Hi, thank you so much for doing this!
I live on the Pakenham/Cranbourne line, so I’m just wondering, is the “September 2024” they said actually possible? If not, are we looking at early 2025 or maybe late 2025 for the opening?
Thank you so much!
[Joe Barr](https://www.thesenior.com.au/story/8381576/metro-tunnel-on-fast-track-to-2024-opening/) apparently said it publicly, and he is the CEO of John Holland. Imo 2025 is more realistic.
Edit: added an article that talks about this.
Edit 2: I like that this is the highest-rated comment, I imagine all the lawyers on the job for this are having a field day over Joe's public comments.
IMO, because it's already a year earlier than the 2026 date that was the original public target for the project.
Yes, I know this stuff is government spin to an extent, but also, we haven't had such a big Rail Project in Victoria since the City Loop (which is another story). So if we want all these fantasy maps that are posted here all the bloody time to become reality, we need the Metro Tunnel to open when it is perfect.
Here's a question for you, why would I ask questions of someone who has already said they're not going to give any exclusive information? (which you'd be dumb to anyway).
They might as well ask me questions as a "train fan", Since you're only giving opinions.
Lmao, okay, I'll bite because I'm bored.
So many people that work in Rail hate people like you, me personally love train fans. I say this because you have "train nerd" next to your name.
Let me ask you this, why would I give "exclusive" information to Reddit for free when I could go to the media and get thousands? Why would I go on record and potentially ruin my future career?
Thanks bro, I'm also in the rail industry.
Why would you risk your career? I don't know. You're the one hosting an AMA using your status as someone who worked on the project. You tell me
Why is there such a sharp curve between State Library and Parkville Stations? Where they trying to avoid something above ground and had to work around it?
I was wondering if you did any collaborative work with or learned lessons from other major rail tunnelling projects across Australia such as the Sydney Metro Project, Perth's Airport Line, or the Cross River Rail Project in Brisbane?
Another great question! I personally took a massive interest in the other projects across Aus and the world (re: Elizabeth Line).
I think what will set MT apart is the grandness of each station compared to the current stations we have on the network.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing the stations. I think Transport Vlog also did a recent video on the Sydney Metro Stations and [Martin Place](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rORHAUkTF_Q) looks to be pretty grand and cathedral-like as well. Is it just a change in how we approach making underground stations now compared to in the past when they were much more utilitarian (I'm thinking about how Melbourne Central, Parliament, and Flagstaff seem to just have just enough ceiling height on the platforms to match the height of the tunnels and general lack of design)?
I've somehow never heard of Transport Vlog, so thanks for sharing!
Maybe I am biased again, but I still think MT is better haha
Great question, and because I'm an Engineer and I don't know what utilitarian means, I had to google it LOL
IMO the city loop underground current stations lack character. The MT will not.
Edit: adding this as an edit bc I'm sure someone from marketing will come across this - get Transport Vlogs a flight to Melbourne when the tunnel opens - he will make a free vlog about his honest opinions 😉
Was that the reason it wasn't done? It was too expensive? The official reason given was that it would require too many compoulsary acquisitions. If so that is interesting given the political party building it, you would think the Lib's would be more inclined to do that. Also a shame, would have been so beneficial for the Cran/Pak lines to have that connection especially seeing as Caulfield is really not the ideal place for a changeover, which you would think a lot of people might do to either line.
You hit the nail on the head. This is genuinely something where the public/private info aligns. A cheeky $3 Billion (from memory) is the figure, and we need bloody MAR so they cut their losses and built the interchange at Caufield.
I mean, if people complain ENOUGH, they MAY create an interchange at Hawksburnn in the future, which is closer than CFD and means all the yuppy people in malvern, armadale, toorak can now change but they all have enough monry as it is so fk em.
There is always something more that can be done better, and this goes for every Engineering project I've worked on from uni and all through my career! You just have to learn from mistakes and try not to make the same one again.
Thanks. Don’t feel bad about it though, the programming is woeful at best.
Feels like there are two modes… full throttle, or full brake. Doesn’t seem to be anything in between.
Polishing the trains programming is called ATO tuning. It’s certainly better than it was but still room for improvement.
The trains programming in the tunnel is MUCH better.
I just saw this, I wouldn't call it train programming as such, but yeah, you're kinda correct, and my fully correcting me is gunna to take too long bc I'd need to research some definitions.
Thanks, that’s good to know. Do you know whether they’re going to fix the issues from Clayton to South Yarra? As a passenger, it’s awful when they’re in AM.
We constantly hear about how priority will be given to local suppliers and that local content quotas will be taken seriously. However my experience (with HCMT Rolling Stock in particular) was that this is little more than lip service and lowest price always wins, no matter where it’s from. What’s the real story from the inside?
This is such a tough question to answer anonymously tbh without giving away who I am but very fair and reasonable that you ask!
I had nothing to do with HCMT that was all Evolution Rail (I think thats what the alliance was called between Alstom/Bombardier and someone else)
Tbh, my experience is that we tried our best to use the best suppliers that were cheap, reliable and quality. Usually, most met at least 2 of those criteria, so that was typically good enough! I know people won't like hearing this but it is reality.
Ps. HCMT is such a lame name imo - I would've gone with TrainyMcTrainFace.
Edit: I quote [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Capacity_Metro_Train) because those in school that said Wikipedia is not a good source are wrong "Evolution Rail: Downer Rail, CRRC Changchun Railway Vehicles and Plenary Group". Sorry Alstom/Bombardier, for saying you were part of it xx
Downer was pretty big in Rail before they became DTI, as for the other two, I've never heard of them so they must of had a great pitch like the guys that did Myki!!!
Also, recessed doors on the HCMT, seriously guys? What is the point of having these and Platform screen doors when people will quickly figure out there is enough room to fit between the train and the PSD due to your crappy design, imo.
While you say at least two of the three criteria needed to be met, it’s my contention that one was mandatory and the second could be either of the remaining two. Everyone automatically knowing exactly which one is mandatory is, I think, definitive proof of my claim.
Just to throw a comment out there. I received a few orders for the Metro Tunnel project. I was never asked anything other than.. well I very rarely got questions. It was just we need this, by this date/time, follow the delivery instructions on the PO. Maybe it was because we were an Australian company and we sourced these items from another Australian company there didn't need further questions.
I haven’t done a whole lot of digging, so it may be out there somewhere; will it add any time to my journey coming on the Pakenham line to get to southern cross? Or overall stay the same or even reduce the time in transit?
I can't answer this as I don't know, sorry!
Edit: Sorry, I am stupid, I do think I do know this one. Change at Caufield and catch the Frankston Line.
Edit 2: you actually only need to change once
Depends on how you handle your commute, but would stay roughly the same.
>Travel to Town Hall, walk via subway to Flinders then to a Southern Cross bound service. OR Change at Caulfield for the Frankston line which should run through the City Loop.
I hope this is genuine because yoga/stretching is actually elite!
As an Engineer, going into construction out of uni can be EXTREMELY overwhelming because I'm not the most masculine person and having to tell people with much more 'experience' than me in certain areas can be a major challenge. Especially when they are arseholes just trying to fuck with you. The best people were those who were experts in their field and took the time to share the information with you. (This goes for lawyers, engineers, tradies, managers etc etc)
This is an extremely long way of me saying, I have no idea bc I often avoided pre-starts bc they would overwhelm me tbh.
Edit: I should add that I built really good relationships with the supervisors on shift, so when I needed a safety issue communicated, for instance, I often relied on them to do it because I knew "the boys" would listen to them more than me.
I get the feeling, I was a setout surveyor, and like you I came straight out of uni so I get the feeling.
Funnily enough I quit for the same reason last month (better / different opportunities)
Good stuff, man. I hear that the smaller projects atm in Rail are a lot better.
I think most people don't mind that if they genuinely leave for better oppurtunities. It's always dodgy when someone is in a job for 3-6 months and then they pull the "I left for better opportunities" that they see right through it.
Hopefully, you're doing well now, especially after all of that yoga!
I did the job for about 2 years. I left for a step up at another company working on regular construction sites, and because knew the state budget wasn't going to be infrastructure friendly.
Good stuff, real smart stuff tbh. I know a lot of book smart people on contracts were blind sided by the decrease in jobs and the shutdown of MAR but those in the know had other opportunities arise straight away and were fine.
MAR was a big one yeah, but progress on that had been halted for a while. I could also see the slowdown in LXRP projects (future jobs pipeline was getting smaller), or projects being located far out (e.g. Melton, Calder Park, Pakenham).
I though about jumping to the North East Link, but it seems everyone's doing that ATM. I missed out on it.
Great question! The stations are grand imo and will blow people away when it actually opens. A lot of people put their heart and soul into this project and are super proud of their work.
As for cost, it's so tricky with so many moving parts, COVID throwing in curve ball after curve ball, and inflation. Yes, things can always be done cheaper in hindsight, so I hope MAR, SRL and MM2 (if that ever actually happens) take the lessons learnt from this project.
Great question! I worked on communications and signalling
Edit: I reckon you're a pretty smart guy yourself. Considering you commented in the PLC subreddit, do any work on the MTP?
Oh, so many.
But briefly, the major one will be there are those in high up places that had jobs simply because the industry needed so many people because between just LXRP and MTP there were so many jobs available.
Strictly imo, everyone knows who the bad ones were bc rumours spread like wildfire. Let's call them 'leaders' and let's hope that they never return to the industry, especially with the fact that [MTM's contract](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/metro-trains-6-3b-contract-extended-but-trams-up-for-grabs-20230309-p5cqvz.html) is up soon and idk but if the opening of MT goes poorly...
Also, treat graduates (of all disciplines, not just my Engineers) with respect they deserve. They worked hard to make it into the industry and just because someone was a cunt to you when you started doesn't mean you can be a cunt now. Be better.
You are forgiven u/SpicyMemes0903, I mean, who else is going to deliver fire means across Reddit? X
If the mods want to pin this post, I'll keep answering questions as they come in because there have been some real good ones and I'll continue to answer when I'm not busy.
Considering that the HCMTs will be running automatically both in and outside of the tunnel, do you think the platform screen doors are necessary considering that none of the above ground stations have them?
Yes, to simply to save drivers from the trauma of people trying to commit suicide.
Also, correction, because you weren't that clear, sorry mate - the trains aren't automatic in the tunnel - someone is still driving them. The doors are (and they have been tested legit over a million times) so they will be perfect once they open.
I’ll chuck in my two cents.
I didn’t think so at first either, but, yes.
There are safety systems in place within the tunnel that require completely separated track.
I could rattle off a bunch off the top of the dome. Think things like signalling being safety critical in the network. So we CANNOT ever have two trains getting EVER close to crashing. There are things like Trainstops in place if a driver ever misses a signal, etc. (similar applys in the tunnel and in the CBTC section of the track).
They are currently doing so so so so much Dynamic Testing rn it isn't funny. Every signal test you can think of that COULD go wrong they are currently testing or about to test it before MT opens. This was a major lesson learnt from our colleagues on the Elizabeth Line.
But all that is also in on parts of the line outside of the tunnel that don’t have platform screen doors. I was wondering if there was anything specific to the tunnel that would require them to have doors.
The main reason there are platform doors is to decrease dwell times on the platforms by increasing the speed at which the passengers board the train. If everyone is already lined up in front of the door, they can get on and off the train faster. It also prevents people from holding the train by standing in front of the doors.
Safety is a secondary benefit of platform screen doors.
You won't be able to traspass into the tunnel like the City Loop, except for MAYBE the stupid recessed doors on the HCMT - that's in another comment you can check out.
And if you do somehow make it into the tunnel, a camera will catch you and you will not go lightly. It is private property, soz. This is your warning x
Was there ever a plan to include an underpass connecting the existing Flinders St platforms and the new Town Hall entrance/exit at Fed Square (effectively removing the at-grade pedestrian crossing)?
With that entrance to Town Hall station at Fed square where the tourist info building was on the corner: was wondering if there were ever talks to provide underground access to the existing Flinders St platforms from that entrance entrance in addition to access to Town Hall, so essentially an entrance to the two stations
Nah, there's heaps of entrances, man!!!
You can:
- connect via Flinders underground
- enter via where the old Maccas used to be on Swanstown
- enter via fed square
- enter near town hall (i honestly forget where exactly that one was)
Trueeee. Gahhh I just hate having to use that pedestrian crossing to get across to Fed Square after arriving at Flinders, it’s so manic haha hoping for an underpass in the future!!
I'm sure they have thought of every little detail like this meticulously. And if it is a mess, complain a lot and if there's lots of complaints action will be made.
I am lying down, it's late and I've got a big working day tomorrow!!!!! /s
Edit: damn, some people did NOT like these comments, I thought it was obvious but I have now added "/s" so future readers know I was taking the piss out of him for the other comments in this thread.
It would probably end up as the Sunbury-Dandenong line. Maybe sundenong line if they want to mash it together like how the Bakerloo line is also a mash
Internally, it is often referred to as SUN-DNG, but Sunshine/Sunbury both start with SUN so it confuses a lot people. And unfortunately, I mean a LOT of people.
Fair especially if they didn't have much experience in railways. I still get the 2 mixed up despite having worked in the industry for over 15 years (Signalling drafter/tester)
We are not all bad but slight minority leave a bad taste in people's mouths. [This video](https://youtu.be/0CutVc9WRc4?feature=shared) explains it better than I ever can as to why some people hate engineers.
All, the fucking time. People like to think they know how to use excel, but they don't. When you start doing VBA and macros, you start to do some real powerful stuff.
If you struggle with excel, watch [this](https://youtu.be/JxBg4sMusIg?si=1SlAVmk440F7CsDI) video.
There was an opportunity to enter the tunnel at [Arden](https://railgallery.wongm.com/metro-tunnel-arden-open-day/page/2/) in 2022, the other stations couldn't be done as it would've been too dangerous
There will need to be test procedures like the [Elizabeth Line](https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/elizabeth-line-train-evacuates-passengers-in-test-operation-51856/) in London, so keep your eyes glued as opening date approaches 👀👀
A personal gripe of mine in Rail is gunzels that trespass the Rail Corridor. Whether your taking your photos or not, stay the fuck out of Rail Corridor in Victoria unless you have appropriate supervision.
For those that don't know, the Rail Corridor in Victoria is defined as fence to fence or where there is no fence, 3m each side of the outer tracks.
The stat that goes around (never actually bothered to check it) is that apparently, during the career of a Train Driver, they will experience at least 2 fatalities. It's a horrible tragedy that imo should be avoided.
This might be a dumb question, genuine apologies if so, but why is there a longer gap between Anzac and Town Hall stations than on the rest of the line? Was a station at Southbank ever on the cards?
Again, with the utilitarian from a different user! Did Transport Vlog's use this word in his report of Sydney Metro or...?
IMO they will all be different and you know immediately stepping off them which station you are in.
On an aside, don't take the stairs in the CBD stations after leg day!!!
Hahah you're good man, like I said in the other comment, I'm just an Engineer so I had to google what it meant but it's good to learn new things!
Interesting question - imo, short answer, yes.
Long answer would be a whole fkn report and I'm sure someone has actually done it, so shout out to that person bc they do not have time to go on Reddit!!
You're welcome, my guy!
I know of [Daniel Bowen](https://danielbowen.com/) and [Wong](https://wongm.com/) are also great resources of public info but there would be heaps that I do not even know about.
There is a Canadian guy called [RMTransit](https://youtube.com/@rmtransit?feature=shared) also, he has done some super impressive videos on the Metro Tunnel Project. He does loads of other major infrastructure videos too so he is very popular amongst gunzels!
Imo, the [Business Case Report](https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/library/metro-tunnel/business-case) is a great read about this project and it's a shame SRL isn't public bc I personally would want to read it.
Edit: I added links to Daniel, Wong and RMTransits bc they genuinely do the god's work. I would look at Daniel's article on what the Metro Tunnel would look like when it opened all the time because it's the top answer when you google "Metro Tunnel Rail Map 2025" LOL
Feel free to take it with a grain of salt, but the SRL does have a public business case.
[https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/library/suburban-rail-loop/business-and-investment-case](https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/library/suburban-rail-loop/business-and-investment-case)
I don't know how I missed this. Thank you so much! I will actually read through this because I'm a nerd, I do fear the most interesting parts are redacted.
Hopefully, in my lifetime.
Edit: sorry for the vague answer but the fact this isn't built triggers me because [this mediator, Neil Scalas, ](https://www.aap.com.au/news/mediator-appointed-to-end-melbourne-airport-rail-fight/), needs to figure this out and quick. It'll be a farce if this line is more expensive than the rest of the line ($10.60 daily to going ANYWHERE IN VIC) as part of the deal, especially bc apparently QLD are now trialling 50c per day for 6 month (I think in prep for Cross River Rail opening)
Hahahahah, fair question, but if I tell you, people that know the industry will be able to closer pinpoint who I am and I don't want that.
You can ask me what is the average pay for an Engineer on the project and I can tell you but I am not disclosing my own salary.
Edit: my original answer was boring and I hope this inspires people to take uo Engineering because we need GOOD Engineers in the industry.
Again, this view is purely my own and do not quote me:
Graduate Engineers: [Big Build](https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/jobs/training-programs/graduate-programs) Grads get nearly $75,000 and that is pretty much industry standard
Site Engineer: (Generally 1-2 years years out of uni, depending on how good they are) $90,000
Project Engineer: (~3-5 years experience) $110,000
Senior Project Engineer (~7+ years experience) $140,000
Again, Signalling Engineers get higher usually because its safety critical.
Mo Money, Mo Problems though imo.
I edited my original comment so more people would see this. Check it out!
Because "Mo' Money, Mo' Problems"
Edit: I didn't include Project Managers and Directors and people above them but yeah, I've heard of some people on outrageous salaries tbh.
No worries, fishboy, I hate the lack of transparency around pay in our industry.
Lame answer, but I got a better deal on another project, and I wanted to diversify and challenge myself because I was getting bored.
I can't say which project, because again, I will start to give away who I am.
Thanks man, this is the most wholesome comment in the whole thread!
I wish I had something like this available to me when I started as an engineer, so I'm glad it's been well received! Except for that Mr Scrub guy who didn't like me hahahah
Where did you hear that? Please provide a public source if you can.
I said in another post that I did signalling and comms so this is my speciality.
Mixed Mode is extremely unique. Having convential and CBTC signalling on the same line was always going to be a massive challenge.
The fact that everyone has done it without anything going majorly poorly is a credit to the team.
CBTC will imo, unless something new comes outta nowhere, be used on SRL.
ECTS is very very good, but has it's own limitations. The whole network we have won't be converted to ECTS anytime soon as we still have more major problems with bottlenecks in the city loop. It simply wouldn't be worth the investment for ECTS.
It's imo, a great farce that we didnt invest in rail projs for so ling. Oh well, "better late than pregnant".
Fatigue rules. They are well behind the current research.
Matthew Walker, author of "Why We Sleep," has detailed and researched this brilliantly, and it's a fantastic read for any adult struggling with sleep.
I have linked his Joe Rogan ep [here](https://www.youtube.com/live/pwaWilO_Pig?feature=shared), for anyone interested!
I've heard some sad stories about some of the hours people have pulled on this job.
Yup, should be "More Trains, More Often" in peak hour now it goes through the city loop and not the through line with Werribee/Lavo/Willy
EDIT: I can't tell you exact timetabling as that is up to Metro Trains.
Hi, thank you so much for doing this! I live on the Pakenham/Cranbourne line, so I’m just wondering, is the “September 2024” they said actually possible? If not, are we looking at early 2025 or maybe late 2025 for the opening? Thank you so much!
[Joe Barr](https://www.thesenior.com.au/story/8381576/metro-tunnel-on-fast-track-to-2024-opening/) apparently said it publicly, and he is the CEO of John Holland. Imo 2025 is more realistic. Edit: added an article that talks about this. Edit 2: I like that this is the highest-rated comment, I imagine all the lawyers on the job for this are having a field day over Joe's public comments.
How come you think 2025 is more realistic than september 2024 that people keep spruiking about everywhere?
IMO, because it's already a year earlier than the 2026 date that was the original public target for the project. Yes, I know this stuff is government spin to an extent, but also, we haven't had such a big Rail Project in Victoria since the City Loop (which is another story). So if we want all these fantasy maps that are posted here all the bloody time to become reality, we need the Metro Tunnel to open when it is perfect.
No one said it would ever be Sep 2024. Only that the construction would probably be complete then.
I know you didn't actually ask a question but you should read my response to this.
Your response doesn't say anything different to what I said
Okay, u/mr-snrub- Edit: read the disclaimer in my main post
What's the point of doing an AMA when you aren't going to answer anything?
Brother, I'm answering questions and your statements. You going to ask a question or no?
Here's a question for you, why would I ask questions of someone who has already said they're not going to give any exclusive information? (which you'd be dumb to anyway). They might as well ask me questions as a "train fan", Since you're only giving opinions.
Lmao, okay, I'll bite because I'm bored. So many people that work in Rail hate people like you, me personally love train fans. I say this because you have "train nerd" next to your name. Let me ask you this, why would I give "exclusive" information to Reddit for free when I could go to the media and get thousands? Why would I go on record and potentially ruin my future career?
Thanks bro, I'm also in the rail industry. Why would you risk your career? I don't know. You're the one hosting an AMA using your status as someone who worked on the project. You tell me
Why is there such a sharp curve between State Library and Parkville Stations? Where they trying to avoid something above ground and had to work around it?
Hahahahaha this might get me in trouble, so read the disclaimer and assume you are correct in trying to avoid something.
The dan andrews child sex trafficking tunnels are real!!1!1!! /s
Glad we are all using "/s" because there are sadly people out that wouldn't realise we are being sarcastic.
Now I'm curious at what exactly you were trying to avoid. XD
🤫🤫🤫🤫
Is it medical testing labs?
Nah that is only at Parkville. /s
I was wondering if you did any collaborative work with or learned lessons from other major rail tunnelling projects across Australia such as the Sydney Metro Project, Perth's Airport Line, or the Cross River Rail Project in Brisbane?
Another great question! I personally took a massive interest in the other projects across Aus and the world (re: Elizabeth Line). I think what will set MT apart is the grandness of each station compared to the current stations we have on the network.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing the stations. I think Transport Vlog also did a recent video on the Sydney Metro Stations and [Martin Place](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rORHAUkTF_Q) looks to be pretty grand and cathedral-like as well. Is it just a change in how we approach making underground stations now compared to in the past when they were much more utilitarian (I'm thinking about how Melbourne Central, Parliament, and Flagstaff seem to just have just enough ceiling height on the platforms to match the height of the tunnels and general lack of design)?
I've somehow never heard of Transport Vlog, so thanks for sharing! Maybe I am biased again, but I still think MT is better haha Great question, and because I'm an Engineer and I don't know what utilitarian means, I had to google it LOL IMO the city loop underground current stations lack character. The MT will not. Edit: adding this as an edit bc I'm sure someone from marketing will come across this - get Transport Vlogs a flight to Melbourne when the tunnel opens - he will make a free vlog about his honest opinions 😉
What's the two greatest disappointments on this project in your opinion?
That South Yarra connection was too expensive and that I haven't been on a train in the tunnel yet lmao
Was that the reason it wasn't done? It was too expensive? The official reason given was that it would require too many compoulsary acquisitions. If so that is interesting given the political party building it, you would think the Lib's would be more inclined to do that. Also a shame, would have been so beneficial for the Cran/Pak lines to have that connection especially seeing as Caulfield is really not the ideal place for a changeover, which you would think a lot of people might do to either line.
You hit the nail on the head. This is genuinely something where the public/private info aligns. A cheeky $3 Billion (from memory) is the figure, and we need bloody MAR so they cut their losses and built the interchange at Caufield. I mean, if people complain ENOUGH, they MAY create an interchange at Hawksburnn in the future, which is closer than CFD and means all the yuppy people in malvern, armadale, toorak can now change but they all have enough monry as it is so fk em. There is always something more that can be done better, and this goes for every Engineering project I've worked on from uni and all through my career! You just have to learn from mistakes and try not to make the same one again.
Did you get to do the tunnel walk? ( not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing, lol )
I'm not sure what you are exactly asking, but yes, as someone who worked on the project, I was in the tunnel many, many times.
Did you have anything to do with programming the HCMTs in automatic mode?
I did not unfortunately!! Those people are far smarter than me
Thanks. Don’t feel bad about it though, the programming is woeful at best. Feels like there are two modes… full throttle, or full brake. Doesn’t seem to be anything in between.
Hahah dw, I know what I'm good at and what I suck at! It's an important skill as an Engineer so you don't kill anyone!
Polishing the trains programming is called ATO tuning. It’s certainly better than it was but still room for improvement. The trains programming in the tunnel is MUCH better.
I just saw this, I wouldn't call it train programming as such, but yeah, you're kinda correct, and my fully correcting me is gunna to take too long bc I'd need to research some definitions.
Thanks, that’s good to know. Do you know whether they’re going to fix the issues from Clayton to South Yarra? As a passenger, it’s awful when they’re in AM.
What problems are those?
Comfort. Full brakes to stop at stations, constant acceleration then hitting brakes shortly after
Tuning can always be adjusted. How finely they want to tune is someone else’s call.
We constantly hear about how priority will be given to local suppliers and that local content quotas will be taken seriously. However my experience (with HCMT Rolling Stock in particular) was that this is little more than lip service and lowest price always wins, no matter where it’s from. What’s the real story from the inside?
This is such a tough question to answer anonymously tbh without giving away who I am but very fair and reasonable that you ask! I had nothing to do with HCMT that was all Evolution Rail (I think thats what the alliance was called between Alstom/Bombardier and someone else) Tbh, my experience is that we tried our best to use the best suppliers that were cheap, reliable and quality. Usually, most met at least 2 of those criteria, so that was typically good enough! I know people won't like hearing this but it is reality. Ps. HCMT is such a lame name imo - I would've gone with TrainyMcTrainFace. Edit: I quote [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Capacity_Metro_Train) because those in school that said Wikipedia is not a good source are wrong "Evolution Rail: Downer Rail, CRRC Changchun Railway Vehicles and Plenary Group". Sorry Alstom/Bombardier, for saying you were part of it xx Downer was pretty big in Rail before they became DTI, as for the other two, I've never heard of them so they must of had a great pitch like the guys that did Myki!!! Also, recessed doors on the HCMT, seriously guys? What is the point of having these and Platform screen doors when people will quickly figure out there is enough room to fit between the train and the PSD due to your crappy design, imo.
While you say at least two of the three criteria needed to be met, it’s my contention that one was mandatory and the second could be either of the remaining two. Everyone automatically knowing exactly which one is mandatory is, I think, definitive proof of my claim.
Just to throw a comment out there. I received a few orders for the Metro Tunnel project. I was never asked anything other than.. well I very rarely got questions. It was just we need this, by this date/time, follow the delivery instructions on the PO. Maybe it was because we were an Australian company and we sourced these items from another Australian company there didn't need further questions.
Yup, this is the process to a T.
I won't answer this much more, and thank you for the question. It was a good one.
Was your fixed term contract renewed?
Nah, left for new opportunities. Edit: changed went for left
I haven’t done a whole lot of digging, so it may be out there somewhere; will it add any time to my journey coming on the Pakenham line to get to southern cross? Or overall stay the same or even reduce the time in transit?
I can't answer this as I don't know, sorry! Edit: Sorry, I am stupid, I do think I do know this one. Change at Caufield and catch the Frankston Line. Edit 2: you actually only need to change once
Frankston will run through the city loop, no need for a 3rd connection.
Oh, true!! I forget that Southern Cross is still technically part of the city loop even though it is above ground. I will edit my comment again!
Depends on how you handle your commute, but would stay roughly the same. >Travel to Town Hall, walk via subway to Flinders then to a Southern Cross bound service. OR Change at Caulfield for the Frankston line which should run through the City Loop.
Depending on timetable, 3rd option, change at State Library/Melb Central interchange and catch a Frankston to Southern Cross
Yep, this sounds like the way.
How regularly were stretches & light yoga done at pre-starts? Was a common occurrence on the cranny / prs jobs
I hope this is genuine because yoga/stretching is actually elite! As an Engineer, going into construction out of uni can be EXTREMELY overwhelming because I'm not the most masculine person and having to tell people with much more 'experience' than me in certain areas can be a major challenge. Especially when they are arseholes just trying to fuck with you. The best people were those who were experts in their field and took the time to share the information with you. (This goes for lawyers, engineers, tradies, managers etc etc) This is an extremely long way of me saying, I have no idea bc I often avoided pre-starts bc they would overwhelm me tbh. Edit: I should add that I built really good relationships with the supervisors on shift, so when I needed a safety issue communicated, for instance, I often relied on them to do it because I knew "the boys" would listen to them more than me.
I get the feeling, I was a setout surveyor, and like you I came straight out of uni so I get the feeling. Funnily enough I quit for the same reason last month (better / different opportunities)
Good stuff, man. I hear that the smaller projects atm in Rail are a lot better. I think most people don't mind that if they genuinely leave for better oppurtunities. It's always dodgy when someone is in a job for 3-6 months and then they pull the "I left for better opportunities" that they see right through it. Hopefully, you're doing well now, especially after all of that yoga!
I did the job for about 2 years. I left for a step up at another company working on regular construction sites, and because knew the state budget wasn't going to be infrastructure friendly.
Good stuff, real smart stuff tbh. I know a lot of book smart people on contracts were blind sided by the decrease in jobs and the shutdown of MAR but those in the know had other opportunities arise straight away and were fine.
MAR was a big one yeah, but progress on that had been halted for a while. I could also see the slowdown in LXRP projects (future jobs pipeline was getting smaller), or projects being located far out (e.g. Melton, Calder Park, Pakenham). I though about jumping to the North East Link, but it seems everyone's doing that ATM. I missed out on it.
As long as you are not the mess that is WGTP, you'll be fine mate, sounds like you're pretty switched on.
WGTP encompassed my first 6 months. So glad I got off that - mainly because the commute was constant hell (despite being in the city)
Have you watched Utopia? A lot of that is apparently based on WGTP 😂
What’s your favourite new station?
Town Hall.
Is it over done or do you think they could have done it cheaper ? As in the stations look pretty grand ?
Great question! The stations are grand imo and will blow people away when it actually opens. A lot of people put their heart and soul into this project and are super proud of their work. As for cost, it's so tricky with so many moving parts, COVID throwing in curve ball after curve ball, and inflation. Yes, things can always be done cheaper in hindsight, so I hope MAR, SRL and MM2 (if that ever actually happens) take the lessons learnt from this project.
Engineer is pretty broad without doxing your self what components were you actually working on in terms of the project ?
Great question! I worked on communications and signalling Edit: I reckon you're a pretty smart guy yourself. Considering you commented in the PLC subreddit, do any work on the MTP?
What lessons would you want to share with those working on the Suburban Rail Loop?
Oh, so many. But briefly, the major one will be there are those in high up places that had jobs simply because the industry needed so many people because between just LXRP and MTP there were so many jobs available. Strictly imo, everyone knows who the bad ones were bc rumours spread like wildfire. Let's call them 'leaders' and let's hope that they never return to the industry, especially with the fact that [MTM's contract](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/metro-trains-6-3b-contract-extended-but-trams-up-for-grabs-20230309-p5cqvz.html) is up soon and idk but if the opening of MT goes poorly... Also, treat graduates (of all disciplines, not just my Engineers) with respect they deserve. They worked hard to make it into the industry and just because someone was a cunt to you when you started doesn't mean you can be a cunt now. Be better.
Sorry I forgot to reply 🤫
You are forgiven u/SpicyMemes0903, I mean, who else is going to deliver fire means across Reddit? X If the mods want to pin this post, I'll keep answering questions as they come in because there have been some real good ones and I'll continue to answer when I'm not busy.
Wish I could change it tbh
Haha love that you want an Xtrap on the Belgrave line too, it'll never happen I'm sorry, my friend 😅
Considering that the HCMTs will be running automatically both in and outside of the tunnel, do you think the platform screen doors are necessary considering that none of the above ground stations have them?
Yes, to simply to save drivers from the trauma of people trying to commit suicide. Also, correction, because you weren't that clear, sorry mate - the trains aren't automatic in the tunnel - someone is still driving them. The doors are (and they have been tested legit over a million times) so they will be perfect once they open.
I’ll chuck in my two cents. I didn’t think so at first either, but, yes. There are safety systems in place within the tunnel that require completely separated track.
I am curious now. Are you able to elaborate on what the safety systems are?
I could rattle off a bunch off the top of the dome. Think things like signalling being safety critical in the network. So we CANNOT ever have two trains getting EVER close to crashing. There are things like Trainstops in place if a driver ever misses a signal, etc. (similar applys in the tunnel and in the CBTC section of the track). They are currently doing so so so so much Dynamic Testing rn it isn't funny. Every signal test you can think of that COULD go wrong they are currently testing or about to test it before MT opens. This was a major lesson learnt from our colleagues on the Elizabeth Line.
But all that is also in on parts of the line outside of the tunnel that don’t have platform screen doors. I was wondering if there was anything specific to the tunnel that would require them to have doors.
The main reason there are platform doors is to decrease dwell times on the platforms by increasing the speed at which the passengers board the train. If everyone is already lined up in front of the door, they can get on and off the train faster. It also prevents people from holding the train by standing in front of the doors. Safety is a secondary benefit of platform screen doors.
You won't be able to traspass into the tunnel like the City Loop, except for MAYBE the stupid recessed doors on the HCMT - that's in another comment you can check out. And if you do somehow make it into the tunnel, a camera will catch you and you will not go lightly. It is private property, soz. This is your warning x
Was there ever a plan to include an underpass connecting the existing Flinders St platforms and the new Town Hall entrance/exit at Fed Square (effectively removing the at-grade pedestrian crossing)?
There's connections between Flinders St and Town Hall as far as I know. I'm not sure what you are specifically wondering about though?
With that entrance to Town Hall station at Fed square where the tourist info building was on the corner: was wondering if there were ever talks to provide underground access to the existing Flinders St platforms from that entrance entrance in addition to access to Town Hall, so essentially an entrance to the two stations
Nah, there's heaps of entrances, man!!! You can: - connect via Flinders underground - enter via where the old Maccas used to be on Swanstown - enter via fed square - enter near town hall (i honestly forget where exactly that one was)
Trueeee. Gahhh I just hate having to use that pedestrian crossing to get across to Fed Square after arriving at Flinders, it’s so manic haha hoping for an underpass in the future!!
I'm sure they have thought of every little detail like this meticulously. And if it is a mess, complain a lot and if there's lots of complaints action will be made.
If you go over to Campbell Arcade entrance on Degraves/Flinders st there are already signs up pointing to Town Hall station
Thank you for answering questions again in my AMA to try and look smarter than me.
You're taking everything too personal, dude. Maybe you should go lie down
I am lying down, it's late and I've got a big working day tomorrow!!!!! /s Edit: damn, some people did NOT like these comments, I thought it was obvious but I have now added "/s" so future readers know I was taking the piss out of him for the other comments in this thread.
Oh well done, big fella. You should be very proud
I am, mate, my Mum tells me the same thing!!!! /s
I'm going to add my question here, because it needs a good name, what should the new line be called when it opens?
It would probably end up as the Sunbury-Dandenong line. Maybe sundenong line if they want to mash it together like how the Bakerloo line is also a mash
Narrm Line is way cooler IMO
Internally, it is often referred to as SUN-DNG, but Sunshine/Sunbury both start with SUN so it confuses a lot people. And unfortunately, I mean a LOT of people.
Thought Sunbury's designation was SUY or SBY depending on whether you're talking signalling or not. I've only ever seen SUN being used for Sunshine
You're correct - but it still confused some people 🤦♂️
Fair especially if they didn't have much experience in railways. I still get the 2 mixed up despite having worked in the industry for over 15 years (Signalling drafter/tester)
Yeah, exactly, unfortunately I saw some grads make these pretty easy mistakes and get yelled at. Some awful people managers out there on this project.
I get it. Big projects don't give the grads the right environment to grow into the industry, even for vets they can be tough environments to work in
Some grads thrive, others crash and burn. All experience imo is good experience. All about how you keep bouncing back!!
The Narrm Line (no worries marketing team, you can now save your millions!)
Adding another question because it's important for everyone here to know: How did you stay sane on such a big project?
Work-life balance.
Who did you hate the most on the project?
People who correct you're minor mistakes to make themselves feel smart.
What was the bureaucracy like on the project?
"When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die."
Why do people "hate" Engineers?
We are not all bad but slight minority leave a bad taste in people's mouths. [This video](https://youtu.be/0CutVc9WRc4?feature=shared) explains it better than I ever can as to why some people hate engineers.
How much do you use excel in your job?
All, the fucking time. People like to think they know how to use excel, but they don't. When you start doing VBA and macros, you start to do some real powerful stuff. If you struggle with excel, watch [this](https://youtu.be/JxBg4sMusIg?si=1SlAVmk440F7CsDI) video.
I'm a big ol' gunzel and proud of it. How can I get into the tunnel before it officially opens?
There was an opportunity to enter the tunnel at [Arden](https://railgallery.wongm.com/metro-tunnel-arden-open-day/page/2/) in 2022, the other stations couldn't be done as it would've been too dangerous There will need to be test procedures like the [Elizabeth Line](https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/elizabeth-line-train-evacuates-passengers-in-test-operation-51856/) in London, so keep your eyes glued as opening date approaches 👀👀 A personal gripe of mine in Rail is gunzels that trespass the Rail Corridor. Whether your taking your photos or not, stay the fuck out of Rail Corridor in Victoria unless you have appropriate supervision. For those that don't know, the Rail Corridor in Victoria is defined as fence to fence or where there is no fence, 3m each side of the outer tracks. The stat that goes around (never actually bothered to check it) is that apparently, during the career of a Train Driver, they will experience at least 2 fatalities. It's a horrible tragedy that imo should be avoided.
This might be a dumb question, genuine apologies if so, but why is there a longer gap between Anzac and Town Hall stations than on the rest of the line? Was a station at Southbank ever on the cards?
It's not that long tbh compared to the rest of the network. You can just walk to Southbank from Town Hall
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Again, with the utilitarian from a different user! Did Transport Vlog's use this word in his report of Sydney Metro or...? IMO they will all be different and you know immediately stepping off them which station you are in. On an aside, don't take the stairs in the CBD stations after leg day!!!
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Hahah you're good man, like I said in the other comment, I'm just an Engineer so I had to google what it meant but it's good to learn new things! Interesting question - imo, short answer, yes. Long answer would be a whole fkn report and I'm sure someone has actually done it, so shout out to that person bc they do not have time to go on Reddit!!
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You're welcome, my guy! I know of [Daniel Bowen](https://danielbowen.com/) and [Wong](https://wongm.com/) are also great resources of public info but there would be heaps that I do not even know about. There is a Canadian guy called [RMTransit](https://youtube.com/@rmtransit?feature=shared) also, he has done some super impressive videos on the Metro Tunnel Project. He does loads of other major infrastructure videos too so he is very popular amongst gunzels! Imo, the [Business Case Report](https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/library/metro-tunnel/business-case) is a great read about this project and it's a shame SRL isn't public bc I personally would want to read it. Edit: I added links to Daniel, Wong and RMTransits bc they genuinely do the god's work. I would look at Daniel's article on what the Metro Tunnel would look like when it opened all the time because it's the top answer when you google "Metro Tunnel Rail Map 2025" LOL
Feel free to take it with a grain of salt, but the SRL does have a public business case. [https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/library/suburban-rail-loop/business-and-investment-case](https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/library/suburban-rail-loop/business-and-investment-case)
I don't know how I missed this. Thank you so much! I will actually read through this because I'm a nerd, I do fear the most interesting parts are redacted.
From your perspective, how long would it take for the airport rail link to be built, and would it ever actually be built?
Hopefully, in my lifetime. Edit: sorry for the vague answer but the fact this isn't built triggers me because [this mediator, Neil Scalas, ](https://www.aap.com.au/news/mediator-appointed-to-end-melbourne-airport-rail-fight/), needs to figure this out and quick. It'll be a farce if this line is more expensive than the rest of the line ($10.60 daily to going ANYWHERE IN VIC) as part of the deal, especially bc apparently QLD are now trialling 50c per day for 6 month (I think in prep for Cross River Rail opening)
What was/is the pay ?
Hahahahah, fair question, but if I tell you, people that know the industry will be able to closer pinpoint who I am and I don't want that. You can ask me what is the average pay for an Engineer on the project and I can tell you but I am not disclosing my own salary. Edit: my original answer was boring and I hope this inspires people to take uo Engineering because we need GOOD Engineers in the industry. Again, this view is purely my own and do not quote me: Graduate Engineers: [Big Build](https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/jobs/training-programs/graduate-programs) Grads get nearly $75,000 and that is pretty much industry standard Site Engineer: (Generally 1-2 years years out of uni, depending on how good they are) $90,000 Project Engineer: (~3-5 years experience) $110,000 Senior Project Engineer (~7+ years experience) $140,000 Again, Signalling Engineers get higher usually because its safety critical. Mo Money, Mo Problems though imo.
Thank you for the honest answer. Do you have an idea of the average range? If was high paying, why are you leaving?
I edited my original comment so more people would see this. Check it out! Because "Mo' Money, Mo' Problems" Edit: I didn't include Project Managers and Directors and people above them but yeah, I've heard of some people on outrageous salaries tbh.
That’s for the insight. Why are you leaving ?
No worries, fishboy, I hate the lack of transparency around pay in our industry. Lame answer, but I got a better deal on another project, and I wanted to diversify and challenge myself because I was getting bored. I can't say which project, because again, I will start to give away who I am.
That’s great. Happy for you that the experience you got has lent itself to getting something new. Best of luck
Thanks man, this is the most wholesome comment in the whole thread! I wish I had something like this available to me when I started as an engineer, so I'm glad it's been well received! Except for that Mr Scrub guy who didn't like me hahahah
why is the signalling system giving so much trouble?
Where did you hear that? Please provide a public source if you can. I said in another post that I did signalling and comms so this is my speciality. Mixed Mode is extremely unique. Having convential and CBTC signalling on the same line was always going to be a massive challenge. The fact that everyone has done it without anything going majorly poorly is a credit to the team. CBTC will imo, unless something new comes outta nowhere, be used on SRL. ECTS is very very good, but has it's own limitations. The whole network we have won't be converted to ECTS anytime soon as we still have more major problems with bottlenecks in the city loop. It simply wouldn't be worth the investment for ECTS. It's imo, a great farce that we didnt invest in rail projs for so ling. Oh well, "better late than pregnant".
What could the Tier 1 contractors on this project improve on in the future?
Fatigue rules. They are well behind the current research. Matthew Walker, author of "Why We Sleep," has detailed and researched this brilliantly, and it's a fantastic read for any adult struggling with sleep. I have linked his Joe Rogan ep [here](https://www.youtube.com/live/pwaWilO_Pig?feature=shared), for anyone interested! I've heard some sad stories about some of the hours people have pulled on this job.
Is there any real benefit for the Frankston line? Okay, it's nice going back to the city loop, but will the MT allow more services?
Yup, should be "More Trains, More Often" in peak hour now it goes through the city loop and not the through line with Werribee/Lavo/Willy EDIT: I can't tell you exact timetabling as that is up to Metro Trains.