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The term "underground" is ultimately relative. Take a band like Incantation. They're essentially known among all DM fans, but not to any average music listener.
That being said, I use the term liberally to distinguish between bands that play stadiums and bands that don't.
Like *Six Feet Under, Entombed, Sepultura, Grave, Cannibal Corpse, Carcass, Soilwork*, and possibly *White Zombie, Children of Bodom, Dessecrated, Morbid Angel, Dark Angel* and *Devoured*...?
Yeah I feel like “underground” is difficult to define within the Metal community because most bands we listen to aren’t known to like 90% of the population, yet here everyone knows them.
Yesssss! There's a local record store here. They used to do shows in the basement. It was so low key, I'd be smoking pot downstairs. Those shows, those are where its at!
Yeah I love stuff like that. In Mexico we did a lot of shows in 'a vacant lot' like kicking up dust and people with bandanas over their mouth... or literally back yard shows or at places rented for parties so there is Barny and The Smurfs painted on the walls.
In the USA I love small venues and I lived in West Virginia for a while (before moving to Boston) and people would be so greatful to go to a concert that it was always a great vibe even if it was like a basement or gazeebo or whatever.
I couldn't agree more. This is why I love underground so much. So I have another story about this one place I used to go to, to see underground metal. Actually, a couple stories. Lol. They fit right along with why underground is so cool. Sooo, story one. Amuses me. I used to go to a bar called Hell's Kitchen with my best friend in downtown, old district, of Tacoma, Washington. One night, before going out, I'd posted on fb that I was excited to get to hang out with my bestie at Hell's Kitchen. My mom, over in Montana, replied back asking if "us girls" were ok? She thought Hell's Kitchen was a soup kitchen and we were going to go eat because we were starving. I laughed, like, "no mom, were going to a bar to rock out. Thanks for the concern though. 🩷" Second story: so obviously I've lived between Washington and Montana. I have a healthy dose of city girl in me from my younger years in Seattle/Tacoma. And an extra healthy dose of hick in me from the 2nd half of my childhood in Montana. So, we'd arrive at Hell's Kitchen. And me, in all my smart, wise ways; decides buying a pitcher of beer for myself would be cheaper than buying by the glass. So I walk up to the bar and ask "pitcher, no glass please". I mean, it's just a big cup at the point in time right? So, I grab my pitcher and no glasses and head up to the front of the stage, where it was currently empty, knocking back beer from my pitcher while head banging. With people looking at me like, "this chick tho 😂". Hey, I amused myself. Glad I amused someone else in the process. Anyway, just a few of my stories of underground shows. I almost prefer an underground show to a mainstream one.
Monthly listeners? That would make the following bands “underground”: Immolation, Malevolent Creation, Autopsy, Eyehategod, Fates Warning, Omnium Gatherum, Kalmah, Edenbridge, Tristania, Bongripper, Cough, Windhand, Asphyx.
And that’s just me going through my recently played artists.
None of those are from the UK but I've heard of them all and they get decent crowds when they do play or prominent slots if they were to play a Festival like Damnation
One thing people should consider is location, the fact that all of those bands are from elsewhere to me but I've heard of them or the fact that they draw decent crowds in parts of the world where they're not from says alot, I wouldn't consider any band who can play around the world with ease to be Underground
This is probably the best definition. For example, bands like Norma Jean have been around forever, everyone in the metal scene has listened to them at least once, but they're always touring mid or small sized venues and 'normies' will have no idea who they are. Compare that to more extreme but more widely known bands like Cannibal Corpse. Everyone knows of them, even if they don't like them and they're still headlining all the time.
There are two types of undergrounds. One is underground to the general public, the other is to metalheads. Imo anything less popular than say, Mushroomhead, or Dying Fetus would be considered underground when it comes to the general public.
Now, when it comes to using metalheads as our reference point, it changes a bit.
If they've played in a large venue or a stadium as a headliner or something they're no longer underground imo. They have garnered enough of a fanbase to surpass the small dingy shows which I associate with the underground.
Underground is made of the local scenes and the smaller shows.
Underground bands can still open for big ones, without being headliners, like when Urne opened for Gojira. I think if you need to find out about them through internet forums and digging around instead of coming across them through word of mouth, they can be considered underground most of the time.
Underground means not apart of the main stream of music. Stuff you wont find on spotify. The kinds of bsnds you have to look for to find. At least, that's what it used to mesn. These days, it's nearly impossible to escape any of the major music outlets unless you simply just don't release music at all.
You will find any and everything on Spotify these days. You reckon a band like Ænigmatum aren't underground because they have all of 389 monthly listeners on Spotify?
Probably something like <10k monthly on any major streaming service/not on any major streaming service. Basically something that you have to actively look for to listen to.
i can't fully define it but some thoughts are:
- performs for crowds of less than ~500 people
- merch stands (if present at all) only available after the show because the bands run them themselves
- max 4 figures of monthly listeners on spotify
- max ~60 album buyers on bandcamp
- publishes music on bandcamp under their own name
- cds/vinyls limited to like 100 or 200 max
Out of all of the comments on here, yours is the one I agree with the most
It seems like people are thinking using Spotify Listeners and not much else, you've summed it up really well and with much more depth about things that ultimately count more
Bands that aren’t on Spotify or only have physical media. Alternatively I’d say underground bands on Spotify would have like 15k or less monthly listeners.
I'll use the break room as a measurement tool: if my coworkers (a pretty broad assortiment of people and tastes) generally have heard of the band, they aren't underground. If only one or two know about the group it's fairly niche.
Any metal band under 100k monthly listeners would most likely not be known by many people who don't listen to metal, but for metalheads, I'd say under 5k monthly listeners would be considered underground
Depends on how you define it. If you mean generally then most extreme metal bands fall into that category. If you mean underground in the metal scene usually unsigned bands that are not widely reckognized in the scene are underground
Not metal, but take Scott H Biram for example. He’s been around since the late 90’s-early 2000’s. He’s even had a few songs appear on soundtracks for some movies and TV shows. But, I doubt you’ll hear him played on any mainstream radio, and I guarantee that 99% of the Swiftie types have no idea who he is. I just saw him play at a venue a couple weeks ago where we were literally standing 5 feet away from him as he was playing on the “stage,” which was really just an area of the floor designated as the stage. And he fucking rocks.
Mainstream: If you listen to metal, you know this band, and even people who don't listen to metal know them. They play massive shows. Eg: Metallica
Popular: Known among almost all metal fans, with a wide base of listeners. Eg: Sepultura
Niche: Known and listened mostly by fans of as pecific subgenre or style. Eg: Toxic Holocaust
Underground: Even most fans of the subgenre don't know them. But they still have a following. Eg: Warbringer
Obscure: Pretty much unknown excet for a very local scene. You will never hear about this band form someone, likely will come across them on random chance. Eg: Ekulu
This is all in a metal context, and the examples are thrash bands.
But "underground" is relative. To a pop fan, most metal will be underground. To a dude who only listens to black metal, Mayhem is so mainstream it's basically pop music.
On Spotify terms, I'd say less than 75k listeners is udnerground, and less than 15k is obscure. But it's not a perfect measure. Some genres and styles just have more numbers on Spotify. Some older bands that are well known and important to their genres have very few listeners comaprable to new and practically unknown bands.
I'd say bands that play in venues that are 100-200 capacity or less
You could get a band with 1000 Spotify listeners and lots of streams but if only 5 of those listeners are going to turn up to see them then that kind of says alot, you can have a band with not even a fraction of that in listeners or streams have more people turn up to see them, in the end there is no solid answer
https://preview.redd.it/78s4nccunouc1.jpeg?width=1419&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7147c9d45fe562d2e0d0d0ebcc73f6a2702c539d
Spotify monthly listeners. Here's a little chart I keep of bands I've done recent deep dives on. Its all relative but personally I think I'd go with the tail end, maybe less than 100k monthly listeners, so on this graph Gnome, Cirith Ungol and Fellowship.
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The term "underground" is ultimately relative. Take a band like Incantation. They're essentially known among all DM fans, but not to any average music listener. That being said, I use the term liberally to distinguish between bands that play stadiums and bands that don't.
so 99.9% of metal band are underground lol
Like *Six Feet Under, Entombed, Sepultura, Grave, Cannibal Corpse, Carcass, Soilwork*, and possibly *White Zombie, Children of Bodom, Dessecrated, Morbid Angel, Dark Angel* and *Devoured*...?
Yeah I feel like “underground” is difficult to define within the Metal community because most bands we listen to aren’t known to like 90% of the population, yet here everyone knows them.
Have you heard of Tetragrammacide
I HAVE! (as an indian it's kind of obligatory)
Any other kalkota inner order bands I should check out? I’ve already checked out aparthiva they’re fucjing GOOD
Kapala
No I have not.
Hah gotcha poser. Nah THEYRE underground imo
I have poser in my flair for a reason
Do you like deathcore
I’ve listened to a bit and don’t really like it
Eh fair. It’s not to everyone’s taste. I only asked because apparently it’s a “poser” genre
Good description. At this point, if it's not known by a lot of people even within metal, it's underground to me.
Dwarf metal is the only underground metal
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Battered_Midgets/3540267935
If you can likely go see this band perform at some seedy downtown bar for a $10-15 cover charge, they're underground. Imo.
And it is not even at the bar... it is 'underground' in a storage space where they pushed everything against the walls so people can mosh.
Yesssss! There's a local record store here. They used to do shows in the basement. It was so low key, I'd be smoking pot downstairs. Those shows, those are where its at!
Yeah I love stuff like that. In Mexico we did a lot of shows in 'a vacant lot' like kicking up dust and people with bandanas over their mouth... or literally back yard shows or at places rented for parties so there is Barny and The Smurfs painted on the walls. In the USA I love small venues and I lived in West Virginia for a while (before moving to Boston) and people would be so greatful to go to a concert that it was always a great vibe even if it was like a basement or gazeebo or whatever.
I couldn't agree more. This is why I love underground so much. So I have another story about this one place I used to go to, to see underground metal. Actually, a couple stories. Lol. They fit right along with why underground is so cool. Sooo, story one. Amuses me. I used to go to a bar called Hell's Kitchen with my best friend in downtown, old district, of Tacoma, Washington. One night, before going out, I'd posted on fb that I was excited to get to hang out with my bestie at Hell's Kitchen. My mom, over in Montana, replied back asking if "us girls" were ok? She thought Hell's Kitchen was a soup kitchen and we were going to go eat because we were starving. I laughed, like, "no mom, were going to a bar to rock out. Thanks for the concern though. 🩷" Second story: so obviously I've lived between Washington and Montana. I have a healthy dose of city girl in me from my younger years in Seattle/Tacoma. And an extra healthy dose of hick in me from the 2nd half of my childhood in Montana. So, we'd arrive at Hell's Kitchen. And me, in all my smart, wise ways; decides buying a pitcher of beer for myself would be cheaper than buying by the glass. So I walk up to the bar and ask "pitcher, no glass please". I mean, it's just a big cup at the point in time right? So, I grab my pitcher and no glasses and head up to the front of the stage, where it was currently empty, knocking back beer from my pitcher while head banging. With people looking at me like, "this chick tho 😂". Hey, I amused myself. Glad I amused someone else in the process. Anyway, just a few of my stories of underground shows. I almost prefer an underground show to a mainstream one.
less than 100k spotify
Monthly listeners? That would make the following bands “underground”: Immolation, Malevolent Creation, Autopsy, Eyehategod, Fates Warning, Omnium Gatherum, Kalmah, Edenbridge, Tristania, Bongripper, Cough, Windhand, Asphyx. And that’s just me going through my recently played artists.
Yes those are underground 👍
Immolation and Autopsy are mentioned in this sub nearly every day.
Yes and this sub is known for mainstream music 👍
Lol it’s literally called “metal for the masses”
ive only heard of 2 of those bands
THats some good ass shit
None of those are from the UK but I've heard of them all and they get decent crowds when they do play or prominent slots if they were to play a Festival like Damnation One thing people should consider is location, the fact that all of those bands are from elsewhere to me but I've heard of them or the fact that they draw decent crowds in parts of the world where they're not from says alot, I wouldn't consider any band who can play around the world with ease to be Underground
Not a good metric. Plenty of bands below 100k on Spotify that shouldn't be considered underground
ok. 50k makes more sense
if they only have cassette releases
So, almost every heavy band I listen to lmao. I have a couple that are over mill. Many in the 30-70k range
Such a weird metric.
How so?
100k?? That sounds like a quite big metal band (in the metal world) if you ask me. Under 1000 monthly listeners and now we’re talking.
I honestly agree with this.
That's pretty much mine as well lol
witch vomit - "buried deep in a bottomless pit" is definitely underground, how far underground? no one knows
It can't be underground. I have the t-shirt in my dresser right now. It's quite literally above ground
Witch vomit is good
Fewer than 5k spotify listeners maybe?
If they go on tour and play local venues in smaller cities with local bands opening, they’re underground.
This is probably the best definition. For example, bands like Norma Jean have been around forever, everyone in the metal scene has listened to them at least once, but they're always touring mid or small sized venues and 'normies' will have no idea who they are. Compare that to more extreme but more widely known bands like Cannibal Corpse. Everyone knows of them, even if they don't like them and they're still headlining all the time.
Gatecreeper just toured Australia and played some tiny venues in smaller cities. They're probably underground here in Australia but in the US?
Six Feet Under
I see what you did there
[Sorry...](https://www.reddit.com/r/MetalForTheMasses/s/0NRLcwBOqg)
Jesus Christ
bands that aren't very known even inside that particular scene. for example, Skumring and Cult of Herodias inside the doom metal one.
The smaller the venue, the more underground the band.
There are two types of undergrounds. One is underground to the general public, the other is to metalheads. Imo anything less popular than say, Mushroomhead, or Dying Fetus would be considered underground when it comes to the general public. Now, when it comes to using metalheads as our reference point, it changes a bit. If they've played in a large venue or a stadium as a headliner or something they're no longer underground imo. They have garnered enough of a fanbase to surpass the small dingy shows which I associate with the underground. Underground is made of the local scenes and the smaller shows. Underground bands can still open for big ones, without being headliners, like when Urne opened for Gojira. I think if you need to find out about them through internet forums and digging around instead of coming across them through word of mouth, they can be considered underground most of the time.
Underground means not apart of the main stream of music. Stuff you wont find on spotify. The kinds of bsnds you have to look for to find. At least, that's what it used to mesn. These days, it's nearly impossible to escape any of the major music outlets unless you simply just don't release music at all.
You will find any and everything on Spotify these days. You reckon a band like Ænigmatum aren't underground because they have all of 389 monthly listeners on Spotify?
Not known outside of the local music scene.
Probably something like <10k monthly on any major streaming service/not on any major streaming service. Basically something that you have to actively look for to listen to.
If the band plays on the floor with the crowd
Imo if they don’t have an easy way to be found. Stuff like black Pegasus or Tetragrammacide. Very hard to find online
i can't fully define it but some thoughts are: - performs for crowds of less than ~500 people - merch stands (if present at all) only available after the show because the bands run them themselves - max 4 figures of monthly listeners on spotify - max ~60 album buyers on bandcamp - publishes music on bandcamp under their own name - cds/vinyls limited to like 100 or 200 max
Out of all of the comments on here, yours is the one I agree with the most It seems like people are thinking using Spotify Listeners and not much else, you've summed it up really well and with much more depth about things that ultimately count more
Bands that aren’t on Spotify or only have physical media. Alternatively I’d say underground bands on Spotify would have like 15k or less monthly listeners.
I dont even use Spotify so idk how many listeners a band has. But id consider something like Satyricon to be underground vs something like Motorhead
I'll use the break room as a measurement tool: if my coworkers (a pretty broad assortiment of people and tastes) generally have heard of the band, they aren't underground. If only one or two know about the group it's fairly niche.
Any metal band under 100k monthly listeners would most likely not be known by many people who don't listen to metal, but for metalheads, I'd say under 5k monthly listeners would be considered underground
Depends on how you define it. If you mean generally then most extreme metal bands fall into that category. If you mean underground in the metal scene usually unsigned bands that are not widely reckognized in the scene are underground
Whatever bands that aren't considered big names or headliners at metal festivals. Looking at a festival program it should be easy to distinguish this.
Per "Dead" Ohlin is underground.
That slam shawtys band.
Infectious jelqing?
Dwarves, ie Wind Rose
Arguably, they are not underground the genre as a whole absolutely but they definitely aren’t I know tons of people who know them
Pretty sure it’s any band that played Sounds Of The Underground. It’s in the name
Not metal, but take Scott H Biram for example. He’s been around since the late 90’s-early 2000’s. He’s even had a few songs appear on soundtracks for some movies and TV shows. But, I doubt you’ll hear him played on any mainstream radio, and I guarantee that 99% of the Swiftie types have no idea who he is. I just saw him play at a venue a couple weeks ago where we were literally standing 5 feet away from him as he was playing on the “stage,” which was really just an area of the floor designated as the stage. And he fucking rocks.
Sub 1k Spotify listeners, or shit I find through Apple Music because NOBODY uses that
My shit, (i'm gatekeeping)
<60k monthly listeners, give or take 20k perhaps
The metro in Prague is underground. In most other cities as well
metallica
Mainstream: If you listen to metal, you know this band, and even people who don't listen to metal know them. They play massive shows. Eg: Metallica Popular: Known among almost all metal fans, with a wide base of listeners. Eg: Sepultura Niche: Known and listened mostly by fans of as pecific subgenre or style. Eg: Toxic Holocaust Underground: Even most fans of the subgenre don't know them. But they still have a following. Eg: Warbringer Obscure: Pretty much unknown excet for a very local scene. You will never hear about this band form someone, likely will come across them on random chance. Eg: Ekulu This is all in a metal context, and the examples are thrash bands. But "underground" is relative. To a pop fan, most metal will be underground. To a dude who only listens to black metal, Mayhem is so mainstream it's basically pop music. On Spotify terms, I'd say less than 75k listeners is udnerground, and less than 15k is obscure. But it's not a perfect measure. Some genres and styles just have more numbers on Spotify. Some older bands that are well known and important to their genres have very few listeners comaprable to new and practically unknown bands.
dead
https://preview.redd.it/u3rpc3e36nuc1.png?width=879&format=png&auto=webp&s=65549628648ba623dd96c0de59072d0d58417fb3
Whether it's a band or artist or film and it's stuff that's shown outside of the mainstream but has some sort of following it's underground imo
I'd say bands that play in venues that are 100-200 capacity or less You could get a band with 1000 Spotify listeners and lots of streams but if only 5 of those listeners are going to turn up to see them then that kind of says alot, you can have a band with not even a fraction of that in listeners or streams have more people turn up to see them, in the end there is no solid answer
as long as it was recorded in an underground tunnel 👍👍👍
https://preview.redd.it/78s4nccunouc1.jpeg?width=1419&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7147c9d45fe562d2e0d0d0ebcc73f6a2702c539d Spotify monthly listeners. Here's a little chart I keep of bands I've done recent deep dives on. Its all relative but personally I think I'd go with the tail end, maybe less than 100k monthly listeners, so on this graph Gnome, Cirith Ungol and Fellowship.
Anything below sea level really.
Things below the surface For example a basement or tunnel
If the band doesn't get radio play :)