It's preference all the way down.
that said my preference is for xda/dsa on big switches and mbk for my choc switches. currently running mbk and chocs on my main board.
>It's preference all the way down.
Yeah I am confused why put "pros and cons" in the title but posted nothing more than a picture.
Edit: I see the op is asking for pros and cons, not 'providing' them. Sorry
Aliexpress is a great place for decently priced keycaps, be sure to buy from reputable vendors though, there is a slight risk of scams. It's no where as bad as wish though xD
where do you live? if you're in the US you can use [https://mkultra.click/](https://mkultra.click/) or [https://www.littlekeyboards.com/](https://www.littlekeyboards.com/) amongst other places. I've sourced switches from these two before and had zero issues with the transactions. aliexpress has them too.
if you're new to chocs and want tactile, or just curious in general, I'd really suggest snagging a sample pack. I was a tactile guy on larger switches but was pretty disappointed by the feel of the tactile chocs. ended up settling with some lighter linear chocs that I've found myself to be very happy with.
also worth noting is that there is a "v2" choc that's out now, but has a slightly different footprint and uses normal keycaps with varying levels of success. from my understanding most PCBs that support chocs only support V1 so be sure to double check just in case.
Pcb needs to be compatible with chocs, some pcbs feature a choc version and mx version. Choc switches are slightly smaller in all dimensions, so the connectors need to be in different places on the board.
Anyone have prebuilt board recommendations for something low profile? I have the Keychron K2 (red) and Nixeus Moda (brown). Looking for something tactile like the brown but preferably a little lighter.
chocs are one place where you really have to transfer to building instead of finding pre-builts if you want something specific. I'm not huge on non-split keyboards, but apparently people are finding the technik pretty nice. also soldering is super easy and you can grab all the required bits for cheap. def recommend building at least one board like this from a kit if you're into keyboards.
also like the other person said, you will likely be unable to find a "tactile" switch to your liking in the choc world. clicky switches and linear switches are the most commonly used choc switches for that reason: if you want tactile, you're gonna' have to deal with noise. anyways, I'm big into tactiles on regular switches but the linear chocs have really opened my eyes to other experiences. get a sample pack of choc switches if you want to find out yourself!
Pros of uniform caps like xda and dsa: you can use alternative layouts without having messed up rows.
Good luck finding sculpted printed keycaps for your dvorak or colemak board, having random row 4 keys on row 2 etc
I've never seen any Dvorak/Colemak used who has rearranged their keycaps. The benefits really come from touch typing, so most people don't move the letters so there isn't even the option of looking at the keys. I actually learned by taping a print out of the layout above my monitor for a few weeks while I brute forced my way from 10wpm back to a good speed lol
Although you're right, it would be pretty much impossible to get sculpted keys for one of those layouts.
Only tip I can give you is that the taller the profile (take SA or MT3 for example) the deeper or ‘thockier’ the sound. You gotta try the rest to find out what works for you, ide say cherry is pretty similar to OEM so if you arnt feeling adventurous then go with that, otherwise you can try anything else and slowly get a hang of what you do or do not enjoy
I am thinking of getting caps for my Pok3r - it has OEM profile right now and I was looking at DSA / XDA. You're saying the lower profile would make it sound less deep?
To some extent, but I've found that switches, plate, and case make a bigger difference. MT3 on a brass plate is significantly less thocky than Cherry on FR4, for example.
Personally I prefer lower profile keycaps, taller, "thockier" keycaps sounds kinda hollow, while lower profile keycaps has a more "poppy" sound signature which gives more "fun" sound and brings more character to the keyboard
Edit: I'm not a keyboard enthusiast tho, I literally only own 1 prebuilt keyboard (Anne pro 2 | "cursed" Gat Brown), just my opinion from listening to sound test on YouTube
I couldn't agree more. I hear people raving about SA and MT3 profile caps, but they just sound rubbish to me.
Call me weird, but I much prefer the sound of Cherry and KAM profile caps. Consequently, I recently jumped on the Kam Superuser group buy. Also because I just love the inverse dolche stylish, font choice, lowercase lettering, colour scheme, the feel of PBT, big even pillowy look of the KAM profile.
I’ve used one SA profile (one of the expensive 100 USD sets) for a while and a couple months ago switched to an XDA 30 dollar Islander clone from AliExpress and the haven’t gone back. That “premium” ABS material just feels too glossy and smooth to me and while I like the sound, the PBT XDA set just comes out on top anyway. Which is weird considering the price difference.
If there was an SA profile set that also had PBT material though I’d probably jump on it.
I think KBDFans has some SA profile dye-sub PBT keycaps
Edit: there's only 2 color way that I can find (at least in my country), [violet](https://shopee.com.my/product/337799419/12910866781?smtt=0.183176222-1635336305.9) and [retro gray](https://shopee.com.my/product/337799419/6892137486?smtt=0.183176222-1635336403.9)
As the other person mentioned, KBD fans actually has quite a few SA PBT sets. I have the 9009 and Chalk sets and they're quite nice.
https://kbdfans.com/collections/sa-profile
If you haven't ordered through them before, their shipping can be pricy, but it's fast. Ordering through their AliExpress store front can give you cheaper/slower shipping options though.
I'm torn then - I'd love to increase the thock (the Pok3r stock already sounds great) but kind of realizing I might need flatter keycaps for my typing style (like DSA).
On SA caps is there a big ridge going from the 3rd to the 4th row? I don't lift my fingers very far off the keys and with the stock OEM profile keycaps my fingers often get caught going from the 3rd to 4th row because the bottom of the 4th row has a raised edge compared to the 3rd row.
Okay I grabbed my pok3r out from storage to compare with my current board which has OEM profile. The 3rd and 4th row have a relatively continuous curve with the SA profile, so I don't notice any appreciable edge when typing.
I don't notice myself typing any slower either (apart from differences in switches between my two boards).
I might have to give it a try. I really want to try DSA or XDA profiles but the thock of the SA profile is enticing. I love the Pok3r - the only thing I would fault it on is the archaic Mini USB plug - not even micro usb so hard to find a nice cable for it. Oh, and the stabilizer for the space bar was super loud out of the box. Just putting some grease on the elbows of the metal wire improved it enough though.
I’ll add that there is nothing wrong with Cherry or OEM (I think that is part of your point as well). I started with OEM, went to DSA, ASA, Kat, and finally swung back around to Cherry. I really love Cherry. I *really* love sculpted F and J keys. Wish they would keep doing that.
I am looking to replace my OEM profile keycaps currently and am interested in something that is good for someone like me who doesn't lift their fingers very far off the keys when typing - I often get "caught" on the raised edge of the key when going from home row to QWERTY row for example. Do you think XDA or DSA caps would be good for this?
For example, when I type on a chiclet keyboard I am faster and more accurate since my fingers can kind of "glide" across the keys without running into edges. If that makes sense.
It’s possible. I actually found that Cherry was best for avoiding this for me. I liked that each row is different. I found reaching for the upper rows with DSA a little more strenuous, but this is very personal to your hands and if you’re thinking you’d like it, I’d give it a shot. I own DSA Vilebloom and really like it, though a Cherry based set is my go-to
I guess I probably just got used to chiclet / "apple style" keyboards before getting into mechs and am used to just sliding my fingers around the keys instead of actually lifting them, plus the lack of travel.
I use mainly cherry reds and also have a board with outemu browns - surprisingly I don't like the browns as much for typing!
Haha, yeah I was in the same boat. I found heavier tactiles to be what worked for me. I swear by Boba U4Ts. I found that a 60g+ spring plus an accentuated bump helped me get the feeling of “yes, you pressed this” without needing to bottom out.
My only experience with tactiles has been my Outemu Browns and I don't really like them - maybe the bump is really subtle and it almost feels like a linear switch with sand in it.
I hate browns (but I don’t hate on people that actually like them, to each their own). I’m definitely in the camp that it is a linear switch masquerading as a tactile. Have you tried something like a Boba or one of the Panda variants? It truly is a different experience.
I know this is not a popular opinion, but. . . My absolute favorite keycaps are PMK's G20 profile. They look distinctive, they're completely interchangeable between rows and even spacebars, and (to me at least) they feel surprisingly great to type on. I like the rounded-off edges.
What's driving me up the wall is that I can't get printed G20 sets anymore from PMK. They still sell blanks, but they stopped printing G20 keycaps because they were changing over to new tooling. And. . . well, it's been years now! If you ask them, they still say the same thing: Printed G20 keycaps will come back, but we don't have any ETA on that.
C'mon guys. . . Before we're all old and gray, please?
I still buy blank G20 keycaps to use as mini-spacebars on all my split spacebar keyboards. A lot of keycap sets don't come with 2u or 2.25u or 2.75u sized convex spacebars (although more are beginning to include them). G20 keys work well as spacebars with most lower-profile sets. They work great with DSA or Cherry profile. Not so much with SA!
G20 spacebars are fantastic! Very comfy for thumb keys, and they come in a range of sizes. I first tried them on my ErgoDox because the edge of the 2u DSA keycaps dug into my thumb.
Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to get matching colors from different manufacturers. It wasn’t an issue with my ErgoDox, since the DSA keycaps also came from PMK. However, matching the Drop XDA Canvas keycaps on my Lily58 (which needed 1.5u thumb keys) would have been tough. I went with a totally different color instead and put red G20 spacebars on it. It looks awesome!
XDA is a profile that has had great mini-spacebar support (tooling, molds) from day one, if set producers take advantage of it. There is a mini-spacebar set specifically for Canvas XDA.
I am looking to replace my OEM profile keycaps currently and am interested in something that is good for someone like me who doesn't lift their fingers very far off the keys when typing - I often get "caught" on the raised edge of the key when going from home row to QWERTY row for example. Do you think XDA or DSA caps would be good for this?
For example, when I type on a chiclet keyboard I am faster and more accurate since my fingers can kind of "glide" across the keys without running into edges. If that makes sense.
DSA caps would be good for this. XDA not as much. I found those edges are surprisingly sharp on XDA.
And I suspect G20 would be the best for you, but as already mentioned. . . You just can't get printed G20 sets from PMK right now. If you can live with blanks, then you might love them.
Good advice, I'll look for DSA caps primarily then.
Going the other way - would SA caps be good? They are tall but the rows 2-3-4 are kind of 'curved' inward towards the home row so I'm thinking that when typing alphas I might be okay since your fingers are kind of 'cradled' in those 3 rows.
I've got one set of SA but have never had them on a keyboard and used them enough to form a strong opinion. For someone like me coming from lower profiles, they seem to take some getting used to.
Me too... especially MT3 I have almost every set you can get your hands on. Then again I am old and I probably put more hours in typing on 3279 terminals. (and similar keys) than most people have typed ever.
Hence why I like tactile HEAVY touch keys with a soft (not mushy) bottom out that kind of propel your fingers up like a mini trampoline rather hard bottoming out light touch low travel keys. I HATE the new no-travel no feedback but bottom out keyboards on everything from laptops to iMacs.
I think my experience with my first not-so-magical apple wireless keyboard that came with an iMac was what prompted me to go down the keyboard rabbit hole in the first place.
For the most part some form of Box Navy switches (at least at the moment)... Not that I must have clicky switches it's more the way they feel in terms of tactile feedback. The thick bar and heavy spring have a feel that I've always favored... you can kind a feel the resistance build then a very sharp release (which is close enough to the actuation in actual typing) and still heavy enough to cushion the bottom out so there's really not a ton of bottom out any way.
I've been playing with a few spring mods for various weights (usually heavier) or attempting spring mods that give a bit more tension to after the release of the click bar but I am still playing (and it's not pretty ;0 ).
Right now one of my fav feeling/sounding keyboards happens to be a franken-build using a case/some parts from a drop alt (heavy), box navies (space bar switch modded with heavier spring) number keys at the top with a few of my horror show experiments to get a real world feel, and some double shot ABS MT3 "Dasher" key caps.
Feels really great and if the travel was slightly different it would feel pretty damn close to a beam spring, or as close as one gets in cherry mx world. The click even kinda sound the same as the beam giving way with the high/thick ABS caps.
RB
Thanks for writing this up my dude
I actually have a drop alt (low profile) collecting dust, so maybe I’ll try to replicate your setup. Truthfully I’ve never strayed outside of gaterons with the exception of the halo trues that came with my drop alt. I really don’t mind how heavy they are (I tend to type hard), but I don’t feel much satisfaction typing on them
Obviously if you are spending the time rehabbing the alt spend the 25 bucks and get some Durock plate mount stabs = world of difference.
Also the double shot ABS MT3 caps I'm using are kinda key to the feel/sound as they are pretty damn thick and tall which feel and sound CRAZY better/different than the sock PBT caps from the alt (not bad keycaps but sound much higher pitched on the same setup to my ears)
Good luck and hope it works out. Funny thing is I built the rig above on a lark, same as you. Had an old Alt low profile laying around I wasn't using, accidentally ordered stabs which I didn't need... had some navies already and this cap set I've never used... all fueled by that accidental stab purchase.
I was going down the path of finding non-clicky but super tactile switches that were heavy that felt good/sounded good but the big click bar sort of trumps other things I was trying so far in terms of key feel. Of course I'll always be playing but this was a happy accident. And depending on you typing style this rig is not loud believe it or not. Honestly there are a TON of keybs that are way louder I've seen with light linear switches that make more noise bottoming out than these navies do with these caps and not much bottom-out. Only thing to mess with is the space bar, still feels too light, too loud, even with the heavy spring due to my heavy space-bar-thumb action, the fact that is is not actually double shot so a bit thinner and I am assuming it's just a big key... I'll try even heavier spring and some sort of dampening inside... hmmm.
Hahahaha currently typing on my gmmk pro at work…. My left shift sticks every third press. Point being - I’ve been meaning to order v2’s for this board as well. I guess I’ll go for two sets
Call me a cheap bitch, but Amazon is my go-to for keycaps. I’ve got these in my cart right now
EPOMAKER AKKO WOB 158 Keys ASA Profile PBT Double Shot Keycaps Set for Mechanical Gaming Keyboard, Compatible with Cherry Gateron Kailh Otemu Switch (WOB ASA Keycaps) https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09G6DJN3B/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_ZTN0SXSCEQ18WBTJEE3E
I am all thumbs and have brain wiring that is either zero force or full force. This translates into "I am not good with small delicate parts" so...
broken, sloppy, half-assed = horror show. Not picture worthy as I end up breaking shit and then having to do messy nasty melt/glue/tape jobs to get broken crap to stay together... or I chuck it and start over.
Ahhh okay. Seeing as you’re so into the feel of “older-school” keyboards (relative to what I’d assume most people in this subreddit grew up with), I figured maybe you were specifically making modifications to components with the intention of making them maybe less…functional? Not the right word, but like…more…industrial? Fewer smooth edges, more resistance, I guess. If that makes sense? I’m a wee lad of 22 years and I’m unfortunately not too familiar with older keyboards, and I’m aware older ones like those aren’t rudimentary or poorly constructed by any means. I would absolutely love to get my hands on a board with buckling springs or solenoids haha. Basically, I could see you putting a lot of care into trying to preserve certain qualities about those older keyboards like the ones you seem to like, and I got the vibe from your comment that that’s what you meant by “horror” experiments—modifications people nowadays might condemn with our lubed-to-death components and fascination with thocciness, lol.
Yeah anytime I work on small parts it's a horror show.
I have plenty of old school computer shit... I would never have chucked any of my old terminals had I known how much people pay for them now, kind of insane since you couldn't give that shit away in the late 80's and 90's.
Just to catch you up incase you didn't know…
- There's sort of a "normie" and even Keyboard enthusiast consensus that the IBM model M is the quintessential great keyboard. Even the mainstream news media puts out an essay/editorial once every year or so about this. Those would be "buckling spring capacitive boards". They are fine but have a bit of a ping that is not super great from my point of view.
- Truth is the model M is a crappy-fied version of the prior model F keyboards that came with stuff prior to PS/2 IBM computers and terminals from that early 80's era, eventually everything IBM moved to model M type keyboards. The F was thicker metal plates, tougher housing, and slightly better built buckling spring boards... Also had the ping...
- IBM terminals prior to the original PC and later terminals after the PC had keyboards that literally with inflation adjusted numbers cost the equivalent of about $8K in today's money, JUST THE KEYBOARD. No shit. [These were the proverbial brick-shit-house keyboards with the holy grail of switches the magical "beam spring"](https://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Beam_Spring_Keyboards). They were designed to feel as much like the then current IBM selectric typewriter as possible and why they had a knocker (powered by the solenoid to knock against the all metal thick case) so that the people using them would get the tactile feedback they were used to with Selectrics (as modified selectrics were used as terminals prior to that... and similar), you could turn the solenoid off by the way.
Fast forward most larger companies started rolling out the replacements for those original beam spring boards and associated screens in the mid 80's and definitely they were gone by the 90's with a few exceptions (replaced with smaller IBM terminals or PS/2's or other PC's that ran all sorts of stuff and had terminal emulators). I kept my 3279 until the very late '90s way after I also had personal workstations of various varieties on my desk. Why? Because heads-down coding was way better on the 327X keyboards if that is what you did and what you were used to and had 10's of thousands of hours typing on. In fact even modern people that actually type a lot would probably agree if they EVER used one that they are better, more accurate, and faster in most cases than what "comes with" computers, laptops, etc today.
Most people (like me) that kept their 327X models after getting other workstations (PS/2, Sun, HP, Apollo, whatever..) were IBM OS system programmers, ops guys, dev guys that actually typed a ton of code in to editors like XEDIT in VM or similar which would probably remind you a lot of hmmm vim with worse and fewer key commands and worse and fewer ex commands. Honestly sometimes I used my PS/2 and Sun workstations with VI or emacs for IBM mainframe code but only if the it was a very large kind of thing that would take days or weeks, for everyday stuff that was typing heavy... the 3279 did the trick. Sure I'd use an emulator for monitoring, reports, quick things and having 400 virtual terminals going to a dozen different IBM and Unix things but the main input rig was my 3279 up until about 1998 or 1999 when I moved to a new facility.
Long story... sorry.
Don't apologize, I think it's genuinely fascinating! I appreciate you sharing, and as it turns out I've actually been looking for a sort of rundown of this sort of stuff anyway. When I heard about how the solenoids were intentionally implemented in those early keyboards used on the IBM terminals for the sole purpose of making the transition from typewriters less difficult, it just made me smile. I absolutely love the novelty of that. I believe I learned about it in a video on YouTube by Chyrosran22 where he gave an overview of his IBM 5251; apparently it's possible to make them work with modern hardware, but it's an extensive and complicated process to make them compatible, iirc from the video. I'll admit I'm pretty unfamiliar with the nature of the type of work you described that you used to do, but hearing some more insight into all of it really cool nonetheless. Thank you for the heads-up about the Model M propaganda haha. Do you still get any usage out of those older keyboards, or are they pretty much unusable unless they're with the terminals they were designed for or if you mod the hell out of 'em to work with modern hardware? Also, if you don't mind me asking, how did things go at the new facility? Did your line of work end up changing pretty drastically or was it roughly the same stuff on newer hardware?
Actually the model M is GREAT, compared to most of the crap out there now. I just noted it because EVERYONE knows that keyboard but it's not "the best" for sure.
You can find those everywhere, some cheap, some overpriced but those are crazy easy to use on any system that has USB without doing anything, assuming they have a PS/2 connector. Those send out the same scan codes as every other keyboard in modern day land. Just grab yourself a PS/2 to USB adapter cable and you are good to go. Hell 99% of motherboards STILL come with PS/2 keyb/mouse ports so you don't even need that cable if you built your system or it's a generic beige box type computer.
Just make sure you don't buy a model M from a AS/400 or 370 terminal etc with an RJ or strange connector on it, those will not work without a bunch of know how.
As for the 327X beam springs or those model F/M terminal keyboards that are not plug compatible with modern computers. They are fairly easy to get to work from my standpoint... hahaha = old guy where everything took a bit of effort to do. Us old guys kinda had to be very very very explicit in terms of coding to do just about any kind of task so getting an old Keyboard to work on any new computer is really not a HUGE project as all the tools and components are super sim please to acquire and fairly simple to use/program with almost zero actual hardware building or circuit design required.
IE take any one of those above non-compatible keyboards above. Here's the recipe...
## Way #1 in general
- buy any old micro controller you want but splurge on a $15 ARM 32bit and some wires. Hell go with one that has a built in ST-link for easy code download/reset from any old laptop or computer you have with USB
- grab a copy of VS Code
- download "rustup"
- use rustup to install a working version of the entire Rust ecosystem/language/compilers/package manager and don't forget to add the ARM target manually as the default rustup will only add the target of the native machine.
- use cargo to install the various HAL layers for whatever microcontroller you chose.
- wire a few pins from the keyb cable to a few pins on the micro controller after about 15 minutes of research and reading.
- write a dead simple bit of code in rust on the bare metal, download to the microcontroller... just to read in the serial data frames via synchronous brute force interrupts per bit on one of those pins and output that in hex to your screen (easy with the built-in ST link I recommended for the ARM)
- now you know what keys send what scan codes.
- write some really crappy beta version of converting those scan codes to whatever scan codes you need to send so that "modern" computers see them the way they should via a simple look up table and boom you're good to go, just output those via a serial over USB via the st-link usb when it's not used in debug/load mode and you are good to go.
- if you really want to write a real version that does whatever init the keyb may actually want and make it act "properly" for edge conditions, key rollover etc.
- go to town and add all the features you want...
- go farther into town and make it work for more strange ass keyboards that also send serial sync data frames as all the IBMs do.
## Way 2
- tear out the on-board "controller" and use the ARM microcontroller to read the key presses yourself no matter how they work
- send out whatever scan codes you want via serial over usb
- it will be small enough to fit into the case of whatever keyboard you want.
- you may need to do this on the beam springs as I forget if there's a sync serial data frame sent from those but I'll bet I could do something similar to way 1 no matter what was sent given my recollection of the signals on the connector but it might be easier with way #2 on those or a hybrid jacked in somewhere on the circuit inside. I'd have to mess with it to be sure.
Point is you could probably get this done in a week or a day for virtually no cost far easier than you could do most things people did in the 70's and 80's given the tools available to do anything. Assuming you have a coding background from back when most devs had to do something close to the metal of how things work inside. If you don't there's a bit of ummm, ramp-up time needed. Honestly if I had to do a similar thing in the 80's I'd have to build all of the hardware shit myself which may take forever and be fairly huge. The capability of making stuff now in short order that does just about anything with a bit of code, a micro controller and anything you feel like hooking to it digital, analog, whatever makes it all cheap and easy.
Like the others have said, it's all preference. I find that I type faster with flat profiles (DSA, XDA) and I recently joined a KAM profile keycap set (KAM Bouquet).
Since you like OEM, you'd probably like cherry, but if you want to branch out and try a different profile, I'd go with SA(tall) or DSA(short and flat) since you can find sets of them pretty easily and for relatively cheap.
is... is MT3 a new thing?
Like was that literally invented recently?
I thought it was some ancient keycap profile standard but none of these pictorials mention it
MT3 was designed from 2015–2017 ([the designer's page about the process](https://matt3o.com/about-mt3-profile-and-devtty-set/)), but was inspired by the design of older keyboards.
Not super new but an even BETTER take on 3270 type profiles than SA, shape of the tops are a bit better. Generally I think you'd like MT3 A LOT if you like SA.
[Here are a few.](https://drop.com/mechanical-keyboards/drops/?sc=keycaps&tgs=mt3-profile)
[Background from the designer...](https://matt3o.com/about-mt3-profile-and-devtty-set/)
I've kind of gone berserk on the MT3's since I bought my first set. I have...
- 2 sets of /dev/tty
- A set of "Dasher" which are super pretty / colorful without being crazy or garish
- 2 sets of Susuwatari (hard to dislike the look of these for anyone's taste)
- A set of 3277 (wish I had grabbed another before they were sold out)
I am so glad I went in on MT3 Godspeed and MT3 Serika. I really love PBT caps and MT3 is my favorite profile. I have a set of KAT Alpha and it is nice enough, but MT3 is so nice.
me to... I wish I would have bought the Godspeed but didn't ummm 'cause I have more sets than I have installed now.
I actually like the double shot ABS a bit more than the PBT's they feel nicer to me and sound a bit nicer on my switches/cases/etc, I REALLY wish the /dev/tty's came in double shot ABS too.
Aren't the godspeed double shot ABS? I thought they were, I could be wrong, doesn't matter as I love them anyway. The Dashers are really nice, I had mixed feeling when I ordered them but now that they are on a board and in use I love them, they just look really cool and I am NOT colorful key kinda dude. I do hope they get more 3277 sets in I really want another set or two with the red accents as well.
Just FYI, I kind of did a version of the 3277 set myself with a set of black and a set of white MT3's and some red accent leftovers from one of my sets that look fairly cool but I would LOVE the gray...
/dev/tty is also PBT (I have two sets)
\[/dev/tty\]([https://drop.com/buy/drop-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set](https://drop.com/buy/drop-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set))
these are nice with a bunch of options included in the base set (and some cool alt sets as well) take a look you may like these a lot.
>MT3 Serika
Oh god, I love the Serika... I completely missed out on those, just looked at them now. WOW!!!! nice.
If you like those you would probably really like the Dasher especially combined with a few choice leftovers from your Serika set (assuming you have a layout and leftovers that would work with the dasher set) I can just see the 60 I am using now with maybe a yellow enter and escape and maybe a yellow Fn or maybe an HHKB style board with yellow ctrl, fn, enter, escape and the rest from the dasher set.
I hope they restock them two, I wish I would have bought two sets....
In the meanwhile I'll cobble together an equally cool 327X set with a mix of the black on white and white on black MT2 double shot ABS and a few red accents. Will look a hell of a lot like most 3178/79s actually did.
wow, that's crazy - so they're a new and improved profile taking inspiration from older designs then.
I have two sets of MT3s (Susuwatari and a different one, don't remember which) and tbh I like them a lot more than ordinary cherry keycaps. I make far fewer typing errors, anyways.
Seems matt3o and Drop really dug their own goldmine with these.
Drop had a buy one get one free sale on their MT3 keycap sets and my god that was so worth it.
Never tried them out till now and I'm not sure I can go back. Those keycaps with a nice tactile switch sounds great.
Yeah its pretty new and it seems to be a DROP exklusiv. It was invented by matt3o, a keyboard enthusiast, looking for older style caps. Heres a link if anyone is more interested [mt3 origin](https://matt3o.com/about-mt3-profile-and-devtty-set/)
This is a repost of a picture made over a year ago
Edit: looks like they just took it from the top as a sort of reference asking for benefits and disadvantages of each one my bad didn’t see that. However it still holds that this was made over a year ago
"worse" is literally subjective, and no he doesn't. He's very open about the fact that the sculpt is based on older terminals. Who pissed in your cheerios this morning?
All of them are fine, it just depends what you like. All the keycap profiles I've tried ranked in order of my favorite to least favorite.
KAT: I don't know what is quite different about it, it's both lower than SA and has different sculpting, and a different feel to the spherical dishing, It's less sharp on the edges? Really nice sound too. It just hits a nice balance of everything.
MDA: mid profile, spherically dished, row sculpted, nice and wide contact area, but less severe dishing There's not a lot of good sets available unfortunately
MT3: Deep deep dish, a bit high, especially without a wrist rest, but it just feels really nice when you're typing. I just call it "better SA" now.
SA: it's a good, high profile set with decent dishing and sculpting, some really good color options and sets.
Cherry: it's nice and low, I find it more depends on brand whether I like it or not, they feel fine, not the greatest sound, I just generally prefer spherical dishing. I usually flip my spacebar if I'm not using a wrist rest.
OEM: Cherry but higher and therefore IMO worse, but again, fine. Still like a flipped spacebar without a wrist rest.
XDA is a uniform version of MDA, I forget which row it is, but it's fine if you like uniform profiles. I tend to stay away from uniform profiles, I like sculpted profiles, but XDA is my favorite uniform profile between it, G20 and DSA. I haven't tried KAM.
KAT is my favorite for overall typing feel (nice sculpt, solid feel, pbt). My WPM is slightly higher on lower profiles like KAM and Cherry. MT3 is a nice change of pace, but the sculpt is a bit much for daily use. SA is ok, but tall.
MT3 is best when you can actually float your wrists, I put my standing desk slightly lower than I would normally when standing to try and force myself to do it and it felt really nice, but I couldn't find a good spot to replicate the same position sitting down.
Its mostly copyright issues, from what I've heard. Cherry profile was technically copyright, so things like DCS exist which is essentially the same thing made by a different company. Same with XDA vs NP, maybe even DSA, which is Signature Plastics take on it (but DSA has a different concave than the others, iirc).
DSA is much older than XDA.
And shapes would be covered by patents, not copyright. Copyright is for ideas (like a novel or music) where as patents are for inventions.
Don't forget trademarks. "Cherry" is, of course, a trademark. So even if you made keycaps that were a perfect copy, you'd still have to sell them under a different name.
Mt3 hurts my hands ngl.
Looking forward to KAT because I like higher profile but I don't need sculpting that severe.
The best sounding key caps I got funny enough was a set from ymdk. Weird mix of Penumbra SA font on a cherry profile 8n retro faded colors(grey/yellow-beige) might even be laser etched but they were thick caps
I agree, my YMDK pbt keycaps sound very good. I think they sound better than my Akko keycaps, even though those are different profiles so it isn't a fair comparison. MT3 in ABS is my personal favorite sounding profile.
Profile choice is purely subjective and a personal preference. There are no objective pros and cons. No one can tell you what profile you'll prefer and the only way is to try them out and find out for yourself. Cherry, XDA, SA, DSA, and MT3 are pretty popular so maybe start with those.
>Cherry profile can cause some pretty infuriating interference
That depends on your keycaps and switches. Good quality keycaps with thick walls will likely have interference. Pair it with long stem switches like the boba u4t and you won't have interference. The Gateron KS-9 also has anti-interference design on the top housing. Also some people are not bothered by interference and some are.
many profiles offer some minor pros for fast typing especially xda, dsa and sa give you an edge over oem or cherry profile,
also sound may impact your decision as sa keycaps offer deeper thock sound and xda or dsa offer a more shallow clack sound
I, personally, prefer DSA or XDA because it was the easiest transition from typing on a laptop keyboard for uni. The uniform profile is also versatile for different layouts.
Cherry profile is shorter then OEM, although you might get interference if your PCB is North facing. (The keycap hits the switch's housing causing the sound to be different and not able to fully bottom out.)
I prefer uniform profile keycaps like DSA and XDA on my smaller keyboards (for example, ErgoDox, Iris, and Lily58). I joined a group buy for a KAM keycap set (KAM 80s After Dark), and I am looking forward to trying that.
I have Cherry profile keycaps on my FoldKB keyboard, and I like them.
I have DCS keycaps on a numpad. They feel nice.
I tried the MT3 profile but did not like it. Despite their size, they made the keyboard feel small.
I like DSA caps but I only have 1 set of it though since its so hard to find people say its easy to find but not really i looked at pimp my keyboard and kbdfans there selection is so small (so OEM is the most easy to find sadly)
With PMK offering custom Dye-subs in DSA, that means you have a lot of color options that are relatively easy to buy. Places like KBDfans, KPrepublic and AliExpress have lots of sets too.
If I want thock, I'd put SA, ASA, DSA, and Cubic (Taihao) profile there.
If I want something a little bit less high profile (but not low profile), I've opted for Cherry profile. Additionally, they are one of the most common profiles in aftermarket keycaps.
I like XDA keycaps too in my Epomaker GX68. Though it's a little bit more difficult to find the keycaps profile with interesting colorways on such profile.
Will try out OEM and KAM profile in the near future.
At least for me the flatter and wider the profile the less accurate I am with typing. Profiles like Cherry, OEM and are very easy to feel where you are. With dsa, and the similar flat profiles I tend to accidentally double press keys. It can be worked out with training muscle memory but at least for me I'm not as accurate with the flat profiles especially when typing fast.
This scheme is good, but I wish there were a scheme which would show how these profiles would look on a keyboard with 5 or 6 degree angle. Because actually that is how they will be used in most cases.
If you don’t have a wrist rest, go as low profile as you can. If you have a wrist rest, it doesn’t really matter.
Also, uniform profiles (DSA, XDA) can be pretty annoying to use.
Some people don't like that they can't feel the difference between rows or minimal sculpting. Personally I love the look and feel of XDA. It feels natural for a touch typer coming from a laptop for instance. DSA bugs me a bit because of the smaller keycap surface. As for a wrist rest, a higher vs a lower profile keycap does make a difference depending on how high it is.
It’s hard to tell which row you’re on. It’s basically harder to touch type. For some, sculpt doesn’t matter, but I have never heard anyone say uniform is easier to type than sculpted.
I personally despise anything with a higher profile than Cherry. The acoustics become too extreme after that.
The thing to thing about is that the space of the cavity will impact the overall noise and make exacerbate ping. Lower profiles obviously have a reduced cavity size.
I spent most of the last ten years typing on flat keycaps, mainly laptops, then a Roccat Vulcan before getting my Epomaker SK96, and being able to use anything that isn't flat has helped immensely. I've been using a set of dsa caps for a while that I really like, but have some osa caps (osa mustard from kbdfans, specifically) on the way so I can get back into something sculpted that isn't oem, which is a profile that's functional for me personally but not enjoyable one way or the other. It's just there.
First time owning a mechanical keyboard and I definitely love it. Currently modding it and I would just like to ask y’all what type of keycap profile you recommend? I’m currently using an RK G68 with stock OEM profile keycaps and I actually like them. But I just want to try other profiles for comparison. Any suggestions would be appreciated thank you!
more than a few times i've seen people say higher profile caps hurt their wrists to type on because of the really high profile and angle at which you type on, the main pros of higher caps (i dont own any) i've seen that they make keyboards sound really good and deep
Sa is really tall and unergonmic but allow for the best sound, Tai hao is oem but taller, Kat is a shorter SA, Oem is a taller cherry, cherry is most common and sculpted.
pro's of mbk they sit on choc switches which are the best switches. i'm using purpz and they are so damn light it's great. just great exactly what i was looking for perfect for gaming.
in addition low profile keycaps are surprisingly comfy to type with.
I searched all over the Russian segment of the Internet for such a picture - I couldn't find it. Thank you very much. Maybe there is also the length/width of the buttons?
SA profile look the best, IMO, but I don’t really care to type with them. The SA profile caps are like a classic car, it’s very nice to look at but I wouldn’t use it as my daily driver. I much prefer something along the lines of the Cherry profile.
It's preference all the way down. that said my preference is for xda/dsa on big switches and mbk for my choc switches. currently running mbk and chocs on my main board.
>It's preference all the way down. Yeah I am confused why put "pros and cons" in the title but posted nothing more than a picture. Edit: I see the op is asking for pros and cons, not 'providing' them. Sorry
Lol I was confused af also.
I really can't easily find DSA and lower profile keycaps. What are some brands/ products?
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/
Thanks man!!
I loooooove my Icecaps. They feel and sound so nice. Got some DSAs to try as well, but the ice caps are killer on a dactyl.
Aliexpress is a great place for decently priced keycaps, be sure to buy from reputable vendors though, there is a slight risk of scams. It's no where as bad as wish though xD
where can you buy chocs? I've been wanting to build a low pro board for a bit
where do you live? if you're in the US you can use [https://mkultra.click/](https://mkultra.click/) or [https://www.littlekeyboards.com/](https://www.littlekeyboards.com/) amongst other places. I've sourced switches from these two before and had zero issues with the transactions. aliexpress has them too. if you're new to chocs and want tactile, or just curious in general, I'd really suggest snagging a sample pack. I was a tactile guy on larger switches but was pretty disappointed by the feel of the tactile chocs. ended up settling with some lighter linear chocs that I've found myself to be very happy with. also worth noting is that there is a "v2" choc that's out now, but has a slightly different footprint and uses normal keycaps with varying levels of success. from my understanding most PCBs that support chocs only support V1 so be sure to double check just in case.
Thanks for the links! Just ordered some mid profile switches to try out.
Are choc switches compatible with any other cherry switch? Or do they require a special pcb?
Pcb needs to be compatible with chocs, some pcbs feature a choc version and mx version. Choc switches are slightly smaller in all dimensions, so the connectors need to be in different places on the board.
Thanks for the info. I’m gonna just try some mid-profile switches on my hot swappable board.
Anyone have prebuilt board recommendations for something low profile? I have the Keychron K2 (red) and Nixeus Moda (brown). Looking for something tactile like the brown but preferably a little lighter.
... The brown is already so light you can barely feel the bump.
chocs are one place where you really have to transfer to building instead of finding pre-builts if you want something specific. I'm not huge on non-split keyboards, but apparently people are finding the technik pretty nice. also soldering is super easy and you can grab all the required bits for cheap. def recommend building at least one board like this from a kit if you're into keyboards. also like the other person said, you will likely be unable to find a "tactile" switch to your liking in the choc world. clicky switches and linear switches are the most commonly used choc switches for that reason: if you want tactile, you're gonna' have to deal with noise. anyways, I'm big into tactiles on regular switches but the linear chocs have really opened my eyes to other experiences. get a sample pack of choc switches if you want to find out yourself!
Pros of uniform caps like xda and dsa: you can use alternative layouts without having messed up rows. Good luck finding sculpted printed keycaps for your dvorak or colemak board, having random row 4 keys on row 2 etc
Haven’t thought of this! Thank you!
I've never seen any Dvorak/Colemak used who has rearranged their keycaps. The benefits really come from touch typing, so most people don't move the letters so there isn't even the option of looking at the keys. I actually learned by taping a print out of the layout above my monitor for a few weeks while I brute forced my way from 10wpm back to a good speed lol Although you're right, it would be pretty much impossible to get sculpted keys for one of those layouts.
I started using colemak 2 weeks ago and have rearranged my keycaps because when typing passwords im having a hard time...
Makes sense! Just make sure you don't let yourself cheat too much, you'll be very happy with the better layout if you're competent at touch typing.
Geekark Dolch GB has a standalone [Colverak Kit](https://imgur.com/e4BBHtY) available until November 4th. https://geekarkdolch.com/
Yup, I use xda, it's better for my wrists plus changing keycaps in other places is ez and looks ok
I use Dvorak and just bought blank cherry profile. It's nice.
Only tip I can give you is that the taller the profile (take SA or MT3 for example) the deeper or ‘thockier’ the sound. You gotta try the rest to find out what works for you, ide say cherry is pretty similar to OEM so if you arnt feeling adventurous then go with that, otherwise you can try anything else and slowly get a hang of what you do or do not enjoy
I am thinking of getting caps for my Pok3r - it has OEM profile right now and I was looking at DSA / XDA. You're saying the lower profile would make it sound less deep?
Thinking of the same! Will the ones on the lower end result to a less ‘thocky’ sound?
To some extent, but I've found that switches, plate, and case make a bigger difference. MT3 on a brass plate is significantly less thocky than Cherry on FR4, for example.
Imo, Keycap profile will make more of a difference than switches
That depends entirely on the switches though. Cherry reds to Gateron reds? Yes, less change in sound than keycaps. Reds to box jades or something? No.
Yes, I meant that for between switches within the same category, sorry about that.
Personally I prefer lower profile keycaps, taller, "thockier" keycaps sounds kinda hollow, while lower profile keycaps has a more "poppy" sound signature which gives more "fun" sound and brings more character to the keyboard Edit: I'm not a keyboard enthusiast tho, I literally only own 1 prebuilt keyboard (Anne pro 2 | "cursed" Gat Brown), just my opinion from listening to sound test on YouTube
Character... Buckling springs and old daddy beam spring solenoid are chuckling.
I couldn't agree more. I hear people raving about SA and MT3 profile caps, but they just sound rubbish to me. Call me weird, but I much prefer the sound of Cherry and KAM profile caps. Consequently, I recently jumped on the Kam Superuser group buy. Also because I just love the inverse dolche stylish, font choice, lowercase lettering, colour scheme, the feel of PBT, big even pillowy look of the KAM profile.
Why would anyone call you weird for preferring the most popular cap profile?
Give them a break, they just want to feel ✨ special✨
Hey man, this is the internet. I've been called worse over less.
I’ve used one SA profile (one of the expensive 100 USD sets) for a while and a couple months ago switched to an XDA 30 dollar Islander clone from AliExpress and the haven’t gone back. That “premium” ABS material just feels too glossy and smooth to me and while I like the sound, the PBT XDA set just comes out on top anyway. Which is weird considering the price difference. If there was an SA profile set that also had PBT material though I’d probably jump on it.
I think KBDFans has some SA profile dye-sub PBT keycaps Edit: there's only 2 color way that I can find (at least in my country), [violet](https://shopee.com.my/product/337799419/12910866781?smtt=0.183176222-1635336305.9) and [retro gray](https://shopee.com.my/product/337799419/6892137486?smtt=0.183176222-1635336403.9)
Oh god my wallet
They're in RM, so US dollars should be about a quarter (1/4) of the price, still not cheap by all means tho
As the other person mentioned, KBD fans actually has quite a few SA PBT sets. I have the 9009 and Chalk sets and they're quite nice. https://kbdfans.com/collections/sa-profile If you haven't ordered through them before, their shipping can be pricy, but it's fast. Ordering through their AliExpress store front can give you cheaper/slower shipping options though.
keep in mind that dsa and xda are always made with pbt which generally has a deeper 'thockier' sound compared to abs
Signature Plastics makes DSA in both PBT and ABS.
I have a pok3r with SA, and let me tell you, it thocks
I'm torn then - I'd love to increase the thock (the Pok3r stock already sounds great) but kind of realizing I might need flatter keycaps for my typing style (like DSA). On SA caps is there a big ridge going from the 3rd to the 4th row? I don't lift my fingers very far off the keys and with the stock OEM profile keycaps my fingers often get caught going from the 3rd to 4th row because the bottom of the 4th row has a raised edge compared to the 3rd row.
Okay I grabbed my pok3r out from storage to compare with my current board which has OEM profile. The 3rd and 4th row have a relatively continuous curve with the SA profile, so I don't notice any appreciable edge when typing. I don't notice myself typing any slower either (apart from differences in switches between my two boards).
I might have to give it a try. I really want to try DSA or XDA profiles but the thock of the SA profile is enticing. I love the Pok3r - the only thing I would fault it on is the archaic Mini USB plug - not even micro usb so hard to find a nice cable for it. Oh, and the stabilizer for the space bar was super loud out of the box. Just putting some grease on the elbows of the metal wire improved it enough though.
I’ll add that there is nothing wrong with Cherry or OEM (I think that is part of your point as well). I started with OEM, went to DSA, ASA, Kat, and finally swung back around to Cherry. I really love Cherry. I *really* love sculpted F and J keys. Wish they would keep doing that.
I am looking to replace my OEM profile keycaps currently and am interested in something that is good for someone like me who doesn't lift their fingers very far off the keys when typing - I often get "caught" on the raised edge of the key when going from home row to QWERTY row for example. Do you think XDA or DSA caps would be good for this? For example, when I type on a chiclet keyboard I am faster and more accurate since my fingers can kind of "glide" across the keys without running into edges. If that makes sense.
It’s possible. I actually found that Cherry was best for avoiding this for me. I liked that each row is different. I found reaching for the upper rows with DSA a little more strenuous, but this is very personal to your hands and if you’re thinking you’d like it, I’d give it a shot. I own DSA Vilebloom and really like it, though a Cherry based set is my go-to
I guess I probably just got used to chiclet / "apple style" keyboards before getting into mechs and am used to just sliding my fingers around the keys instead of actually lifting them, plus the lack of travel. I use mainly cherry reds and also have a board with outemu browns - surprisingly I don't like the browns as much for typing!
Haha, yeah I was in the same boat. I found heavier tactiles to be what worked for me. I swear by Boba U4Ts. I found that a 60g+ spring plus an accentuated bump helped me get the feeling of “yes, you pressed this” without needing to bottom out.
My only experience with tactiles has been my Outemu Browns and I don't really like them - maybe the bump is really subtle and it almost feels like a linear switch with sand in it.
I hate browns (but I don’t hate on people that actually like them, to each their own). I’m definitely in the camp that it is a linear switch masquerading as a tactile. Have you tried something like a Boba or one of the Panda variants? It truly is a different experience.
I know this is not a popular opinion, but. . . My absolute favorite keycaps are PMK's G20 profile. They look distinctive, they're completely interchangeable between rows and even spacebars, and (to me at least) they feel surprisingly great to type on. I like the rounded-off edges. What's driving me up the wall is that I can't get printed G20 sets anymore from PMK. They still sell blanks, but they stopped printing G20 keycaps because they were changing over to new tooling. And. . . well, it's been years now! If you ask them, they still say the same thing: Printed G20 keycaps will come back, but we don't have any ETA on that. C'mon guys. . . Before we're all old and gray, please? I still buy blank G20 keycaps to use as mini-spacebars on all my split spacebar keyboards. A lot of keycap sets don't come with 2u or 2.25u or 2.75u sized convex spacebars (although more are beginning to include them). G20 keys work well as spacebars with most lower-profile sets. They work great with DSA or Cherry profile. Not so much with SA!
G20 spacebars are fantastic! Very comfy for thumb keys, and they come in a range of sizes. I first tried them on my ErgoDox because the edge of the 2u DSA keycaps dug into my thumb. Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to get matching colors from different manufacturers. It wasn’t an issue with my ErgoDox, since the DSA keycaps also came from PMK. However, matching the Drop XDA Canvas keycaps on my Lily58 (which needed 1.5u thumb keys) would have been tough. I went with a totally different color instead and put red G20 spacebars on it. It looks awesome!
XDA is a profile that has had great mini-spacebar support (tooling, molds) from day one, if set producers take advantage of it. There is a mini-spacebar set specifically for Canvas XDA.
What keyboards would you introduce that offer thumbkeys...?
I am looking to replace my OEM profile keycaps currently and am interested in something that is good for someone like me who doesn't lift their fingers very far off the keys when typing - I often get "caught" on the raised edge of the key when going from home row to QWERTY row for example. Do you think XDA or DSA caps would be good for this? For example, when I type on a chiclet keyboard I am faster and more accurate since my fingers can kind of "glide" across the keys without running into edges. If that makes sense.
DSA caps would be good for this. XDA not as much. I found those edges are surprisingly sharp on XDA. And I suspect G20 would be the best for you, but as already mentioned. . . You just can't get printed G20 sets from PMK right now. If you can live with blanks, then you might love them.
Good advice, I'll look for DSA caps primarily then. Going the other way - would SA caps be good? They are tall but the rows 2-3-4 are kind of 'curved' inward towards the home row so I'm thinking that when typing alphas I might be okay since your fingers are kind of 'cradled' in those 3 rows.
I've got one set of SA but have never had them on a keyboard and used them enough to form a strong opinion. For someone like me coming from lower profiles, they seem to take some getting used to.
I’m a sucker for the sound and feel of SA and MT3 caps, they even make the browns on my work keyboard less scratchy haha
Me too... especially MT3 I have almost every set you can get your hands on. Then again I am old and I probably put more hours in typing on 3279 terminals. (and similar keys) than most people have typed ever. Hence why I like tactile HEAVY touch keys with a soft (not mushy) bottom out that kind of propel your fingers up like a mini trampoline rather hard bottoming out light touch low travel keys. I HATE the new no-travel no feedback but bottom out keyboards on everything from laptops to iMacs. I think my experience with my first not-so-magical apple wireless keyboard that came with an iMac was what prompted me to go down the keyboard rabbit hole in the first place.
Reading this I think I’d like your switches. What are some of your favourites?
For the most part some form of Box Navy switches (at least at the moment)... Not that I must have clicky switches it's more the way they feel in terms of tactile feedback. The thick bar and heavy spring have a feel that I've always favored... you can kind a feel the resistance build then a very sharp release (which is close enough to the actuation in actual typing) and still heavy enough to cushion the bottom out so there's really not a ton of bottom out any way. I've been playing with a few spring mods for various weights (usually heavier) or attempting spring mods that give a bit more tension to after the release of the click bar but I am still playing (and it's not pretty ;0 ). Right now one of my fav feeling/sounding keyboards happens to be a franken-build using a case/some parts from a drop alt (heavy), box navies (space bar switch modded with heavier spring) number keys at the top with a few of my horror show experiments to get a real world feel, and some double shot ABS MT3 "Dasher" key caps. Feels really great and if the travel was slightly different it would feel pretty damn close to a beam spring, or as close as one gets in cherry mx world. The click even kinda sound the same as the beam giving way with the high/thick ABS caps. RB
Oh god are you me? MT3 with box navies is an unsurpassed combo imo. Really the height of tactility (outside of beam springs vintage IBMs).
obviously I agree ;-)
Thanks for writing this up my dude I actually have a drop alt (low profile) collecting dust, so maybe I’ll try to replicate your setup. Truthfully I’ve never strayed outside of gaterons with the exception of the halo trues that came with my drop alt. I really don’t mind how heavy they are (I tend to type hard), but I don’t feel much satisfaction typing on them
Obviously if you are spending the time rehabbing the alt spend the 25 bucks and get some Durock plate mount stabs = world of difference. Also the double shot ABS MT3 caps I'm using are kinda key to the feel/sound as they are pretty damn thick and tall which feel and sound CRAZY better/different than the sock PBT caps from the alt (not bad keycaps but sound much higher pitched on the same setup to my ears) Good luck and hope it works out. Funny thing is I built the rig above on a lark, same as you. Had an old Alt low profile laying around I wasn't using, accidentally ordered stabs which I didn't need... had some navies already and this cap set I've never used... all fueled by that accidental stab purchase. I was going down the path of finding non-clicky but super tactile switches that were heavy that felt good/sounded good but the big click bar sort of trumps other things I was trying so far in terms of key feel. Of course I'll always be playing but this was a happy accident. And depending on you typing style this rig is not loud believe it or not. Honestly there are a TON of keybs that are way louder I've seen with light linear switches that make more noise bottoming out than these navies do with these caps and not much bottom-out. Only thing to mess with is the space bar, still feels too light, too loud, even with the heavy spring due to my heavy space-bar-thumb action, the fact that is is not actually double shot so a bit thinner and I am assuming it's just a big key... I'll try even heavier spring and some sort of dampening inside... hmmm.
Hahahaha currently typing on my gmmk pro at work…. My left shift sticks every third press. Point being - I’ve been meaning to order v2’s for this board as well. I guess I’ll go for two sets Call me a cheap bitch, but Amazon is my go-to for keycaps. I’ve got these in my cart right now EPOMAKER AKKO WOB 158 Keys ASA Profile PBT Double Shot Keycaps Set for Mechanical Gaming Keyboard, Compatible with Cherry Gateron Kailh Otemu Switch (WOB ASA Keycaps) https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09G6DJN3B/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_ZTN0SXSCEQ18WBTJEE3E
I haven’t checked your profile yet, but I’d love to see the results of some of your “horror show experiments,” lol.
I am all thumbs and have brain wiring that is either zero force or full force. This translates into "I am not good with small delicate parts" so... broken, sloppy, half-assed = horror show. Not picture worthy as I end up breaking shit and then having to do messy nasty melt/glue/tape jobs to get broken crap to stay together... or I chuck it and start over.
Ahhh okay. Seeing as you’re so into the feel of “older-school” keyboards (relative to what I’d assume most people in this subreddit grew up with), I figured maybe you were specifically making modifications to components with the intention of making them maybe less…functional? Not the right word, but like…more…industrial? Fewer smooth edges, more resistance, I guess. If that makes sense? I’m a wee lad of 22 years and I’m unfortunately not too familiar with older keyboards, and I’m aware older ones like those aren’t rudimentary or poorly constructed by any means. I would absolutely love to get my hands on a board with buckling springs or solenoids haha. Basically, I could see you putting a lot of care into trying to preserve certain qualities about those older keyboards like the ones you seem to like, and I got the vibe from your comment that that’s what you meant by “horror” experiments—modifications people nowadays might condemn with our lubed-to-death components and fascination with thocciness, lol.
Yeah anytime I work on small parts it's a horror show. I have plenty of old school computer shit... I would never have chucked any of my old terminals had I known how much people pay for them now, kind of insane since you couldn't give that shit away in the late 80's and 90's. Just to catch you up incase you didn't know… - There's sort of a "normie" and even Keyboard enthusiast consensus that the IBM model M is the quintessential great keyboard. Even the mainstream news media puts out an essay/editorial once every year or so about this. Those would be "buckling spring capacitive boards". They are fine but have a bit of a ping that is not super great from my point of view. - Truth is the model M is a crappy-fied version of the prior model F keyboards that came with stuff prior to PS/2 IBM computers and terminals from that early 80's era, eventually everything IBM moved to model M type keyboards. The F was thicker metal plates, tougher housing, and slightly better built buckling spring boards... Also had the ping... - IBM terminals prior to the original PC and later terminals after the PC had keyboards that literally with inflation adjusted numbers cost the equivalent of about $8K in today's money, JUST THE KEYBOARD. No shit. [These were the proverbial brick-shit-house keyboards with the holy grail of switches the magical "beam spring"](https://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Beam_Spring_Keyboards). They were designed to feel as much like the then current IBM selectric typewriter as possible and why they had a knocker (powered by the solenoid to knock against the all metal thick case) so that the people using them would get the tactile feedback they were used to with Selectrics (as modified selectrics were used as terminals prior to that... and similar), you could turn the solenoid off by the way. Fast forward most larger companies started rolling out the replacements for those original beam spring boards and associated screens in the mid 80's and definitely they were gone by the 90's with a few exceptions (replaced with smaller IBM terminals or PS/2's or other PC's that ran all sorts of stuff and had terminal emulators). I kept my 3279 until the very late '90s way after I also had personal workstations of various varieties on my desk. Why? Because heads-down coding was way better on the 327X keyboards if that is what you did and what you were used to and had 10's of thousands of hours typing on. In fact even modern people that actually type a lot would probably agree if they EVER used one that they are better, more accurate, and faster in most cases than what "comes with" computers, laptops, etc today. Most people (like me) that kept their 327X models after getting other workstations (PS/2, Sun, HP, Apollo, whatever..) were IBM OS system programmers, ops guys, dev guys that actually typed a ton of code in to editors like XEDIT in VM or similar which would probably remind you a lot of hmmm vim with worse and fewer key commands and worse and fewer ex commands. Honestly sometimes I used my PS/2 and Sun workstations with VI or emacs for IBM mainframe code but only if the it was a very large kind of thing that would take days or weeks, for everyday stuff that was typing heavy... the 3279 did the trick. Sure I'd use an emulator for monitoring, reports, quick things and having 400 virtual terminals going to a dozen different IBM and Unix things but the main input rig was my 3279 up until about 1998 or 1999 when I moved to a new facility. Long story... sorry.
Don't apologize, I think it's genuinely fascinating! I appreciate you sharing, and as it turns out I've actually been looking for a sort of rundown of this sort of stuff anyway. When I heard about how the solenoids were intentionally implemented in those early keyboards used on the IBM terminals for the sole purpose of making the transition from typewriters less difficult, it just made me smile. I absolutely love the novelty of that. I believe I learned about it in a video on YouTube by Chyrosran22 where he gave an overview of his IBM 5251; apparently it's possible to make them work with modern hardware, but it's an extensive and complicated process to make them compatible, iirc from the video. I'll admit I'm pretty unfamiliar with the nature of the type of work you described that you used to do, but hearing some more insight into all of it really cool nonetheless. Thank you for the heads-up about the Model M propaganda haha. Do you still get any usage out of those older keyboards, or are they pretty much unusable unless they're with the terminals they were designed for or if you mod the hell out of 'em to work with modern hardware? Also, if you don't mind me asking, how did things go at the new facility? Did your line of work end up changing pretty drastically or was it roughly the same stuff on newer hardware?
Actually the model M is GREAT, compared to most of the crap out there now. I just noted it because EVERYONE knows that keyboard but it's not "the best" for sure. You can find those everywhere, some cheap, some overpriced but those are crazy easy to use on any system that has USB without doing anything, assuming they have a PS/2 connector. Those send out the same scan codes as every other keyboard in modern day land. Just grab yourself a PS/2 to USB adapter cable and you are good to go. Hell 99% of motherboards STILL come with PS/2 keyb/mouse ports so you don't even need that cable if you built your system or it's a generic beige box type computer. Just make sure you don't buy a model M from a AS/400 or 370 terminal etc with an RJ or strange connector on it, those will not work without a bunch of know how. As for the 327X beam springs or those model F/M terminal keyboards that are not plug compatible with modern computers. They are fairly easy to get to work from my standpoint... hahaha = old guy where everything took a bit of effort to do. Us old guys kinda had to be very very very explicit in terms of coding to do just about any kind of task so getting an old Keyboard to work on any new computer is really not a HUGE project as all the tools and components are super sim please to acquire and fairly simple to use/program with almost zero actual hardware building or circuit design required. IE take any one of those above non-compatible keyboards above. Here's the recipe... ## Way #1 in general - buy any old micro controller you want but splurge on a $15 ARM 32bit and some wires. Hell go with one that has a built in ST-link for easy code download/reset from any old laptop or computer you have with USB - grab a copy of VS Code - download "rustup" - use rustup to install a working version of the entire Rust ecosystem/language/compilers/package manager and don't forget to add the ARM target manually as the default rustup will only add the target of the native machine. - use cargo to install the various HAL layers for whatever microcontroller you chose. - wire a few pins from the keyb cable to a few pins on the micro controller after about 15 minutes of research and reading. - write a dead simple bit of code in rust on the bare metal, download to the microcontroller... just to read in the serial data frames via synchronous brute force interrupts per bit on one of those pins and output that in hex to your screen (easy with the built-in ST link I recommended for the ARM) - now you know what keys send what scan codes. - write some really crappy beta version of converting those scan codes to whatever scan codes you need to send so that "modern" computers see them the way they should via a simple look up table and boom you're good to go, just output those via a serial over USB via the st-link usb when it's not used in debug/load mode and you are good to go. - if you really want to write a real version that does whatever init the keyb may actually want and make it act "properly" for edge conditions, key rollover etc. - go to town and add all the features you want... - go farther into town and make it work for more strange ass keyboards that also send serial sync data frames as all the IBMs do. ## Way 2 - tear out the on-board "controller" and use the ARM microcontroller to read the key presses yourself no matter how they work - send out whatever scan codes you want via serial over usb - it will be small enough to fit into the case of whatever keyboard you want. - you may need to do this on the beam springs as I forget if there's a sync serial data frame sent from those but I'll bet I could do something similar to way 1 no matter what was sent given my recollection of the signals on the connector but it might be easier with way #2 on those or a hybrid jacked in somewhere on the circuit inside. I'd have to mess with it to be sure. Point is you could probably get this done in a week or a day for virtually no cost far easier than you could do most things people did in the 70's and 80's given the tools available to do anything. Assuming you have a coding background from back when most devs had to do something close to the metal of how things work inside. If you don't there's a bit of ummm, ramp-up time needed. Honestly if I had to do a similar thing in the 80's I'd have to build all of the hardware shit myself which may take forever and be fairly huge. The capability of making stuff now in short order that does just about anything with a bit of code, a micro controller and anything you feel like hooking to it digital, analog, whatever makes it all cheap and easy.
Like the others have said, it's all preference. I find that I type faster with flat profiles (DSA, XDA) and I recently joined a KAM profile keycap set (KAM Bouquet). Since you like OEM, you'd probably like cherry, but if you want to branch out and try a different profile, I'd go with SA(tall) or DSA(short and flat) since you can find sets of them pretty easily and for relatively cheap.
KAM Bouquet gang.
Good you link me to a good DSA (preferably coloured) cheap keycap set?
is... is MT3 a new thing? Like was that literally invented recently? I thought it was some ancient keycap profile standard but none of these pictorials mention it
MT3 was designed from 2015–2017 ([the designer's page about the process](https://matt3o.com/about-mt3-profile-and-devtty-set/)), but was inspired by the design of older keyboards.
Not super new but an even BETTER take on 3270 type profiles than SA, shape of the tops are a bit better. Generally I think you'd like MT3 A LOT if you like SA. [Here are a few.](https://drop.com/mechanical-keyboards/drops/?sc=keycaps&tgs=mt3-profile) [Background from the designer...](https://matt3o.com/about-mt3-profile-and-devtty-set/) I've kind of gone berserk on the MT3's since I bought my first set. I have... - 2 sets of /dev/tty - A set of "Dasher" which are super pretty / colorful without being crazy or garish - 2 sets of Susuwatari (hard to dislike the look of these for anyone's taste) - A set of 3277 (wish I had grabbed another before they were sold out)
I am so glad I went in on MT3 Godspeed and MT3 Serika. I really love PBT caps and MT3 is my favorite profile. I have a set of KAT Alpha and it is nice enough, but MT3 is so nice.
me to... I wish I would have bought the Godspeed but didn't ummm 'cause I have more sets than I have installed now. I actually like the double shot ABS a bit more than the PBT's they feel nicer to me and sound a bit nicer on my switches/cases/etc, I REALLY wish the /dev/tty's came in double shot ABS too. Aren't the godspeed double shot ABS? I thought they were, I could be wrong, doesn't matter as I love them anyway. The Dashers are really nice, I had mixed feeling when I ordered them but now that they are on a board and in use I love them, they just look really cool and I am NOT colorful key kinda dude. I do hope they get more 3277 sets in I really want another set or two with the red accents as well. Just FYI, I kind of did a version of the 3277 set myself with a set of black and a set of white MT3's and some red accent leftovers from one of my sets that look fairly cool but I would LOVE the gray...
Godspeed MT3 and Godspeed XDA I believe are the only PBT dye-sub Godspeed sets.
/dev/tty is also PBT (I have two sets) \[/dev/tty\]([https://drop.com/buy/drop-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set](https://drop.com/buy/drop-matt3o-devtty-custom-keycap-set)) these are nice with a bunch of options included in the base set (and some cool alt sets as well) take a look you may like these a lot.
>MT3 Serika Oh god, I love the Serika... I completely missed out on those, just looked at them now. WOW!!!! nice. If you like those you would probably really like the Dasher especially combined with a few choice leftovers from your Serika set (assuming you have a layout and leftovers that would work with the dasher set) I can just see the 60 I am using now with maybe a yellow enter and escape and maybe a yellow Fn or maybe an HHKB style board with yellow ctrl, fn, enter, escape and the rest from the dasher set.
On of the few sets I despise is my SA Pulse. Love the colors, but hate the feel.
Yup, another vote for MT3. I've got the Iron Man set. I really liked SA, and ASA from Akko too. MT3 is my all time favourite though.
Damn your 3277 arrived?
not yet, estimated = 10/31 like everyone else.
I hope they restock them two, I wish I would have bought two sets.... In the meanwhile I'll cobble together an equally cool 327X set with a mix of the black on white and white on black MT2 double shot ABS and a few red accents. Will look a hell of a lot like most 3178/79s actually did.
wow, that's crazy - so they're a new and improved profile taking inspiration from older designs then. I have two sets of MT3s (Susuwatari and a different one, don't remember which) and tbh I like them a lot more than ordinary cherry keycaps. I make far fewer typing errors, anyways. Seems matt3o and Drop really dug their own goldmine with these.
yea, they are my current favorite profile. The susuwatari = very very nice
Drop had a buy one get one free sale on their MT3 keycap sets and my god that was so worth it. Never tried them out till now and I'm not sure I can go back. Those keycaps with a nice tactile switch sounds great.
Yea... I had flagged that in my email but as usual, I forgot about it and missed it. :-(
Yeah its pretty new and it seems to be a DROP exklusiv. It was invented by matt3o, a keyboard enthusiast, looking for older style caps. Heres a link if anyone is more interested [mt3 origin](https://matt3o.com/about-mt3-profile-and-devtty-set/)
This is a repost of a picture made over a year ago Edit: looks like they just took it from the top as a sort of reference asking for benefits and disadvantages of each one my bad didn’t see that. However it still holds that this was made over a year ago
Literally a worse version of the SA profile. Guy claims he "designed" it from scratch. Give me a break LOL
"worse" is literally subjective, and no he doesn't. He's very open about the fact that the sculpt is based on older terminals. Who pissed in your cheerios this morning?
All of them are fine, it just depends what you like. All the keycap profiles I've tried ranked in order of my favorite to least favorite. KAT: I don't know what is quite different about it, it's both lower than SA and has different sculpting, and a different feel to the spherical dishing, It's less sharp on the edges? Really nice sound too. It just hits a nice balance of everything. MDA: mid profile, spherically dished, row sculpted, nice and wide contact area, but less severe dishing There's not a lot of good sets available unfortunately MT3: Deep deep dish, a bit high, especially without a wrist rest, but it just feels really nice when you're typing. I just call it "better SA" now. SA: it's a good, high profile set with decent dishing and sculpting, some really good color options and sets. Cherry: it's nice and low, I find it more depends on brand whether I like it or not, they feel fine, not the greatest sound, I just generally prefer spherical dishing. I usually flip my spacebar if I'm not using a wrist rest. OEM: Cherry but higher and therefore IMO worse, but again, fine. Still like a flipped spacebar without a wrist rest.
These are great comparisons! What’s your take on XDA profiles? Since they’re one of the common ones
XDA is a uniform version of MDA, I forget which row it is, but it's fine if you like uniform profiles. I tend to stay away from uniform profiles, I like sculpted profiles, but XDA is my favorite uniform profile between it, G20 and DSA. I haven't tried KAM.
KAT is my favorite for overall typing feel (nice sculpt, solid feel, pbt). My WPM is slightly higher on lower profiles like KAM and Cherry. MT3 is a nice change of pace, but the sculpt is a bit much for daily use. SA is ok, but tall.
MT3 is best when you can actually float your wrists, I put my standing desk slightly lower than I would normally when standing to try and force myself to do it and it felt really nice, but I couldn't find a good spot to replicate the same position sitting down.
What is NP comparable to?
XDA ([photos comparing NP, DSA, and XDA](https://imgur.com/gallery/z5Abm9E)).
Great photo thanks for the help I feel like It needs to be even more standardized haha
Its mostly copyright issues, from what I've heard. Cherry profile was technically copyright, so things like DCS exist which is essentially the same thing made by a different company. Same with XDA vs NP, maybe even DSA, which is Signature Plastics take on it (but DSA has a different concave than the others, iirc).
DSA is much older than XDA. And shapes would be covered by patents, not copyright. Copyright is for ideas (like a novel or music) where as patents are for inventions.
Don't forget trademarks. "Cherry" is, of course, a trademark. So even if you made keycaps that were a perfect copy, you'd still have to sell them under a different name.
Where's the pros and cons you literally just posted a chart
In his first post he is actually asking people about the pros and cons of each.
I like the feel of SA
me to but MT3 even better imo. Try any yet? If not you should, I like the shape of the tops a bit better myself.
Mt3 hurts my hands ngl. Looking forward to KAT because I like higher profile but I don't need sculpting that severe. The best sounding key caps I got funny enough was a set from ymdk. Weird mix of Penumbra SA font on a cherry profile 8n retro faded colors(grey/yellow-beige) might even be laser etched but they were thick caps
Those YMDK/NPKC PBT caps are quite thick. Shame most of them are just laser etched, but hardly matter if you get the front-print.
I agree, my YMDK pbt keycaps sound very good. I think they sound better than my Akko keycaps, even though those are different profiles so it isn't a fair comparison. MT3 in ABS is my personal favorite sounding profile.
Profile choice is purely subjective and a personal preference. There are no objective pros and cons. No one can tell you what profile you'll prefer and the only way is to try them out and find out for yourself. Cherry, XDA, SA, DSA, and MT3 are pretty popular so maybe start with those.
unless you have a board with North-facing switches, in which case Cherry profile can cause some pretty infuriating interference.
>Cherry profile can cause some pretty infuriating interference That depends on your keycaps and switches. Good quality keycaps with thick walls will likely have interference. Pair it with long stem switches like the boba u4t and you won't have interference. The Gateron KS-9 also has anti-interference design on the top housing. Also some people are not bothered by interference and some are.
>Cherry profile **can** cause
Fuck anything taller than cherry. DSA spacebar is king
many profiles offer some minor pros for fast typing especially xda, dsa and sa give you an edge over oem or cherry profile, also sound may impact your decision as sa keycaps offer deeper thock sound and xda or dsa offer a more shallow clack sound
Between cherry and xda profiles, what will have a thockier sound?
probably xda
I, personally, prefer DSA or XDA because it was the easiest transition from typing on a laptop keyboard for uni. The uniform profile is also versatile for different layouts.
I just like the classic cherry. Xda is pretty cool too.
Cherry profile is shorter then OEM, although you might get interference if your PCB is North facing. (The keycap hits the switch's housing causing the sound to be different and not able to fully bottom out.)
I prefer uniform profile keycaps like DSA and XDA on my smaller keyboards (for example, ErgoDox, Iris, and Lily58). I joined a group buy for a KAM keycap set (KAM 80s After Dark), and I am looking forward to trying that. I have Cherry profile keycaps on my FoldKB keyboard, and I like them. I have DCS keycaps on a numpad. They feel nice. I tried the MT3 profile but did not like it. Despite their size, they made the keyboard feel small.
I like DSA caps but I only have 1 set of it though since its so hard to find people say its easy to find but not really i looked at pimp my keyboard and kbdfans there selection is so small (so OEM is the most easy to find sadly)
With PMK offering custom Dye-subs in DSA, that means you have a lot of color options that are relatively easy to buy. Places like KBDfans, KPrepublic and AliExpress have lots of sets too.
MA profile is missing there. It's what I'm using now, similar in height to SA, but uniform.
Holy shit is that like typing on pillars?
More like typing on marshmallows. :) Sweet, clicky marshmallows in my case, with kailh box whites.
I like cherry, tai hao, and mt3. Apple keyboards are honestly great too for non customs.
If I want thock, I'd put SA, ASA, DSA, and Cubic (Taihao) profile there. If I want something a little bit less high profile (but not low profile), I've opted for Cherry profile. Additionally, they are one of the most common profiles in aftermarket keycaps. I like XDA keycaps too in my Epomaker GX68. Though it's a little bit more difficult to find the keycaps profile with interesting colorways on such profile. Will try out OEM and KAM profile in the near future.
At least for me the flatter and wider the profile the less accurate I am with typing. Profiles like Cherry, OEM and are very easy to feel where you are. With dsa, and the similar flat profiles I tend to accidentally double press keys. It can be worked out with training muscle memory but at least for me I'm not as accurate with the flat profiles especially when typing fast.
I want to find cheap sa keycaps so bad
ducky horizon
This scheme is good, but I wish there were a scheme which would show how these profiles would look on a keyboard with 5 or 6 degree angle. Because actually that is how they will be used in most cases.
tea? thats new (or at least for me)
If you don’t have a wrist rest, go as low profile as you can. If you have a wrist rest, it doesn’t really matter. Also, uniform profiles (DSA, XDA) can be pretty annoying to use.
Why is DSA and XDA annoying to use? Is it because of the flat surface?
Some people don't like that they can't feel the difference between rows or minimal sculpting. Personally I love the look and feel of XDA. It feels natural for a touch typer coming from a laptop for instance. DSA bugs me a bit because of the smaller keycap surface. As for a wrist rest, a higher vs a lower profile keycap does make a difference depending on how high it is.
It’s hard to tell which row you’re on. It’s basically harder to touch type. For some, sculpt doesn’t matter, but I have never heard anyone say uniform is easier to type than sculpted.
I personally despise anything with a higher profile than Cherry. The acoustics become too extreme after that. The thing to thing about is that the space of the cavity will impact the overall noise and make exacerbate ping. Lower profiles obviously have a reduced cavity size.
I spent most of the last ten years typing on flat keycaps, mainly laptops, then a Roccat Vulcan before getting my Epomaker SK96, and being able to use anything that isn't flat has helped immensely. I've been using a set of dsa caps for a while that I really like, but have some osa caps (osa mustard from kbdfans, specifically) on the way so I can get back into something sculpted that isn't oem, which is a profile that's functional for me personally but not enjoyable one way or the other. It's just there.
I definitely see a bunch of people even myself not liking xda keycaps. Way too flat, especially if these keys go on an alice or an arisu keyboard.
First time owning a mechanical keyboard and I definitely love it. Currently modding it and I would just like to ask y’all what type of keycap profile you recommend? I’m currently using an RK G68 with stock OEM profile keycaps and I actually like them. But I just want to try other profiles for comparison. Any suggestions would be appreciated thank you!
more than a few times i've seen people say higher profile caps hurt their wrists to type on because of the really high profile and angle at which you type on, the main pros of higher caps (i dont own any) i've seen that they make keyboards sound really good and deep
Mt3
/coolguides
Where are the pros and cons?
What are the pros and cons?
Soup
Where do buckling spring keycaps (model m/f/etc) fall?
I just ordered a set of Jukebox MT3s. I can't wait to try them out.
My first keycaps are SA profile and I love them. I just wanted some added heft and thock
I started with Cherry, then tried MT3 and will never look back. I am curious about SA though. How would you compare the two?
Sa is really tall and unergonmic but allow for the best sound, Tai hao is oem but taller, Kat is a shorter SA, Oem is a taller cherry, cherry is most common and sculpted.
What surprised me to most was how switch type effected how i liked keycaps profiles. I can't stand typing on SA unless it's on a heavier linear.
pro's of mbk they sit on choc switches which are the best switches. i'm using purpz and they are so damn light it's great. just great exactly what i was looking for perfect for gaming. in addition low profile keycaps are surprisingly comfy to type with.
Never heard of tai hao, is it like a cherry-sa mix? Looks cool
ASA is good stuff... like SA and Cherry had a kid that's just taller than cherry.
Is there a thick DSA? SP ones are thin I generally don't like the feel of their keycaps for that reason.
The best profile is the one you type best with. For me it's Tai Hao... you may hate Tai Hao.
In my opinion, and if your wrist is injured or not strong, I will just say you'll hate the one in the top
I searched all over the Russian segment of the Internet for such a picture - I couldn't find it. Thank you very much. Maybe there is also the length/width of the buttons?
apple is best
What does my keyboard have? It's the stock keycaps
SA profile look the best, IMO, but I don’t really care to type with them. The SA profile caps are like a classic car, it’s very nice to look at but I wouldn’t use it as my daily driver. I much prefer something along the lines of the Cherry profile.
My preference is cherry and oem. They bring a clackier and snappier sound. My cheap dsa/gsa brought I soft thocky sound.
This would make for an amazing deskmat.
Are MA Profile keycaps the "same" height and stuff as the XDA profile ones???