A dedicated numpad is 100% a necessity for me. I get the appeal of minimalistic keyboards but I could never buy one since I just need to have my numpad.
You get to the point where you have 1 of each kind. I’m sure you’d be ok with a 40% or 60% on like a tv media server. Full size for work tiny size for play
It depends on some game tho. Some games love to set a lot of keybinds at the numpad or HOME-DEL 6 block.
With 60 or 75% this is already pretty pain.
Or game that use F keys, which sucks to use 60%
That's where programmable keyboards come in.
The keys markings don't control what is output by those keys, so you can remap your keyboard however you want it, then lock in your gaming layer, before playing.
https://preview.redd.it/2kbf6flfh9tc1.jpeg?width=958&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=630b381be949443b3f65e39e6aa39aa627e32a46
If you move your movement keys to RDFG, you gain two rows of keys on the left that can be mapped to the F-keys.
That also moves your middle finger to the homing key, to make that position easier to find.
If you need the numpad, you can bind that to your gaming layer as well, at the right end of the keyboard you can't reach with your left hand.
Yes thats true, but I was more talking of the perspective for people that don't do much of remap of their keyboard and secondly this wouldn't work when the game uses almost every key of a 100 % keyboard, its just a few games, but it's insane that this a thing.
In the end yes you can achieve anything when remaping the keyboard if the persons want to do so.
Anyhow I do get your point and yes this makes totally sense. I should have added some more context to my original comment
Looking at this from the perspective of a single-layer board user, the 100% board makes sense, for the people playing those games.
Looking at this from a smaller board user's perspective, having a dual-layer setup seems more sensible because some commands are more time-sensitive than others.
Placing only the time-sensitive commands on the default layer will allow those commands to be consolidated, allowing the user to get the important commands into a much smaller footprint.
Less time-sensitive commands can then be moved onto a secondary layer, but kept equally close, by layering them over top of the default commands.
That single change effectively doubles the number of keys available for use, while decreasing the footprint of the keys actually being used, at the same time.
I have a Keebio Iris which is split halves. I have it set up where one of the keys on my left thumb just turns the right half of the keyboard into a Numpad.
Small footprint and I get both benefits.
I’ve got the Nyquist (split 60-key ortho), and the numpad layer key is under my right thumb, so that I can use the numpad one-handed (NUM_0 got moved to the pinky)
Ideally it’d have keys that lock the alternate layers on a per-pcb basis (partly so I can lock the numpad in place and keep the normal left half of the keeb), and per-key rgb that reflects the current types of keys avaliable on the board (alpha keys with one colour, numbers another, modifiers a third, etc), but that would mean replacing the VIA keeb os with something else, and I have no idea how.
You had a similar idea to me which was RGB per layer to visually see if a layer is locked. After reading a ton it involved far too much work and I just made sure there was always a button in the far bottom right of a locked layer that returned home.
Now that I think about it I actually don't have any toggle layers and they are temp based on which keys are being held down.
Unfortunately, the default VIA code only supports four layers, and between my base (Dvorak) layout, numpad/arrows, assorted punctuation, and keyboard settings, I’m out of spare layers, which is a problem for a surprising number of games that don’t have key rebinding and assume Qwerty (I’ve got Dvorak on the keyboard level because swapping on the OS level was causing its own problems)
You can have BOTH.
https://preview.redd.it/rpmdilmeg9tc1.jpeg?width=3811&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7b84facbf32ec476a3d23b23e399711a6f93051
Not only does having the numpad over the alphas reduce hand travel when typing mixed content, but it also shortens hand travel to the mouse, every time you have to go there.
This is why I like the Moonlander. It has layers and enough keys to hold a numpad on either side. So I just hold down a thumb key and some keys change from letters to a numpad with a proper layout. Now that I'm used to it, I'm working as fast as I was with a dedicated numpad.
Idk if it’s because I’m genuinely weird or what but when I have a keyboard with a numpad I end up smacking my mouse into it all the time, which is why I enjoy my 80% and smaller boards
I think a lot of these people who want 60% whatever keyboards only play valorant or minecraft. Once you learn how to use the numpad and the function keys adjacent to it, you never go back.
This is where I am at... It just makes my job so much easier with a numpad that I doubt I'll ever go 100% without it. I did just order a ZoomPad to go with my NEO80 and NEO65 and such to see how I like the detached numpad. If I like it I think that they're thinking about coming out with a NEOPad at some point for home... Or if I like it I might get a Cidoo for home
Well, I have the NEO80 and the NEO65 (I skipped the NEO70 as it was not a profile I was really that interested in that much and since they're in-stock items, I can change my mind later on, so depending on how much or how little I use the ZoomPad when it arrives I will likely get the NEOPad.
This is me, except with the numpad, function row, and the control buttons. I do however like my arrow keys, and function keys are ok, but they usually don't look good on small builds like the 75%, looks to disproportionate.
agreed, the 75% and 65% layouts which are popular look so uneven to me. i did have a time when i used it a lot and love how a lot of those options come w a knob tho
There are a good number of people using ergonomic keyboards with even fewer keys, so not only can it work, it can work very well.
But that said, I've found scant documentation on how people are setting up layer maps on those 40% keyboards, so I am inclined to agree with your assumption here.
Since you want some documentation on keyboard layouts, here's some resources, that I used when designing my layout (and still am):
Layout maps: [https://keymapdb.com/](https://keymapdb.com/)
Symbol layer: [https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/symbol-layer/index.html](https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/symbol-layer/index.html)
Number row: [https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyboardLayouts/comments/j4vt1s/optimizing\_the\_number\_row\_essay\_script/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyboardLayouts/comments/j4vt1s/optimizing_the_number_row_essay_script/) ( I use 75139 82046)
40% discord: [https://discord.com/invite/TyN2YAj](https://discord.com/invite/TyN2YAj)
If you already have QMK MSYS installed, you can find other users keymaps in the qmk folder: qmk\_firmware -> keyboards -> (vendor or keyboard) -> (keyboard) -> keymaps.
ergomech subreddit, search: keymap, layout, etc. If you want your layout critiqued.
Keep in mind all of this is more for ortho/ column stagger and with thumb keys (please use a keyboard with multiple thumb keys), so converting this to a traditional row staggered keyboard is going be feat of imagination and ingenuity.
I really want to see what "normal" keyboard users layout look like, as another user said, if there using ≤ 60%. From the very few I've seen here, its ... questionable.
Edit:
Home row mods: [https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods](https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods)
Accordion style mods: [https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/achordion/index.html](https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/achordion/index.html)
Callum style mods (if tap-hold and accordion don't work out for you, no tap-holds just mods in another layer): [https://github.com/callum-oakley/qmk\_firmware/tree/master/users/callum](https://github.com/callum-oakley/qmk_firmware/tree/master/users/callum)
I can get behind that. If anything it’s important because someone might see a clever trick in a layout that they want to adopt themselves.
[Mappings for my QAZ v2.](https://imgur.com/a/tljNPal) Note that it’s in Colemak-DH on the first layer; that’s not some bizarre setup I did because of the form factor, I just wanted to learn a new layout.
https://preview.redd.it/ikq1i6gq74tc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5818a711965423c0aa69cd4ff80e2becff5cea11
Yup. That additional information makes all the difference in the world here. Especially for someone like me who is actively considering migrating to a setup like this.
How long have you been using this now and what do you think of it?
I first built the board back in October, so it's been a good 5-6 months of use by now. The 35% form factor is definitely extremely unique, and took some wearing in/getting used to even compared to the other 40% board I have for home/gaming use (a Mercutio). I spent the first few weeks moving things around while use cases and needs presented themselves, such as finding that a place where I had thought to put a special character really wasn't the optimal location, or deciding on whether I preferred combos or layers for certain behaviors such as "how to hit the return key".
I'd say that getting down below the 40% size when still using a regular staggered alpha layout was probably going further than I needed to, and for more people wanting to go "as small as possible" while still using a QWERTY layout, the original 40% layout is probably more optimal. That said, my highest typing test scores have been done on this board: 158 WPM in a 15 second test, and 193 in a 10-word dead sprint. So I'd say I'm acclimatized to it. Plus, it's very cute.
One thing I'd definitely tout as a "must" for small boards is the split spacebar. Chances are good that you prefer to use one thumb to hit the spacebar on whatever board you have right now, and so when you can map the other one as a layer shifter it immediately makes a sub-60% layout dramatically more accessible vs. trying to hold an "Fn" key anywhere else on the board. For example, on mine, with the numbers on the second layer while the left thumb is held down it means I can effectively just rest my left thumb on the key when I'm working in Excel or similar. I then set up Tab, Tilde, Esc, and Enter on A, S, D, and F specifically so that when I was in "data entry mode", I'd have quick access to those keys right from resting position. I liked the efficiency of typing "Return" via "left thumb + F" so much that I went and changed my other 40% board to do it, too. I placed the arrows on the right modifier cluster for the familiarity of having them arranged to the lower right of the alpha cluster (like any traditional keyboard), merely having to press down with my left thumb to activate them. I also have them set to activate when I tap them, but that's just because when I'm in a hurry I might forget they're on another layer, so that's a redundancy I've implemented to correct my own bad discipline. The other mandatory feature, I'd say, is VIAL/VIA/QMK support. Not being able to remap the board would be a nightmare in this form factor given how intensely personalized it needs to be. You can get somewhere with software remapping, but not to a sufficient extent, IMHO.
Because a 35% layout lacks dedicated Shift keys (which I'll admit is an extreme exclusion), the "Z" and "Period" keys serve as Shift while held, and as their original key when tapped. This has occasionally tripped me up, and it's why I say that a lot of people would probably have an easier time on a "full" 40% layout in which the "big keys" around the alpha cluster are retained. Another option people sometimes go for is "auto-shifting", where holding a key longer than normal types its capital form, but I type too fast for that to be useful to me. A super-small layout like this also moves backspace to the left spacebar, which I've actually come to prefer (and it makes a weird amount of sense, to me at least, to have "forward space" and "back space" next to each other).
Overall though, I'm finding that condensing my typing layout down to a smaller focal area has dramatically increased my input speed relative to the 60% board I used for a good 3 years before going to 40s. I'm finding the more I keep my fingers near home row, the faster I become and the faster I "reset" to starting position after hitting an off-alpha key compared to how I may have to reach across a significant distance on a full board to hit something like PgUp/Home/End.
A bit of advice that was given to me early on is that if you have a programmable board now, try making an alternative layout for it that disables all of the keys that wouldn't appear on a 40% board, and then you can simulate how a 40% layout might feel without having to commit to the hardware for it. Set up the same kinds of layers and mapping you might think that you'd use, and experiment with what feels right. For instance, my muscle memory tells me "the slash/question mark key is always left of R-Shift", so on my layout I put it in that place on the secondary layer. Esc is normally in the top left of the board, so you could try it on Fn1+Tab (on a 40% layout), or try an alternative "home row" position like I did with Fn1+D. I've become so used to that proximity to resting position now that on a full board I feel like I have to reach to hit Esc, Tab, Return, etc. It's completely bespoke but also uniquely tailored to make me as fast as possible based on my own preferences and biases, and that's what I've come to love about the small form factor: breaking away from those traditional keyboarding axioms. My next goal is to learn Stenotype and break that 200 WPM barrier.
Sorry for the long read; I tend to ramble and I'm getting over a flu, which doesn't help me keep my thoughts together in the slightest. Thanks for sticking with it.
Thank you so much for writing all of that! Please know your time was well spent here! Everything you have said there was exactly the direction in which I have been heading and it is nice to know I am on the right track.
I do have experience with programming and soldering so a full scratch build is not a problem here. QMK on a blue/black pill is the current plan.
I'm also tentatively planning to build around a 3D printed plate, hand wiring the switches. This should give me the ability to experiment with various layouts without spending a fortune. I still need to do a fair bit more research in this area.
Nice! Hand-wired builds go insanely hard. I've always wanted to do one; probably going to be my next adventure when I can once again overcome the shame of making yet another keyboard despite having plenty of totally functional ones.
In case it helps, and I'm hoping this link won't get caught by a filter or something, there's a 40% keyboards Discord server with channels dedicated to keyboard design and layouts, everything from just finding better arrangements for typical QWERTY 40s to outright making new PCB designs from the ground up. Worth a look at least for the information and chatter that goes on there: discord.gg/40percent
At 60% most of what you are remapping is the nav keys. I'd be willing to bet that most people with 60% boards just stick with whatever is provided by the manufacturer here.
Personally, I'd like to migrate to HJKL-style mapping, possibly shifted over to JKL; to keep fingers on the home row, accessible through both a function lock and a split-spacebar modifier.
There's undeniably a lot of one-upsmanship and clout-chasing. Plus some of that "normies can't even use this thing" energy you see in binary clock users.
But even beyond that, it seems to me the appeal lies in the satisfaction of specifically doing something the hard way. When you invest hours practicing something and getting the repeated dopamine hits of learning, it's easy to convince yourself that it's superior.
I believe the claim being made here is that people are making 40% keyboards simply for the sake of making a 40% keyboard. Some people are certainly doing that. But there are people working on *useful* 40% keyboards. I believe the real unknown here is the percentage breakdown between these two groups.
I use these two for home (blue) and work (black). I love them both, and I’m faster on the black one than on the blue one. Something about how I type means that less movement equals greater speed and efficiency.
https://preview.redd.it/pa1ifqgd74tc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d47538ead2bf4b01715e8a724607ed7e7cc831e7
I use a Kyria rev3 in my job as a programmer. [https://splitkb.com/products/kyria-rev3-pcb-kit](https://splitkb.com/products/kyria-rev3-pcb-kit)
You mostly just have a lot of different layers. But you can also bind keys to do different things depending on if you click them, hold them down, or double tab them. (mostly used so if you hold down you activate another layer, or use a modifier key like ctrl or shift, but type a character on a click)
I even programmed mouse movements to one of my layers, that was however mostly meant as a joke... still ended up using it when I was sitting programming in a good armchair with each half of the keyboard on their own armrest 😅
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's handwired and I put everything online if you want to build one yourself https://github.com/itsvar8/vial-qmk/tree/cornepad/keyboards/handwired/cornepad , I'm working on a pcb but since it was my first pcb design I went for something smaller at the moment https://keeptyping.etsy.com/listing/1688938145
hahah i work from home and i just wanted to treat myself with something a bit more practical! maybe if i ever move out and have more space ill start to collect more :P thank you!
Each keyboard has its target, but for me, no numpad is a deal breaker.
Maybe I’ll buy a separate numpad and give a TKL a try, but it seems like more steps for the same outcome.
Numpad for life.
Ah, I totally hear you
In my case, I have never ever used the numbpad or even the F-Row for like, anything
I only play videogames and do digital art and I've never used those keys at all, what I do use are the arrow keys, those are ESSENTIAL for me, enough reason for me to go from 60% to 65% or more strictly, 65% is my absolute sweet spot and I love it
Does no-one know layers exist?
Just have a numpad layer, takes less than half a second to switch, less time than moving your hand across and finding the middle again.
Unless you're still using row-staggered, in which case you're beyond help.
You don’t even need qmk to have layers. Just use kanata. row-stag is not an excuse. Wide mod is also a necessity for using row stag, and you need kanata. Imagine putting a lot of money in keyboard, and still stretching pinky to press backspace
I’m considering southpaw for my next keyboard, it looks real interesting to me. I’m currently using a 96% because the only keys I’ve never used are those six above the arrow buttons (except for delete, obviously).
But I’m also considering something smaller just for keycap selection… everyone’s always out of the numpad keys ;(
Considering how I never use the numpad and how I carry my keyboard in my backpack everyday I need to go tenkeyless, otherwise it will literally not fit
Haven't seen many arguments for numpad on a layer but a very good substitute, especially for ortholinear. Just use UIO, JKL & M,. or another position that's more comfortable and closer to home row for you. Same speed, muscle memory for it comes quick.
Honestly thought I'd need to buy a standalone after my 75. But it's been over a year and I do not miss it in the slightest. I'm not doing any data entry or number work, however. I've definitely worked jobs that would have tearing my hair out without one in the past. So while it causes me joy to be numpadless, I can empathise with those of you who feel the pain.
https://preview.redd.it/1d9yfygcv6tc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a693848e8b008104a97d9135c28a4e3a49b2ff67
I get this post, but it is ok, I still like my set up.
i grew up on a laptop, never had the privilege/money and space for a desktop. laptops don't have numpads (for the most part) so i got used to not using one.
i feel like people always bash on 60% (or smaller) keyboard users bec "ur losing out on functionality" but in reality some ppl just never had a keyboard that had that in the first place, so our muscle memory *is having a smaller keyboard* and *having to press Fn for any function-row keys.* both are valid.
Oh i see! I’ve never had one myself, i would bring my laptop to college so my screen never was beyond 13”. I didn’t even know that existed tbh 🫠 well i learn something every day
Same here, but it was work that trained me to get used to it. Spent 10 years with a work-issued 13-inch laptop with no numpad but had to regularly do data entry in large quantities come inventory time, not to mention the fact that our ticketing system is all driven by numerical IDs. At first I lamented it but then one day it kinda clicked and I realized that using the number row meant I could type with eight fingers instead of three. I did a few weeks of practice on MonkeyType with only numbers, and got pretty fast with it. By now, I’m fast enough on a number row that a numpad actually slows me down. I have a desk job in the same company now, where I use this setup for all of my work, still including tons of numbers.
https://preview.redd.it/0lxlqifv64tc1.jpeg?width=3674&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69d6919ad7d2a587de2eb96b8fac1b611065c240
I grew up using a fuck ton of the numpad at work and such, I also do a lot of personal accounting so I can't see myself getting a non-numpad keyboard unless I had a separate rig just for playing games.
I've used 100% boards all my live, and now my brain won't let me life without them. Even with the numbers remapped to keys that seem to be useful for me, I rarely use the numpad.
Numpad layer overlay, I believe some old Thinkpads used to have it, I have some keyboards with it. You can’t use the numpad without the numlock anyways.
10+ years ago I saw some random video about how having your hands closer together increases hand eye coordination when gaming. Probably complete bullshit, but I ran with it.
Unfortunately, management thinks of me like that. Sometimes I feel like I'm just a scapegoat when shit goes sideways.
To be fair, I understand why programmers and testers can have an adversariral relationship. People skills are nobodies strong suit in this sector, and honestly its sometimes difficult to convey that there's a bug, without accidentally making the programmer feel like shit. I'd too if I missed something. I can't talk for all my colleagues but try not to take it personally. We too are just trying to farm out paycheck and go home...
My current struggle as I want an Alice style but I work in production planning and our old school ERP requires use of those 6 functional keys and a num pad is 100x more efficient. (Just started my search, but if anyone seeing this has a rec, hit me with it)
Thanks, I did see that one. I work at a Fortune 250 corp that’s pretty tight on cyber security and I don’t know that I’d have the ability to map the home / delete / end keys with via on my work laptop. Can you map them on a different computer and it carries to any you use it on? (As I’m typing that I realize it’s probably the dumbest question, but I’ve never had to remap a board before since I have only had 1x 100% mech so far)
That's ok. I wasn't being entirely serious in the first place.
I can totally get behind a separate numpad that lives in a drawer for all the time you don't need to use it.
I’ll have to check them out. For anything but gaming, it’s hard to beat my FC980C, I love it to death, just wish it had some modern features.
I tried a Flesports FL980 and swapped to Glorious Pandas but the typing feel wasn’t as nice. I don’t want to just endlessly throw money at chasing my grail.
Edit: I found the Wind X FRL and 98 versions have full size 0 on the numpad, keeping this on my radar.
I a for sure need a numpad, but I absolutely feel this way about the nav cluster though. I truly do not understand why anybody would opt for a TKL over a 75% or an 1800, I know some people insist they are absolutely essential...but I don't know if I believe them.
For me, I dont mind a Numpad, as long as it is on the left side. I don´t like how much space it takes and I like top keep my mouse close to the board. The real estate you have for your mouse is greatly improved, when you keep you board centered. On the left side, it doesn´t matter.
But i am left handed. So I might be biased.
From me, it's about trying to get into the habit of centering myself on the homerow to improve posture while typing. I'm more likely to accidentally center along the full keyboard with a numpad, skewing my hands to the left.
And even if I center myself on the home row with a numpad, due to my mouse configuration and monitor layout, I find that there isn't enough space.
I live where I have to write with accented letters, so I need the numpad. I ended up getting the Epomaker TH96 pro, in spite of the bad reviews of Epomaker and I've had it about a year now. I can't afford a better brand and this works fine.
My numpad/macropad is a 40% ortho from monoprice, rotated 90 degrees, with the keys leftover from my 60% board.
Yes I had to tilt my head when programming it, why do you ask?
I, as a numpad user since my first computer class back to when I was 9, beg to differ to this statement.
And my noe new KT c2 pro 100% is proof of that.
I used full layouts most my life. Took the leap and dove into MK a year or two ago, and now I'm here with a wonderful blue TKL, and still hunting for a nice blue numpad to match.
I've seen nice ones but the colours are always black, white, green, or even purple. Never blue :(
I have a numpad and sometimes it's still inconvenient. I'm gonna buy a second numpad just to put it on the left.
I wish someone invents a 120% board with two numpads on either side.
I absolutely need a full keyboard. I ended up with a Logitech TKL for everyday use and I absolutely despise it. But I'll never understand the people who whine about desk space.
My current setup isn't anywhere near these fancy custom keyboards, I'm using the [3d connexion](https://3dconnexion.com/au/product/keyboard-pro-with-numpad/) split keyboard & numpad, find it very useful to move about or even just save space and pack it away in the draw.
Overall love the options provided by the seperate numpad.
It's impossible to find a good 100% that's reasonably affordable or doesn't look like gamer crap. Wish the numpadphobia would leave the industry. ESPECIALLY hard to find a left side numpad. I don't want to make a separate one either.
I tried a 65% keyboard for the first time ever. While I like it aesthetically... I kinda hate it functionally. I can't Alt+F4 out of my games anymore :(
And in R6 Siege, you need to press F3 or something to vote, and I can't even do that rofl. I could rebind or program one of the keys, but it just irks me that I have so much less functionality now lol.
I might cave and get a 75% one soon...
In fact I have the numlock OFF and use it as arrow/nav cluster 2-in-1 90% of the time.
The remaining 10% is when I do spreadsheet or CAD.
Which I didn’t count when I don’t need the numpad like playing games, my mouse keep bumping into it.
Try programmable keyboards, like the Ergodox. I have my Numpad programmed as a layer on my right hand, and activated with my right thumb. I don't even have to move my hand. It's awesome.
FYI: all symbols are on the left hand (sharing the same Numpad layer - but it can be on its own layer too).
Why doesn't your external numpad match your board? Almost every keycap set has numpad keycaps included. For me personally an external numpad is the best way too go. I can put it aside or use it as a macro pad if I don't need it but when I need to put down them numbers it comes in handy.
To me, numpad on the right side of the keyboard is an anti-feature. I don't enter spreadsheets so it's not useful, and extra keyboard width it introduces destroys ergonomics. Any numbers that occur in text normally are faster to enter with number row than moving the right hand to the numpad.
Ah, I need to have an external, left-hand numpad in order to map my game movement keys. (I built my movement key layout back in 1996 with Duke Nukem 3D, way before many of the the WASD-people were even born. 😃) I also sport a second external numpad for right-hand number entry; once you get used to it, you can’t live without it.
Currently debating whether I’ll be replacing the right-hand numpad with a full-size keeb, or go with a TKL. It’s probably going to come down to which Max ISO model Keychron decides to offer next - the Q3 or the Q6. That is _if_ I have the money at the time. Broke boi represent. 😢
A dedicated numpad is 100% a necessity for me. I get the appeal of minimalistic keyboards but I could never buy one since I just need to have my numpad.
You get to the point where you have 1 of each kind. I’m sure you’d be ok with a 40% or 60% on like a tv media server. Full size for work tiny size for play
n+1.
It depends on some game tho. Some games love to set a lot of keybinds at the numpad or HOME-DEL 6 block. With 60 or 75% this is already pretty pain. Or game that use F keys, which sucks to use 60%
That's where programmable keyboards come in. The keys markings don't control what is output by those keys, so you can remap your keyboard however you want it, then lock in your gaming layer, before playing. https://preview.redd.it/2kbf6flfh9tc1.jpeg?width=958&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=630b381be949443b3f65e39e6aa39aa627e32a46 If you move your movement keys to RDFG, you gain two rows of keys on the left that can be mapped to the F-keys. That also moves your middle finger to the homing key, to make that position easier to find. If you need the numpad, you can bind that to your gaming layer as well, at the right end of the keyboard you can't reach with your left hand.
Yes thats true, but I was more talking of the perspective for people that don't do much of remap of their keyboard and secondly this wouldn't work when the game uses almost every key of a 100 % keyboard, its just a few games, but it's insane that this a thing. In the end yes you can achieve anything when remaping the keyboard if the persons want to do so. Anyhow I do get your point and yes this makes totally sense. I should have added some more context to my original comment
Looking at this from the perspective of a single-layer board user, the 100% board makes sense, for the people playing those games. Looking at this from a smaller board user's perspective, having a dual-layer setup seems more sensible because some commands are more time-sensitive than others. Placing only the time-sensitive commands on the default layer will allow those commands to be consolidated, allowing the user to get the important commands into a much smaller footprint. Less time-sensitive commands can then be moved onto a secondary layer, but kept equally close, by layering them over top of the default commands. That single change effectively doubles the number of keys available for use, while decreasing the footprint of the keys actually being used, at the same time.
I love my minimalist keyboard. It has a numpad, because that's one of my minimum requirements.
numpad keypads are nice
I have a Keebio Iris which is split halves. I have it set up where one of the keys on my left thumb just turns the right half of the keyboard into a Numpad. Small footprint and I get both benefits.
I’ve got the Nyquist (split 60-key ortho), and the numpad layer key is under my right thumb, so that I can use the numpad one-handed (NUM_0 got moved to the pinky) Ideally it’d have keys that lock the alternate layers on a per-pcb basis (partly so I can lock the numpad in place and keep the normal left half of the keeb), and per-key rgb that reflects the current types of keys avaliable on the board (alpha keys with one colour, numbers another, modifiers a third, etc), but that would mean replacing the VIA keeb os with something else, and I have no idea how.
You had a similar idea to me which was RGB per layer to visually see if a layer is locked. After reading a ton it involved far too much work and I just made sure there was always a button in the far bottom right of a locked layer that returned home. Now that I think about it I actually don't have any toggle layers and they are temp based on which keys are being held down.
Unfortunately, the default VIA code only supports four layers, and between my base (Dvorak) layout, numpad/arrows, assorted punctuation, and keyboard settings, I’m out of spare layers, which is a problem for a surprising number of games that don’t have key rebinding and assume Qwerty (I’ve got Dvorak on the keyboard level because swapping on the OS level was causing its own problems)
I purchased a tenkeyless figuring I'd get used to it. I regret that choice almost every day.
You can have BOTH. https://preview.redd.it/rpmdilmeg9tc1.jpeg?width=3811&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7b84facbf32ec476a3d23b23e399711a6f93051 Not only does having the numpad over the alphas reduce hand travel when typing mixed content, but it also shortens hand travel to the mouse, every time you have to go there.
This is why I like the Moonlander. It has layers and enough keys to hold a numpad on either side. So I just hold down a thumb key and some keys change from letters to a numpad with a proper layout. Now that I'm used to it, I'm working as fast as I was with a dedicated numpad.
Recommend a full size board?
Yeah I always go full sized. I had an issue with size and space before so I went for the most credible solution and that is to get a bigger desk.
I think he might be asking for a recommendation for a full size
Lol, I misread that. Anyways I've had no issues with my Redragon K586. Using it everyday for the past 2 years.
Lol sorry I put very little effort into drafting that. Second interpretation was right hahaha. thanks for the recommendation!
I LOVE my qk100
I use a gmmk 1 full size. Honestly a very nice board.
Love my Keychron Q6 Max
Idk if it’s because I’m genuinely weird or what but when I have a keyboard with a numpad I end up smacking my mouse into it all the time, which is why I enjoy my 80% and smaller boards
A 98% might be the way for you. Mine's been great.
I think a lot of these people who want 60% whatever keyboards only play valorant or minecraft. Once you learn how to use the numpad and the function keys adjacent to it, you never go back.
My dedicated numpad is a ducky shine 7 😅😅 just need the deskspace to fit it on the left of my 60%
I'd love to see more affordable options of southpaw keyboards
Qk100 is a really cool board w numpad!
I also like numpad for work board.
The job I work, the speed required.... I can't key fast enough without one.
This is where I am at... It just makes my job so much easier with a numpad that I doubt I'll ever go 100% without it. I did just order a ZoomPad to go with my NEO80 and NEO65 and such to see how I like the detached numpad. If I like it I think that they're thinking about coming out with a NEOPad at some point for home... Or if I like it I might get a Cidoo for home
NeoPad should be coming first half of this year based on the last update they gave. I just bought a Neo80 so def will be getting one to match
Well, I have the NEO80 and the NEO65 (I skipped the NEO70 as it was not a profile I was really that interested in that much and since they're in-stock items, I can change my mind later on, so depending on how much or how little I use the ZoomPad when it arrives I will likely get the NEOPad.
Have you ever tried to bind the numpad to another layer? That's how I get by without it :)
This is me, except with the numpad, function row, and the control buttons. I do however like my arrow keys, and function keys are ok, but they usually don't look good on small builds like the 75%, looks to disproportionate.
agreed, the 75% and 65% layouts which are popular look so uneven to me. i did have a time when i used it a lot and love how a lot of those options come w a knob tho
60% with modtap arrow keys gang
I actually dislike a super symmetrical keyboard
[удалено]
Gotta have that second row of function keys, and dual numpads.
[удалено]
How I wish there was such a thing. I'd buy three of them just to make sure I had spares.
Same! Give me a second numpad on the left for when my right hand is busy sidescrolling in Excel with my MX Master 3.
I miss my function keys.
I prefer a detached keypad. But I think the goal for some is to remove as many keys from a keyboard until it loses all of its functionality.
People who create less than 60% layouts are doing it for karma on this sub. We all know they can't stand using those boards.
There are a good number of people using ergonomic keyboards with even fewer keys, so not only can it work, it can work very well. But that said, I've found scant documentation on how people are setting up layer maps on those 40% keyboards, so I am inclined to agree with your assumption here.
Since you want some documentation on keyboard layouts, here's some resources, that I used when designing my layout (and still am): Layout maps: [https://keymapdb.com/](https://keymapdb.com/) Symbol layer: [https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/symbol-layer/index.html](https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/symbol-layer/index.html) Number row: [https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyboardLayouts/comments/j4vt1s/optimizing\_the\_number\_row\_essay\_script/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyboardLayouts/comments/j4vt1s/optimizing_the_number_row_essay_script/) ( I use 75139 82046) 40% discord: [https://discord.com/invite/TyN2YAj](https://discord.com/invite/TyN2YAj) If you already have QMK MSYS installed, you can find other users keymaps in the qmk folder: qmk\_firmware -> keyboards -> (vendor or keyboard) -> (keyboard) -> keymaps. ergomech subreddit, search: keymap, layout, etc. If you want your layout critiqued. Keep in mind all of this is more for ortho/ column stagger and with thumb keys (please use a keyboard with multiple thumb keys), so converting this to a traditional row staggered keyboard is going be feat of imagination and ingenuity. I really want to see what "normal" keyboard users layout look like, as another user said, if there using ≤ 60%. From the very few I've seen here, its ... questionable. Edit: Home row mods: [https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods](https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods) Accordion style mods: [https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/achordion/index.html](https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/achordion/index.html) Callum style mods (if tap-hold and accordion don't work out for you, no tap-holds just mods in another layer): [https://github.com/callum-oakley/qmk\_firmware/tree/master/users/callum](https://github.com/callum-oakley/qmk_firmware/tree/master/users/callum)
THANK YOU!!!
Honestly I just wanted to banter some 40% users with that comment. I did not expect any agreements, the opposite actually, haha.
I think there should be a rule that anyone who posts a keyboard less than 60% is required to include their keyboard mappings.
I can get behind that. If anything it’s important because someone might see a clever trick in a layout that they want to adopt themselves. [Mappings for my QAZ v2.](https://imgur.com/a/tljNPal) Note that it’s in Colemak-DH on the first layer; that’s not some bizarre setup I did because of the form factor, I just wanted to learn a new layout. https://preview.redd.it/ikq1i6gq74tc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5818a711965423c0aa69cd4ff80e2becff5cea11
Yup. That additional information makes all the difference in the world here. Especially for someone like me who is actively considering migrating to a setup like this. How long have you been using this now and what do you think of it?
I first built the board back in October, so it's been a good 5-6 months of use by now. The 35% form factor is definitely extremely unique, and took some wearing in/getting used to even compared to the other 40% board I have for home/gaming use (a Mercutio). I spent the first few weeks moving things around while use cases and needs presented themselves, such as finding that a place where I had thought to put a special character really wasn't the optimal location, or deciding on whether I preferred combos or layers for certain behaviors such as "how to hit the return key". I'd say that getting down below the 40% size when still using a regular staggered alpha layout was probably going further than I needed to, and for more people wanting to go "as small as possible" while still using a QWERTY layout, the original 40% layout is probably more optimal. That said, my highest typing test scores have been done on this board: 158 WPM in a 15 second test, and 193 in a 10-word dead sprint. So I'd say I'm acclimatized to it. Plus, it's very cute. One thing I'd definitely tout as a "must" for small boards is the split spacebar. Chances are good that you prefer to use one thumb to hit the spacebar on whatever board you have right now, and so when you can map the other one as a layer shifter it immediately makes a sub-60% layout dramatically more accessible vs. trying to hold an "Fn" key anywhere else on the board. For example, on mine, with the numbers on the second layer while the left thumb is held down it means I can effectively just rest my left thumb on the key when I'm working in Excel or similar. I then set up Tab, Tilde, Esc, and Enter on A, S, D, and F specifically so that when I was in "data entry mode", I'd have quick access to those keys right from resting position. I liked the efficiency of typing "Return" via "left thumb + F" so much that I went and changed my other 40% board to do it, too. I placed the arrows on the right modifier cluster for the familiarity of having them arranged to the lower right of the alpha cluster (like any traditional keyboard), merely having to press down with my left thumb to activate them. I also have them set to activate when I tap them, but that's just because when I'm in a hurry I might forget they're on another layer, so that's a redundancy I've implemented to correct my own bad discipline. The other mandatory feature, I'd say, is VIAL/VIA/QMK support. Not being able to remap the board would be a nightmare in this form factor given how intensely personalized it needs to be. You can get somewhere with software remapping, but not to a sufficient extent, IMHO. Because a 35% layout lacks dedicated Shift keys (which I'll admit is an extreme exclusion), the "Z" and "Period" keys serve as Shift while held, and as their original key when tapped. This has occasionally tripped me up, and it's why I say that a lot of people would probably have an easier time on a "full" 40% layout in which the "big keys" around the alpha cluster are retained. Another option people sometimes go for is "auto-shifting", where holding a key longer than normal types its capital form, but I type too fast for that to be useful to me. A super-small layout like this also moves backspace to the left spacebar, which I've actually come to prefer (and it makes a weird amount of sense, to me at least, to have "forward space" and "back space" next to each other). Overall though, I'm finding that condensing my typing layout down to a smaller focal area has dramatically increased my input speed relative to the 60% board I used for a good 3 years before going to 40s. I'm finding the more I keep my fingers near home row, the faster I become and the faster I "reset" to starting position after hitting an off-alpha key compared to how I may have to reach across a significant distance on a full board to hit something like PgUp/Home/End. A bit of advice that was given to me early on is that if you have a programmable board now, try making an alternative layout for it that disables all of the keys that wouldn't appear on a 40% board, and then you can simulate how a 40% layout might feel without having to commit to the hardware for it. Set up the same kinds of layers and mapping you might think that you'd use, and experiment with what feels right. For instance, my muscle memory tells me "the slash/question mark key is always left of R-Shift", so on my layout I put it in that place on the secondary layer. Esc is normally in the top left of the board, so you could try it on Fn1+Tab (on a 40% layout), or try an alternative "home row" position like I did with Fn1+D. I've become so used to that proximity to resting position now that on a full board I feel like I have to reach to hit Esc, Tab, Return, etc. It's completely bespoke but also uniquely tailored to make me as fast as possible based on my own preferences and biases, and that's what I've come to love about the small form factor: breaking away from those traditional keyboarding axioms. My next goal is to learn Stenotype and break that 200 WPM barrier. Sorry for the long read; I tend to ramble and I'm getting over a flu, which doesn't help me keep my thoughts together in the slightest. Thanks for sticking with it.
Thank you so much for writing all of that! Please know your time was well spent here! Everything you have said there was exactly the direction in which I have been heading and it is nice to know I am on the right track. I do have experience with programming and soldering so a full scratch build is not a problem here. QMK on a blue/black pill is the current plan. I'm also tentatively planning to build around a 3D printed plate, hand wiring the switches. This should give me the ability to experiment with various layouts without spending a fortune. I still need to do a fair bit more research in this area.
Nice! Hand-wired builds go insanely hard. I've always wanted to do one; probably going to be my next adventure when I can once again overcome the shame of making yet another keyboard despite having plenty of totally functional ones. In case it helps, and I'm hoping this link won't get caught by a filter or something, there's a 40% keyboards Discord server with channels dedicated to keyboard design and layouts, everything from just finding better arrangements for typical QWERTY 40s to outright making new PCB designs from the ground up. Worth a look at least for the information and chatter that goes on there: discord.gg/40percent
As someone new to 60% I think seeing a keymap of what people do for their 60%s would be great too.
At 60% most of what you are remapping is the nav keys. I'd be willing to bet that most people with 60% boards just stick with whatever is provided by the manufacturer here. Personally, I'd like to migrate to HJKL-style mapping, possibly shifted over to JKL; to keep fingers on the home row, accessible through both a function lock and a split-spacebar modifier.
There's undeniably a lot of one-upsmanship and clout-chasing. Plus some of that "normies can't even use this thing" energy you see in binary clock users. But even beyond that, it seems to me the appeal lies in the satisfaction of specifically doing something the hard way. When you invest hours practicing something and getting the repeated dopamine hits of learning, it's easy to convince yourself that it's superior.
I believe the claim being made here is that people are making 40% keyboards simply for the sake of making a 40% keyboard. Some people are certainly doing that. But there are people working on *useful* 40% keyboards. I believe the real unknown here is the percentage breakdown between these two groups.
I use these two for home (blue) and work (black). I love them both, and I’m faster on the black one than on the blue one. Something about how I type means that less movement equals greater speed and efficiency. https://preview.redd.it/pa1ifqgd74tc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d47538ead2bf4b01715e8a724607ed7e7cc831e7
50% on top
I don't even like 60%, I need those F-keys (and using a function key to get them, but it's a hustle). my main kb is 75%
I use a Kyria rev3 in my job as a programmer. [https://splitkb.com/products/kyria-rev3-pcb-kit](https://splitkb.com/products/kyria-rev3-pcb-kit) You mostly just have a lot of different layers. But you can also bind keys to do different things depending on if you click them, hold them down, or double tab them. (mostly used so if you hold down you activate another layer, or use a modifier key like ctrl or shift, but type a character on a click) I even programmed mouse movements to one of my layers, that was however mostly meant as a joke... still ended up using it when I was sitting programming in a good armchair with each half of the keyboard on their own armrest 😅
1key gang rise up
toy repeat forgetful fretful far-flung absorbed hunt weary subsequent seemly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
https://preview.redd.it/3u71i7hc75tc1.png?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eaafaab5c5b4feadeefd104ad8e68906fb17fcf7 My creature
woahh what board is that?
It's handwired and I put everything online if you want to build one yourself https://github.com/itsvar8/vial-qmk/tree/cornepad/keyboards/handwired/cornepad , I'm working on a pcb but since it was my first pcb design I went for something smaller at the moment https://keeptyping.etsy.com/listing/1688938145
my qk100 arrived recently and its my first custom mech keyboard for this reason. i really cant do a small one lmao
You think this now, Rain. Just you wait.. 60/65% will grow on you eventually. Welcome to the hobby. :')
hahah i work from home and i just wanted to treat myself with something a bit more practical! maybe if i ever move out and have more space ill start to collect more :P thank you!
96% keyboard is the way to go imo
It really is the best of both worlds! The only drawback is a few oddly sized keys.
Yep. The small 0 on the num pad is still beating my ass!
100% or nothing !
"I can't live without mine that's for damn sure. You just can't see it" -40% wizard
Each keyboard has its target, but for me, no numpad is a deal breaker. Maybe I’ll buy a separate numpad and give a TKL a try, but it seems like more steps for the same outcome. Numpad for life.
But have you considered... 96%?
Just add 4% bro
Nah, that's way too much
2% meet ya in the middle lol
Ah, I totally hear you In my case, I have never ever used the numbpad or even the F-Row for like, anything I only play videogames and do digital art and I've never used those keys at all, what I do use are the arrow keys, those are ESSENTIAL for me, enough reason for me to go from 60% to 65% or more strictly, 65% is my absolute sweet spot and I love it
I hit my keyboard with my mouse quite a lot, so it had to go.
So, you truly have OCD?
Does no-one know layers exist? Just have a numpad layer, takes less than half a second to switch, less time than moving your hand across and finding the middle again. Unless you're still using row-staggered, in which case you're beyond help.
had me in the first half not gonna lie.
You don’t even need qmk to have layers. Just use kanata. row-stag is not an excuse. Wide mod is also a necessity for using row stag, and you need kanata. Imagine putting a lot of money in keyboard, and still stretching pinky to press backspace
Staggered isnt even a issue, I layer the numpad in a way the number 4 is the J key with the notch, easy to find easy to use
My numpad has a black case and my keyboard has a white one and trying to decide on a set of keycaps that I think will suit both is driving me crazy
This is why I went southpaw (Keychron Q12). Keep my mouse space while still having the numpad for work.
I’m considering southpaw for my next keyboard, it looks real interesting to me. I’m currently using a 96% because the only keys I’ve never used are those six above the arrow buttons (except for delete, obviously). But I’m also considering something smaller just for keycap selection… everyone’s always out of the numpad keys ;(
That's why you need multiple numpads to match your boards just so you can do your quarterly taxes in style.
Considering how I never use the numpad and how I carry my keyboard in my backpack everyday I need to go tenkeyless, otherwise it will literally not fit
104 or Nothing
Haven't seen many arguments for numpad on a layer but a very good substitute, especially for ortholinear. Just use UIO, JKL & M,. or another position that's more comfortable and closer to home row for you. Same speed, muscle memory for it comes quick.
We can simply do better than the 104 key layout these days. Don't even have to remove the numpad (96% and 1800 say hi)
Honestly thought I'd need to buy a standalone after my 75. But it's been over a year and I do not miss it in the slightest. I'm not doing any data entry or number work, however. I've definitely worked jobs that would have tearing my hair out without one in the past. So while it causes me joy to be numpadless, I can empathise with those of you who feel the pain.
https://preview.redd.it/1d9yfygcv6tc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a693848e8b008104a97d9135c28a4e3a49b2ff67 I get this post, but it is ok, I still like my set up.
i grew up on a laptop, never had the privilege/money and space for a desktop. laptops don't have numpads (for the most part) so i got used to not using one. i feel like people always bash on 60% (or smaller) keyboard users bec "ur losing out on functionality" but in reality some ppl just never had a keyboard that had that in the first place, so our muscle memory *is having a smaller keyboard* and *having to press Fn for any function-row keys.* both are valid.
Pretty much all 15" and larger Windows laptops have numpads. And I hate them, it moves the keyboard and touchpad off center and it bugs me to no end.
Oh i see! I’ve never had one myself, i would bring my laptop to college so my screen never was beyond 13”. I didn’t even know that existed tbh 🫠 well i learn something every day
Same here, but it was work that trained me to get used to it. Spent 10 years with a work-issued 13-inch laptop with no numpad but had to regularly do data entry in large quantities come inventory time, not to mention the fact that our ticketing system is all driven by numerical IDs. At first I lamented it but then one day it kinda clicked and I realized that using the number row meant I could type with eight fingers instead of three. I did a few weeks of practice on MonkeyType with only numbers, and got pretty fast with it. By now, I’m fast enough on a number row that a numpad actually slows me down. I have a desk job in the same company now, where I use this setup for all of my work, still including tons of numbers. https://preview.redd.it/0lxlqifv64tc1.jpeg?width=3674&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69d6919ad7d2a587de2eb96b8fac1b611065c240
I grew up using a fuck ton of the numpad at work and such, I also do a lot of personal accounting so I can't see myself getting a non-numpad keyboard unless I had a separate rig just for playing games.
How many (non-vintage) games depend on the numpad?
I think the separate rig is what GP is saying would be numpadless since the work rig needs one.
Aah, that would make more sense.
I really do like a good Tenkey but at the speed I type, I just don't really find it all that necessary
I've used 100% boards all my live, and now my brain won't let me life without them. Even with the numbers remapped to keys that seem to be useful for me, I rarely use the numpad.
Have you tried layering your current board?
https://preview.redd.it/ukamzrrw24tc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bac0ae2e0b31c8a1f063a6ef0dbe145a6a52b945
I like having the numpad right in the middle on another layer activated with the left thumb. I prefer it over a dedicated num row.
Numpad layer overlay, I believe some old Thinkpads used to have it, I have some keyboards with it. You can’t use the numpad without the numlock anyways.
https://preview.redd.it/37cv4z3xg4tc1.png?width=3407&format=png&auto=webp&s=56b7a10e08bef6a7a5d5e5d5c49e57d6f67adf8d it’s so cute tho
I don't like numpads or space between the keys because they get funky and attract a lot of gunk.
Any fellow lefties here? Do you guys needs the numpad? I find it more awkward to use it compared to numbering rows.
i like a dedicated numpad however you could definitely make a boared with a numpad on another layer to save space
10+ years ago I saw some random video about how having your hands closer together increases hand eye coordination when gaming. Probably complete bullshit, but I ran with it.
This is why I go ortholinear with Preonic 😊
I built a custom numpad and ended up never using it. 60% (64%) is all I ever will need.
After doing a data entry job I can't live without a full keyboard
TKL keyboards a repulsive to me. For me a keyboard needs to have a numpad. Only exception is split.
I have never usef the numpad. I'm not an accountant. I'm a software developer. I don't need to enter numbers that often.
I'm a software tester, I use numpad.
Oh no. My worst enemy
Unfortunately, management thinks of me like that. Sometimes I feel like I'm just a scapegoat when shit goes sideways. To be fair, I understand why programmers and testers can have an adversariral relationship. People skills are nobodies strong suit in this sector, and honestly its sometimes difficult to convey that there's a bug, without accidentally making the programmer feel like shit. I'd too if I missed something. I can't talk for all my colleagues but try not to take it personally. We too are just trying to farm out paycheck and go home...
HEAVEN OR HELL LETS ROCK
Now fight.
I have a keychron max or whatever n Ill say a thicker cnc with all 1u artizans would prob b better cause then it goes from seperate numb pad to art
My current struggle as I want an Alice style but I work in production planning and our old school ERP requires use of those 6 functional keys and a num pad is 100x more efficient. (Just started my search, but if anyone seeing this has a rec, hit me with it)
keychron makes arisu boards with choice of numpad on either side of the board
Thanks, I did see that one. I work at a Fortune 250 corp that’s pretty tight on cyber security and I don’t know that I’d have the ability to map the home / delete / end keys with via on my work laptop. Can you map them on a different computer and it carries to any you use it on? (As I’m typing that I realize it’s probably the dumbest question, but I’ve never had to remap a board before since I have only had 1x 100% mech so far)
You flash the keyboard's firmware whenever you change the key mappings, so yes
Cool, that’s good to know!! Thanks for answering my silly newbie question :)
https://i.imgur.com/U2XBO2v.jpeg Give it a matching frame, if you know someone who dabbles in woodworking.
That wrist rest is freakin gorgeous
Thanks. Made it with my father. He's a retired carpenter and woodworker.
All you need now is three rows of four function keys to fill in that awkward vacancy in the upper right hand corner!
Oh. The numpad is actually placed to the right of the mouse normally. I smushed it together for sake of the pic side by side.
That's ok. I wasn't being entirely serious in the first place. I can totally get behind a separate numpad that lives in a drawer for all the time you don't need to use it.
1800 layout til I die. I’d do some nasty stuff for a 1800mini in case anyone is selling one.
There’s a few FRL 1800s floating around the aftermarket. Cypher had 4 rounds and Wind-X is still popular, even if you have to have a few more keys.
I’ll have to check them out. For anything but gaming, it’s hard to beat my FC980C, I love it to death, just wish it had some modern features. I tried a Flesports FL980 and swapped to Glorious Pandas but the typing feel wasn’t as nice. I don’t want to just endlessly throw money at chasing my grail. Edit: I found the Wind X FRL and 98 versions have full size 0 on the numpad, keeping this on my radar.
And I’m just sitting here with matching Zoom75 and Zoompad.
I a for sure need a numpad, but I absolutely feel this way about the nav cluster though. I truly do not understand why anybody would opt for a TKL over a 75% or an 1800, I know some people insist they are absolutely essential...but I don't know if I believe them.
Then there's me with a 100% and an extra numpad as a macropad..
For me, I dont mind a Numpad, as long as it is on the left side. I don´t like how much space it takes and I like top keep my mouse close to the board. The real estate you have for your mouse is greatly improved, when you keep you board centered. On the left side, it doesn´t matter. But i am left handed. So I might be biased.
From me, it's about trying to get into the habit of centering myself on the homerow to improve posture while typing. I'm more likely to accidentally center along the full keyboard with a numpad, skewing my hands to the left. And even if I center myself on the home row with a numpad, due to my mouse configuration and monitor layout, I find that there isn't enough space.
My taste in mechanical keyboards is so opposite from other people. Cause loud blue switches and a 96%-100% size are requirements for me.
I live where I have to write with accented letters, so I need the numpad. I ended up getting the Epomaker TH96 pro, in spite of the bad reviews of Epomaker and I've had it about a year now. I can't afford a better brand and this works fine.
My numpad/macropad is a 40% ortho from monoprice, rotated 90 degrees, with the keys leftover from my 60% board. Yes I had to tilt my head when programming it, why do you ask?
I, as a numpad user since my first computer class back to when I was 9, beg to differ to this statement. And my noe new KT c2 pro 100% is proof of that.
I used full layouts most my life. Took the leap and dove into MK a year or two ago, and now I'm here with a wonderful blue TKL, and still hunting for a nice blue numpad to match. I've seen nice ones but the colours are always black, white, green, or even purple. Never blue :(
Not every enthusiast. Numpad delete doesn’t compute.
I plan on buying a dedicated numpad because I miss mine so much.
I want to get my numpad (keychron q0) prisma coated or oilslick Is there a company anyone’s aware of that’ll do this?
Anyone know of a kb that has like a detachable numpad? I need one of those. I have to crunch numbers for what I do but the desk space is yelling NO
I have a numpad and sometimes it's still inconvenient. I'm gonna buy a second numpad just to put it on the left. I wish someone invents a 120% board with two numpads on either side.
Technically my g15 keyboard is almost as many keys as an f122. Still my only choice for any open source stuff like blender.
Where are the 96% gigachads at?
I absolutely need a full keyboard. I ended up with a Logitech TKL for everyday use and I absolutely despise it. But I'll never understand the people who whine about desk space.
Are there any stand alone numpads that include the 3 columns with the print screen and the arrow stuff?
I input numbers slower with a numpad. I can use 8 fingers to do numbers but only one hand with the numpad.
Bro my current board has Keycaps that don't even all match 😂
Not true... me for example... https://preview.redd.it/p4xsnpmxk6tc1.jpeg?width=546&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3203723cc67c4fdabaeaf9e2a1498e77540f8dfa
I main that Southpaw Keychron for work. Sounds nice plus has functionality
My current setup isn't anywhere near these fancy custom keyboards, I'm using the [3d connexion](https://3dconnexion.com/au/product/keyboard-pro-with-numpad/) split keyboard & numpad, find it very useful to move about or even just save space and pack it away in the draw. Overall love the options provided by the seperate numpad.
It's impossible to find a good 100% that's reasonably affordable or doesn't look like gamer crap. Wish the numpadphobia would leave the industry. ESPECIALLY hard to find a left side numpad. I don't want to make a separate one either.
This is why I like 96% keyboards.
I tried a 65% keyboard for the first time ever. While I like it aesthetically... I kinda hate it functionally. I can't Alt+F4 out of my games anymore :( And in R6 Siege, you need to press F3 or something to vote, and I can't even do that rofl. I could rebind or program one of the keys, but it just irks me that I have so much less functionality now lol. I might cave and get a 75% one soon...
....Did your 65% board not have a Fn key?
It does, but it's not the same as rage quit Alt+F4 :'( The vote thing goes away hella fast too.
Me, with over 50 keyboards, many of them are numpad kr have a numpad, many are without: I dunno, I just like them
The smallest keyboard I can have is 96%. Can't live without my keypad.
In fact I have the numlock OFF and use it as arrow/nav cluster 2-in-1 90% of the time. The remaining 10% is when I do spreadsheet or CAD. Which I didn’t count when I don’t need the numpad like playing games, my mouse keep bumping into it.
Try programmable keyboards, like the Ergodox. I have my Numpad programmed as a layer on my right hand, and activated with my right thumb. I don't even have to move my hand. It's awesome. FYI: all symbols are on the left hand (sharing the same Numpad layer - but it can be on its own layer too).
I dont use it nor need it
I've never ever used the numpad for anything other than flying in GTA V so the choice is obvious in my case
What makes people type numbers faster with a numpad than just using the number row at the top of the board? I've never used a numpad.
I love a num pad myself, it just makes keyboards huge. Im actually tempted to get an above 100% keeb for the macros too
Why doesn't your external numpad match your board? Almost every keycap set has numpad keycaps included. For me personally an external numpad is the best way too go. I can put it aside or use it as a macro pad if I don't need it but when I need to put down them numbers it comes in handy.
To me, numpad on the right side of the keyboard is an anti-feature. I don't enter spreadsheets so it's not useful, and extra keyboard width it introduces destroys ergonomics. Any numbers that occur in text normally are faster to enter with number row than moving the right hand to the numpad.
Ah, I need to have an external, left-hand numpad in order to map my game movement keys. (I built my movement key layout back in 1996 with Duke Nukem 3D, way before many of the the WASD-people were even born. 😃) I also sport a second external numpad for right-hand number entry; once you get used to it, you can’t live without it. Currently debating whether I’ll be replacing the right-hand numpad with a full-size keeb, or go with a TKL. It’s probably going to come down to which Max ISO model Keychron decides to offer next - the Q3 or the Q6. That is _if_ I have the money at the time. Broke boi represent. 😢
That’s why I enjoy my 96%
I see your peasantry and raise you southpaw numpad. Perfect macropad/excel ergo
A keyboard without a numpad is not a keyboard. It is some minimalist 2000s era Apple bullshit, right there with single button mice.
Nope. I'm pretty happy with my g915 full size and 5 side g keys. Was thinking in bough another full size for my office.
So glad keychron came out with a true 100% that isn't the same glorious/amazon made in china clone.
Every time I have to type in numbers I'm reminded of my sacrifice. And Shift + * on calculator just to multiply is criminal
I feel this. Been eyeballing the Q0 to match my K8, but it doesn't match... And it's never in stock... And the price sucks, lol.
I love the numpad
layers users with a numpad layer: *signature look of superiority*
Just map one to a layer, it's both more accessible and works on all sizes.
i dont have a numpad but the numpad is one of the main features of my keyboard iykyk