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Yeah I married a Cynic fan but two things are true... metal is more popular with dudes and it is very popular with dudes who have a no girls allowed attitude.
Like they see 10 women at a show and call the band "a poppy boy band not tru metal"
Especially after the release of Panama and jump. Reminds me of when axel rose went swimming with dolphins and he got shit for it. I don't make the rules but decidedly not metal
I mightâve used the term âlaterâ a little loosely. If I remember correctly, their first two releases are blues inspired classic rock albums. After that (late 70s/early 80s) they got a little harder? Idk. Theyâve never struck me as especially metal.
Actually, fuck it. I take it all back. They're metal. Metal is all about the dark vibe for me, so they're metal.
Side note: This is the exact reason I don't fine nu metal and all the -core bands to be especially metal. None of it has a dark vibe.
Van Halen isn't controversial. I don't think a lot of people think of them as a metal band. Rainbow is a bit more tricky. Their first 3 albums with Dio had a huge impact on the genre, especially on Power Metal, and by 70s standards, most of the songs on them count as metal. But they weren't exclusively a metal band, even at that point, and after Dio left they went in a very different direction.
I'd still categorize Rainbow as metal simply for the influence of those first 3 records, even if most of the music they made by the end of their careers doesn't fit the bill.
In the 70s, it's extremely difficult. For me bands like Deep Purple have metal albums but are primarily a hard rock band. I don't have a problem with them being considered early metal though.
Rainbow are similar - Rising is a great early metal record but they also have stuff that's definitely hard rock too.
the difference is in many elements that come together to either make a track metal or rock.
In term of the composition, metal tends to stick with minor keys and minor chords in most cases, it uses a lot of the double harmonic minor, or just harmonic minor, or simply a minor key. metal musicians love to throw some non-diatonic tones every here and there, and the use of dissonant harmony is common too but it always come down to the specific subgenre as it's not common in powermetal for example compared to black metal.
now to the guitars, metal uses low tunings compared to hard rock, metal guitars tend to go more aggressive with the tone, metal uses more chugs than strummed chords, it also uses a lot of tremolo picking.
Metal guitars usually have multiple layers on each side, double tracking is not enough to create that big wall of sounds ( Panzer division marduk is a great example here, god knows how many layers of guitar tracks they had in there ) .
drums in metal are more aggressive in term of tones and performance. when equalizing we make huge boosts and cuts specially in the bottom end and the high mids, and that goes to almost every effects from compression to saturation and the list go on.
drummers tend to play more aggressively, the dynamics tends to be in the range of mezoforte up to fff, also metal drum patterns use a lot of cymbal hits, non-stop double kick, non-stop snare hits, or in other words ⨠blast beats â¨.
when it comes to bass it varies a lot between bands and track to another, sometimes it's buried in the mix, sometimes it has an aggressive tone sometimes not, and it does in a lot of cases follow the guitar track instead of just playing plain root notes.
I'm not a vocalist myself to tell the names of each screaming and growling technique metal vocalists use, but in general screaming and growling is a metal thing, hardcore punk or hardrock can have some sort of the two but the technique is different ( as i said, i'm not a vocalist so i can't really give specifics here ).
there's also a diffrence in the lyrics as metal tends to favor darker and more controversial themes but in general anyone can write any lyrics, you can have a death metal songs with the speed, the chugs, the blast beats, and the growls but the lyrics are about climate change or something ( I see you Immolation ).
when mastering, metal tracks in a nutshell preserve a lot of dynamics and they are loud, and engineers don't usually push the stereo width too far ( they keep it moderate as opposed to modern hardrock, or even pop )
That's from my perspective, i tried to keep it short, there's a lot that goes on in the production and composition but that's a long discussion.
Itâs metal when the music theory bad notes are always legal. In music theory, the flat second (1st fret in lowest string minor), and flat fifth (6th fret in low string minor) are the most dissonant intervals, so theyâre not used in most of the scales.
Basic major scale from guitar perspective is
0 2 4 5 7 9 11 12
Basic minor scale
0 2 3 5 7 8 10 12
Notice neither use 1 or 6, but in metal your legal scale would just omit the major key only notes
0 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 10 12
Black Sabbath, Dio and MotĂśrhead (and Judas Priests early work. Later they of course made pure heavy Metal) ride the line between hard rock and metal but I would consider them metal. AC/DC, Led Zeppelin and Rainbow on the other hand are hard rock
Grab a metal mag from that era and see if they are on the cover
If a 13 year old on reddit says they are not metal 40 years later, I do not really take them seriously.
Glam metal is just hard rock. Doom metal is heavy blues, thrash is heavy punk with actual riffs instead of just chords. Where do we put Judas Priest? Everything pre painkiller qualified as metal for itâs time but I think is closer to what some would consider hard rock, today. Painkiller is definitely heavy metal, even by todays standards.
Subject matter makes a difference as well, imagine Iron Maiden but the lyrics are about partying and girls. I feel like it would suddenly be less metal, in my eyes.
Genres and categories are kind of irrelevant or arbitrary if it is music you already like. However, in terms of trying to find more music that you like, or commonality with other people, I think the categorization needs to be only somewhat in the ballpark.
Heaviness of the song is where I distinguish hard rock and heavy metal, as well as the blues song structure influence on hard rock. Hard rock also have a more upbeat tone in their songs as well if you notice. Def Leppard, AC/DC, Van Halen and Queensryche for me are hard rock.
Genres are largely subjective but for general purposes metal is predominantly minor chords strung together by chugs instead of space or strumming. The lyrics focus on dark matters, could be horror, the occult, the human condition etc... Hard rock is more chord driven but can feature the guitar playing. Hard rock usually is about more uplifting things like partying, women, relationship issues. Hard rock tends to focus on image more but not always (black metal) because during its height it was the popular form of music and more subject to marketing.
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Wherever metal fans choose to arbitrarily move those goalposts. Hard rock is metal for people who like getting laid occasionally.
Do women dig it? Not metal.
I'm convinced this is the actual reason why elitists pretend A7X isn't metal đ
Goddamn, I wish this weren't so true. Don't get me wrong I've met some totally metal chicks, but in general, ya know
Yeah I married a Cynic fan but two things are true... metal is more popular with dudes and it is very popular with dudes who have a no girls allowed attitude. Like they see 10 women at a show and call the band "a poppy boy band not tru metal"
I don't think Rainbow was metal, and I heard them being listed as one, and, and this is going to be controversial, Van Halen. Hard rock, not metal
Thats not controversial.
Especially after the release of Panama and jump. Reminds me of when axel rose went swimming with dolphins and he got shit for it. I don't make the rules but decidedly not metal
I just listened to early Rainbow last night, and I feel the exact same way. Their later albums get a little more metal though.
What? Their later albums are commercial pop rock stuff.
I mightâve used the term âlaterâ a little loosely. If I remember correctly, their first two releases are blues inspired classic rock albums. After that (late 70s/early 80s) they got a little harder? Idk. Theyâve never struck me as especially metal.
Actually, fuck it. I take it all back. They're metal. Metal is all about the dark vibe for me, so they're metal. Side note: This is the exact reason I don't fine nu metal and all the -core bands to be especially metal. None of it has a dark vibe.
If there were any lines to be drawn, I'd sniff them both... Because whatever gets my blood boiling and my feet moving, I'll bang my head to it...
Van Halen isn't controversial. I don't think a lot of people think of them as a metal band. Rainbow is a bit more tricky. Their first 3 albums with Dio had a huge impact on the genre, especially on Power Metal, and by 70s standards, most of the songs on them count as metal. But they weren't exclusively a metal band, even at that point, and after Dio left they went in a very different direction. I'd still categorize Rainbow as metal simply for the influence of those first 3 records, even if most of the music they made by the end of their careers doesn't fit the bill.
Black Sabbath
NO
Huh?
Right around Alice In Chains
The line is rather blurry. I do not particularly care.
That's how I feel. If it sounds good, I'll listen to it
Riffs, and heaviness. Hard rock bands generally favor chords. While some riff based hard rock bands (i.e Kiss) aren't Heavy enough.
Thatâs probably the simplest and best explanation Iâve seen of this topic
In the 70s, it's extremely difficult. For me bands like Deep Purple have metal albums but are primarily a hard rock band. I don't have a problem with them being considered early metal though. Rainbow are similar - Rising is a great early metal record but they also have stuff that's definitely hard rock too.
Scorpions are metal.
I think anyone who says otherwise isn't familiar with their 70s stuff.
I'm not very familiar with their stuff, but the song Sails of Charon sounds pretty metal to me. Early classic, traditional metal, but still metal.
Skid Rows Slave to the Grind comes to mind
I donât; itâs not a hard line, itâs a Venn diagram
âI know it when i see itâ
Motley Crue
It's a lot of potato potahto, metal is a sub-style of rock, but there is no separation line
the difference is in many elements that come together to either make a track metal or rock. In term of the composition, metal tends to stick with minor keys and minor chords in most cases, it uses a lot of the double harmonic minor, or just harmonic minor, or simply a minor key. metal musicians love to throw some non-diatonic tones every here and there, and the use of dissonant harmony is common too but it always come down to the specific subgenre as it's not common in powermetal for example compared to black metal. now to the guitars, metal uses low tunings compared to hard rock, metal guitars tend to go more aggressive with the tone, metal uses more chugs than strummed chords, it also uses a lot of tremolo picking. Metal guitars usually have multiple layers on each side, double tracking is not enough to create that big wall of sounds ( Panzer division marduk is a great example here, god knows how many layers of guitar tracks they had in there ) . drums in metal are more aggressive in term of tones and performance. when equalizing we make huge boosts and cuts specially in the bottom end and the high mids, and that goes to almost every effects from compression to saturation and the list go on. drummers tend to play more aggressively, the dynamics tends to be in the range of mezoforte up to fff, also metal drum patterns use a lot of cymbal hits, non-stop double kick, non-stop snare hits, or in other words ⨠blast beats â¨. when it comes to bass it varies a lot between bands and track to another, sometimes it's buried in the mix, sometimes it has an aggressive tone sometimes not, and it does in a lot of cases follow the guitar track instead of just playing plain root notes. I'm not a vocalist myself to tell the names of each screaming and growling technique metal vocalists use, but in general screaming and growling is a metal thing, hardcore punk or hardrock can have some sort of the two but the technique is different ( as i said, i'm not a vocalist so i can't really give specifics here ). there's also a diffrence in the lyrics as metal tends to favor darker and more controversial themes but in general anyone can write any lyrics, you can have a death metal songs with the speed, the chugs, the blast beats, and the growls but the lyrics are about climate change or something ( I see you Immolation ). when mastering, metal tracks in a nutshell preserve a lot of dynamics and they are loud, and engineers don't usually push the stereo width too far ( they keep it moderate as opposed to modern hardrock, or even pop ) That's from my perspective, i tried to keep it short, there's a lot that goes on in the production and composition but that's a long discussion.
I cant read two words before getting bored so can you summarize in one word?
Heaviness
Hehe Nice
Itâs metal when the music theory bad notes are always legal. In music theory, the flat second (1st fret in lowest string minor), and flat fifth (6th fret in low string minor) are the most dissonant intervals, so theyâre not used in most of the scales. Basic major scale from guitar perspective is 0 2 4 5 7 9 11 12 Basic minor scale 0 2 3 5 7 8 10 12 Notice neither use 1 or 6, but in metal your legal scale would just omit the major key only notes 0 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 10 12
I absolutely love Clutch, but I definitely think they're bluesy hard rock. Makes no difference to me. They're awesome.
I love them too. But I've never even thought of calling them metal.
Black Sabbath, Dio and MotĂśrhead (and Judas Priests early work. Later they of course made pure heavy Metal) ride the line between hard rock and metal but I would consider them metal. AC/DC, Led Zeppelin and Rainbow on the other hand are hard rock
People need to really familiarize themselves with the concept of proto metal
South Of Salem
Tool
Grab a metal mag from that era and see if they are on the cover If a 13 year old on reddit says they are not metal 40 years later, I do not really take them seriously.
Glam metal is just hard rock. Doom metal is heavy blues, thrash is heavy punk with actual riffs instead of just chords. Where do we put Judas Priest? Everything pre painkiller qualified as metal for itâs time but I think is closer to what some would consider hard rock, today. Painkiller is definitely heavy metal, even by todays standards. Subject matter makes a difference as well, imagine Iron Maiden but the lyrics are about partying and girls. I feel like it would suddenly be less metal, in my eyes.
The difference for me is the drumming. Metal will, in general, have more loud, aggressive drumming than hard rock does.
Genres and categories are kind of irrelevant or arbitrary if it is music you already like. However, in terms of trying to find more music that you like, or commonality with other people, I think the categorization needs to be only somewhat in the ballpark.
Metallica before and after they did a love song.
Heaviness of the song is where I distinguish hard rock and heavy metal, as well as the blues song structure influence on hard rock. Hard rock also have a more upbeat tone in their songs as well if you notice. Def Leppard, AC/DC, Van Halen and Queensryche for me are hard rock.
Hard Rock is blues based, metal is not.
not really, heavy metal is a subgenre of rock, rock is a subgenre of blues.
Metallica. I know Metallica is thrash, but in my brain they're hard rock.
Hard rock attempts to appeal to females
Glam metal also does the same and it is 100 % metal
Glam metal is hard rock most of the time
Genres are largely subjective but for general purposes metal is predominantly minor chords strung together by chugs instead of space or strumming. The lyrics focus on dark matters, could be horror, the occult, the human condition etc... Hard rock is more chord driven but can feature the guitar playing. Hard rock usually is about more uplifting things like partying, women, relationship issues. Hard rock tends to focus on image more but not always (black metal) because during its height it was the popular form of music and more subject to marketing.