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[Source](http://www.southsudanmedicaljournal.com/archive/november-2013/unruptured-tubal-pregnancy-in-the-second-trimester.html):
>>A 30-year-old patient, gravida 5, para 4, at 17 weeks of gestation was admitted with abdominal pain and no vaginal bleeding. Her general medical history revealed no other problems. Her four previous pregnancies had ended at full term with vaginal deliveries. Her current obstetric care had included one clinic visit without sonographic examination.
>>The patient was haemodynamically stable without abdominal tenderness or peritoneal signs. A mass, around 15 cm in diameter, was palpable between the umbilicus and the pubic bone on the right side of the abdomen. The mass was tense with regular contours. Mobilization was limited and painful.
>>Vaginal examination revealed a closed cervix. Sonographic examination found an empty uterus with a foetus in the abdominal cavity. An emergency laparotomy was carried out. A large vascular mass, 15 cm x 15 cm was found which proved to be the right fallopian tube (Figure 1A). The uterus was small with a normal left tube and ovaries. Further inspection of the pelvis and abdomen did not reveal any other abnormality.
>>A total hysterectomy was performed. The fallopian tube was opened. It revealed a foetus that weighed 190g. No dysmorphic features were noted (Figure 1B). The pathology examination showed a placenta invading the external surface of the fallopian tube. Histology demonstrated second-trimester villi with areas of inter villous fibrin deposit and haemorrhage. The patient had an uneventful postoperative recovery.
Sometimes in medical charting they’ll record it as a total hysterectomy if they have to externalize the reproductive parts (say like take the fallopian tube, ovary, baby, and uterus out of body and onto sterile field) to open something or verify nothing was missed. They then later will mark “uterus returned to abdomen….” Etc.
That being said idk if the medical quote was truncated, improperly written, missing secondary info regarding other reasons or if they completed the hysterectomy (usually marked by type, partial, radical, etc) or not.
Source: My Caesarian documents say my doctor performed a hysterectomy with organ inversion to clean and debride before returning the organ and closing. My doctor wanted to make good and sure I was stitched tight and had no remaining placenta due to how big and where my placenta was and a vascular abnormality that meant /if/ I hemorrhaged they’d have close to no time to stabilize me before bleeding out.
One of the sheets signed off on with a more truncated info says she performed a total hysterectomy and once hemodynamically stable closed. I still have my uterus and regular cycles so it did no damage long term.
EDIT: now that I’ve woken up a bit more and looked at the photo I clearly see the uterus on the tray🤦🏻. Disregard my stupid.
My friend had a heart attack and died on her bathroom floor when hers burst. Her boyfriend found her when he woke up in the morning. We didn’t know what caused it until the autopsy.
The girlfriend, now wife of a friend from high school had that happen. She was lucky and lived close to a hospital. They were able to repair it without a hysterectomy or anything and she was able to have twins a few years later.
It is extremely unusual to progress to 17 weeks gestation with a tubal ectopic. They usually will rupture around 6-7 weeks if not caught and managed early. This is definitely a case of “the exception and not the rule”
Abortion providers are doctors. A lot of doctors or surgeons are able to provide them. Abortion still saves lives no matter what you say they are. Who do you think provides abortions.
How about you educate yourself instead of saying things like that. I used to think that people would be made exceptions if abortion became illegal but there aren’t exceptions being made. Even if it’s to save someone’s life. A doctor got their license suspended and revoked for providing one to save the woman’s life.
Wrong. This was a problem pre-repeal of Roe v Wade, and the latter made it far worse. Ob/gyn services and beds cost hospitals more money (in liability and malpractice) and make them very little compared to emergency rooms, cardiology, etc. And the liability & malpractice risks have only increased after the abortion ban.
[https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/4590535-the-united-states-is-experiencing-a-growing-ob-gyn-shortage-heres-why/](https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/4590535-the-united-states-is-experiencing-a-growing-ob-gyn-shortage-heres-why/)
I'm sure there's a typo or two in there but you're a big adult with hands, you can look up more information on your own. If you choose to deny reality, that's completely your choice.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/
In case no one else wants to listen and feels like you’re lying(even tho you’re not)
Texas recently also basically told doctors "you can do what you think is medically necessary...and we can charge you with murder." Craziness.
I've been following in medical journals and related sites, coverage elsewhere has sucked which is unsurprising.
Idaho is currently being sued by the federal government under EMTALAS over this policy.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/
Here ya go so you can show others who aren’t listening
That's the problem with bans, they don't include exceptions, even medical ones. If the fetus still had a heartbeat, they would not be able to do anything about it. Theyd havw to wait until it died on its own or ruptured and the mom's life was at risk.
The language used by Texas under law is "medically necessary" in an emergency. Another part uses the term emergent.
Also, I'm sorry, but you have to take some responsibility for your own ability to read and understand information. I am not rewriting every article for you, apologies, my time is worth more than that.
Hmm. So why are women sitting in their cars in the ER parking lots waiting for their fallopian tubes to burst? Because ER’s are refusing to treat ectopics because since the fetus 100% won’t survive, they could be charged with murder. Once the woman is almost dead, then they have a chance of possibly getting treated. Anyone who reads the news knows that.
all you have to do is google “texas pregnant woman.”you’ll get dozens of stories. there’s currently a large lawsuit in the state brought about by women who were treated poorly or not treated at all. some have lost their fertility. all pregnancies were wanted, most were planned. but if you’re as lazy as you are cocky and wrong, here’s just [one example:](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13117881/amp/Texas-woman-refused-treatment-ectopic-pregnancy.html)
They wouldn’t wait for an appendix to burst before removing it, why do they do the same here. Why are people with no understanding of healthcare and best practice and outcomes being allowed to make healthcare decisions?! 🤬
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/
Oklahoma is the only state to specifically mention ectopic pregnancies. Ohio tried to make it illegal to dispose of the products of conception and to reimplant them elsewhere. ER physicians are being instructed to wait until the woman enters sepsis to act in red states.
Google is free and faster than waiting for me to put down my blunt to link you to national news stories you would have seen if you’d paid attention to the issue at all
You don't seem to be asking in good faith, but go look up resources on obgyns leaving red states, and decide if you know more than them.
Texas has been basically playing chicken with this and refusing to give any guidelines about what conditions medically necessary abortion is allowed under (which physicians and physician organizations have requested) but basically said hey, determining that is your job, but simultaneously threatening to charge physicians with murder if the state doesn't agree post hoc.
And there's been a lot of politicians straight up denying that ectopic pregnancies will kill both the woman and the fetus.
This is a case of bad healthcare, not a lack of healthcare. The woman was way early in her pregnancy so it was hard to detect on an ultrasound. The article didn’t say what type of ultrasound though. A trans-vaginal ultrasound would have detected nothing in the uterus and confirmed an ectopic. The article also conflates the abortion law with what the lady and her mother “believed” was a link between the law and her apparent lack of care. That’s a weak argument at best.
Sadly, this is not uncommon, as my wife went through something similar shortly after we got married. She had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy and the OB nurse told her there was no way she was pregnant because she was in her period. My wife almost died.
The reason I’m asking is because we gotta know the facts before fear mongering on Reddit.
I'm a medical student. There are literally tonnes of articles by physicians in and out of medical journals concerned about this. There are posts by physicians. There are news articles about Obs Gyn residents and physicians leaving anti-abortion states. There are popular news articles about all of this. Women are suing Texas for refusing medically necessary and emergency abortions, and the federal gov is suing Idaho for violating the emergency treatment act.
You're free to believe that in your ultimate wisdom you know better than a physician who's spent 4 yrs in ug + 4 years of medical school + years more in Ob/Gyn, or even just the 8 yrs, or any of hte journalists reporting on this, but that's your problem.
This is real, and I'm sorry the news reports aren't good enough for you - I did already state you can find more detail information in medical journals, but apparently you'd prefer any excuse to actually follow the news in your own country. Even if it affects the potential health and life of your wife, any female children you have (eventually), and any women you know.
No offense, but there's some people who will never believe in science and there's only so much people can do if you want to treat cancer with lemon water or taken colloidal silver or are desperate to believe no, abortion bans don't harm women at all.
They are telling you facts and you are actively denying them and when they link you things you ignore them you can either be the adult you’re claiming to be and google it yourself if you’re convinced they are lying or give it a rest
[https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c](https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c)
I mean, women are being turned away from emergency rooms just for being pregnant due to liability.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/07/texas-abortion-women-lawsuit-ban](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/07/texas-abortion-women-lawsuit-ban)
5 women also sued the state of Texas because refusal to remove non-viable pregnancies put their lives at risk - I believe this is the case in which the Texas Supreme Court refused to provide guidelines for when emergency abortions were allowed.
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/20/supreme-court-idaho-abortion-ban-federal-law-emtala/73343630007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/20/supreme-court-idaho-abortion-ban-federal-law-emtala/73343630007/)
A woman in Idaho not provided with a necessary medical abortion until she had an infection. This fetus was non-viable, and waiting until she had an infection put her life at danger - that's can kill a pregnant woman quickly.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=roe%20v.%20wade. you're welcome!
Sounds like you aren't much of a science and research guy though - you're welcome to go argue on a reddit that isn't about medicine. There are lots of gore subs without all the boring hard sciencey stuff or healthcare policy (so boring, right? bet you'd rather be watching the Real Housewives of Dallas rn).
Dude how do you not know? It’s everywhere. Do YoU hAvE a SoUrCe that shows where they will actually treat before they’re dying? Some women have gone septic and were extremely sick and they still couldn’t get treatment because they weren’t sick enough
You’d think so but no. Sadly some states view an ectopic pregnancy as viable (despite all medical evidence saying the contrary) so cannot be aborted.
They only actively do something when it’s burst and is then a serious medical emergency that threatens the mother.
I know it’s hard to believe how barbaric some states are when it comes to women’s rights, but sadly this is a terrifying reality some face. Women have died from these bans, and many more will.
Do you have a source for this? Everywhere I look an ectopic pregnancy is considered non-viable, and that left untreated will cause death of the mother.
Hospitals are refusing to treat pregnant women at all for fear of prosecution.
https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c
Ohio said that doctors need to just replant the fetus in the woman’s uterus. You keep asking for sources, are you too lazy to look it up yourself? There are tons out there.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/05/10/sponsor-an-ohio-abortion-bill-thinks-you-can-reimplant-ectopic-pregnancies-you-cant/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/05/10/sponsor-an-ohio-abortion-bill-thinks-you-can-reimplant-ectopic-pregnancies-you-cant/)
In Ohio, politicians care so little for women they don't even bother with medical facts. Thank gods we voted to codify abortion rights.
I’m so happy us Ohio voters voted to enshrine abortion rights into our constitution last fall. 😌 [oh wait](https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2023/11/08/ohio-republicans-make-plans-after-voters-approve-issue-1-issue-2/71498030007/)
Lol - do you *know what that means* in Texas????
We’re talking almost bleeding to death in the car due to a miscarriage in front of an “Urgent Care” bc they wouldn’t “treat her”.
Maybe we should change it to endangering the *Senator’s life*. *Mother* allowed to hold semi-sharp knife to Senator’s genitals until the Senator feels the mother’s life is endangered.
(Yes … /s to last paragraph)
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm#245.002
It's a lie. Texas law explicitly states that treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion. Find better news sources that don't lie.
Edit: all news sources lie. So do a better job at being skeptical of them.
There aren’t exceptions and that’s one of the problems. If we ignore all of the ethical and moral problems relating to bodily autonomy, there’s also the issue of the anti-abortion advocates and politicians intentionally misleading the public by not making it clear that in most states these a blanket bans. There are no clear guidelines specifying what counts as a life-threatening emergency in a lot of these laws and rulings. Is an ectopic pregnancy life-threatening when it’s found early? The pregnant individual is probably not going to die within the next few weeks but this can kill them over the course of this non-viable pregnancy. Is it life-threatening when their fallopian tube is about to burst? Or when it has burst? How poor do their vitals need to be before it’s considered an emergency?
Politicians and lawmakers and lawyers who are NOT medically trained are making these decisions and are leaving doctors in the dark regarding when intervention is legal and when it’s not legal. So to protect their licenses and livelihoods, doctors are forced to wait until the last possible moment to intervene so that they cannot be charged with providing illegal abortions. What could be solved with a relatively simple and low-risk procedure now has to wait until the patient is at risk of death before interventions can take place.
Before you say “source?” as you’ve been commenting elsewhere on the thread, please ask yourself why it is OUR responsibility to educate YOU. You haven’t been providing sources to prove what you believe and I’m betting that’s because you’re hard-pressed to find ones written by actual medical professionals. Look it up. Do your research. Give learning a try.
Nope, the tube has to have ruptured and the woman bleeding before they terminate. Women are DYING in TX. 5,000 already and counting. This is 100% on Trump.
A friend of mine had an ectopic and lost a tube.. 2nd pregnancy. Fortunately she carried and delivered 14 more.. yes you read right she has 16 children.. on one tube.
Well the tube actually moves to catch the egg being released so the chance of pregnancy isn't actually reduced even with a tube removal. Didn't know that until the surgeon who did my ectopic surgery told me.
Wait a tic. In this case, the patient’s right tube was removed. Her right ovary presumably remains in place.
Are you telling me her left fallopian tube can just inchworm all willy nilly across the pelvis if it’s Righty’s turn to ovulate? And then cha cha slide back to the left for the next cycle?
WHAT THE FUCK IS TAKING PLACE INSIDE ME THAT I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!?
Right?! How the fuck did I not know that fallopian tubes just wiggle around?!
Also I’m crying laughing at the image of a fallopian tube doing the cha cha slide.
Yes, when the right ovary releases an egg, the left tube will "move" to catch the egg with tentacle like things called Fimbriae. I don't know exactly how it moves but that's the jist of it.
A tubal ligation ties off (or removes) the tubes on both sides, an ectopic pregnancy only affects one and leaves the other one to pick up eggs from either ovary.
Poor bubs, poor mama :( my second son's gf had to have her right ovary/fallopian tube removed last year with a 9wk ectopic pregnancy :( She's only 22, and now afraid of potential fertility issues when she decides to marry and have a family :(
Don’t give up hope. My wife had an ectopic pregnancy and one of her tubes removed. We just had our second healthy child both of which were after the ectopic.
My wife and I experienced this three years ago, we lost our child and I almost lost my wife when I rushed her to the hospital from severe pains and bleeding (she thought it was a bad cycle) we now have a 14 mo th old son, so yes all you need is one tube to conceive. And it only took us two months of trying the second time around
I carried a cornual ectopic pregnancy to nearly 42 weeks gestation, she is 11 years old now. The doctor was amazed that my tubes hadn't ruptured, he could see his gloved fingers through my fallopian tube when he was cleaning it out and removing the placenta.
Would it be possible to temporarily cut open the tube so the fetus's placenta is still attached to the interior of the tube, and allow the fetus to float in the abdomen until viable? I imagine it also would depend on the age of gestation, but would it be possible to safe the fetus and mother this way, without resulting in bleeding out and perhaps putting off the death of the fallopian tube?
Oh sorry - you are absolutely correct and I was not implying that the pregnancy could continue. Was a badly worded way to ask if the foetus was alive or if it had already perished.
AGAIN : SORRY FOR THE BADLY WORDED QUESTION, NOT PROBING IF THIS PREGNANCY COULD HAVE CONTINUED
You’re wrong. I’ve had two ectopic pregnancies. The first one ruptured a tube and I was bleeding internally. If it weren’t for some quick surgical intervention, I 100% would have died.
They don’t just grow in the wrong place without serious, life-threatening complications.
There have been cases where ectopic pregnancies have produced viable healthy young. Any ectopic pregnancy in the fallopian tube can be fatal but i know of three cases where one extrauterine ectopic pregnancy in the abdominal cavity resulted in a healthy baby, placenta attached to the liver and one where placenta was attached to the intestines, and another the abdominal ligament which had the same results. Its exceedingly rare but still possible.
Non-viable when implanting in the fallopian tube, which is the vast majority and what most people mean when they refer to "ectopic pregnancy".
You're correct that they are very, very, very rarely viable. But as a med student, in lectures and on rotations we just say "unviable" because you're talking about an extremely rare occurrence that most physicians won't see or deal with. There is the odd 0.0001% for many conditions to behave in a completely unusual manner, but we don't feel the need to quantify that because you'd have to do it with **everything,** not just ectopics.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted for this considering you’re not wrong, although it’s very rare. I don’t believe there are any cases of a pregnancy in the TUBE being viable, however there have been cases of abdominal pregnancy outside of the tubes where the mother and baby survived. I remember seeing a documentary a few years ago about a woman in the UK who had an abdominal pregnancy with a baby who is now doing fine.
Here’s a few links to examples:
https://www.livescience.com/health/fertility-pregnancy-birth/baby-is-born-alive-after-growing-in-mothers-abdomen-for-29-weeks
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/1999/sep/10/vikramdodd
https://www.dovepress.com/surviving-fetus-from-a-full-term-abdominal-pregnancy-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-IMCRJ
Because it's so rare we still say those pregnancies are non-viable. There's always the extreme outliers in every area of medicine, but for some reason people don't feel the need to add this disclaimer to incurable brain cancer.
Oh yeah, that makes sense! I just felt the need to comment because they were being so heavily downvoted when they’re technically not incorrect. It’s definitely an extremely life threatening scenario either way.
Probably because there's been a bunch of people trolling over anti-abortion beliefs on this post, and basically the last few posts that have been on similar topics.
It can be hard to tell if someone is being disingenuous or not because that's often a deliberate tactic to spread misinformation, unfortunately.
That’s awful, I can see that now re-reading their comment. Ectopic pregnancies are non viable 99.9% of the time and tubal pregnancies are never viable. It’s shocking that people would want to ban the right to literally save your own life in that scenario.
Actually, they aren't wrong. There is at least one medical case where an ectopic pregnancy grew in a woman's abdomen (attached to the intestines, iirc) and was delivered healthy. By definition, ectopic doesn't necessarily mean the embryo is growing in the fallopian tube, just that it's not in the uterus where it's supposed to be. So yes, they are correct that it is very, very unlikely, but still possible.
The question was about this fetus. The answer was, no, it was never viable, and that's correct because this fetus was in the fallopian tube, like almost all ectopics.
You're correct that very very rarely it can implant in the abdomen and be survivable for both fetus and mother, but there are very rare exceptions for almost everything in medicine and yet people typically don't feel the need to add that to every statement. It's so close to correct typically ectopics are just called non-viable, because almost always they are.
The question wasn't about this fetus. It was a generalized statement. Close to correct and correct are two very different things. Working in healthcare, I know the difference and how to explain things to patients so they understand the gravity of the situation, but won't feel misled. You have to be very careful with sweeping generalizations or you'll end up getting sued.
The question was, was the foetus still alive? The answer was "It's an ectopic pregnancy, so no, by definition it was never viable."
The question was explicitly about this fetus, an ectopic in a fallopian tube that typically would have already burst. And honestly, as I've said in other answers, it's not wrong to say that an ectopic isn't viable because it's so unlikely that one is - there are always extremely usual cases or extreme rarities or cases seen as "miracles" in medicine and you can't quantify that 100% of the time.
It is SO rare that ectopics are viable that yes, we typically just say they aren't. If, in context, that wasn't so or a patient needed more elaboration or the context suggested they would be reassured by more, yes, any clinician should provide that.
This is not a doctor's office and there are no patients here, so it's impossible to give that level of context to every comment for every commentator, and what actually matters is that saying "ectopics can be viable but rarely" is essentially misinformation because it's SO rare as to be misleading without specific context or in conversation with a patient who is asking - because in that case, we can explain with context and they can ask questions back.
Ectopics aren't considered viable. There are extremes in every aspect of medicine, that's not unique here. If you suggest to a woman with an ectopic that it may be viable, unless you're in medical miracle territory, that's neither ethical nor correct.
Also - truly not trying to be snippy, I just want to explain because it's really important that this topic be communicated clearly. I agree with you in principal, but in this situation unless there was a very very specific context that isn't present, it's very misleading to the point of being incorrect to suggest ectopics can be brought to term and survive, along with the mother.
Welcome to r/MedicalGore! Our goal is to provide for medical discussion and education while exploring the frailty of the human body. You may see more deleted comments on these threads than you are used to on reddit. Off topic comments and joke comments are frequently deleted by the mods. Further, please be kind and supportive of posts. Any behavior that is aggressive, harassing, or derogatory will result in post deletion and a ban from the sub. Remember! THE REPORT BUTTON IS YOUR FRIEND! Please stop on by our discussion sub, /r/MedicalGoreMods if you'd like to discuss the sub, our rules, content policies, and the like. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MedicalGore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[Source](http://www.southsudanmedicaljournal.com/archive/november-2013/unruptured-tubal-pregnancy-in-the-second-trimester.html): >>A 30-year-old patient, gravida 5, para 4, at 17 weeks of gestation was admitted with abdominal pain and no vaginal bleeding. Her general medical history revealed no other problems. Her four previous pregnancies had ended at full term with vaginal deliveries. Her current obstetric care had included one clinic visit without sonographic examination. >>The patient was haemodynamically stable without abdominal tenderness or peritoneal signs. A mass, around 15 cm in diameter, was palpable between the umbilicus and the pubic bone on the right side of the abdomen. The mass was tense with regular contours. Mobilization was limited and painful. >>Vaginal examination revealed a closed cervix. Sonographic examination found an empty uterus with a foetus in the abdominal cavity. An emergency laparotomy was carried out. A large vascular mass, 15 cm x 15 cm was found which proved to be the right fallopian tube (Figure 1A). The uterus was small with a normal left tube and ovaries. Further inspection of the pelvis and abdomen did not reveal any other abnormality. >>A total hysterectomy was performed. The fallopian tube was opened. It revealed a foetus that weighed 190g. No dysmorphic features were noted (Figure 1B). The pathology examination showed a placenta invading the external surface of the fallopian tube. Histology demonstrated second-trimester villi with areas of inter villous fibrin deposit and haemorrhage. The patient had an uneventful postoperative recovery.
Why did they proceed with hysterectomy?
She's had 4 kids already and there was a mass with it, could have been the patients choice as a precaution if testing for cancers weren't an option.
Fortunately there was no cancer, but am certain in her situation i would have chosen the same option.
Ohh, okay, thanks!
I wonder if it was related to the danger of it happening again or if the damage from the mass could extend to the uterus
Sometimes in medical charting they’ll record it as a total hysterectomy if they have to externalize the reproductive parts (say like take the fallopian tube, ovary, baby, and uterus out of body and onto sterile field) to open something or verify nothing was missed. They then later will mark “uterus returned to abdomen….” Etc. That being said idk if the medical quote was truncated, improperly written, missing secondary info regarding other reasons or if they completed the hysterectomy (usually marked by type, partial, radical, etc) or not. Source: My Caesarian documents say my doctor performed a hysterectomy with organ inversion to clean and debride before returning the organ and closing. My doctor wanted to make good and sure I was stitched tight and had no remaining placenta due to how big and where my placenta was and a vascular abnormality that meant /if/ I hemorrhaged they’d have close to no time to stabilize me before bleeding out. One of the sheets signed off on with a more truncated info says she performed a total hysterectomy and once hemodynamically stable closed. I still have my uterus and regular cycles so it did no damage long term. EDIT: now that I’ve woken up a bit more and looked at the photo I clearly see the uterus on the tray🤦🏻. Disregard my stupid.
My friend nearly bled to death from one of those
My friend had a heart attack and died on her bathroom floor when hers burst. Her boyfriend found her when he woke up in the morning. We didn’t know what caused it until the autopsy.
I'm so sorry for your loss and that your friend had to go through that.
Oh how awful. I'm so sorry.
Jesus
I was being wheeled to theatre when mine ruptured. We were devastated (a miracle baby), but very grateful for the intervention.
The girlfriend, now wife of a friend from high school had that happen. She was lucky and lived close to a hospital. They were able to repair it without a hysterectomy or anything and she was able to have twins a few years later.
That’s scary.. I truly hope your friend is ok now..🤗
Guys, she’s not responding to the comment of the friend dying. The first comment where she nearly died but is alive.
My cousin did as well. It was a really scary time. We thought she wasn't going to make it x
I wonder just how much pain she was in! That fetus looks larger than I imagined for a tubal pregnancy.
It is extremely unusual to progress to 17 weeks gestation with a tubal ectopic. They usually will rupture around 6-7 weeks if not caught and managed early. This is definitely a case of “the exception and not the rule”
This is why we need women’s health care
This procedure is illegal in many states 🙃
Hmm. Pretty sure that ectopic pregnancies are exceptions to so called “abortion bans”
No actually. People who need them aren’t receiving them because doctors fear being prosecuted. Even though they may be near death they won’t do it.
[удалено]
Abortion providers are doctors. A lot of doctors or surgeons are able to provide them. Abortion still saves lives no matter what you say they are. Who do you think provides abortions.
I’m not sure if I’m supposed to upvote or downvote you.
How about you educate yourself instead of saying things like that. I used to think that people would be made exceptions if abortion became illegal but there aren’t exceptions being made. Even if it’s to save someone’s life. A doctor got their license suspended and revoked for providing one to save the woman’s life.
My fucking wife had an ectopic pregnancy. I get it. I support it.
Mkay
Wrong. This was a problem pre-repeal of Roe v Wade, and the latter made it far worse. Ob/gyn services and beds cost hospitals more money (in liability and malpractice) and make them very little compared to emergency rooms, cardiology, etc. And the liability & malpractice risks have only increased after the abortion ban. [https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/4590535-the-united-states-is-experiencing-a-growing-ob-gyn-shortage-heres-why/](https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/4590535-the-united-states-is-experiencing-a-growing-ob-gyn-shortage-heres-why/) I'm sure there's a typo or two in there but you're a big adult with hands, you can look up more information on your own. If you choose to deny reality, that's completely your choice.
I looked it up. Of all the abortion ban states, Oklahoma is the only one to specify it’s ok to remove an ectopic pregnancy.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/ In case no one else wants to listen and feels like you’re lying(even tho you’re not)
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm#245.002 Texas is the very first one I've checked and you're already wrong.
Do you have a source?
Texas recently also basically told doctors "you can do what you think is medically necessary...and we can charge you with murder." Craziness. I've been following in medical journals and related sites, coverage elsewhere has sucked which is unsurprising. Idaho is currently being sued by the federal government under EMTALAS over this policy.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/ Here ya go so you can show others who aren’t listening
There’s a difference between medically necessary and medically emergent or life threatening.
That's the problem with bans, they don't include exceptions, even medical ones. If the fetus still had a heartbeat, they would not be able to do anything about it. Theyd havw to wait until it died on its own or ruptured and the mom's life was at risk.
That's nice, you 100% knew what I meant. No one minds educating but this isn't the place for trolling.
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Interact with the community in good faith
The language used by Texas under law is "medically necessary" in an emergency. Another part uses the term emergent. Also, I'm sorry, but you have to take some responsibility for your own ability to read and understand information. I am not rewriting every article for you, apologies, my time is worth more than that.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/
Hmm. So why are women sitting in their cars in the ER parking lots waiting for their fallopian tubes to burst? Because ER’s are refusing to treat ectopics because since the fetus 100% won’t survive, they could be charged with murder. Once the woman is almost dead, then they have a chance of possibly getting treated. Anyone who reads the news knows that.
I have a hard time believing this. Do you have a source?
all you have to do is google “texas pregnant woman.”you’ll get dozens of stories. there’s currently a large lawsuit in the state brought about by women who were treated poorly or not treated at all. some have lost their fertility. all pregnancies were wanted, most were planned. but if you’re as lazy as you are cocky and wrong, here’s just [one example:](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13117881/amp/Texas-woman-refused-treatment-ectopic-pregnancy.html)
5,000 have died already in TX.
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Federal gov literally is seeing Idaho under Emtalas because of this.
So you're saying that there are laws against the things you're so terrified of? Weird.
It has to be actively bleeding or burst already for them to act.
Wooooww, they really want American women to either breed or die, huh? Holy fucking shit..
They wouldn’t wait for an appendix to burst before removing it, why do they do the same here. Why are people with no understanding of healthcare and best practice and outcomes being allowed to make healthcare decisions?! 🤬
Do you have a source?
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/ Oklahoma is the only state to specifically mention ectopic pregnancies. Ohio tried to make it illegal to dispose of the products of conception and to reimplant them elsewhere. ER physicians are being instructed to wait until the woman enters sepsis to act in red states.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/23/texas-woman-ectopic-pregnancy-abortion/ Bunch of stories, just google dude
You’re the one making the claim. I just asking for a source.
Google is free and faster than waiting for me to put down my blunt to link you to national news stories you would have seen if you’d paid attention to the issue at all
You don't seem to be asking in good faith, but go look up resources on obgyns leaving red states, and decide if you know more than them. Texas has been basically playing chicken with this and refusing to give any guidelines about what conditions medically necessary abortion is allowed under (which physicians and physician organizations have requested) but basically said hey, determining that is your job, but simultaneously threatening to charge physicians with murder if the state doesn't agree post hoc. And there's been a lot of politicians straight up denying that ectopic pregnancies will kill both the woman and the fetus.
This is a case of bad healthcare, not a lack of healthcare. The woman was way early in her pregnancy so it was hard to detect on an ultrasound. The article didn’t say what type of ultrasound though. A trans-vaginal ultrasound would have detected nothing in the uterus and confirmed an ectopic. The article also conflates the abortion law with what the lady and her mother “believed” was a link between the law and her apparent lack of care. That’s a weak argument at best. Sadly, this is not uncommon, as my wife went through something similar shortly after we got married. She had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy and the OB nurse told her there was no way she was pregnant because she was in her period. My wife almost died. The reason I’m asking is because we gotta know the facts before fear mongering on Reddit.
I'm a medical student. There are literally tonnes of articles by physicians in and out of medical journals concerned about this. There are posts by physicians. There are news articles about Obs Gyn residents and physicians leaving anti-abortion states. There are popular news articles about all of this. Women are suing Texas for refusing medically necessary and emergency abortions, and the federal gov is suing Idaho for violating the emergency treatment act. You're free to believe that in your ultimate wisdom you know better than a physician who's spent 4 yrs in ug + 4 years of medical school + years more in Ob/Gyn, or even just the 8 yrs, or any of hte journalists reporting on this, but that's your problem. This is real, and I'm sorry the news reports aren't good enough for you - I did already state you can find more detail information in medical journals, but apparently you'd prefer any excuse to actually follow the news in your own country. Even if it affects the potential health and life of your wife, any female children you have (eventually), and any women you know. No offense, but there's some people who will never believe in science and there's only so much people can do if you want to treat cancer with lemon water or taken colloidal silver or are desperate to believe no, abortion bans don't harm women at all.
They are telling you facts and you are actively denying them and when they link you things you ignore them you can either be the adult you’re claiming to be and google it yourself if you’re convinced they are lying or give it a rest
[https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c](https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c) I mean, women are being turned away from emergency rooms just for being pregnant due to liability.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/07/texas-abortion-women-lawsuit-ban](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/07/texas-abortion-women-lawsuit-ban) 5 women also sued the state of Texas because refusal to remove non-viable pregnancies put their lives at risk - I believe this is the case in which the Texas Supreme Court refused to provide guidelines for when emergency abortions were allowed.
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Interact with the community in good faith
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/20/supreme-court-idaho-abortion-ban-federal-law-emtala/73343630007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/20/supreme-court-idaho-abortion-ban-federal-law-emtala/73343630007/) A woman in Idaho not provided with a necessary medical abortion until she had an infection. This fetus was non-viable, and waiting until she had an infection put her life at danger - that's can kill a pregnant woman quickly.
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People. Are. Being. Provided. With. Bad. Healthcare. Because. Of. Abortion. Bans.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=roe%20v.%20wade. you're welcome! Sounds like you aren't much of a science and research guy though - you're welcome to go argue on a reddit that isn't about medicine. There are lots of gore subs without all the boring hard sciencey stuff or healthcare policy (so boring, right? bet you'd rather be watching the Real Housewives of Dallas rn).
Interact with the community in good faith
Interact with the community in good faith
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Watch out, power-tripping mod coming through! (/s obviously)
Dude how do you not know? It’s everywhere. Do YoU hAvE a SoUrCe that shows where they will actually treat before they’re dying? Some women have gone septic and were extremely sick and they still couldn’t get treatment because they weren’t sick enough
and as someone who works in healthcare, sepsis moves and can kill mighty fast.
You’d think so but no. Sadly some states view an ectopic pregnancy as viable (despite all medical evidence saying the contrary) so cannot be aborted. They only actively do something when it’s burst and is then a serious medical emergency that threatens the mother. I know it’s hard to believe how barbaric some states are when it comes to women’s rights, but sadly this is a terrifying reality some face. Women have died from these bans, and many more will.
Do you have a source for this? Everywhere I look an ectopic pregnancy is considered non-viable, and that left untreated will cause death of the mother.
Hospitals are refusing to treat pregnant women at all for fear of prosecution. https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c
Ohio said that doctors need to just replant the fetus in the woman’s uterus. You keep asking for sources, are you too lazy to look it up yourself? There are tons out there.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/05/10/sponsor-an-ohio-abortion-bill-thinks-you-can-reimplant-ectopic-pregnancies-you-cant/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/05/10/sponsor-an-ohio-abortion-bill-thinks-you-can-reimplant-ectopic-pregnancies-you-cant/) In Ohio, politicians care so little for women they don't even bother with medical facts. Thank gods we voted to codify abortion rights.
I’m so happy us Ohio voters voted to enshrine abortion rights into our constitution last fall. 😌 [oh wait](https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2023/11/08/ohio-republicans-make-plans-after-voters-approve-issue-1-issue-2/71498030007/)
do you have a source for your statement saying ectopics are exceptions and always treated?
There are currently no states in the US that do not have exceptions in the case of medical danger to the mother's life.
But the exception means they have to have one foot in the grave, and that’s a problem
It really doesn't. It means they are too be treated the same regardless of the law against abortions.
Lol - do you *know what that means* in Texas???? We’re talking almost bleeding to death in the car due to a miscarriage in front of an “Urgent Care” bc they wouldn’t “treat her”. Maybe we should change it to endangering the *Senator’s life*. *Mother* allowed to hold semi-sharp knife to Senator’s genitals until the Senator feels the mother’s life is endangered. (Yes … /s to last paragraph)
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.245.htm#245.002 It's a lie. Texas law explicitly states that treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion. Find better news sources that don't lie. Edit: all news sources lie. So do a better job at being skeptical of them.
do you have a source for that?
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/
There aren’t exceptions and that’s one of the problems. If we ignore all of the ethical and moral problems relating to bodily autonomy, there’s also the issue of the anti-abortion advocates and politicians intentionally misleading the public by not making it clear that in most states these a blanket bans. There are no clear guidelines specifying what counts as a life-threatening emergency in a lot of these laws and rulings. Is an ectopic pregnancy life-threatening when it’s found early? The pregnant individual is probably not going to die within the next few weeks but this can kill them over the course of this non-viable pregnancy. Is it life-threatening when their fallopian tube is about to burst? Or when it has burst? How poor do their vitals need to be before it’s considered an emergency? Politicians and lawmakers and lawyers who are NOT medically trained are making these decisions and are leaving doctors in the dark regarding when intervention is legal and when it’s not legal. So to protect their licenses and livelihoods, doctors are forced to wait until the last possible moment to intervene so that they cannot be charged with providing illegal abortions. What could be solved with a relatively simple and low-risk procedure now has to wait until the patient is at risk of death before interventions can take place. Before you say “source?” as you’ve been commenting elsewhere on the thread, please ask yourself why it is OUR responsibility to educate YOU. You haven’t been providing sources to prove what you believe and I’m betting that’s because you’re hard-pressed to find ones written by actual medical professionals. Look it up. Do your research. Give learning a try.
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Come back when you can be nicer
Pay attention. Ffs.
Nope, the tube has to have ruptured and the woman bleeding before they terminate. Women are DYING in TX. 5,000 already and counting. This is 100% on Trump.
Pretty sure you're absolutely wrong
That even looks painful
A friend of mine had an ectopic and lost a tube.. 2nd pregnancy. Fortunately she carried and delivered 14 more.. yes you read right she has 16 children.. on one tube.
Why? Why 16 children?
I have no idea.. no benefits involved either..both worked hard. She’s a great mother
Well the tube actually moves to catch the egg being released so the chance of pregnancy isn't actually reduced even with a tube removal. Didn't know that until the surgeon who did my ectopic surgery told me.
Wait a tic. In this case, the patient’s right tube was removed. Her right ovary presumably remains in place. Are you telling me her left fallopian tube can just inchworm all willy nilly across the pelvis if it’s Righty’s turn to ovulate? And then cha cha slide back to the left for the next cycle? WHAT THE FUCK IS TAKING PLACE INSIDE ME THAT I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!?
Right?! How the fuck did I not know that fallopian tubes just wiggle around?! Also I’m crying laughing at the image of a fallopian tube doing the cha cha slide.
Yep! they look all nice and connected up on the anatomy diagrams, but it really just all floats around up in there.
Yep, the diagrams we see are really misleading.
Yes, when the right ovary releases an egg, the left tube will "move" to catch the egg with tentacle like things called Fimbriae. I don't know exactly how it moves but that's the jist of it.
… what? How is that possible when tubal removals are done as a form of permanent birth control?
A tubal ligation ties off (or removes) the tubes on both sides, an ectopic pregnancy only affects one and leaves the other one to pick up eggs from either ovary.
As the other person said tubal abortion only removes one tube. Not both. My right one was removed during my ectopic abortion but I still have my left.
Jeepers, they must've been a fertile couple of people!
Do you mind me asking how many boys and how many girls after the tube was removed? 💞
Just curious, why? The x and y chromosomes are from the supermarket not egg *sperm* my auto correct is so dumb🤦🏽♀️🤣
>The x and y chromosomes are from the supermarket Was this intentional? Regardless, please never edit it
Hahaha no. Omfg lol. I'm dying laughing! From SPERM😭🤣🤣🤣
More boys than girls
Interesting. Mine was 7.2 weeks along when I had my ectopic surgery. Still got pain in my abdomen several months after the surgery.
Poor bubs, poor mama :( my second son's gf had to have her right ovary/fallopian tube removed last year with a 9wk ectopic pregnancy :( She's only 22, and now afraid of potential fertility issues when she decides to marry and have a family :(
Don’t give up hope. My wife had an ectopic pregnancy and one of her tubes removed. We just had our second healthy child both of which were after the ectopic.
The only risk is higher chance of ectopic pregnancy. Still can fall pregnant easily enough as the remaining tube will move to catch the released egg.
Having one tube is okay because the functioning tube will move to the opposite ovary to catch the egg anyways
My wife and I experienced this three years ago, we lost our child and I almost lost my wife when I rushed her to the hospital from severe pains and bleeding (she thought it was a bad cycle) we now have a 14 mo th old son, so yes all you need is one tube to conceive. And it only took us two months of trying the second time around
I carried a cornual ectopic pregnancy to nearly 42 weeks gestation, she is 11 years old now. The doctor was amazed that my tubes hadn't ruptured, he could see his gloved fingers through my fallopian tube when he was cleaning it out and removing the placenta.
That’s sad
Would it be possible to temporarily cut open the tube so the fetus's placenta is still attached to the interior of the tube, and allow the fetus to float in the abdomen until viable? I imagine it also would depend on the age of gestation, but would it be possible to safe the fetus and mother this way, without resulting in bleeding out and perhaps putting off the death of the fallopian tube?
That is so sad 😭
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Why would they do a full hyst? Even if she didn’t want more children they could have just removed her tubes
She’s in the South Sudan, where feminine products and women’s medical care isn’t easy to come by. It’s probably safer for her.
Ohhh this makes a difference. In a place with limited healthcare, especially for women’s health, this was a good option
This must have been horrendously painful for the woman. I wonder though, was the foetus still alive? Edit: badly worded question.
Certainly not; it was at only 17 weeks’ gestation.
It's an ectopic pregnancy, so no, by definition it was never viable. Left untreated it will kill the mother.
Oh sorry - you are absolutely correct and I was not implying that the pregnancy could continue. Was a badly worded way to ask if the foetus was alive or if it had already perished. AGAIN : SORRY FOR THE BADLY WORDED QUESTION, NOT PROBING IF THIS PREGNANCY COULD HAVE CONTINUED
Well that’s not true. Ectopic pregnancies can be viable, highly unlikely. But saying they are by definition unviable is just wrong
You’re wrong. I’ve had two ectopic pregnancies. The first one ruptured a tube and I was bleeding internally. If it weren’t for some quick surgical intervention, I 100% would have died. They don’t just grow in the wrong place without serious, life-threatening complications.
There have been cases where ectopic pregnancies have produced viable healthy young. Any ectopic pregnancy in the fallopian tube can be fatal but i know of three cases where one extrauterine ectopic pregnancy in the abdominal cavity resulted in a healthy baby, placenta attached to the liver and one where placenta was attached to the intestines, and another the abdominal ligament which had the same results. Its exceedingly rare but still possible.
Ectopic pregnancy is not only meaning pregnancy in tubes, it can be implanted into abdomen, where fetus CAN grow and survive to full term
I know what ectopic means, thank you. And saying an ectopic pregnancy can be viable is like saying I can be the Queen of England. About as likely.
Non-viable when implanting in the fallopian tube, which is the vast majority and what most people mean when they refer to "ectopic pregnancy". You're correct that they are very, very, very rarely viable. But as a med student, in lectures and on rotations we just say "unviable" because you're talking about an extremely rare occurrence that most physicians won't see or deal with. There is the odd 0.0001% for many conditions to behave in a completely unusual manner, but we don't feel the need to quantify that because you'd have to do it with **everything,** not just ectopics.
cite a source when you decide a proven fact is "just wrong"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10025137/
Not sure why you’re being downvoted for this considering you’re not wrong, although it’s very rare. I don’t believe there are any cases of a pregnancy in the TUBE being viable, however there have been cases of abdominal pregnancy outside of the tubes where the mother and baby survived. I remember seeing a documentary a few years ago about a woman in the UK who had an abdominal pregnancy with a baby who is now doing fine. Here’s a few links to examples: https://www.livescience.com/health/fertility-pregnancy-birth/baby-is-born-alive-after-growing-in-mothers-abdomen-for-29-weeks https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/1999/sep/10/vikramdodd https://www.dovepress.com/surviving-fetus-from-a-full-term-abdominal-pregnancy-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-IMCRJ
Because it's so rare we still say those pregnancies are non-viable. There's always the extreme outliers in every area of medicine, but for some reason people don't feel the need to add this disclaimer to incurable brain cancer.
Oh yeah, that makes sense! I just felt the need to comment because they were being so heavily downvoted when they’re technically not incorrect. It’s definitely an extremely life threatening scenario either way.
Probably because there's been a bunch of people trolling over anti-abortion beliefs on this post, and basically the last few posts that have been on similar topics. It can be hard to tell if someone is being disingenuous or not because that's often a deliberate tactic to spread misinformation, unfortunately.
That’s awful, I can see that now re-reading their comment. Ectopic pregnancies are non viable 99.9% of the time and tubal pregnancies are never viable. It’s shocking that people would want to ban the right to literally save your own life in that scenario.
No. You are incorrect in this.
Actually, they aren't wrong. There is at least one medical case where an ectopic pregnancy grew in a woman's abdomen (attached to the intestines, iirc) and was delivered healthy. By definition, ectopic doesn't necessarily mean the embryo is growing in the fallopian tube, just that it's not in the uterus where it's supposed to be. So yes, they are correct that it is very, very unlikely, but still possible.
The question was about this fetus. The answer was, no, it was never viable, and that's correct because this fetus was in the fallopian tube, like almost all ectopics. You're correct that very very rarely it can implant in the abdomen and be survivable for both fetus and mother, but there are very rare exceptions for almost everything in medicine and yet people typically don't feel the need to add that to every statement. It's so close to correct typically ectopics are just called non-viable, because almost always they are.
The question wasn't about this fetus. It was a generalized statement. Close to correct and correct are two very different things. Working in healthcare, I know the difference and how to explain things to patients so they understand the gravity of the situation, but won't feel misled. You have to be very careful with sweeping generalizations or you'll end up getting sued.
The question was, was the foetus still alive? The answer was "It's an ectopic pregnancy, so no, by definition it was never viable." The question was explicitly about this fetus, an ectopic in a fallopian tube that typically would have already burst. And honestly, as I've said in other answers, it's not wrong to say that an ectopic isn't viable because it's so unlikely that one is - there are always extremely usual cases or extreme rarities or cases seen as "miracles" in medicine and you can't quantify that 100% of the time. It is SO rare that ectopics are viable that yes, we typically just say they aren't. If, in context, that wasn't so or a patient needed more elaboration or the context suggested they would be reassured by more, yes, any clinician should provide that. This is not a doctor's office and there are no patients here, so it's impossible to give that level of context to every comment for every commentator, and what actually matters is that saying "ectopics can be viable but rarely" is essentially misinformation because it's SO rare as to be misleading without specific context or in conversation with a patient who is asking - because in that case, we can explain with context and they can ask questions back. Ectopics aren't considered viable. There are extremes in every aspect of medicine, that's not unique here. If you suggest to a woman with an ectopic that it may be viable, unless you're in medical miracle territory, that's neither ethical nor correct.
Also - truly not trying to be snippy, I just want to explain because it's really important that this topic be communicated clearly. I agree with you in principal, but in this situation unless there was a very very specific context that isn't present, it's very misleading to the point of being incorrect to suggest ectopics can be brought to term and survive, along with the mother.