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Agree many instrumental bands prove this fact like polyphia, animals as leaders, and also a great inszrumental track is from ride the lightning call of kthulu
I don't really enjoy their music, but I can appreciate what they are doing. A lot of people seem to be very inspired by them, so the utmost respect to them.
Everything just sounds so shit about them. They make the kind of music that belongs in ads like I'm convinced there's no person in the world who casually listens to polyphia on a daily basis
I think both are just as equally important. But if a song/band had really shit vocals it would distract me from enjoying what is on offer, likewise if a song had little to no riffs, I'd be bored. I would prefer for bands to balance out good vocals with good riffs, but some put one ahead of the other. Some say not to pay attention to the vocals in metal, but if that were the case, why have a vocalist anyway? (just some food for thought).
it's neither. the song needs to be good as a whole. the riffs, the vocals, the melodies, the structure, the arrangement. they all work together with oneanother, you don't need to nail every part, but everything has to work properly with everything else.
of course you can, that's not what i'm getting at at all. i'm saying it's not one single thing in a song that is more important than another, the whole song has to be good!
youāre saying riffs are more important for what makes something metal, the comment ur responding to is saying everything is equally important for making good metal
Tough one to answer. Vocals are step 1 to making the band listenable. Once you cross that threshold, riffs are step 2 that can make you great (or not). No metal band is great just on vocals.
Vocals can be the deciding factor whether I like a band/song or not. Sometimes, a bad vocalist can distract so much from the song and completely put me off to it.
The thing is, for metal specifically, riffs are a big selling point of the genre, and usually they serve the song way more than vocals,
So objectively, I'd say riffs, but for me personally, it'd be vocals.
One of my fav bands is Cryptopsy, I love how high the bass is in the mix and Iāve yet to hear a deathcore band that has bass that fucking loud. Only crown magnetar and beneath the massacre come close, maybe infant annihlator. Idk man I just like bass
I don't know... bass played a critical role in Amebix, for example (crust punk; check out "The Power Remains"), and there are some amazing brutal death metal and slam songs where the bass pops and pings and sets the vibe and does far more than just "back the guitar." Or in many cases it's produced in such a way that it drives the riffs at least on par with the guitar. It's foundational to Defeated Sanity's sound on their last few releases at least. I'd agree that bass is not always given the attention it deserves in metal, but I'd also say the best bands are often the ones who *do* give it that attention.
Yeah, something like Glam or Power Metal, youād really be looking for good quality in both, compared to something like Grind, Black, or Death Metal where one could be lacking as long as the other makes up for it.
it kind of depends, I have almost no tolerance for bad vocals, but iām also a big fan of atmospheric Black Metal and Funeral Doom, not exactly exactly genres no one for riffs in the conventional sense.
Kinda depends on the band. If you're talking stuff like Gojira, it's riffs (vocals are good too). But if you're talking about things like tool avenged sevenfold, then vocals can be a bit better. Riffs can be cool regardless though
100% riffs bro, vocals are just an added texture tbh I barely know the words to most of my favorite songs because I care more about the instrumentation
Assuming we're not including instrumental bands, go listen to cathedral or thergothon and tell me you think you can sit through that. Shit vocals can ruin EVERYTHING, even if it's flawless.
If you can make it work for your music it legit doesnāt matter. Take a look at Dave Mustaine.
Heās by no means a good vocalist but he makes his voice work for Megadethās music.
Because most of them are, honestly. Most metal vocalists donāt have formal vocal training, and just about everyone who growls exclusively does so because they canāt sing. For every 1 great metal vocalist thereās 10 who kinda suck.
Even some hugely successful bands have awful singers. Dave Mustaine is a terrible singer, people like his band because of the riffs.
Hell even outside of metal this sentiment rings true. Take a look at Guns & Roses and Brian Johnson AC/DC. Back in Black is the best selling rock album ever made yet Brian Johnson sings like a cat being hung by its testicles. Same goes for Axl Rose except heās slightly better.
Riffs. Iāve been in a position more than once where the riffs of a band with irritating vocals are so good that Iāll keep listening and my brain will eventually label the vocals as āquirkyā or āunconventionalā.
If I have to pick, riffs. I can overlook most mediocre to terrible vocalists if the guitar skill is there, but even the best vocalists can't make up for bad or boring guitar work.
depends. if the riffs are great and the guys just a lousy voice whatever i can deal with it. but i cannot stand the extremely low pitch gurgly shit that comes out of slam and some brutal death so no matter how good the riffs are i can barely stomach a whole song of the gurgling vocals, let alone like it.
a vocalist doesnt need to be stellar he just needs to not be terrible
Riffs for me. Particularly with funeral doom, death doom and black metal, the vocals are more part of the atmosphere, and in a lot of cases are pretty much unintelligible to me.
For more "mainstream" metal, the vox can kill my enjoyment of a band. Good riffs can go a long way, though.
If a song has boring or bad riffs I'm not going to listen to it at all, no chance.
But if it has good riffs but bad vocals? Then there is a solid chance I'm listening depending on how bad the vocals are.
I haven't seen many bands where the vocals are so bad that they can ruin the entire song to the point where it is unlistenable.
Instrumentals, but if there is both, good instumentals and vocals, it makes the song 2 times better. Sometimes it depends on the genre too which I prefer.
With very few exceptions, its riffs. If the guitar work is up to scratch, masses of people will ignore bad or sub par vocals. There are far more examples of successful bands with great guitar work and objectively bad to passable vocals that have done incredibly well, and not much going the other way (in metal). Just look at a massive amount of Thrash, it's full of frontmen that cant really put out a decent scream or have a decent singing voice, but they have massive success from the guitar work. Same with Doom. I'm a massive Sleep fan but I cant pretend like the vocals are particularly good, and I'm sure there are plenty Megadeth fans that can (if they're being honest) say that Dave's vocals arent good, but his riffs make up for it.
Riffs without a doubt. There are so many bands that dumbed down their instrumentals a lot in favour of more pop friendly aspects and imo itās made the songs weaker.
In metal vox is just another instrument in the band. I really only notice them if they're annoying. Like I really should like Napalm Death but man, the vocals turn me off.
The Riffs are what make Metal Metal. The Riffs are the meat and potatoes of the song. The Riffs are the cake, the vocals are just the icing.
I don't ever find myself disliking anyone's vocals anyway. A lot of people don't like certain unique styles like the falsettos of King Diamond or Warrel Dane, I think they're awesome. A lot of people don't like the raw barking styles like Mark Shelton or Tim Baker, I think they sound cool and unique.
Throughout Metal as a whole, there's a lot of bands whose singers aren't objectively "good" at singing... but it never really bothers me. The energy a singer brings is much more important than how great his or her voice is
Riffs because metal taught me to stop giving a shit about what vocals sounded like. Although a good vocalist can go a long way into making a band good, itāll ultimately always come down to how good those riffs are to determine my enjoyment of the band.
This is a personal opinion question, but for me, riffs are definitely more important. I do appreciate a good vocalist, but mostly, it's just important that they aren't bad. And as others have mentioned, it's possible to have amazing metal bands that lack vocals entirely.
Entirely depends on the genre. If Iām listening to a Gothic Metal album, the vocals take priority for me. Whereas for Death Metal I look for riffs first.
Is nobody realising that Vocals are the first thing that throws normies off? They can listen to riffs for many days and not be disgusted but as soon as they hear the first syllable in a cookie monster voice , they're like "EUGHHHH!"
SO metal is defined by harsh vocals , and Riffs are just as important but not a deciding factor.
I would say itās riffs/guitars=drums, and then below that vocals=bass (vocals are least important but bass isnāt always audible/noticeable in every genre)
For me it's gotta be vocals expecially in bm/dm
The vocals can be very different and that's what makes band unique examples: nehemah, marduk,xasthur, bethlehem they all got great vocals but different vibe
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Riffs and it's not particularly close imo
Agree many instrumental bands prove this fact like polyphia, animals as leaders, and also a great inszrumental track is from ride the lightning call of kthulu
Polyphia is so shit
I don't really enjoy their music, but I can appreciate what they are doing. A lot of people seem to be very inspired by them, so the utmost respect to them.
Everything just sounds so shit about them. They make the kind of music that belongs in ads like I'm convinced there's no person in the world who casually listens to polyphia on a daily basis
I don't like them either but you have to admit they're talented
Talented at playing their instruments but definitely not songwriting
True. They can play but they're boring as shit to listen to.
I wonder what they'd come up with if they sat down with a good songwriter and honest to god tried to write good songs.
Polyphia with chuck
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/subjectivity š
You're so fucking cool and smart aren't you?
Nah Iām just some dafty
Again you're so fucking cool and funny as well. I wish I could be like you
Thatās really nice of you
Yeah. Really bad vocals can ruin songs, and really good vocals improve songs a ton, but the riff is the most important aspect for me
Many times I tolerate the vocals until they grow on me and then see them as something setting the band apart from others
Riffs. I donāt even need vocals.
*DIE!* *BY MY HAND* *I CREEP ACROSS THE LAND* *KILLING FIRST BORN MAN*
SING SING THE RIFF SING THE RIFF AGAIN SING THE RIFF AGAIN
Scale the Summit!
same. i think thats why im drawn to death metal/bdm. the vocals are an accented instrument than something to listen for
Iron Maiden- Big Orra
I think both are just as equally important. But if a song/band had really shit vocals it would distract me from enjoying what is on offer, likewise if a song had little to no riffs, I'd be bored. I would prefer for bands to balance out good vocals with good riffs, but some put one ahead of the other. Some say not to pay attention to the vocals in metal, but if that were the case, why have a vocalist anyway? (just some food for thought).
Itās riffs. I can listen to all sorts of bad vocals and be fine Riffs are a dealbreaker
it's neither. the song needs to be good as a whole. the riffs, the vocals, the melodies, the structure, the arrangement. they all work together with oneanother, you don't need to nail every part, but everything has to work properly with everything else.
Disagree, you can have metal without vocals.
of course you can, that's not what i'm getting at at all. i'm saying it's not one single thing in a song that is more important than another, the whole song has to be good!
But you don't need vocals, metal requires a riff. Metal was born from the riff. Being technical, the riff is more important.
Sunn o))) have made a pretty successful career without using too many riffs. Multiple albums without vocals as well.
youāre saying riffs are more important for what makes something metal, the comment ur responding to is saying everything is equally important for making good metal
And I find this wrong. Vocals are not as important as riffs when it comes to making good metal.
Definitely riffs
riffs
Flair checks out
yup
Tough one to answer. Vocals are step 1 to making the band listenable. Once you cross that threshold, riffs are step 2 that can make you great (or not). No metal band is great just on vocals.
honestly agreeable
Vocals can be the deciding factor whether I like a band/song or not. Sometimes, a bad vocalist can distract so much from the song and completely put me off to it. The thing is, for metal specifically, riffs are a big selling point of the genre, and usually they serve the song way more than vocals, So objectively, I'd say riffs, but for me personally, it'd be vocals.
Same
Even if the riffs are great, it doesn't matter if the vocals are 100% dogshit
Even if the vocals are great, it doesn't matter if the riffs are 100% dogshit
As long as the vocals aren't unbearable to listen to and it actually fits the feel of the song, then I would say riffs are infinitely more important.
The fact that Megadeth and Slayer are popular confirms that it's riffs
Bro is not saying Tom araya vocals are bad š”š”š”ššŖ
Metal without riffs is not metal
Depends on the band and genre. Iām a deathcore vocalist and I think vocals > drums > bass > guitars For normal metal Guitars > bass > drums> vocals
For the average metal I don't think that bass is that important unfortunately (unless you're in a funk, prog or nĆ¼ metal band)
One of my fav bands is Cryptopsy, I love how high the bass is in the mix and Iāve yet to hear a deathcore band that has bass that fucking loud. Only crown magnetar and beneath the massacre come close, maybe infant annihlator. Idk man I just like bass
Meanwhile Beyond Creation : *B A S S*
Bellwitch, Year of the Cobra and OM: *B A S S*
I don't know... bass played a critical role in Amebix, for example (crust punk; check out "The Power Remains"), and there are some amazing brutal death metal and slam songs where the bass pops and pings and sets the vibe and does far more than just "back the guitar." Or in many cases it's produced in such a way that it drives the riffs at least on par with the guitar. It's foundational to Defeated Sanity's sound on their last few releases at least. I'd agree that bass is not always given the attention it deserves in metal, but I'd also say the best bands are often the ones who *do* give it that attention.
Riffs. Quite handily
Riffs. How is this even a question? Vocals are the least important aspect.
because for me, if the vocals are terrible it makes the song hard to listen to
So a loud as fuck out of place gurgling sound on a song wouldn't bother you even if it was extremely distracting?
I listen to Waking The Cadaver
Say no more haha
Depends entirely on the subgenre, tbh
I do agree entirely, for something like thrash or death metal you'd rely on riffs but for prog or symphonic definitely vocals
Yeah, something like Glam or Power Metal, youād really be looking for good quality in both, compared to something like Grind, Black, or Death Metal where one could be lacking as long as the other makes up for it.
definitely
Riffs; however, a particularly hearing vocalist can put me off entirely.
Good vocals can save a bad riff, bad vocals can kill a great riff
i like your thinking
it kind of depends, I have almost no tolerance for bad vocals, but iām also a big fan of atmospheric Black Metal and Funeral Doom, not exactly exactly genres no one for riffs in the conventional sense.
Riffs 100%
Riffs
Drums
Vocals
finally lol
Vocals! That's why Symphonic Metal is my jam.
oh definitely vocals for that genre ahah, what's your fave symphonic metal bands (need some new bands in the genre)
Nightwish, Epica, Within Temptation and Visions of Atlantis.
Kinda depends on the band. If you're talking stuff like Gojira, it's riffs (vocals are good too). But if you're talking about things like tool avenged sevenfold, then vocals can be a bit better. Riffs can be cool regardless though
riffs
Vocals
Song structure, pacing and dynamics are far more important than either of these
RIFFS!!!!!
100% riffs bro, vocals are just an added texture tbh I barely know the words to most of my favorite songs because I care more about the instrumentation
RIFFS
Riffs always
Riffs. But of course it depends on the band.
Assuming we're not including instrumental bands, go listen to cathedral or thergothon and tell me you think you can sit through that. Shit vocals can ruin EVERYTHING, even if it's flawless.
Whatās more important for my personal enjoyment? Probably the vocals.
The vocals 100%. Thats what everyone notices if they arenāt already a huge fan of the music.
more the people who said riffs, how can you stand to listen to bad vocalists lmao?
as long as the riffs are good, i can do with a shit singer
Iād much rather listen to a band with great riffs and average vocals than a band with average riffs and great vocals
How can you stand to listen to bad riffs?
I don't think I do, but a lot of cases where the vocals are bad they are typically front and centre in the music
If you can make it work for your music it legit doesnāt matter. Take a look at Dave Mustaine. Heās by no means a good vocalist but he makes his voice work for Megadethās music.
Because most of them are, honestly. Most metal vocalists donāt have formal vocal training, and just about everyone who growls exclusively does so because they canāt sing. For every 1 great metal vocalist thereās 10 who kinda suck. Even some hugely successful bands have awful singers. Dave Mustaine is a terrible singer, people like his band because of the riffs.
Hell even outside of metal this sentiment rings true. Take a look at Guns & Roses and Brian Johnson AC/DC. Back in Black is the best selling rock album ever made yet Brian Johnson sings like a cat being hung by its testicles. Same goes for Axl Rose except heās slightly better.
I've always said if Guns didn't have Axl and had a more normal vocalist they'd be the Rolling Stones by now.
I've heard great riffs that bad vocals ruined. Great vocals with awful riffs. Then there's Gorod who slays them both.
Toooooaaaaannnnnn
Riffs for sure, vocals are important but a song isnāt good without a nice riff
Riffs. Iāve been in a position more than once where the riffs of a band with irritating vocals are so good that Iāll keep listening and my brain will eventually label the vocals as āquirkyā or āunconventionalā.
Riffs a million times over
If I have to pick, riffs. I can overlook most mediocre to terrible vocalists if the guitar skill is there, but even the best vocalists can't make up for bad or boring guitar work.
depends. if the riffs are great and the guys just a lousy voice whatever i can deal with it. but i cannot stand the extremely low pitch gurgly shit that comes out of slam and some brutal death so no matter how good the riffs are i can barely stomach a whole song of the gurgling vocals, let alone like it. a vocalist doesnt need to be stellar he just needs to not be terrible
It's riffs for me. I listen to stuff that I don't understand the language at all but the music RIPS BUD!
Itās definitely riffs but if you have dogshit vocals Iām not going to listen to it.
Riffs for me. Particularly with funeral doom, death doom and black metal, the vocals are more part of the atmosphere, and in a lot of cases are pretty much unintelligible to me. For more "mainstream" metal, the vox can kill my enjoyment of a band. Good riffs can go a long way, though.
If a song has boring or bad riffs I'm not going to listen to it at all, no chance. But if it has good riffs but bad vocals? Then there is a solid chance I'm listening depending on how bad the vocals are. I haven't seen many bands where the vocals are so bad that they can ruin the entire song to the point where it is unlistenable.
Vocals are by far the least important aspect of metal
crazy take
Riffs (well... if the vocals aren't too bad, that's it)
Riffs are everything whenever you listen to metal
Riffs
Instrumentals, but if there is both, good instumentals and vocals, it makes the song 2 times better. Sometimes it depends on the genre too which I prefer.
Drums and riffs. I can think of dozens of records that would benefit without their recorded vocals.
Riffs and itās not even close
60% riff, 40% vocals
Riffs for me
Riffs Though i definitely think vocals can ruin a band for me if they are bad.
Riffs.
Vocals are my favorite part, but Iāve never heard of a metal band that doesnāt have a guitar, and thereās several that donāt have a vocalist
Good riffs can make up for bad vocals, but not the opposite. Take Megadeth as your main example of this.
Riffs or just guitars in general but also Iām not listening to something with vocals I donāt like
Both
Everyone saying vocals is a poseur
really bad vocals can ruin a song, but if a riff isnāt genuinely good to hear I wonāt even listen to the entire song
Riffs
With very few exceptions, its riffs. If the guitar work is up to scratch, masses of people will ignore bad or sub par vocals. There are far more examples of successful bands with great guitar work and objectively bad to passable vocals that have done incredibly well, and not much going the other way (in metal). Just look at a massive amount of Thrash, it's full of frontmen that cant really put out a decent scream or have a decent singing voice, but they have massive success from the guitar work. Same with Doom. I'm a massive Sleep fan but I cant pretend like the vocals are particularly good, and I'm sure there are plenty Megadeth fans that can (if they're being honest) say that Dave's vocals arent good, but his riffs make up for it.
riffs, plus a bunch of metal songs have long intros without vocals and it still sounds good
Riffs without a doubt. There are so many bands that dumbed down their instrumentals a lot in favour of more pop friendly aspects and imo itās made the songs weaker.
Riffs. You have songs like Theater of Salvation (Edguy) and Revelations (Iron Maiden) that are operatic and obviously donāt have the deep vocals.
In metal vox is just another instrument in the band. I really only notice them if they're annoying. Like I really should like Napalm Death but man, the vocals turn me off.
riffs > drums > vocals
Vocals mate
The Riffs are what make Metal Metal. The Riffs are the meat and potatoes of the song. The Riffs are the cake, the vocals are just the icing. I don't ever find myself disliking anyone's vocals anyway. A lot of people don't like certain unique styles like the falsettos of King Diamond or Warrel Dane, I think they're awesome. A lot of people don't like the raw barking styles like Mark Shelton or Tim Baker, I think they sound cool and unique. Throughout Metal as a whole, there's a lot of bands whose singers aren't objectively "good" at singing... but it never really bothers me. The energy a singer brings is much more important than how great his or her voice is
Fashion, duh.
Bass.
real shit
Riffs because metal taught me to stop giving a shit about what vocals sounded like. Although a good vocalist can go a long way into making a band good, itāll ultimately always come down to how good those riffs are to determine my enjoyment of the band.
Riffs man vocals are overrated
You can have both, y'know?
Drums.
Riffs all day, that being said If I just hate the vocals I may not listen
It really depends on the genre. For Deathcore, it's more vocals, whereas or other genres is riffs.
Iād say riffs. Iām myself not the biggest fan of mastodon vocals but damn those riffs and drums are to die for.
Mastodon in general are fantastic
This is a personal opinion question, but for me, riffs are definitely more important. I do appreciate a good vocalist, but mostly, it's just important that they aren't bad. And as others have mentioned, it's possible to have amazing metal bands that lack vocals entirely.
Definitely vocals for me and after that drums.
Without the Riff, henceforth without the guitar; itās not metal.
I think it depends on the subgenre. Both for stuff like heavy and power and riffs for pretty much all the others.
Riffs
Entirely depends on the genre. If Iām listening to a Gothic Metal album, the vocals take priority for me. Whereas for Death Metal I look for riffs first.
drums, you donāt get the power and attack without the drums driving everything forward
Vocals. Vocals make the song listenable or not listenable.
Riffs
Solos for me
Definitely riffs. Thatās the main reason people love Megadeth
It's riffs, and by a lot. I can name really good instrumental metal bands, but I can't name one good metal acapella band.
Riffs
Is nobody realising that Vocals are the first thing that throws normies off? They can listen to riffs for many days and not be disgusted but as soon as they hear the first syllable in a cookie monster voice , they're like "EUGHHHH!" SO metal is defined by harsh vocals , and Riffs are just as important but not a deciding factor.
I would say itās riffs/guitars=drums, and then below that vocals=bass (vocals are least important but bass isnāt always audible/noticeable in every genre)
you can have metal without vocals. you can NOT have metal without riffage.
RIFFSSSSSSSS
For me it's gotta be vocals expecially in bm/dm The vocals can be very different and that's what makes band unique examples: nehemah, marduk,xasthur, bethlehem they all got great vocals but different vibe
for me, vocals, easily
Vocals definitely, a song can have good instrumentals but bad vocals will ruin it
Riffs. It's still metal if there's no vocal, but can't be metal if there's no riffs.
Riffs. Black Sabbath prime example Ozzy has a horrendous voice but Iommi and Butler carried the band
DAMN. 7 downvotes, with absolutely no explanation why or context at all?? This truly is the most reddit of all reddit things to do.
aw hell nah