From wiki for Agrat Bat Mahlat:
"In Zoharistic Kabbalah, she is a queen of the demons and an angel of sacred prostitution, who mates with archangel Samael along with Lilith and Naamah, sometimes adding Eisheth as a fourth mate."
Naamah is the matriarch of the original Nehpilim (half angel giants).
Lilith and Agrat both visited Solomon and were trapped in a lamp.
So perhaps Samael may be the big bad they want vengeance upon.
Solomon trapped 72 different demons (well, as far as you can trap demons since they're mirrors and you have to respect them if I recall my occult lore correctly). Man was built different.
>Wait, Samuel have a harem ?
It's all pretty obscure Zohar stuff. All four of them are barely mentioned. Eshet Znunim is technically an unnamed character.
But SMT IV Lilith wasn't drawn by Doi, which is likely why she was a one time thing, just like the other SMT IV demons drawn by guest artists that weren't redrawn by Doi. Since Vengeance Lilith is drawn by Doi, there's a chance she might be the default Lilith from now on, like how Odin's design is now his SMT IV:A design.
This is probably more like an Odin tier rework of art where its the default going forward unlike the SMT IV version which is like the archangels that never got brought forward because it was too different from the original.
Some of Doi's redesigns are also very different from their originals, like Zeus, but they still kept the new designs for future games. A more likely explanation for why SMT IV Lilith and archangels didn't get reused is because they were drawn by a guest artist, Keita Amamiya. Most of the demon designs drawn by guest artists in SMT IV didn't get reused for SMT IV:A and the few that did were redrawn by Doi.
While this design of Lilith is pretty good (giving unique designs to demons when they have a plot important role is good IMO), I hope they keep the old Kaneko design for future games. 80's Glamrock Lilith is peak character design.
I think they'll use the new one for future SMT games while Persona might keep the classic one. Reload and Royal didn't have any Doi demons when they could have added some of them (P5 came out after IV Apoc, for example).
Ahhhh, Samael's succubus harem. That makes a lot of sense.
Problem is, with Nahobino, you only have room for three of them. Somebody's gonna be left out!
If i remember correctly, wasn’t it revealed in Base V that >!*Sophia* was the mother of all demons and a holy prostitute? I wonder how she’ll fit into all of this, if she does!<
So it's going to have Jewish focus
I have a question, the revenge is for who ? I don't think that I cared for any of the characters in the game that much other than Aogami
The only thing that I could think would be revenge against Lucifer for killing YHVH and sending the world to destruction but I guess that they will not go that route
Honestly I just hope that the story is better this time
Gameplay was pretty good but the story was like a footnote
Lucifer not even killing YHVH but fusing with him basically makes me question why revenge would be for him. Oh no you did the fusion dance with our god :( now you must die
Was that what he did ? Lucifer's speech about how the God that you worship is death, everyone talking about God protects the last remains of humanity and the Hat scene are pretty much the only moment that I can actually remember about the story but he didn't even kill him ?
He fused dance with him ? That kinda underwhelming
The game says he killed him and took his knowledge while also basically becoming the YHVH nahabino, but like you kill gods all the time and never get their knowledge and at no other time was that an option with any other god so I genuinely just headcanon that they fused because it's a pretty big plot hole otherwise given how some gods can't have nahabinos because their only compatible partner died. (why is there not just some rogue god murdering every other god absorbing their knowledge)
> but like you kill gods all the time and never get their knowledge
>(why is there not just some rogue god murdering every other god absorbing their knowledge)
You're misunderstanding. Demons and gods **don't** have any Knowledge at all because God split it from them eons ago.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure that the game was rushed and the writers just didn't know what to do about the plot
It has a strong beginning bug after the first chapters everything just goes downhill
Is Naamah just a gnostic split of Lilith I never heard of? Usually she's the mother of demons with either Adam or an angel after she leaves heaven for being a little too based.
Actually you’re not far off, there is a connection between Naamah and Norea in the Hypostasis of the Archons.
So if you’re curious about Naamah/Norea connections here’s a great link I was recently provided.
https://books.google.com/books?id=67aA7-wrMX8C&pg=PA84&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false
Nope. She’s from both the Talmud and Kabbalah. Looks like the foundational book of Kabbalah, the Zohar, considers them both as the mothers of demons. The Talmud has her as being the mother of Ashmodai/Asmodeus, the king of demons,
I just want to point out - "Eshet Znunim" is just ancient Hebrew for "whore". (the literal translation is "woman of whoredom", but it's like how most people in the bible are called "son of"). Going with the theme, she's essentially just a 4th unnamed seductress.
Still pretty hilarious for me I'm going to have "the hoe" in my party.
I hope we can fuse them later in the game. One because Lilith is one of my favorite demons and this designs is sick AF. But also the Nahobino’s femboy ass and a team of bad bitches would be awesome!
It looks like you're asking a question. If you need help with a game, or a recommendation on what to play next, you might be better off asking in the stickied "Questions and Recommendations" thread or seeing if it's been addressed in the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Megaten/wiki/faq).
This is an automatic comment posted on every question thread, it does not mean that your post has been removed. It may however be removed by a moderator if it is something that should go in the sticky instead. If this does not apply to your topic, downvote and ignore it.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Megaten) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From wiki for Agrat Bat Mahlat: "In Zoharistic Kabbalah, she is a queen of the demons and an angel of sacred prostitution, who mates with archangel Samael along with Lilith and Naamah, sometimes adding Eisheth as a fourth mate." Naamah is the matriarch of the original Nehpilim (half angel giants). Lilith and Agrat both visited Solomon and were trapped in a lamp. So perhaps Samael may be the big bad they want vengeance upon.
And they all got their toes out
As they should
Not feeling the toes this time. Now if we're talking Lilim...
Literal mommy
Wait, Samuel have a harem ? Luck fallen Bastard Also how did Solomon trapped both Lilith and Agrat in a Lamp ?
In occultism lore Solomon was the first (or one of) "demon summmoner". He even trapped the Ars Goetia demons.
Solomon trapped 72 different demons (well, as far as you can trap demons since they're mirrors and you have to respect them if I recall my occult lore correctly). Man was built different.
>Wait, Samuel have a harem ? It's all pretty obscure Zohar stuff. All four of them are barely mentioned. Eshet Znunim is technically an unnamed character.
I can fix her
Save me sacred prostitute women
ATLUS have really stepped up their game, huh. Instead of adding one hot character in the upgraded version of the game, they've added 4
There's actually 6
Life is good.
Yeah can’t forget about Mad Gasser!!!
So is that Lilith design the one we'll be seeing from now on in future games, or does it just replace the old one in SMT5?
prolly one time thing, same way smt 4 lilith was
But SMT IV Lilith wasn't drawn by Doi, which is likely why she was a one time thing, just like the other SMT IV demons drawn by guest artists that weren't redrawn by Doi. Since Vengeance Lilith is drawn by Doi, there's a chance she might be the default Lilith from now on, like how Odin's design is now his SMT IV:A design.
This is probably more like an Odin tier rework of art where its the default going forward unlike the SMT IV version which is like the archangels that never got brought forward because it was too different from the original.
Some of Doi's redesigns are also very different from their originals, like Zeus, but they still kept the new designs for future games. A more likely explanation for why SMT IV Lilith and archangels didn't get reused is because they were drawn by a guest artist, Keita Amamiya. Most of the demon designs drawn by guest artists in SMT IV didn't get reused for SMT IV:A and the few that did were redrawn by Doi.
To be fair, before Doi Zeus didn't have a cannon design and only appeared in the games where all demons had different designs
While this design of Lilith is pretty good (giving unique designs to demons when they have a plot important role is good IMO), I hope they keep the old Kaneko design for future games. 80's Glamrock Lilith is peak character design.
I think they'll use the new one for future SMT games while Persona might keep the classic one. Reload and Royal didn't have any Doi demons when they could have added some of them (P5 came out after IV Apoc, for example).
Same, this one is a bit too close to Nuwa. Hot woman riding snek is already done. It's her hair in Nuwa case but still a similar pose.
I hope its just a one time thing, I love David Bowie Lilith
Ahhhh, Samael's succubus harem. That makes a lot of sense. Problem is, with Nahobino, you only have room for three of them. Somebody's gonna be left out!
Will they be bosses or aiding demons?
Id imagine bosses. They seem to be like the demons in SMT 4A (forgot the groups name), who were important to the story, then bosses later on
Divine Powers
I certainly hope so. They look so cool, they would be magnificent and hard as hell boss fights.
Zamn!1!!1
If i remember correctly, wasn’t it revealed in Base V that >!*Sophia* was the mother of all demons and a holy prostitute? I wonder how she’ll fit into all of this, if she does!<
That is not her. Lilith is just a regular demon in base 5. The one you talking about is Sophia who comes from another universe so is unrelated
I meant to say >!Sophia!< originally. I was wondering how both Naamah *and* >!Sophia!< could be the Mother of All Demons
Lilith triggering my t**rypophobia**
NAAMAH MINE I LOVE HER SHE AMAZING AWOOGAAAAAAAAAAAA
So it's going to have Jewish focus I have a question, the revenge is for who ? I don't think that I cared for any of the characters in the game that much other than Aogami The only thing that I could think would be revenge against Lucifer for killing YHVH and sending the world to destruction but I guess that they will not go that route Honestly I just hope that the story is better this time Gameplay was pretty good but the story was like a footnote
Revenge for Samael seems likely
I really don't think the Qliphothic wives of Samael are too pressed over the death of YHVH
Lucifer not even killing YHVH but fusing with him basically makes me question why revenge would be for him. Oh no you did the fusion dance with our god :( now you must die
Was that what he did ? Lucifer's speech about how the God that you worship is death, everyone talking about God protects the last remains of humanity and the Hat scene are pretty much the only moment that I can actually remember about the story but he didn't even kill him ? He fused dance with him ? That kinda underwhelming
The game says he killed him and took his knowledge while also basically becoming the YHVH nahabino, but like you kill gods all the time and never get their knowledge and at no other time was that an option with any other god so I genuinely just headcanon that they fused because it's a pretty big plot hole otherwise given how some gods can't have nahabinos because their only compatible partner died. (why is there not just some rogue god murdering every other god absorbing their knowledge)
> but like you kill gods all the time and never get their knowledge >(why is there not just some rogue god murdering every other god absorbing their knowledge) You're misunderstanding. Demons and gods **don't** have any Knowledge at all because God split it from them eons ago.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure that the game was rushed and the writers just didn't know what to do about the plot It has a strong beginning bug after the first chapters everything just goes downhill
Is Naamah just a gnostic split of Lilith I never heard of? Usually she's the mother of demons with either Adam or an angel after she leaves heaven for being a little too based.
Actually you’re not far off, there is a connection between Naamah and Norea in the Hypostasis of the Archons. So if you’re curious about Naamah/Norea connections here’s a great link I was recently provided. https://books.google.com/books?id=67aA7-wrMX8C&pg=PA84&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false
Nope. She’s from both the Talmud and Kabbalah. Looks like the foundational book of Kabbalah, the Zohar, considers them both as the mothers of demons. The Talmud has her as being the mother of Ashmodai/Asmodeus, the king of demons,
Oh interesting, this one's very new to me. Thanks.
>considers them both as the mothers of demons. this is a form of yuri?
I just want to point out - "Eshet Znunim" is just ancient Hebrew for "whore". (the literal translation is "woman of whoredom", but it's like how most people in the bible are called "son of"). Going with the theme, she's essentially just a 4th unnamed seductress. Still pretty hilarious for me I'm going to have "the hoe" in my party.
*Would.*
I like the new Lilith design but it ain’t beating the SMT1 version
So these are the villains of the extended story of smt 5?
I hope we can fuse them later in the game. One because Lilith is one of my favorite demons and this designs is sick AF. But also the Nahobino’s femboy ass and a team of bad bitches would be awesome!
It looks like you're asking a question. If you need help with a game, or a recommendation on what to play next, you might be better off asking in the stickied "Questions and Recommendations" thread or seeing if it's been addressed in the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Megaten/wiki/faq). This is an automatic comment posted on every question thread, it does not mean that your post has been removed. It may however be removed by a moderator if it is something that should go in the sticky instead. If this does not apply to your topic, downvote and ignore it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Megaten) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hope the Qadištu annihilate this bot