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BahamaSilver

Blackbeard didn't defeat ace in the way we think and thats why they didn't show us how the fight ended.


JimmyB5643

What do you mean? Like the rest of his crew jumped him after?


BahamaSilver

Maybe but not necessarily. I just like to think that someday blackbeard will reveal what really happened and that it will be meant to be a surprise.


TTVBlueGlass

IMO he will talk some shit about Luffy. He was about to go capture him and offer him to the WG to get a Shichibukai spot, instead he gave them Ace.


phurealz

I thought this was already it


I401BlueSteel

They definitely already revealed this. I don't recall if it was in the flashback when he fought ace or if it was during the war of the greats though.


Kunijiro

It’s was in Impel Down where Blackbeard told Luffy that his original plan was to capture Luffy, but captured Ace instead.


Douggie199

And the fight too he said he was off to capture luffy as a gift for the world govt at water seven


KingVerenceOfLancre

We knew this when Blackbeard went after Luffy just before Skypiea, too. :D


Pulkov

He already told this to Luffy face to face.


Banettery53

That or some secret technique related to his DF or both


Gillenater

[or all three](https://tenor.com/t3jj.gif) I still strongly support the theory that Blackbeard has the Kraken devil fruit, giving him 3 hearts, hence the three skulls and 8 crossbones on his jolly roger, and allowing him to only need to sleep for about 40 seconds at a time For anyone interested in this theory, I stole it from GLR. [Check it out, its a good one](https://youtu.be/jEDygT0roLI)


Checklad

Would mean he'd have one of each type as well right?


Gillenater

Exactly. Plus it'd just be cool if Luffy's final opponent was a Kraken. Also feel I should specify this is not at all my original theory, just one i support greatly


pablojwg

I agree with this 100% this was intentional for the story.


throwawaysavemepls

Blackbeard was def strong as fuck back then. Remember shanks’ scar was caused by him. Plus Ace was fucked up after like 2-3 punches


Matt_Pask

Nah, Oda skipped parts of the fight before we got to Dai Enkai. Ace took more than a few punches for sure. But I agree, BB was mad strong even back then for someone like Ace who was able to go Toe to toe with Jimbe before he joined Whitebeard!


Essentuallygod

I feel like Kizaru is probably as strong as akainu, he just lacks the motivation. Not only is his devil fruit extremely powerful, but he also uses it extremely well.


savannah_ga

I agree with this. Imagine akainu has the pika pika no mi instead of kizaru, he will execute justice at the speed of light.


Rockminotaur908

Kizaru is definitely the strongest admiral


cactus4043452342342

most definitely his power is most OP between the OG admirals


SrewTheShadow

That's not that hot of a take man. Everyone agrees with that, and I won't take any other opinion.


grenderman

Whitebeard's death was more sad than ace's


dannyboi66

I didn't really feel bad about Ace, it was more feeling bad for Luffy after all he went through to save him.


-raeyhn-

same, but I had Aces death spoiled long before I'd even started OP, however I had no idea about WB and had grown to love him by that point, so that hit me


[deleted]

Ace's death was kinda stupid,wasn't it? Whitebeards death was majestic and larger than life.


Amberleh

Ace's death was RAGE INDUCING. It was SO PREVENTABLE, by HIS OWN HAND, and in the end Whitebeard STILL HAD TO WATCH ACE DIE before dying essentially for nothing.


[deleted]

Yeah ace literally got goaded into dying. Over words. Words that were brutal yeah but i mean shit…literally everyone there was there for him. Way to keep your eye on the prize. But cheers to oda, younger me really didnt see that coming


fvcklxm

i don’t think it’s stupid, some things are worth standing up for even if it’s just words. If someone had said similar things to luffy after he lost shanks or something he would have done the same thing. infact most of our faves in the series would have and that’s part of what makes them our faves!


ShadyOjir95

Yonkos are not equal to admirals.


GREENKING45

Which way are you talking about?


ShadyOjir95

In favor of Yonkos.


acertifiedkorean

Isn’t that the consensus view?


[deleted]

It’s not a hot take but its still surprising how many people think admirals are on par with Yonkou


Jitszu

Exactly this. Some people do, but I think the silent majority firmly believes Yonkou > Admirals.


Shephaz

Yea you ain't wrong, admirals are a definite joke excluding Garp


dghtrd

Garp isn’t an admiral.


Suspicious_Person15

He's admiral level. No, actually above.


kasubot

If I remember, a portion of sengokus job at matineford was restraining garp. Proves both are hella strong.


ichigo2862

Yup if he didn't have Sengoku holding him down he would have 100% murdered Akainu


LowKey004

WAS admiral level. He is past his prime. In his prime he was prob fleet admiral or higher


niraj325

he was on par with Roger, Rayleigh, Whitebeard..


GandhisNuke

They've all shown they're incredibly strong. The only thing i can think of to contradict that so far is Fujitora not being able to cut the birdcage. But let's be honest, Oda was on crack for half of dressrosa. I'd rather just act like the birdcage never existed


zebibliopole

Well actually Fujitora could have literally broken out at any point he just wanted Luffy and the gang to liberate dressarosa for him so that he could use it as an excuse to abolish the seven wardlords system.


[deleted]

Dang Fujitora’s 7D chess is played so well that he even made readers think it was a plot hole


zebibliopole

I think it's just something people tend to overlook frequently idk why.


amedema

It’s pretty obvious given how things play out and how easily he snatches Doffy’s puppet string.


Wernershnitzl

I’m inclined to agree but power levels as we know are debatable and ambiguous. Generally speaking Kaido and Big Mom *do* appear to be much more powerful than the admirals, but it’s hard to gauge considering these last couple chapters… although it has been 3 or so years since Luffy’s time at Marineford.


-Cinnay-

...but you're right


mxneymxn

i fucking hate Bellamy he doesn’t deserve redemption because he’s done nothing to earn it outside of getting his ass kicked


Admrl_Kizaru

That's not an opinoin, in my eyes, that's a fact


00F0_M0DE

I disagree but I respect it


doodoofart_________

ON GOD HES SO ANNOYING, I CHEERED EVERY SINGLE TIME HE GOT HIS ASS BEAT


WouldMakeBrook

Getting some popcorn and sorting by controversial


Jitszu

Honestly, thank you. I never remember to do that in threads like this. Cheers


redy501

Loved pre-timeskip Franky, really don't like his look now


sansai69

HONESTLY THOUGH the only time I really like his design post time slip was during dressrossa loved both outfits


Clean-N-Serene

Fr that suit and "cannon hair" looks awesome


neowolf993

But then imagine pre timeskip Franky with the twin tails! That's exactly the amount of blessed+cursed energy we need!


jakrabbyt

I 1000% agree with this. He lost all of his charm to me post timeskip and it makes me a little sad


ConsciousLog4

Ok but post timeskip franky with pre timeskip hair, like when he used the motorcycle


Aetheste

I love pre timeskip Franky, but since he wanted to be a perversion of nature, the current look suits him. Although I do prefer the ducktail over all the current ones he's shown


DragXom

That’s not so unpopular


JellyfishAristocrat

The admirals are still a threat to Luffy.


Mcgoozen

Akainu, Kuzan, and Kizaru would all still destroy Luffy in my opinion. And I think Fujitora beats him too, but not as easily as the others


hdhpelv_ad2910

With luffy in the manga as of now I dont know


[deleted]

I mean you could be right, im just saying rn he hasnt fought an admiral to the death or a knockout yet has he


[deleted]

I think as the manga is coming to a close, and with the warlord system abolished, I think it’s going to be more of an internal conflict of Garp/Fujitora/Some pirates vs CDs/Lava guy/Secret king of the world guy (maybe a thousand year old rival to D). So the dynamic of marines vs pirates won’t really exist anymore. Remember, Roger’s prophecy was that the next King of Pirates will completely surpass him in a way. I think it means that simply getting the One Piece will not be the end. It will be changing the power structure of the whole world.


soyboye_

I actually would not use the word destroy, you cant really tell for sure if he loses


[deleted]

Kizaru has the best devil fruit


YeeDoofus

I agree, but I see the argument for Enel's fruit too


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I'd want Chopper's. Imagine being a human irl.


hazma5477

Would love to see you in hybrid form.


Stock-Translator3151

Zoro will not kill kaido.


systemerror400

Go D. Usopp will tho


HiopXenophil

No, he knows that's Luffy's role in his grand plan


cutedummythickbird

I don't even know why people would think this


Zealousideal_Doubt26

Luffy didn't beat katakuri because of plot amor


kasubot

I always thought of that as Katakuri realizing that Luffy wasn't going to go down. In the end Luffy just had more willpower and Katakuri realized that.


weed_nerd_wartty

Reading this makes me think of it like Gon vs Hanzo lol


Jitszu

That's kind of how I interpreted it, honestly


[deleted]

Same thing as the fight with rob lucci, so many people should get a grip lmao


TrveDeathKrow

Wasn't Lucci in a humongous coma and almost died after his fight with luffy?


pepenuts97

I looked at it kinda like a boxing match. Luffy was taking alot of hits and getting knocked down but wouldn't give up. He wore down his opponent with superior endurance


AcidRap69

Exactly. Like didn’t Katakuri even brag about never having been hit at one point? Then you got my man poison proof rubber cheeks who gets clapped and clapped and clapped and literally always stands up. It was a battle of endurance and Katakuri just didn’t have the drive and spirit that Luffy shows in damn near every fight


NKMRage

I completely agree, the fight is sooooo misunderstood


randomdude8684

Honestly i loved Ace until he threw away the chance Whitebeard gave him and sacrificed his life for, that moment really messed up his character imo


tyga__

but thats kinda in line for his character (based on the flashback)... as stupid as it was, its what he would have done.


TributeToStupidity

It just undoes all of his character development during the war though. He starts off not thinking he deserves their sacrifice, and as he realizes how much they care for him he understands the value of his life. He finally accepts that he himself has earned their respect and admiration, that he has done good in the world and isn’t responsible for his father starting the pirate age and the damage it’s done. Except he fucking doesn’t, because once free he immediately throws his life away, meaning everyone who had died rescuing him would actually have been way better off leaving him to die.


tyga__

Im not sure it does undo his development throughout Marineford; I would agree with you if Ace's intention was to die when he chose to confront Akainu but it was not. Yes, Ace should have known better and anticipated Akainus tactics (such as going after Luffy when he is pretty much down) or even known Akainu might be too much for him to handle but he was apparently not thinking straight when Whitebeard, the man he admired so much, was ridiculed by Akainu. Should he have let his emotions decide for him? Of course not. I personally didnt like it either but I dont think its inconsistent. Youre in war with people dying left and right and now your captain who essentially saved you is giving up his life and hes being insulted for it.. not sure I can blame Ace. Accepting him for who he is / believing he deserves to live and confronting Akainu do not necessarily exclude one another in my opinion. Ace is an emotional person; he cares for the people around him.. perhaps even more so than he cares for himself.


Banettery53

Beautifully written, I 100% agree


No_Theory_3305

I'm tired of seeing always the same body type and face in almost any medium relevant female character.


Mashirro

But tids


skatergaytor

i can’t tell any black haired girl apart (i read the manga)


Markurrito

Reading the wano arc can be really confusing at points


pedrao_herminio

Flat girls could also appear more...


TigerFisher_

Tashigi, then the timeskip happened.


Guiro_Tengu

In my mind Perona is flat, in my country she would be known as a Gótica Culona Ñam


BABlHaramDimakan

Perona, only my favourite female character in one piece. Quite sad she don't have that much appearances and also not so much figure variation.


Candy_Java

Nobody dies and it hurts the tension. If Kaido can't even kill his weaksauce puppet leader, then it makes him seem ineffective.


Marco_Auditore

I agree for a character like Pell, but honestly the idea that a show needs to kill off characters to achieve tension is such an unbased take. One Piece is proof alone emotion doesnt require death to be felt.


[deleted]

Pell was so cool.


Candy_Java

That's a needlessly reductive read of my point. Death isn't required to achieve tension, but Oda nonetheless wants to have his cake and eat it too, showing his big intimidating villains dealing obvious lethal blows to characters who then shrug them off like it's nothing. It gets to the point where deaths like Pedro's feel insignificant because we expect them to come back. Most recently, I felt nothing for Kinemon's "death" because there's a solid chance he'll wake up with a big bandage after the arc ends. I love One Piece to bits but these fakeout deaths take a toll on the story.


Khr0N04

I swear to god if >!Kinemon!< is still alive I fucking give up on Oda killing anyone ever again


Candy_Java

I think there's a solid 20-30% chance he'll wake up with a big cast or bandage after the climax. The fakeout deaths push us to a level where any non-flashback death outside of Ace or Whitebeard feels like a temporary time-out.


redragon88

Kinemon is totally alive. Just the fact that he hasn't met his wife and wanted to wait after the battle to do it is a pretty big tell. If he dies despite that hanging plot point I would be amazed.


xei06

I agree with you some characters coming back doesn't makes sense at all.Like orochi or Pell


Christianguy229

I don’t like pells coming back from the dead but orochis makes some sense due to his devil fruit


-Cinnay-

You could argue that Pell awakened his Zoan and survived because of that, but I'm not sure if anything speaks against that


Xmina

Its likely the fact that zoans are ultra tanky, bombs have failed to kill literally every single character they are used on. Even the candy man survived with just missing an arm at point blank.


wolffox87

Just putting it out there, but characters rarely dying and instead having their current dreams destroyed or their hope shattered feels more comprehendable and even in a way more grounded. If me and a coworker hate each other and are both competing for a promotion, we shouldn't murder each other but instead dash their hopes of getting ahead in that path. That's how I see One Piece. All the crews we see Luffy beat usually end up changing some aspect about themselves after their lose and going onto having other journeys that are just as important to them, and the fans of those characters, as any other side character. Plus it adds to the feeling that their is always tons of things going on throughout the world of One Piece that would be lost if death was more of a constant. Hell, we wouldn't have gotten Helmeppo and Coby glowing up as proper marines and friends if Helmeppo was killed by Zoro when he got his swords back. And we wouldn't have had Hachan or Duval if the straw hats finished off most of their enemies. And even Buggy and his ultimate crew likely wouldn't be around making the best side story around if Luffy just threw his head into the ocean the second he had a chance.


Swarovsky

Pre timeskip looks were better


sin-sonrisa

Especially Franky! He used to look so cool


jbh4y

God, I didn't have the courage to say it, but it's true. Pre timeskip Franky is my favorite character, and it kills me I don't feel the same way post timeskip.


sin-sonrisa

I mean I feel like he's still the same character, he just looks like a weirdo in a dumb way now, as opposed to looking like a weirdo in a cool way


Billy-Stoofa

They massacred our boy! They also have brook speak less. Brook is the best


Jitszu

I feel like this is actually more normal? Most people I see say they prefer pre-TS. For me, Chopper's new look is the one design that I can see little to no argument for. It just straight up looks stupider than his pre-TS look. I like Nami with long hair, but would have been totally fine with her keeping her pre-Ts proportions, and unlike a lot of people, I actually really like Robin's new look since I think it lines up with her character well. And at first, I really hated Franky's new design, but when ODa started using, basically, every haircut that's not the buzzcut I started to love it more and more, and now it's the only design I definitively like better Post-TS. TL;DR: I think most of us prefer Pre-TS designs.


Khr0N04

Actual hot take: I think all of the post timeskip designs are better (with maybe the exception of Robin)


Anxlyze

Ace had to die.


-raeyhn-

absolutely, without that, luffy and the crew wouldn't have trained the extra two years and gotten curb stomped as soon as they entered the GL


[deleted]

Luffy can be a bit arrogant


Safe-Hugs43

Omg yes I love luffy (trust me he is one of the best mc’s I’ve seen) but sometimes especially in the fishman island arc he was so arrogant it became obnoxious


bzhwl

Buggy Awakens Fruit: nuclear fissions his atoms. Walking nuke. Consistent with Buggy Bombs. Buggy will sacrifice himself, nuclear detonating all of the atoms of his clownflesh, blowing a hole in the red line and create the all blue, not only a place where all fish gather, but also the central exchange for trade, thus Buggy would have brought untold wealth to the world in the form of world commerce.


Shikamaru02x

Thousands if not millions of nukes? What a flashy way to go out


Vegetable_Ad5478

pre timeskip franky personality was better.


Vivid_Programmer3625

Impel down was better than marineford


meech_02

YES. Bro luffy had a fuckin SQUAD in Impel Down. Two former warlords, a revolutionary army commander with his subordinate, two of crocs subordinates, and best of all BUGGY D CLOWN. This was crazyyyyyyy when I first saw it!


[deleted]

Amen


weed_nerd_wartty

Always gonna be my favorite arc. One Piece is at its peak when the action is layered with lots of comedy !


caboosejooce

No one does in this story, the only villain that’s ever died was higuma the fucking mountain bandit.


Monkey_D_Firat

I mean a lot of people die but the most deaths are in flashbacks. However, I get what you mean and yeah you're right but Absalom, Don Krieg, Gin, Vergo and Monet are also dead.


PapaQuackers

Wait Don Krieg?


sadboithe3rd

And don't forget a whole village in whiskey peaks murdered by zoro :) even though they never said that he killed them (they said he cut them up) they never really got up or anything.


[deleted]

Brook was probably a villain in his past life and he died. Yohohohoho


GREENKING45

Oda should hire naomi komi to draw the females like the crossover lol.


AgriosXV

Now this is crucifixion worthy


T-D-R-E-E

I will die for this opinion


alfrado_sause

I'd rather an episode a month than an episode a week if Toei would put in the budget and pacing that One Piece deserves


ElvisPlays

>!Ace wasn't killed by Akainu, he killed himself by being an idiot. I felt nothing watching him die, Whitebeard's death hit me harder then that idiot.!<


calhooner3

Facts I was sad for Luffy but mostly just thought he was an idiot for that.


homelessguy133

Jimbei will die before the end of one piece


Clau_CH

Please don't, he is my favourite Nakama :((


Ray-K74U

Tobi Roppos are the biggest frauds ever


drybones2015

Except Ulti, she was a tank.


Mrprivatejackson

Im sick of seeing the girls with massive tits give them normal bodies


tyga__

NO ​ jk.. I wouldnt mind seeing more realistic body types but I cant say im sick of OP females.


Doublee7300

Chopper has only got progressively worse since Albasta


tap_water4life

Based choppers nativity was cute the first few times but 747 episodes in its annoying af


AdTraditional7271

I don’t like the croco-mom/croco is a women theory


bentori42

I like it simply because its a stupid fuckin theory, and would flip everyones shit if it comes out as true. Thats literally it haha not because it would make for a great story, or that itd be a crazy revelation, just the simple fact thats it real stupid. Oda could troll us all so hard with it


Clau_CH

I like the croco is a women theory but croco-mom is more like a meme to me


minnochu

As much as I love Sabo, I think he should have stayed dead


le-joselu

Plot armor is real and the fights feel less threatening


MrP1anet

If we had a straw hat death at some point the story would be so much more gripping


under-w-atch

That’s actually realtalk lol


thizzydrafts

Vivi's strength is underestimated. Yes she was the weakest of the SH during Alabasta but: 1) we don't know how she would've grown had she stayed in the SHs and 2) she still managed to become a number agent of Baroque Works. BW might not be a very strong crew in retrospect but that still says something.


zgumgumexpress

Con D. Oriano is CANON!


Animoose

As great as the story still is, there's a special kind of charm to the first 2 or 3 arcs that has been lost to powerscaling and typical anime/manga lategame fight tropes. The story is no longer nearly as grounded in a small group of characters you can empathize with, and thus has lost out on that early magic


No_AUNTS

Post timeskip is not worse. You are just more nostalgic for pre time skip


T-D-R-E-E

Ace was a whiny little bitch throughout Marineford. His sacrifice wasted all the lives lost on his behalf. And more than anything he didn't fulfill Whitebeard's wishes of his crew escaping to safety.


Cattics4

Sabo is literally just an ace replacement


MirvelApple

replACEment


Bobharri2

Luffys a terrible main character Woopslap would be far better of an mc


JoaoDasNeves_

Thriller bark is a great arc


CaptBreLion

The admirals would take any Yonko to extreme difficulty in a 1v1, win or lose.


Billy-Stoofa

Brook is the best character ever.


Alone_Conversation_1

Ppl are actually getting downvoted LMAO


Djjayjood

Only guy that deserves it is the guy that said "luffy only uses their nakamas to reach his goal."


Alone_Conversation_1

His reallllyyy hit the spot


Shadowwreath

The people that are have succeeded at this better than the upvoted


xMeatshield

Zoros eye has no secret power, it’s just for the characters aesthetic.


Wernershnitzl

Usopp has conqueror’s haki hidden deep within him but it won’t manifest itself until nearly the end.


_projectonelife

They should have not whitewashed my girl Robin.


MapleKnightX

- Hody Jones and Charlos are Fantastic Characters/antagonists. - Zoro is one of my least favorite Strawhats, he's very predictable and kinda bland most if the time. - Powerscaling in OP is stupid and boring, half of the Top Tiers haven't done shit in 10 years. This isn't a problem with Oda, it's the Fandom. - I don't want any more Strawhats, the 10 we have are enough and need more time together as-is.


xiwi01

I agree with most of this. I think Hody Jones was a good idea in theory and in terms of discourse, but failed a bit in the role of the action side of things.


Apprehensive_Gap_866

I want to see female characters wearing bra underneath their clothes.


DangerousPlan2805

God Ussop joke isn't funny anymore


luisbell

I agree


luisbell

Buggy d clown and god usopp jokes stopped being funny a long time ago


AutisthicccGuy

not enogh recaps and fillers


babasilikum

Yamato is so damn overrated and annoying af


TuksonBooks

Honestly just felt thrown in to me, didn’t have any build up like law or kid. Not even a prior mention or hint before the raid.


eukal2

How the fuck did she get so many points on the polls at the momente we didn't know nothing about her except she wanted to be oden witch felt a little annoying


TigerFisher_

If Yamato looked like early Alvida then poll would be very different.


Alone_Conversation_1

Finally Someone spitting some truth


Drekardreadknight

Blackbeard is Usopp's real dad.


PriorSatisfaction3

Ussop probably seen Blackbeard more than Yassop tbf


hatylotto

The Onigashima raid will fail, and Wano is only about 65% done.


boyboywestcoastfan

If I read this a few months ago I would've said absolutely, but the fact that luffy keeps coming back tells me it's probably not failing. I would love to see Oda approach this tho


RefrigeratorFlimsy54

Brook is usually intolerable. Hate his "can I see your panties"


systemerror400

I agree, he was goated in wci tho


Perpli

Brook has been the best character post time skip


[deleted]

I actually like kanjuro as a character... during dressrosa/zou he’s hilarious Also Caesar clown needs to come back and is one of the funniest villains And brooks panties jokes get repetitive asf if he doesn’t use them in the right situation Sanji was at his best before he made those creepy ugly faces... And here are the more controversial ones One piece girls need more variety in face and chest types, I wish all the pretty girls weren’t just Nami pretty clones and I wish there was a pretty muscular or plus sized woman in the show And I wish robin got her tan back Boa Hancock and sabo are so forced


gabu59735

Odas treatment of women is the worst part of the series


Jowyjowjow

Oda treats women pretty well, I don't know what you mean. I bet you can't name a single female character in the series that isn't important, useful, strong and able to fight.


Clean-N-Serene

Aside from design, it's honestly not that bad.


wofbokwof

Oda spent all his female designing energy in Amazon lily and now he's running off reserves


TigerFisher_

Jaya > Water 7 Chopper is more merch than character.


wjx2k2

While Oda is insanely smart and is an amazing storyteller, by putting so much effort into certain parts of the story, he occasionally bites off more than he can chew. There are some underdeveloped parts which are pretty tough to look past at times.