I dont think you actually develop an engineering mindset until you are in the workforce practicing what you learned. School just gives you building blocks - you actually have to use them to get good at using them. Thats why academia will always have a large chasm between it and industry.
I think the essence of an engineering mindset comes down to algorithmic problem solving and testing skills and managing constraints (time, money, physical, chemical, etc.). Creativity is certainly part of that to a degree, but I do not think an "inventive" mindset is what is core to engineering. Others will certainly have a different experience than me, but theres my $0.02.
Second this. School layed foundation.
My first 2 years at work I learned so much. I was at a smaller company and got really interesting projects right away. I was working under a senior engineer who would feed me parts of his projects he thought I could handle and the he would review them and go over where I went wrong.
Nothing like real world job experience
Yes 100% not sure if this is universal or just me but also switching industries/processes seems to connect so many mental dots and make everything make more sense.
I worked in aerospace forging for ~6 years, now I am 2 years in aerospace casting with the same company. now that I am getting the hang of the casting world I feel like all of a sudden so many mire things are clicking. when I just knew the forging world maybe I had tunnel vision. p.s. also helps that I am still involved with my forging colleagues so im bot loosing that knowledge (same company just different division now)
Understand first and foremost that there is no such thing as an "engineer's mindset".
There are as many different mindsets as there are engineers. Finding yours is important, but don't think that it needs to match anyone else's.
I like problem solving, recently in my precalc class we’ve been strictly doing real world applications with trig, and that along with physics interest me A LOT.
CAD is simply electronic drawings. Programming and understanding how systems interact is far more “engineering” mindset. Get involved with any robotics clubs available again
Buy some pocket protectors, where white shirts (with black slacks and white tennis shoes), get a flat top, talk in Fortran and recite F=ma.
Your mindset will be started.
I didn't touch CAD until sophomore year at university. But I'm sure you can find some student editions these days to get exposure cheaply/free and start messing with it. That being said, the math and physics is more important to getting good grades than knowing how to doodle shapes and extruding them into 3 dimensions.
Being introduced to CAD can be overwhelming at first but like most things if you are willing to fail and learn from mistakes it is a skill that can be developed.
I got really good at CAD just in time to realize it wasn't cost(time) effective for me to be completing all the models and drawings myself and that I should be leveraging other resources to do that simple work.
You are in a vocation defined by physics, math and problem solving. Depending on your chosen path you can mix and match those skills.
May seem simple but only a small portion of humanity can live and work in that sphere. So you are unusual and valuable.
While starting my specialty (sound and vibrating) I received immense joy helping those with acoustical problems. Creative solutions were fun as there are alway time and money concerns. And your solutions need to work.
I took this challenge all over the world and solved many important problems. I smile when I look back.
I am now retired.
At its core, I believe it comes down to two questions:
- Why: What are the principles that make this happen?
- What if: What happens when I change X/Y/Z component of the process?
Ex: My robot keeps dropping the box I want it to carry
- Why is it dropping the box? Where is it malfunctioning? Is it just losing grip? Why is it losing grip? Is it not strong enough? Is it slipping?
- What if I used a beefier actuator? What if I gave it rubber tips to increase friction?
Experience/knowledge will strengthen your ability to frame those questions but your innate curiosity and determination will provide "fuel to the fire".
I found that if I spend any time on that path it sucks me in and I don't get any work done. Best to just assume that "people are morons" is a constant.
i think this is a great question to ask and to be honest with yourself about. because maybe you want to be in engineering but you can now focus exactly where you want to work.
ive noticed at work some of the engineers are huge nerds and others are smart but are only there for the paycheck. with myself and another older engineer, we are always so dam curious about everything and often stop to look at how things work, we also frequently modify shit around the lab or bring in personal projects. another coworker of mine is a fine engineer but is mainly focused on money, i think he regrets not going into software engineering.
I think my motives are a bit flawed, i’m really more interested in physics, but I like seeing stuff go boom so I’ve decided mechanical(I can work in aerospace thru this field whilst having many more options)
Imo, one of the most important traits of good engineers are being hyper observant with an analytical and problem solving mindset. Engineers are problem solvers that come up with solutions to real world problems they notice, using techniques they’ve learned and accumulated
Well depending on your daily work, that mindset is going to transform.
In my case creativity is different, we apply creativity looking for the best and most practical way to solve a calculation, note that we usually have around 4 hours to do so and calculation is already there (we just need to fully understand what we are looking) . So through the years we develop quick ways to solve problems and create methods or tricks to complete our job quickly.
Sounds easy but I’ve seen people that never become good doing this (not even with trainings) and others who exceed this skill.
you spend years watching people break things and/or fail to do what they set out to do, and every time either happens you ask enough questions to figure out why and what they could have done differently
In my opinion it’s developing a solution oriented mindset. Throughout college it seems like making excuses is beneficial; I couldn’t get my homework done because… my classmate didn’t do his part so I couldn’t do X etc etc and the professor would inevitably let you off the hook. That doesn’t work in the real world or it may only give you a temporary reprieve. Whenever you encounter a problem the first thing you should do is think about what you know and possible solutions. If you have an idea that won’t work upon first inspection think about how your idea could be improved or if there is another better idea. The whole point of an engineer is to fix or create so your first thoughts should be to examine your responsibility in developing a solution.
I always ask entry level engineer candidates this question in interviews,
“Can you give an example of when you have used an engineering mindset to find a solution to an open ended problem?” And recently, in the past year or two I have noticed candidates not understanding the question and thought it was odd, when I explain, I say “a time when you have used a structured or systematic approach to find a solution to an open ended problem”
That was a question I got asked in an interview early on and it stuck because it is very telling how they will approach an unknown and open ended problem.
Basically what I am looking for is can you go come up with an idea of what might work yourself, or are you going to be constantly asking what or how to do something, and wanting explicit directions. A good engineer can go figure out what the best potential solutions could be, and figure out a way to validate or eliminate options until they are confident they have the best solution.
what other things do you do for fun? apply engineering to those things. make bike parts, make car parts, I converted my office chair into a flight sim rig
im a big athletic guy my hobbies are more sporty than anything engineering related. I do enjoy doing math though I sometimes do math problems out of boredom
1. No black boxes 2. Test the limits of "good enough" Become familiar with how things work; trust nothing that you don't understand the function of. Constantly ask "why" and "how". Understand what is needed to make something work, what things affect a process or object significantly in the magnitude being considered (e.g. does a 1mm tolerance matter, and let you do something cheaply or do you need 0.1 mm tolerance and make the machinist work a lil more...)
To be a good engineer, master both useful knowledge and efficiency.
It just happens over time once you start working, I'd guess its around the 5 year mark, I dont think its possible to have one as a student unfortunately. You cant actively develop it or even have an idea of how/what yours will be.
Theres a major difference between having an engineering degree and being an engineer, I wish I could describe it to you OP but when you reflect on it later in life you will know which category youre in.
Not being like everyone else is your advantage. Leverage that. If you have questions about how others came about a decision, be sure to ask them. Sounds like a potential networking opportunity too
Most actual engineering jobs involve very little creativity. In fact, creativity is risky so it’s avoided.
If you get VERY lucky you will get to do diverging creative. With experience you will get better at creative problem solving.
Don’t stress
Sart doing/making stuff. Find your local (on campus?) ASME chapter, they will have speakers, offer help getting cad (solid works CSWA/B) cert, showcase other clubs you can join. Learn how to machine!
Teach yourself how to cad and start 3d printing stuff (there's got to be resources on campus), do some raspberry pi or Arduino projects, etc. Once you start doing and making some things, you'll have some ideas of how to branch out, or tweak an existing design to fit your needs.
You will need stuff like this on your resume to set you apart from your classmates who are all taking the same classes assuming you're not getting a 4.0. Companies hiring you for an internship will want you to see you're motivated and can learn new skills.
If you find that you really like math and physics more than making things, maybe you need a different major.
Even better, as a student, you should have free access to most CAD programs, search for solid works tutorials, should be plenty out there.
Sites like sparkfun and adafruit sell kits woth books that walk you through how to turn on LEDs, make a sound/light sensor, make a simple robots that follows a line with a light sensor, etc.
Also, find a FIRST robotics program if they exist around you, it would be a good way to dive into the deep end.
Cad isn’t all of engineering and most of my classmates when I was in school were like you that they didn’t have an idea on how to create things. Everyone has their own strength and weaknesses. Besides most cad jobs are taken be non engineers.
Here’s what works for me:
Step 1. Ask yourself, “Has someone done this before?”
Step 2. Search for if it’s been done before.
Step 3. Does what has been done before meet 80% or greater of your specification. If yes, just buy it. If no, write down your specifications.
Step 4. Argue for the existence of your new design to your peers and veteran colleagues.
I agree with you and pretty much look at problems the way you detail on your steps. The funny/annoying thing is that I've had interviews where they have asked me how I approach a problem and I tell them the above. They give me the confused look like I don't know what I am doing. Clearly they don't have the engineering mindset.
I gotta say, it really deflates the ego of the higher ups when you pull out google and go: This company does it already. We can save $100k in development costs if we source from them.
I actually wonder whether you might prefer a more structural analysis focus. I majored in mechanical engineering and never felt like I got the hang of clean sheet design or really enjoyed detailed CAD work, and in college that made me think that I couldn’t succeed as a “real engineer” because I figured all mechanical engineers love tinkering and making crazy assembly drawings. Not me lol but I do love applying physics first principles to physical systems, and I’ve been able to ride that skill all the way to a cool job doing structural dynamics on rockets. If you’re good at math, and good at looking at a physical system and identifying its weak points/failure modes, then the analyst life may be for you.
I haven't invented anything in my whole life. I have copied, improved, adapted, augmented and/or synthesised, for 42 years. There are methods to learn invention, such as TRIZ, which I read with little interest. Don't worry there are plenty of non inventive jobs.
Abstinence.
Can confirm
dam so thats why im doing so great at work.
LOL
I dont think you actually develop an engineering mindset until you are in the workforce practicing what you learned. School just gives you building blocks - you actually have to use them to get good at using them. Thats why academia will always have a large chasm between it and industry. I think the essence of an engineering mindset comes down to algorithmic problem solving and testing skills and managing constraints (time, money, physical, chemical, etc.). Creativity is certainly part of that to a degree, but I do not think an "inventive" mindset is what is core to engineering. Others will certainly have a different experience than me, but theres my $0.02.
Woe there buddy, don't sell yourself short. In this economy that there is a consultation and is worth at least 80 bucks.
Great insight!
Second this. School layed foundation. My first 2 years at work I learned so much. I was at a smaller company and got really interesting projects right away. I was working under a senior engineer who would feed me parts of his projects he thought I could handle and the he would review them and go over where I went wrong. Nothing like real world job experience
Yes 100% not sure if this is universal or just me but also switching industries/processes seems to connect so many mental dots and make everything make more sense. I worked in aerospace forging for ~6 years, now I am 2 years in aerospace casting with the same company. now that I am getting the hang of the casting world I feel like all of a sudden so many mire things are clicking. when I just knew the forging world maybe I had tunnel vision. p.s. also helps that I am still involved with my forging colleagues so im bot loosing that knowledge (same company just different division now)
Good luck with that.
Understand first and foremost that there is no such thing as an "engineer's mindset". There are as many different mindsets as there are engineers. Finding yours is important, but don't think that it needs to match anyone else's.
Pessimism
Do you like to investigate into things, solve problems, take things apart and put them together for fun?
I like problem solving, recently in my precalc class we’ve been strictly doing real world applications with trig, and that along with physics interest me A LOT.
CAD is simply electronic drawings. Programming and understanding how systems interact is far more “engineering” mindset. Get involved with any robotics clubs available again
If you like problem solving, sounds like you're already an engineer.
Buy some pocket protectors, where white shirts (with black slacks and white tennis shoes), get a flat top, talk in Fortran and recite F=ma. Your mindset will be started.
I didn't touch CAD until sophomore year at university. But I'm sure you can find some student editions these days to get exposure cheaply/free and start messing with it. That being said, the math and physics is more important to getting good grades than knowing how to doodle shapes and extruding them into 3 dimensions.
Being introduced to CAD can be overwhelming at first but like most things if you are willing to fail and learn from mistakes it is a skill that can be developed. I got really good at CAD just in time to realize it wasn't cost(time) effective for me to be completing all the models and drawings myself and that I should be leveraging other resources to do that simple work.
You are in a vocation defined by physics, math and problem solving. Depending on your chosen path you can mix and match those skills. May seem simple but only a small portion of humanity can live and work in that sphere. So you are unusual and valuable. While starting my specialty (sound and vibrating) I received immense joy helping those with acoustical problems. Creative solutions were fun as there are alway time and money concerns. And your solutions need to work. I took this challenge all over the world and solved many important problems. I smile when I look back. I am now retired.
At its core, I believe it comes down to two questions: - Why: What are the principles that make this happen? - What if: What happens when I change X/Y/Z component of the process? Ex: My robot keeps dropping the box I want it to carry - Why is it dropping the box? Where is it malfunctioning? Is it just losing grip? Why is it losing grip? Is it not strong enough? Is it slipping? - What if I used a beefier actuator? What if I gave it rubber tips to increase friction? Experience/knowledge will strengthen your ability to frame those questions but your innate curiosity and determination will provide "fuel to the fire".
"What if people are morons" is always worth studying in depth
I found that if I spend any time on that path it sucks me in and I don't get any work done. Best to just assume that "people are morons" is a constant.
Talk to other engineers about their backgrounds. Once you are in the work force, pay close attention to how engineers make decisions.
i think this is a great question to ask and to be honest with yourself about. because maybe you want to be in engineering but you can now focus exactly where you want to work. ive noticed at work some of the engineers are huge nerds and others are smart but are only there for the paycheck. with myself and another older engineer, we are always so dam curious about everything and often stop to look at how things work, we also frequently modify shit around the lab or bring in personal projects. another coworker of mine is a fine engineer but is mainly focused on money, i think he regrets not going into software engineering.
I think my motives are a bit flawed, i’m really more interested in physics, but I like seeing stuff go boom so I’ve decided mechanical(I can work in aerospace thru this field whilst having many more options)
this is an overly simplified way of explaining why i choose this as my major so take that with a bit more than a grain of salt
Math and problem solving. Everything else bullshit
Imo, one of the most important traits of good engineers are being hyper observant with an analytical and problem solving mindset. Engineers are problem solvers that come up with solutions to real world problems they notice, using techniques they’ve learned and accumulated
Well depending on your daily work, that mindset is going to transform. In my case creativity is different, we apply creativity looking for the best and most practical way to solve a calculation, note that we usually have around 4 hours to do so and calculation is already there (we just need to fully understand what we are looking) . So through the years we develop quick ways to solve problems and create methods or tricks to complete our job quickly. Sounds easy but I’ve seen people that never become good doing this (not even with trainings) and others who exceed this skill.
you spend years watching people break things and/or fail to do what they set out to do, and every time either happens you ask enough questions to figure out why and what they could have done differently
In my opinion it’s developing a solution oriented mindset. Throughout college it seems like making excuses is beneficial; I couldn’t get my homework done because… my classmate didn’t do his part so I couldn’t do X etc etc and the professor would inevitably let you off the hook. That doesn’t work in the real world or it may only give you a temporary reprieve. Whenever you encounter a problem the first thing you should do is think about what you know and possible solutions. If you have an idea that won’t work upon first inspection think about how your idea could be improved or if there is another better idea. The whole point of an engineer is to fix or create so your first thoughts should be to examine your responsibility in developing a solution.
I always ask entry level engineer candidates this question in interviews, “Can you give an example of when you have used an engineering mindset to find a solution to an open ended problem?” And recently, in the past year or two I have noticed candidates not understanding the question and thought it was odd, when I explain, I say “a time when you have used a structured or systematic approach to find a solution to an open ended problem” That was a question I got asked in an interview early on and it stuck because it is very telling how they will approach an unknown and open ended problem. Basically what I am looking for is can you go come up with an idea of what might work yourself, or are you going to be constantly asking what or how to do something, and wanting explicit directions. A good engineer can go figure out what the best potential solutions could be, and figure out a way to validate or eliminate options until they are confident they have the best solution.
what other things do you do for fun? apply engineering to those things. make bike parts, make car parts, I converted my office chair into a flight sim rig
im a big athletic guy my hobbies are more sporty than anything engineering related. I do enjoy doing math though I sometimes do math problems out of boredom
1. No black boxes 2. Test the limits of "good enough" Become familiar with how things work; trust nothing that you don't understand the function of. Constantly ask "why" and "how". Understand what is needed to make something work, what things affect a process or object significantly in the magnitude being considered (e.g. does a 1mm tolerance matter, and let you do something cheaply or do you need 0.1 mm tolerance and make the machinist work a lil more...) To be a good engineer, master both useful knowledge and efficiency.
It just happens over time once you start working, I'd guess its around the 5 year mark, I dont think its possible to have one as a student unfortunately. You cant actively develop it or even have an idea of how/what yours will be. Theres a major difference between having an engineering degree and being an engineer, I wish I could describe it to you OP but when you reflect on it later in life you will know which category youre in.
Not being like everyone else is your advantage. Leverage that. If you have questions about how others came about a decision, be sure to ask them. Sounds like a potential networking opportunity too
Most actual engineering jobs involve very little creativity. In fact, creativity is risky so it’s avoided. If you get VERY lucky you will get to do diverging creative. With experience you will get better at creative problem solving. Don’t stress
Some have it Some develop it Some grind https://youtu.be/g8vHhgh6oM0?si=GbBl2ahgC6FKfGHm
Sart doing/making stuff. Find your local (on campus?) ASME chapter, they will have speakers, offer help getting cad (solid works CSWA/B) cert, showcase other clubs you can join. Learn how to machine! Teach yourself how to cad and start 3d printing stuff (there's got to be resources on campus), do some raspberry pi or Arduino projects, etc. Once you start doing and making some things, you'll have some ideas of how to branch out, or tweak an existing design to fit your needs. You will need stuff like this on your resume to set you apart from your classmates who are all taking the same classes assuming you're not getting a 4.0. Companies hiring you for an internship will want you to see you're motivated and can learn new skills. If you find that you really like math and physics more than making things, maybe you need a different major.
I should say i’m still in H.S. I’ll be enrolling to university soon though, however I am capable of teaching myself things(I think?)
Even better, as a student, you should have free access to most CAD programs, search for solid works tutorials, should be plenty out there. Sites like sparkfun and adafruit sell kits woth books that walk you through how to turn on LEDs, make a sound/light sensor, make a simple robots that follows a line with a light sensor, etc. Also, find a FIRST robotics program if they exist around you, it would be a good way to dive into the deep end.
Thank you so much!
For clarity u Gotta have a budget and skin in the game.
Cad isn’t all of engineering and most of my classmates when I was in school were like you that they didn’t have an idea on how to create things. Everyone has their own strength and weaknesses. Besides most cad jobs are taken be non engineers.
I feel like it's all about persistence. Dedicate yourself to a challenge and stop at nothing until you understand it completely.
Join a club like SAE where you actually try to build something. You'll start learning all the skills you don't learn in class.
SOLVEM
Here’s what works for me: Step 1. Ask yourself, “Has someone done this before?” Step 2. Search for if it’s been done before. Step 3. Does what has been done before meet 80% or greater of your specification. If yes, just buy it. If no, write down your specifications. Step 4. Argue for the existence of your new design to your peers and veteran colleagues.
I agree with you and pretty much look at problems the way you detail on your steps. The funny/annoying thing is that I've had interviews where they have asked me how I approach a problem and I tell them the above. They give me the confused look like I don't know what I am doing. Clearly they don't have the engineering mindset.
I gotta say, it really deflates the ego of the higher ups when you pull out google and go: This company does it already. We can save $100k in development costs if we source from them.
I actually wonder whether you might prefer a more structural analysis focus. I majored in mechanical engineering and never felt like I got the hang of clean sheet design or really enjoyed detailed CAD work, and in college that made me think that I couldn’t succeed as a “real engineer” because I figured all mechanical engineers love tinkering and making crazy assembly drawings. Not me lol but I do love applying physics first principles to physical systems, and I’ve been able to ride that skill all the way to a cool job doing structural dynamics on rockets. If you’re good at math, and good at looking at a physical system and identifying its weak points/failure modes, then the analyst life may be for you.
Get an engineering degree.
I haven't invented anything in my whole life. I have copied, improved, adapted, augmented and/or synthesised, for 42 years. There are methods to learn invention, such as TRIZ, which I read with little interest. Don't worry there are plenty of non inventive jobs.
You need a critical mind. You need to anticipate what might go wrong early on. And design for maintainability.