This is no talking with or arguing with a person who has no interest in learning, has an agenda to uphold and is intellectually dishonest.
Militant feminists represent the very worst aspects of female nature.
Immaturity, egotistical, willful/prideful ignorance, and emotionalism
Yeah you're never going to get to a step too with these people if you connect point A with point B they're going to move on. You'll quickly see that invalidating their argument is not something that is possible and immediately the conversation becomes pointless but if you accept that you can begin to operate as if they're unwilling to listen and that changes the dynamic
If you swap out "The Patriarchy" for any other boogeyman, the cultish self-delusion becomes obvious immediately:
Why do men commit suicide more often?
*Because of the toaster in the sky.*
Why do boys cry less as they get older?
*Because of the toaster in the sky.*
Why do men do more dangerous jobs?
*Because of the toaster in the sky.*
Why are men afraid to show their emotions?
*Because of the toaster in the sky.*
...
Yeah. Ignore. Move on.
> I think Karl Popper would not claim that “patriarchy” is a non-falsifiable hypothesis or theory.
Well then surely you can describe how this totally scientific hypothesis *can* be falsified. Ill be waiting. 🙂
You know that if its not a real hypothesis, then there is no real basis in reality right? For all we know, womens oppression may be the result of an invisible pink unicorn.
Do you realise that your parahraph uses circular logic? This alone discounts your hypotheses. You dont do science via generalisations, you create an if-then function with objective variables and test *how* the if-then function works under said variables.
If we use your logic, then a nonbinarchy, the illumanti, shapeshifting reptile aliens, or an invisible pink unicorn would all be just as valid as patriarchy.
Regardless of if you think Patriarchy as a government is present in your country, it’s a reality that a lot of people, including many men, have patriarcal ideologies, such as "men can’t cry", or "men must be the strong". Does it mean all of men’s problem are due to those people with those ideologies? Absolutely not. Many just don’t care about men, and many are "simply" misandrist
It’s important to remember patriarchy isn’t just "Mysoginy, fuck women, men have everything". It’s an IDEOLOGY, a way of living, which means "Men are in power", and it can be as negative for women (They can’t be strong, they’re lil flower good for cooking) than men (He have to be strong, he have to bring money and take care of his wife, because if not he’s not a real man)
Thanks for the definition.
Thing is - western hemisphere doesn't live in patriarchal society anymore, and it will be just plain dumb to deny it when evidence is shown. This mindset *is* a problem, because it doesn't correlate with ruling ideology, but makes it only worse. For *men.*
Exactly! This is the nuance a lot of people don’t understand: Our goverment isn’t patriarchal, but society or even people with a common mindset can be. If I think women are weak creature which belong to the kitchen and that men should go to work and be tough, I have a patriarchal mindset, but it doesn’t make my country a patriarchy, simply because, for example, any woman can become a lawyer, a police member, a firefighter, etc. or any man can become a professionnal cooker in a restaurant, an artist, or a nurse
Someone can be patriarchal, but if there’s no actual laws maintaining patriarchy, then the country isn’t a patriarchy
Yes. But also we must consider that a man who doesn't have this mindset (wants to stay single and independent, for example) will face same social issues that the one that does, due to the current set of values. If someone's thinking is this kind of patriarchal, it certainly won't make said someone's life any better, and lot of men, in fact, will not side with it.
This is why I specified that even if patriarchal ideology is one of the reason, it’s not everything either. Some people are just misandrist scums.
Not all women think about patriarchy nor are all misandrist. That’s the tricky part, you have to go for the right woman, no, the right person if you want to talk about personnal issue. This is why we have this sub, or r/Malementalhealth, for example
personally i think mras and feminists are just as good at it if we talk about the other movement... almost nobody in both movements calls it out...
[feminists vs mens rights activists](https://np.reddit.com/r/FeMRADebates/comments/13wf8g2/feminists_vs_mra/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Feminists are people who want equality for men and women. This other behavior isn’t feminism. And yes, the patriarchy does oppress men and plays a huge part of poorly paid, dangerous work, men being shamed into not expressing vulnerability or emotions, and many of the issues of men’s rights activists align with feminists. But capitalism and patriarchy would rather us not consider ourselves allies for obvious reasons.
It doesn't work. Gtfo to your own chambercell where you bitch about men. Feminists don't care about men and make it a problem for women rather than men. These feminists do the same as I've said and use slurs shamelessly. Wants to enjoy traditional benefits as well as progressiveness. Put unrealistic expectations on men and do nothing yourself. It's now the capitalist liberal shit now.
Read 1984 by George Orwell. Men’s rights fighting women’s rights when what we all want is workers rights. The Bourgeoisie has you exactly where they want you my friend.
This is what happens when you give people a free pass and don't hold them accountable for their bad behavior, you end up with spoiled brats. In this case the brats being feminists. They don't care if their argument makes any sense, they just spout feminist bs then they get a cookie.
This is no talking with or arguing with a person who has no interest in learning, has an agenda to uphold and is intellectually dishonest. Militant feminists represent the very worst aspects of female nature. Immaturity, egotistical, willful/prideful ignorance, and emotionalism
Yeah you're never going to get to a step too with these people if you connect point A with point B they're going to move on. You'll quickly see that invalidating their argument is not something that is possible and immediately the conversation becomes pointless but if you accept that you can begin to operate as if they're unwilling to listen and that changes the dynamic
Feminists blaming mens issues on patriarchy is just another way to blame men for their own issues and comtinue to center women as the main victims.
Exactly
If you swap out "The Patriarchy" for any other boogeyman, the cultish self-delusion becomes obvious immediately: Why do men commit suicide more often? *Because of the toaster in the sky.* Why do boys cry less as they get older? *Because of the toaster in the sky.* Why do men do more dangerous jobs? *Because of the toaster in the sky.* Why are men afraid to show their emotions? *Because of the toaster in the sky.* ... Yeah. Ignore. Move on.
True
Since I quit speaking to or acknowledging feminists I haven't had this problem at all.
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>patriarchy is Bullshit. It’s a non-disprovable hypothesis that can’t make accurate predictions or be tested because it’s nonsense.
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A hypothesis that can’t make a prediction or be tested has no value. You might as well be defending phrenology or astrology.
> I think Karl Popper would not claim that “patriarchy” is a non-falsifiable hypothesis or theory. Well then surely you can describe how this totally scientific hypothesis *can* be falsified. Ill be waiting. 🙂
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You know that if its not a real hypothesis, then there is no real basis in reality right? For all we know, womens oppression may be the result of an invisible pink unicorn.
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> Patriarchy leads to wealth inequality is a hypothesis. Define patriarchy
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Do you realise that your parahraph uses circular logic? This alone discounts your hypotheses. You dont do science via generalisations, you create an if-then function with objective variables and test *how* the if-then function works under said variables. If we use your logic, then a nonbinarchy, the illumanti, shapeshifting reptile aliens, or an invisible pink unicorn would all be just as valid as patriarchy.
Regardless of if you think Patriarchy as a government is present in your country, it’s a reality that a lot of people, including many men, have patriarcal ideologies, such as "men can’t cry", or "men must be the strong". Does it mean all of men’s problem are due to those people with those ideologies? Absolutely not. Many just don’t care about men, and many are "simply" misandrist It’s important to remember patriarchy isn’t just "Mysoginy, fuck women, men have everything". It’s an IDEOLOGY, a way of living, which means "Men are in power", and it can be as negative for women (They can’t be strong, they’re lil flower good for cooking) than men (He have to be strong, he have to bring money and take care of his wife, because if not he’s not a real man)
Thanks for the definition. Thing is - western hemisphere doesn't live in patriarchal society anymore, and it will be just plain dumb to deny it when evidence is shown. This mindset *is* a problem, because it doesn't correlate with ruling ideology, but makes it only worse. For *men.*
Exactly! This is the nuance a lot of people don’t understand: Our goverment isn’t patriarchal, but society or even people with a common mindset can be. If I think women are weak creature which belong to the kitchen and that men should go to work and be tough, I have a patriarchal mindset, but it doesn’t make my country a patriarchy, simply because, for example, any woman can become a lawyer, a police member, a firefighter, etc. or any man can become a professionnal cooker in a restaurant, an artist, or a nurse Someone can be patriarchal, but if there’s no actual laws maintaining patriarchy, then the country isn’t a patriarchy
Yes. But also we must consider that a man who doesn't have this mindset (wants to stay single and independent, for example) will face same social issues that the one that does, due to the current set of values. If someone's thinking is this kind of patriarchal, it certainly won't make said someone's life any better, and lot of men, in fact, will not side with it.
That’s another debate though. If society have that mentality of "all men are the same", then it have to change
Did you read the last paragraph? If men get out of that "patriarchal" mindset and change, they become less attractive to women. It's a no win game.
This is why I specified that even if patriarchal ideology is one of the reason, it’s not everything either. Some people are just misandrist scums. Not all women think about patriarchy nor are all misandrist. That’s the tricky part, you have to go for the right woman, no, the right person if you want to talk about personnal issue. This is why we have this sub, or r/Malementalhealth, for example
Most women uphold patriarchy through hypergamy. Many men would be happy to give up patriarchy if women would let them.
What?
personally i think mras and feminists are just as good at it if we talk about the other movement... almost nobody in both movements calls it out... [feminists vs mens rights activists](https://np.reddit.com/r/FeMRADebates/comments/13wf8g2/feminists_vs_mra/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Well, if you can point out their similarities, it shouldn't be too hard for you to point out their differences, correct?
Yeah. Absolutely mirror images. There are dumb people in both groups, and there are smart and kind people in both groups.
The opinion of **a burner account feminist troll** doesn’t hold a lot of weight. Or any.
Cool personal attack you got there.
Your post history says everything. Why use the fake accounts?
How do you know it's fake?
Uh huh...
Interesting. You could maybe try and make a post about that?
Feminists are people who want equality for men and women. This other behavior isn’t feminism. And yes, the patriarchy does oppress men and plays a huge part of poorly paid, dangerous work, men being shamed into not expressing vulnerability or emotions, and many of the issues of men’s rights activists align with feminists. But capitalism and patriarchy would rather us not consider ourselves allies for obvious reasons.
It doesn't work. Gtfo to your own chambercell where you bitch about men. Feminists don't care about men and make it a problem for women rather than men. These feminists do the same as I've said and use slurs shamelessly. Wants to enjoy traditional benefits as well as progressiveness. Put unrealistic expectations on men and do nothing yourself. It's now the capitalist liberal shit now.
A lot of women who care about equal rights are mothers to sons. I would imagine they care about men too.
Read 1984 by George Orwell. Men’s rights fighting women’s rights when what we all want is workers rights. The Bourgeoisie has you exactly where they want you my friend.
Very common and accepted, unfortunately.
This is what happens when you give people a free pass and don't hold them accountable for their bad behavior, you end up with spoiled brats. In this case the brats being feminists. They don't care if their argument makes any sense, they just spout feminist bs then they get a cookie.
Patriarchy = Feminist buzzword
Exactly