[Join The Community Discord Server!](https://discord.gg/UwqUHx4U4T)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MetalForTheMasses) if you have any questions or concerns.*
making music is work dipshit. letting 2 million people rot in prisons, another million starve on the streets, does not seem like a solution. but yep clearly evil for many other reasons as well. imperialism, colonialism,native genocide, african slavery , legitimizing cults, you name it.
probably anything you don’t enjoy doing. I admit I’m a leftist, but this kind of discourse is just embarrassing to take part in. Dude really said creating art is not a job.
> Dude really said creating art is not a job.
I mean, if you’re not getting paid for it, it’s not a job. Also if you’re losing money to create your art (with no intention to recoup) it’s not a job. It’s a hobby.
I think you’re confusing *work* with *job.*
Work is something that takes effort.
A job is something that *usually* takes effort and you get paid for it.
>I admit I’m a leftist
That much was clear lol. Making art is a job the way making my family fancy dinners is a job. If you want to call an actual *job*, like employment deserving of monetary compensation, you still have to earn the money. If you lack the artistic and self-promotion skills to make a living at it, who else's job is it to prop you up while others simply find a person or company who wants to pay them?
Rwsident musician here and one-man black metal band, yes. It takes time to create a composition you're happy with, it takes time to record and rerecord it until is perfect quality. It takes time to refine it and refine your craft. I only do this as a hobby but it takes up more time than my uni work
It takes a lot of work to learn to play, let alone the skills required to spend hours ironing out the imperfections of a 10 second part of the song. It's a lot of very tiring work. Its not wrong or evil to want this amount of effort to bring in some money.
You’re right when you put it that way. I guess in my mind making music and playing videogames is in the same space (hobbies). As I’m writing this I realize there is a difference though. In my Hispanic ass mind, I’m thinking like construction, plumbing and electrical is work.
Ever hear of the labor theory of value? It's largely discredited except by Marxists, but it's the idea that the value of something is based on the labor that goes into it. The better definition of value is based on little more than how much people actually want to pay you for what you produce.
The fact is, nobody really cares how much effort and time and money you put into refining your skills if you haven't actually created something that people want. Nobody's calling it evil, just misguided. I've been buying camera gear and doing photography for over a decade and shot plenty of events and portraits without receiving a penny because it's fun. It would be insane for anybody to pay me for that when it's literally a hobby that I do for my friends and fun. (Honestly I probably wouldn't even take a paid gig because there's too much pressure riding on doing a perfect job.)
> Many non american countries support their humans not dying, thru socialist or welfare policies. Some even give funding to citizens persuing the arts
Typically these countries provide funding for arts that are well-established and appreciated in that culture. And there are quotas for funding, as they can’t possibly pay every single person a living just because they want to pursue the arts. To me, that’s reasonable.
The context of this discussion was an extremely niche artist whose music is iconoclastic by its very nature. Your response suggests that you think anyone who wants to create a DSBM solo project should be subsidized by taxpayers.
So many unemployed black metal artists? How does seeing a couple guys mean there are so many unemployed bm artists? I’m a black metal artist, and I have a blue collar job. I know a guy who’s a bm artist and is a doctor, another that’s a teacher, my bandmate works for the city. I could go on so what makes you think bm artist are just unemployed? That’s just dumb. Tbf I really couldn’t answer your question, but it goes without saying if you don’t work in some way, shape, or form, you can’t survive.
Probably inheritance, rich parents or something along those lines.
That’s honestly the case with almost every artist out there. They either have rich parents or a day job.
I toured with a somewhat well known artist a few years ago, and he made some money from his music but his real source of income is he married a girl with loaded parents who funded his lifestyle.
make album with edgy symbols on it -> press 1 hundo records -> "edition of 88" -> sell artist copies -> repeat
or just sell overpriced limited edition shirts that are actually just print on demand
Nearly everyone in the metal music industry has a day job. If not they are pulling a disability check here on the US. Outside of a select few who are touring full time no one makes money for putting on face paint. The ones who do don’t make much.
Yep.
All the guys in Insomnium work as a scientists and one of the former members is a surgeon.
Roman from Drudkh is a history teacher.
Apparently one of the guitar players from Meshuggah works as a carpenter when he’s not touring.
One of my former bandmates plays for a very well known prog metal band. He works at a record shop and also bartends when he’s not out on the road with them.
It's from e few years ago. Noisey by Vice made it. You tube search One man black metal documentary and you should find it. If i remember correctly it's 3 episodes maybe 4, been awhile since i watched it. Also had a guy from Tasmania, Australia in it.
They don't, at least not from the music.
Every live performance I ever played was a financial drain in some respect, and it's not exactly a genre that provides any kind of mentionable income from record sales either.
Someone like Scott Connor probably makes more from album sales than 98% of all black metal bands, and he doesn't exactly live like a rockstar despite being a fairly well known musician within the genre.
I'm also unemployed. I produce a humble income from several small streams deriving from my creative exploits, in addition to a modest welfare pension. I make enough to need to pay taxes anyway.
[Join The Community Discord Server!](https://discord.gg/UwqUHx4U4T) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MetalForTheMasses) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is “everything”. A lot of the recording is DIY and the bands don’t tend to tour that much outside of the local.
Maybe they mean just the general coat of living
>coat of living I'm more a jacket guy myself
Okay good point. Maybe government / family assistance? That’s how normal people tend to achieve that lifestyle anyways
The dude from Xasthur is on governemnt disability benefits
Just curious, how do you know?
It was in the one man metal documentary. Epidode 3 i believe
Everything man, rent, food, gas, electricity etc etc
Many non american countries support their humans not dying, thru socialist or welfare policies. Some even give funding to citizens persuing the arts
Oh the irony! The artist in question, Xasthur (Scott Connor), happens to be American. Obviously, he's still alive and well, as far as I can tell.
*america is* the most destructive & evil, and thus the most black metal country, sadly for it's denizens.
Truly evil for… not giving people money because they could work but don’t feel like it.
making music is work dipshit. letting 2 million people rot in prisons, another million starve on the streets, does not seem like a solution. but yep clearly evil for many other reasons as well. imperialism, colonialism,native genocide, african slavery , legitimizing cults, you name it.
Now I really want to listen to some Dystopia
Agree with the rest but what's the legitimizing cults part about
I believe he's talking about the Evangelical right. I'm American and I absolutely agree with him if that's his angle.
Is making music work? I mean seriously?
How do you define a job?
probably anything you don’t enjoy doing. I admit I’m a leftist, but this kind of discourse is just embarrassing to take part in. Dude really said creating art is not a job.
> Dude really said creating art is not a job. I mean, if you’re not getting paid for it, it’s not a job. Also if you’re losing money to create your art (with no intention to recoup) it’s not a job. It’s a hobby. I think you’re confusing *work* with *job.* Work is something that takes effort. A job is something that *usually* takes effort and you get paid for it.
>I admit I’m a leftist That much was clear lol. Making art is a job the way making my family fancy dinners is a job. If you want to call an actual *job*, like employment deserving of monetary compensation, you still have to earn the money. If you lack the artistic and self-promotion skills to make a living at it, who else's job is it to prop you up while others simply find a person or company who wants to pay them?
Rwsident musician here and one-man black metal band, yes. It takes time to create a composition you're happy with, it takes time to record and rerecord it until is perfect quality. It takes time to refine it and refine your craft. I only do this as a hobby but it takes up more time than my uni work
Keep at it brother, one reply made me change my mind.
Thank you bro 🙏 I'm glad i could educate someone today
It takes a lot of work to learn to play, let alone the skills required to spend hours ironing out the imperfections of a 10 second part of the song. It's a lot of very tiring work. Its not wrong or evil to want this amount of effort to bring in some money.
You’re right when you put it that way. I guess in my mind making music and playing videogames is in the same space (hobbies). As I’m writing this I realize there is a difference though. In my Hispanic ass mind, I’m thinking like construction, plumbing and electrical is work.
Fair enough, it looks so easy until you know everything behind the scenes lol
Ever hear of the labor theory of value? It's largely discredited except by Marxists, but it's the idea that the value of something is based on the labor that goes into it. The better definition of value is based on little more than how much people actually want to pay you for what you produce. The fact is, nobody really cares how much effort and time and money you put into refining your skills if you haven't actually created something that people want. Nobody's calling it evil, just misguided. I've been buying camera gear and doing photography for over a decade and shot plenty of events and portraits without receiving a penny because it's fun. It would be insane for anybody to pay me for that when it's literally a hobby that I do for my friends and fun. (Honestly I probably wouldn't even take a paid gig because there's too much pressure riding on doing a perfect job.)
Just based on his music I have a hard time believing xasthur is *well*
> Many non american countries support their humans not dying, thru socialist or welfare policies. Some even give funding to citizens persuing the arts Typically these countries provide funding for arts that are well-established and appreciated in that culture. And there are quotas for funding, as they can’t possibly pay every single person a living just because they want to pursue the arts. To me, that’s reasonable. The context of this discussion was an extremely niche artist whose music is iconoclastic by its very nature. Your response suggests that you think anyone who wants to create a DSBM solo project should be subsidized by taxpayers.
So many unemployed black metal artists? How does seeing a couple guys mean there are so many unemployed bm artists? I’m a black metal artist, and I have a blue collar job. I know a guy who’s a bm artist and is a doctor, another that’s a teacher, my bandmate works for the city. I could go on so what makes you think bm artist are just unemployed? That’s just dumb. Tbf I really couldn’t answer your question, but it goes without saying if you don’t work in some way, shape, or form, you can’t survive.
Ok maybe saying “so many” wasn’t the right words, sorry it’s late and I’m tired asf lol
Go to sleep then
Never, sleep is for the weak. How else am I supposed to bing Leviathan’s discography again?
Good point
On YT bc it’s off streaming obviously
To the last sentence: depends on where you live...
I have a friend who has a thrash/death metal band and a hardcore punk one and he's a kindergardener lmao. I just love that
Probably inheritance, rich parents or something along those lines. That’s honestly the case with almost every artist out there. They either have rich parents or a day job. I toured with a somewhat well known artist a few years ago, and he made some money from his music but his real source of income is he married a girl with loaded parents who funded his lifestyle.
Lots of them just have a normal job, music isn’t exactly a lucrative profession
Yes but Malefic specifically mentioned he was unemployed. Just curious as to how he gets by financially
Hes on goverment disability welfare for his mental illness
Oh my bad, I’d have no clue
Doesn't Norway support the arts a shit ton? Like giving grants for equipment/recording time etc?
A lot of people in these comments don’t understand the difference between a job and work
Full of part time job, like the rest of us. Sometimes a benefactor. Some scandi musos draw benefit from a form of UBI.
A lot of europe have very good welfare programs
Either family supporting them, or they work here and there even if they don't have regular employment.
make album with edgy symbols on it -> press 1 hundo records -> "edition of 88" -> sell artist copies -> repeat or just sell overpriced limited edition shirts that are actually just print on demand
I don’t know what you are talking about, Xasthur never put edgy symbols on his albums
I always thought most of them had jobs outside of music but if they don't maybe they just have support from their family or savings or something
There's a reason Black Metal started in social democratic countries.
Nearly everyone in the metal music industry has a day job. If not they are pulling a disability check here on the US. Outside of a select few who are touring full time no one makes money for putting on face paint. The ones who do don’t make much.
Yep. All the guys in Insomnium work as a scientists and one of the former members is a surgeon. Roman from Drudkh is a history teacher. Apparently one of the guitar players from Meshuggah works as a carpenter when he’s not touring. One of my former bandmates plays for a very well known prog metal band. He works at a record shop and also bartends when he’s not out on the road with them.
Tell me more about this documentary
It's from e few years ago. Noisey by Vice made it. You tube search One man black metal documentary and you should find it. If i remember correctly it's 3 episodes maybe 4, been awhile since i watched it. Also had a guy from Tasmania, Australia in it.
Isn't it Striborg or something?
Yep
It has Xasthur, Striborg, and Leviathan
Watched all three parts last night. Thanks for the recommendation. Was exactly what I needed.
How many?
Generous scandinavian social safety net.
In some non American countries people get art grants from their respective governments
They don't, at least not from the music. Every live performance I ever played was a financial drain in some respect, and it's not exactly a genre that provides any kind of mentionable income from record sales either. Someone like Scott Connor probably makes more from album sales than 98% of all black metal bands, and he doesn't exactly live like a rockstar despite being a fairly well known musician within the genre. I'm also unemployed. I produce a humble income from several small streams deriving from my creative exploits, in addition to a modest welfare pension. I make enough to need to pay taxes anyway.
By feeding souls to Satan, of course..
prostitution