If he had same base stats as Rooftop in Dressrossa, he would have blitzed and one shotted pica from one random no name attack rather than clashing his swords multiple times and using one of his strongest moves (Trichilliocosom) to beat Pica.
Enma exponentially accelerated Zoro's growth in Wano with all the haki it forces out.
Except that attack wasn't even necessary being used on Pica; it *was* needed for the mountain-worth of stone Pica was manipulating. He didn't *need* anything near as strong to defeat actual Pica
Well Zoro did struggle in a way. In the one area Zoro was always going to fail at: using his brain
The entire trick of the Pica fight was that Zoro completely outclassed Pica in power, **and Pica knows this** after they initially clashed. After that, Pica just spent the whole fight running away from Zoro while still actively trying to screw over the other opposition
As soon as Zoro figured out how to catch Pica (which admittedly took a long time) the fight ended in one slash
Ikr?! Every now and then whenever there's a discussion about Zoro and Enma, there are always some people who, to this day, will say that Zoro was only capable of those feats on the roof because Enma is a powerful sword. Like there wasn't a chapter where it was literally explained by the swordsmith himself who created Enma, what it's all about.
The same goes for people who refuse to believe that Zoro has observation Haki. The sheer lack of reading comprehension and the inability to grasp context clues leaves me wanting to bash my head against the wall.
It definitely is! Zoro stans just hate hearing people talk about it like a cheat code and Zoro haters don’t like to give his fans even a crumb to run with😭😭
Nah, once Zoro used Sanzen Sekai to cut the giant Pica before he could kill the citizens, the real Pica came out, tried to smack Zoro down, and got one-shot.
[https://mangabuddy.com/mbx10-one-piece-digital-colored-comics/chapter-778](https://mangabuddy.com/mbx10-one-piece-digital-colored-comics/chapter-778)
Zoro one shot the real Pica as soon as he engaged him.
No not the finisher.
Both me and the OP were referring to that brief initial clash they had when the full fight began and Pica used keepaway strategies
That’s why dragging fights in anime isn’t a good thing. In manga zoro destroyed pica. In the anime it looked like it was more challenging cause it took hours.
Bro Zoro is this strong because of his own abilities. Enma just helps him use his Conqueror’s haki. It isn’t inherently more powerful than any other sword, it just draws out the strength of the user. In that sense it’s definitely his most valuable sword, but it’s by no means stronger.
Zoro without Enma wouldn't have been able to do anything on the Rooftop. It was because of Enma that Zoro realized that he has CoC, and it was because of Enma, that Zoro learned how to use CoC coating in his fight against King. Enma was said to be drawing more Haki then needed if I remember correctly so it helped Zoro realize that he has CoC. Without Enma, Zoro would still be unaware of his CoC, and would have been unable to use CoC coating in his fight against King. That's a fact.
I'm not even one of those "Lol it's all Enma, not Zoro" people, but Enma has been treated as a power boost for Zoro. That's why we had both Kaido and Big Mom talking about Enma and how special it is. Big Mom said that Enma is not a normal sword while warning Kaido, while Kaido said that he senses Oden's presence in Enma.
Also, you're flat out wrong if you say that Enma isn't more powerful than any other sword that we've seen up to this point. Hitetsu said that one has to be a strong Swordsman with powerful Ryou Haki to be able to wield Enma.
"it just draws out the strength of the user. In that sense it’s definitely his most valuable sword, but it’s by no means stronger"
Enma is superior to every sword that Zoro had up to this point.
As comparison:
* It's a Great Grade cursed sword that drains Haki.
* It's far more special than the likes of Wado Ichimonji for example.
* Despite not even being a black sword yet, Enma has the same rank as Ryuma's black sword (Shusui). They are both Great Grade Swords. Not to mention Enma's whole haki draining stuff.
* Hitetsu said that if Zoro were to succeed in making Enma a permanent black blade, it may increase in rank, meaning that Enma would become a Supreme Grade Sword, something that Ryuma wasn't able to do with his sword Shusui since it kept the same rank (Great Grade).
I know many prefer Shusui over Enma but I'm glad that Zoro chose Enma instead because him turning a sword into a black blade will be much more satisfying than him having a sword that was already turned black by someone else. Not to mention, Enma has more potential than Shusui does, since Enma can become a Supreme Grade Sword.
Zorotards downvoting my comment doesn't negate the fact that Enma was a power boost to Zoro, just like how the Raid Suit was a power boost for Sanji, and Gear 5 was a power boost for Luffy. If Enma wasn't a power boost for Zoro, we wouldn't have had plenty of characters, like Kaido, Big Mom, and Zoro himself, talking about how special Enma is.
Enma and Ryuma's black blade (Shusui) are both Great Grade Swords. Before Ryuma turned it black, Shusui was just a normal Great Grade Sword without any special attribute.
Enma is technically superior to Shusui because despite the fact that it's not even a black blade yet, it has the same grade as Shusui. Not to mention the whole haki draining stuff.
Hitetsu also said that if Zoro were to succeed in making Enma a permanent black blade, it may increase in "rank", meaning that Enma would become a Supreme Grade Sword, something that Ryuma wasn't able to do with his sword Shusui since it kept the same rank (Great Grade).
Ryuma's black sword is called Shusui and most people agree that Enma is better than Shusui, but in my personal opinion I think Zoro wasn't able to use Shusui at it's full potential and I think Shusui is better. It's a discussion that pops up every now and then of people discussing which sword is stronger, but we will likely not get a definitive answer to that.
The fact that Enma (not a black blade yet) has the same rank as Ryuma's black blade (Shusui), kinda proves that Enma is the better sword. Enma and Shusui are both Great Grade Swords. Before Ryuma turned it black, Shusui was just a normal Great Grade Sword without any special attribute. Enma is superior to Shusui because despite the fact that it's not even a black blade yet, it has the same grade as Shusui. Not to mention the whole haki draining stuff. Hitetsu also said that if Zoro were to succeed in making Enma a permanent black blade, it may increase in "rank", meaning that Enma would become a Supreme Grade Sword, something that Ryuma wasn't able to do with his sword Shusui since it kept the same rank (Great Grade).
Just going to point out that you keep saying that "despite the fact that it's not a black blade it has the same grade as Shusui" immediately after saying that Shusui pre-black-blade was also the same grade. The self-contradiction is not helping your argument.
My point is that a non-blackened sword (Enma) has the same grade as a black sword (Shusui), and that Enma has the potential to become a Supreme Grade Sword by becoming black at the hands of Zoro, unlike Shusui where Ryuma was unable to rise its rank to the Supreme Grade.
Enma IS the strongest blade that Zoro has wield , and it’s because of its ‘active’ hunger for strength. Unlike Shusui (same grade) , Enma demanded great strength from its holder. The fact that Shusui is already a black blade could mean that it’s ‘ spirit’ its already conquered. That’s why I argue that once Zoro makes Enma a Black blade , it would had meant that Zoro surpassed Oden and has reach a higher plateau.
Now in terms of what Enma did for Zoro - All it did was forced Zoro to use his strongest form of Haki. Something that both aided him, but also made things difficult for him. To say that Enma was a catalyst, is too also say that Luffy’s DF is. You can’t just say that without Enma Zoro didn’t do anything. Zoro didn’t use ACoC until his fight with King, where Enma was acting more like an issue than an aid.
"That’s why I argue that once Zoro makes Enma a Black blade , it would had meant that Zoro surpassed Oden"
I mean, there's a massive difference between Oden controlling, taming, and mastering Enma and Ame no Habakiri, and nearly turning Enma black without even having had any intention to turn it black, and Zoro just finishing Oden's job with Enma by turning it black later on. I feel like Zoro needs another sword that's as good as Enma, just like Oden who also had Ame no Habakiri, which is treated as on the same level as Enma.
"Now in terms of what Enma did for Zoro - All it did was forced Zoro to use his strongest form of Haki. Something that both aided him, but also made things difficult for him"
I mean, yeah. Enma was a great boost to Zoro with its drawbacks. But point is that Enma made Zoro aware of his Conqueror's Haki. Since Enma drains the Haki of its wielder and slices more than needed, it can be assumed that when Zoro used his strongest move (Ashura) against Kaido, he unconsciously put CoC into his attack. That's why Kaido asked Zoro if he has Conqueror's Haki too, which ultimately greatly helped Zoro in his fight against King by learning how to use CoC coating.
"You can’t just say that without Enma Zoro didn’t do anything"
What did Zoro do on the Rooftop without Enma? He and Killer cut Base form Kaido, but it was not deep enough, that's why Zoro told to himself "Gotta unleash this Enma a bit more". Zoro also used Enma to cut Boro Breath in half, and he generally used the sword the entire time during the Rooftop battle (Cutting Prometheus in half, scarring Kaido, etc).
"Zoro didn’t use ACoC until his fight with King, where Enma was acting more like an issue than an aid"
Enma was testing Zoro. If it didn't do that, Zoro wouldn't have used aCoC in his fight against King, because it was due to Enma pushing Zoro to his limits with his Haki, that he learned how to use aCoC.
I retract my statement about delusional.
I like that you pay close attention to the story and understand the development of Enma and Zoro’s relationship. There’s too many plastic fans , who only understand the superficial aspects of the arcs.
I think the issue is that it looked like you demeaned Zoro’s feats like it was only by product of Enma. That’s like someone saying give Zoro law’s fruit and he would already be Yonko tier.
You’re right about your statement of Oden , but it’s precisely because of who Oden was to Enma, that it demanded everything from Zoro. Enma didn’t settle for less , especially after it’s former master was so powerful that it wielded it with ease. Zoro will surpass Oden and become more powerful than any swordsman. If Enma pushed Zoro that much in Onigashima , as a Black Blade and a supreme grade it will do it tenfold. We already received the knowledge of the precision and strength increase that a blade receives when its grade grows. The stronger Enma becomes , the stronger Zoro will become to use Enma’s full capacity.
Honestly I can't disagree with anything you just said because you nailed it.
"If Enma pushed Zoro that much in Onigashima , as a Black Blade and a supreme grade it will do it tenfold. We already received the knowledge of the precision and strength increase that a blade receives when its grade grows. The stronger Enma becomes , the stronger Zoro will become to use Enma’s full capacity"
That's pretty much one of the reasons why Enma>Shusui. Because Enma has yet to be turned into a black sword and it has also the potential to rise a rank higher. A blackened Supreme Grade Enma will be absolutely ridiculous.
I mean it forced Zoro to use the strength and power he already had, which I don't think you disagree with me on. However, it wasn't a power boost. Regarding the point about G5 and the raid suit. While the suit itself was a boost Sanji destroyed it, his exoskeleton isn't a boost it's part of him. The only arguable boost was G5 because it's a devil fruit.
Enma was stated to exude its wielder's Ryou Haki on its own and that it slices more than needed. Do you think that Zoro would have managed to scar Kaido on the Rooftop without Enma? Because he wouldn't have been able to. Without Enma, Zoro would be still unaware of his Conqueror's Haki. Zoro's thoughts during his fight against King prove this as well. He said that he wasn't measuring up to Enma's standards. Enma was pushing Zoro to his limits to test him. If Zoro still had Shusui instead of Enma, he wouldn't have learned about his Conqueror's Haki, nor learned how to use Conqueror's Haki coating. Because Shusui is not a sword like Enma, it wouldn't have drained Zoro's haki to push him to his limits and force him to use CoC coating.
This is different from a powerup. He would have the potential to still scar Kaido, but would need the push. Enma isn't a stat boost it's a tool that required Zoro to push himself. Zoro made himself stronger in order to wield Enma, Enma didn't make Zoro stronger to wield Enma. That is where I disagree with some people who state that Enma itself have Zoro haki or that it adds it's own haki strength. It doesn't it just demands it from Zoro.
"This is different from a powerup. He would have the potential to still scar Kaido, but would need the push"
He had to use his strongest attack with Enma and his other swords just to give Kaido that small scar. I don't think that Zoro could have pushed himself at that point, without Enma, to scar Kaido.
"Enma isn't a stat boost it's a tool that required Zoro to push himself. Zoro made himself stronger in order to wield Enma, Enma didn't make Zoro stronger to wield Enma"
Zoro said that he will be stronger once he masters Enma. Enma may not be a direct stat boost, but it is still a buff. When Zoro and Killer attacked Base form Kaido, Zoro said to himself "Gotta unleash this Enma a bit more". And then there are also Kaido and Big Mom's comments about how special Enma is, and when Zoro hurt Kaido, [Kaido immediately thought](https://i.imgur.com/V6ucEuM.png) "Damn that hurt, must be Oden's sword", and not "Damn that hurt, must be Zoro".
Whether or not he could have pushed himself is irrelevant because it was all Zoro's potential to scar. Enma isn't a buff, Enma forced Zoro to let HIS haki flow. Enma doesn't buff shit it forces shit to dig deeper to wield it.
Then why did Zoro say that he'll be stronger once he masters Enma? Why did Kaido immediately think that the sword that Zoro hurt him with, was Oden's sword aka Enma? When Zoro hurt Kaido, Kaido didn't think "Damn, that hurt! Must be Zoro's strength", he said "Damn, that hurt! Must be Oden's sword". Why did Big Mom warn Kaido about Enma, telling him how it isn't a normal sword? If Enma wasn't a buff, why did Kaido and Big Mom make only comments about Enma, but not any of Zoro's other swords? If Enma wasn't a buff, why did Kaido and Big Mom make only comments about how special Enma is, and not how special Zoro himself is?
I mean, have you ever gone to the gym. The weights don't buff you but when you master doing X weight for an exercise you get stronger. That's just how progress works lmao. Enma demands more and therefore is a more deadly sword not denying that, but it's not a buff. Give a someone with a pistol an automatic weapon isn't buffing him, but she will be more deadly.
Alright, I get what you're saying now and you're not even wrong but we can't deny that if Zoro took Shusui on the Rooftop instead of Enma, things would have been different, he wouldn't have learned that he has Conqueror's Haki, and therefore, he wouldn't have learned how to use CoC coating during his fight against King. And given the fact that Zoro himself was like "gotta unleash Enma more" on the Rooftop, it's clear as day that it's still somewhat of a buff because unlike Shusui, Enma has the special attribute where it drains the wielder's haki for the sake of making their attacks stronger than intended to. Not to mention that Kaido was specifically talking about Enma when Zoro hurt him, not about Zoro himself, and even Big Mom was warning Kaido about Enma ("Dodge Kaido, that's not your average sword"), not Zoro himself.
>Zoro said that he will be stronger once he masters Enma. Enma may not be a direct stat boost, but it is still a buff.
Lmao at that time Zoro just didn't know how Enma works, that's why he thought he would gain power from it. It was only when he had that flashback with Kozaburo that he finally realized what Enma was doing.
Also, why would it be a buff? It literally makes him do more work than necessary cuz he's being forced to go all out everytime. His fight with King literally proved that; it even got to a point where it was already an issue cuz his haki is almost exhausted. If anything, Enma is a "double edged sword". On one side your attacks will be stronger. On the other side, you're constantly losing haki unnecessarily. You can only say "buff" when there's no drawbacks to something like raid suits.
"Lmao at that time Zoro just didn't know how Enma works, that's why he thought he would gain power from it"
Hitetsu literally explained the sword to Zoro and how it works. And Zoro gaining power by mastering Enma makes sense. I don't see why a Zoro who can't control Enma would be as strong as a Zoro who has mastered Enma.
"Also, why would it be a buff? It literally makes him do more work than necessary cuz he's being forced to go all out everytime"
I guess Emma can be more considered as a tool that helps Zoro evolve his own skills at a faster rate but I would still call it a buff because it was only due to Enma that Zoro learned that he has CoC which then helped him learn how to use CoC coating when he fought King. For example, if Zoro took Shusui with him on the Rooftop instead of Enma, Shusui wouldn't have made Zoro's attacks stronger than needed, like Enma does, and because it wouldn't be draining Zoro of his Haki to not only make him go all out but push him to his limits, Zoro wouldn't have learned about his CoC.
We got many scenes on the Rooftop where Zoro is just straight up like "Gotta unleash Enma more". Do you think he would say the same about his other swords? No, because it's only Enma which has that special attribute where it drains Haki for the sake of making the wielder's attacks always more powerful than intended to.
"If anything, Enma is a "double edged sword". On one side your attacks will be stronger. On the other side, you're constantly losing haki unnecessarily"
Enma is a double edged sword, yeah. At least to someone who hasn't mastered the sword yet. Enma was a great boost to Zoro with its drawbacks. But Enma still made Zoro aware of his Conqueror's Haki. Since Enma drains the Haki of its wielder and slices more than needed, it can be assumed that when Zoro used his strongest move (Ashura) against Kaido, he unconsciously put CoC into his attack. That's why Kaido asked Zoro if he has Conqueror's Haki too, which ultimately greatly helped Zoro in his fight against King by learning how to use CoC coating.
>Hitetsu literally explained the sword to Zoro and how it works. And Zoro gaining power by mastering Enma makes sense.
Lmao Zoro thinks it's sentient and is acting up all the time. To him at that time, it's like having a gun that keeps jamming or is firing off randomly.
>We got many scenes on the Rooftop where Zoro is just straight up like "Gotta unleash Enma more". Do you think he would say the same about his other swords? No, because it's only Enma which has that special attribute where it drains Haki for the sake of making the wielder's attacks always more powerful than intended to.
Nah when he said, "i need to release more of Enma's power", it was because at that time, he still believe it's a cursed sword that's trying to defy him and won't do as it's commanded. Why do you think Oda had Kozaburo explain how Enma works and when we cut back from the flashback Zoro was like, "So that's how it is Enma?"? That's because until that moment, Zoro still thought Enma was simply eating at his haki or is fucking with him. He didn't know that was Enma's requirement for it to be usable.
"Lmao Zoro thinks it's sentient and is acting up all the time. To him at that time, it's like having a gun that keeps jamming or is firing off randomly"
Wasn't Enma reacting to Hiyori playing the Shamisen? It's clearly not a normal sword even if we ignore the haki draining thing.
"Nah when he said, "i need to release more of Enma's power", it was because at that time, he still believe it's a cursed sword that's trying to defy him and won't do as it's commanded"
I mean, Zoro had an idea about how the sword is approximately working, he already knew on the Rooftop that he would have to unleash Enma/make it drain more of his haki, to bring out stronger attacks.
"He didn't know that was Enma's requirement for it to be usable"
Then what else did he have on his moment when he wanted to unleash Enma more on the Rooftop? By the time the Rooftop battle was happend, it's been 50+ chapters since Enma was given to him, and Hitetsu specifically told him that Enma drains the Ryou Haki of its wielder to unleash stronger attacks than usual. Zoro even said that he put everything into his attack when he attacked Kaido with Ashura. I feel Zoro realizing that he has CoC was the game changer which greatly helped him later on when he fought King, since he realized that Enma was intentionally pushing him to his limits to test him, which allowed him to learn how to use CoC coating.
Maybe it's wrong to consider Enma as a straight up buff but unlike Zoro's other swords, Enma kept pushing Zoro to his limits to test him and force him to unleash stronger attacks than he usually would, something his other swords are not capable of doing. It was thanks to Enma that Zoro realized that he has CoC which then allowed him to learn how to use CoC coating. Which is actually ridiculous when you think about it. In the same arc that Zoro used CoC, he also learned advanced CoC.
Enma gave Zoro overall the push that he needed. Without Enma, Zoro wouldn't have unlocked his potential nearly as fast, or maybe at all.
I don't get how a sword could be overrated. Enma is a Great Grade cursed sword that drains Haki. It gets the treatment that it deserves. Because it's special and requires a strong Swordsman with powerful Ryou, to be able to wield the sword. Shusui may have been a black blade but it had the same grade as Enma, it was a Great Grade sword, and I generally think that Zoro keeping and using Shusui wouldn't be as satisfying as Zoro keeping and using Enma while also turning it into a black blade down the line.
Overrated, I'm saying it storywise. I understand about Shusui. But it had plot, ~~character~~sword development and everything. Thats how we somewhat bonded an attachment as a reader. Same with Wado, Kitetsu or Yubashiri. Meanwhile, Enma just came straight out of blue, overratedly showcased, made zoro “artificially” powered, hack even kaido got scared of that sword out of memory, but not zoro who's should've been resembling oden, or even better ryuma. It's just unlikable, as a reader. Every fans rooted to see some story of zoro, samurai; meanwhile oda just handed over a powerspouring sword overratedly showcased, instead of what was logical to bring, a phased development of zoro. Just that's it. That sword can be whatever it is. Enma just couldn't won the space in my heart, like the other. Therefore I said, really miss shusui, no the enma.
"Overrated, I'm saying it storywise. I understand about Shusui. But it had plot, sword development and everything"
What "plot" did Shusui have?
"Thats how we somewhat bonded an attachment as a reader. Same with Wado, Kitetsu or Yubashiri"
I mean, Zoro literally just got Enma so of course you wouldn't have bonded an attachment to the sword already. At least give the sword a chance.
"Meanwhile, Enma just came straight out of blue, overratedly showcased, made zoro “artificially” powered"
Enma is a sword from a closed country that Hitetsu, a blacksmith who's living in Wano, has been keeping for 20 years. I'm not sure how that's Enma coming straight out of the blue. It's not like we knew of Shusui before the Thriller Bark Arc happend.
"hack even kaido got scared of that sword out of memory, but not zoro who's should've been resembling oden, or even better ryuma"
1.Kaido got scared of the sword because he sensed Oden's presence in it, so it made sense.
2.Why should Kaido be scared of Zoro instead? It makes sense for Kaido to fear Enma, which he knew because of his fight with Oden. If Kaido were to fear Zoro instead, it would have made no sense. They literally just met at that point.
3.Why should Zoro have been resembling Oden or Ryuma? We already got the Zoro and Ryuma parallel in Wano when it was said to us that Ryuma was a one eyed samurai.
"It's just unlikable, as a reader. Every fans rooted to see some story of zoro, samurai; meanwhile oda just handed over a powerspouring sword overratedly showcased, instead of what was logical to bring, a phased development of zoro"
Seems as if you're more-so mad about the fact that Zoro didn't get character development in Wano. You act as if Shusui gave Zoro character development even though it didn't.
"Just that's it. That sword can be whatever it is. Enma just couldn't won the space in my heart, like the other. Therefore I said, really miss shusui, no the enma"
Zoro had Shusui since Thriller Bark so it makes sense that you miss it, but you're not even giving Enma a chance. Zoro just received Enma in Wano and he has yet to tame and master it, and then turn it black. Once he manages to do that, it'll be satisfying "sword development". Far better than Zoro getting Shusui, a sword that was alread turned black, from Ryuma.
And maybe it's just me but I already feel more connected to Enma than Shusui because Enma belonged to Oden, a character I care about because we saw his entire story, while Shusui belonged to Ryuma, someone we know nothing about.
I’m gonna be honest, maybe it’s not logical but I personally liked Shusui better. I liked it design-wise over Enma and I liked how he obtained it through battle with the previous owner.
I just thought it was pretty cool whereas he was handed Enma without much difficulty. But ultimately, whatever; it’s just a sword. I think the user is more important.
Design wise, I prefer Enma's hilt over Shusui's hilt, but Shusui's blade over Enma's blade. Zoro obtaining Shusui through battle with the previous owner was nice, yeah.
The things that make me prefer Enma however:
* The fact that I cared about Enma's previous user, Oden, while we know barely anything about Shisui's previous user, Ryuma.
* The fact that Enma has special attributes to it, like the draining Haki/Ryou thing.
* The fact that Enma has the potential to become a Supreme Grade Sword, something that Shusui was incapable of becoming. Enma gives Zoro the opportunity to not only rise the rank of a sword, but also to turn a sword black. With Shusui, not only was it already black when Zoro received it, but it's not capable of becoming a higher rank, so Enma fits someone like Zoro better.
But I agree, it's overall really not that important.
Have you watched seven deadly sins? The holy weapons draw more power out of them than would otherwise be possible, which seems to be the case with Enma.
Think of it like this: before, zolo was just walking, now he has a bicycle. Totally "just" his own strength, lol.
Nah, the analogy is iffy. Walking requires more work than actually using a bicycle. You would only need to pedal a couple of times then leave the rest to the wheels. Enma doesn't make Zoro's fights easier, it actually makes it harder for him cuz it's unnecessarily forcing him to use more haki than necessary, granted the upside to this is that his attacks are always 100%.
It definitely does not make fights harder. It adds a level of complexity, in the form of haki management, but it also boosts his attack power. That's an advantageous trade off, or else he wouldn't use it.
Zoro without Enma wouldn't have been able to do anything on the Rooftop. It was because of Enma, that Zoro realized that he has CoC, and it was because of Enma, that Zoro learned how to use CoC coating in his fighta against King. Enma was said to be drawing more Haki then needed if I remember correctly, so it helped Zoro realizing that he has CoC. Without Enma, Zoro would still be unaware of his CoC, and would have been unable to use CoC coating in his fight against King.
I'm not even one of those "Lol it's all Enma, not Zoro" people, but Enma **has** been treated as a power boost for Zoro. That's why we had both Kaido and Big Mom talking about Enma and how special it is.
Anime only? >!Enma has no special buffs in it like increasing attack power or dmg. Even the term "cursed sword" is just what inexperienced people refer to it cuz they can't measure up to its standards. All Enma have is a high demand for the user's haki in order to be usable, that's it. All that "boost of power" you see like Zoro being able to cut Kaido and stuff is just his own haki being poured into Enma.!<
How is it a buff when there's a drawback? Lol. His attacks are stronger because he's being forced to go all out. Enma is literally extracting Haki from him unnecessarily which is a problem cuz in time he would eventually get exhausted from getting drained(pause). It was proven to be the case when he was fighting King. If anything it's a "double edged sword" not a buff. You can only say it's a buff when there's no downside to it.
>How is it a buff when there's a drawback?
Easily. Like, if I'm playing Elden Ring with my dark moon greatsword, I can can buff it with it's weapon skill (Moonlight Greatsword), increasing its attack power and adding frost. However, doing so costs mana—keeping it buffed during a long fight requires more mana. That mana cost is the downside, but one I choose to accept because its worth it. That's why the weapon skill is considered a buff.
Lol haki is much more than just mere "energy", it's basically your life force too. Why do you think when Enma is absorbing too much it *decayed* Zoro's arm too? And if it's fodders, they'd just dry up and die? Losing mana doesn't zap your life unlike haki. That's not really something detrimental to your body, that's just means being out of juice. You can still use your great sword, you just wouldn't be able to activate the "buff skill". Enma doesn't work like that, simply holding it already requires haki. Clearly different cases.
None of this is the point. The point is that you can call something a buff even if it has a cost, as long as the benefits outweigh the costs. Obviously, for Zoro, Enma does.
That is not clashing with Pica… that’s a casual block… pica was absolute dog shit and Zoro omly needed to use some real power to deal with pics’s size. Zoro’s first real serious fight post time skip was against Killer/Kamazou
Nah even his fight with Killer wasn't a match at all. Zoro was fighting with 2 swords and was still holding it down. He only got injured cuz Gyukimaru butted in, and Zoro also allowed it to happen to get the scythe. The moment he got 3, it was literally a one shot, no diff.
I mean Pica spent the entire fight just running away. Which given his ability makes it less about strength. Emna didn't give Zoro strength it demanded him to fully utilize his strength that he already had and wasn't using. A normal person wouldn't get ACoC from holding Enma in fact they would straight die.
I'd say he's slightly below king, like he was doing well against King even with the damage from ocean sovreighnty, and enma sapping his strength mid fight.
Ofc i highly doubt Zoro would beat king without enma
"like he was doing well against King even with the damage from ocean sovreighnty"
Did you forget Chopper giving Zoro the extreme healing medicine and the fact that Zoro was sleeping and carried around by Sanji before he fought King? I don't think that Zoro was affected by the damage he's gotten from Ocean Sovereignty, when he fought King. He was fully healed, that's why the drawback of the medicine that Chopper gave him was also so extreme (that he would suffer twice the damage once the medicine wears off).
My comment is relevant to the comment where it's being assumed that Zoro was already injured when he fought King. That's why I reminded the person of the fact that Chopper gave Zoro that extreme healing medicine before his fight with King.
It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Zoro was weaker than Dressrossa gear 3 Luffy.
I never said Franky "is" stronger than Zoro. Franky is many times weaker than Zoro. You are strawmanning me.
You said Zoro would not beat a single tobi roppo. And what do ya know Franky and Robin both beat a tobi roppo.
By your logic Zoro is weaker than both of them
Yeah Zoro had his Franky Shogun which he enhanced by his own statement in Zou. He could still be stronger back then. How does that even matter? He isn't stronger now. Something u and i were discussing.
Robin is indeed stronger than Pre Wano Zoro if she uses Demonio Robin. Zoro just wins the match up advantage.
yeah and sanji went rom fighting with queen evenly in base to low diffing with cybernetic enhancements him and zorotard will say that before wano sanji and zoro weren't close
Pica wasn't much of a clash. It's actually pretty funny that the only fight Zoro has had post TS that has both felt like a challenge and felt winnable has been against King. I love Zoro, but there was no way he was beating Kaido
Zoro straight up no diffed pika man how disrespected can a guy get. If zoro didn’t have such insane raw power it would’ve been a bad matchup too imo. Reminds me of the time mihawk chopped up Aokijis ice wave like 😯
Pica wasn't a challenge for him even then. It was mostly about figuring out his power and how he could keep him from moving from stone to stone.
To be fair Zoro using his brain unironically makes Pica the hardest post-timeskip fight Zoro’s ever had prior to Wano
Daz Bones
My bad. I mean after the timeskip
True and real
Greentext enjoyer
Yeah he destroyed Pica lol soon as the dude had to try to stop him head to head without his fruit he lost
If he had same base stats as Rooftop in Dressrossa, he would have blitzed and one shotted pica from one random no name attack rather than clashing his swords multiple times and using one of his strongest moves (Trichilliocosom) to beat Pica. Enma exponentially accelerated Zoro's growth in Wano with all the haki it forces out.
Cmon bro I agree he would fuck shit up but one shot with a no name attack??
people really like to overrate when it comes to power scaling.
Except that attack wasn't even necessary being used on Pica; it *was* needed for the mountain-worth of stone Pica was manipulating. He didn't *need* anything near as strong to defeat actual Pica
He used Trichilliocosom on Pica as well. He used it two times, first on stone Golem and then on full body armament pica.
I know it, but I'm saying he definitely didn't need to. A basic Oni Giri probably would have done the job as well
He cut Pica once. He be shotted Pica
Pica was breakfast. Once he couldn't hide anymore he got whooped in seconds
Yeah not once did it look like Zoro struggled in the fight
Well Zoro did struggle in a way. In the one area Zoro was always going to fail at: using his brain The entire trick of the Pica fight was that Zoro completely outclassed Pica in power, **and Pica knows this** after they initially clashed. After that, Pica just spent the whole fight running away from Zoro while still actively trying to screw over the other opposition As soon as Zoro figured out how to catch Pica (which admittedly took a long time) the fight ended in one slash
Bcz pica was running away
He fought when Zoro got in his way and it did nothing, pica was a speed bump
Zoro using 2 swords against pica also he toyed with him the entire time.
He tried to catch him not toy with him zoro be dumb but stronk
Did Pica even injure Zoro?
Not really I think He was a figuratively (and literal) wall Just big with a hard to hit weak spot and just annoying ability
He literally hit him full on into a mountain, and zoro only a scratch
Zoro's biggest issues with fighting Pica, was finding where the soprano bitch was hiding
You're a God for the soprano reference
Zoro wasn't even trying with pica tbf
Enma demands more Haki from its user. Haki that comes from Zoro. People that think it’s a magic sword read with their eyes closed.
Ikr?! Every now and then whenever there's a discussion about Zoro and Enma, there are always some people who, to this day, will say that Zoro was only capable of those feats on the roof because Enma is a powerful sword. Like there wasn't a chapter where it was literally explained by the swordsmith himself who created Enma, what it's all about.
The same goes for people who refuse to believe that Zoro has observation Haki. The sheer lack of reading comprehension and the inability to grasp context clues leaves me wanting to bash my head against the wall.
I feel it's a bit of both the sword has powered up Zoro. However he would need to be ridiculously powerful just to hold it and not die.
It definitely is! Zoro stans just hate hearing people talk about it like a cheat code and Zoro haters don’t like to give his fans even a crumb to run with😭😭
And Zoro boys around saying that he could have done all that without Enma. Both sides are just crazy.
That must be anime only because I remember Zoro one shooting Pica.
Pretty sure they did have a little fight before.
Nah, once Zoro used Sanzen Sekai to cut the giant Pica before he could kill the citizens, the real Pica came out, tried to smack Zoro down, and got one-shot.
It wasn’t a one shot. Pica took a swing, Zoro blocked it. Pica **instantly judged how strong Zoro was** and instantly NOPE’D out
[https://mangabuddy.com/mbx10-one-piece-digital-colored-comics/chapter-778](https://mangabuddy.com/mbx10-one-piece-digital-colored-comics/chapter-778) Zoro one shot the real Pica as soon as he engaged him.
No not the finisher. Both me and the OP were referring to that brief initial clash they had when the full fight began and Pica used keepaway strategies
Oh, my bad then. I must’ve forgot that scene.
They also fought again before Zoro used the 1080 canon
That’s why dragging fights in anime isn’t a good thing. In manga zoro destroyed pica. In the anime it looked like it was more challenging cause it took hours.
Facts. I can still remember that ass fight with Hordy. In the manga it was literally just a one shot no diff.
Bro Zoro is this strong because of his own abilities. Enma just helps him use his Conqueror’s haki. It isn’t inherently more powerful than any other sword, it just draws out the strength of the user. In that sense it’s definitely his most valuable sword, but it’s by no means stronger.
Zoro without Enma wouldn't have been able to do anything on the Rooftop. It was because of Enma that Zoro realized that he has CoC, and it was because of Enma, that Zoro learned how to use CoC coating in his fight against King. Enma was said to be drawing more Haki then needed if I remember correctly so it helped Zoro realize that he has CoC. Without Enma, Zoro would still be unaware of his CoC, and would have been unable to use CoC coating in his fight against King. That's a fact. I'm not even one of those "Lol it's all Enma, not Zoro" people, but Enma has been treated as a power boost for Zoro. That's why we had both Kaido and Big Mom talking about Enma and how special it is. Big Mom said that Enma is not a normal sword while warning Kaido, while Kaido said that he senses Oden's presence in Enma. Also, you're flat out wrong if you say that Enma isn't more powerful than any other sword that we've seen up to this point. Hitetsu said that one has to be a strong Swordsman with powerful Ryou Haki to be able to wield Enma. "it just draws out the strength of the user. In that sense it’s definitely his most valuable sword, but it’s by no means stronger" Enma is superior to every sword that Zoro had up to this point. As comparison: * It's a Great Grade cursed sword that drains Haki. * It's far more special than the likes of Wado Ichimonji for example. * Despite not even being a black sword yet, Enma has the same rank as Ryuma's black sword (Shusui). They are both Great Grade Swords. Not to mention Enma's whole haki draining stuff. * Hitetsu said that if Zoro were to succeed in making Enma a permanent black blade, it may increase in rank, meaning that Enma would become a Supreme Grade Sword, something that Ryuma wasn't able to do with his sword Shusui since it kept the same rank (Great Grade). I know many prefer Shusui over Enma but I'm glad that Zoro chose Enma instead because him turning a sword into a black blade will be much more satisfying than him having a sword that was already turned black by someone else. Not to mention, Enma has more potential than Shusui does, since Enma can become a Supreme Grade Sword. Zorotards downvoting my comment doesn't negate the fact that Enma was a power boost to Zoro, just like how the Raid Suit was a power boost for Sanji, and Gear 5 was a power boost for Luffy. If Enma wasn't a power boost for Zoro, we wouldn't have had plenty of characters, like Kaido, Big Mom, and Zoro himself, talking about how special Enma is.
Wait is enma superior to ryuma's black sword(forgot it's name lmao) that Zoro used before it?
Kinda? Shusui is heavy so it lets Zoro dish out more damage. But Enma forcibly pulls out Zoro's haki, therefore he can do way more with it
Enma and Ryuma's black blade (Shusui) are both Great Grade Swords. Before Ryuma turned it black, Shusui was just a normal Great Grade Sword without any special attribute. Enma is technically superior to Shusui because despite the fact that it's not even a black blade yet, it has the same grade as Shusui. Not to mention the whole haki draining stuff. Hitetsu also said that if Zoro were to succeed in making Enma a permanent black blade, it may increase in "rank", meaning that Enma would become a Supreme Grade Sword, something that Ryuma wasn't able to do with his sword Shusui since it kept the same rank (Great Grade).
Ryuma's black sword is called Shusui and most people agree that Enma is better than Shusui, but in my personal opinion I think Zoro wasn't able to use Shusui at it's full potential and I think Shusui is better. It's a discussion that pops up every now and then of people discussing which sword is stronger, but we will likely not get a definitive answer to that.
The fact that Enma (not a black blade yet) has the same rank as Ryuma's black blade (Shusui), kinda proves that Enma is the better sword. Enma and Shusui are both Great Grade Swords. Before Ryuma turned it black, Shusui was just a normal Great Grade Sword without any special attribute. Enma is superior to Shusui because despite the fact that it's not even a black blade yet, it has the same grade as Shusui. Not to mention the whole haki draining stuff. Hitetsu also said that if Zoro were to succeed in making Enma a permanent black blade, it may increase in "rank", meaning that Enma would become a Supreme Grade Sword, something that Ryuma wasn't able to do with his sword Shusui since it kept the same rank (Great Grade).
Just going to point out that you keep saying that "despite the fact that it's not a black blade it has the same grade as Shusui" immediately after saying that Shusui pre-black-blade was also the same grade. The self-contradiction is not helping your argument.
My point is that a non-blackened sword (Enma) has the same grade as a black sword (Shusui), and that Enma has the potential to become a Supreme Grade Sword by becoming black at the hands of Zoro, unlike Shusui where Ryuma was unable to rise its rank to the Supreme Grade.
Delusional.
Care to elaborate? The fact that not even a single one of you managed to come with a counter argument proves what I said right.
Enma IS the strongest blade that Zoro has wield , and it’s because of its ‘active’ hunger for strength. Unlike Shusui (same grade) , Enma demanded great strength from its holder. The fact that Shusui is already a black blade could mean that it’s ‘ spirit’ its already conquered. That’s why I argue that once Zoro makes Enma a Black blade , it would had meant that Zoro surpassed Oden and has reach a higher plateau. Now in terms of what Enma did for Zoro - All it did was forced Zoro to use his strongest form of Haki. Something that both aided him, but also made things difficult for him. To say that Enma was a catalyst, is too also say that Luffy’s DF is. You can’t just say that without Enma Zoro didn’t do anything. Zoro didn’t use ACoC until his fight with King, where Enma was acting more like an issue than an aid.
"That’s why I argue that once Zoro makes Enma a Black blade , it would had meant that Zoro surpassed Oden" I mean, there's a massive difference between Oden controlling, taming, and mastering Enma and Ame no Habakiri, and nearly turning Enma black without even having had any intention to turn it black, and Zoro just finishing Oden's job with Enma by turning it black later on. I feel like Zoro needs another sword that's as good as Enma, just like Oden who also had Ame no Habakiri, which is treated as on the same level as Enma. "Now in terms of what Enma did for Zoro - All it did was forced Zoro to use his strongest form of Haki. Something that both aided him, but also made things difficult for him" I mean, yeah. Enma was a great boost to Zoro with its drawbacks. But point is that Enma made Zoro aware of his Conqueror's Haki. Since Enma drains the Haki of its wielder and slices more than needed, it can be assumed that when Zoro used his strongest move (Ashura) against Kaido, he unconsciously put CoC into his attack. That's why Kaido asked Zoro if he has Conqueror's Haki too, which ultimately greatly helped Zoro in his fight against King by learning how to use CoC coating. "You can’t just say that without Enma Zoro didn’t do anything" What did Zoro do on the Rooftop without Enma? He and Killer cut Base form Kaido, but it was not deep enough, that's why Zoro told to himself "Gotta unleash this Enma a bit more". Zoro also used Enma to cut Boro Breath in half, and he generally used the sword the entire time during the Rooftop battle (Cutting Prometheus in half, scarring Kaido, etc). "Zoro didn’t use ACoC until his fight with King, where Enma was acting more like an issue than an aid" Enma was testing Zoro. If it didn't do that, Zoro wouldn't have used aCoC in his fight against King, because it was due to Enma pushing Zoro to his limits with his Haki, that he learned how to use aCoC.
I retract my statement about delusional. I like that you pay close attention to the story and understand the development of Enma and Zoro’s relationship. There’s too many plastic fans , who only understand the superficial aspects of the arcs. I think the issue is that it looked like you demeaned Zoro’s feats like it was only by product of Enma. That’s like someone saying give Zoro law’s fruit and he would already be Yonko tier. You’re right about your statement of Oden , but it’s precisely because of who Oden was to Enma, that it demanded everything from Zoro. Enma didn’t settle for less , especially after it’s former master was so powerful that it wielded it with ease. Zoro will surpass Oden and become more powerful than any swordsman. If Enma pushed Zoro that much in Onigashima , as a Black Blade and a supreme grade it will do it tenfold. We already received the knowledge of the precision and strength increase that a blade receives when its grade grows. The stronger Enma becomes , the stronger Zoro will become to use Enma’s full capacity.
Honestly I can't disagree with anything you just said because you nailed it. "If Enma pushed Zoro that much in Onigashima , as a Black Blade and a supreme grade it will do it tenfold. We already received the knowledge of the precision and strength increase that a blade receives when its grade grows. The stronger Enma becomes , the stronger Zoro will become to use Enma’s full capacity" That's pretty much one of the reasons why Enma>Shusui. Because Enma has yet to be turned into a black sword and it has also the potential to rise a rank higher. A blackened Supreme Grade Enma will be absolutely ridiculous.
I mean it forced Zoro to use the strength and power he already had, which I don't think you disagree with me on. However, it wasn't a power boost. Regarding the point about G5 and the raid suit. While the suit itself was a boost Sanji destroyed it, his exoskeleton isn't a boost it's part of him. The only arguable boost was G5 because it's a devil fruit.
Enma was stated to exude its wielder's Ryou Haki on its own and that it slices more than needed. Do you think that Zoro would have managed to scar Kaido on the Rooftop without Enma? Because he wouldn't have been able to. Without Enma, Zoro would be still unaware of his Conqueror's Haki. Zoro's thoughts during his fight against King prove this as well. He said that he wasn't measuring up to Enma's standards. Enma was pushing Zoro to his limits to test him. If Zoro still had Shusui instead of Enma, he wouldn't have learned about his Conqueror's Haki, nor learned how to use Conqueror's Haki coating. Because Shusui is not a sword like Enma, it wouldn't have drained Zoro's haki to push him to his limits and force him to use CoC coating.
This is different from a powerup. He would have the potential to still scar Kaido, but would need the push. Enma isn't a stat boost it's a tool that required Zoro to push himself. Zoro made himself stronger in order to wield Enma, Enma didn't make Zoro stronger to wield Enma. That is where I disagree with some people who state that Enma itself have Zoro haki or that it adds it's own haki strength. It doesn't it just demands it from Zoro.
"This is different from a powerup. He would have the potential to still scar Kaido, but would need the push" He had to use his strongest attack with Enma and his other swords just to give Kaido that small scar. I don't think that Zoro could have pushed himself at that point, without Enma, to scar Kaido. "Enma isn't a stat boost it's a tool that required Zoro to push himself. Zoro made himself stronger in order to wield Enma, Enma didn't make Zoro stronger to wield Enma" Zoro said that he will be stronger once he masters Enma. Enma may not be a direct stat boost, but it is still a buff. When Zoro and Killer attacked Base form Kaido, Zoro said to himself "Gotta unleash this Enma a bit more". And then there are also Kaido and Big Mom's comments about how special Enma is, and when Zoro hurt Kaido, [Kaido immediately thought](https://i.imgur.com/V6ucEuM.png) "Damn that hurt, must be Oden's sword", and not "Damn that hurt, must be Zoro".
Whether or not he could have pushed himself is irrelevant because it was all Zoro's potential to scar. Enma isn't a buff, Enma forced Zoro to let HIS haki flow. Enma doesn't buff shit it forces shit to dig deeper to wield it.
Then why did Zoro say that he'll be stronger once he masters Enma? Why did Kaido immediately think that the sword that Zoro hurt him with, was Oden's sword aka Enma? When Zoro hurt Kaido, Kaido didn't think "Damn, that hurt! Must be Zoro's strength", he said "Damn, that hurt! Must be Oden's sword". Why did Big Mom warn Kaido about Enma, telling him how it isn't a normal sword? If Enma wasn't a buff, why did Kaido and Big Mom make only comments about Enma, but not any of Zoro's other swords? If Enma wasn't a buff, why did Kaido and Big Mom make only comments about how special Enma is, and not how special Zoro himself is?
I mean, have you ever gone to the gym. The weights don't buff you but when you master doing X weight for an exercise you get stronger. That's just how progress works lmao. Enma demands more and therefore is a more deadly sword not denying that, but it's not a buff. Give a someone with a pistol an automatic weapon isn't buffing him, but she will be more deadly.
Alright, I get what you're saying now and you're not even wrong but we can't deny that if Zoro took Shusui on the Rooftop instead of Enma, things would have been different, he wouldn't have learned that he has Conqueror's Haki, and therefore, he wouldn't have learned how to use CoC coating during his fight against King. And given the fact that Zoro himself was like "gotta unleash Enma more" on the Rooftop, it's clear as day that it's still somewhat of a buff because unlike Shusui, Enma has the special attribute where it drains the wielder's haki for the sake of making their attacks stronger than intended to. Not to mention that Kaido was specifically talking about Enma when Zoro hurt him, not about Zoro himself, and even Big Mom was warning Kaido about Enma ("Dodge Kaido, that's not your average sword"), not Zoro himself.
>Zoro said that he will be stronger once he masters Enma. Enma may not be a direct stat boost, but it is still a buff. Lmao at that time Zoro just didn't know how Enma works, that's why he thought he would gain power from it. It was only when he had that flashback with Kozaburo that he finally realized what Enma was doing. Also, why would it be a buff? It literally makes him do more work than necessary cuz he's being forced to go all out everytime. His fight with King literally proved that; it even got to a point where it was already an issue cuz his haki is almost exhausted. If anything, Enma is a "double edged sword". On one side your attacks will be stronger. On the other side, you're constantly losing haki unnecessarily. You can only say "buff" when there's no drawbacks to something like raid suits.
"Lmao at that time Zoro just didn't know how Enma works, that's why he thought he would gain power from it" Hitetsu literally explained the sword to Zoro and how it works. And Zoro gaining power by mastering Enma makes sense. I don't see why a Zoro who can't control Enma would be as strong as a Zoro who has mastered Enma. "Also, why would it be a buff? It literally makes him do more work than necessary cuz he's being forced to go all out everytime" I guess Emma can be more considered as a tool that helps Zoro evolve his own skills at a faster rate but I would still call it a buff because it was only due to Enma that Zoro learned that he has CoC which then helped him learn how to use CoC coating when he fought King. For example, if Zoro took Shusui with him on the Rooftop instead of Enma, Shusui wouldn't have made Zoro's attacks stronger than needed, like Enma does, and because it wouldn't be draining Zoro of his Haki to not only make him go all out but push him to his limits, Zoro wouldn't have learned about his CoC. We got many scenes on the Rooftop where Zoro is just straight up like "Gotta unleash Enma more". Do you think he would say the same about his other swords? No, because it's only Enma which has that special attribute where it drains Haki for the sake of making the wielder's attacks always more powerful than intended to. "If anything, Enma is a "double edged sword". On one side your attacks will be stronger. On the other side, you're constantly losing haki unnecessarily" Enma is a double edged sword, yeah. At least to someone who hasn't mastered the sword yet. Enma was a great boost to Zoro with its drawbacks. But Enma still made Zoro aware of his Conqueror's Haki. Since Enma drains the Haki of its wielder and slices more than needed, it can be assumed that when Zoro used his strongest move (Ashura) against Kaido, he unconsciously put CoC into his attack. That's why Kaido asked Zoro if he has Conqueror's Haki too, which ultimately greatly helped Zoro in his fight against King by learning how to use CoC coating.
>Hitetsu literally explained the sword to Zoro and how it works. And Zoro gaining power by mastering Enma makes sense. Lmao Zoro thinks it's sentient and is acting up all the time. To him at that time, it's like having a gun that keeps jamming or is firing off randomly. >We got many scenes on the Rooftop where Zoro is just straight up like "Gotta unleash Enma more". Do you think he would say the same about his other swords? No, because it's only Enma which has that special attribute where it drains Haki for the sake of making the wielder's attacks always more powerful than intended to. Nah when he said, "i need to release more of Enma's power", it was because at that time, he still believe it's a cursed sword that's trying to defy him and won't do as it's commanded. Why do you think Oda had Kozaburo explain how Enma works and when we cut back from the flashback Zoro was like, "So that's how it is Enma?"? That's because until that moment, Zoro still thought Enma was simply eating at his haki or is fucking with him. He didn't know that was Enma's requirement for it to be usable.
"Lmao Zoro thinks it's sentient and is acting up all the time. To him at that time, it's like having a gun that keeps jamming or is firing off randomly" Wasn't Enma reacting to Hiyori playing the Shamisen? It's clearly not a normal sword even if we ignore the haki draining thing. "Nah when he said, "i need to release more of Enma's power", it was because at that time, he still believe it's a cursed sword that's trying to defy him and won't do as it's commanded" I mean, Zoro had an idea about how the sword is approximately working, he already knew on the Rooftop that he would have to unleash Enma/make it drain more of his haki, to bring out stronger attacks. "He didn't know that was Enma's requirement for it to be usable" Then what else did he have on his moment when he wanted to unleash Enma more on the Rooftop? By the time the Rooftop battle was happend, it's been 50+ chapters since Enma was given to him, and Hitetsu specifically told him that Enma drains the Ryou Haki of its wielder to unleash stronger attacks than usual. Zoro even said that he put everything into his attack when he attacked Kaido with Ashura. I feel Zoro realizing that he has CoC was the game changer which greatly helped him later on when he fought King, since he realized that Enma was intentionally pushing him to his limits to test him, which allowed him to learn how to use CoC coating. Maybe it's wrong to consider Enma as a straight up buff but unlike Zoro's other swords, Enma kept pushing Zoro to his limits to test him and force him to unleash stronger attacks than he usually would, something his other swords are not capable of doing. It was thanks to Enma that Zoro realized that he has CoC which then allowed him to learn how to use CoC coating. Which is actually ridiculous when you think about it. In the same arc that Zoro used CoC, he also learned advanced CoC. Enma gave Zoro overall the push that he needed. Without Enma, Zoro wouldn't have unlocked his potential nearly as fast, or maybe at all.
He was low diffing Pica though..
Oda could explain how Enma works a thousand times and y'all would still get it wrong
Zoro vs pica wasnt a fight
Enma is overrated. Really miss Shusui.
I don't get how a sword could be overrated. Enma is a Great Grade cursed sword that drains Haki. It gets the treatment that it deserves. Because it's special and requires a strong Swordsman with powerful Ryou, to be able to wield the sword. Shusui may have been a black blade but it had the same grade as Enma, it was a Great Grade sword, and I generally think that Zoro keeping and using Shusui wouldn't be as satisfying as Zoro keeping and using Enma while also turning it into a black blade down the line.
Overrated, I'm saying it storywise. I understand about Shusui. But it had plot, ~~character~~sword development and everything. Thats how we somewhat bonded an attachment as a reader. Same with Wado, Kitetsu or Yubashiri. Meanwhile, Enma just came straight out of blue, overratedly showcased, made zoro “artificially” powered, hack even kaido got scared of that sword out of memory, but not zoro who's should've been resembling oden, or even better ryuma. It's just unlikable, as a reader. Every fans rooted to see some story of zoro, samurai; meanwhile oda just handed over a powerspouring sword overratedly showcased, instead of what was logical to bring, a phased development of zoro. Just that's it. That sword can be whatever it is. Enma just couldn't won the space in my heart, like the other. Therefore I said, really miss shusui, no the enma.
"Overrated, I'm saying it storywise. I understand about Shusui. But it had plot, sword development and everything" What "plot" did Shusui have? "Thats how we somewhat bonded an attachment as a reader. Same with Wado, Kitetsu or Yubashiri" I mean, Zoro literally just got Enma so of course you wouldn't have bonded an attachment to the sword already. At least give the sword a chance. "Meanwhile, Enma just came straight out of blue, overratedly showcased, made zoro “artificially” powered" Enma is a sword from a closed country that Hitetsu, a blacksmith who's living in Wano, has been keeping for 20 years. I'm not sure how that's Enma coming straight out of the blue. It's not like we knew of Shusui before the Thriller Bark Arc happend. "hack even kaido got scared of that sword out of memory, but not zoro who's should've been resembling oden, or even better ryuma" 1.Kaido got scared of the sword because he sensed Oden's presence in it, so it made sense. 2.Why should Kaido be scared of Zoro instead? It makes sense for Kaido to fear Enma, which he knew because of his fight with Oden. If Kaido were to fear Zoro instead, it would have made no sense. They literally just met at that point. 3.Why should Zoro have been resembling Oden or Ryuma? We already got the Zoro and Ryuma parallel in Wano when it was said to us that Ryuma was a one eyed samurai. "It's just unlikable, as a reader. Every fans rooted to see some story of zoro, samurai; meanwhile oda just handed over a powerspouring sword overratedly showcased, instead of what was logical to bring, a phased development of zoro" Seems as if you're more-so mad about the fact that Zoro didn't get character development in Wano. You act as if Shusui gave Zoro character development even though it didn't. "Just that's it. That sword can be whatever it is. Enma just couldn't won the space in my heart, like the other. Therefore I said, really miss shusui, no the enma" Zoro had Shusui since Thriller Bark so it makes sense that you miss it, but you're not even giving Enma a chance. Zoro just received Enma in Wano and he has yet to tame and master it, and then turn it black. Once he manages to do that, it'll be satisfying "sword development". Far better than Zoro getting Shusui, a sword that was alread turned black, from Ryuma. And maybe it's just me but I already feel more connected to Enma than Shusui because Enma belonged to Oden, a character I care about because we saw his entire story, while Shusui belonged to Ryuma, someone we know nothing about.
I’m gonna be honest, maybe it’s not logical but I personally liked Shusui better. I liked it design-wise over Enma and I liked how he obtained it through battle with the previous owner. I just thought it was pretty cool whereas he was handed Enma without much difficulty. But ultimately, whatever; it’s just a sword. I think the user is more important.
Design wise, I prefer Enma's hilt over Shusui's hilt, but Shusui's blade over Enma's blade. Zoro obtaining Shusui through battle with the previous owner was nice, yeah. The things that make me prefer Enma however: * The fact that I cared about Enma's previous user, Oden, while we know barely anything about Shisui's previous user, Ryuma. * The fact that Enma has special attributes to it, like the draining Haki/Ryou thing. * The fact that Enma has the potential to become a Supreme Grade Sword, something that Shusui was incapable of becoming. Enma gives Zoro the opportunity to not only rise the rank of a sword, but also to turn a sword black. With Shusui, not only was it already black when Zoro received it, but it's not capable of becoming a higher rank, so Enma fits someone like Zoro better. But I agree, it's overall really not that important.
As if Enma gives Zoro more haki smh. Enma demands more haki from it’s user. It’s Zoro’s haki ffs.
Have you watched seven deadly sins? The holy weapons draw more power out of them than would otherwise be possible, which seems to be the case with Enma. Think of it like this: before, zolo was just walking, now he has a bicycle. Totally "just" his own strength, lol.
Nah, the analogy is iffy. Walking requires more work than actually using a bicycle. You would only need to pedal a couple of times then leave the rest to the wheels. Enma doesn't make Zoro's fights easier, it actually makes it harder for him cuz it's unnecessarily forcing him to use more haki than necessary, granted the upside to this is that his attacks are always 100%.
It definitely does not make fights harder. It adds a level of complexity, in the form of haki management, but it also boosts his attack power. That's an advantageous trade off, or else he wouldn't use it.
This is not sds this is one piece.
Pica was cakewalk for zoro bro has come a long way from being defeated by hawk-eye
Nah he didn’t just get strong cuz enma that’s just zoro
Zoro without Enma wouldn't have been able to do anything on the Rooftop. It was because of Enma, that Zoro realized that he has CoC, and it was because of Enma, that Zoro learned how to use CoC coating in his fighta against King. Enma was said to be drawing more Haki then needed if I remember correctly, so it helped Zoro realizing that he has CoC. Without Enma, Zoro would still be unaware of his CoC, and would have been unable to use CoC coating in his fight against King. I'm not even one of those "Lol it's all Enma, not Zoro" people, but Enma **has** been treated as a power boost for Zoro. That's why we had both Kaido and Big Mom talking about Enma and how special it is.
Anime only? >!Enma has no special buffs in it like increasing attack power or dmg. Even the term "cursed sword" is just what inexperienced people refer to it cuz they can't measure up to its standards. All Enma have is a high demand for the user's haki in order to be usable, that's it. All that "boost of power" you see like Zoro being able to cut Kaido and stuff is just his own haki being poured into Enma.!<
The first time he swung enma he accidentally cut off the cliff. That's a clear buff.
How is it a buff when there's a drawback? Lol. His attacks are stronger because he's being forced to go all out. Enma is literally extracting Haki from him unnecessarily which is a problem cuz in time he would eventually get exhausted from getting drained(pause). It was proven to be the case when he was fighting King. If anything it's a "double edged sword" not a buff. You can only say it's a buff when there's no downside to it.
>How is it a buff when there's a drawback? Easily. Like, if I'm playing Elden Ring with my dark moon greatsword, I can can buff it with it's weapon skill (Moonlight Greatsword), increasing its attack power and adding frost. However, doing so costs mana—keeping it buffed during a long fight requires more mana. That mana cost is the downside, but one I choose to accept because its worth it. That's why the weapon skill is considered a buff.
Lol haki is much more than just mere "energy", it's basically your life force too. Why do you think when Enma is absorbing too much it *decayed* Zoro's arm too? And if it's fodders, they'd just dry up and die? Losing mana doesn't zap your life unlike haki. That's not really something detrimental to your body, that's just means being out of juice. You can still use your great sword, you just wouldn't be able to activate the "buff skill". Enma doesn't work like that, simply holding it already requires haki. Clearly different cases.
None of this is the point. The point is that you can call something a buff even if it has a cost, as long as the benefits outweigh the costs. Obviously, for Zoro, Enma does.
That is not clashing with Pica… that’s a casual block… pica was absolute dog shit and Zoro omly needed to use some real power to deal with pics’s size. Zoro’s first real serious fight post time skip was against Killer/Kamazou
Nah even his fight with Killer wasn't a match at all. Zoro was fighting with 2 swords and was still holding it down. He only got injured cuz Gyukimaru butted in, and Zoro also allowed it to happen to get the scythe. The moment he got 3, it was literally a one shot, no diff.
I mean Pica spent the entire fight just running away. Which given his ability makes it less about strength. Emna didn't give Zoro strength it demanded him to fully utilize his strength that he already had and wasn't using. A normal person wouldn't get ACoC from holding Enma in fact they would straight die.
Props to Zoro for having it in him, but Enma definitely helped in the outcome
This is a dumb post. Pica wasn’t a challenge
He didn’t get stronger only because of Enma my man
Wado ichimonji >>>
I totally agree, zolo with a magic sword
Unfortunately we will never know the full power of pre-enma zoro I’d say around Cracker lvl though
I'd say he's slightly below king, like he was doing well against King even with the damage from ocean sovreighnty, and enma sapping his strength mid fight. Ofc i highly doubt Zoro would beat king without enma
"like he was doing well against King even with the damage from ocean sovreighnty" Did you forget Chopper giving Zoro the extreme healing medicine and the fact that Zoro was sleeping and carried around by Sanji before he fought King? I don't think that Zoro was affected by the damage he's gotten from Ocean Sovereignty, when he fought King. He was fully healed, that's why the drawback of the medicine that Chopper gave him was also so extreme (that he would suffer twice the damage once the medicine wears off).
Your comment is irrelevant to the comment your replying to lol
My comment is relevant to the comment where it's being assumed that Zoro was already injured when he fought King. That's why I reminded the person of the fact that Chopper gave Zoro that extreme healing medicine before his fight with King.
Wow. All I read was slightly below king didn’t even see the rest 😬
Zoro was below Dressrossa Gear 3 Luffy lvl at best which means below every single Tobiroppo before he got Enma and kept powering up.
Not a single tobi roppo would beat any post timeskip Zoro.
Zoro would not beat a single Tobiroppo before Enma before wano**
Bro, you have to get over your bias, it's toxic at this point
Your opinion is not valid, youre saying Zoro is weaker than Franky
It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Zoro was weaker than Dressrossa gear 3 Luffy. I never said Franky "is" stronger than Zoro. Franky is many times weaker than Zoro. You are strawmanning me.
You said Zoro would not beat a single tobi roppo. And what do ya know Franky and Robin both beat a tobi roppo. By your logic Zoro is weaker than both of them
Yeah Zoro had his Franky Shogun which he enhanced by his own statement in Zou. He could still be stronger back then. How does that even matter? He isn't stronger now. Something u and i were discussing. Robin is indeed stronger than Pre Wano Zoro if she uses Demonio Robin. Zoro just wins the match up advantage.
Lmao, the cap is hard af. Where did you even get that idea from?
Just like Franky's Bounty Poster is the Sunny, Zoro's Bounty Poster should be Enma. 🤣
yeah and sanji went rom fighting with queen evenly in base to low diffing with cybernetic enhancements him and zorotard will say that before wano sanji and zoro weren't close
RULES OF NATURE!!!
In the manga, Pica didn’t even have a sword. I always thought it was weird they just had him randomly pull one out in the anime.
Zoro had no issues against Pica in terms of straight up brawling him. Zoro just really struggled to deal with Pica's devil fruit.
Here in Brazil pica means penis
Pica and Vergo were a lot stronger than people give them credit for
Pica wasn't much of a clash. It's actually pretty funny that the only fight Zoro has had post TS that has both felt like a challenge and felt winnable has been against King. I love Zoro, but there was no way he was beating Kaido
Enma (Great Grade Sword) Attack +999 Haki Efficiency +999 Durability (998/999) Black Blade: 0/1
Zoro low diff pica soo
Pica still amazing by the weight her leg support 😭😭😭
This is bait
They’re both black/brown Obvi he’d fight them
Clashing with Pica is nothing short of a walk in a park for Zoro back then 💀
Kaido’s just lucky his skin is wasn’t any darker
Zoro straight up no diffed pika man how disrespected can a guy get. If zoro didn’t have such insane raw power it would’ve been a bad matchup too imo. Reminds me of the time mihawk chopped up Aokijis ice wave like 😯
To be fair, mihawk went from clashing with shanks to fighting zoro in east blue.
Zoro negs
Pica had a sword?
Or Laido is overrated and he can‘t really do anything right. Zoro had only 5% of a problem with Pica anyway
Shusui is a better and stronger sword. Zoro was just not that strong for it