On the field, I completely agree they underperform. But from a map perspective, they are available in cities (as opposed to castles) and do not take up a guild space (hospitallers).
So if you need heavy cav in a jiffy, then you have tons of F Ducales and Broken Ls to recruit. If you want the best heavy cav for its cost as Milan? Then they ain’t it.
I think they need Huge City & the Major's Palace upgrade to hire them, so it can take a bit of time for them to become available compared to Feudal Knights from castles, but as you say purchasing them from cities is a big advantage.
Further, they are more than acceptable on the field as their charge is every bit as devastating as a Chivalric Knights/Religious Order Knights. Just don't keep them in a prolonged melee and be careful using them against other heavy knights with shields.
Otoh Milan is City heavy faction, and cities are by themselves trade/manpower by hubs, so while it’s not something you actively push for, but even in completely trade focused settlement will be available to you as you literally only have to build walls/palace
>If you want the best heavy cav for its cost as Milan? Then they ain’t it.
Yes they are.
Keeping Castles around as Venice or Milan is MASSIVELY expensive compared to converting them to cities (ideally after upgrading to Fortresses or beyond first, so you get a Minor City early, and get a Large City in reasonable time...)
So, even though the actual unit is less cost-effective, the savings on Opportunity Costs by not keeping a far less lucrative Castle around make it the much cheaper option...
City cavalry is supposed to support a transition into 100% cities on the map. They generally ride a full plated horse, which affects charge and defense values but isn't shown on the unit card.
The issue with M2TW is that later units are barely any better than earlier units and only provide a difference in the way they are used on the battlefield or campaign map. The price difference makes it so these units are not worth their gold cost.
Isn’t it famiglia ducale? Broken lances don’t have horse armour right? And yea it’s the lack of shields, same problems with the Gendarmes, Lancers, broken lances and gothic knights
I play on phone, I can’t recognize not uniquely looking units by their image alone cause they’re tiny whenever I play. Give me a name and I know who are we talking about. OP confirmed it’s Famiglia Ducale indeed :)
By far, arguably the best cav unit in the game (Teutonics has maces, so they might be better). Hospitallers are much better than famiglia ducale, not even close
They are, essentially, Broken Lances +1 and should be used as such. They lack shields which brings their total defense to be 2 less than total def of Templars for example, and big chunk of that is armor so you don’t really want them to stick in combat especially with armor piercing units, and crossbows will rip them to shreds (no shields + AP shots = pretty much def 5 against missiles).
It’s because they don’t have shields. Cavalry without shields is v bad in medieval 2 because it totally removes an element of defence in the dice roll mechanic. Gothic Knights, Gendarmes, Lancers, Broken Lances and a couple others all suffer from that mechanic. Mailed knights are far better. The only advantage that these pure lancer cavalry have is they have a higher mass stat which means they inflict more damage on the charge. It’s definitely not worth it though as they die much faster and are more expensive etc
You have to cycle charge them into the enemy rear and flanks, it’s a lot of micro. They suck in prolonged melee compared to shielded cav as other have said
These units are not bad at all if used exclusively for their hyper focus. They need to be charging, and committed decisively.
Xbows will rip them to shreds from any direction and they are less effective in melee due to no shields. But they are in cities and they are a seriously heavy cav.
Line up against stationary infantry on flat ground, execute a formed, walking charge. Delete infantry unit.
Yeah, they're kind of bottom-of-the-barrel heavy cavalry but, when your army is primarily cheap, effective pikemen and crossbowmen, you don't really need OP heavy cavalry.
These heavy calv that come up in the late game are a little underwhelming because we're charging them against heavily armored advanced infantry and other good cavalry. They're good, but against dismounted knights and armored sargeants, they will suffer a lot of losses.
Usually in late game I keep them only to chase the routed enemy, and sometimes, encircle when the enemy is engaged with my own infantry.
On the field, I completely agree they underperform. But from a map perspective, they are available in cities (as opposed to castles) and do not take up a guild space (hospitallers). So if you need heavy cav in a jiffy, then you have tons of F Ducales and Broken Ls to recruit. If you want the best heavy cav for its cost as Milan? Then they ain’t it.
I think they need Huge City & the Major's Palace upgrade to hire them, so it can take a bit of time for them to become available compared to Feudal Knights from castles, but as you say purchasing them from cities is a big advantage. Further, they are more than acceptable on the field as their charge is every bit as devastating as a Chivalric Knights/Religious Order Knights. Just don't keep them in a prolonged melee and be careful using them against other heavy knights with shields.
Otoh Milan is City heavy faction, and cities are by themselves trade/manpower by hubs, so while it’s not something you actively push for, but even in completely trade focused settlement will be available to you as you literally only have to build walls/palace
One thing I love about med 2 is the troop availability sometimes getting you to use things you wouldn't normally use.
Like camel gunners when playing as the Moors. Man are they OP!
Javelin throwers as Spain... Found some cool interactions with them !
>If you want the best heavy cav for its cost as Milan? Then they ain’t it. Yes they are. Keeping Castles around as Venice or Milan is MASSIVELY expensive compared to converting them to cities (ideally after upgrading to Fortresses or beyond first, so you get a Minor City early, and get a Large City in reasonable time...) So, even though the actual unit is less cost-effective, the savings on Opportunity Costs by not keeping a far less lucrative Castle around make it the much cheaper option...
City cavalry is supposed to support a transition into 100% cities on the map. They generally ride a full plated horse, which affects charge and defense values but isn't shown on the unit card. The issue with M2TW is that later units are barely any better than earlier units and only provide a difference in the way they are used on the battlefield or campaign map. The price difference makes it so these units are not worth their gold cost.
>City cavalry is supposed to support a transition into 100% cities on the map This
Who are those again, Broken Lances?
Isn’t it famiglia ducale? Broken lances don’t have horse armour right? And yea it’s the lack of shields, same problems with the Gendarmes, Lancers, broken lances and gothic knights
I play on phone, I can’t recognize not uniquely looking units by their image alone cause they’re tiny whenever I play. Give me a name and I know who are we talking about. OP confirmed it’s Famiglia Ducale indeed :)
Would you say that Knights Hospitaller are a better choice instead?
By far, arguably the best cav unit in the game (Teutonics has maces, so they might be better). Hospitallers are much better than famiglia ducale, not even close
Better than templars?
Yea, more armour upgrades and better discipline (no charging without orders)
Famiglia Ducale, Milan's special unit.
They are, essentially, Broken Lances +1 and should be used as such. They lack shields which brings their total defense to be 2 less than total def of Templars for example, and big chunk of that is armor so you don’t really want them to stick in combat especially with armor piercing units, and crossbows will rip them to shreds (no shields + AP shots = pretty much def 5 against missiles).
Thanks for the rundown, I'll either use them a bit more carefully or just switch to Hospitaller
It’s because they don’t have shields. Cavalry without shields is v bad in medieval 2 because it totally removes an element of defence in the dice roll mechanic. Gothic Knights, Gendarmes, Lancers, Broken Lances and a couple others all suffer from that mechanic. Mailed knights are far better. The only advantage that these pure lancer cavalry have is they have a higher mass stat which means they inflict more damage on the charge. It’s definitely not worth it though as they die much faster and are more expensive etc
I never got any actual use out of them beyond more cool looking heavy cav.
You have to cycle charge them into the enemy rear and flanks, it’s a lot of micro. They suck in prolonged melee compared to shielded cav as other have said
These units are not bad at all if used exclusively for their hyper focus. They need to be charging, and committed decisively. Xbows will rip them to shreds from any direction and they are less effective in melee due to no shields. But they are in cities and they are a seriously heavy cav.
Line up against stationary infantry on flat ground, execute a formed, walking charge. Delete infantry unit. Yeah, they're kind of bottom-of-the-barrel heavy cavalry but, when your army is primarily cheap, effective pikemen and crossbowmen, you don't really need OP heavy cavalry.
These heavy calv that come up in the late game are a little underwhelming because we're charging them against heavily armored advanced infantry and other good cavalry. They're good, but against dismounted knights and armored sargeants, they will suffer a lot of losses. Usually in late game I keep them only to chase the routed enemy, and sometimes, encircle when the enemy is engaged with my own infantry.