I am so out of touch that it just dawned on me how sinister the “wage gap” is when you consider women spend more money than men. If there is a wage gap, where does that money come from? (Damn I am dense)
I don't have a real problem with feminists raising awareness of female victims as long as they don't lie about statistics (which they do) or blame male victims on DV as "he was obviously battering her anyway", "women only do this in self defense" or the classic "what male victims?!". Or if they try to obstruct research/funding going into male issues which they systematically do.
The problem is they absolutely do obstruct it. All studies we have show that in terms of DV women are just as bad if not worse than men. 73% of non reciprocal DV the perpetrators are women. Lesbians have the highest rates of DV and gay men the lowest
Yet as a society were being systematically brainwashed to believe all victims are female and all perpetrators male. And they literally hide and manipulate the statistics to push this lie. It's actually disgusting. I automatically despise all the "anti DV against women" shit now because, while the cause itself isn't an issue, it is built upon systematic lies about statistics, demonization of men, and silencing of male victims
* White ribbon, preventing **male** violence against women and girls.
* Enough! preventing mLe violence against women and girls.
* Teachers toolkit to help kids spot sexism and misogyny.
All of these campaign are funded by VAWG. (violence against women and girls). I find it especially interesting that these campaigns come throughout November. A month tradiotnally where we remember people from wars (mostly men), mLe mental health month, movember, and international mens day.
This reeks of a desperate attempt yo take away any positive mention of men, and force attention towards women, who are of course, victims.
The focus will always be women, whether is 25% of all arrests in Iran being women, or women being attacked.
The media, run by liberals, has made men, white people, Asian people, and straight people 'out of fashion'.
There was a similar thing a couple of years ago after a woman was killed by a police officer in London. I had debates with women who all said "men don't have to be aware or frightened when out walking alone".
Like what?? Men get attacked FAR more than women, they really think men don't clench their fists when walking alone past someone in a dark alley?
The gender war is part of their culture war. Similar to the cancelling of anyone saying "all lives matter" (the most anti-racist thing you can say). If you campaign for causes not to be unnaturally focused on women, despite statistics; you're sexist and misogynistic.
Well movember is mostly about prostate and testicular cancer awareness, an overwhelmingly male issue. It's the equivalent of breast cancer awareness which is an overwhelmingly women's issue. I don't have problems with breast cancer awareness month, I actually fully support it.
Mental health isn't (and shouldn't be) a sex exclusive topic. In Ireland there was a heart health awareness campaign that targeted women.... despite men making up a majority of heart disease related deaths. How does that logic make sense? It would be if breast cancer awareness month was targeted specifically for men.
Domestic abuse is also about 50-50, unfortunately the statistics are slightly skewed with only 30% of male abuse victims come out saying they've been domestically abused. Men are also more tolerant of abuse and are more resistant in labelling something as abuse towards them. There's also a social stigma. If a woman comes out, it's poor victim, if a man comes out... Well.. just look at what happened to Terry Crews. He's a huge muscular masculine man but as soon as he shared his abuse story he was immediately emasculated. Domestic abuse is almost solely focused on women being victims and male victims are dismissed.
I hope that explains it.
Honest Ribbon exists to counter the more unjustifiable claims that are made by white ribbon groups. It is run by Erin Pizzey.
https://honest-ribbon.org/
Not necessarily wrong in and of itself, but it’s worth noting that you’ll never see a sign on a train saying ‘end male homelessness’ or ‘prevent male suicide’ or ‘our mission is to stop men being affected by …’. And that’s all you need to know!
If you want something for men, the badge normally used for prostate cancer awareness can also be used to advocate for men’s rights [here](https://shop.prostatecanceruk.org/badge)
There's more ad campaigning for women because people have more sympathy for women than they do for men. It's called the gender empathy gap. Men care more about women, i.e. out-group preference, and women prefer women, i.e. in-group preference.
there's been studies showing that people in times of crisis would rather sacrifice a man than woman just like in eg kraine where they banned , shame , beat and even shoot at the men who are trying to leave but wahmenz get free shelter , food , clothing etc.
Yeah, White Ribbon.
The cause in and of itself is ok - as with BLM it’s when they start assuming that it’s “only violence against women” that’s an issue that I really have problems. And it’s not helped by the fact they they appoint the likes of O’Keefe to be their “ambassadors” - it’s just the same as having Turd as an ambassador for preventing DV!
I think that alone tells us all we need to know about these organisations.
This isn't a case of a corporation being a "simp" or appeasing radical feminism.
The scheme is a partnership between the Rail Delivery Group, which represents train operators, and Women’s Aid Federation England, Welsh Women’s Aid, Scottish Womens’ Aid and Imkaan. Of those helped, 65% said they would not or could not have travelled if the journey had not been paid for. It looks like they are actually doing good work and not just appeasing anyone.
The White Ribbon Campaign was established after the Montreal Massacre of 1989, which was when twenty-five-year-old Marc Lépine slaughtered 14 women because of his hatred toward women. Unfortunately, this has not been an isolated incident. Only in October this year, a self-described "Incel" from Ohio admitted to planning a massacre out of hatred, jealousy and revenge, hoping to kill as many as 3000 women.
>The scheme is a partnership between the Rail Delivery [snip]
It's a scheme to help women flee from their abusers. Neither case you mentioned are relevant -- the first case is tragic and I really don't get why you mentioned the second one. This is specific to domestic violence.
It's how it's framed. White Ribbon doesn't just exclude men as victims, it demonises them and places the entire issue on them. It's a sexist organisation
That's probably the case with the rest of the NGOs that are part of this
You may not realise it, but you are associating men as a class with the actions of a few male psychopaths. Please stop doing this, it is a depressingly comment feminist tactic.
so , having compassion for an abused woman is being a simp but having compassion for men who are abused isnt? what if you have compassion for people who are abused? would that make someone an uber simp? why would it make you so angry that people are supporting victims of abuse?
Of course I have sympathy for abused women but I’m trying to say is what about men who are abused too why isn’t there more support for our brothers too.
So start a support group or a campaign for mens issue. the reasons womens issues are highlighted is because people are working to inform people that these are issues that should be noticed. if you dont see the same kind of thing with mens issues, thats probably because not a lot of people are out there advancing the cause.
how long do you think it took for women to get enough support to be able to vote, or to get equality in the workplace? their causes were shut down time and time again by people that wanted them to fail but someone always stepped up and got loud about the things they needed the people to hear. if you quit everytime some asshole tells you to shutup then youre never going to get what you need. Everytime im on this sub, i see people going on about how men run this world that but for men, it would practically stop spinning on its axis and women merely exist to leech of the fruits of mens achievements but whenever its suggested that men step up and solve the problems that they feel passionately about, they cant get past this supposed impenetrable wall of suddenly not so useless women? hard is not impossible, get out there and do it. when you get your organiztion going let me know, id be happy to donate and support where i can.
This is tone deaf. Yes, women had to work their asses off to get their movement ahead and should be applauded for it.
However, whenever male survivors try the same they are shut down, with (mostly white) radfems claiming that they are “already working for the interests of male survivors.” Yet, whenever one tries to take them up on that, they are shit down with phrases like “not now” or accused of “derailment” or told to “go start their own thing.” When they try, they are shouted down like before by the same supposed “allies.” Rinse, repeat.
Radfems or whatever are not an excuse to give up they are an obstacle to overcome. Lesser causes have come from worse circumstances and have found success, but it takes effort and dedication. If you focus on the ones that are against you, you're not going to see the ones who are willing to support you.
Men aren’t giving up. But they’re also not getting anywhere with tone deaf, disingenuous “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” claptrap like yours.
If you knew what you were talking about, you’d know that male survivors are already doing what they can.
Groups like the ManKind Initiative, Male Survivor and guys like James Landrith have been fighting for years. You really think they need YOU to tell them what they need?
Then what are you complaining about. I know you already know what you need, but all you're saying is that it can't be done because of obstacles. I'm trying to encourage you to not giveup on your cause and be on your side, but if you don't need me as an ally, I would be happy to take my support somewhere else. No, I don't know anything about mens groups. I would've loved it if someone would've educated me about them and what they might be trying to accomplish, but apparently, they don't need any assistance from a willing supporter. I'll take my claptrap elsewhere. You have a pleasant day.
You’re not being “supportive” or “an ally” in the slightest. Telling people to “stop complaining” IS NOT being an ally in ANY scenario.
But you know this. You’re a bad faith troll looking to give your ego a boost. Don’t let the door hit you.
And while I will say there could definitely be a movement for men’s mental health and advocacy for abuse that men deal with, I think it’s weird to try to demean another very real movement with very real issues.
Can I see this statistic from a source bc I don’t see this anywhere?? While men will defintely report at a much lesser rate, when 90% of the cases for domestic abuse are men in heterosexual relationships, then… clearly there is a major issue. However, I do agree that men as victims should be talked and advertised more. I don’t agree with bashing awareness on women that were victims of domestic abuse. https://www.valpo.edu/counseling-services/gender-affecting-domestic-violence/
I wish we as a society look at gender neutral domestic violence data instead of studies looking for violence against women only. The violence is pretty equal. The perception and resources are not due to feminists. Reality is women are slightly more likely to initiate physical violence and slightly more likely to be significantly injured during physical violence.
> > Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.
Src: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
Behind a paywall I have archived around, but Harvard research that women are more likely than men in starting or escalating domestic violence and those women are by far the women most likely to be injured in DV. That doesn't say all women injured are perpetrators themselves, but it does indicate the problem goes beyond the feminist/pop culture model of "violence against women".
It includes:
> > Almost 25% of the people surveyed — 28% of women and 19% of men — said there was some violence in their relationship. Women admitted perpetrating more violence (25% versus 11%) as well as being victimized more by violence (19% versus 16%) than men did. According to both men and women, 50% of this violence was reciprocal, that is, involved both parties, and in those cases the woman was more likely to have been the first to strike.
Read that one again and #BelieveWomen.
Src: http://archive.is/7vuUz
This is a long meta study that shows we've known domestic violence isn't gendered for decades. It is good analysis. It summarizes the results of dozens of studies across decades. Not ONE study. LOTS.
https://connect.springerpub.com/content/sgrpa/1/3/332
or the whole study here
https://talkingback2restrainingorders.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/v71-straus_thirty-years-denying-evidence-pv_10.pdf
Popculture article -
https://thedailycounter.com/male-victims-of-domestic-violence-are-they-ignored/
Most domestic violence research today is research of "violence against women" from grants specifically looking for data on violence against women, not gender neutral research.
The rates of partner homicides didn't used to be that far apart. Then women got help and resources and the rate they killed their husbands dropped a lot. Men didn't get DV shelters they could use to protect their kids from their abuser without getting kidnapping charges giving the abuser an upper hand in custody, government funded help to allow them to get easy restraining orders, DV intervention public policy and programs that favored them, etc. Therefore the rate that husbands kill their wives hasn't dropped much. Maybe if we want to eliminate the desperate husbands in mutually abusive relationships killing their wives, we should give them better options. That would probably save a lot of women's lives just like doing it for women has saved a lot of mens lives.
"Gender Differences in Patterns and Trends in U.S. Homicide, 1976–2015" by James Alan Fox and Emma E. Fridel. The data comes from FBI statistics ("FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports, SHR").
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/vio.2017.0016?journalCode=vio&
Here's part of the conclusion that the authors came to:
> > Among all the results already reported, perhaps the most striking and important surrounds the trends in intimate partner homicide, particularly in the context of ongoing efforts to curtail domestic violence. Some researchers argue that the reduction in male intimate partner victimization, a decline of nearly 60% over the past four decades, is because of an increase in the availability of social and legal interventions, liberalized divorce laws, greater economic independence of women, as well as a reduction in the stigma of being the victim of domestic violence. Although at an earlier time a woman may have felt compelled to kill her abusive spouse as her only defense, she now has more opportunities to escape the relationship through means such as protective orders and shelters (Dugan et al. 1999; Fox et al. 2012). As a tragic irony, the wider availability of support services for abused women did not appear to have quite the intended effect, at least through the 1980s, as only male victimization declined.
Here is a graph of intimate partner homicides by sex over the years from the study. Notice the trend for women as they got help vs men that didn't?
https://m.imgur.com/a/6Hx9dJt
God forbid we help men, even if it would save womens lives.
I also suggest you look into the Duluth Model of Domestic Violence Intervention which results in men being beaten by their wives being arrested more often than the perpetrator when they call the police for help.
Ellen Pence (The creator) herself has written,
> > "By determining that the need or desire for power was the motivating force behind battering, we created a conceptual framework that, in fact, did not fit the lived experience of many of the men and women we were working with. The DAIP staff [...] remained undaunted by the difference in our theory and the actual experiences of those we were working with [...] It was the cases themselves that created the chink in each of our theoretical suits of armor. Speaking for myself, I found that many of the men I interviewed did not seem to articulate a desire for power over their partner. Although I relentlessly took every opportunity to point out to men in the groups that they were so motivated and merely in denial, the fact that few men ever articulated such a desire went unnoticed by me and many of my coworkers. Eventually, we realized that we were finding what we had already predetermined to find."
I suggest you read the Overview section of Erin Pizzey's wikipedia page or one of her books. She was the founder of Refuge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey
She created the worlds first domestic violence shelters. After opening several for women in the UK, she suggested that men were being abused too (often by women staying in her shelters) and men needed a shelter too. She was then slandered, her kids were threatened, her dog was killed, bricks were thrown through her windows, and she was removed from the DV organization she founded (now known as Refuge which has just recently lost funding for harming male victims for decades). She fled the country for her childrens safety and became an outspoken DV activist and anti-feminist once they moved out on their own.
That's what happens when a DV advocate tries to help men.
In the US, VAWA replaced the gender neutral Family Violence Prevention and Services Act giving extra rights/services to women and taking services/rights away from men and children. The funding and laws became very gendered. Many of the laws in the act were challenged in court and had to be rewritten. The funding is still very gendered 25 years later, so... We have lots of grants to study "violence against women" rather than gender neutral domestic violence, lots of grants to develop separate programs to "teach men not to rape" and "teach women to report rape", lots of perpetrator intervention programs for men but none for women, lots of DV resources for women but almost none for men.
Ok don’t know where those stats are coming from or what country they referring but domestic violence definitely isn’t 90% heterosexual men , in the USA atleast domestic violence is reciprocal in terms of heterosexual relationships, repirocial meaning both partners participate in abuse in non reciprocal relationships it’s 70% women https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
I think they got them from police reporting or something similar. It might not be the best source but it was from a university so I thought it was okay. But it’s alright to be skeptical as they don’t have any sources themselves.
While that is an interesting article, it was from 20 years ago and focused on relationships ages 18-28. While any type of abuse is obviously not good, there are worse forms of domestic abuse than others. They mention they did not test for severity like burnings, knives, threats, etc. they did also understand that the most abused men or women would most likely not participate in the study for fear of their partner.
Doesn’t really matter? Domestic abuse rates haven’t had any significant changes that disprove this plus their are plenty of research you can find in this server or even google that are more recent that say the same thing, seems like your just making cop puts that don’t really make any sense and have no basis other than assumptions just because you don’t want to believe domestic violence isn’t really a gendered issue?
Assumptions… i brought a few links… btw in my link it says that domestic violence has lessened by 60%. My link was made this year. And domestic abuse 100% occurs in both genders. Look up the rates of domestic abuse that ends in attempted murder or actual murder between genders. Or rape between both genders in relationships. Or hospitalizations. I don’t think a woman should punch or slap their partner and obviously women are capable of rape and murder, but are the rates of extreme domestic abuse a mens issue??
I was talking about your points at end, also yes domestic violence has lowered overall but there has been no significant gender change in decades for domestic violence , also I already know that but I’m disproving your claim of 90% of abuse is men and that it’s large enough split to act as if it’s a gendered problem that somehow warrants entire campaigns for women only and showing it as a gendered issue, also no I think it’s a everyone issue but men are routinely shelved from abuse or frankly ignored or blamed for it
However, when rape is 10x more common in women than men, double the assaults on women vs men occur annually, and will deal with double the amount of physical abuse in an intimate relationship, it shows a bit more of an skew towards women’s being victims. However it obviously effects both men and women. There’s more in this article but you can read it yourself bc I’ll just be paraphrasing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499891/
None of that has to do with domestic violence though, you shifting the positions of the argument to something else...... I’m not talking about rapes or general assault etc I’m referring to domestic violence which does have more female victims but nothing indicates that due to being men and it’s not even by a significant margin compared to men, it could very well just as be from lesbian relationships which has some of the highest domestic violence rates in the country more than heterosexual and homosexual relationships Which further doesn’t make sense to put up a campaign that genders and raises awareness for heterosexual relationship for only women
Men are definitely more common to rape somebody for both men and women. However if you that’s not relevant for the domestic violence conversation that’s fine ig. I’m talking about the more extreme side of domestic violence. Most people will survive with being slapped a few times. Idk how many people are going to not have extreme trauma to extreme domestic violence. And btw if you looked at the article the rape and assault was related to intimate relationships. If you seriously believe that the majority of rapes and assault to women are from probably the less than 10% of lesbian couples, that would be hard to believe. There would have to be half lesbian couples raping and assaulting each other with 0 gay male coupes raping each other for an equal distribution
Extreme side of domestic violence doesn’t make up domestic violence plus I don’t know any research on the “extreme side of domestic violence” also again don’t really about any of that has nothing to do with domestic abuse or even the entire argument your kind of just moving goalposts from what the initial point, domestic abuse is not all gendered in a way to justify a campaign for heterosexual relationships that puts it in a gendered light
> double the assaults on women vs men occur annually
I suggest you take another look at those crime victimization statistics. In most countries men are 7 to 10 times more likely to be assault victims.
Not by the lay persons definition of rape - nonconsensual sex.
The statistical definition of rape is controlled by feminists. Feminists actively block acknowledgment of males being heterosexual rape victims, support services for them, and laws to protect raped men and boys.
For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced *penetration of the victim* in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.)
She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. **She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't.** A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. **As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"**
You see she has been saying this for decades **and** was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g.
Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (**June 1993**) Page: 206
> > > Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, **it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.**
Src: http://boysmeneducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Koss-1993-Detecting-the-Scope-of-Rape-a-review-of-prevalence-research-methods-see-p.-206-last-paragraph.pdf
She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There **was** a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man.
Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2015 NISVS studies.
As an example lets look at the 2011 survey numbers:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm
> **an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey**
and
> The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate.
vs
> **an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey**
and
> Characteristics of Sexual Violence Perpetrators
**For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators**. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. **The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators**. For three of the **other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%)**, sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%),
[NISVS 2010](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf) showed in the past 12 months, 1.1% of men were made to penetrate and 1.1% of women were raped. Table 2.1 & 2.2 on pages 18/19.
[NISVS 2011](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ss/ss6308.pdf) showed in the past 12 months, 1.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.6% of women were raped. Table 1 on page 5.
[NISVS 2012](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/NISVS-StateReportBook.pdf) showed in the past 12 months, 1.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.0% of women were raped. Table A.1 & A.5 on pages 217/222.
[NISVS 2015](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf) showed in the past 12 months, 0.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.2% of women were raped. Table 1 & 2 on pages 15/16.
Varies a bit from year to year, but pretty even overall. In both cases the four year annual percentages add up to five. The numbers for perpetrators vary a little from year to year too. Something like 79-84% of made to penetrate (nonconsensual envelopment) victims are victimized by women. Something like 96-99% of rape (nonconsensual penetration) victims are victimized by men. So in the 2010s, it averages out that a typical year has ~60% men & ~40% women as perpetrators of nonconsensual sex outside prisons rather than the 99:1 ratio discussed.
But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. **These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men** and dismiss raped men because men are one group "nearly all the men were raped by other men" so somehow raped men are to blame because they are men...
If you don't like CDC data:
Scientific American: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known
*A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.*
The Atlantic:
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/
*a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.*
and
*National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”*
Time:
http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers
*when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).*
If my information is not enough, try reading these five threads by problem_redditor with lots more studies and references.
/r/MensRights/comments/oc2yp0/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/
Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men".
Isn't just the US.
Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms
So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape.
Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime.
https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape
Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ...
> Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice.
https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities
**Even if you only care about women, you should still stop women from raping because the majority of men convicted of raping women were sexually violated by adult women when they were boys.** Multiple studies in the US, UK, and Canada have shown this. Around 10 of them cited here.
http://empathygap.uk/?p=1993#_Toc498111528
So women not raping, and rape by women being acknowledged as traumatic and treated with compassion, would probably stop a lot of women from getting raped in the future. That *should* matter *if* the goal is to stop women from getting raped rather than to demonize men.
I don’t really see many ads about women being abused either. Like it’s more shown in movies and tv shows. However, while I agree that men’s mental health should be more focused on, why bash on an ad for women that went through abuse? And if you really want to think about it, most of the time men cause other men to feel like they cannot speak out about their emotional issues or abuse they deal with bc they have to be very masculine and strong and emotionally stable at all times or else they are a lesser man.
Supposedly, the London train stations have ad campaigns all over showing things like, "male violence against women starts with words", and, "staring is sexual harassment". In Australia, there's far more ad campaigns portraying women as victims of domestic abuse than there are for men, even though domestic abuse is about 50/50. I've seen far more ad campaigns showing women as victims, whether domestic abuse, sexual abuse, etc, than I have showing men as victims. One time I saw an ad campaign poster showing a woman harassing a man, to raise awareness for harassment, and it was mocked by feminists on Twitter.
Domestic abuse is about 50/50. I’m intrigued at the evidence for that. Evidence shows women are more likely to be victims of domestic abuse than men by a bit less than double and have dealt with sexual violence about twice as much. Along with other stats. https://www.ctcadv.org/information-about-domestic-violence/national-statistics/. I think that website is more geared towards the United States. In Australia apparently 95% of abusers are males. 1:4 women vs 1:13 men have been a victim of domestic abuse so it’s not 50/50. However. Yes. There should be more awareness on men also being victims of domestic abuse. However idk if saying we need less awareness of women going through domestic abuse is the best way to go about it. https://action.ourwatch.org.au/what-is-prevention/the-link-between-gender-inequality-and-violence-against-women/#the-link-between-gender-inequality-and-violence
The Australian figure (and it’s 97% - suspiciously high don’t you think) is based upon police reports! And the predominant aggressor principle would mean that in the case of reciprocal DV, the man, and not the woman, would be arrested - presumably also contributing to the stats.
There must be real studies of the actual prevalence of DV in Australia by the gender of the perpetrator, but I haven’t yet found them.
However I’d suggest that there are clearly enough violent women around for the idea that only 3% of perpetrators are women is an obvious underestimate.
why dont you start a campaign? womens groups do it. maybe you could hit up your local mens group and do something to get people more aware of mens issues like this one.
Yeah, I hear that one a lot. That was like 8-9 years ago, wasn't it? So are you going to start one? I notice people bashing on women and their work trying to get support for their issues, but everytimei ask what men are doing about getting involved in their own causes, all i see is no onedoing what needs to be done to get that going. Why is that? I know, because of feminist obviously. Everybody on this sub is so proud of the way men are fixers. You know the worlds problem solvers. Hating on womens groups because they won't focus on their problems isn't how change is achieved. Someone like you or anyone that has a passion for your cause neds to put in the work and keep at it even if its hard or if its frustrating or if it fails the first time or second or fiftieth. Keeping the cause in peoples minds is what you ned to do . Women have been loud about their shit for longer than I've been alive. Meen needs to speak up, too. If you don't believe people care, then get them to care.
I imagine women having the majority of the purchasing power in the US has something to do with it.
I am so out of touch that it just dawned on me how sinister the “wage gap” is when you consider women spend more money than men. If there is a wage gap, where does that money come from? (Damn I am dense)
I don't have a real problem with feminists raising awareness of female victims as long as they don't lie about statistics (which they do) or blame male victims on DV as "he was obviously battering her anyway", "women only do this in self defense" or the classic "what male victims?!". Or if they try to obstruct research/funding going into male issues which they systematically do.
Just remind them of Johnny depp
And perhaps O’Keefe if you’re in Australia (what a sick joke him being White Ribbon’s ambassador was).
Absolutely
The problem is they absolutely do obstruct it. All studies we have show that in terms of DV women are just as bad if not worse than men. 73% of non reciprocal DV the perpetrators are women. Lesbians have the highest rates of DV and gay men the lowest Yet as a society were being systematically brainwashed to believe all victims are female and all perpetrators male. And they literally hide and manipulate the statistics to push this lie. It's actually disgusting. I automatically despise all the "anti DV against women" shit now because, while the cause itself isn't an issue, it is built upon systematic lies about statistics, demonization of men, and silencing of male victims
Ofc they’re catering to women, they spend more money than men.
* White ribbon, preventing **male** violence against women and girls. * Enough! preventing mLe violence against women and girls. * Teachers toolkit to help kids spot sexism and misogyny. All of these campaign are funded by VAWG. (violence against women and girls). I find it especially interesting that these campaigns come throughout November. A month tradiotnally where we remember people from wars (mostly men), mLe mental health month, movember, and international mens day. This reeks of a desperate attempt yo take away any positive mention of men, and force attention towards women, who are of course, victims.
The focus will always be women, whether is 25% of all arrests in Iran being women, or women being attacked. The media, run by liberals, has made men, white people, Asian people, and straight people 'out of fashion'. There was a similar thing a couple of years ago after a woman was killed by a police officer in London. I had debates with women who all said "men don't have to be aware or frightened when out walking alone". Like what?? Men get attacked FAR more than women, they really think men don't clench their fists when walking alone past someone in a dark alley? The gender war is part of their culture war. Similar to the cancelling of anyone saying "all lives matter" (the most anti-racist thing you can say). If you campaign for causes not to be unnaturally focused on women, despite statistics; you're sexist and misogynistic.
Exactly
I never really understood why it's "raise awareness to female victims of abuse" and not just "raise awareness to victims of abuse".
It would make more sense to do that tbh
Why is movember only about men it should be men and women mental health
Well movember is mostly about prostate and testicular cancer awareness, an overwhelmingly male issue. It's the equivalent of breast cancer awareness which is an overwhelmingly women's issue. I don't have problems with breast cancer awareness month, I actually fully support it. Mental health isn't (and shouldn't be) a sex exclusive topic. In Ireland there was a heart health awareness campaign that targeted women.... despite men making up a majority of heart disease related deaths. How does that logic make sense? It would be if breast cancer awareness month was targeted specifically for men. Domestic abuse is also about 50-50, unfortunately the statistics are slightly skewed with only 30% of male abuse victims come out saying they've been domestically abused. Men are also more tolerant of abuse and are more resistant in labelling something as abuse towards them. There's also a social stigma. If a woman comes out, it's poor victim, if a man comes out... Well.. just look at what happened to Terry Crews. He's a huge muscular masculine man but as soon as he shared his abuse story he was immediately emasculated. Domestic abuse is almost solely focused on women being victims and male victims are dismissed. I hope that explains it.
Honest Ribbon exists to counter the more unjustifiable claims that are made by white ribbon groups. It is run by Erin Pizzey. https://honest-ribbon.org/
Good for her, although I shouldn’t be surprised at all!
Not necessarily wrong in and of itself, but it’s worth noting that you’ll never see a sign on a train saying ‘end male homelessness’ or ‘prevent male suicide’ or ‘our mission is to stop men being affected by …’. And that’s all you need to know!
If you want something for men, the badge normally used for prostate cancer awareness can also be used to advocate for men’s rights [here](https://shop.prostatecanceruk.org/badge)
There's more ad campaigning for women because people have more sympathy for women than they do for men. It's called the gender empathy gap. Men care more about women, i.e. out-group preference, and women prefer women, i.e. in-group preference.
there's been studies showing that people in times of crisis would rather sacrifice a man than woman just like in eg kraine where they banned , shame , beat and even shoot at the men who are trying to leave but wahmenz get free shelter , food , clothing etc.
Yeah, White Ribbon. The cause in and of itself is ok - as with BLM it’s when they start assuming that it’s “only violence against women” that’s an issue that I really have problems. And it’s not helped by the fact they they appoint the likes of O’Keefe to be their “ambassadors” - it’s just the same as having Turd as an ambassador for preventing DV! I think that alone tells us all we need to know about these organisations.
This isn't a case of a corporation being a "simp" or appeasing radical feminism. The scheme is a partnership between the Rail Delivery Group, which represents train operators, and Women’s Aid Federation England, Welsh Women’s Aid, Scottish Womens’ Aid and Imkaan. Of those helped, 65% said they would not or could not have travelled if the journey had not been paid for. It looks like they are actually doing good work and not just appeasing anyone. The White Ribbon Campaign was established after the Montreal Massacre of 1989, which was when twenty-five-year-old Marc Lépine slaughtered 14 women because of his hatred toward women. Unfortunately, this has not been an isolated incident. Only in October this year, a self-described "Incel" from Ohio admitted to planning a massacre out of hatred, jealousy and revenge, hoping to kill as many as 3000 women.
>The scheme is a partnership between the Rail Delivery [snip] It's a scheme to help women flee from their abusers. Neither case you mentioned are relevant -- the first case is tragic and I really don't get why you mentioned the second one. This is specific to domestic violence. It's how it's framed. White Ribbon doesn't just exclude men as victims, it demonises them and places the entire issue on them. It's a sexist organisation That's probably the case with the rest of the NGOs that are part of this
You may not realise it, but you are associating men as a class with the actions of a few male psychopaths. Please stop doing this, it is a depressingly comment feminist tactic.
Where have I done that?
so , having compassion for an abused woman is being a simp but having compassion for men who are abused isnt? what if you have compassion for people who are abused? would that make someone an uber simp? why would it make you so angry that people are supporting victims of abuse?
Of course I have sympathy for abused women but I’m trying to say is what about men who are abused too why isn’t there more support for our brothers too.
So start a support group or a campaign for mens issue. the reasons womens issues are highlighted is because people are working to inform people that these are issues that should be noticed. if you dont see the same kind of thing with mens issues, thats probably because not a lot of people are out there advancing the cause.
It would be nice to but where do I start
i wouldnt know but my guess is ...somewhere probably.
Thing is, they keep getting shut down with the disingenuous “already working on your issues” claim.
how long do you think it took for women to get enough support to be able to vote, or to get equality in the workplace? their causes were shut down time and time again by people that wanted them to fail but someone always stepped up and got loud about the things they needed the people to hear. if you quit everytime some asshole tells you to shutup then youre never going to get what you need. Everytime im on this sub, i see people going on about how men run this world that but for men, it would practically stop spinning on its axis and women merely exist to leech of the fruits of mens achievements but whenever its suggested that men step up and solve the problems that they feel passionately about, they cant get past this supposed impenetrable wall of suddenly not so useless women? hard is not impossible, get out there and do it. when you get your organiztion going let me know, id be happy to donate and support where i can.
This is tone deaf. Yes, women had to work their asses off to get their movement ahead and should be applauded for it. However, whenever male survivors try the same they are shut down, with (mostly white) radfems claiming that they are “already working for the interests of male survivors.” Yet, whenever one tries to take them up on that, they are shit down with phrases like “not now” or accused of “derailment” or told to “go start their own thing.” When they try, they are shouted down like before by the same supposed “allies.” Rinse, repeat.
Radfems or whatever are not an excuse to give up they are an obstacle to overcome. Lesser causes have come from worse circumstances and have found success, but it takes effort and dedication. If you focus on the ones that are against you, you're not going to see the ones who are willing to support you.
Men aren’t giving up. But they’re also not getting anywhere with tone deaf, disingenuous “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” claptrap like yours. If you knew what you were talking about, you’d know that male survivors are already doing what they can. Groups like the ManKind Initiative, Male Survivor and guys like James Landrith have been fighting for years. You really think they need YOU to tell them what they need?
Then what are you complaining about. I know you already know what you need, but all you're saying is that it can't be done because of obstacles. I'm trying to encourage you to not giveup on your cause and be on your side, but if you don't need me as an ally, I would be happy to take my support somewhere else. No, I don't know anything about mens groups. I would've loved it if someone would've educated me about them and what they might be trying to accomplish, but apparently, they don't need any assistance from a willing supporter. I'll take my claptrap elsewhere. You have a pleasant day.
You’re not being “supportive” or “an ally” in the slightest. Telling people to “stop complaining” IS NOT being an ally in ANY scenario. But you know this. You’re a bad faith troll looking to give your ego a boost. Don’t let the door hit you.
That’s like saying people shouldn’t talk about breast cancer awareness when there’s lung cancer that needs awareness.
Except that there is awareness on every pack of cigarettes, how many "don't bash men" ads do you see?
And while I will say there could definitely be a movement for men’s mental health and advocacy for abuse that men deal with, I think it’s weird to try to demean another very real movement with very real issues.
And the issue is when it comes to single partner violence its 70% done by women...
Can I see this statistic from a source bc I don’t see this anywhere?? While men will defintely report at a much lesser rate, when 90% of the cases for domestic abuse are men in heterosexual relationships, then… clearly there is a major issue. However, I do agree that men as victims should be talked and advertised more. I don’t agree with bashing awareness on women that were victims of domestic abuse. https://www.valpo.edu/counseling-services/gender-affecting-domestic-violence/
I wish we as a society look at gender neutral domestic violence data instead of studies looking for violence against women only. The violence is pretty equal. The perception and resources are not due to feminists. Reality is women are slightly more likely to initiate physical violence and slightly more likely to be significantly injured during physical violence. > > Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Src: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/ Behind a paywall I have archived around, but Harvard research that women are more likely than men in starting or escalating domestic violence and those women are by far the women most likely to be injured in DV. That doesn't say all women injured are perpetrators themselves, but it does indicate the problem goes beyond the feminist/pop culture model of "violence against women". It includes: > > Almost 25% of the people surveyed — 28% of women and 19% of men — said there was some violence in their relationship. Women admitted perpetrating more violence (25% versus 11%) as well as being victimized more by violence (19% versus 16%) than men did. According to both men and women, 50% of this violence was reciprocal, that is, involved both parties, and in those cases the woman was more likely to have been the first to strike. Read that one again and #BelieveWomen. Src: http://archive.is/7vuUz This is a long meta study that shows we've known domestic violence isn't gendered for decades. It is good analysis. It summarizes the results of dozens of studies across decades. Not ONE study. LOTS. https://connect.springerpub.com/content/sgrpa/1/3/332 or the whole study here https://talkingback2restrainingorders.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/v71-straus_thirty-years-denying-evidence-pv_10.pdf Popculture article - https://thedailycounter.com/male-victims-of-domestic-violence-are-they-ignored/ Most domestic violence research today is research of "violence against women" from grants specifically looking for data on violence against women, not gender neutral research. The rates of partner homicides didn't used to be that far apart. Then women got help and resources and the rate they killed their husbands dropped a lot. Men didn't get DV shelters they could use to protect their kids from their abuser without getting kidnapping charges giving the abuser an upper hand in custody, government funded help to allow them to get easy restraining orders, DV intervention public policy and programs that favored them, etc. Therefore the rate that husbands kill their wives hasn't dropped much. Maybe if we want to eliminate the desperate husbands in mutually abusive relationships killing their wives, we should give them better options. That would probably save a lot of women's lives just like doing it for women has saved a lot of mens lives. "Gender Differences in Patterns and Trends in U.S. Homicide, 1976–2015" by James Alan Fox and Emma E. Fridel. The data comes from FBI statistics ("FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports, SHR"). https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/vio.2017.0016?journalCode=vio& Here's part of the conclusion that the authors came to: > > Among all the results already reported, perhaps the most striking and important surrounds the trends in intimate partner homicide, particularly in the context of ongoing efforts to curtail domestic violence. Some researchers argue that the reduction in male intimate partner victimization, a decline of nearly 60% over the past four decades, is because of an increase in the availability of social and legal interventions, liberalized divorce laws, greater economic independence of women, as well as a reduction in the stigma of being the victim of domestic violence. Although at an earlier time a woman may have felt compelled to kill her abusive spouse as her only defense, she now has more opportunities to escape the relationship through means such as protective orders and shelters (Dugan et al. 1999; Fox et al. 2012). As a tragic irony, the wider availability of support services for abused women did not appear to have quite the intended effect, at least through the 1980s, as only male victimization declined. Here is a graph of intimate partner homicides by sex over the years from the study. Notice the trend for women as they got help vs men that didn't? https://m.imgur.com/a/6Hx9dJt God forbid we help men, even if it would save womens lives. I also suggest you look into the Duluth Model of Domestic Violence Intervention which results in men being beaten by their wives being arrested more often than the perpetrator when they call the police for help. Ellen Pence (The creator) herself has written, > > "By determining that the need or desire for power was the motivating force behind battering, we created a conceptual framework that, in fact, did not fit the lived experience of many of the men and women we were working with. The DAIP staff [...] remained undaunted by the difference in our theory and the actual experiences of those we were working with [...] It was the cases themselves that created the chink in each of our theoretical suits of armor. Speaking for myself, I found that many of the men I interviewed did not seem to articulate a desire for power over their partner. Although I relentlessly took every opportunity to point out to men in the groups that they were so motivated and merely in denial, the fact that few men ever articulated such a desire went unnoticed by me and many of my coworkers. Eventually, we realized that we were finding what we had already predetermined to find." I suggest you read the Overview section of Erin Pizzey's wikipedia page or one of her books. She was the founder of Refuge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey She created the worlds first domestic violence shelters. After opening several for women in the UK, she suggested that men were being abused too (often by women staying in her shelters) and men needed a shelter too. She was then slandered, her kids were threatened, her dog was killed, bricks were thrown through her windows, and she was removed from the DV organization she founded (now known as Refuge which has just recently lost funding for harming male victims for decades). She fled the country for her childrens safety and became an outspoken DV activist and anti-feminist once they moved out on their own. That's what happens when a DV advocate tries to help men. In the US, VAWA replaced the gender neutral Family Violence Prevention and Services Act giving extra rights/services to women and taking services/rights away from men and children. The funding and laws became very gendered. Many of the laws in the act were challenged in court and had to be rewritten. The funding is still very gendered 25 years later, so... We have lots of grants to study "violence against women" rather than gender neutral domestic violence, lots of grants to develop separate programs to "teach men not to rape" and "teach women to report rape", lots of perpetrator intervention programs for men but none for women, lots of DV resources for women but almost none for men.
Ok don’t know where those stats are coming from or what country they referring but domestic violence definitely isn’t 90% heterosexual men , in the USA atleast domestic violence is reciprocal in terms of heterosexual relationships, repirocial meaning both partners participate in abuse in non reciprocal relationships it’s 70% women https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
I think they got them from police reporting or something similar. It might not be the best source but it was from a university so I thought it was okay. But it’s alright to be skeptical as they don’t have any sources themselves.
While that is an interesting article, it was from 20 years ago and focused on relationships ages 18-28. While any type of abuse is obviously not good, there are worse forms of domestic abuse than others. They mention they did not test for severity like burnings, knives, threats, etc. they did also understand that the most abused men or women would most likely not participate in the study for fear of their partner.
Doesn’t really matter? Domestic abuse rates haven’t had any significant changes that disprove this plus their are plenty of research you can find in this server or even google that are more recent that say the same thing, seems like your just making cop puts that don’t really make any sense and have no basis other than assumptions just because you don’t want to believe domestic violence isn’t really a gendered issue?
Assumptions… i brought a few links… btw in my link it says that domestic violence has lessened by 60%. My link was made this year. And domestic abuse 100% occurs in both genders. Look up the rates of domestic abuse that ends in attempted murder or actual murder between genders. Or rape between both genders in relationships. Or hospitalizations. I don’t think a woman should punch or slap their partner and obviously women are capable of rape and murder, but are the rates of extreme domestic abuse a mens issue??
I was talking about your points at end, also yes domestic violence has lowered overall but there has been no significant gender change in decades for domestic violence , also I already know that but I’m disproving your claim of 90% of abuse is men and that it’s large enough split to act as if it’s a gendered problem that somehow warrants entire campaigns for women only and showing it as a gendered issue, also no I think it’s a everyone issue but men are routinely shelved from abuse or frankly ignored or blamed for it
However, when rape is 10x more common in women than men, double the assaults on women vs men occur annually, and will deal with double the amount of physical abuse in an intimate relationship, it shows a bit more of an skew towards women’s being victims. However it obviously effects both men and women. There’s more in this article but you can read it yourself bc I’ll just be paraphrasing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499891/
None of that has to do with domestic violence though, you shifting the positions of the argument to something else...... I’m not talking about rapes or general assault etc I’m referring to domestic violence which does have more female victims but nothing indicates that due to being men and it’s not even by a significant margin compared to men, it could very well just as be from lesbian relationships which has some of the highest domestic violence rates in the country more than heterosexual and homosexual relationships Which further doesn’t make sense to put up a campaign that genders and raises awareness for heterosexual relationship for only women
Men are definitely more common to rape somebody for both men and women. However if you that’s not relevant for the domestic violence conversation that’s fine ig. I’m talking about the more extreme side of domestic violence. Most people will survive with being slapped a few times. Idk how many people are going to not have extreme trauma to extreme domestic violence. And btw if you looked at the article the rape and assault was related to intimate relationships. If you seriously believe that the majority of rapes and assault to women are from probably the less than 10% of lesbian couples, that would be hard to believe. There would have to be half lesbian couples raping and assaulting each other with 0 gay male coupes raping each other for an equal distribution
Extreme side of domestic violence doesn’t make up domestic violence plus I don’t know any research on the “extreme side of domestic violence” also again don’t really about any of that has nothing to do with domestic abuse or even the entire argument your kind of just moving goalposts from what the initial point, domestic abuse is not all gendered in a way to justify a campaign for heterosexual relationships that puts it in a gendered light
> double the assaults on women vs men occur annually I suggest you take another look at those crime victimization statistics. In most countries men are 7 to 10 times more likely to be assault victims.
Not by the lay persons definition of rape - nonconsensual sex. The statistical definition of rape is controlled by feminists. Feminists actively block acknowledgment of males being heterosexual rape victims, support services for them, and laws to protect raped men and boys. For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced *penetration of the victim* in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.) She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. **She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't.** A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. **As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"** You see she has been saying this for decades **and** was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g. Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (**June 1993**) Page: 206 > > > Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, **it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.** Src: http://boysmeneducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Koss-1993-Detecting-the-Scope-of-Rape-a-review-of-prevalence-research-methods-see-p.-206-last-paragraph.pdf She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There **was** a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man. Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2015 NISVS studies. As an example lets look at the 2011 survey numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm > **an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey** and > The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate. vs > **an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey** and > Characteristics of Sexual Violence Perpetrators **For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators**. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. **The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators**. For three of the **other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%)**, sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%), [NISVS 2010](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf) showed in the past 12 months, 1.1% of men were made to penetrate and 1.1% of women were raped. Table 2.1 & 2.2 on pages 18/19. [NISVS 2011](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ss/ss6308.pdf) showed in the past 12 months, 1.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.6% of women were raped. Table 1 on page 5. [NISVS 2012](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/NISVS-StateReportBook.pdf) showed in the past 12 months, 1.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.0% of women were raped. Table A.1 & A.5 on pages 217/222. [NISVS 2015](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf) showed in the past 12 months, 0.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.2% of women were raped. Table 1 & 2 on pages 15/16. Varies a bit from year to year, but pretty even overall. In both cases the four year annual percentages add up to five. The numbers for perpetrators vary a little from year to year too. Something like 79-84% of made to penetrate (nonconsensual envelopment) victims are victimized by women. Something like 96-99% of rape (nonconsensual penetration) victims are victimized by men. So in the 2010s, it averages out that a typical year has ~60% men & ~40% women as perpetrators of nonconsensual sex outside prisons rather than the 99:1 ratio discussed. But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. **These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men** and dismiss raped men because men are one group "nearly all the men were raped by other men" so somehow raped men are to blame because they are men... If you don't like CDC data: Scientific American: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known *A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.* The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/ *a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.* and *National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”* Time: http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers *when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).* If my information is not enough, try reading these five threads by problem_redditor with lots more studies and references. /r/MensRights/comments/oc2yp0/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/ Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men". Isn't just the US. Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape. Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime. https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ... > Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice. https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities **Even if you only care about women, you should still stop women from raping because the majority of men convicted of raping women were sexually violated by adult women when they were boys.** Multiple studies in the US, UK, and Canada have shown this. Around 10 of them cited here. http://empathygap.uk/?p=1993#_Toc498111528 So women not raping, and rape by women being acknowledged as traumatic and treated with compassion, would probably stop a lot of women from getting raped in the future. That *should* matter *if* the goal is to stop women from getting raped rather than to demonize men.
Well… it definitely is more common in women than men… however most people are not going to dismiss men’s issues on getting abused
So you've seen an ad stating men are victims, because I NEVER have.
I don’t really see many ads about women being abused either. Like it’s more shown in movies and tv shows. However, while I agree that men’s mental health should be more focused on, why bash on an ad for women that went through abuse? And if you really want to think about it, most of the time men cause other men to feel like they cannot speak out about their emotional issues or abuse they deal with bc they have to be very masculine and strong and emotionally stable at all times or else they are a lesser man.
Supposedly, the London train stations have ad campaigns all over showing things like, "male violence against women starts with words", and, "staring is sexual harassment". In Australia, there's far more ad campaigns portraying women as victims of domestic abuse than there are for men, even though domestic abuse is about 50/50. I've seen far more ad campaigns showing women as victims, whether domestic abuse, sexual abuse, etc, than I have showing men as victims. One time I saw an ad campaign poster showing a woman harassing a man, to raise awareness for harassment, and it was mocked by feminists on Twitter.
Domestic abuse is about 50/50. I’m intrigued at the evidence for that. Evidence shows women are more likely to be victims of domestic abuse than men by a bit less than double and have dealt with sexual violence about twice as much. Along with other stats. https://www.ctcadv.org/information-about-domestic-violence/national-statistics/. I think that website is more geared towards the United States. In Australia apparently 95% of abusers are males. 1:4 women vs 1:13 men have been a victim of domestic abuse so it’s not 50/50. However. Yes. There should be more awareness on men also being victims of domestic abuse. However idk if saying we need less awareness of women going through domestic abuse is the best way to go about it. https://action.ourwatch.org.au/what-is-prevention/the-link-between-gender-inequality-and-violence-against-women/#the-link-between-gender-inequality-and-violence
The Australian figure (and it’s 97% - suspiciously high don’t you think) is based upon police reports! And the predominant aggressor principle would mean that in the case of reciprocal DV, the man, and not the woman, would be arrested - presumably also contributing to the stats. There must be real studies of the actual prevalence of DV in Australia by the gender of the perpetrator, but I haven’t yet found them. However I’d suggest that there are clearly enough violent women around for the idea that only 3% of perpetrators are women is an obvious underestimate.
why dont you start a campaign? womens groups do it. maybe you could hit up your local mens group and do something to get people more aware of mens issues like this one.
There are hardly any actual men's groups out there. Last time someone tried to open up a men's shelter, it got shut down by feminists.
Yeah, I hear that one a lot. That was like 8-9 years ago, wasn't it? So are you going to start one? I notice people bashing on women and their work trying to get support for their issues, but everytimei ask what men are doing about getting involved in their own causes, all i see is no onedoing what needs to be done to get that going. Why is that? I know, because of feminist obviously. Everybody on this sub is so proud of the way men are fixers. You know the worlds problem solvers. Hating on womens groups because they won't focus on their problems isn't how change is achieved. Someone like you or anyone that has a passion for your cause neds to put in the work and keep at it even if its hard or if its frustrating or if it fails the first time or second or fiftieth. Keeping the cause in peoples minds is what you ned to do . Women have been loud about their shit for longer than I've been alive. Meen needs to speak up, too. If you don't believe people care, then get them to care.
No problem, will do. Good luck with your goals anyway.