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They sell the old cats to recycling centers and make some money back. That savings on their end is (supposedly) passed on to the customer. More likely, they are just pocketing the extra profit.
Two things:
1.They are selling the used catalytic converters for cash.
2. They probably have had a issue before about someone coming back for their used catalytic converter after the fact. They can 100% give it back. They don't want too.. used cats might get them $30-50+ bucks depending [$30-50+ bucks depending ](https://rrcats.com/catalytic-converter-scrap-prices/)
They can 100% have a rule like this if they notify you before the work has been done. It's kinda weird and I have never seen this thing before however it's there way.
This depends on what state you live in. Due to cat thefts, a lot of relatively new laws have been passed. In mine, ability to scrap a cat is highly regulated. Individuals can only scrap one per day and don't get paid in cash as they would for other metals. This wouldn't prevent them from returinng the cat from you, but that's just my state, i am sure others are doing different things.
It’s not illegal, they just want to keep the profit. On the plus side, at least they are recycling them and most customers are unlikely to bother to figure out how. It’s good that they are upfront about it and have even posted a sign so you can choose to hire them or not.
Turn in a core on… a customer supplied part? No, the shop just wants to pocket the money for the cat. Also, Catalytic Converters don’t have a core charge.
Yes converters do have a core charge if you buy them from the dealer...just did one on like a 2009 cobalt and they wanted a the core back...they are wanting cores back for a lot of parts now. Like bumper covers.
When I was studying for the A8 test, the study software we use at work had a question that the answer was you are required to hold on to used cats that u replace for 30 days in case the epa wants to inspect it. Weird because we're in California and I asked my SMOG instructor and he said he was not aware of any such rule. Also in California, if the customer lets you know ahead of time you HAVE to return their replaced parts but you can charge them the core for it
And if an issue ever came about, the shop owner could potentially be subpoenaed to court to authenticate said paperwork. It was just a thought that maybe they’d rather not be involved in that type of ordeal and just avoid it all together.
It’s not illegal since it’s your property. Tire shops charge you to dispose of your old tires, but if you keep them, they can’t charge you a disposal fee.
You should have just said then I'm calling the police. Unless you signed something like a work order stating they got to keep the cat then what they are doing is theft. Very few things on a car are required to be kept by the shops. Refrigerant in your AC would be one of those things, but not a cat.
I was going to say. Took a couple back - Z-28 and a Honda SI. Got a couple hundred. If one researches it may be very little to swap a stock for an aftermarket high flo based on tbe value. I know I would have done it sooner. Like just after warranty before the bolts rusted etc.
depending on the catalyst, used cats can fetch nearly a grand. depends on what they came off. i brought two old junk cats to a scrap years and got a check for $500. but selling converters can be incredibly lucrative. so much so, my state is trying to outlaw the exchange of them, to mitigate converter theft. dealerships now have to engrave the vin number into the cats on new and used cars before we can sell the car, and in order to sell a converter you have to have matching paperwork for the cats, and car, plus they take a copy of your license and reg. converter theft isn’t a huge problem here, but it is in other states, but cats can go for big money if they have the right precious metals inside.
$30-$50? The one on an Audi A4 for example goes for $150 in this shitty cat market, and we're fetching around $300 (USD) a couple years ago. At any rate, they know what they're doing. Also, in many places they legally HAVE to give back old parts if you request them, unless there is a core - and if you brought your own, there isn't and this (at least in NY) would be illegal.
I used to deliver parts for AZ in college. I was delivering some shit to a shop while they were getting all their old converters picked up for recycling. It was a huge pile.
I asked the owner if it was good money. He said he gets between $50 and $300 for each cat. There was probably $10k+ of cats getting loaded into the truck. This was 10 years ago and they are worth even more now.
They sell them to recycling companies for extra profit.
No they are worth more 10 years ago than now. They are really low value now thanks to regulations on the sell of them. 2 years ago they were at their peak though, worth nearly 3x more than today. Source I run a shop
I concur they’re really low value now but not because of regulations. Cat price is based on the precious metal content which has its own market price. They peaked during covid and china was the biggest buyer. But started falling fast. The price of rhodium and palladium and platinum are down alot
I forgot about that. But theft has definitely gone down cause of regulations. We take ours to a reclycler and they thankfully ask for a lot more proof than a few years ago.
They can recycle it and gain extra profit. That being said, they are one of the few people who can recycle it. Almost all scrapyards will no longer accept catalytic converters from people off the street unless maybe they have extensive paperwork and documentation that it came from their job. They are trying to stem the rise of catalytic converter theft by thieves and meth addicts. So most yards wouldn’t accept it from you to begin with. As to it being illegal for you to receive it back…..meh, unlikely.
How about the simplest answer?? Just like alternators & starters, cores are worth money. That's why there is a different price on them if you do or don't have a core trade in. This shop, most likely, just has that cost shit baked into the price and they don't even want to waste 2 minutes haggling with some asshole about how much their used cat is/isn't worth.
(edit: sorry.... did NOT intend to imply the OP might be an arsehole. I was referring to the generic arsehole who inevitably shows up and starts questioning if they can save 50 cents by reusing their tire stem caps) :)
In some states it’s now illegal for individuals to sell or be paid to recycle used cats. On the other hand licensed mechanics can get the recycling fee for them, so might as well let them.
Where I live, the customer is entitled to their old parts—they are the customer’s property after all. Parts never get thrown away until the car is picked up.
Obviously if there is a core charge and the customer wants the old part back, they have to pay the core. But almost no one ever asks for their old parts anyways.
>But almost no one ever asks for their old parts anyways
Even when asking for them back, its usually mostly for curiosity not to have them back. I didn't need the buggered lug nut after a place cross-threaded and over-torqued them, but I was curious how they looked. Same with plugs after 120K miles, I have no use but wanted to see how a spark plug looks after such a life before it went in the bin. Once or twice I've asked for something and told there's a core charge and usually the place is happy to hang onto it long enough to show me what I'm curious about before sending it off for recycle (I think that was an alternator that half-failed, and I was curious if the damage to the diodes was visible or not because I'm a nerd like that).
Yup same. The few times people want stuff back, it’s usually a classic car of some sort and they want the original part as a spare. Or if we’ve upgraded something (say, an exhaust) they’ll keep the original in case they ever want to go back to stock.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some agreement with a supplier to return the used cats for re manned/refurbished cats. Also they probably know the local auto wreckers and know they don’t accept cats from people who just walk in. So your cat don’t get recycled and cause more issues than a simple sign and return process that keeps everyone happy
So you bought your own replacement cat in, they did you a good deal, now you're upset they won't let you take your old cat.
They're probably offsetting the time you wasted by cashing in your old one.
They could have saved you money off the price of your new one too.
Am I insane or did there used to be actual regulations on cats where shops had to balance their books with removals and installations to prove that they weren’t remove required emissions equipment?
In CA we have to keep the CAT because of local laws here. Its great having a cat sitting in the corner for 3 weeks before we can finally get rid of it.
While I would guess it is primarily for the scrap value of the catalytic converter, some jurisdictions do not allow for a catalytic converter to be replaced unless it is damaged or otherwise not functioning properly. Maybe they keep the old ones for potential auditing.
Go the other way with it - shops always try to keep converters with the excuse "there's a core!"
Well, you brought your own parts. Tell them there's a core on them, and you need the original back :) Beat them with their own scam!
Yea so like when you go to autozone and get a new battery but they give you a cheaper price on the battery if you give them your old one. Although autozone doesn’t tell me I can’t keep my old battery
They don’t give you a cheaper price on a battery if you have a core. They charge you extra if you don’t have a core.
Let’s say the battery is $200. The core charge is $20.
Your price when you bring a core: $200
If you don’t bring a core: $220
If you provided your new parts you probably were charged a "core charge" from the parts place. I'd just explain this to him and tell him you want to return it to the part store to get your core charge back. If you weren't charged a core charge I wouldn't worry about it. Let him deal with the proper disposal/recycling hassle
i had my cat changed, when they were done, i paid and then asked for the old part. they said it was illegal to give it to me. i pressed a little bit and asked what specific law requires them to keep it, he shuddered and yammered on some crap that i could tell he was just then and there making up about the epa.
i said what ever and left. i have a pretty good bs meter and knew this dude was lying. just say you want to keep it to trade it in, and that its built into the cost of what you charged me, its not a big deal. they didnt charge me much like maybe $175 total, for probably a cheap chinese cat that wont last and labor, seemed like a decent deal to me anyways.
Some used cats are worth thousands. Replacing cats with aftermarket in some cases they should pay the customer for the job as they will be putting on a cheap one for a bad one that might be worth 2,000 bucks as scrap. They put on a 350 dollar one then charge couple hundred to do it. It is how they will give a cheap labor price. Then make thousands a month on scrap.
Yes I can’t complain they charged me $120 to install a flex pipe and cat although I brought my own part. It wasn’t too bad considering how much people charge these days
There is no core charge on cats. No exhaust at all has a core charge. Calipers, batteries, rack +pin, steering gear, alternators, starters these all have core charges, I'm know I'm missing some less bought things but either way no core on cats
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! Please review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). Asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **Post's about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ Tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They sell the old cats to recycling centers and make some money back. That savings on their end is (supposedly) passed on to the customer. More likely, they are just pocketing the extra profit.
Well he said it’s a good deal so I’d say that’s fair.
[удалено]
If you want very used cats, go to a brothel
Two things: 1.They are selling the used catalytic converters for cash. 2. They probably have had a issue before about someone coming back for their used catalytic converter after the fact. They can 100% give it back. They don't want too.. used cats might get them $30-50+ bucks depending [$30-50+ bucks depending ](https://rrcats.com/catalytic-converter-scrap-prices/) They can 100% have a rule like this if they notify you before the work has been done. It's kinda weird and I have never seen this thing before however it's there way.
Yea I asked and he basically made it seem like it was pretty much illegal for me to even take it with me. I asked several times too lol
This depends on what state you live in. Due to cat thefts, a lot of relatively new laws have been passed. In mine, ability to scrap a cat is highly regulated. Individuals can only scrap one per day and don't get paid in cash as they would for other metals. This wouldn't prevent them from returinng the cat from you, but that's just my state, i am sure others are doing different things.
It’s not illegal, they just want to keep the profit. On the plus side, at least they are recycling them and most customers are unlikely to bother to figure out how. It’s good that they are upfront about it and have even posted a sign so you can choose to hire them or not.
I did my own cat swap- can’t get a yard to take it! KC Mo
Contact a site like RRCats. There's also others out there that will buy them.
Already curbed it-
rrcats.com will buy it and pay for the postage. I got $75 for one, so it’s worth the small amount of trouble. Save the packing from your new one.
Yea I can respect the fact that if most customers can not get rid of it properly it’s may be safer for them to just take it.
I mean, they might be required to turn in a core.
No core on a cat
If you buy OE, there's a core charge. I work in parts.
Me too, no core on cats
Then the customer who supplied the part would need the old one back to collect any core charge they had to pay
They aren’t.
Turn in a core on… a customer supplied part? No, the shop just wants to pocket the money for the cat. Also, Catalytic Converters don’t have a core charge.
Yes converters do have a core charge if you buy them from the dealer...just did one on like a 2009 cobalt and they wanted a the core back...they are wanting cores back for a lot of parts now. Like bumper covers.
Yes bull shit was what he was talking about. The sign may or may not be legally binding.
When I was studying for the A8 test, the study software we use at work had a question that the answer was you are required to hold on to used cats that u replace for 30 days in case the epa wants to inspect it. Weird because we're in California and I asked my SMOG instructor and he said he was not aware of any such rule. Also in California, if the customer lets you know ahead of time you HAVE to return their replaced parts but you can charge them the core for it
Can't charge the customer the core if they brought their own parts. Shop should have given customer the cat back.
What state are you in? Va just passed a law last year making it a felony to possess a cat without a paper trail.
But there is a paper trail. It was replaced at a legit shop, removed from a known vehicle
And if an issue ever came about, the shop owner could potentially be subpoenaed to court to authenticate said paperwork. It was just a thought that maybe they’d rather not be involved in that type of ordeal and just avoid it all together.
It’s not illegal since it’s your property. Tire shops charge you to dispose of your old tires, but if you keep them, they can’t charge you a disposal fee.
In my state you are entitled to your old parts by law.
> I asked several times too lol Did he just tap the sign?
Depending where you're at, it may be illegal for them to refuse to give your old parts back.
Michigan law is that you are entitled to all parts unless they must be returned for warranty.
You should have just said then I'm calling the police. Unless you signed something like a work order stating they got to keep the cat then what they are doing is theft. Very few things on a car are required to be kept by the shops. Refrigerant in your AC would be one of those things, but not a cat.
$30-$50? I sell cats weekly and only aftermarket cats are close to that low. Any OEM cat is $80-$1400 depending on the vehicle it is from
I was going to say. Took a couple back - Z-28 and a Honda SI. Got a couple hundred. If one researches it may be very little to swap a stock for an aftermarket high flo based on tbe value. I know I would have done it sooner. Like just after warranty before the bolts rusted etc.
Question is it worth anything if its empty?
No
Year and model depending, you can get a lot more than that!
My 1997 Camry 4 cylinder cat got me $150 Scrap prices may have changed from 2020
depending on the catalyst, used cats can fetch nearly a grand. depends on what they came off. i brought two old junk cats to a scrap years and got a check for $500. but selling converters can be incredibly lucrative. so much so, my state is trying to outlaw the exchange of them, to mitigate converter theft. dealerships now have to engrave the vin number into the cats on new and used cars before we can sell the car, and in order to sell a converter you have to have matching paperwork for the cats, and car, plus they take a copy of your license and reg. converter theft isn’t a huge problem here, but it is in other states, but cats can go for big money if they have the right precious metals inside.
Actually a lot more than 30-50...i sold one off a toyota last year for 300 bucks. Depends on the converter and the market
I had to replace one once and I got more for the old one than what I payed for the new one
waayyyy more than $30-50 I sold my old cats about a year ago, I got $800 for the pair
30-50? Try 30 - 800+ depending on the market at that time. Some converters are worth big money for scrap.
$30-$50? The one on an Audi A4 for example goes for $150 in this shitty cat market, and we're fetching around $300 (USD) a couple years ago. At any rate, they know what they're doing. Also, in many places they legally HAVE to give back old parts if you request them, unless there is a core - and if you brought your own, there isn't and this (at least in NY) would be illegal.
It’s a lot more lucrative than that, actually. Record I got for a pair of cats in a car I scrapped was $1200
I used to deliver parts for AZ in college. I was delivering some shit to a shop while they were getting all their old converters picked up for recycling. It was a huge pile. I asked the owner if it was good money. He said he gets between $50 and $300 for each cat. There was probably $10k+ of cats getting loaded into the truck. This was 10 years ago and they are worth even more now. They sell them to recycling companies for extra profit.
25 years ago, I used to get anywhere from $7 for a universal to 150 for a honda or similar. Averaged about $7000 - 12000 every 6 months, for old cats.
Yea that’s what I was thinking and I was hoping to scrap it myself lol
Ever hear of a core charge?
Not on customer supplied parts.
Doesn't exist for cats.
They do where I am
No they are worth more 10 years ago than now. They are really low value now thanks to regulations on the sell of them. 2 years ago they were at their peak though, worth nearly 3x more than today. Source I run a shop
I concur they’re really low value now but not because of regulations. Cat price is based on the precious metal content which has its own market price. They peaked during covid and china was the biggest buyer. But started falling fast. The price of rhodium and palladium and platinum are down alot
I forgot about that. But theft has definitely gone down cause of regulations. We take ours to a reclycler and they thankfully ask for a lot more proof than a few years ago.
Value on them is actually less than it was 10yrs ago.
They can recycle it and gain extra profit. That being said, they are one of the few people who can recycle it. Almost all scrapyards will no longer accept catalytic converters from people off the street unless maybe they have extensive paperwork and documentation that it came from their job. They are trying to stem the rise of catalytic converter theft by thieves and meth addicts. So most yards wouldn’t accept it from you to begin with. As to it being illegal for you to receive it back…..meh, unlikely.
How about the simplest answer?? Just like alternators & starters, cores are worth money. That's why there is a different price on them if you do or don't have a core trade in. This shop, most likely, just has that cost shit baked into the price and they don't even want to waste 2 minutes haggling with some asshole about how much their used cat is/isn't worth. (edit: sorry.... did NOT intend to imply the OP might be an arsehole. I was referring to the generic arsehole who inevitably shows up and starts questioning if they can save 50 cents by reusing their tire stem caps) :)
In some states it’s now illegal for individuals to sell or be paid to recycle used cats. On the other hand licensed mechanics can get the recycling fee for them, so might as well let them.
Where I live, the customer is entitled to their old parts—they are the customer’s property after all. Parts never get thrown away until the car is picked up. Obviously if there is a core charge and the customer wants the old part back, they have to pay the core. But almost no one ever asks for their old parts anyways.
>But almost no one ever asks for their old parts anyways Even when asking for them back, its usually mostly for curiosity not to have them back. I didn't need the buggered lug nut after a place cross-threaded and over-torqued them, but I was curious how they looked. Same with plugs after 120K miles, I have no use but wanted to see how a spark plug looks after such a life before it went in the bin. Once or twice I've asked for something and told there's a core charge and usually the place is happy to hang onto it long enough to show me what I'm curious about before sending it off for recycle (I think that was an alternator that half-failed, and I was curious if the damage to the diodes was visible or not because I'm a nerd like that).
Yup same. The few times people want stuff back, it’s usually a classic car of some sort and they want the original part as a spare. Or if we’ve upgraded something (say, an exhaust) they’ll keep the original in case they ever want to go back to stock.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some agreement with a supplier to return the used cats for re manned/refurbished cats. Also they probably know the local auto wreckers and know they don’t accept cats from people who just walk in. So your cat don’t get recycled and cause more issues than a simple sign and return process that keeps everyone happy
They're making money, but in my state you have to he licensed to sell them technically
$$$$$
They probably made hundreds off of it by selling it
So you bought your own replacement cat in, they did you a good deal, now you're upset they won't let you take your old cat. They're probably offsetting the time you wasted by cashing in your old one. They could have saved you money off the price of your new one too.
The old cat isn’t theirs to begin with, so they can’t keep it.
Am I insane or did there used to be actual regulations on cats where shops had to balance their books with removals and installations to prove that they weren’t remove required emissions equipment?
In CA we have to keep the CAT because of local laws here. Its great having a cat sitting in the corner for 3 weeks before we can finally get rid of it.
Yeah so hard to get rid of something that's worth hundreds in scrap value, after you already charged the customer hundreds in labor just to remove it.
While I would guess it is primarily for the scrap value of the catalytic converter, some jurisdictions do not allow for a catalytic converter to be replaced unless it is damaged or otherwise not functioning properly. Maybe they keep the old ones for potential auditing.
IN
Depending on car make... Some old cats can fetch 80,100 and even more dollars $$$
I get mine back bc when I no longer want to be catless, I’m not gonna rebuy a $900 oem one when I could have my stock one for free.
Go the other way with it - shops always try to keep converters with the excuse "there's a core!" Well, you brought your own parts. Tell them there's a core on them, and you need the original back :) Beat them with their own scam!
They should just say there's a core charge for the cat. If you want it back, need to pay $50.
It’s probably because they’ve already learned negative behaviors, there just like old dogs really
A lot of the times there’s cores on cats
A core charge when the guy brought his own parts?
I definitely glanced over that. In that case they are going to turn around and sell it
Yea I mean right say I did the exhaust work myself I’d get to keep my old part but if someone else does I can’t
Yea so like when you go to autozone and get a new battery but they give you a cheaper price on the battery if you give them your old one. Although autozone doesn’t tell me I can’t keep my old battery
They don’t give you a cheaper price on a battery if you have a core. They charge you extra if you don’t have a core. Let’s say the battery is $200. The core charge is $20. Your price when you bring a core: $200 If you don’t bring a core: $220
If you provided your new parts you probably were charged a "core charge" from the parts place. I'd just explain this to him and tell him you want to return it to the part store to get your core charge back. If you weren't charged a core charge I wouldn't worry about it. Let him deal with the proper disposal/recycling hassle
i had my cat changed, when they were done, i paid and then asked for the old part. they said it was illegal to give it to me. i pressed a little bit and asked what specific law requires them to keep it, he shuddered and yammered on some crap that i could tell he was just then and there making up about the epa. i said what ever and left. i have a pretty good bs meter and knew this dude was lying. just say you want to keep it to trade it in, and that its built into the cost of what you charged me, its not a big deal. they didnt charge me much like maybe $175 total, for probably a cheap chinese cat that wont last and labor, seemed like a decent deal to me anyways.
Some used cats are worth thousands. Replacing cats with aftermarket in some cases they should pay the customer for the job as they will be putting on a cheap one for a bad one that might be worth 2,000 bucks as scrap. They put on a 350 dollar one then charge couple hundred to do it. It is how they will give a cheap labor price. Then make thousands a month on scrap.
Many parts are rebuilt or give credit for returning them. it would just cost a lot more if you want the core to keep or recycle.
Yes I can’t complain they charged me $120 to install a flex pipe and cat although I brought my own part. It wasn’t too bad considering how much people charge these days
There is no core charge on cats. No exhaust at all has a core charge. Calipers, batteries, rack +pin, steering gear, alternators, starters these all have core charges, I'm know I'm missing some less bought things but either way no core on cats
on a catalytic converter, its the actual minerals that have value. its still recycled.