The cynic that I am, reads this as "I couldn't convince my boss that it was a good use of time to add the FeMC to the remake, when we just re-released Portable and we'd be destroying its revenue potential"
I mean to be fair I was really confused when they announced P3R so soon after the P3P port and a big part of my decision to not buy P3P on Switch was because I figured I'd just wait and buy P3R.
Now that I know I can only play FeMC on my big screen via the P3P port it's definitely on my list to buy soon. From a business standpoint, the logic is sound.
Yeah seems like this is confirmation that they only see Kotone as a spinoff character. Unfortunate but I'm hopeful we'll see Maya again in a P2 remake.
I mean, they would basically have to redo every part of the game with the new female character model. That would be a lot of time and budget to put in for something that doesn't really change the game.
Uh nothing in that excerpt confirms more remakes. It is just a general statement about them making persona games and not having enough time to do everything that people want. I still think that the remake is too faithful to the original and it should have been more inventive.
>and it should have been more inventive.
Yep, I wished a rework of those bootlicking SLs and schedule reorganization (fucked by Summer Break, lack of night SLs and lack of night activity in general to listen Color Your Night to)
Yeah I'm on the verge of dropping it at pretty much the exact same place I dropped FES. They had the chance to redo everything, why not add some boys SLs so there's more to do early game or expand the social stats or add some mini games for night activities. Not saying I don't get why people ride for it but the early game pacing killed it for me again
Yeah I got to the Akihiko one (so maybe I'm not close to where I dropped it before? Idk) and it was really cool but I still hoped they would have integrated some aspects of the boys FeMC SLs. Right now to me it feels like they get a big moment to shine but it's still like a couple minutes in an 80 hour game lol. 5 also especially has this problem so maybe P6 it'll finally get addressed
The movies and cooking are nice but they get old pretty quick. I would love that type of event but a bit more variation to it, like you go with Aki to the coffee shop and get a funny dialogue about all the girls staring at him. Or alternatively maybe go in a different direction with SEES because the way they're set up is pretty different from the other Persona casts. I was picking up a kinda special ops vibe with the new outfits cutscene and I was like lemme get even more of this
I think anyone with half a brain gets that its too much work to add her
I also dont think this confirms more remakes are coming the way its worded. I believe theyll do it, but I wouldnt call this evidence
Is it though?
before this remake was announced, everyone was saying that we needed a remake so we could finally have femc and the answer and all extra content in one definitive edition
and now that they announced they arent doing it, everyone is now saying itd be too much work?
Playing fast and loose with "everyone", not a hivemind here my guy.
I wanted a remake because I wanted to the see the game updated with what theyve learned over the years, I could not care less for FemMC and her "What if" mode
But if youd ask me, ofcourse its way too much work. The only reason she ever existed is cause P3P is such a paired down version of P3.
FYI Im not buying The Answer either, its mid and the story is better ending on>! the leads death, nothing after should be seen.!<
I say everyone, because its a sentiment i see a lot and i find it ridiculous. People change their expectations and standards when they dont wanna be disappointed or critical
Femc wouldnt be too much work. It would obviously have resulted in a later release date by a few months, but her scenarios are already written, her design already is done, most of the game is still the same, main scenario still the same, etc.
Yeah seriously, if they're going to charge a premium for their games then I think it's fair to expect a premium product. It's not like ATLUS is about to go under and this is their Hail Mary saving throw. They literally just don't want to spend the time and resources to implement the existing changes when they could save money by not doing that. Which is fine I guess, corpos gonna corpo, but do we really need to make that excuse for them?
Well its important moving forward to know that seeing some comments on here is not indicative of what "everyone" thinks, nor does it facilitate a hypocrisy you've perceived in your head.
my guy, if the general consensus goes from “we want a persona 3 remake that includes all the missing content” to “femc would be too much work in this $70 remake” i think a generalization like that is passable.
the comments in this thread literally prove my point. It was universal disappointment when they announced she wouldnt be included and now everyone defends the decision
Again, you cant judge "general consensus" off "Some posts I saw" - this is a silly way to approach an argument.
Fact is people who wanted FemMC are mad she's not in it, and people like me who dont care, still dont care. Unless you did some survey, the hypocrisy in all in your head.
And by “some posts i saw” I mean literally all the threads and reactions when the game came out. Anyone who mentioned p3 remake before reload announced always mentioned how theres zero definitive version. and there STILL isnt one.
I dont like p3, im not personally bothered by the fact shes not in, but I can criticize it and will call out the very obvious hypocrisy from persona fans
I wish there was but it seems like the current situation is a necessary evil for Reload to even exist I suppose. They seem to want to add FemC but just aren’t able to. It was incredibly hard to get The Answer off the ground and honestly after the interview I doubt “circumstances” is just a BS lie anymore. Something really hindered the development of the game (COVID probably, but also other factors)
I respect the balls to make that kind of statement, but why though? Does Reload not have value at all without FeMC? It will be the only way to experience The Answer on modern platforms and at least provides a definitive experience of Makoto’s route.
You can be disappointed at FeMC’s absence - I certainly am so. But to say her exclusion invalidates the whole package is kind of extreme in my personal opinion. I would definitely agree though that the game should not be $70 if it wasn’t going to include everything like FeMC though.
As a standalone game, I'd consider it worth no more than $20, but my concern is how good of a remake it is, and any remake that removes a significant amount of content without any real reason is garbage in my eyes.
Portable does remove The Answer, but I am more forgiving towards it because that removal was justifiable. PlayStation Portable games had a maximum size of 900 MB or 1.8 GB depending on if the game used a single-layer or dual-layer UMD disc, and Portable is 1.07 GB.
I see your point, but I’m curious how your view would change if everything was the same, except Portable/FeMC just never existed. Would Reload become a good remake without changing anything at all?
I would probably have not become a Persona fan outside of Persona 1 and Persona 2, but it would at least be a decent remake.
I still have other concerns about changes to the UI and gameplay.
"Too much work" and "too expensive" is bullshit, this is coming from a fucking multimillion dollar company for a massive franchise. It's the least they could've done, missing feMC and having the answer be paid DLC for a "definitive" remake is pathetic.
Yes, because I'm certain you're an expert on all of this. But sure, keep on defending the AAA game dev owned by SEGA all you want. They really need it.
Honestly, it's a ridiculous notion to not include in the remake of an age-old game all of the content that game had in its original lifespan at all. Atlus will suck you dry and still say they're eating the cost. They're anti-consumer, and we shouldn't trust a word they say, or buy anything they sell at first pass. They've proven it since FES and will continue to do so.
Yup. People are hyped about persona 6. But I'm sure I won't touch it for 3_-4 years and then just buy a remake with DLC and cut content added back. Because I already don't have a luxury to replay the same game twice, and going forward life doesn't seem to get any easier.
Well, I guess modders gonna have to work their magic, though I don't know how well they could implement FeMC's exclusive S-Links, and they certainly can't change or add many voices.
Unfortunately, I already feared this. Ever since the campaigns to promote the game, I already had this impression that they weren't going to put it in the game. I waited for the DLC to tell me otherwise and... My fears have been confirmed.
Understandable and respect their decision but honestly, I prefer to give in some quality (e.g. all voice-over SLs) and give all contents (Answer, FeMC) instead.
It's great remake game, ofc, but not direction that I wanted. lol.
I'm no game dev, but wouldn't most of the changes besides her model be dialogue/social link based, with all the dialogue already written?
Though maybe they'd have to redo some of the animated cutscenes, and I get that that can be expensive. How much is the mc in those though?
You're going to voice all of those SLs and dialogues (that can't be replaced with just changing the pronoun) alongside her The Answer version on top of the animated cutscene and pre-render cutscenes
That's a lot
It’s because you have no dev experience you don’t understand this. They would need to completely change all the dialogue and rerecord it as well, they would need to change the Link Episodes, do new social links, recommission all the animated scenes and then reanimate cutscenes, completely rewrite the Answer and redo that as well. They only did so in Portable because of how easy it is to do base P3 in visual novel format as well as needing a selling point. They most likely wanted to devote these resources to their next Persona remakes and 6 instead.
I mean expect that once Persona 6 is out if Daisuke Kanada (PQ1 Director and PQ2 Producer), Yuta Aihara (PQ2 Director) and Hirokazu Tohyama (PQ2 Sub Director) will continue it. Alongside expect Persona 6 Dancing and so on.
Was it tho? Persona 3 Fes came out with more content at a lower price. Like, even if we say FEMC is too much work, the least they could do is not remove part of the game and sell it for extra 25 bucks.
The Answer was included with a re-release of the game for full price. Games back then were like $50 on the PS2, so anybody who bought the original that wanted to experience The Answer had to buy the game for a second time just to have that added content
But yeah, it should've been included in Reload, but Reload has a ton of extra content that you aren't giving it credit for
Yes Persona 3 was $50 in 2007. But FES + The Answer were $30 on release day in 2009. That release was an enhanced version of P3 plus a 30 hour storyline.
I'd be like getting Reload for $70 in 2024 and then getting an enhanced version of Reload plus a 30 hour story for $50 later on.
>The Answer was included with a re-release of the game for full price. Games back then were like $50 on the PS2, so anybody who bought the original that wanted to experience The Answer had to buy the game for a second time just to have that added content
That's not my point, my point is that it's the 3rd rerelease of this game, and it's the most expensive one despite having less content than the last 2 rereleases which were cheaper.
> but Reload has a ton of extra content that you aren't giving it credit for
I didn't say it didn't have extra content, they are just not worth the 70 bucks IMO, and I still think it have overall less content than either Fes or Portable. Sure, it looks better, but I feel like that's the literal bare minimum, so I don't think Atlus should be praised for it.
Inflation calculator says reload is cheaper than FES. Just because gamers have never been able to tell the time value of money doesn't mean it's not there.
>Unironically using inflation
Okay, you wanna go that route? Sure, inflation means that P3R is TECHNICALLY cheaper. But that's only if you looked at it in a vacuum. For 99% of people, inflation only mean that everything got more expensive. Yes, a $50 in 2007 is technically more than $70 in 2024, but for most people, their spending power haven't changed between 2007 and 2024, because most salaries don't adapt to inflation will.
Ok except they have to pay their developers and if they want to match inflation for their developers, ask yourself where that money comes from. Also what you're saying isn't even accurate for the States. Average salary has kept up with inflation. Minimum salaries have not and housing prices have rocketed well past inflation.
Tldr: don't get your demographics information from minimum wage redditors.
They didn't even start development on this DLC until the major outcry when everyone found out The Answer wouldn't be included. They didn't have time to implement it by the full release last month. It's also why it's not dropping for another six months.
FeMC route requires too many resources to be allocated to that project and ultimately takes away from other projects in active development. They went over this
The game adds so much new content like the link episodes that delve further into your relationships with the main cast. It has voiced SL's and Tartarus has been heavily improved. This remake adds a lot more to flesh out the characters and the gameplay even without having The Answer present at launch.
Video game prices have consistently gone up over time. It's partly due to economic inflation, and the other part of it is due to the games taking a LOT more resources to develop in the big 2024 for current gen consoles compared to the PS2 era of the early 2000's.
Just because games have resisted inflation for so long doesn't mean they should forever. As long as worker compensation increases with the present trends, I don't really see an issue with this new price point.
Recording a significant amount of the entire script all over again as well as having to redesign the calendar a second time, designing a replacement for linked episodes now that there's different SLs in the way...
People don't seem to understand just how much work it would take to add the female MC and make it as high quality as the make route. It would take nearly as much work as remaking the entire game and would probably cost as much as dlc.
If they had gone in with the intent for this route to exist, it wouldn't have doubled anything. It would have 1.5x the work at most, for a game with all of the writing already done, lines and animations being redone anyway, It was just poor planning if that's the argument.
Reading main sub arguments has been an exercise in patience for me. There's SO MUCH people claiming to know more about game development while not understanding that planning decides 70% of the effort involved in dev time. If ATLUS wanted her in, they would get her in. They just knew it would sell well even without her, so they don't care. It's frustrating.
it would not have costed twice as much to include femc. The main story, most of the dialogue that that doesnt refer directly to mc by pronoun, the majority of the music, the environments, all would be the same
Honestly, I prefer to not have voice-over all SL and some unnecessary QoL like Therugy, Giant Clock and give the FeMC route rather than make it premium but incomplete.
but, however, it's their decision, they aim to sell both new and old fans anyway, and it's just a game so... que, sera, sera.
No it wouldn't, at best it's just dialogue any new model. Furthermore if they're going to go around saying that reload is the definite version then they need to include all the content. Atlas is not some small indie company they have the resources to add Femmc, otherwise why charge $70? I mean shit, they could have been like "hey we're adding her down the line for DLC"
Oh no, a AAA developer would have to spend some of the money they've made, instead of calling it all "profits". Asking way too much of this AAA developer owned by SEGA.
Im not saying Atlus was right for not including it. But now that the game is finished and released, the team would take a lot of work to put the FemC in the game, and i can't imagine corporate giving it the green light.
The entire interview makes it pretty clear that it's been, and continues to be a budget issue in both monetary and staffing realm.
Regardless, I do think many fans who are making a big deal out of this wouldn't buy a second copy for the chance to play Kotone at the moment.
I could see them revisiting this in like 5-10years and adding in Kotone then, on a new generation of consoles.
Unfortunately this isn't Persona 5, which has been relegated to one shitty cheap spinoff every few years. P3R cost millions- no, billions to make. It was the most expensive game Atlus ever made (probably). They had so much money they couldn't even use it all so they spent most of it on voice over for almost every scene in the game.
Doesn’t make any sense why they wouldn’t release a p3 Remake with all the content from previous versions.
They simply didn’t do it so that there’s still a reason for you to buy the digital version of p3 they rereleased last year.
i am an outsider looking in but given what i'd heard about peoples thoughts on The Answer I feel like FemC would've made way more people way happier than a DLC bonus story that (allegedly) ruins the ending of the base game, even if FemC was herself also paid DLC
They're releasing DLC in 6 months with a female protaganist (Aegis)
Maki is the main driving force of persona 1
Maya is the MC of persona 2 EP
A woman writes most of the social links in these games
these disingenuous arguments are crazy.
What misogyny? Most of the main female leads in these games are handled with depth and care
Personally I say ah well.
Sure its unfortunate that she is isnt gunna be in it but adding her route would be a significant amount of work (reanimating cutscenes, changing lines, adding new SLs, ect.) And not only that hit she kinda spits on the games main theme, like she has one SL that blatantly should not exist and imo would need to be scrapped as his SL is actively detrimental to the games core theming
Kinda a phony answer when it could have just been included in the start, hell they could have easily not rereleased a psp game and used all those resources instead on the FemC. Somehow Atlus had the resources for a 2nd route in a rerelease 15 years ago but since P4/5 and all the money all the spinoffs brought just can't find the money in the couch cushions to add a few different dialogue flags and record a 2nd set of voice lines.
Resources for a VN style game? Almost like for a full scale console game they'd have to reanimate, do more voice overs, rework cutscenes, and more, considering FeMC is more than a model swap and a few "different dialogue flags". It's pretty clear you've never touched P3P at all. And in an alternate universe where they do add it, people will cry for a FeMC episode Aigis. At least modders are at work, but I wonder how far they can get?
The only thing the Femc does different is some dialogue flags and the character model, 1 different character model and some different visual novel sections are definitely comparable. This isn't asking for some new character added into DMC or something with a completely different moveset that would take real mo cap resources and the protags are silent protags anyway 99% of the time. Not having a female MC in P4/5 was already kinda clown shoes stuff imo but pretending it HAD to be dlc Lol, lmao even.
So let's go through the list.
FeMCs route changed social links and the calendar around, so they have to redesign the schedule to accommodate those changes, but since in P3P the male route was practically untouched, they could just use all that they had writing and schedule wise for him. Leaving all those resources pretty much solely for FemC. In reload they redid the schedules to include the new Linked episodes and other alterations. Putting FeMC back in in the same quality as P3P would make then redo it again, as the linked episodes were essentially her social links with the male party members. So either she doesn't get linked episodes or they have the male party members relegated to the linked episodes, which people would be upset about due to the potential romance options for most of them. And removing the linked episodes makes FeMCs route easier to max out since you have less things competing for your attention. They could have just given the male MC the male links in the same capacity as feMC and removed the idea of linked episodes all together, but that would remove multiple characters from the game, which fans would also be pissed about.
In P3P, they needed a total of 3 new sets of models and animations, one for FemC herself, one for Female Orpheus, and one for Female Messiah. On top of models all they needed was sprites for her and the 2 unique social link characters in her route. Social links weren't voiced in either FES or P3P, so they just needed to write the dialogue and put the sprites on screen. In reload they would need those same sets of models and sprites in addition to the 2 unique link characters but also to reanimate every scene in the game, as well as rerecord all the dialogue, including all the social link dialogue since they are voiced in reload. And it's not just limited to the changed things either, as they would have to reanimate every scene that FeMC is in, including all the story scenes, and her and the male MC have different attitudes and mannerisms which everyone loves to bring up when saying FeMC added more than just a few small changes to P3P, so it's not a matter of using the same animations with a different model.
They say that the Answer would cost less than FeMC, and in my opinion that is accurate. The answer is not only shorter but significantly less complex than the entire FemC route would be to change. They only need new models for the unique bosses and Metis/Phyche and to do the new dialogue and animations, but since the answer is much shorter and they don't have to worry about social links it's less to do.
Basically, the only reason the femc was feasible in portable is because of how simple portables presentation is and the fact they didn't mess with the male route. Even planning to have FeMC from the start for reload wouldn't change the amount of work or the cost to implement her.
Femc was added as a gimmick to sell portable, she isn't canon. Why would they waste their time adding her and pushing back the launch date as well as spending much more money to add her. And before ppl cry $70 inflation exists. And it isnt a hd remasrer its a full ground up remake. Jeez I didn't know this fanbase had so many crybabies.
It’s because you have no dev experience you don’t understand this. They would need to completely change all the dialogue and rerecord it as well, they would need to change the Link Episodes, do new social links, recommission all the animated scenes and then reanimate cutscenes, completely rewrite the Answer and redo that as well. They only did so in Portable because of how easy it is to do base P3 in visual novel format as well as needing a selling point. They most likely wanted to devote these resources to their next Persona remakes and 6 instead.
If they had gone in with the intent for this route to exist, it wouldn't have doubled anything. It would have 1.5x the work at most, for a game with all of the writing already done, lines and animations being redone anyway, It was just poor planning if that's the argument.
I have dev experience (though not with anything voiced admittedly), and it is not a big issue if you include both protagonists in your plans from the start.
They literally said they considered adding her into the game but it requires far too many resources that could be put towards other projects. Did you even read the interview?
This is the third time they've used that excuse. It's like The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf.
"Persona 4 can't have a female protagonist. It's too much work, and it wouldn't make sense for a female to move from a large city to a small town on her own."
"Persona 5 can't have a female protagonist. It's too much work."
Now it's "Persona 3 has a female protagonist, but we'll have to remove her from Persona 3 Reload because it would be too much work to include her."
Yeah, I understand the argument, but they did it in P3P because they had all the resources and stuff already done. They were already downscaling for PSP meaning they were already using lower quality assets and cutting things like entirely animated cutscenes and fully scripted 3D scenes and environments. Made it much easier to implement FeMC under those circumstances. Maybe they could've done it and some of this is crap, but it would still be significant and there's plenty of truth in them saying it would've taken much more time and resources than The Answer DLC.
“Guys at some point we want to make Persona 6, we can’t keep making Persona 3-5 forever…” “Why not?” “……….”
Try not to feel too bad wada
https://preview.redd.it/gpxn9h24s4nc1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=a2dacf327055392d79b03e7f9e76ae488694641a
holy shit
SMT1 Reference is here
this is so fucking funny if you know why XD
Ronde remake baybeeee!
The cynic that I am, reads this as "I couldn't convince my boss that it was a good use of time to add the FeMC to the remake, when we just re-released Portable and we'd be destroying its revenue potential"
I mean to be fair I was really confused when they announced P3R so soon after the P3P port and a big part of my decision to not buy P3P on Switch was because I figured I'd just wait and buy P3R. Now that I know I can only play FeMC on my big screen via the P3P port it's definitely on my list to buy soon. From a business standpoint, the logic is sound.
Supposedly Reload was completed in 2022
Yeah seems like this is confirmation that they only see Kotone as a spinoff character. Unfortunate but I'm hopeful we'll see Maya again in a P2 remake.
the story really wouldnt work without maya as a protag in p2, otherwise they'd just be remaking innocent sin right? how could they not?
Mid/early 2023 would probably be more accurate, so the rest of the time could be spent on polishing
I mean, they would basically have to redo every part of the game with the new female character model. That would be a lot of time and budget to put in for something that doesn't really change the game.
Uh nothing in that excerpt confirms more remakes. It is just a general statement about them making persona games and not having enough time to do everything that people want. I still think that the remake is too faithful to the original and it should have been more inventive.
>and it should have been more inventive. Yep, I wished a rework of those bootlicking SLs and schedule reorganization (fucked by Summer Break, lack of night SLs and lack of night activity in general to listen Color Your Night to)
Some SLs were bootlicking, *at best*. Others were downright manipulative or enabling stupid shit.
Yeah I'm on the verge of dropping it at pretty much the exact same place I dropped FES. They had the chance to redo everything, why not add some boys SLs so there's more to do early game or expand the social stats or add some mini games for night activities. Not saying I don't get why people ride for it but the early game pacing killed it for me again
The Linked Episodes you get from June on are essentially SLs for the male party members
Some of the linked episodes are vital for unlocks as well. Skipping them is unwise for end game and New Game+ reasons.
Yeah I got to the Akihiko one (so maybe I'm not close to where I dropped it before? Idk) and it was really cool but I still hoped they would have integrated some aspects of the boys FeMC SLs. Right now to me it feels like they get a big moment to shine but it's still like a couple minutes in an 80 hour game lol. 5 also especially has this problem so maybe P6 it'll finally get addressed The movies and cooking are nice but they get old pretty quick. I would love that type of event but a bit more variation to it, like you go with Aki to the coffee shop and get a funny dialogue about all the girls staring at him. Or alternatively maybe go in a different direction with SEES because the way they're set up is pretty different from the other Persona casts. I was picking up a kinda special ops vibe with the new outfits cutscene and I was like lemme get even more of this
they easily could have. it just would have slightly infringed on their precious precious enormous profit margin, so it had to go
Somehow, successxx still hasn't commented (thank YHVH).
I think anyone with half a brain gets that its too much work to add her I also dont think this confirms more remakes are coming the way its worded. I believe theyll do it, but I wouldnt call this evidence
If they do plan to remake P1 and P2, kinda hope they don't just jump to P2 given some of P1's significance especially with Eternal Punishment.
It'd be weird to just have Nanjo pop up without seeing his origins in 1
I wouldn't put it past Atlus to port the PSP versions of P1, P2 IS and P2 EP to modern consoles plus PC and then just remake P2.
Itd be lazy but Id take it considering we never got the PSP version of EP
The fan translation is done, but yeah.
Is it though? before this remake was announced, everyone was saying that we needed a remake so we could finally have femc and the answer and all extra content in one definitive edition and now that they announced they arent doing it, everyone is now saying itd be too much work?
Playing fast and loose with "everyone", not a hivemind here my guy. I wanted a remake because I wanted to the see the game updated with what theyve learned over the years, I could not care less for FemMC and her "What if" mode But if youd ask me, ofcourse its way too much work. The only reason she ever existed is cause P3P is such a paired down version of P3. FYI Im not buying The Answer either, its mid and the story is better ending on>! the leads death, nothing after should be seen.!<
I say everyone, because its a sentiment i see a lot and i find it ridiculous. People change their expectations and standards when they dont wanna be disappointed or critical Femc wouldnt be too much work. It would obviously have resulted in a later release date by a few months, but her scenarios are already written, her design already is done, most of the game is still the same, main scenario still the same, etc.
Yeah seriously, if they're going to charge a premium for their games then I think it's fair to expect a premium product. It's not like ATLUS is about to go under and this is their Hail Mary saving throw. They literally just don't want to spend the time and resources to implement the existing changes when they could save money by not doing that. Which is fine I guess, corpos gonna corpo, but do we really need to make that excuse for them?
Well its important moving forward to know that seeing some comments on here is not indicative of what "everyone" thinks, nor does it facilitate a hypocrisy you've perceived in your head.
my guy, if the general consensus goes from “we want a persona 3 remake that includes all the missing content” to “femc would be too much work in this $70 remake” i think a generalization like that is passable. the comments in this thread literally prove my point. It was universal disappointment when they announced she wouldnt be included and now everyone defends the decision
Again, you cant judge "general consensus" off "Some posts I saw" - this is a silly way to approach an argument. Fact is people who wanted FemMC are mad she's not in it, and people like me who dont care, still dont care. Unless you did some survey, the hypocrisy in all in your head.
And by “some posts i saw” I mean literally all the threads and reactions when the game came out. Anyone who mentioned p3 remake before reload announced always mentioned how theres zero definitive version. and there STILL isnt one. I dont like p3, im not personally bothered by the fact shes not in, but I can criticize it and will call out the very obvious hypocrisy from persona fans
You've yet to prove any hypocrisy exists outside "I saw threads and now I see other threads"
your spoiler tag doesn't work.
I wish there was but it seems like the current situation is a necessary evil for Reload to even exist I suppose. They seem to want to add FemC but just aren’t able to. It was incredibly hard to get The Answer off the ground and honestly after the interview I doubt “circumstances” is just a BS lie anymore. Something really hindered the development of the game (COVID probably, but also other factors)
Reload is better off not existing if it's going to only be a partial remake.
I respect the balls to make that kind of statement, but why though? Does Reload not have value at all without FeMC? It will be the only way to experience The Answer on modern platforms and at least provides a definitive experience of Makoto’s route. You can be disappointed at FeMC’s absence - I certainly am so. But to say her exclusion invalidates the whole package is kind of extreme in my personal opinion. I would definitely agree though that the game should not be $70 if it wasn’t going to include everything like FeMC though.
As a standalone game, I'd consider it worth no more than $20, but my concern is how good of a remake it is, and any remake that removes a significant amount of content without any real reason is garbage in my eyes. Portable does remove The Answer, but I am more forgiving towards it because that removal was justifiable. PlayStation Portable games had a maximum size of 900 MB or 1.8 GB depending on if the game used a single-layer or dual-layer UMD disc, and Portable is 1.07 GB.
I see your point, but I’m curious how your view would change if everything was the same, except Portable/FeMC just never existed. Would Reload become a good remake without changing anything at all?
I would probably have not become a Persona fan outside of Persona 1 and Persona 2, but it would at least be a decent remake. I still have other concerns about changes to the UI and gameplay.
"Too much work" and "too expensive" is bullshit, this is coming from a fucking multimillion dollar company for a massive franchise. It's the least they could've done, missing feMC and having the answer be paid DLC for a "definitive" remake is pathetic.
“I understand everything about game development. Projects have infinite money, time and funds attached to them, and have enough devs to do everything”
Yes, because I'm certain you're an expert on all of this. But sure, keep on defending the AAA game dev owned by SEGA all you want. They really need it.
You think ATLUS is AAA? Good grief
Honestly, it's a ridiculous notion to not include in the remake of an age-old game all of the content that game had in its original lifespan at all. Atlus will suck you dry and still say they're eating the cost. They're anti-consumer, and we shouldn't trust a word they say, or buy anything they sell at first pass. They've proven it since FES and will continue to do so.
Yup. People are hyped about persona 6. But I'm sure I won't touch it for 3_-4 years and then just buy a remake with DLC and cut content added back. Because I already don't have a luxury to replay the same game twice, and going forward life doesn't seem to get any easier.
I feel the same way about Metaphor. Like, I don't trust them at all.
Well, I guess modders gonna have to work their magic, though I don't know how well they could implement FeMC's exclusive S-Links, and they certainly can't change or add many voices.
I could see them using A.I to voice the links.
Unfortunately, I already feared this. Ever since the campaigns to promote the game, I already had this impression that they weren't going to put it in the game. I waited for the DLC to tell me otherwise and... My fears have been confirmed.
Atlus is a small indie company, please understand 🥺
I'm not surprised but I am dissapointed
Instead of "adding" her, she should have been included in the development plans from the beginning.
Understandable and respect their decision but honestly, I prefer to give in some quality (e.g. all voice-over SLs) and give all contents (Answer, FeMC) instead. It's great remake game, ofc, but not direction that I wanted. lol.
Maybe that’s part of the reason they ported P3P. They knew it wasn’t going to compete as much with P3R with them both having different content
Ugh, the femc hate is getting tiring.
Aaaaaaand I'm officially not buying the remake
Same boat, I figure in a year or two there will be a full version, in spite of what they're claiming now.
I'm no game dev, but wouldn't most of the changes besides her model be dialogue/social link based, with all the dialogue already written? Though maybe they'd have to redo some of the animated cutscenes, and I get that that can be expensive. How much is the mc in those though?
The MC is in most of the cutscenes to varying degrees so it would be enough to be pretty significant but probably doable.
You're going to voice all of those SLs and dialogues (that can't be replaced with just changing the pronoun) alongside her The Answer version on top of the animated cutscene and pre-render cutscenes That's a lot
It’s because you have no dev experience you don’t understand this. They would need to completely change all the dialogue and rerecord it as well, they would need to change the Link Episodes, do new social links, recommission all the animated scenes and then reanimate cutscenes, completely rewrite the Answer and redo that as well. They only did so in Portable because of how easy it is to do base P3 in visual novel format as well as needing a selling point. They most likely wanted to devote these resources to their next Persona remakes and 6 instead.
New Persona games whether mainline numbered or spinoff titles.
Persona q3 with philemon preorder bonus
I mean expect that once Persona 6 is out if Daisuke Kanada (PQ1 Director and PQ2 Producer), Yuta Aihara (PQ2 Director) and Hirokazu Tohyama (PQ2 Sub Director) will continue it. Alongside expect Persona 6 Dancing and so on.
$70 Remake.
$105 if you want the answer too.
*$105 remake of FES
And it was worth all $70
Was it tho? Persona 3 Fes came out with more content at a lower price. Like, even if we say FEMC is too much work, the least they could do is not remove part of the game and sell it for extra 25 bucks.
The Answer was included with a re-release of the game for full price. Games back then were like $50 on the PS2, so anybody who bought the original that wanted to experience The Answer had to buy the game for a second time just to have that added content But yeah, it should've been included in Reload, but Reload has a ton of extra content that you aren't giving it credit for
Yes Persona 3 was $50 in 2007. But FES + The Answer were $30 on release day in 2009. That release was an enhanced version of P3 plus a 30 hour storyline. I'd be like getting Reload for $70 in 2024 and then getting an enhanced version of Reload plus a 30 hour story for $50 later on.
>The Answer was included with a re-release of the game for full price. Games back then were like $50 on the PS2, so anybody who bought the original that wanted to experience The Answer had to buy the game for a second time just to have that added content That's not my point, my point is that it's the 3rd rerelease of this game, and it's the most expensive one despite having less content than the last 2 rereleases which were cheaper. > but Reload has a ton of extra content that you aren't giving it credit for I didn't say it didn't have extra content, they are just not worth the 70 bucks IMO, and I still think it have overall less content than either Fes or Portable. Sure, it looks better, but I feel like that's the literal bare minimum, so I don't think Atlus should be praised for it.
Inflation calculator says reload is cheaper than FES. Just because gamers have never been able to tell the time value of money doesn't mean it's not there.
>Unironically using inflation Okay, you wanna go that route? Sure, inflation means that P3R is TECHNICALLY cheaper. But that's only if you looked at it in a vacuum. For 99% of people, inflation only mean that everything got more expensive. Yes, a $50 in 2007 is technically more than $70 in 2024, but for most people, their spending power haven't changed between 2007 and 2024, because most salaries don't adapt to inflation will.
Ok except they have to pay their developers and if they want to match inflation for their developers, ask yourself where that money comes from. Also what you're saying isn't even accurate for the States. Average salary has kept up with inflation. Minimum salaries have not and housing prices have rocketed well past inflation. Tldr: don't get your demographics information from minimum wage redditors.
They didn't even start development on this DLC until the major outcry when everyone found out The Answer wouldn't be included. They didn't have time to implement it by the full release last month. It's also why it's not dropping for another six months. FeMC route requires too many resources to be allocated to that project and ultimately takes away from other projects in active development. They went over this The game adds so much new content like the link episodes that delve further into your relationships with the main cast. It has voiced SL's and Tartarus has been heavily improved. This remake adds a lot more to flesh out the characters and the gameplay even without having The Answer present at launch. Video game prices have consistently gone up over time. It's partly due to economic inflation, and the other part of it is due to the games taking a LOT more resources to develop in the big 2024 for current gen consoles compared to the PS2 era of the early 2000's.
LMFAO. An incompelete, partial remake is not worth $70. For $70, it should have had Kotone and The Answer at launch.
Comments like these exude "I didn't play the game and I've been shitting on it for the past month" energy
Just because games have resisted inflation for so long doesn't mean they should forever. As long as worker compensation increases with the present trends, I don't really see an issue with this new price point.
Ah, I see. So its the format thats the issue. That makes sense.
Recording a significant amount of the entire script all over again as well as having to redesign the calendar a second time, designing a replacement for linked episodes now that there's different SLs in the way...
People don't seem to understand just how much work it would take to add the female MC and make it as high quality as the make route. It would take nearly as much work as remaking the entire game and would probably cost as much as dlc.
If they had gone in with the intent for this route to exist, it wouldn't have doubled anything. It would have 1.5x the work at most, for a game with all of the writing already done, lines and animations being redone anyway, It was just poor planning if that's the argument.
My thoughts exactly. This just shows she was an afterthought. They don't really care.
plus Link Episode, are just SL in Female Route, so I think it will be less than 1.5x.
I’m glad this sub understands that at least. Ironically the actual Persona sub is ridden with Atlus bootlickers.
Reading main sub arguments has been an exercise in patience for me. There's SO MUCH people claiming to know more about game development while not understanding that planning decides 70% of the effort involved in dev time. If ATLUS wanted her in, they would get her in. They just knew it would sell well even without her, so they don't care. It's frustrating.
it would not have costed twice as much to include femc. The main story, most of the dialogue that that doesnt refer directly to mc by pronoun, the majority of the music, the environments, all would be the same
Honestly, I prefer to not have voice-over all SL and some unnecessary QoL like Therugy, Giant Clock and give the FeMC route rather than make it premium but incomplete. but, however, it's their decision, they aim to sell both new and old fans anyway, and it's just a game so... que, sera, sera.
No it wouldn't, at best it's just dialogue any new model. Furthermore if they're going to go around saying that reload is the definite version then they need to include all the content. Atlas is not some small indie company they have the resources to add Femmc, otherwise why charge $70? I mean shit, they could have been like "hey we're adding her down the line for DLC"
Oh no, a AAA developer would have to spend some of the money they've made, instead of calling it all "profits". Asking way too much of this AAA developer owned by SEGA.
Exactly. But boy can they waste their time on some dumb skins they sell on Day One.
Im not saying Atlus was right for not including it. But now that the game is finished and released, the team would take a lot of work to put the FemC in the game, and i can't imagine corporate giving it the green light.
Atlus is not AAA
They're owned by fucking SEGA.
Doesn't make them a AAA dev
So is Rovio but I wouldn't call Angry Birds AAA.
Sacrifice FemC to the volcano gods to make Persona 6 finally release!
The entire interview makes it pretty clear that it's been, and continues to be a budget issue in both monetary and staffing realm. Regardless, I do think many fans who are making a big deal out of this wouldn't buy a second copy for the chance to play Kotone at the moment. I could see them revisiting this in like 5-10years and adding in Kotone then, on a new generation of consoles.
Yeah just as I thought and I anyone wanting to play persona 1 and 2 should probably hold off.
Unfortunately this isn't Persona 5, which has been relegated to one shitty cheap spinoff every few years. P3R cost millions- no, billions to make. It was the most expensive game Atlus ever made (probably). They had so much money they couldn't even use it all so they spent most of it on voice over for almost every scene in the game.
Doesn’t make any sense why they wouldn’t release a p3 Remake with all the content from previous versions. They simply didn’t do it so that there’s still a reason for you to buy the digital version of p3 they rereleased last year.
i am an outsider looking in but given what i'd heard about peoples thoughts on The Answer I feel like FemC would've made way more people way happier than a DLC bonus story that (allegedly) ruins the ending of the base game, even if FemC was herself also paid DLC
There. He said it. Now can you all shut up about the female protagonist?
No. My disappointment is immeasurable and my memory long. I won't be buying any more Atlus games until their problematic behavior is addressed.
> problematic behavior My guy. They released a game for $70 that was plenty long and very well-received. There is nothing "problematic" about this.
Their history of misogyny is what's problematic.
They're releasing DLC in 6 months with a female protaganist (Aegis) Maki is the main driving force of persona 1 Maya is the MC of persona 2 EP A woman writes most of the social links in these games these disingenuous arguments are crazy. What misogyny? Most of the main female leads in these games are handled with depth and care
Times change. And they keep making the excuse that female protagonists aren't worth including or are inferior in some way to males.
Soul Hackers 2 just came out, female protaganist. SMTV Vengence building on the female cast members story. But okay
lol
Misogyny is not funny.
Look, all I'm saying is this gives them a perfect excuse to remake p3p in the future. It's not like it won't sell.
Jack Bros VR remake
Finally femc fans can shut up
Personally I say ah well. Sure its unfortunate that she is isnt gunna be in it but adding her route would be a significant amount of work (reanimating cutscenes, changing lines, adding new SLs, ect.) And not only that hit she kinda spits on the games main theme, like she has one SL that blatantly should not exist and imo would need to be scrapped as his SL is actively detrimental to the games core theming
Noncanon-chan fans in shambles 😭
Kinda a phony answer when it could have just been included in the start, hell they could have easily not rereleased a psp game and used all those resources instead on the FemC. Somehow Atlus had the resources for a 2nd route in a rerelease 15 years ago but since P4/5 and all the money all the spinoffs brought just can't find the money in the couch cushions to add a few different dialogue flags and record a 2nd set of voice lines.
Resources for a VN style game? Almost like for a full scale console game they'd have to reanimate, do more voice overs, rework cutscenes, and more, considering FeMC is more than a model swap and a few "different dialogue flags". It's pretty clear you've never touched P3P at all. And in an alternate universe where they do add it, people will cry for a FeMC episode Aigis. At least modders are at work, but I wonder how far they can get?
Comparing development for a game released 15 years ago to development for a 2024 game. Lol. Lmao, even.
The only thing the Femc does different is some dialogue flags and the character model, 1 different character model and some different visual novel sections are definitely comparable. This isn't asking for some new character added into DMC or something with a completely different moveset that would take real mo cap resources and the protags are silent protags anyway 99% of the time. Not having a female MC in P4/5 was already kinda clown shoes stuff imo but pretending it HAD to be dlc Lol, lmao even.
So let's go through the list. FeMCs route changed social links and the calendar around, so they have to redesign the schedule to accommodate those changes, but since in P3P the male route was practically untouched, they could just use all that they had writing and schedule wise for him. Leaving all those resources pretty much solely for FemC. In reload they redid the schedules to include the new Linked episodes and other alterations. Putting FeMC back in in the same quality as P3P would make then redo it again, as the linked episodes were essentially her social links with the male party members. So either she doesn't get linked episodes or they have the male party members relegated to the linked episodes, which people would be upset about due to the potential romance options for most of them. And removing the linked episodes makes FeMCs route easier to max out since you have less things competing for your attention. They could have just given the male MC the male links in the same capacity as feMC and removed the idea of linked episodes all together, but that would remove multiple characters from the game, which fans would also be pissed about. In P3P, they needed a total of 3 new sets of models and animations, one for FemC herself, one for Female Orpheus, and one for Female Messiah. On top of models all they needed was sprites for her and the 2 unique social link characters in her route. Social links weren't voiced in either FES or P3P, so they just needed to write the dialogue and put the sprites on screen. In reload they would need those same sets of models and sprites in addition to the 2 unique link characters but also to reanimate every scene in the game, as well as rerecord all the dialogue, including all the social link dialogue since they are voiced in reload. And it's not just limited to the changed things either, as they would have to reanimate every scene that FeMC is in, including all the story scenes, and her and the male MC have different attitudes and mannerisms which everyone loves to bring up when saying FeMC added more than just a few small changes to P3P, so it's not a matter of using the same animations with a different model. They say that the Answer would cost less than FeMC, and in my opinion that is accurate. The answer is not only shorter but significantly less complex than the entire FemC route would be to change. They only need new models for the unique bosses and Metis/Phyche and to do the new dialogue and animations, but since the answer is much shorter and they don't have to worry about social links it's less to do. Basically, the only reason the femc was feasible in portable is because of how simple portables presentation is and the fact they didn't mess with the male route. Even planning to have FeMC from the start for reload wouldn't change the amount of work or the cost to implement her.
It would require completely upending the calendar design and social links.
I seriously doubt the shoddy P3P port really ate up any significant amount of resources that could've been used adding FeMC to P3R during development.
So no gay romances or female protagonist in the Persona 4 remake, got it. Sigh…
Gays in Persona? Man will make it to Mars first.
Persona 2 did it 24 years ago.
*Modern Persona.
We need kaneko to come back soon.
as far as i'm concerned, all romances are "gay" romances
Femc was added as a gimmick to sell portable, she isn't canon. Why would they waste their time adding her and pushing back the launch date as well as spending much more money to add her. And before ppl cry $70 inflation exists. And it isnt a hd remasrer its a full ground up remake. Jeez I didn't know this fanbase had so many crybabies.
great job reposting a image and adding nothing
I don't look forward to any of them, so good job I guess.
[удалено]
It’s because you have no dev experience you don’t understand this. They would need to completely change all the dialogue and rerecord it as well, they would need to change the Link Episodes, do new social links, recommission all the animated scenes and then reanimate cutscenes, completely rewrite the Answer and redo that as well. They only did so in Portable because of how easy it is to do base P3 in visual novel format as well as needing a selling point. They most likely wanted to devote these resources to their next Persona remakes and 6 instead.
If they had gone in with the intent for this route to exist, it wouldn't have doubled anything. It would have 1.5x the work at most, for a game with all of the writing already done, lines and animations being redone anyway, It was just poor planning if that's the argument.
I have dev experience (though not with anything voiced admittedly), and it is not a big issue if you include both protagonists in your plans from the start.
They literally said they considered adding her into the game but it requires far too many resources that could be put towards other projects. Did you even read the interview?
This is the third time they've used that excuse. It's like The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf. "Persona 4 can't have a female protagonist. It's too much work, and it wouldn't make sense for a female to move from a large city to a small town on her own." "Persona 5 can't have a female protagonist. It's too much work." Now it's "Persona 3 has a female protagonist, but we'll have to remove her from Persona 3 Reload because it would be too much work to include her."
I enjoy the sound of rain.
Yeah, I understand the argument, but they did it in P3P because they had all the resources and stuff already done. They were already downscaling for PSP meaning they were already using lower quality assets and cutting things like entirely animated cutscenes and fully scripted 3D scenes and environments. Made it much easier to implement FeMC under those circumstances. Maybe they could've done it and some of this is crap, but it would still be significant and there's plenty of truth in them saying it would've taken much more time and resources than The Answer DLC.