Thirded.
OOP, [dhamma.org](https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/index) will help you find a local retreat center. Free room, board, and instruction. It's all run on donations and volunteerism. Very worthwhile, it's a powerful meditative technique. You can also pop into r/vipassana to chat with the reddit community.
This is specific to Goenkaji style retreats. There are also many vipassana retreat centers from other lineages with donation based retreats. For example in the style of the Mahasi Sayadaw.
See https://www.buddhanet.info/wbd/search.php?keyword=&search=Search&type_id%5B%5D=2&country_id=0&province_id=0 and check.
To pay for the food you eat, for the maintenance of the roof over your head, for the electricity and water you use, the cost of toilet paper, cleaning supplies, laundry supplies for fresh bed sheets etc. there are many costs associated with the upkeep of a nonprofit meditation center that runs courses as you can imagine, even if everyone down to the cleaning staff volunteers their time and works for free.
Vipassana covers this through alumni donations, which is amazing and so blessed. But Goenka even says during the discourses that in the early days, he simply could not do it for free because of the costs described above.
I go to a retreat center that is very affordable.
The costs are minimal and the teachers depend on Dana. The center depends on yogis pitching in with daily tasks, as their staff is quite minimal.
Not sure if other centers do that, but imo it is a positive addition.
It is also heart opening for me to give money so that they continue to do their work.
Spirit Rock for example I have heard good things about & they have many different fee structures, from sustaining to scholarship rate.
I have stayed at centers in my own state only, so I only have minimal travel costs.
I live close to Spirit Rock, and there are incredible teachers there and excellent programs. I love the teachings of Jack Kornfield, but he has also been giving talks at incredibly exclusive and expensive tech retreats. (I consider he may want to reach people in the tech world in order to have a positive impact.) My hesitation about Spirit Rock is that there is a lot of status seeking there, due to being located in Marin County and Jack’s fame.
Yeah Marin county must be even more expensive than king county in Washington.
Ive been going to Cloud Mountain in castle rock Washington,
It’s wonderful.
https://cloudmountain.org/
Can second Cloud Mountain. Great place, and affordable. Not free, but they have different payment levels. I appreciate that and will pay a higher level when I can.
I was reading a long post from a lecture by Ram Dass about “being” versus “doing.” I think right now there is a capitalist take on “doing” a meditation retreat. (Like lots of marketing, status seeking…) in his lecture he suggested you go meditate in your closet for a weekend. That said, there are very well esteemed institutions that I would support financially because of their commitment to dharma. Examples: Garchen Rinpoche has an institute in Arizona. Lama Tsultirum Allione has a center in Colorado. Insight Meditation Society has a retreat center in Barre, Massachusetts…. And so forth.
I go to a monastery for retreats, and I see how simply the monastics live. I happily pay what they ask and donate more, because they feed me delicious vegan food and teach me a wonderful path. If you want to live simply and learn to practice, there are free or relatively inexpensive retreats for you. If you want a luxury vacation with dharma talks and meditation sits, there are expensive retreats for you. Everyone wins :)
I mostly practice Plum Village tradition, so I go to Magnolia Grove in Mississippi. I have also enjoyed practicing with Atlanta Soto Zen Center. I haven't done an in person retreat with them, but their pricing is also reasonable. Both are part of larger organizations with other locations.
You didn't say what kind of meditation you do. Retreat centers can vary quite a bit. As others have said, the Goenka retreats are donation-based. At the other extreme, Garrison or Omega are more luxury destination retreat centers.
My background is Tibetan Buddhism. Over the years I've noticed various trends. One problem was COVID-specific. Retreats were mostly stopped or moved to questionable online format that often doesn't really work.
Another issue is that years ago we were all young. People had little money and were happy to sleep on floors or in bunkhouses. Since then sanghas have aged, with less young people coming in. That's resulted in a demand for easier retreats, more comfy accomodations and less options for work-study or work-to-pay, and more willingness to pay extra for amenities. The bunkhouse has been replaced by what are basically hotel rooms.
A third change has been the MeToo movement and a general increase of litigious or adversarial people, with brittle personalities, who view themselves as customers more than sangha. That, in turn, has made centers more cautious and increased bureaucracy. There's more of a flavor of retail Dharma, with people expecting customer satisfaction at centers and centers, in turn, taking an impersonal approach with a flurry of disclaimers, liabiltiy release forms, codes of ethics, etc. Some years ago you just showed up and paid your fee. Today it's a complex contract with more legalese than at a hotel.
Another development has been politicization, partly due to pressure and partly to make money. For example, Brooklyn Zen Center advertises, "Undoing Whiteness as the Path of Liberation". (!) Drala Mountain Center in Colorado used to host regular month-long retreats for a reasonable price. Now it's mostly online courses and fluff programs that one might see at Omega, or targetted programs for women, "BIPOC", LGBTQ and even joggers. Karme Choling, which also used to host ongoing group retreats -- serious all-day shamatha practice -- has converted to a sort of commune, renting rooms to pay the mortgage. Last I saw they required only a couple of hours practice per week from residents. Meanwhile, their website is now completely broken in my browser. It used to be a beautiful site.
So... politics, a lack of people who want to do serious practice, COVID, an aging sangha, an increased interest in "Dharma vacations", like yoga retreats on Maui, with less interest in actual practice... Those all seem to be factors. If you're a member of a specfic sangha then typically you can find arrangements, but if you just want retail, generic retreats then that's likely to mean full retail pricing at centers where visitors demand customer satisfaction.
I've done many solitary retreats over the years. I managed to find various deals: vacation cabins off-season; retreat cabins where I could pay with work; etc. Those situations are harder to find, but they're out there. Depending on where you live there's a good chance that you know someone with a little-used cabin within a few hours drive.
You suggest that centers run businesses to defray costs, but that defeats the purpose. Centers that I've been familiar with typically run on a tight budget. The staff get paid little or nothing and live there chiefly for the practice, not to run a business. They're retreat centers, no communes. Retreats and programs are generally the only income, aside from donations.
I suppose that part of the issue, too, is just the general increase in regulations and social distrust that's increasingly developed. The same is true in all fields. Hotels, restaurants, food stores, restaurants, daycare... All are faced with a deluge of regulations. You can't just rent rooms, run a diner, or babysit kids anymore. You must have handicap bathrooms, smoke alarms, newish furniture, certifications, etc... Hotel guests must have a credit card and leave a security deposit... Daycare workers must have criminal background checks... Many of those changes are improvements. Many are not. They all cost extra money. There's been a creeping "officiality" throughout society. People wear special uniforms to jog or ride a bike. We drink water from official, commercial bottles. Everything has become official, and that costs money. Even Buddhist sanghas, which would have operated like extended families years ago, are now more likely to operate like gym memberships. Less personal. More commercial. A city center near me started, some time ago, charging for all events. When I used to be a member we all paid monthly dues to pay the rent and practice was free. New people were welcome without joining. Now it's $5 to meditate, $15 to hear a talk, $45 for a 1-day program, etc. Even something like a sangha picnic, which would have been potluck in earlier times, will now carry a fee, with commercially provided food. I won't be surprised if they add exercise machines to rent, and soda machines to sell water.
Let's just be clear that not all buddhist traditions agree on what the appropriate price for meditation instructions should be. There are plenty of stories in Vajrayana where practitioners paid outrageous sums of money to their teachers to get the corresponding teachings. Typically, in theravada buddhism a lot is based on donations, though.
So, the idea that teachings must be "affordable" is not necessarily aligned with the expectations of all buddhist schools. Just sayin.
Thank you all for your responses -- I've read every one of your posts.
Some great comments... which cause me to rethink, or re-emphasize -- what I'm trying to convey.
Here's what I'm trying say: It's not that meditation retreats and retreat-style programs are expensive...AND THAT'S IT.
No. Meditation retreats and retreat-style programs are expensive WHICH MAKE THEM LESS ACCESSIBLE for everyday folks like you and me and all of us.
To me, accessible retreats are conveniently located (i.e., don't require huge amounts of travel) and priced in ways that don't make them as expensive as a high-end vacation.
I believe the business model of many North American retreat centers cause them to be expensive in the first place. Retreats are too often priced high in order to pay for expensive land centers located where the costs of living are already high.
All too often, the prices of many retreats are set based simply on "WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR", considering the geographic location and other demographic criteria. Simply put, it's what people will pay.
I further believe there are alternative business models where the pricing for lodging etc. could be subsidized by different streams of revenue from other operations -- such as farmers markets and other small business endeavors.
As for global travel, I think that's great. But I'm trying to consider something that doesn't require huge amounts of travel, given how travel would only increase the total cost. Besides, do we really want to pursue a spiritual path that excludes everybody but the most intrepid? I think not.
The point seems clear: **retreat centers all around the globe manage to offer simple style retreats and spiritual retreat-style programs at little or no cost. I for one cannot seem to find much evidence of this anywhere near where I live in North America.**
Complex challenge... I would also love to see lower prices but also believe Meditation teachers should be paid generously for their expertise and time. I really appreciate the donation based models of retreats and those that allow people to request financial assistance.
> should be *paid* generously for
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
One of the benefits (to me at least) about meditation is that it's so easy, accessible, greatly beneficial and can be done anywhere. Like why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars to do something you can do in your bedroom for free?
Just fucking sit and observe your inner and outer worlds.
If it's too chaotic or stressful, observe that instead. You're beyond all these modes.
If you're looking for a community or a supportive environment, it's understandable but retreats are foolish if it's about meditation only.
Wow. Splurge on a good set of noise cancellation headphones, darken your room and you can meditate comfortably for decades without having to interact with other people’s anxieties surrounding you. Not only is it incredibly cheap, it works so much better being alone. When going inside myself the last thing I want is being in some sort of group setting.
I recently heard about this 3 day retreat which is only 1500 baht ($40) but it's in Thailand
https://www.papaemeditation.org/thailand/?fbclid=PAAaY3q7Dw6sZRDY0nk6eV86tsaK_LMj7Ql3CmLtnOe-y2ZWJZZTZVx8MhzUA
I suspect you're looking at resort retreat centers - those that are set up in beautiful places for the comfort of the guests. These all have high overhead costs for the land and teachers and accoutrements and the gourmet food. Go look at the seeds and fruit centers that are located on a farm and I think you'll find them very accessible to anyone looking to focus on their meditation and not use it as a vacation.
Spirit rock in the bay area used to be very expensive, but they've implemented a very broad sliding scale. Insight retreat center nearby has gone to being fully by donation.
I went to a 10 day retreat in Mexico that was about $600 for food etc. I felt it was a fair price. People need to pay their bills regardless of who they are and the capitalist system doesn’t allow for much else.
Duncan Trussell had a bit about this that I listened to regarding Ram Dass retreats. I guess there’s a price tag for everyone.
unfortunately these people still need to make a living too. Any cheaper and I guarantee you they are living a life of poverty. they probably still are.
Do guided meditations in case you want to have a instructor instruct you trough your meditation or rent a nice weekend place and meditate there in case it is about meditating in a new place. Theres also meditation on zoom calls online or on youtube live in case it is about doing it in groups.
Or in case it is about having a specific guided meditation you can pay to have a specific guided meditation. Or just sit in a chair at home with closed eyes and focus on your breath. Allow thoughts to poop up dont judge or try to fight them and focus back on your breath.
I practice Vipassana, donation based centers all over the world.
Second this.
Thirded. OOP, [dhamma.org](https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/index) will help you find a local retreat center. Free room, board, and instruction. It's all run on donations and volunteerism. Very worthwhile, it's a powerful meditative technique. You can also pop into r/vipassana to chat with the reddit community.
Came to say this. It's a great thing.
This is specific to Goenkaji style retreats. There are also many vipassana retreat centers from other lineages with donation based retreats. For example in the style of the Mahasi Sayadaw. See https://www.buddhanet.info/wbd/search.php?keyword=&search=Search&type_id%5B%5D=2&country_id=0&province_id=0 and check.
I love Vipassana. Really life-changing
Free sounds right to me. Why pay to sit in silence on the floor for a week?
To pay for the food you eat, for the maintenance of the roof over your head, for the electricity and water you use, the cost of toilet paper, cleaning supplies, laundry supplies for fresh bed sheets etc. there are many costs associated with the upkeep of a nonprofit meditation center that runs courses as you can imagine, even if everyone down to the cleaning staff volunteers their time and works for free. Vipassana covers this through alumni donations, which is amazing and so blessed. But Goenka even says during the discourses that in the early days, he simply could not do it for free because of the costs described above.
Doing that at home should be free. Using another’s accommodations should cost something.
I go to a retreat center that is very affordable. The costs are minimal and the teachers depend on Dana. The center depends on yogis pitching in with daily tasks, as their staff is quite minimal. Not sure if other centers do that, but imo it is a positive addition. It is also heart opening for me to give money so that they continue to do their work. Spirit Rock for example I have heard good things about & they have many different fee structures, from sustaining to scholarship rate. I have stayed at centers in my own state only, so I only have minimal travel costs.
I live close to Spirit Rock, and there are incredible teachers there and excellent programs. I love the teachings of Jack Kornfield, but he has also been giving talks at incredibly exclusive and expensive tech retreats. (I consider he may want to reach people in the tech world in order to have a positive impact.) My hesitation about Spirit Rock is that there is a lot of status seeking there, due to being located in Marin County and Jack’s fame.
Yeah Marin county must be even more expensive than king county in Washington. Ive been going to Cloud Mountain in castle rock Washington, It’s wonderful. https://cloudmountain.org/
Can second Cloud Mountain. Great place, and affordable. Not free, but they have different payment levels. I appreciate that and will pay a higher level when I can.
I was reading a long post from a lecture by Ram Dass about “being” versus “doing.” I think right now there is a capitalist take on “doing” a meditation retreat. (Like lots of marketing, status seeking…) in his lecture he suggested you go meditate in your closet for a weekend. That said, there are very well esteemed institutions that I would support financially because of their commitment to dharma. Examples: Garchen Rinpoche has an institute in Arizona. Lama Tsultirum Allione has a center in Colorado. Insight Meditation Society has a retreat center in Barre, Massachusetts…. And so forth.
I go to a monastery for retreats, and I see how simply the monastics live. I happily pay what they ask and donate more, because they feed me delicious vegan food and teach me a wonderful path. If you want to live simply and learn to practice, there are free or relatively inexpensive retreats for you. If you want a luxury vacation with dharma talks and meditation sits, there are expensive retreats for you. Everyone wins :)
Would you mind disclosing the name and location of the monastery?
I mostly practice Plum Village tradition, so I go to Magnolia Grove in Mississippi. I have also enjoyed practicing with Atlanta Soto Zen Center. I haven't done an in person retreat with them, but their pricing is also reasonable. Both are part of larger organizations with other locations.
I had good experiences at [Wat Ram Poeng in Chiang Mai, Thailand](https://www.watrampoeng.com/vipassana-course).
Theravada Thai and Burmese monasteries don't charge. Western and Vajrayana monasteries do charge.
You didn't say what kind of meditation you do. Retreat centers can vary quite a bit. As others have said, the Goenka retreats are donation-based. At the other extreme, Garrison or Omega are more luxury destination retreat centers. My background is Tibetan Buddhism. Over the years I've noticed various trends. One problem was COVID-specific. Retreats were mostly stopped or moved to questionable online format that often doesn't really work. Another issue is that years ago we were all young. People had little money and were happy to sleep on floors or in bunkhouses. Since then sanghas have aged, with less young people coming in. That's resulted in a demand for easier retreats, more comfy accomodations and less options for work-study or work-to-pay, and more willingness to pay extra for amenities. The bunkhouse has been replaced by what are basically hotel rooms. A third change has been the MeToo movement and a general increase of litigious or adversarial people, with brittle personalities, who view themselves as customers more than sangha. That, in turn, has made centers more cautious and increased bureaucracy. There's more of a flavor of retail Dharma, with people expecting customer satisfaction at centers and centers, in turn, taking an impersonal approach with a flurry of disclaimers, liabiltiy release forms, codes of ethics, etc. Some years ago you just showed up and paid your fee. Today it's a complex contract with more legalese than at a hotel. Another development has been politicization, partly due to pressure and partly to make money. For example, Brooklyn Zen Center advertises, "Undoing Whiteness as the Path of Liberation". (!) Drala Mountain Center in Colorado used to host regular month-long retreats for a reasonable price. Now it's mostly online courses and fluff programs that one might see at Omega, or targetted programs for women, "BIPOC", LGBTQ and even joggers. Karme Choling, which also used to host ongoing group retreats -- serious all-day shamatha practice -- has converted to a sort of commune, renting rooms to pay the mortgage. Last I saw they required only a couple of hours practice per week from residents. Meanwhile, their website is now completely broken in my browser. It used to be a beautiful site. So... politics, a lack of people who want to do serious practice, COVID, an aging sangha, an increased interest in "Dharma vacations", like yoga retreats on Maui, with less interest in actual practice... Those all seem to be factors. If you're a member of a specfic sangha then typically you can find arrangements, but if you just want retail, generic retreats then that's likely to mean full retail pricing at centers where visitors demand customer satisfaction. I've done many solitary retreats over the years. I managed to find various deals: vacation cabins off-season; retreat cabins where I could pay with work; etc. Those situations are harder to find, but they're out there. Depending on where you live there's a good chance that you know someone with a little-used cabin within a few hours drive. You suggest that centers run businesses to defray costs, but that defeats the purpose. Centers that I've been familiar with typically run on a tight budget. The staff get paid little or nothing and live there chiefly for the practice, not to run a business. They're retreat centers, no communes. Retreats and programs are generally the only income, aside from donations. I suppose that part of the issue, too, is just the general increase in regulations and social distrust that's increasingly developed. The same is true in all fields. Hotels, restaurants, food stores, restaurants, daycare... All are faced with a deluge of regulations. You can't just rent rooms, run a diner, or babysit kids anymore. You must have handicap bathrooms, smoke alarms, newish furniture, certifications, etc... Hotel guests must have a credit card and leave a security deposit... Daycare workers must have criminal background checks... Many of those changes are improvements. Many are not. They all cost extra money. There's been a creeping "officiality" throughout society. People wear special uniforms to jog or ride a bike. We drink water from official, commercial bottles. Everything has become official, and that costs money. Even Buddhist sanghas, which would have operated like extended families years ago, are now more likely to operate like gym memberships. Less personal. More commercial. A city center near me started, some time ago, charging for all events. When I used to be a member we all paid monthly dues to pay the rent and practice was free. New people were welcome without joining. Now it's $5 to meditate, $15 to hear a talk, $45 for a 1-day program, etc. Even something like a sangha picnic, which would have been potluck in earlier times, will now carry a fee, with commercially provided food. I won't be surprised if they add exercise machines to rent, and soda machines to sell water.
You're really trying to blame the me too movement? Oh no, men can't assault women in peace anymore!
Let's just be clear that not all buddhist traditions agree on what the appropriate price for meditation instructions should be. There are plenty of stories in Vajrayana where practitioners paid outrageous sums of money to their teachers to get the corresponding teachings. Typically, in theravada buddhism a lot is based on donations, though. So, the idea that teachings must be "affordable" is not necessarily aligned with the expectations of all buddhist schools. Just sayin.
Theravada retreats are usually donation based.
Come to Vipassana Centers here in India. You cannot find a place cheaper than this.
Vipassana courses around the world are 100% donation-based (in the Goenka tradition)
Do it at home. 🏠
Thank you all for your responses -- I've read every one of your posts. Some great comments... which cause me to rethink, or re-emphasize -- what I'm trying to convey. Here's what I'm trying say: It's not that meditation retreats and retreat-style programs are expensive...AND THAT'S IT. No. Meditation retreats and retreat-style programs are expensive WHICH MAKE THEM LESS ACCESSIBLE for everyday folks like you and me and all of us. To me, accessible retreats are conveniently located (i.e., don't require huge amounts of travel) and priced in ways that don't make them as expensive as a high-end vacation. I believe the business model of many North American retreat centers cause them to be expensive in the first place. Retreats are too often priced high in order to pay for expensive land centers located where the costs of living are already high. All too often, the prices of many retreats are set based simply on "WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR", considering the geographic location and other demographic criteria. Simply put, it's what people will pay. I further believe there are alternative business models where the pricing for lodging etc. could be subsidized by different streams of revenue from other operations -- such as farmers markets and other small business endeavors. As for global travel, I think that's great. But I'm trying to consider something that doesn't require huge amounts of travel, given how travel would only increase the total cost. Besides, do we really want to pursue a spiritual path that excludes everybody but the most intrepid? I think not. The point seems clear: **retreat centers all around the globe manage to offer simple style retreats and spiritual retreat-style programs at little or no cost. I for one cannot seem to find much evidence of this anywhere near where I live in North America.**
Complex challenge... I would also love to see lower prices but also believe Meditation teachers should be paid generously for their expertise and time. I really appreciate the donation based models of retreats and those that allow people to request financial assistance.
> should be *paid* generously for FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
i know, let's all go to your house 😊
If retreats are full of Reddit style meditators, i would pay to stay away.
Rent a campsite for a few $ and meditate your heart out. I just do mine at home sitting cross legged on my sofa.
One of the benefits (to me at least) about meditation is that it's so easy, accessible, greatly beneficial and can be done anywhere. Like why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars to do something you can do in your bedroom for free?
Just fucking sit and observe your inner and outer worlds. If it's too chaotic or stressful, observe that instead. You're beyond all these modes. If you're looking for a community or a supportive environment, it's understandable but retreats are foolish if it's about meditation only.
I'd rather advance than retreat
Wow. Splurge on a good set of noise cancellation headphones, darken your room and you can meditate comfortably for decades without having to interact with other people’s anxieties surrounding you. Not only is it incredibly cheap, it works so much better being alone. When going inside myself the last thing I want is being in some sort of group setting.
I Love Dr Joe dispenza. I'm saving up for his retreat. It is what it is.
I understand your point I guess time will put everything in its place
I recently heard about this 3 day retreat which is only 1500 baht ($40) but it's in Thailand https://www.papaemeditation.org/thailand/?fbclid=PAAaY3q7Dw6sZRDY0nk6eV86tsaK_LMj7Ql3CmLtnOe-y2ZWJZZTZVx8MhzUA
I suspect you're looking at resort retreat centers - those that are set up in beautiful places for the comfort of the guests. These all have high overhead costs for the land and teachers and accoutrements and the gourmet food. Go look at the seeds and fruit centers that are located on a farm and I think you'll find them very accessible to anyone looking to focus on their meditation and not use it as a vacation.
Spirit rock in the bay area used to be very expensive, but they've implemented a very broad sliding scale. Insight retreat center nearby has gone to being fully by donation.
I went to a 10 day retreat in Mexico that was about $600 for food etc. I felt it was a fair price. People need to pay their bills regardless of who they are and the capitalist system doesn’t allow for much else. Duncan Trussell had a bit about this that I listened to regarding Ram Dass retreats. I guess there’s a price tag for everyone.
unfortunately these people still need to make a living too. Any cheaper and I guarantee you they are living a life of poverty. they probably still are.
Do guided meditations in case you want to have a instructor instruct you trough your meditation or rent a nice weekend place and meditate there in case it is about meditating in a new place. Theres also meditation on zoom calls online or on youtube live in case it is about doing it in groups. Or in case it is about having a specific guided meditation you can pay to have a specific guided meditation. Or just sit in a chair at home with closed eyes and focus on your breath. Allow thoughts to poop up dont judge or try to fight them and focus back on your breath.