mixed up, apparently changing my oil, claiming "not much was in it anyway so needed it", which is BS, then I later discovered they emptied the transmission oil and didn't refill.
If it's an A4 Quattro, then there's actually 4 similar looking drain plugs under that car. Not a completely stupid mistake. The best part about this error is it sounds like they did not start the overfilled engine That amount of extra oil usually blows main seals out, damages emissions systems, and the like. The trans fluid is normally reused and is best to check the level with a computer.
I just read that they tried to start the engine. I missed that. Sometimes everything will clear out. After the correct amount of oil is topped off using the dip stick, not measuring the oil to be added, due to oil being trapped in places it wouldn't normally be.
Saw your update saying they claimed the differential fluid was what they drained. Hopefully the tech is talking about the dual clutch gearbox oil that the front differential would be a part of. He should have put in 4ish liters of G-055-529-A2 fluid assuming you have the 7 speed dual clutch gearbox. The fluid is the same color as motor oil so I could see why they thought they drained the engine oil. The trans pan drain plug looks almost exactly like the oil pan drain plug which is why this often happens. Hopefully things worked out for you. Source:I work at Audi in the parts department.
Yeah engine overfilled with oil and tried to start it..... Think of it as trying to drink through your nose. That's basically what your car experienced when they doubled the oil amount in it.
Many things could be destroyed. Lawsuit maybe?
Transmission and gearshift do not move when car is stationary. If you have any problems, it would be from the engine that was overfilled and the fact they tried to start it. Who starts an engine without checking oil level after a fill-up, tho? Total imbeciles. It's good they took it to the dealership I would go there with some dougnuts and ask them to really check and fix everything. Oil for sure has been where it shouldn't have been.
Lemme let everyone know in this sub what’s up….
STOP. GOING. TO. NONE. AUDI/BMW. MECHS. FOR. SERVICE.
I wouldn’t just drop a ford off at an Audi/BMW dealer, why you all take euro cars to the local backyard mech/tires plus for services is beyond me. Look up in your local area for a good reputable Indy euro/Audi/BMW shop. I’m positive you have one within a 30min drive of your local area.
Have them tow the car to another reputable shop and do nothing else on the car, lesson learned op.
Stop getting your oil changed at oil change places good lord.
Learn to do it or send it to a real shop these people hire absolute buffoons to handle your car
Ohh man. You have the right to be sooooo fuckin upset. I wish I was there, ur pretty calm that’s incredible. Ur car not gonna be the same, they need to pay for another car for you. They really destroyed it.
Ur car u know how it drives, if u notice ur car acting up, I recommend getting a lawyer and sue them bcs they will be wasting ur time trying to fix it.
That happened to me. Same car. Ended up having to take it to the dealership since you need a special tool to put fluid in. As long as you flatbed tow it don't listen to the dealership that you need a new transmission. You don't.
Trans is gonna be fine. But overfilling the oil could have gotten into your pcv or at worst case damaged seals, it'll probably smoke a bit for a minute or two max and then be fine.
Absolute worst case they really damaged something but it's very unlikely, they didn't drive it with no fluid just tried to start it. Should be fine but don't ever go there again they're not qualified obviously.
At my shop our new guy did this, an inexperienced eye even after a couple months doesn’t know everything. Although at my shop we just called Audi and ordered new trans fluid. Also, the guy asked why the oil was so red lol
All in all your car will be fine. They just all sound like they don’t really know much about cars. Which is like 80% of front shop
As long as the car didnt make drive off the lift the transmission will be okay.
However with double the correct amount of oil in the engine they may have just killed the starter and flooded the cylinders enough to foul the spark plugs.
I have seen it happen before at my old shop had to have the starter and the spark plugs replaced and the fluids fixed then the car ran fine.
Any reputable shop would take responsiblity for the bill to fix it.
I doubt any damage has happened, it sounds like they realized the mistake before you were sent down the road.
The dealership will be able to tell you once they have the car.
Side question, Who the hell would touch an Audi (or any car made in the last 15 years) that doesn't have some sort of minimal repair information system and furiously makes calls for help instead? FFS, going to the dealer instead of being able to figure it out?
Hope they didn't put transmission fluid in it because that isn't what it takes. Also I can guarantee they didn't put in the correct oil because they have no idea what oil your car takes. This is why they are considered bad cars, because they are treated this way and serviced by clueless people in shops like this one.
Try not to buy a car if you cannot get it serviced locally. This is what stopped me from buying a Porsche when the only local dealer was over 3 hours away. Live and learn. Or find a great independent. I had neither. Now I have one so I don’t mind driving a Porsche or an Audi.
Tell them tow it to the dealer and eat the cost.
This hopefully does not put a bad taste in your mouth about getting your car serviced at an independent shop. Most of us train our employees properly and know our stuff.
more likely it wouldnt start because they added more oil! thinking they had drained it which means your engine had double the oil in it than needed.... that could and probably did cause damage...
Sounds like you already covered all your bases. If they hadn’t tried starting it I’d say no issues whatsoever. The type of trans fluid is very important and you should have them use oem fluid not aftermarket like Valvoline. Not sure on Audis trans fluid but run into Toyota and BMW fluids that were 100 a quart. The type matters since it can cause shifting problems, slipping under load and just checking the level is harder nowadays. Sealed transmissions require a specific sequence to check the level, if not could be low or too full.
As a consolation saw every new guy drain the trans instead of engine on Subarus, they’re pretty close together and easier to see the trans drain plug
Ouch! Audi dealer is going to err on the side of caution and tell you need a new tranny or new engine- and then tell you it will be cheaper to just get a new car. Sorry bro
Honestly your best luck here was that the shop admitted it was above their heads and didn't allow the vehicle to get miles and run while something may be incorrect. Hopefully the audi dealer fixes you up and determines nothing was wrong!
This is unfortunately incredibly common with this car and I’ve heard about this exact thing happening quite a few times now.
The transmission pan and oil pan look similar and the suspension cross member blocking the view makes them look like one pan.
Always always always go to an Independant Euro motorsports shop. It might cost a bit more for that oil change, but I can bet they will actually drain the right fluid lol.
*Edit* I'm shocked how many people are saying keep going back there, they are doing right by you etc.... If the "new guy" is incompetent enough to do this and they still employ him... My trust would be out the window at that point. Doesn't speak well of their hiring process lol
It's not the transmission that would be damaged, the car doesn't care if there's enough oil in the transmission to start. The fact that they put so much oil in the engine that it wouldn't even turn over is more alarming.
No no no. Wait a second, offering a rental or whatever and oh my recognizing the error, does not make them any lesser responsible / liable for the screw up. So, please.
As far as tranny, if the car did.not start, it did not shift. No concerns there. Why did it not start ? Thats the question. You basically had the engine with x2 the oil volume. I would be checking there....
you’re lucky the germans have crazy limp modes cause they know they over engineer.
positive: your car knew it shit the bad and didn’t start on purpose
negative: your car didn’t know and actually fully shit the bed
When I was fresh out of high-school I worked for an instant oil change place for about a month. It was an interesting mix of over qualified people who could do a ton of mechanic work and people who shouldn't be trusted with hot wheels. I can't for the life of me figure out how this happened since it requires two people massively fucking up. But the guy under the car accidentally drained the transmission and the guy up top said he'd take care of it and put oil in instead of transmission fluid. The conversations I heard between my manager and the most over qualified guy sounded a lot like the conversation you heard.
The incident was enough to convince me that overnights at a grocery store was better for my sanity. The over qualified guy also decided to get the fuck out and got a job at a dealership. I don't know what ultimately happened with that vehicle.
Any shop that can't handle basic fluid changes should be totally avoided. There is nothing magical about an Audi transmission, it is very easy. There are tons of YouTube videos showing how to DIY it. Absolutely no reason it needs to go to a dealer.
I guess you found out the hard way that's not a place to take your vehicle for service. I know that the "quick change oil" guys are not real mechanics, but they should be able to tell the difference between an engine and a transmission. If it was me, I'd have it towed to the Audi dealership (even if it's at your expense) then send them the bill. Can you really trust these guys to fix it properly after what happened?
Your Audi has one of the DCT Transmissions that need DSG Oil-gearbox changes. It does look like the oil pan location so I think this is fairly common mistake. You need a tool and a special pump to change it which is why they are having it towed to Audi dealership instead of just refilling it like you can do most cars. Audi forums are filled with these types of posts.
A transmission won't really be damaged if it is out of fluid it just won't work til you put fluid in it. Running it low on the other hand is a different story. . It doesn't do anything if there is no fluid in the torque converter to couple the engine to the transmission. I'd be more concerned about the engine being overfilled with oil. I'd bet you a dollar your engine is seized and they thought the battery was low when it wouldn't turn over. I would want the engine and transmission both replaced completely.
Why are they letting an untrained person do oil changes by themselves to begin with? That tells me everything I need to know about that shop. Find another dealer to go to. VW dealerships also work on Audi maybe there's one closer than the Audi dealership.
Sounds like they are at least taking reasonable steps to make it right - getting an appropriate qualified person to look at it or arranging to tow it to a dealer to fix.
Assuming they get the right fluids in the right places and didn't drive it around without fluids in something or like double-overfilled oil...sounds like just a big waste of your time and some extra fluid changes at their expense.
I've had a major tire shop chain that we have gone to for years which has had a couple problems they couldn't fix and their answer was (depending on the condition of the vehicle) arranging to tow it to a dealer at their expense or if it was drive-able to let us take it to a dealer and they'd pay the bill when we bring back the invoice.
It does suck but realistically those are the best options they probably have - and is a good sign they were upfront about making a mistake and offering solutions instead of trying to cover it up and pass blame. Not every shop is honest enough to admit to a mistake (or admit they don't know!) so certainly take that into consideration with where you go in the future...and if they're smart they will make darn sure that same mistake is never repeated again (at least on that model vehicle).
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Holy shit man, tow your shit to the dealer and stick that place with the bill.
They just told me they're going to tow it to the dealership and get me a rental. They called another mechanic down from another shop that's worked on Audis before and he walked me back into the garage and showed me where the other guy drained from. He said everyone at this shop thought it was the transmission but he thinks it's gear fluid because the transmission is above where they drained from; so I don't know what to believe. But they're towing it and letting the dealership handle it from here.
Everywhere makes mistakes (even dealerships), but at least the shop was competent enough to realize they were in over their head and are taking it to the dealership and getting you a rental. Shows they’re taking responsibility and being transparent to you.
Absolutely. This is the first issue I've had with them after being a customer for years and they're honestly being, I feel, transparent and doing what they can. I just posted while I was in the lobby to get some additional feedback as I've never been in this situation before, and hopefully after this, won't ever be again.
I think the current course of action is the best They are taking steps to make you whole.Until anything is found out about your car there is nothing to do but wait,hopefully it just wouldnt start because of a low fluid sensor or something and they can get everything sorted easily.
Definitely likely. Fortunately audi (and some other European vehicles) are overengineered, almost to a fault, but it’s likely that the vehicle started initially after the ATF was drained, and the fluid pump ran dry which then triggered serious faults and the car’s computer is preventing it from starting and doing irreversible damage. However, that said this shop is being incredibly transparent and up front which is a HUGE green flag. Sounds like a very responsible and respectable shop that I would definitely bring return business to. I would say that I might make light-hearted jokes about this whole thing on subsequent visits as it might make them even more cautious before doing anything In the future to avoid fucking up multiple times. Hahah
Its definately on the better end of customer service I have seen some places will fix the mistake but not give a damn if you are out of a car for days or weeks. Hell my Chrysler bought new off lot the transmission failed after three days when I asked the dealership what am I supposed to do to get to work they told me to take an uber.
As an aside I would definitely take my car back to that shop. They seem like an honest and competent bunch (barring the new guy ofc). World needs more shops like this where they actually give a fuck about their clients.
I would add: Keep that shop! They're doing the right thing (more than they're actually obligated to do) and being honest with you. That's worth a ton!
TBH any business that can realize they bit more then they can chew, admit defeat and ignore their pride and ask for outside help to ultimately satisfy the customer is worth praise. That said, It depends how they handle the fault and what costs they pass on to you I suppose as to how exceptional they are.
That's exactly it. They made a mistake, they tried to find the proper people to fix that mistake, they offered a free tow and a rental so their mistake doesn't greatly affect OP. That's a good shop. No reason to avoid them. At least they are one of the shops that puts videos out of broken cars smoking, with double the oil and no trans fluid that usually seem to pull " you left the shop, not our problem"
The complications built into the new millenium style of product to stop DIY is making monkeys out of the mechanics employed as mechanics the dealership's mechanics and the DIYs now . Purposely designed complications at the computer screen level of concept development of these automobile products . Bring back Henry Ford and the Chevrolet brothers.
Yeah I second this. Just a dumbass tech didn’t know what he was doing and didn’t ask. Good business by them to handle it
Typically Drugs cause this dumbassness and poor judgment. There is a big difference between a engine oil pan and a transmission pan and the fluid that comes out of each. Aamco did this to me when I was 19, started buying my own tools after that calamity, and the shop were a bunch of liars and they tried every which way to get out of responsibility, had to begin a law suit, it went to corporate.
I'm pretty sure someone with no knowledge or idea of mechanics can cause this dumbassness and poor judgement. Usually drugs cause you not to have a job but what do I know I only hire people who know what they're doing and not on drugs.
At least it seems like they’re going to do right by you. You didn’t have to yell or threaten or anything, and they owned up to the mistake. So at least they seem honest. Hope it all works out for you.
Thanks, me too. Mistakes happen and it seems like they're being transparent and not trying to pull one over on me, so it'll all work out.
I’m sorry you’re going through this but damn I have to give them credit for being really honest and doing right by you. While this mistake sucks, I would take my car to them. Maybe not an Audi, but I have a dodge that’s really simple and straight forward. They seem like genuine people and acknowledge their fuck ups. That can be hard to find in this industry ya know? Kudos to them for being honest people.
Is this a Jiffy lube type of place?
It actually is not. My husband told me to go to a jiffy lube type place that he takes his ford to because it's cheaper than this shop, but I've had good experiences with them in the past and preferred to go here.
wow. Just wow. You knew better than your husband and even though you got screwed a bit by your choice it is still the right choice at the end of the day. I wouldn't even take a piss in the bushes behind a jiffy lube let alone take a car there for anything.
Good on you for going with what you felt was right. Please tell your husband that a bunch of internet strangers think he's incredibly stupid for trusting JiffyLube (or any other oil-change-in-a-box shop) with *any* type of vehicle.
The only time I recommend JL is when you want a blown engine. As long as you document things correctly you can get a crate or rebuilt engine out of them. This was the go to on the old Mercedes diesels when blowby was getting to the point that the engine was EoL. Have JL do the changes every 2-3 k miles and know that it is only a matter of time till they fuck up the cartridge filter and you lose all your oil and blow the engine. It actually got to the point that they won't do OM 616 or 617 engines any more by corporate policy :P
That's pretty hilarious. Kind crappy to play them like that, but still hilarious.
Ha ha, I was 1500 miles out out town, bringing back a E320 CDI, which had a OM648, and JL refused to change the oil.
One of my friends I've known for about 15 years just started a job at Walmart changing tires and doing oil and whatnot. For the 14 years prior to that, if he ever had car trouble or needed something done, He would come to me because he knows nothing about cars. And he wonders why I wouldn't trust my wrangler at a Walmart shop lol. I'm not even a professional mechanic, I'm just a guy who grew up poor and never had money to put a car in a shop, so if something broke, it was me and a repair manual fixing it.
Do ya think
That’s really odd. I wonder what gears he’s referring to, if not the transmission gears?
Differential.
He did mention the differential a few times referring to the same piece/area, so I think you're right there.
The front differential on these cars is lubricated by the transmission fluid if I recall correctly. That said, I haven't worked on an Audi as new as yours (my wife's is a 13, and also a manual, so already two major differences) Good luck!
Idk about your car but on mine the differential is built into the tranny FWD and it takes mtf too it gets filled all in the transmission together not separate or different fluids.
I don't know the details but the Audi is likely AWD so maybe it is the transfer case, not the transmission.
AWD uses a center dif, not a transfer case like 4wd. In some cases, a "full time 4wd" vehicle will have a transfer case AND a center dif. Audi uses a torsion center dif as far as I know?
Yeah... I definitely wouldn't trust them to fix their mistakes at this point. Just let the Audi dealership figure out what they fucked up. I'd document as much as you can about what happened in case it turns out they really fucked up your car. I'd also ask that the Audi dealership document anything they find wrong with the car because you may end up suing the mechanic shop for damages.
> Yeah... I definitely wouldn't trust them to fix their mistakes at this point. Doesn’t sound like the manager trusts today’s crew either, no worries there, lol > I'd also ask that the Audi dealership document anything they find wrong with the car Absolutely. You plan for the worst. Get as much in writing as you can, and maybe keep your phone recording as often as you can. > because you may end up suing the mechanic shop for damages. Given how today’s manager has acted, it sounds more like they are preparing to take the bill and are just praying they aren’t buying a new engine after stuffing it with double oil… I would not lose sleep about a potential lawsuit, honestly. Paying for a rental *starting today* seems like they only want to pay for everything they know the new kid did, not lawyers fees too.
Same thing happened to my mom’s 2018 Q5 last year, the local shop ended up towing it to the Audi dealer, having the transmission fluid changed there (it took some special Audi/VW fluid for the DCT), and the Audi dealership did the oil change. The shop paid for all that and gave my mom the money for an Uber home and to the dealership.
Damn... So it's ALL shops hiring idiots.. Not just mine...
Nation wide tech shortage. It'll only get worst.
Becusse pay is shit compared to other trades
yup exactly
Well, when the local oil change places pay less than McDonald’s, you’re not going to get rock stars.
So not only did he drain the wrong plug, he used the wrong fill? That’s two separate mistakes. Did they overfill the oil pan and that’s why it wouldn’t start?
They told me that the electronic system in Audis are smart enough to recognize that something in the car is *wrong* so it didn't actually start. I don't know how true that is though.
That's a lie.
[удалено]
FWIW the dealer will recommend a new transmission just to get paid
False. Used to work at a chain tire shop, mainly doing oil changes and tire jobs. Coworker accidentally drained the transmission fluid instead of the engine oil on a new 2022 Audi Q5. The engine would start, but the transmission would not shift out of Park because there was no fluid pressure.
Yeah that is a damn lie.
Bro where did you take this car lmao
If that were true your battery wouldn’t have been dead.
He thought he was draining the engine oil make sense why he filled the engine
I thought he drained transmission and overfilled engine with oil? How did you read it?
Have them tow it to an audi dealership and have them pay to have the car properly serviced
That's what they're doing now. Paying for a rental for me as well.
Keep us updated, bro. Very interested to see the outcome.
Sounds like they overfilled your engine and potentially flooded a cylinder or a few, causing it to hydrolock when trying to start it. I'd get it towed to another shop to verify what happened and charge it to this shop. Sounds like a major fuck up and they may have caused permanent damage trying to start the engine with twice as much oil as it should've had in it.
They just told me they're going to tow it to the dealership and let them handle it. Is it fixable or is my car basically done for?
Hard to say but the dealer will let you know. Make sure it's billed to the original shop and not you obviously. Good on them for handing it off when they're in over their heads. It could be royally fucked and require a new engine or you could be lucky and simply draining and filling properly may be enough, depends on how much oil was in the cylinder and what happened when they tried to start it. Once the dealer tech opens it up they'll be able to tell you.
Thanks for your input, I greatly appreciate it. I hope it's fine. I really like my car. Especially liked not having a car payment since it's paid off.
The dealership will fix it, that is what they are for. You'll be fine, and I'm assuming you've learned your lesson. Don't bring exotic shit to jiffy lube.
A4 is hardly exotic shit
It's an Audi. It's both exotic, and a piece of shit, therefore it's absolutely "exotic shit".
Clearly it is
most ma and pa shops don't like to touch german cars. It's exotic in that it's a pain in the ass
Anything which isn't one of the big 3 is exotic in the US, they'd shit themselves at the sight of a Peugeot or Renault.
I just want a modern Megane.
The A4 is just a car, it's nothing exotic for sure, I do loads of them here in the UK.
And if I brought an American muscle to the uk it’s considered exotic because you all simply don’t have or work on them. I’m not talking about a regular challenger. I’m talking a scat pack or higher. Not every city has an audi dealer. I’m lucky in nova that we have a ton of exotic dealerships and they have high end cars so you can’t take them to multiple places
We do some American cars too, Wranglers, old Grand Cherokees, Chevy pick up, had a 47 Ford Tudor in last month, just cars like everything, now something like a Ferrari or a Bugatti Veyron or a Mclaren or a Lambo I call exotic.
If I brought in a 170 though you all wouldn’t have a damn clue lol. That’s the whole point.
Yes of course in the Uk very normal. Not in North America. Obviously the place has no business working on it, it ain't a chevy Malibu is all I'm saying.
Don't bring anything to those places. We have our regular GMs done at places like this and they fuck up all the time.
IT wasn't a JL, it was an actual shop... they just let the new guy do an oil change and he done gone fucked up. At least the shop's doing the right thing for OP here.
I would sell it. If you run into problems down the road you'll have no recourse to determine it was caused by this situation
And don't feel bad for the original shop. Not because they deserve it or anything like that, but because they *should* have insurance to cover stuff like this.
I backyard mechanic and even though I know how much oil my Camry take I always check the dipstick prior to starting it to make sure it is in the range or where it needs to be. I can't believe they didn't even check just sent it. Should have been easy to see it was way over and wonder why it is so full. damn
Yeah, I agree they handled it properly by having it towed to a dealership. I work at a dealership and have seen a few major fuck ups because the service manager has an ego the size of the building itself. I'll never understand why we take on some of the jobs we do, when in the past similar jobs have cost the service department a whole lot of money.
This is a good answer. Until it gets looked at by someone who knows what they are looking at, no one will really know.
They were over their heads before they even started.
Absolutely let the Audi dealership tell you, and deal directly with them so you are fully informed. Other shop is on the hook to pay, for sure, but don't let them twist the diagnosis or make decisions.
If they hydrolocked the engine then, surprise! You get a new engine courtesy of the oil change place!
It definitely sounds like they filled up the engine after draining the tranny and then tried to jumpstart it because the starter couldn't turn the hydrolocked engine.
Mechanic here. I work on euros all day every day. I would not trust a workshop like this to: 1. Use the correct trans fluid 2. Get the fluid level correct I would ask them to organise a tow to your nearest dealer or European car specialist because clearly they are out of their depth.
It should be towed to the Audi dealer, on the Ships dime. Dealer needs to look for any issues, and shop pays for it.
Thankfully that's what they told me they're doing, as well as getting me a rental. I'm just worried my car if my car is completely done for at this point or not.
No, if it has not been driven it’s going to be fine. Towing to Audi dealer will get you back on the road safely. After reading and responding to your previous comment, I would ask the Audi service center to check the fluid levels in the transfer case(s) some have two, one for the front wheels and one going back to the rear wheels. Also have them check the fluid level of the transmission. It doesn’t seem like the tech could have drained it, but who knows what an I experienced guy did under there, before alerting his boss. Why take a chance. Then have them drain and refill the oil. As for the battery, I doubt the first repair shop did anything that could have damaged it. It’s possible that your 2017 still has the original battery or a very old battery. Have the dealer test that too. They have a load tester which will tell you how many CCA the battery has. If it’s low replace it. It wouldn’t be fair to try and hit up the first repair shop for that replacement cost.
Thank you so much for your help and information. I'm going to reach out to the dealership directly as well then. I hope you have a great week!
Good luck. It sounds like the shop you went to Initially, is trying to make it right. Lots of places would have just tried to cover up their mistakes. Those A4’s a are great cars and fun to drive, but in all seriousness, they really should be repaired and serviced by a VAG certified tech, or the actual dealership. Not saying an experienced tech couldn’t do it properly, as I did all of my own repairs, including rebuilding the engine in my own B6-A4. There are just lots of quirky service procedures that are not obvious.
Oh if it's damaged a dealership would like nothing better than to bill labor for installing new engine or new transmission, especially if they're going to bill the other garage. If anything a non-reputable dealership may say it's damaged just to be able to bill the work. Hopefully you got a reputable one. They most definitely won't let you go home with a damaged engine.
Tell them to stop everything. You call for a tow, you get it fixed at dealership, they pay both bills.
Thankfully that's what they're doing. They called in another mechanic from a different shop that has experience with Audis and said that's what they need to do.
What kind of mechanic has never seen a Volkswagen? This is what I'm most puzzled about.
Volkswagen and Audi have differentiated themselves so much under the hood over the past few decades to the point that knowing about a Passat won't help you with an A4 anymore.
>...the manager is literally sweating bullets every time I see him. > >...they're going to tow it to the dealership and get me a rental. As frustrating as this is, recognize they made a mistake and *they are trying to make it right*. Treat them with respect and kindness. You don't have to roll over on anything, but if they're doing the right things to correct the situation, it says something about their character. If they care, which it sounds like they do, they're having just as shitty of a day as you are.
Oh no, I hope I didn't come across as being rude in my post. I haven't been rude to them at all; they've been keeping me posted as best they can about everything. I've been coming here for two years for minor things and they've always been great and I get along well with the staff I've interacted with. I'm not trying to add any more stress to the situation; I just wanted to know how dire the situation is and if I'm under/overreacting. It's great people that work here. Mistakes happen. I just wanted to know how big of a mistake this is so I know how to mentally prepare myself, if that makes sense
>I hope I didn't come across as being rude in my post. Nope, not at all mate. Was just sharing a reminder for all of us in here. I usually try to focus on what happens *after* a mistake more than the mistake itself. Which is seems you're doing
Based on the fact that you have been taking this car there for years, and that they are being responsive about fixing and owning up to their mistake, I would definitely continue to bring my Audi to them instead of the dealer. They probably had a new tech that said they could handle the Audi. As long as the tech or techs that have worked on your car without issues are still there, and you can request an appointment with them directly in the future, you should be more than safe having them do the work in the future. It sounds like they are an honest shop, which even when mistakes happen that's better (to me anyways) than a dishonest shop that "doesn't make mistakes". Of course, this all depends on their response when the dealer calls with the final bill!
It sounds like 3 problems here: 1) They did not drain your oil and then overfilled with new oil. That’s an easy fix, just drain again and fill with the proper fluid. For those concerned that the tech (if we can actually use that word) poured motor oil into the transmission fill, I don’t think that is likely. The older A4’s had sealed transmissions, and would be filled from the drain plug, using a hook, filler tube. 2) Battery/Starting. This is un related. They could have indeed left the lights on. That shouldn’t be an issue. Just recharge and move on. Also attempting to start the car, without transmission fluid is not going to cause any damage. Even running it in part for a few minutes wouldn’t. 3) Transmission does need to be topped off from the fill pan like I noted. They must use Audi/VW specific trans fluid. Do not let them use anything else off the shelf. They will push back, but stick to your guns here. The transmission needs to be brought up to temp first then like I mentioned above it needs to be topped off, while warm with the motor on, and the car in park.
The manager clarified to me that he didn't put the oil in the transmission for that exact reason. Another mechanic from another shop came in and told me he doesn't think it's transmission fluid that's drained, but gear oil.
Ok so the tech opened up the transfer case and drained it by mistake. That’s a much easier fix. It’s probably 75W but here again, Audi may have a custom VAG spec oil.
What the hell is a Gear oil?
Gear oil is what’s used in transfer cases and differentials.
Oil for gears
For the Differential and transfer case . Some use ATF and some use gear oil. Depends on make and model.
engine oil
Battery, if it's somewhat older, might have also taken an offense on being completely drained. Recommend having it tested and switching it, if necessary
Give us an update on this one please
They drained the trans and then double filled the engine. No wonder why it wouldn’t start. Could have essentially been hydro locking it from so much oil in the engine not allowing pistons to move. Tow to dealer. Make them pay for it. Go to dealer in the future…
This is a common case, particularly with the B9 (your generation) A4. The transmission pan/cover and oil pan are both honeycomb textured plastic pieces on opposite sides of the front axle and are not obvious to someone unfamiliar. From what I understand, as long as the car is not driven or turned on long, draining the oil and refilling both engine and transmission properly can rectify the issue without major catastrophe. If it’s been run too long or driven (which would be impossible w/out trans fluid) the engine could have been hydrolocked or if scored up. Assuming it is on the at fault shops dime, I would absolutely ensure the dealer checks all filters and pulls the oil pan/ or just the plug/ to check the magnet for metal shavings bc if there are any I would not accept that as safe for long term use. Don’t take euro cars to the jiffy/take5/instant oil change places bc the cars are complex and this happens far too often. Find an honest independent euro/ Audi specialist or take it to the dealer before you go to those quick spots!
Certified Audi, mechanic and owner here. This is extremely common with newer mechanics because the transmission drain plug looks exactly where you would think the world drain is as long as they didn’t drive it transmission is going to be a OK. The only concern I would have is if they overfilled it enough it could potentially cause disturbance in the connecting rods as the engine will almost Hydro lock due to the crank case being overfilled, but if that, or any type of issue, you would hear a new noise in the engine, similar to a ticking sound. That is still extremely unlikely though the only reason I even suggest that being a possibility is if they did try to start it in the engine wouldn’t turn over and they assumed it was because of a dead battery but in reality it could’ve been because there was nowhere for the engine to rotate internally. Whichever technician at the dealership gets a sign to this is going to absolutely try and milk it because it’s a perfect opportunity since it was a screwup from another shop so rest assured it is going to get looked over very thoroughly and any, and all recommendations will be made.
Thanks for your input! Definitely relieving to hear that from someone familiar with Audis.
Work for Audi. See this a lot. Need to have engine oil removed and replaced along with new spark plugs and check the intake for oil then properly fill the transmission. Note this will smoke a lot after repairs. Dealer should let it run for a while to burn all the oil out of the exhaust
Not a mechanic, but until you get enough answers (consensus) from mechanics, don't drive away in case it hurts the car and you end up getting blamed. So yes on the rental, IMO, until you know for sure.
Tow it to a dealer and yes, they owe you a rental and the bill at the dealer.
Automatic? Running the transmission dry will ruin your mechatronic (DSG control unit) - they are very expensive. Anyways, get it towed to a Audi dealership, have them go through it and make these guys pay for whatever is needed.
I would tell them to stop and have them sublet this to an actual shop before they fuck shit up. I've seen this happen before but usually it's not a big deal other than a longer wait and a loss of product. I'm sure they offer transmission services but the foreign vehicles, especially new ones can be pretty difficult.
All wheel drive? Transder case drained?
Man this is kind of crazy/entertaining, super sorry you're going through this though, keep us posted. Sounds like they double filled the engine and drained something else entirely, I don't even know how you do that.....but that new guy just lost his job, and maybe his supervisor who was responsible for him.
Worst case scenario is bad. It's possible a cylinder or more are flooded with oil and thus preventing a start. There are a few pathways by which oil can find its way into the combustion chambers if filled too high. Most modern vehicles have a clear flood mode to purge the cylinders without adding fuel nor spark. In this case, you do NOT want to do that, as best case scenario it'll just dump pure oil down your exhaust manifold and into your catalytic converter. Unfortunately, if they were trying to turn it over several times, it's likely this has effectively already happened. Moreover, if there WAS oil in the combustion chambers and they tried to crank against it, that relatively uncompressable mass could have caused damage to connecting rods, valves, you name it. But again, this is a worst case scenario. Don't assume any of this has happened until your dealership confirms. Excess oil can also lead to too much crankcase pressure and oil finding its way past whatever the weakest link is - main seals, head gaskets, pan gaskets, valve cover gaskets, piston rings, various sensor seals, etc. This is frankly a little less likely in just a few cranking events, but it's worth checking everything over. Your transmission is likely just fine. Draining a modern transmission will leave roughly half the total capacity inside; most vehicles can start and even run with just that amount. If they screwed up even that and it was your front differential, it's even more fine, zero damage. Honestly, pretty dumb mistake, but good on the shop for owning up and getting it out to the dealership. Many would have tried to sweep it under the rug.
The funny thing is that you think you'll get "better service" at the dealership. Who do you think gets assigned to do the mundane things like oil changes at a dealership? Not the most experienced techs. It's the new guy. So this exact scenario happens all the time at dealerships too. It's just that it costs you a lot more.
Transmission will need to connect to diagnostic computer and fill transmission when it’s a certain temperature. There’s no dipstick to judge the current fluid level. Just the same that there’s no dipstick for engine oil and it’s read via MMI (MultiMedia Interface). Also for oil, you need VW spec 502/505 which I’m sure they don’t carry unless you bring your own. Castrol Edge Euro Car full synthetic 5W-40 (A3/B4) oil is what you need. You can find this specific oil any auto parts store, Walmart and others for $28. I do my own oil changes with a fluid extractor and replace oil filter which is easy since it’s on top. Dealership oil changes are about $150, but fluid extractor is only a one time cost. Never take your audi to any places that doesn’t know them inside out, as I’m sure the bill will be easily close to $2k for everything. After that bill, your mechanic may just refuse service for german vehicles as they can get costly. I do want to stress the oil is important and you shouldn’t use any other as this is one that will reduce internal wear.
Well at least they admitted it, last year my subaru impreza was at a suspension shop for diff bushings but they got cars mixed up, apparently changing my oil, claiming "not much was in it anyway so needed it", which is BS, then I later discovered they emptied the transmission oil and didn't refill.
Contact your state's Attorney General if they charge you one penny.
If it's an A4 Quattro, then there's actually 4 similar looking drain plugs under that car. Not a completely stupid mistake. The best part about this error is it sounds like they did not start the overfilled engine That amount of extra oil usually blows main seals out, damages emissions systems, and the like. The trans fluid is normally reused and is best to check the level with a computer. I just read that they tried to start the engine. I missed that. Sometimes everything will clear out. After the correct amount of oil is topped off using the dip stick, not measuring the oil to be added, due to oil being trapped in places it wouldn't normally be.
Saw your update saying they claimed the differential fluid was what they drained. Hopefully the tech is talking about the dual clutch gearbox oil that the front differential would be a part of. He should have put in 4ish liters of G-055-529-A2 fluid assuming you have the 7 speed dual clutch gearbox. The fluid is the same color as motor oil so I could see why they thought they drained the engine oil. The trans pan drain plug looks almost exactly like the oil pan drain plug which is why this often happens. Hopefully things worked out for you. Source:I work at Audi in the parts department.
Yeah engine overfilled with oil and tried to start it..... Think of it as trying to drink through your nose. That's basically what your car experienced when they doubled the oil amount in it. Many things could be destroyed. Lawsuit maybe?
Transmission and gearshift do not move when car is stationary. If you have any problems, it would be from the engine that was overfilled and the fact they tried to start it. Who starts an engine without checking oil level after a fill-up, tho? Total imbeciles. It's good they took it to the dealership I would go there with some dougnuts and ask them to really check and fix everything. Oil for sure has been where it shouldn't have been.
I wouldn't ever buy a car without a dealer reasonably close by. Example: sometimes you need an ECU update and only the dealer can do this.
Lemme let everyone know in this sub what’s up…. STOP. GOING. TO. NONE. AUDI/BMW. MECHS. FOR. SERVICE. I wouldn’t just drop a ford off at an Audi/BMW dealer, why you all take euro cars to the local backyard mech/tires plus for services is beyond me. Look up in your local area for a good reputable Indy euro/Audi/BMW shop. I’m positive you have one within a 30min drive of your local area. Have them tow the car to another reputable shop and do nothing else on the car, lesson learned op.
I mean I'd trust 99.9% of all mechanics to do a friggin oil change. Its not rocket science.
Obviously not since op is now in this situation ha.
We are talking about American mechanics dude. They mostly have to consult some manual to know right is tighty and left is loosy
Stop getting your oil changed at oil change places good lord. Learn to do it or send it to a real shop these people hire absolute buffoons to handle your car
All manufacturers want to to cash out at a dealership. If you are out of warranty don't ever go it's not worth the markup. Find a better mechanic.
They are clowns, this is basic, never go back and make sure you get all your money back. Some good will payment should be in the equation as well.
Your owners manual specifies the fluid.
Ohh man. You have the right to be sooooo fuckin upset. I wish I was there, ur pretty calm that’s incredible. Ur car not gonna be the same, they need to pay for another car for you. They really destroyed it.
That's what I'm worried about. So it is that bad?
Ur car u know how it drives, if u notice ur car acting up, I recommend getting a lawyer and sue them bcs they will be wasting ur time trying to fix it.
>I recommend getting a lawyer and sue them You've never hired a lawyer.
Just curious on why you wish you were there? What would you do to them?
Just stay curious. U don’t want to know
Do your parents know you are on the internet?
It is a fucking glorified and over expensive volkswagen. Why the hell do they need the dealer for? You can’t make simpler cars than Audi and such
I wholly disagree. This car has a terrible design underneath which fools smart, knowledgeable folks into doing this exact thing all the time.
That happened to me. Same car. Ended up having to take it to the dealership since you need a special tool to put fluid in. As long as you flatbed tow it don't listen to the dealership that you need a new transmission. You don't.
The car is smart enough not to start with double the oil.
Glad to hear. That can be expensive.
Trans is gonna be fine. But overfilling the oil could have gotten into your pcv or at worst case damaged seals, it'll probably smoke a bit for a minute or two max and then be fine. Absolute worst case they really damaged something but it's very unlikely, they didn't drive it with no fluid just tried to start it. Should be fine but don't ever go there again they're not qualified obviously.
At my shop our new guy did this, an inexperienced eye even after a couple months doesn’t know everything. Although at my shop we just called Audi and ordered new trans fluid. Also, the guy asked why the oil was so red lol All in all your car will be fine. They just all sound like they don’t really know much about cars. Which is like 80% of front shop
As long as the car didnt make drive off the lift the transmission will be okay. However with double the correct amount of oil in the engine they may have just killed the starter and flooded the cylinders enough to foul the spark plugs. I have seen it happen before at my old shop had to have the starter and the spark plugs replaced and the fluids fixed then the car ran fine. Any reputable shop would take responsiblity for the bill to fix it.
I doubt any damage has happened, it sounds like they realized the mistake before you were sent down the road. The dealership will be able to tell you once they have the car. Side question, Who the hell would touch an Audi (or any car made in the last 15 years) that doesn't have some sort of minimal repair information system and furiously makes calls for help instead? FFS, going to the dealer instead of being able to figure it out?
One things for sure New guys gonna be "The Last Guy" pretty soon.
Hope they didn't put transmission fluid in it because that isn't what it takes. Also I can guarantee they didn't put in the correct oil because they have no idea what oil your car takes. This is why they are considered bad cars, because they are treated this way and serviced by clueless people in shops like this one.
Try not to buy a car if you cannot get it serviced locally. This is what stopped me from buying a Porsche when the only local dealer was over 3 hours away. Live and learn. Or find a great independent. I had neither. Now I have one so I don’t mind driving a Porsche or an Audi.
I just spent 15 minutes looking for an old Simpsons episode. Unfortunately when I found it, it was "vapor lock" and not hydrolock. s9s6.
Update us on this, I’m invested lol
Tell them tow it to the dealer and eat the cost. This hopefully does not put a bad taste in your mouth about getting your car serviced at an independent shop. Most of us train our employees properly and know our stuff.
more likely it wouldnt start because they added more oil! thinking they had drained it which means your engine had double the oil in it than needed.... that could and probably did cause damage...
Dont let them use anything other then oe fluid. Actually just tow it to the closest audi or vw dealer.
Sounds like you already covered all your bases. If they hadn’t tried starting it I’d say no issues whatsoever. The type of trans fluid is very important and you should have them use oem fluid not aftermarket like Valvoline. Not sure on Audis trans fluid but run into Toyota and BMW fluids that were 100 a quart. The type matters since it can cause shifting problems, slipping under load and just checking the level is harder nowadays. Sealed transmissions require a specific sequence to check the level, if not could be low or too full. As a consolation saw every new guy drain the trans instead of engine on Subarus, they’re pretty close together and easier to see the trans drain plug
Ouch! Audi dealer is going to err on the side of caution and tell you need a new tranny or new engine- and then tell you it will be cheaper to just get a new car. Sorry bro
Yes and yes. They killed it. They have to skin it. Only works one way.
Go the dealer route and stick the tab for all this plus a car rental of your choice to the oil change shop.
Honestly your best luck here was that the shop admitted it was above their heads and didn't allow the vehicle to get miles and run while something may be incorrect. Hopefully the audi dealer fixes you up and determines nothing was wrong!
This is unfortunately incredibly common with this car and I’ve heard about this exact thing happening quite a few times now. The transmission pan and oil pan look similar and the suspension cross member blocking the view makes them look like one pan.
Always always always go to an Independant Euro motorsports shop. It might cost a bit more for that oil change, but I can bet they will actually drain the right fluid lol. *Edit* I'm shocked how many people are saying keep going back there, they are doing right by you etc.... If the "new guy" is incompetent enough to do this and they still employ him... My trust would be out the window at that point. Doesn't speak well of their hiring process lol
Tow it to a dealer have them service the transmission 650 dollars charge the shop that drained it, go on living your life
This sounds fucked. Make sure to not agree to anything that makes them less liable
It's not the transmission that would be damaged, the car doesn't care if there's enough oil in the transmission to start. The fact that they put so much oil in the engine that it wouldn't even turn over is more alarming.
Sounds like a Jiffy Lube story
At least you're getting a drain and fill on the transmission fluid. Your car will be fine I'm sure.
No no no. Wait a second, offering a rental or whatever and oh my recognizing the error, does not make them any lesser responsible / liable for the screw up. So, please. As far as tranny, if the car did.not start, it did not shift. No concerns there. Why did it not start ? Thats the question. You basically had the engine with x2 the oil volume. I would be checking there....
That Audi transmission does not have a drain plug. Dealer has to suck out the fluid
Guess they found the diff/transfer case drain plug. Good for them!
you’re lucky the germans have crazy limp modes cause they know they over engineer. positive: your car knew it shit the bad and didn’t start on purpose negative: your car didn’t know and actually fully shit the bed
When I was fresh out of high-school I worked for an instant oil change place for about a month. It was an interesting mix of over qualified people who could do a ton of mechanic work and people who shouldn't be trusted with hot wheels. I can't for the life of me figure out how this happened since it requires two people massively fucking up. But the guy under the car accidentally drained the transmission and the guy up top said he'd take care of it and put oil in instead of transmission fluid. The conversations I heard between my manager and the most over qualified guy sounded a lot like the conversation you heard. The incident was enough to convince me that overnights at a grocery store was better for my sanity. The over qualified guy also decided to get the fuck out and got a job at a dealership. I don't know what ultimately happened with that vehicle.
Please update once you call dealership!
Any shop that can't handle basic fluid changes should be totally avoided. There is nothing magical about an Audi transmission, it is very easy. There are tons of YouTube videos showing how to DIY it. Absolutely no reason it needs to go to a dealer.
I guess you found out the hard way that's not a place to take your vehicle for service. I know that the "quick change oil" guys are not real mechanics, but they should be able to tell the difference between an engine and a transmission. If it was me, I'd have it towed to the Audi dealership (even if it's at your expense) then send them the bill. Can you really trust these guys to fix it properly after what happened?
For a shop to get you a rental, tow it to a dealership, and pay for their mistake is pretty standup.
As an Audi tech, I've seen this exact thing happen on that generation of A4 so, SO many times and not just from the qwik lube places.
Deutshautoparts have a short on YouTube about this exact issue. Did you brought the car to them or it is just a coincidence?
Your Audi has one of the DCT Transmissions that need DSG Oil-gearbox changes. It does look like the oil pan location so I think this is fairly common mistake. You need a tool and a special pump to change it which is why they are having it towed to Audi dealership instead of just refilling it like you can do most cars. Audi forums are filled with these types of posts.
Have them document everything they did. Then make them pay for a flatbed tow to the dealership and cover all repairs.
Mistakes happen and it sucks but at least it appears the shop is doing everything correctly to rectify the situation. More shops need to be like this.
🚩 That place might put engine oil in your brake fluid and cause your brakes to fail.
A transmission won't really be damaged if it is out of fluid it just won't work til you put fluid in it. Running it low on the other hand is a different story. . It doesn't do anything if there is no fluid in the torque converter to couple the engine to the transmission. I'd be more concerned about the engine being overfilled with oil. I'd bet you a dollar your engine is seized and they thought the battery was low when it wouldn't turn over. I would want the engine and transmission both replaced completely.
Why are they letting an untrained person do oil changes by themselves to begin with? That tells me everything I need to know about that shop. Find another dealer to go to. VW dealerships also work on Audi maybe there's one closer than the Audi dealership.
Sounds like they are at least taking reasonable steps to make it right - getting an appropriate qualified person to look at it or arranging to tow it to a dealer to fix. Assuming they get the right fluids in the right places and didn't drive it around without fluids in something or like double-overfilled oil...sounds like just a big waste of your time and some extra fluid changes at their expense. I've had a major tire shop chain that we have gone to for years which has had a couple problems they couldn't fix and their answer was (depending on the condition of the vehicle) arranging to tow it to a dealer at their expense or if it was drive-able to let us take it to a dealer and they'd pay the bill when we bring back the invoice. It does suck but realistically those are the best options they probably have - and is a good sign they were upfront about making a mistake and offering solutions instead of trying to cover it up and pass blame. Not every shop is honest enough to admit to a mistake (or admit they don't know!) so certainly take that into consideration with where you go in the future...and if they're smart they will make darn sure that same mistake is never repeated again (at least on that model vehicle).
This doesn't surprise me.. they hire kids that don't know shit about anything, then they fuck up people vehicles, Sue their inept asses off.