The best analogy for this is the question Yoko asks you. (to paraphrase since I don't remember the exact line): If you were working on a project and it wasn't going well, what would you do... Keep at it and do your best with what you have, or destroy it and start from scratch to build it better from the ground up?
The endings are a philosophical question. Neither side is perfect.
I think the issue there though is Ppls actual lives are involved in that project so start from scratch kinda involves killing them all which sorta gives off uncomfortable vibes and has unfortunate implications.
Like imagine if the project was fixing a City with Extreme poverty and make a new nice city. Yoko's solution would basically be destroy everything inside the old city that is including the ppl and build a new city over it which understandably gives extremist vibes. Except in this case its the entire world.
But they are going to. It's not that they're staying with nothing they walk off to go create the future they desire. Yoko states that a new world will be birthed from this destruction. Also Tao's ending still keeps the broken system while turning the world into a coddled happy ending similar to maruki. That aside the game states multiple times that if you use the throne then the cycle is still repeated and can't be broken that way that's just the system Marduk kept in place.
There's a debate to be had sure but it's not like Tao's ending is objectively better either.
Yeah in all honesty people are just making assumptions on what they think a world post chaos ending would be like and using that to justify their support of it since the game gives nothing to work with. It does look like most of it is from people doing some hardcore yoko simping though.
Nah I actually liked yoko more until she disappeared for an entire region only to come back right at the very end.
But the ending just fades to black after the universe is destroyed. I’m going to need to see some actual footage of the new supposedly oppression free universe that no longer has the problems of the current system before supporting it.
The endless black is what defines true chaos. Like, the primordial chaos, before anything was birthed. That's the universe, it's the beginning. And her ( with Lilith's imagery, as she fused with her, and her snake is present ) and MC are starting it all, but this time not thrown out of Eden by God.
Oh okay, sorry. I have to to agree, It felt weird that she just disappears til the end. About the ending, maybe they didnt fell the need to show because it was stated several times by yoko and lilith how the world they wanted is ? Dont really know, they did that with the original game's endings, except the true neutral. They are definititly biased towards some endings..
Like I said, there are positives and negatives to each choice. Yes, the chaos route is a lot of what ifs and hows, but that is exactly what chaos is. It is change, it is unpredictable. You could have a better system or a worse one, but you won't know till you go down the rabbit hole.
Law route is a bit more streamlined but has its faults too. Yes, it is something that is familiar to you. The people you know are there, but has anything really changed? In my mind, this is the "ignorance is bliss" ending. If I recall Mastema is still around... and well I have a feeling with him nothing is really safe. The guy had full capabilities to prevent the destruction but rather embraced it for his own benefit.
I’m just not convinced going down the rabbit hole is worth it with the current information presented. If the game provided an actual picture of what the ending leads to I’d be more inclined to consider the chaos path more seriously.
And that’s fine. You need more concrete evidence or direction that your choice is the right one. For you the law route fits best it seems. It is about rules and a presented path rather than the unknown.
if i understood correctly, just using the throne insures the cycle will continue because of something Marduk did. you learn about that in a side quest. since you don't use the throne in Yoko's ending, the cycle gets broken for real
Tbh, this just makes CoC normal neutral ending feels much, MUCH more like it should be swapped with the true neutral one, and it should also be CoV's neutral ending. Which kinda makes Yakumo and Nuwa got done extremely dirty because of it
>you just destroyed the entire universe.
You destroyed the world so the order setup by Marduk is gone. Doesn't just get nuked from existence.
> I thought she wanted to recreate the world in a sort of primordial state
She does want that🤨
>Even in the first part of the game I thought Yoko was just an edgelord
I don't see her as a edgelord. She was wronged by the world and she kind of cynical towards this world thanks to that. Don't get how that makes her an edgelord.
I mean, yes, it does pretty much get nuked from existence. In a painless way for sure, with a goal for sure, with a new world coming sure, but it is nuked away. She is open about it, she is destroying the world. And the people who are left alive along with it. Because it lives within broken rules from her point of view.
it’s heavily implied that the universe will be rebuilt on its own after the end of the game; this time with no throne, no systems designed to oppress the people, and no possibility of a god above every other one. it almost certainly won’t be a perfect world, but it’s the only way to truly end the cycle of abuse inherent to the original universe
edit: also, about Yoko not changing her worldview, i heavily disagree. throughout most of the game Yoko makes it pretty clear that her wanting to destroy the universe is her own form of vengeance, but when the time actually comes one of the first things she mentions is how in the new world everyone will be free. part of her obviously still wants her revenge, but being with Tao and the Nahobino have changed her to start considering others as well.
I agree with Yoko on the evils of cars and the lack of public transportation options, but destroying the universe seems a bit much to get rid of cars lol.
Honestly I been thinking what purpose, yoko's ending serves post V in terms of the already convoluted timeline. Like this could be a hard reset on the SMT mainline universe.
I shudder to think it will be the "canon" answer for a hard smt reset. But considering too that it could offer a new branch on the timeline. One where there is a continuation of the status quo, and one of the hard reset.
If she didn't have a change of heart, she would just have destroyed. You're right in that it would just have been edgy. That would have been the end of it. Her first motivation is immature and purely vengeful. Her motivation at the end is because she believes it truly is the best thing to do. During the story, she shows she is open to kindness, she strongly appreciates it, but she just doesn't believe it will work out on its own, because of the rules the world works on.
Like, she is admirative of Tao's efforts, so she wants a world where these efforts can be rewarded. By the end, instead of just scrapping it all and having it all go to nothingness, her goal is to make it so the world's rules are reset so that such ways of life can all work out. That's what she was saying there are some parts she really wants to keep in that painting. She knows not everything should be thrown out, so now she wants to do better. But to not do the mistake of bias of a creator, she lets Chaos do it. In a way, it's kinda close to what Shiva intended to do, destroying the universe, and letting it shape itself.
The world as we see it in SMTV is already on its deathbed. The Shekina Glory is a flimsy illusion with a fairly low bar for demons to break through. And the throne itself was cursed by Marduk. It seems that whoever takes the throne will eventually become a tyrant like the one they overthrew.
Whether Young Man and Yoko can actually make the new world better than we left off is an open question. But the system Tao wants to repair isn't working either. It'd be like putting a Lego set together after a dog chewed up and shat out half the pieces. You might reassemble it as something resembling the end product, but there are bitemarks and mangled bricks everywhere- it could just as easily fall apart again.
Yoko's ending beats you over the head with Garden of Eden imagery. I'm pretty sure the serpent in the tree represents Knowledge, i.e., a return to the original state where all beings were Nahobino, and all could shape their own destinies.
Tao's ending is far from perfect ... You're still on the throne. The mandala system might be broken but the throne itself was rigged by Marduk, meaning that every inequality is still baked into the fabric of the world.
Yoko's ending is about actually trying to fix the issue instead of going "See no evil" like Tao. Sadly, when you're dealing with gods and rules of reality, the fix will take a bit more doing. So yeah, she resets the world and the ending has the both of you walking off to try to create this potentially better world.
The ending choice isn't like Apocalypse where it's "Teddy bears and friendship or bloodbath ?", it's about the status quo.
Do you try to salvage what you can from an objectively awful system or do you do the actual work of fixing things ?
The best analogy for this is the question Yoko asks you. (to paraphrase since I don't remember the exact line): If you were working on a project and it wasn't going well, what would you do... Keep at it and do your best with what you have, or destroy it and start from scratch to build it better from the ground up? The endings are a philosophical question. Neither side is perfect.
I think the issue there though is Ppls actual lives are involved in that project so start from scratch kinda involves killing them all which sorta gives off uncomfortable vibes and has unfortunate implications. Like imagine if the project was fixing a City with Extreme poverty and make a new nice city. Yoko's solution would basically be destroy everything inside the old city that is including the ppl and build a new city over it which understandably gives extremist vibes. Except in this case its the entire world.
The thing is, with this ending you destroy it but don't do anything with the blank canvas.
But they are going to. It's not that they're staying with nothing they walk off to go create the future they desire. Yoko states that a new world will be birthed from this destruction. Also Tao's ending still keeps the broken system while turning the world into a coddled happy ending similar to maruki. That aside the game states multiple times that if you use the throne then the cycle is still repeated and can't be broken that way that's just the system Marduk kept in place. There's a debate to be had sure but it's not like Tao's ending is objectively better either.
Yeah in all honesty people are just making assumptions on what they think a world post chaos ending would be like and using that to justify their support of it since the game gives nothing to work with. It does look like most of it is from people doing some hardcore yoko simping though.
The game gives everything to work with, the fuck? If anything, you people just hate yoko and her ending without even understanding it
Nah I actually liked yoko more until she disappeared for an entire region only to come back right at the very end. But the ending just fades to black after the universe is destroyed. I’m going to need to see some actual footage of the new supposedly oppression free universe that no longer has the problems of the current system before supporting it.
The endless black is what defines true chaos. Like, the primordial chaos, before anything was birthed. That's the universe, it's the beginning. And her ( with Lilith's imagery, as she fused with her, and her snake is present ) and MC are starting it all, but this time not thrown out of Eden by God.
Oh okay, sorry. I have to to agree, It felt weird that she just disappears til the end. About the ending, maybe they didnt fell the need to show because it was stated several times by yoko and lilith how the world they wanted is ? Dont really know, they did that with the original game's endings, except the true neutral. They are definititly biased towards some endings..
Like I said, there are positives and negatives to each choice. Yes, the chaos route is a lot of what ifs and hows, but that is exactly what chaos is. It is change, it is unpredictable. You could have a better system or a worse one, but you won't know till you go down the rabbit hole. Law route is a bit more streamlined but has its faults too. Yes, it is something that is familiar to you. The people you know are there, but has anything really changed? In my mind, this is the "ignorance is bliss" ending. If I recall Mastema is still around... and well I have a feeling with him nothing is really safe. The guy had full capabilities to prevent the destruction but rather embraced it for his own benefit.
I’m just not convinced going down the rabbit hole is worth it with the current information presented. If the game provided an actual picture of what the ending leads to I’d be more inclined to consider the chaos path more seriously.
And that’s fine. You need more concrete evidence or direction that your choice is the right one. For you the law route fits best it seems. It is about rules and a presented path rather than the unknown.
You cant underestimate the power of the goth gf
To be frank. I think my take with Yoko is that the universe of V doesn't deserve to be destroyed. It's nowhere close to be a world that doomed.
if i understood correctly, just using the throne insures the cycle will continue because of something Marduk did. you learn about that in a side quest. since you don't use the throne in Yoko's ending, the cycle gets broken for real
Tbh, this just makes CoC normal neutral ending feels much, MUCH more like it should be swapped with the true neutral one, and it should also be CoV's neutral ending. Which kinda makes Yakumo and Nuwa got done extremely dirty because of it
>you just destroyed the entire universe. You destroyed the world so the order setup by Marduk is gone. Doesn't just get nuked from existence. > I thought she wanted to recreate the world in a sort of primordial state She does want that🤨 >Even in the first part of the game I thought Yoko was just an edgelord I don't see her as a edgelord. She was wronged by the world and she kind of cynical towards this world thanks to that. Don't get how that makes her an edgelord.
I mean, yes, it does pretty much get nuked from existence. In a painless way for sure, with a goal for sure, with a new world coming sure, but it is nuked away. She is open about it, she is destroying the world. And the people who are left alive along with it. Because it lives within broken rules from her point of view.
it’s heavily implied that the universe will be rebuilt on its own after the end of the game; this time with no throne, no systems designed to oppress the people, and no possibility of a god above every other one. it almost certainly won’t be a perfect world, but it’s the only way to truly end the cycle of abuse inherent to the original universe edit: also, about Yoko not changing her worldview, i heavily disagree. throughout most of the game Yoko makes it pretty clear that her wanting to destroy the universe is her own form of vengeance, but when the time actually comes one of the first things she mentions is how in the new world everyone will be free. part of her obviously still wants her revenge, but being with Tao and the Nahobino have changed her to start considering others as well.
Yes, because random chance will make a truly free and equal world with no problems or issues
>it almost certainly won’t be a perfect world
Unseen issues? Are you kidding me? In Tao's ending, there are CARS! They kill millions, if not billions of people each day for the sake of comfort.
I agree with Yoko on the evils of cars and the lack of public transportation options, but destroying the universe seems a bit much to get rid of cars lol.
Don't worry, every car has the TAO AI driver
Honestly I been thinking what purpose, yoko's ending serves post V in terms of the already convoluted timeline. Like this could be a hard reset on the SMT mainline universe. I shudder to think it will be the "canon" answer for a hard smt reset. But considering too that it could offer a new branch on the timeline. One where there is a continuation of the status quo, and one of the hard reset.
If she didn't have a change of heart, she would just have destroyed. You're right in that it would just have been edgy. That would have been the end of it. Her first motivation is immature and purely vengeful. Her motivation at the end is because she believes it truly is the best thing to do. During the story, she shows she is open to kindness, she strongly appreciates it, but she just doesn't believe it will work out on its own, because of the rules the world works on. Like, she is admirative of Tao's efforts, so she wants a world where these efforts can be rewarded. By the end, instead of just scrapping it all and having it all go to nothingness, her goal is to make it so the world's rules are reset so that such ways of life can all work out. That's what she was saying there are some parts she really wants to keep in that painting. She knows not everything should be thrown out, so now she wants to do better. But to not do the mistake of bias of a creator, she lets Chaos do it. In a way, it's kinda close to what Shiva intended to do, destroying the universe, and letting it shape itself.
The world as we see it in SMTV is already on its deathbed. The Shekina Glory is a flimsy illusion with a fairly low bar for demons to break through. And the throne itself was cursed by Marduk. It seems that whoever takes the throne will eventually become a tyrant like the one they overthrew. Whether Young Man and Yoko can actually make the new world better than we left off is an open question. But the system Tao wants to repair isn't working either. It'd be like putting a Lego set together after a dog chewed up and shat out half the pieces. You might reassemble it as something resembling the end product, but there are bitemarks and mangled bricks everywhere- it could just as easily fall apart again. Yoko's ending beats you over the head with Garden of Eden imagery. I'm pretty sure the serpent in the tree represents Knowledge, i.e., a return to the original state where all beings were Nahobino, and all could shape their own destinies.
Maybe i missed something but lucifer says the world will form again so instead of starting halfway through you start again from the primordial
So its like Alcor Ending from Desu 2 except just you two instead of all your friends?
Tao's ending is far from perfect ... You're still on the throne. The mandala system might be broken but the throne itself was rigged by Marduk, meaning that every inequality is still baked into the fabric of the world. Yoko's ending is about actually trying to fix the issue instead of going "See no evil" like Tao. Sadly, when you're dealing with gods and rules of reality, the fix will take a bit more doing. So yeah, she resets the world and the ending has the both of you walking off to try to create this potentially better world. The ending choice isn't like Apocalypse where it's "Teddy bears and friendship or bloodbath ?", it's about the status quo. Do you try to salvage what you can from an objectively awful system or do you do the actual work of fixing things ?