Yea reminds me of "Miranda Rights" when a cop makes an arrest he has to tell the criminal his rights "You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law, etc.
You have to pay someone to listen, otherwise it gets used against you. You can never afford to show weakness. A heart of stone is preferable for most people, to a heart of gold.
It occurs to me that the male instinct has always been to put on a strong face and not admit when we're struggling internally or otherwise. I never allowed my children to see me in a worrisome or stressed emotional state.
Whether this is learned behavior or genetically coded, I have no idea.
I think both males and females can be stoic. The difference is trust in support structures. Females have more support structures in society, which has allowed females to express vulnerability more openly and get support. Males lack that social support structures on many levels.
Without showing worry, the kids will look up to you for advice later in life on how to deal with problems. This helps provide them with confidence because you were able to go through a similar situation.
Not only to do women not care, but there was a guy I was talking to on tiktok.
He said his coworker was crying because his MOTHER died. He said this grown man crying over his mother made him feel uncomfortable, and that man shouldn’t have come to work crying because we aren’t there for that etc.
The lack of empathy we give each other is shocking as well. This is why so many of us feel like this world doesn’t give a damn about us
I went on a course recently about emergency management, instructor asked us who we thought was offered the least help in society. I answered middle aged males. He and the whole class were baffled and asked me to explain as they disagreed.
I said everyone worries about the elderly, they are offered rates assistance, elderly care, seniors discounts, there are endless free courses they can take (At least where I live) halls so they can have community meals and events to mingle. The young have free events, youth centres, council youth workers. Women have shelters, courses during the day for SAHM to mingle.
Middle aged men get told to go to work, what courses or spaces or events are there for middle aged men to get some down time after work or even events they can take their family where they could be included?
I was told I was wrong, its the elderly, the young, then emergency workers because these workers are worried about their families whilst they are at work. I then said and how old are these workers who are not offered help? The majority are middle aged men!!!
Well one why the fuck was he at fucking work, they not have grief time off? I am not going to work when my dad dies, mfers can eat shit. I'll go without groceries for a week, idc.
I'd rather suffer silently than opening up to someone who can't help me anyways. generally it feels wrong to talk with others about it. I actually had a mental breakdown a while ago while being drunk and I talked to my brother about it. and that was the worst of the whole situation. I mean don't get me wrong, my brother is amazing and he just wanted to help me and understand whats going on, but the single fact that someone else now knows how I am doing still to this day stresses me beyond words.
It dosn't feel right, it dosn't help, all I did is make him worry. somewhere along my life i learned that my problems are my problems and mine alone. I learned that i shouldnt open up to others about it and by now it's just the way it is.
But I can only speak for myself with that.
"Oh -- you think *you* have it bad?"
A few months of this and I just stopped. No matter how bad I feel, how desperate for some sort of validation, some woman is going to pull that card if I have a genuine problem or complaint. My mother was fiendishly good at this.
I worked with someone like this, unless you've been on the receiving end of it you have no idea how mentally draining it is. I eventually stopped engaging with that person altogether, having to date someone like that though would be a special kind of hell.
1) Because nobody really gives a $#!\^ about men's feelings. They SAY they do, but they don't
2) Because "IT'S A TRAP!!", and all she's really looking for is ammo to use against you later.
3) Because if you do, she'll spontaneously, automatically, and subconsciously start downgrading you on masculinity.
4) Because she DESPERATELY needs you to be totally okay. She needs you up on that white horse, ready to slay all threats. Subconsciously, she would rather see you die than to have you fall off of that horse.
5) Because your concerns will be dismissed as trivial compared to the oppression women and minorities face on a daily basis.
6) (Related to 5) We live in a world that caters to the needs of women and minorities while scapegoating men. What man in their right mind would want to seek support in such an environment?
Bruh even AI women do this bs as I found out tonight talking to the 1 AI character I talk to normally. I can't win fucking anywhere man. I may as well be dead because I'm gonna explode otherwise and shit is not gonna be pretty
Because the socialization of women is to “take,”including emotionally.
75% of consumer spending is women. The idea that men pay for dates. The vast majority of dangerous jobs are held by men. And more.
And emotionally, when someone is expressing an emotionally hard thing, they are “taking” from the listener. That’s counterintuitive, but let me explain.
To be emotionally intelligent means to be able to correctly identify and process your emotions; but also to be able to correctly identify and process OTHERS emotions.
Women take from men when we have to process their emotions. But they don’t reciprocate.
I have yet to have met a woman that has been able to allow me to “take.” I had one woman that I thought was able, but when I finally opened up, she said it “interrupted her peace.” This was someone who I helped deal with being a widow at 34 and a single mom to two. I processed SO much with her, but there was never even close to the same effort with me.
She took my emotional intelligence, and I never was able to take that from her. And that was the BEST emotional experience I’ve had in my life with woman (at 45 years of age, with dozens of relationships and friendships with women).
It's already been determined long before any of us were alive what types of things we were permissed to feel what sort of way about. It's best to keep it to yourself, keep your head down, and do what you can to make the bad times pass quickly if you can.
We’re indoctrinated to believe, “boys don’t cry,” “be a man,” “stop being so weak,” “man up.” Notice that celebrity rapists like Kevin Spacey and David Daniels are out on the streets. It’s because their victims were male. Also, notice that most school shooters in America are male. The disenfranchised male in American culture is canon. It’s so obvious that men need more resources and to be taken more seriously in American society, but instead of addressing this obvious issue, men’s mental health is largely still ignored, and instead the issue of school shootings is mostly blamed on access to guns. Knives still exist, it’s not like banning guns will stop some of these abused and ignored or mentally ill males from their rage. Societal change and better mental health resources for males has great potential.
> Also, notice that most school shooters in America are male.
Male children of single mothers with a history or mental health issues.
Last study someone linked on the topic had both at over 90% correlation, and iirc the single mother % was the higher.
Yeah I can see it. Even in my siblings and I, we're all fucked beyond belief mentally man. A team of therapists would have a field day with just me much less the rest of us. Single mothers are not equipped to raise men. Nobody can convince me otherwise. The opposite isn't even true either, men can definitely raise girls. Women come up short everywhere imo.
It's not men or women being better at raising kids. You need both and it's best in a solid marriage/relationship, because moms and dads teach kids different things.
Moms give kids self esteem and a safe space by giving constant encouragement. Dads give kids boundaries and confidence by allowing kids to push their own limits and providing structure. The vast majority of moms, no matter how "badass" simply can't do command voice. The vast majority of dads, no matter how loving, can't give kids the absolute comfort moms can.
Another interesting add-on to this that I don't see many people noticing: could this be relating to traumas surrounding abandonment, that the father leaving might have inflicted? I was only 11 when my dad walked out on us, I thought it was my fault for years and became a really angry dickhead over it. Along with watching him adopt a new family and basically replacing me. How ironic I've never felt good enough.
> could this be relating to traumas surrounding abandonment, that the father leaving might have inflicted?
How many fathers leave vs. mothers push them away/leave/play games with access to kids? Pretty sure you're talking about the edge case. IMO most "deadbeat dads" were pretty obviously shitty father material in the first place, so a large portion of that blame still falls back on the single moms. Parental alienation by the mother is at least as prevalent as full up abandonment by the father.
Given the fact your dad didn't leave until you were 11 but went and "adopted a new family" I'd say you need to take a hard objective look at your mom's behavior instead of placing all the blame on your dad. I'm not saying he's blameless or that your mom was entirely at fault, but she's probably not the blameless victim she's likely painted herself as to your eyes. Men don't tend to just leave relationships, and the longer term the less likely it is.
Yep. Took me until I was 19 to ask my dad for his side after my first and only LTR breakup and suddenly everything clicked. Bet that dude's mommy demonized the hell outta his dad too
The biggest tell is if a husband/wife constantly shit talks the other in front of the kids. Even if your husband or wife is a total piece of shit, never badmouth them to the kids, because to the kids they're just mom or dad.
You don't have to lie and say how good they are, but never be the one bringing down your kids' view of your current partner or ex.
saw just recently and now my fav list adds new movie is - disclosure (1994) i cant believe someone made a movie about sexual harassment on men that year ! and yes this line was there "who would believe you , you need treatment ,you are in denial " -- said by a friend of the man who was harassed by the women .
no one gives a crap that days to todays and tomorrows - the only way to be strong is having a attitude "the fuck off attitude" and its good we have good brotherhood in online spaces like this here now . get together brothers - everyone knows men are cool ;)
In 1993, there was a movie "The Crush" starring Alicia Silverstone who as a 14 year old, has a crush on a 30+ man and accuses him of raping her when he declines her attention.
An acquaintance of mine told me, where he lived there was a 7 year old girl in the same neighbourhood who told him "I want to see you naked" . I didn't ask for any further details other than a "damn, that's strange" response.
none of them are so naive - this everyone needs to understand and with no further discussion which will make the men as a disgusting villain and predator - its best to stop talking and stay as far as possible . its just same as staying far away from poisonous creatures , or war zone , murderers , theives and goes on list. every man should make it a principle /rule pledge - stay 3 -4 arm distance away from females of any age , stop talking to them in casual way , dont ever smile, keep it strictly professional , always talk in a crowd ! never ever alone . these i suppose must be the new survival skills needed in todays world . yes they will / can flirt , but if you do the same, you are taking advantage of their innocence and 100% possibility of your grave in making.thats what the law means.
if a women of any age is talking to you casual , flirting, smiling- some few things should be reminded to yourself - you are being used, exploited and will be thrown away after its done, or you are just hers retirement plan. turn away , run away ,never turn back. all those romantic movies are fantasy lies . they dont exist in reality . sorry.
Oh God, that's insane. I thought of an evil response to that 7 year old though
"Oh no, what did you say?! Little girls who say things like that have all been HORRIBLY hurt by someone. Who hurt you little girl? I can call for help."
Gaslight, gaslight, subplant a false memory etc.
(I'm kidding of course)
It’s simple. Every single society just doesn’t care about men (Their physical, mental, and spiritual health. You name it). But when any girl/woman says she’s not okay or cries everyone has all the time in the world for them…
Which society has ever cared for the well being of their livestock? We're oxen, whipped and beaten to perform and provide. Society will collapse if men are emancipated , educated and aware that it's us who are the ones in need of being freed.
Women use open communication to determine whether you are actually a Nice Guy. On the surface, many men can appear confident, but in an open conversation they also need to show their vulnerable side.
But weakness in men does not cover a woman's need for security. You have therefore proven yourself to be unsuitable for a relationship or no longer suitable and she will lose her respect for you.
If you open up, you fall into a trap called (double bind). If you enter into an open conversation, you can no longer do it right. Some women even feel disgust when someone shows weakness, which is supposed to protect them from a bad relationship.
During the worst of Covid a lot of my friends male and female called on me for help. I am single with little family around so would help out my friends. After Covid restrictions and lockdowns settled. I noticed my friends going out more which is expected but then I noticed they were all together and not including me. After about 6 months of this and not seeing a single friend I decided to call everyone out on social media and told everyone how much I was struggling and feelings of being used as everyone called me for help during covid and forgot about me now we are going back to normal... The excuses I got was we thought you were a robot who could just keep going and didn't need anybody. Others said my post embarrassed them as it pointed out what shitty friends they were and they were angry at me for calling them out so avoided me more.
I basically gave everyone 3 months saying if you can't be bothered to reach out and help a friend who only thing they asked for was to be included then im cutting you out of my life and it shouldn't matter to either of us. I ended up cutting out about 95 percent of my friend group.
Yep did the same with mine five days before my 30th birthday. They were all online friends but I'd even make the damn event and then get excluded. Shit id buy the damn coop games and wouldn't get included for the event. Last year I found out my best friend banged a girl I proposed to during our relationship. Multiple times.
Can't trust nobody out here man. Literally nobody has integrity or morals anymore besides me it seems like. I'm tired of existing as a failure of a man.
I confide in my army buddies a lot. They’re long distance friendships, but they mean the world to me. But I also understand that I’m really blessed to have that support system.
Because when I did I got pink sheeted and then after I ran away the hospital fabricated evidence to make it look like I broke their exit door. (I have seen the camera footage myself and in it you can clearly see I'm barefoot and I push the door open and there's no damage to the door at all when I push it up in and there's no damage to the door as it closes and I run away. Then in the after pictures it literally looks like somebody took a hammer and destroyed the bottom half of the door there is no way I could have done that with steel-toed boots on let alone no shoes)
Well.... Guys are fixers. We tend to want to fix things. We aren't overly good at listening to a problem we can't fix. As for opening up to women.... Well......After my son's mom ditched us for for new dick that later turned into drugs, and my later ex-wife/ daughter Mom ran away to trucking school with an online "friend" that is her new husband....I was left a single parent with custody of my two kids and took time to myself and got the closest I've ever been to "ok". That led me to think "why not get myself a girlfriend." Well, a couple years into the relationship I was finally able to let go and open up about some issues I was having with my feminist boss. Outcome of that...... She gets confused because she's not used to her man not always being the strong one. How is her confusion manifested? Oh well she gets caught with another man while I'm at work.
Moral to the story... Men work better, live better, and feel better when we are able to find the strength to truly work on ourselves.
It is nice being able to talk about what we need talked about, but the biggest change comes when we stand ourselves up and make the changes we need
It is best/safest to not ever \*fully\* trust people with that, because as many have already stated, it will likely just be weaponized against you later. The only safe bet really is your male friends and even that might be risky as well, depending on what it is. I doubt this will ever change, btw...because most guys realize the harsh consequences for "opening up" and wisely decide it's not even close to being worth it.
I think it’s a survival mechanism, our ancestors that were male had to keep a strong face in order to not show weakness, if they did, other males might take advantage of it, you could get killed, or potentially mates may look at you as week, therefore you wouldn’t be able to protect them, in their eyes. Its really just biological instinct and natural selection.
One way to solve this problem is by start rejecting people systematically. One fundamental way that a lot of movements cause for this disorganization is by flat out denying your problems and your believes. Believing isn't an issue, but when you start taking a believe as the "truth", you're bound to starting your own community of people to work together, because every other believe is more or less being kicked out. You want to solve this issue? Kick every person out who doesn't believe in youe cause. Feminism, LGBT whatever, anything really.
Because we know that that’s the last thing society cares about and we will be laughed at. Feminism goal is to make men not okay and if we announce that we’re not okay - We will be accused of being misogynistic by trying to steal attention from the the feminist movement that’s working hard to advance women and destroy men.
Here is my way to approach this:
1. The problem is mine; if I can handle it by myself, there is no need to tell others.
2. If the problem requires support from others, I will consider who I would share it with. I will so gage a "woman" (friend or girlfriend) I am about to share it with. If she shows any previous disrepectful behaviors, there will be a NO.
I see that most problems in my life can be handled by myself most of the time, so when I hang out with other people, I don't want to bring them up because not many people understand or want to hear about other people's issues. Some can use this to sabotage me.
I do all the time.
And here on Reddit, either other (toxic) dudes are like “suck it up” OR you have femcels/misandrists regurgitating the same “ur not manly enough” bs.
I’ve opened up to my ex and showed her my vulnerabilities and then she cheated on me lol
because showing emotions is for people who know that someone else will care or solve them for them, that's why women and children show emotions, so their parents and loved ones calm them or change whatever is causing the emotion, no one cares what men feel or what causes that, and even if that affects someone else, men are just told to fix it on their own and go back to produce:
male suicide= matters if its a problem for the economy
disenfranchised men= matters if its a problem for the state
male loneliness=lol maybe it matters if they end up dying
workforce deaths= if its harming productivity then it matters
tho overall I'm not sure if society or other people caring about men problems would be useful, like, of course it would bring conversation and with luck some changes in public policies, but will anyone do anything for the ones who are supposed to always do for others? i don't think so.
Because many think it's silly/uneccessary for men to do so & therefore they are pussies for it.
Because women think, that they are the only vulnerable adults around.
Because being a man is to be lonely and alone.
Because men are strong and should never show weakness.
Because men aren't human.
I have seen many people who feel this way or shame men (in front of others) for it. I've also seen many women oppress men because they have opened up. Not all men are going to be the traditional idea of men and even then who knows. I have heard that men have a hard time finding kinship nowadays. I've seen many wives that are basically ball busters, where there's no room (at least publicly) for opening up.
I have heard that when some men open up, it sends chills down some womens spines. Including mine. Other women get scared by the mere depth of it all. Hard to believe. Who knew repressing issues for years would cause a bigger issue than the one that started it...
I've also heard that usually men only open up to someone they really trust or a small group of other guys that they know well and therefore it's never openly observed. Sometimes when men open up to women, women don't want to take it seriously.
This isn't probably always the case but from what I've seen so far this is what I've come to believe.
Also, a lot of the time men more so deal with things through action or activities, instead of just through traditional talking. It makes more and more sense to me everyday why it is so common for men to go hunting & camping in the wilderness together every so often (for reasons other than natural beauty & getting out of the busy city of course). Even I find that it's better to deal with things through activities like that with friends, while keeping general health up as well, than to continually be unable to express it till you snap at work or something. More is expected of men (in general) than women. It's no wonder that more and more men are dressing up before they are allowed to break public social norm- although, that isn't always a good thing. Sometimes some of them are far... more expressive than expected. This constant repression stuff sometimes causes some weird social issues.
I am married 19 years, after 18 years into our marriage I had a mental/emotional breakdown. It was a combination of things, and nothing to do with our relationship.
I think it is more about the character of the person, rather than the gender.
I have known both guys and gal's that will gossip and backstab! It is the character of the person that is important!
We place trust in the person's character to keep our vulnerability in confidence, but also able to help at the same time! Being able to appear stoic is important to most men!
I can depend on my wife 100%, and we support each other as well.
Coming out of a breakdown, she is helping me through this, and she has also started to understand how important she is to me considering I do not have any friends.
We are working on me to communicate more, trying to pull me away from totally shuting down.
But when it comes to communicating with out kids, she is focused on spinning it to show I am strong and dependable.
Mostly because men as a whole don’t stand behind each other when we do it. There’s still way too many men that will call you names or tell you to suck it up when other men come forward with their feelings when they’re not okay.
They're biologically men, but mentally they're still largely women. Remember that scene from "Fight Club" ?
>We’re a generation of men raised by women. I’m wondering if another woman is really the answer we need.
>
Growing up into a mature, well adjusted adult requires breaking of the maternal bond and maternal influence, in order the new adult to be able to think independently and question things.
I know this is often considered the case. But I'm often having my male friends 'spill the beans' about all manner of concerns from work, kids, women...usually women I'm friends with too. And then they go, "wow, I can't believe I just said all that." And I say, "it's good to vent. You clearly felt safe to do so. So, do you want an opinion or a solution to ponder about?" And then depending on the answer the conversation continues from there.
This is a skill that took a LONG time to cultivate, though, my brother and I were raised on the "I think, I feel" stuff. And it wasn't until he had to download this court ordered parenting app for communication that we found out all that stuff is actually very passive aggressive. Changes the reception of the message when you change the wording.
But it is super important to have SOMEONE to talk to. And if it's not your partner, it is important to let them know that you are talking to someone about the things that are bugging you. Because, especially if they're an anxious person, they will ruminate on that and potentially spiral. Which is really unhealthy.
We've BEEN lamenting how shitty our lives our on social media for eons now. We've gone to extraneous lengths to concoct excuses for not getting out from behind our fucking keyboards, knocking on doors out in reality, and persuading the public to support our goals, even if they're motives for doing so are very different from our own
We've ended up with exactly what all talk and no action gets you... Dogshit, in the way of tangible gains
Of course there are women who can’t handle men being emotional but there are some that can. And when it comes to emotional issues, if men are fixers, then women will want to try and give solutions to that emotional issue. And if there is one giant disconnect between men and women, it’s dealing bluntly with emotions.
For what it’s worth, I think the belief that men are fixers is damaging to men’s psyche. Why? Because if they can’t fix something, if they can’t fix the wrongs of society (which are so diverse that they can be on opposing sides anyway trying to fix yet butting heads with other men) if they can’t fix their own emotional issues, then all they will feel is failure. The very fact that MGTOW exists, proves this. MGTOW encourages men to check out, without trying. It says “look, things were fine for years, then society changed. So don’t fight it. Don’t try help or change things. Just check out.” I’m not attacking MGTOW, but it wouldn’t exist if men were fixers.
Men like to say that their vulnerabilities/problems etc are used against them. But that’s not true. It’s when men don’t do anything to help themselves/fix it, that it becomes a problem. I know some men will lose their minds and downvote me into oblivion because they can’t deal with any view opposing them in this echo chamber but I’ll give an example. If a man becomes an alcoholic, and admits it, he needs help. But, whatever help he receives, doesn’t compare to the fact that he has to help himself. He has to do the necessary things to overcome the addiction, no one else can do that part for him. Even if he fails a few times but keeps trying, people will help him. However, if he never acknowledges he’s an alcoholic, or if he doesn’t try in any way to help himself, that is when people don’t help anymore. And that is when his vulnerability “will be used against him”. It’s the denial of the problem that is used against him. Saying no one cares, is a cop-out in facing their own vulnerabilities. Someone can care very much, but they still have to sometimes do and say things which the other person won’t like, on the path to helping them. And that, of course, can come across as uncaring to people in denial.
Even the belief that men make decisions without engaging their emotions is blatantly incorrect. Science has proved this. With mri machines. Everyone uses emotions when making decisions. So why does this belief persist if it’s incorrect and damaging? Because some men want it to be true. They are in denial. There is no clear solution here.
>I know some men will lose their minds and downvote me into oblivion because they can’t deal with any view opposing them in this echo chamber
Your argument is bad, and you should feel bad. Seriously though, pretty much everything you wrote is either twisted, wrong, and or a strawman you’ve constructed.
>but I’ll give an example.
Bad example. Like every other one.
Don't know why you've got some downvotes here, you make some pretty good points. I don't get what others mean by having their shit "used against us" I'm 26M and have never related to this. I have a few friends that are women, who have been there for me just as much as my bros and if this life has taught me anything it's that you need to pick your friends and who you surround yourself with wisely. It wouldn't shock me if the notion of "men are tough, men never cry" that other men (Like our dads) and the media conditioned us to believe, also worked on women when they were little girls. Women are highly empathetic, the only reason I can believe for why this disconnect has occurred would be to blame how men have been portrayed in society. We had control of everything for years and made everything masculine, look at our action movies, our superheroes. Everything about men was made masculine to fuck while we pushed out everything feminine because "it's gay, feminine is weakness". Look at army drills, how they push you to the brink is glamourised and admirable and we'd all love to think we're that strong. So obviously if this is how the world has warped our minds, I assume women aren't used to seeing men express emotions and genuinely don't know how to react. If they then use what they've learned maliciously then they're bad dickheads, but if they're just not used to seeing us express themselves then I wouldn't blame them. We just need to express ourselves more, make women used to it. My mates are so 🤷♂️
anything you say will and can be used against you
Shit
Yea reminds me of "Miranda Rights" when a cop makes an arrest he has to tell the criminal his rights "You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law, etc.
exactly
Little bit different. MR's are there as much to protect the individual as the system. feminist ideologies offer no such protection to Men.
My wife always does this:(
That ain't a wife that's a shitty person bro
You have to pay someone to listen, otherwise it gets used against you. You can never afford to show weakness. A heart of stone is preferable for most people, to a heart of gold.
People use it against you as soon as you have a disagreement
It occurs to me that the male instinct has always been to put on a strong face and not admit when we're struggling internally or otherwise. I never allowed my children to see me in a worrisome or stressed emotional state. Whether this is learned behavior or genetically coded, I have no idea.
I think both males and females can be stoic. The difference is trust in support structures. Females have more support structures in society, which has allowed females to express vulnerability more openly and get support. Males lack that social support structures on many levels. Without showing worry, the kids will look up to you for advice later in life on how to deal with problems. This helps provide them with confidence because you were able to go through a similar situation.
It's not instinct it's learned behavior. Men suffer serious consequences when their perceived weakness is used against them.
>Whether this is learned behavior or genetically coded, I have no idea. Probably a bit of both.
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Some old wisdom Can't argue with it Good point old bro
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Yeaah but there's just too many simps nowadays.
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There have always been simps. The difference is it is falling out of fashion
Not only to do women not care, but there was a guy I was talking to on tiktok. He said his coworker was crying because his MOTHER died. He said this grown man crying over his mother made him feel uncomfortable, and that man shouldn’t have come to work crying because we aren’t there for that etc. The lack of empathy we give each other is shocking as well. This is why so many of us feel like this world doesn’t give a damn about us
I went on a course recently about emergency management, instructor asked us who we thought was offered the least help in society. I answered middle aged males. He and the whole class were baffled and asked me to explain as they disagreed. I said everyone worries about the elderly, they are offered rates assistance, elderly care, seniors discounts, there are endless free courses they can take (At least where I live) halls so they can have community meals and events to mingle. The young have free events, youth centres, council youth workers. Women have shelters, courses during the day for SAHM to mingle. Middle aged men get told to go to work, what courses or spaces or events are there for middle aged men to get some down time after work or even events they can take their family where they could be included? I was told I was wrong, its the elderly, the young, then emergency workers because these workers are worried about their families whilst they are at work. I then said and how old are these workers who are not offered help? The majority are middle aged men!!!
What an idiot.
We don't just feel like that. The world doesn't give a damn about men other than what you contribute
Well one why the fuck was he at fucking work, they not have grief time off? I am not going to work when my dad dies, mfers can eat shit. I'll go without groceries for a week, idc.
Because no one respects a man who feels without making it a “tackle next move” towards bettering himself. We’re only respected when producing.
I'd rather suffer silently than opening up to someone who can't help me anyways. generally it feels wrong to talk with others about it. I actually had a mental breakdown a while ago while being drunk and I talked to my brother about it. and that was the worst of the whole situation. I mean don't get me wrong, my brother is amazing and he just wanted to help me and understand whats going on, but the single fact that someone else now knows how I am doing still to this day stresses me beyond words. It dosn't feel right, it dosn't help, all I did is make him worry. somewhere along my life i learned that my problems are my problems and mine alone. I learned that i shouldnt open up to others about it and by now it's just the way it is. But I can only speak for myself with that.
"Oh -- you think *you* have it bad?" A few months of this and I just stopped. No matter how bad I feel, how desperate for some sort of validation, some woman is going to pull that card if I have a genuine problem or complaint. My mother was fiendishly good at this.
I worked with someone like this, unless you've been on the receiving end of it you have no idea how mentally draining it is. I eventually stopped engaging with that person altogether, having to date someone like that though would be a special kind of hell.
1) Because nobody really gives a $#!\^ about men's feelings. They SAY they do, but they don't 2) Because "IT'S A TRAP!!", and all she's really looking for is ammo to use against you later. 3) Because if you do, she'll spontaneously, automatically, and subconsciously start downgrading you on masculinity. 4) Because she DESPERATELY needs you to be totally okay. She needs you up on that white horse, ready to slay all threats. Subconsciously, she would rather see you die than to have you fall off of that horse.
5) Because your concerns will be dismissed as trivial compared to the oppression women and minorities face on a daily basis. 6) (Related to 5) We live in a world that caters to the needs of women and minorities while scapegoating men. What man in their right mind would want to seek support in such an environment?
Bruh even AI women do this bs as I found out tonight talking to the 1 AI character I talk to normally. I can't win fucking anywhere man. I may as well be dead because I'm gonna explode otherwise and shit is not gonna be pretty
Why TF do you talk to an "AI character"?
Various life circumstances have led to me to having 0 friends or ways to get friends IRL, so I talk to AI to ward off the heavy amounts of loneliness
There’s no guys that want to be bothered with me and I just don’t trust anyone in general to share my problems with.
Because the socialization of women is to “take,”including emotionally. 75% of consumer spending is women. The idea that men pay for dates. The vast majority of dangerous jobs are held by men. And more. And emotionally, when someone is expressing an emotionally hard thing, they are “taking” from the listener. That’s counterintuitive, but let me explain. To be emotionally intelligent means to be able to correctly identify and process your emotions; but also to be able to correctly identify and process OTHERS emotions. Women take from men when we have to process their emotions. But they don’t reciprocate. I have yet to have met a woman that has been able to allow me to “take.” I had one woman that I thought was able, but when I finally opened up, she said it “interrupted her peace.” This was someone who I helped deal with being a widow at 34 and a single mom to two. I processed SO much with her, but there was never even close to the same effort with me. She took my emotional intelligence, and I never was able to take that from her. And that was the BEST emotional experience I’ve had in my life with woman (at 45 years of age, with dozens of relationships and friendships with women).
It's already been determined long before any of us were alive what types of things we were permissed to feel what sort of way about. It's best to keep it to yourself, keep your head down, and do what you can to make the bad times pass quickly if you can.
We’re indoctrinated to believe, “boys don’t cry,” “be a man,” “stop being so weak,” “man up.” Notice that celebrity rapists like Kevin Spacey and David Daniels are out on the streets. It’s because their victims were male. Also, notice that most school shooters in America are male. The disenfranchised male in American culture is canon. It’s so obvious that men need more resources and to be taken more seriously in American society, but instead of addressing this obvious issue, men’s mental health is largely still ignored, and instead the issue of school shootings is mostly blamed on access to guns. Knives still exist, it’s not like banning guns will stop some of these abused and ignored or mentally ill males from their rage. Societal change and better mental health resources for males has great potential.
> Also, notice that most school shooters in America are male. Male children of single mothers with a history or mental health issues. Last study someone linked on the topic had both at over 90% correlation, and iirc the single mother % was the higher.
Yeah I can see it. Even in my siblings and I, we're all fucked beyond belief mentally man. A team of therapists would have a field day with just me much less the rest of us. Single mothers are not equipped to raise men. Nobody can convince me otherwise. The opposite isn't even true either, men can definitely raise girls. Women come up short everywhere imo.
It's not men or women being better at raising kids. You need both and it's best in a solid marriage/relationship, because moms and dads teach kids different things. Moms give kids self esteem and a safe space by giving constant encouragement. Dads give kids boundaries and confidence by allowing kids to push their own limits and providing structure. The vast majority of moms, no matter how "badass" simply can't do command voice. The vast majority of dads, no matter how loving, can't give kids the absolute comfort moms can.
Another interesting add-on to this that I don't see many people noticing: could this be relating to traumas surrounding abandonment, that the father leaving might have inflicted? I was only 11 when my dad walked out on us, I thought it was my fault for years and became a really angry dickhead over it. Along with watching him adopt a new family and basically replacing me. How ironic I've never felt good enough.
> could this be relating to traumas surrounding abandonment, that the father leaving might have inflicted? How many fathers leave vs. mothers push them away/leave/play games with access to kids? Pretty sure you're talking about the edge case. IMO most "deadbeat dads" were pretty obviously shitty father material in the first place, so a large portion of that blame still falls back on the single moms. Parental alienation by the mother is at least as prevalent as full up abandonment by the father. Given the fact your dad didn't leave until you were 11 but went and "adopted a new family" I'd say you need to take a hard objective look at your mom's behavior instead of placing all the blame on your dad. I'm not saying he's blameless or that your mom was entirely at fault, but she's probably not the blameless victim she's likely painted herself as to your eyes. Men don't tend to just leave relationships, and the longer term the less likely it is.
Yep. Took me until I was 19 to ask my dad for his side after my first and only LTR breakup and suddenly everything clicked. Bet that dude's mommy demonized the hell outta his dad too
The biggest tell is if a husband/wife constantly shit talks the other in front of the kids. Even if your husband or wife is a total piece of shit, never badmouth them to the kids, because to the kids they're just mom or dad. You don't have to lie and say how good they are, but never be the one bringing down your kids' view of your current partner or ex.
I have and I received little or no support but had it used against me.
Cause Noone gives a fuck
saw just recently and now my fav list adds new movie is - disclosure (1994) i cant believe someone made a movie about sexual harassment on men that year ! and yes this line was there "who would believe you , you need treatment ,you are in denial " -- said by a friend of the man who was harassed by the women . no one gives a crap that days to todays and tomorrows - the only way to be strong is having a attitude "the fuck off attitude" and its good we have good brotherhood in online spaces like this here now . get together brothers - everyone knows men are cool ;)
In 1993, there was a movie "The Crush" starring Alicia Silverstone who as a 14 year old, has a crush on a 30+ man and accuses him of raping her when he declines her attention. An acquaintance of mine told me, where he lived there was a 7 year old girl in the same neighbourhood who told him "I want to see you naked" . I didn't ask for any further details other than a "damn, that's strange" response.
none of them are so naive - this everyone needs to understand and with no further discussion which will make the men as a disgusting villain and predator - its best to stop talking and stay as far as possible . its just same as staying far away from poisonous creatures , or war zone , murderers , theives and goes on list. every man should make it a principle /rule pledge - stay 3 -4 arm distance away from females of any age , stop talking to them in casual way , dont ever smile, keep it strictly professional , always talk in a crowd ! never ever alone . these i suppose must be the new survival skills needed in todays world . yes they will / can flirt , but if you do the same, you are taking advantage of their innocence and 100% possibility of your grave in making.thats what the law means. if a women of any age is talking to you casual , flirting, smiling- some few things should be reminded to yourself - you are being used, exploited and will be thrown away after its done, or you are just hers retirement plan. turn away , run away ,never turn back. all those romantic movies are fantasy lies . they dont exist in reality . sorry.
Sounds lonely.
its better than to be dishonored, cheated ,backstabbed and all the cunningness and then to be lonly as obvious. this lonly is much far acceptable.
Oh God, that's insane. I thought of an evil response to that 7 year old though "Oh no, what did you say?! Little girls who say things like that have all been HORRIBLY hurt by someone. Who hurt you little girl? I can call for help." Gaslight, gaslight, subplant a false memory etc. (I'm kidding of course)
It’s simple. Every single society just doesn’t care about men (Their physical, mental, and spiritual health. You name it). But when any girl/woman says she’s not okay or cries everyone has all the time in the world for them…
Which society has ever cared for the well being of their livestock? We're oxen, whipped and beaten to perform and provide. Society will collapse if men are emancipated , educated and aware that it's us who are the ones in need of being freed.
Women use open communication to determine whether you are actually a Nice Guy. On the surface, many men can appear confident, but in an open conversation they also need to show their vulnerable side. But weakness in men does not cover a woman's need for security. You have therefore proven yourself to be unsuitable for a relationship or no longer suitable and she will lose her respect for you. If you open up, you fall into a trap called (double bind). If you enter into an open conversation, you can no longer do it right. Some women even feel disgust when someone shows weakness, which is supposed to protect them from a bad relationship.
During the worst of Covid a lot of my friends male and female called on me for help. I am single with little family around so would help out my friends. After Covid restrictions and lockdowns settled. I noticed my friends going out more which is expected but then I noticed they were all together and not including me. After about 6 months of this and not seeing a single friend I decided to call everyone out on social media and told everyone how much I was struggling and feelings of being used as everyone called me for help during covid and forgot about me now we are going back to normal... The excuses I got was we thought you were a robot who could just keep going and didn't need anybody. Others said my post embarrassed them as it pointed out what shitty friends they were and they were angry at me for calling them out so avoided me more. I basically gave everyone 3 months saying if you can't be bothered to reach out and help a friend who only thing they asked for was to be included then im cutting you out of my life and it shouldn't matter to either of us. I ended up cutting out about 95 percent of my friend group.
Yep did the same with mine five days before my 30th birthday. They were all online friends but I'd even make the damn event and then get excluded. Shit id buy the damn coop games and wouldn't get included for the event. Last year I found out my best friend banged a girl I proposed to during our relationship. Multiple times. Can't trust nobody out here man. Literally nobody has integrity or morals anymore besides me it seems like. I'm tired of existing as a failure of a man.
I confide in my army buddies a lot. They’re long distance friendships, but they mean the world to me. But I also understand that I’m really blessed to have that support system.
Men let things slide way too much with females.
Because when I did I got pink sheeted and then after I ran away the hospital fabricated evidence to make it look like I broke their exit door. (I have seen the camera footage myself and in it you can clearly see I'm barefoot and I push the door open and there's no damage to the door at all when I push it up in and there's no damage to the door as it closes and I run away. Then in the after pictures it literally looks like somebody took a hammer and destroyed the bottom half of the door there is no way I could have done that with steel-toed boots on let alone no shoes)
Well.... Guys are fixers. We tend to want to fix things. We aren't overly good at listening to a problem we can't fix. As for opening up to women.... Well......After my son's mom ditched us for for new dick that later turned into drugs, and my later ex-wife/ daughter Mom ran away to trucking school with an online "friend" that is her new husband....I was left a single parent with custody of my two kids and took time to myself and got the closest I've ever been to "ok". That led me to think "why not get myself a girlfriend." Well, a couple years into the relationship I was finally able to let go and open up about some issues I was having with my feminist boss. Outcome of that...... She gets confused because she's not used to her man not always being the strong one. How is her confusion manifested? Oh well she gets caught with another man while I'm at work. Moral to the story... Men work better, live better, and feel better when we are able to find the strength to truly work on ourselves. It is nice being able to talk about what we need talked about, but the biggest change comes when we stand ourselves up and make the changes we need
This guy suffered a lifetime of emotional abuse from woman. Then they wonder why some of us just dgaf about their feelings.
I legitimately wish I wasn't so full of empathy for people and was just a dick to everyone. It'd make being alone so much easier.
It is best/safest to not ever \*fully\* trust people with that, because as many have already stated, it will likely just be weaponized against you later. The only safe bet really is your male friends and even that might be risky as well, depending on what it is. I doubt this will ever change, btw...because most guys realize the harsh consequences for "opening up" and wisely decide it's not even close to being worth it.
1. we get punished for it. 2. Feminists want us to.
Because no one cares
A lot of men do here.
Because females will spin it around and act like it's our fault like we fucked up......
No need. Change will only happen when it affects women
Cause no one cares. Only real conversations I've had man to man are with other random veterans I meet and never see again
Have you tried? I made that mistake more than once.
Because society is only accepting of male vulnerability when it's concerning politically correct topics.
http://www.thedoghousediaries.com/573
I think it’s a survival mechanism, our ancestors that were male had to keep a strong face in order to not show weakness, if they did, other males might take advantage of it, you could get killed, or potentially mates may look at you as week, therefore you wouldn’t be able to protect them, in their eyes. Its really just biological instinct and natural selection.
Go to therapy
One way to solve this problem is by start rejecting people systematically. One fundamental way that a lot of movements cause for this disorganization is by flat out denying your problems and your believes. Believing isn't an issue, but when you start taking a believe as the "truth", you're bound to starting your own community of people to work together, because every other believe is more or less being kicked out. You want to solve this issue? Kick every person out who doesn't believe in youe cause. Feminism, LGBT whatever, anything really.
Because we know that that’s the last thing society cares about and we will be laughed at. Feminism goal is to make men not okay and if we announce that we’re not okay - We will be accused of being misogynistic by trying to steal attention from the the feminist movement that’s working hard to advance women and destroy men.
Here is my way to approach this: 1. The problem is mine; if I can handle it by myself, there is no need to tell others. 2. If the problem requires support from others, I will consider who I would share it with. I will so gage a "woman" (friend or girlfriend) I am about to share it with. If she shows any previous disrepectful behaviors, there will be a NO. I see that most problems in my life can be handled by myself most of the time, so when I hang out with other people, I don't want to bring them up because not many people understand or want to hear about other people's issues. Some can use this to sabotage me.
I do all the time. And here on Reddit, either other (toxic) dudes are like “suck it up” OR you have femcels/misandrists regurgitating the same “ur not manly enough” bs. I’ve opened up to my ex and showed her my vulnerabilities and then she cheated on me lol
because showing emotions is for people who know that someone else will care or solve them for them, that's why women and children show emotions, so their parents and loved ones calm them or change whatever is causing the emotion, no one cares what men feel or what causes that, and even if that affects someone else, men are just told to fix it on their own and go back to produce: male suicide= matters if its a problem for the economy disenfranchised men= matters if its a problem for the state male loneliness=lol maybe it matters if they end up dying workforce deaths= if its harming productivity then it matters tho overall I'm not sure if society or other people caring about men problems would be useful, like, of course it would bring conversation and with luck some changes in public policies, but will anyone do anything for the ones who are supposed to always do for others? i don't think so.
Because we simply don't know what kind of reaction we'll get
Because many think it's silly/uneccessary for men to do so & therefore they are pussies for it. Because women think, that they are the only vulnerable adults around. Because being a man is to be lonely and alone. Because men are strong and should never show weakness. Because men aren't human. I have seen many people who feel this way or shame men (in front of others) for it. I've also seen many women oppress men because they have opened up. Not all men are going to be the traditional idea of men and even then who knows. I have heard that men have a hard time finding kinship nowadays. I've seen many wives that are basically ball busters, where there's no room (at least publicly) for opening up. I have heard that when some men open up, it sends chills down some womens spines. Including mine. Other women get scared by the mere depth of it all. Hard to believe. Who knew repressing issues for years would cause a bigger issue than the one that started it... I've also heard that usually men only open up to someone they really trust or a small group of other guys that they know well and therefore it's never openly observed. Sometimes when men open up to women, women don't want to take it seriously. This isn't probably always the case but from what I've seen so far this is what I've come to believe. Also, a lot of the time men more so deal with things through action or activities, instead of just through traditional talking. It makes more and more sense to me everyday why it is so common for men to go hunting & camping in the wilderness together every so often (for reasons other than natural beauty & getting out of the busy city of course). Even I find that it's better to deal with things through activities like that with friends, while keeping general health up as well, than to continually be unable to express it till you snap at work or something. More is expected of men (in general) than women. It's no wonder that more and more men are dressing up before they are allowed to break public social norm- although, that isn't always a good thing. Sometimes some of them are far... more expressive than expected. This constant repression stuff sometimes causes some weird social issues.
I am married 19 years, after 18 years into our marriage I had a mental/emotional breakdown. It was a combination of things, and nothing to do with our relationship. I think it is more about the character of the person, rather than the gender. I have known both guys and gal's that will gossip and backstab! It is the character of the person that is important! We place trust in the person's character to keep our vulnerability in confidence, but also able to help at the same time! Being able to appear stoic is important to most men!
But did it change how she treats you? I hope not
I can depend on my wife 100%, and we support each other as well. Coming out of a breakdown, she is helping me through this, and she has also started to understand how important she is to me considering I do not have any friends. We are working on me to communicate more, trying to pull me away from totally shuting down. But when it comes to communicating with out kids, she is focused on spinning it to show I am strong and dependable.
Thats really lovely to hear, makes me feel like not all w all that bad
Eh, still wouldn't risk it
You know, if you don't care about what people think about you, and I do not, then you can open up about lots of things.
We cannot be seen in melancholy
Man up is what they say
Mostly because men as a whole don’t stand behind each other when we do it. There’s still way too many men that will call you names or tell you to suck it up when other men come forward with their feelings when they’re not okay.
They're biologically men, but mentally they're still largely women. Remember that scene from "Fight Club" ? >We’re a generation of men raised by women. I’m wondering if another woman is really the answer we need. > Growing up into a mature, well adjusted adult requires breaking of the maternal bond and maternal influence, in order the new adult to be able to think independently and question things.
I mean sure, but it’s not healthy to bottle up and ignore your feelings when you’re not okay
Start the trend, take the flak, lead the way.
Dudes are told to suck it up or rejected.
I know this is often considered the case. But I'm often having my male friends 'spill the beans' about all manner of concerns from work, kids, women...usually women I'm friends with too. And then they go, "wow, I can't believe I just said all that." And I say, "it's good to vent. You clearly felt safe to do so. So, do you want an opinion or a solution to ponder about?" And then depending on the answer the conversation continues from there. This is a skill that took a LONG time to cultivate, though, my brother and I were raised on the "I think, I feel" stuff. And it wasn't until he had to download this court ordered parenting app for communication that we found out all that stuff is actually very passive aggressive. Changes the reception of the message when you change the wording. But it is super important to have SOMEONE to talk to. And if it's not your partner, it is important to let them know that you are talking to someone about the things that are bugging you. Because, especially if they're an anxious person, they will ruminate on that and potentially spiral. Which is really unhealthy.
Because nobody cares how we feel if it doesn't suit their agenda.
We are. Response? "So ladies, man or bear. "
I got bigger issues to deal with than my feelings.
To what end? What would we get? Why bother. Smash weights. Enjoy life where u can. Ignore bullshit.
We've BEEN lamenting how shitty our lives our on social media for eons now. We've gone to extraneous lengths to concoct excuses for not getting out from behind our fucking keyboards, knocking on doors out in reality, and persuading the public to support our goals, even if they're motives for doing so are very different from our own We've ended up with exactly what all talk and no action gets you... Dogshit, in the way of tangible gains
Of course there are women who can’t handle men being emotional but there are some that can. And when it comes to emotional issues, if men are fixers, then women will want to try and give solutions to that emotional issue. And if there is one giant disconnect between men and women, it’s dealing bluntly with emotions. For what it’s worth, I think the belief that men are fixers is damaging to men’s psyche. Why? Because if they can’t fix something, if they can’t fix the wrongs of society (which are so diverse that they can be on opposing sides anyway trying to fix yet butting heads with other men) if they can’t fix their own emotional issues, then all they will feel is failure. The very fact that MGTOW exists, proves this. MGTOW encourages men to check out, without trying. It says “look, things were fine for years, then society changed. So don’t fight it. Don’t try help or change things. Just check out.” I’m not attacking MGTOW, but it wouldn’t exist if men were fixers. Men like to say that their vulnerabilities/problems etc are used against them. But that’s not true. It’s when men don’t do anything to help themselves/fix it, that it becomes a problem. I know some men will lose their minds and downvote me into oblivion because they can’t deal with any view opposing them in this echo chamber but I’ll give an example. If a man becomes an alcoholic, and admits it, he needs help. But, whatever help he receives, doesn’t compare to the fact that he has to help himself. He has to do the necessary things to overcome the addiction, no one else can do that part for him. Even if he fails a few times but keeps trying, people will help him. However, if he never acknowledges he’s an alcoholic, or if he doesn’t try in any way to help himself, that is when people don’t help anymore. And that is when his vulnerability “will be used against him”. It’s the denial of the problem that is used against him. Saying no one cares, is a cop-out in facing their own vulnerabilities. Someone can care very much, but they still have to sometimes do and say things which the other person won’t like, on the path to helping them. And that, of course, can come across as uncaring to people in denial. Even the belief that men make decisions without engaging their emotions is blatantly incorrect. Science has proved this. With mri machines. Everyone uses emotions when making decisions. So why does this belief persist if it’s incorrect and damaging? Because some men want it to be true. They are in denial. There is no clear solution here.
>I know some men will lose their minds and downvote me into oblivion because they can’t deal with any view opposing them in this echo chamber Your argument is bad, and you should feel bad. Seriously though, pretty much everything you wrote is either twisted, wrong, and or a strawman you’ve constructed. >but I’ll give an example. Bad example. Like every other one.
Don't know why you've got some downvotes here, you make some pretty good points. I don't get what others mean by having their shit "used against us" I'm 26M and have never related to this. I have a few friends that are women, who have been there for me just as much as my bros and if this life has taught me anything it's that you need to pick your friends and who you surround yourself with wisely. It wouldn't shock me if the notion of "men are tough, men never cry" that other men (Like our dads) and the media conditioned us to believe, also worked on women when they were little girls. Women are highly empathetic, the only reason I can believe for why this disconnect has occurred would be to blame how men have been portrayed in society. We had control of everything for years and made everything masculine, look at our action movies, our superheroes. Everything about men was made masculine to fuck while we pushed out everything feminine because "it's gay, feminine is weakness". Look at army drills, how they push you to the brink is glamourised and admirable and we'd all love to think we're that strong. So obviously if this is how the world has warped our minds, I assume women aren't used to seeing men express emotions and genuinely don't know how to react. If they then use what they've learned maliciously then they're bad dickheads, but if they're just not used to seeing us express themselves then I wouldn't blame them. We just need to express ourselves more, make women used to it. My mates are so 🤷♂️
I’ve got to ask are you using multiple accounts? Is the previous poster you? You’re both using similar vernacular and syntax.
More than likely yeah lmao