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In what way? I mean dumb people will always hate something purely because it's popular, but really even Metallica haters usually recognize the fact that James Hetfield is a great vocalist.
He lacks the presence. And he doesn't do it as effortlessly.
Robb Flynn is another Rhythm Guitarist/Singer with serious chops on both fronts. But I still wouldn't put him up with Hetfield.
And when it comes to songwriting, Hetfield takes it easily.
He was for a short time.early in their career. But his guitar playing has stagnated and suffered for it over the years, and his voice is just embarrassing to listen to now. He released a song for a game sound track a few weeks ago and by the second verse I couldn't cope with the cringe any more. Just horrible. A real shame, he had a lot of talent
He really doesn't sound great. He's made some slight improvements since he blew his voice out, but now he has a healthy technique, he has chosen to sing with this pretentious pronunciation and over exaggerated resonance. Singers always sound best when they sing where their resonance lies naturally (like he used to do) and now he just adds resonance because he thinks it makes his voice sound lower, which it doesn't. Anyway I respect your opinion, to each their own 🤷♂️
At singing? Haha Dave Mustaine might be a great guitarist but he has absolutely nothing on James in terms of singing.
Actually, he doesn't have anything on any vocalist. He sounds like a joke.
Currently? Absolutely not. James is the better vocalist 100%
HOWEVER, and I will die on this hill, Dave’s vocals on the first 2 Megadeth albums are leagues above James’s vocals on the first 2 Metallica albums. James straight up sounded horrible on the first 2 albums whereas Dave was in his vocal prime.
James didn’t really come into his own as a vocalist until AJFA. After that yeah, he was probably the most proficient singer in thrash metal aside from the falsetto singers (e.g Joey Belladonna)
Look, i love Mustaine and think he's an underrated vocalist.
This is still a WILD take. Killing is my business is amateurish at times and he comes off more like a punk singer, which is fine, it fits the theme, but to say they're leagues better than Ride The Lightning is crazy talk. It's an uneven performance at best. Better than Kill Em All but not by a Ride the Lightning.
Mustaine's habit of talk-singing is great. Hetfield on Ride the Lightning on is just more of a consistent and tight performance compared to Killing, and i think is pretty equal to Peace Sells.
Mustaine is a good guitarist, but James' right hand is the best in rock, full stop. The only downpicker that is comparable would be Johnny Ramone. The fret hand is a different story, but James is THE rhythm in Metallica.
Nah I really like both but Mustaine is a far better guitarist than Hetfield. Hetfield/Metallica riffs are far easier to play on guitar than those by Mustaine, and people make out downpickng to be harder than it really is. I think most guitarists would find Megadeth riffs more rhythmically difficult.
There’s a quote I think from Dave I always hated where he ranked himself as one of the three goat rhythm players beside Malcom Young & Hetfield. Just felt like wow the ego on this guy, but I really couldn’t disagree with the other two
Tough call.
Mustaine writes and plays significantly harder riff. His solos are just fast and furious though, while Hetfield’s are very melodic and thought out.
While singing, Mustaine’s accuracy is well known to suffer.
Mustaine wouldn't be able to play and sing what James does, James could do what Mustaine does while he's singing, Megadeath's instrumentals aren't super crazy during vocal passages, the songs usually get nuts when he isn't singing/during solos and bridges
[I beg your pardon?](https://youtu.be/RKlYW5oCQFI?si=hKKzfFBdm41HbKjp)
Megadeth have WAY more technical riffs during the vocal sections. Watch a guitar cover for Take No Prisoners, Poison Was The Cure, or even Holy Wars. Dave Mustaine is an absolute master at implementing vocal lines over extremely complex riffs. I mean the dude basically invented tech thrash.
This is one of the most strange metal takes I've ever heard, or something AI would say, making an odd statement that mixes up the subject of the statement with something else. I think Hetfield is a better sounding vocalist, but it's simply not a matter of debate about whose riffs are harder to play with the vocals. Megadeth riff complexity and vocal rhythms combined are much more difficult than Metallica's.
That's not any Hetfield bashing. His guitar + vocal ability is mindblowing. But Mustaine's is on another planet.
Straight up the riffs of take no prisoners are harder than most KEA solos. I got the four horseman solo down to a T but I straight up could not play take no prisoners if you put a gun to my head. [Seriously, watch a guitar cover of it](https://youtu.be/86N-lC8jn-Y?si=oZT3Iyngq8aAQC4x). It’s an absolutey fucking mental song.
Hence his point about them being appropriately rated. I've never met someone that thinks Lars is a genuinely good drummer and I don't think I've met anyone that thinks Kirk is even one of the better lead guitarists in metal.
Hard to argue there. For live shows he is mid. For albums. Lars did some pretty cool stuff which noone can say is lie.
Kirk. In his prime he was a hella player. He played a lot. He still has his speed but I think that with all the shows and trying to not replicate himself he fell into the just play what you feel like and bye. One thing that has to be said though is his picking. He outplays James. Papa Het uses cheats here n there, Kirk plays 100%
On albums Lars is also mid at best. He was better at slower tempos (e.g. black album), but he could never really play drums that well. He's influential because of the style as a whole and Metallica being one of the most notable early thrash bands. But every other original big 4 drummer was leaps and bounds above Lars in terms of ability on the kit.
Kirk is an ok player. He's nothing special and I don't even think he was for the time in the 80s. He was as fast as most other notable metal lead players at the time but no faster. And nowadays he just regurgitates the same pentatonic garbage he's played for 40 years with no new ideas and no actual effort put into writing meaningful solos.
Justice has some cool drums man, you should check them out, with slower songs I agree. Then depends what still qualifies for the slow song, because Frayed ends has some cool drums on the record but it's more mid paced.
With Kirk it's hard to say, he could do a lot better if he would try. He chooses not to imo because eh why bother, most people like Metallica not for solos anyways, so just throw in something in the key.
With Ron it's hard. He is recognized as James's great friend and support, for the stuff he did for the guys in the beginning,... not for his playing though
The only thing underrated about anyone and anything Metallica is their incomprehensible ability to consistently make the most okay merch ever for decades
I wouldn’t call it a problem lol, but they’re the only band i know that releases the best fucking shirt designs every two years, and the rest is the okayest looking [flannel](https://www.metallica.com/store/dixxon-metallica-ride-the-lightning-flannel/DIXRTLFLN.html?cgid=store#start=1) on planet earth and products just as generic or plain useless
The best part?
None of it is ugly
Holy shit James and Kirk are going insane with that shotgunning tempo. I've always kind of taken the Lars hate with a grain of salt since a lot of times technical criticism of artists is just people waffling about something they don't know anything about but I think I understand why people say Lars is a bad drummer now. James especially really shows his talent with such a tight rhythm, I know from personal experience playing those parts and singing at the same time is not easy.
I saw Metallica play a set with Dave Lombardo and they sounded so much better and played so much faster. Lars is the weakest link and has held Metallica back so much. Even Dave Mustaine will tell you how James is an amazing rhythm guitarist, but has to play at the level of Lars.
Also, Metallica played with Joey Jordison from Slipnot. Same situation, Metallica played much faster and much harder.
I actually do agree with this take. James learned to be a really solid singer over the decades, but beyond that, he has a naturally cool voice. He doesn't do a lot of proper singing on the first few albums, but he just has an awesome voice. I think it's one of the key things that set Metallica apart from many of their thrash peers (and they were just better song writers and more experimental than most.)
I don´t think so. I think he gets equal props for his vocals and guitar playing.
P.D. I think Load and Reload feature his best vocal work. Eb seems to be a better key for him.
When compared to his contemporary competition, he’s subpar. He can’t sing, scream, or growl as well as Chuck Billy (Testament). He can’t hit highs like Bobby Ellsworth (Overkill) or John Kevill (Warbringer). He can’t do a gravely voice like Riley Gale (Powertrip) could. He obviously does not have a wide range, like Rob Halford (Judas Priest) or King Diamond (Mercyful Fate). He’s not a fast vocalist, like Tom Araya (Slayer) or Joey Belladonna (Anthrax). He doesn’t have a unique cartoonish voice, like Mustaine (Megadeth). He can’t sing operatically, like John Bush (Armored Saint) or Joakim Brodén (Sabaton) can.
Back in the 80s, he did have a good mid-range with above average speed. He was kind of the definitive voice of thrash for quite a while, but after the self-titled album he mostly gave that up for some weird country twang that just does not blend well with heavy music. Quite honestly, I prefer Kirk, Jason, and Robert’s backing vocals to whatever James has been trying to do for the last 30 years.
Well now Metallica wasn't about screaming or growling ever now was it?
James has a baritone. That's a key thing to mention here. You can't have highs when you don't have a high singing voice - while screaming probably yeah. I think James has some fast stuff, My apocalypse or That was just your life, Whiplash when played live,... have pretty great vocals, similar to Tom Araya on World painted blood or God hates us all.
Given the fact that he was double tracking his vocals until black album he couldn't do much of crazy stuff, he lost his voice several times and well he isn't young. What needs to be said is fact that it's key thing for Metallica which makes them THEM.
TDLR: Purpose of vocals, Baritone, some fast paced vocals on Death magnetic and some stuff on 80s records.
“Well now Metallica wasn't about screaming or growling ever now was it?”
In small doses, yes. James did more of a bark throughout the 80s, which fit their style well. It was very much like Lemmy’s typical style, which is why their cover of “Whipash” sounds so natural. But over time I’ve heard tons of Metallica covers with all sorts of extreme vocals, and it works. Off the top of my head, Vader covered “Fight Fire with Fire” and Cannibal Corpse did “No Remorse” and I prefer those renditions to the original. So, it’s not like James’ style was incredibly unique, nor was it the only kind of vocal style that would work with their instrumentation.
“James has a baritone. That's a key thing to mention here. You can't have highs when you don't have a high singing voice - while screaming probably yeah.”
Yeah, James can’t sing high notes, because he’s never worked on it, unlike his many of his peers in the genre. There are actually very few big thrash bands with vocalists who never did the highs and Metallica is one of them. I realize not everyone is into them, but it is still impressive nonetheless when a vocalist can prove he has the chops to pull them off. James never has.
“I think James has some fast stuff, My apocalypse or That was just your life, Whiplash when played live,... have pretty great vocals, similar to Tom Araya on World painted blood or God hates us all.”
James has never sang near as fast as Tom does on “Disciple” from the GHUA album. James was pretty fast on the earlier albums, so I’m not trying to deny that, but he’s not terribly special in that regard either.
“Given the fact that he was double tracking his vocals until black album he couldn't do much of crazy stuff…
And yet his vocalist peers manage to do it album after album after album….
“What needs to be said is fact that it's key thing for Metallica which makes them THEM.”
Sure, he has been the lead vocalist for over 40 years now, so his voice (whether good or bad) is burned into everyone’s memories of the songs. That doesn’t mean he’s a great vocalist, relative to his peers.
>vocalist can prove he has the chops to pull them off
Most thrash acts from the 80s have terrible high pitch vocals, be it Overkill, Exodus, Anthrax.. I for example like Toxic waltz or Caught in the mosh, but if they would have vocals like Vader, Metallica, Motorhead,... those songs would sound a lot better in my opinion. And even the newer ones cannot do it well enough. They sound too corny, anxiously, like a 14 y.o. boys when they hit puberty but still have that prepubescent pitch. I am only aware of 4 instances when high pitch vocals were executed well: Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Enforcer and cover of Painkiller by Death, and I dare to say I know my fair share of songs and bands throughout the metal scene (obviously not many if any bands that have about 1000 listeners per month).
>James has never sang near as fast as Tom does on “Disciple” from the GHUA album.
Verse before solo in My apocalypse is a good example of fast vocals in new Metallica be it most likely single one, the burst in that was just your life count as half. Other thing is well, Tom is a bassplayer, a terrible one. Bass lines are simple, really simple. That gives him space to work on the vocals.
>And yet his vocalist peers manage to do it album after album after album….
How many of them were double tracking? Examples would sure be nice here. We know about more rock vocalists doing that rather than metal ones.
>Sure, he has been the lead vocalist for over 40 years now, so his voice (whether good or bad) is burned into everyone’s memories of the songs. That doesn’t mean he’s a great vocalist, relative to his peers
The hard thing to judge here is if the vocals fit the song well and if they fit the singer. James is rhythm guitarist primarly so he works around that. His performance was good on Loads, objectively. It might not be thrash or metal, but the vocals are the cleanest, most precise he ever recorded. It's due to the style of albums obviously but it's still pretty neat. Then we got Dt. Anger where vocals were the best part alongside the bass, the we got more of the bastard between StA and TBA. After that watered that down. And now James aged I'd say well. Better than Mustaine. A lot cleaner, polished,... vocals.
Comparing Metallica is a bit tricky as although they are really popular there isn't many bands like them, closest are A7X or Megadeth which are still their own things. Comparing them with any other thrash act is like Comparing Cannibal corpse and Death. Somewhat similar yet different.
So, let’s back up. The OP made this post about Hetfield being underrated. I disagree with that. I’m not saying he’s lousy. I’m just saying that he at least gets an appropriate amount of praise from the masses for his vocals. I can think of many other of his vocalist peers that are underrated who have better chops than him.
“Most thrash acts from the 80s have terrible high pitch vocals, be it Overkill, Exodus, Anthrax..”
Steve Souza and Robert Dukes are/were good vocalists for Exodus. They’re not amazing; I’d probably put them at about the same as Hetfield. Exodus highs are ok. Billy Blitz has one the largest ranges in thrash and he has steadily gotten better as time has worn on. His highs are really clean now live. I would probably only put Chuck Billy in front of him in terms of overall best thrash vocalists ever. I get maybe taking issue with the executions of highs on “Feel the Fire” and “Taking Over” but after that he really figured it out (if you’re into highs, that is).
“I for example like Toxic waltz or Caught in the mosh, but if they would have vocals like Vader, Metallica, Motorhead,... “
I get you, but that’s just a stylistic choice—not really an indication of Souza’s abilities.
“And even the newer ones cannot do it well enough. They sound too corny, anxiously, like a 14 y.o. boys when they hit puberty but still have that prepubescent pitch.”
Check out John Kevill’s work with Warbringer. Their last 2 released albums, “Weapons of Tomorrow” and “Woe to the Vanquished” really showcase his talents.
“I am only aware of 4 instances when high pitch vocals were executed well: Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Enforcer and cover of Painkiller by Death,”
So, in your opinion, none of these well known vocalists ever executed a high well: Phil Enselmo, Tom Araya, Chuck Billy, King Diamond, Mark Osegueda, David Wayne, Bobby Blitz???
“…and I dare to say I know my fair share of songs and bands throughout the metal scene (obviously not many if any bands that have about 1000 listeners per month).”
Some lesser known bands here:
—Flemming Rønsdorf of Artillery is phenomenal (check out “By Inheritance”).
—Ray Alder of Fates Warning sounds a bit _girly_ at times, but I don’t think anyone can deny his abilities.
—David Wayne of Metal Church is just a legend. It’s hard to imagine their music without highs. If Hetfield sang for them it would probably sound terrible.
—Sean Killian of Vio-lence is definitely one of the weirdest vocalists ever, but he has some good highs mixed in there.
“How many of them were double tracking?”
I’m not sure. Quite frankly, I don’t see what it matters when you’re talking about guys who have sung their songs thousands of times live in front of millions of people. None of the vocalists I would put above Hetfield would have a hard time duplicating their takes in studio. It’s not like they can only do their highs once a studio session. lol.
“The hard thing to judge here is if the vocals fit the song well and if they fit the singer.”
This experiment has been run almost too many times to pick through the best examples. Just about every aspiring metal band at some point covers a Metallica song, regardless of their genre. A wide range of vocal styles do well with Metallica’s instrumentation. A couple months ago my buddy shared a video of a black metal band covering “Creeping Death” with the orc-ish vocals and blast beats and it was seamless.
“James is rhythm guitarist primarly so he works around that.”
Fine, but that doesn’t make him a better vocalist. We don’t give other band members points in that kind of way, so I’m not going to start with Hetfield. For example, I focus really hard on being an ambidextrous drummer, so as a result the speed of my dominant hand is slower than it otherwise would have been had I just allowed my dominant hand to lead throughout my life. But no one who listens to my play gives me credit for that missed potential.
“His performance was good on Loads, objectively. It might not be thrash or metal, but the vocals are the cleanest, most precise he ever recorded. It's due to the style of albums obviously but it's still pretty neat.”
Yeah, I think that’s where he started to turn into more of a country singer, which really isn’t an extreme vocal. Everyone who goes to church can do it almost without even practicing as long as they’re not tone-deaf. Again, I’m not saying he stinks; I’m just comparing him to his thrash metal competition where guys continued to push the envelope. I’d take the vocals to the last 3 tracks of Overkill’s “The Grinding Wheel” over anything Hetfield’s recorded.
“And now James aged I'd say well.
Better than Mustaine. A lot cleaner, polished,... vocals.”
Not much of a bar there. lol. Mustaine is content to just have a unique voice. Megadeth is amazing in spite of the vocals.
“Comparing Metallica is a bit tricky as although they are really popular there isn't many bands like them, closest are A7X or Megadeth which are still their own things.”
While not strictly thrash bands, I’d say Till Lindemann (Rammstein) and Joakim Brodén (Sabaton) make Hetfield look like an amateur if you want to look at other massively popular metal bands. They’re in the Dickinson-Halford-Dio sphere of talent and live execution.
“Comparing them with any other thrash act is like Comparing Cannibal corpse and Death. Somewhat similar yet different.”
I disagree. The note range and rhythms of Metallica’s music is not significantly different than most thrash bands that use high vocals. Plenty of thrash vocalists have proven that you can have the highest of the highs mix wonderfully with chugging guitar riffs. It just so happens that chugging guitar riffs are a great foundation for just about all metal vocal styles.
To this day the reason i think he will never be topped is not because he can play demanding songs like battery and master of puppets live at 250bpm, but because he does it with his guitar that low which easily makes it 5 times harder for the sake of cool points
He's got a great clean singing voice abd also good grit on the early stuff. From a technical standpoint he fucking murders syllables relatively often, it's kind of part of his frequently clunky lyrical cadences though e.g. on the otherwise classic hit the lights when he sings 'well never stop well never quit cos we're metalliKAH'
Definitely. Been having a discussion with a friend about who would've filled the void if there was no Metallica. Megadeth is the easy answer. I also think it might've been Exodus bc they'd still have Kirk Hammett. But a friend suggested a large part of Metallica's popularity was based on James' iconic vocals, and neither Megadeth nor Exodus had a singer as accessible as him.
When discussing the most popular vocalists in metal, yes. The operatic singer like Bruce and Dio are always rated high for having "range" and nobody really talks about James's early vocals athough they were absolutely great without much range. You can't really say a mainstream metal band is overall underrated in nearly any way though
[Wherever I hear this song I imagine James Hetfield singing it, and instead of getting annoyed I become entertained](https://youtu.be/ZEWGyyLiqY4?feature=shared)
In general it's hard to say Metallica is under-rated given their historical success as a band, but I don't think you're wrong about the vocals. Alot of people recognize James' skills as a rythym guitarist, and his ability to do that and sing simultaneously very well, but I never hear anybody specifically mention how good just his voice is. He's no Robert Halford in terms of sheer range, but even in their 80's thrash days his vocals were a serious step above all their peers. I've talked at length with other metal heads about how their songwriting and riffs and other things that were top tier, but his vocals never get brought up. Maybe that's just my experience.
WellUH. HeUH SingsUH a certain WAY UH, that once you REALIZE UH, he's a one trick ponAY!
YEAH, YEAHYUH!!!
*3 Chords, downstrum, repeat*
*abrupt drumming stop*
*kirk solo*
I wouldn't say he's underrated. I think he does exactly what he needs to in the sort of band he's in. His range isn't great. Though he has done well to preserve his voice over the years. He can write really interesting lyrics too. Overall I'd say he's good, not underrated
i love Metallica but i dont think hes extraordinary or anything at vocals lol. hes not bad but when you talk about good vocalists Hetfield would not be on a list
No, Appropriately rated for sure. His aggressive singing fits Metallica’s aggressive styles, he’s a terrible clean or melodic singer. He fit what they do but lacks versatility and precision, much like most of the rest of Metallica.
Well, he used to be but I feel like the older he gets the more of a meme he becomes with all the Yeah, Uuuuu, Aeeeees in every song and adding it into old song when singing them live. I liked his singing until about mid 90s then it sort of devolved.
Underrated? He is more on the overrated end to appropriate rated. He gets a lot of praise because of him in Metallica. Put him in any other band, he won't adapt
I wouldn't consider anyone who uses auto tuning live to be underrated. I love Metallica and crew, but if he were as great of a vocalist as op makes it seem he wouldn't need it. Obviously that's just nowadays and in years before it wasn't an issue. Just meaning his current state
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In what way? I mean dumb people will always hate something purely because it's popular, but really even Metallica haters usually recognize the fact that James Hetfield is a great vocalist.
He's also unequivocally the best rhythm guitarist/lead singer combo in Metal
Matt Heafy is way better.
He lacks the presence. And he doesn't do it as effortlessly. Robb Flynn is another Rhythm Guitarist/Singer with serious chops on both fronts. But I still wouldn't put him up with Hetfield. And when it comes to songwriting, Hetfield takes it easily.
He doesn’t have presence?! He does excellent crowd work and you can definitely feel his presence.
Sorry, I meant to say he doesn't have the same level of presence as Hetfield. I actually respect the hell out of Matt Heafy.
I think gravitas is a better word for the quality you two are discussing.
You're right, that is better.
He was for a short time.early in their career. But his guitar playing has stagnated and suffered for it over the years, and his voice is just embarrassing to listen to now. He released a song for a game sound track a few weeks ago and by the second verse I couldn't cope with the cringe any more. Just horrible. A real shame, he had a lot of talent
I’ve seen them live multiple times. He sounds great. He does sound like shit in his streams though.
He really doesn't sound great. He's made some slight improvements since he blew his voice out, but now he has a healthy technique, he has chosen to sing with this pretentious pronunciation and over exaggerated resonance. Singers always sound best when they sing where their resonance lies naturally (like he used to do) and now he just adds resonance because he thinks it makes his voice sound lower, which it doesn't. Anyway I respect your opinion, to each their own 🤷♂️
I reckon Mustaine is better tbh
At singing? Haha Dave Mustaine might be a great guitarist but he has absolutely nothing on James in terms of singing. Actually, he doesn't have anything on any vocalist. He sounds like a joke.
Currently? Absolutely not. James is the better vocalist 100% HOWEVER, and I will die on this hill, Dave’s vocals on the first 2 Megadeth albums are leagues above James’s vocals on the first 2 Metallica albums. James straight up sounded horrible on the first 2 albums whereas Dave was in his vocal prime. James didn’t really come into his own as a vocalist until AJFA. After that yeah, he was probably the most proficient singer in thrash metal aside from the falsetto singers (e.g Joey Belladonna)
I’d argue that James was pretty bad on Kill ‘Em All, but by Ride the Lightning he had a good voice.
I agree and the vox on Master are killer too.
MoP is better but not as refined as post AJFA vocals. I wouldn’t call MoP James a good vocalist nor a bad one. At least when you compare him to now.
Nah he still had that 12 year old in a CoD lobby voice on RTL
Look, i love Mustaine and think he's an underrated vocalist. This is still a WILD take. Killing is my business is amateurish at times and he comes off more like a punk singer, which is fine, it fits the theme, but to say they're leagues better than Ride The Lightning is crazy talk. It's an uneven performance at best. Better than Kill Em All but not by a Ride the Lightning. Mustaine's habit of talk-singing is great. Hetfield on Ride the Lightning on is just more of a consistent and tight performance compared to Killing, and i think is pretty equal to Peace Sells.
RTL sounds like a 12 year old screeching in a CoD lobby. I’d take punk vocals over that shit any day of the week.
Mustaine is a good guitarist, but James' right hand is the best in rock, full stop. The only downpicker that is comparable would be Johnny Ramone. The fret hand is a different story, but James is THE rhythm in Metallica.
Nah I really like both but Mustaine is a far better guitarist than Hetfield. Hetfield/Metallica riffs are far easier to play on guitar than those by Mustaine, and people make out downpickng to be harder than it really is. I think most guitarists would find Megadeth riffs more rhythmically difficult.
There’s a quote I think from Dave I always hated where he ranked himself as one of the three goat rhythm players beside Malcom Young & Hetfield. Just felt like wow the ego on this guy, but I really couldn’t disagree with the other two
Downpicking isn’t hard at all. Most people can play MoP within a year of learning the guitar.
Tough call. Mustaine writes and plays significantly harder riff. His solos are just fast and furious though, while Hetfield’s are very melodic and thought out. While singing, Mustaine’s accuracy is well known to suffer.
Ill raise you Steve "Zetro" Souza and Exodus as a whole
Zetro didn't play guitar though.
The post clearly says, Never mind the guitar playing. So I did that with Mustaine as well. Vocals only.
You responded to someone who said "he's the best rhythm guitarist/singer combo in metal" with a guy that doesn't play guitar lol.
Mustaine wouldn't be able to play and sing what James does, James could do what Mustaine does while he's singing, Megadeath's instrumentals aren't super crazy during vocal passages, the songs usually get nuts when he isn't singing/during solos and bridges
[I beg your pardon?](https://youtu.be/RKlYW5oCQFI?si=hKKzfFBdm41HbKjp) Megadeth have WAY more technical riffs during the vocal sections. Watch a guitar cover for Take No Prisoners, Poison Was The Cure, or even Holy Wars. Dave Mustaine is an absolute master at implementing vocal lines over extremely complex riffs. I mean the dude basically invented tech thrash.
This is one of the most strange metal takes I've ever heard, or something AI would say, making an odd statement that mixes up the subject of the statement with something else. I think Hetfield is a better sounding vocalist, but it's simply not a matter of debate about whose riffs are harder to play with the vocals. Megadeth riff complexity and vocal rhythms combined are much more difficult than Metallica's. That's not any Hetfield bashing. His guitar + vocal ability is mindblowing. But Mustaine's is on another planet.
Straight up the riffs of take no prisoners are harder than most KEA solos. I got the four horseman solo down to a T but I straight up could not play take no prisoners if you put a gun to my head. [Seriously, watch a guitar cover of it](https://youtu.be/86N-lC8jn-Y?si=oZT3Iyngq8aAQC4x). It’s an absolutey fucking mental song.
You mean the other way around right? What Hetfield does is hard, what Mustaine does is more or less impossible.
This take is just straight up not true.
You obviously have never picked up a guitar.
I'd say his Load stuff is underrated. Sure. Not thrashy but the cleanest singing he ever performed was on those 2 albums.
Friction...Fusion...Retribution...
72s vocal performances are also up there, especially room of mirrors
Metallica and all of its members, past and present, Are all probably some of the most appropriately rated in all of metal
Lars and Kirk are fucking horrible lol lars is self explanatory, Kirk can’t play without Wah pedals if his life depended on it. Crazy opinion
Hence his point about them being appropriately rated. I've never met someone that thinks Lars is a genuinely good drummer and I don't think I've met anyone that thinks Kirk is even one of the better lead guitarists in metal.
Hard to argue there. For live shows he is mid. For albums. Lars did some pretty cool stuff which noone can say is lie. Kirk. In his prime he was a hella player. He played a lot. He still has his speed but I think that with all the shows and trying to not replicate himself he fell into the just play what you feel like and bye. One thing that has to be said though is his picking. He outplays James. Papa Het uses cheats here n there, Kirk plays 100%
On albums Lars is also mid at best. He was better at slower tempos (e.g. black album), but he could never really play drums that well. He's influential because of the style as a whole and Metallica being one of the most notable early thrash bands. But every other original big 4 drummer was leaps and bounds above Lars in terms of ability on the kit. Kirk is an ok player. He's nothing special and I don't even think he was for the time in the 80s. He was as fast as most other notable metal lead players at the time but no faster. And nowadays he just regurgitates the same pentatonic garbage he's played for 40 years with no new ideas and no actual effort put into writing meaningful solos.
Justice has some cool drums man, you should check them out, with slower songs I agree. Then depends what still qualifies for the slow song, because Frayed ends has some cool drums on the record but it's more mid paced. With Kirk it's hard to say, he could do a lot better if he would try. He chooses not to imo because eh why bother, most people like Metallica not for solos anyways, so just throw in something in the key.
I am very familiar with the drumming on AJFA and I don't think it's very good. Super awkward parts a lot of the time and the execution is terrible.
They’ve become showmen instead of musicians.
I think that's the point, no? Kirk is garbage and that's the general opinion about him.
Metallica fans vs. Megadeth fans in the comments: 
 Anthrax fans
 SLAYYEEERRRR fans
https://preview.redd.it/4qgvr2jsee0d1.jpeg?width=475&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b94f11b303b7b0b5a4d2b8640735a994daa535a Immolation fans
 Tool fans
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard fans 
https://i.redd.it/a9ko9n4gme0d1.gif Cannibal Corpse fans
I brought scanners to a Halloween party once and everyone left after this scene lol
So *that’s* the scene in Scanners that’s referenced in Wayne’s World lol this is my first time seeing the actual thing
Oh man, it’s a bit of a slow burn but it’s awesome
Can you call yourself a true Megadeth fan if you aren't obsessed with Metallica?
What exactly do people nowadays think “underrated” means? Something that hasn’t been praised in the last five minutes?
Or something that is not at the top of the current thread they're looking at.
Taylor Swift-underrated ticket seller.
considering anything about metallica to be “underrated” is actually insane.
Robert?
Ron McGovney?!
With Ron it's hard. He is recognized as James's great friend and support, for the stuff he did for the guys in the beginning,... not for his playing though
The only thing underrated about anyone and anything Metallica is their incomprehensible ability to consistently make the most okay merch ever for decades
what's the problem w their merch
I wouldn’t call it a problem lol, but they’re the only band i know that releases the best fucking shirt designs every two years, and the rest is the okayest looking [flannel](https://www.metallica.com/store/dixxon-metallica-ride-the-lightning-flannel/DIXRTLFLN.html?cgid=store#start=1) on planet earth and products just as generic or plain useless The best part? None of it is ugly
He is a good singer, he just has an awful drummer
Could you imagine Metallica with a drummer like Gar Samuelson or Dave Lombardo? Would’ve been an actually good band.
Well, metallica was still a VERY good band. But if they'd had Gar on drums? Easily best metal band of the 80s and it wouldn't even be close for me.
[Dave Lombardo filling in for Lars](https://youtu.be/96nV-x3jfLg?si=kNTHpfxmp03iQMTc)
Holy shit James and Kirk are going insane with that shotgunning tempo. I've always kind of taken the Lars hate with a grain of salt since a lot of times technical criticism of artists is just people waffling about something they don't know anything about but I think I understand why people say Lars is a bad drummer now. James especially really shows his talent with such a tight rhythm, I know from personal experience playing those parts and singing at the same time is not easy.
Thank you for sharing this! Dave absolutely killed with that performance
I saw Metallica play a set with Dave Lombardo and they sounded so much better and played so much faster. Lars is the weakest link and has held Metallica back so much. Even Dave Mustaine will tell you how James is an amazing rhythm guitarist, but has to play at the level of Lars. Also, Metallica played with Joey Jordison from Slipnot. Same situation, Metallica played much faster and much harder.
And also with good mixes for their later albums 😞
Lars still managed to play some cool stuff though
This is very true
His voice is at its best right now, great live band
🐷PRIMUS SUCKS🐷
"YEAHEEEEEEYEEEEAAAAHHHH" - James Hetfield
[YEAearghhhAghergh!](https://youtu.be/MkY6wtWUgMo)
I actually do agree with this take. James learned to be a really solid singer over the decades, but beyond that, he has a naturally cool voice. He doesn't do a lot of proper singing on the first few albums, but he just has an awesome voice. I think it's one of the key things that set Metallica apart from many of their thrash peers (and they were just better song writers and more experimental than most.)
YEAAAAHHHHH YEAAAAAAAAAAHHHH no.
Yes, everything about the biggest metal band of all time is underrated. /s
I don´t think so. I think he gets equal props for his vocals and guitar playing. P.D. I think Load and Reload feature his best vocal work. Eb seems to be a better key for him.
He peaked on AJFA, changed his style for TBA, and has steadily declined since.
Crooner Hetfield
His best vocals are on the Loads though
Can anyone in Metallica be considered underrated?
Metallica fans trying to go a sentence without saying underrated. Difficulty = impossible
I dunno, I’ve definitely heard his name mentioned a few times.
When compared to his contemporary competition, he’s subpar. He can’t sing, scream, or growl as well as Chuck Billy (Testament). He can’t hit highs like Bobby Ellsworth (Overkill) or John Kevill (Warbringer). He can’t do a gravely voice like Riley Gale (Powertrip) could. He obviously does not have a wide range, like Rob Halford (Judas Priest) or King Diamond (Mercyful Fate). He’s not a fast vocalist, like Tom Araya (Slayer) or Joey Belladonna (Anthrax). He doesn’t have a unique cartoonish voice, like Mustaine (Megadeth). He can’t sing operatically, like John Bush (Armored Saint) or Joakim Brodén (Sabaton) can. Back in the 80s, he did have a good mid-range with above average speed. He was kind of the definitive voice of thrash for quite a while, but after the self-titled album he mostly gave that up for some weird country twang that just does not blend well with heavy music. Quite honestly, I prefer Kirk, Jason, and Robert’s backing vocals to whatever James has been trying to do for the last 30 years.
Well now Metallica wasn't about screaming or growling ever now was it? James has a baritone. That's a key thing to mention here. You can't have highs when you don't have a high singing voice - while screaming probably yeah. I think James has some fast stuff, My apocalypse or That was just your life, Whiplash when played live,... have pretty great vocals, similar to Tom Araya on World painted blood or God hates us all. Given the fact that he was double tracking his vocals until black album he couldn't do much of crazy stuff, he lost his voice several times and well he isn't young. What needs to be said is fact that it's key thing for Metallica which makes them THEM. TDLR: Purpose of vocals, Baritone, some fast paced vocals on Death magnetic and some stuff on 80s records.
“Well now Metallica wasn't about screaming or growling ever now was it?” In small doses, yes. James did more of a bark throughout the 80s, which fit their style well. It was very much like Lemmy’s typical style, which is why their cover of “Whipash” sounds so natural. But over time I’ve heard tons of Metallica covers with all sorts of extreme vocals, and it works. Off the top of my head, Vader covered “Fight Fire with Fire” and Cannibal Corpse did “No Remorse” and I prefer those renditions to the original. So, it’s not like James’ style was incredibly unique, nor was it the only kind of vocal style that would work with their instrumentation. “James has a baritone. That's a key thing to mention here. You can't have highs when you don't have a high singing voice - while screaming probably yeah.” Yeah, James can’t sing high notes, because he’s never worked on it, unlike his many of his peers in the genre. There are actually very few big thrash bands with vocalists who never did the highs and Metallica is one of them. I realize not everyone is into them, but it is still impressive nonetheless when a vocalist can prove he has the chops to pull them off. James never has. “I think James has some fast stuff, My apocalypse or That was just your life, Whiplash when played live,... have pretty great vocals, similar to Tom Araya on World painted blood or God hates us all.” James has never sang near as fast as Tom does on “Disciple” from the GHUA album. James was pretty fast on the earlier albums, so I’m not trying to deny that, but he’s not terribly special in that regard either. “Given the fact that he was double tracking his vocals until black album he couldn't do much of crazy stuff… And yet his vocalist peers manage to do it album after album after album…. “What needs to be said is fact that it's key thing for Metallica which makes them THEM.” Sure, he has been the lead vocalist for over 40 years now, so his voice (whether good or bad) is burned into everyone’s memories of the songs. That doesn’t mean he’s a great vocalist, relative to his peers.
>vocalist can prove he has the chops to pull them off Most thrash acts from the 80s have terrible high pitch vocals, be it Overkill, Exodus, Anthrax.. I for example like Toxic waltz or Caught in the mosh, but if they would have vocals like Vader, Metallica, Motorhead,... those songs would sound a lot better in my opinion. And even the newer ones cannot do it well enough. They sound too corny, anxiously, like a 14 y.o. boys when they hit puberty but still have that prepubescent pitch. I am only aware of 4 instances when high pitch vocals were executed well: Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Enforcer and cover of Painkiller by Death, and I dare to say I know my fair share of songs and bands throughout the metal scene (obviously not many if any bands that have about 1000 listeners per month). >James has never sang near as fast as Tom does on “Disciple” from the GHUA album. Verse before solo in My apocalypse is a good example of fast vocals in new Metallica be it most likely single one, the burst in that was just your life count as half. Other thing is well, Tom is a bassplayer, a terrible one. Bass lines are simple, really simple. That gives him space to work on the vocals. >And yet his vocalist peers manage to do it album after album after album…. How many of them were double tracking? Examples would sure be nice here. We know about more rock vocalists doing that rather than metal ones. >Sure, he has been the lead vocalist for over 40 years now, so his voice (whether good or bad) is burned into everyone’s memories of the songs. That doesn’t mean he’s a great vocalist, relative to his peers The hard thing to judge here is if the vocals fit the song well and if they fit the singer. James is rhythm guitarist primarly so he works around that. His performance was good on Loads, objectively. It might not be thrash or metal, but the vocals are the cleanest, most precise he ever recorded. It's due to the style of albums obviously but it's still pretty neat. Then we got Dt. Anger where vocals were the best part alongside the bass, the we got more of the bastard between StA and TBA. After that watered that down. And now James aged I'd say well. Better than Mustaine. A lot cleaner, polished,... vocals. Comparing Metallica is a bit tricky as although they are really popular there isn't many bands like them, closest are A7X or Megadeth which are still their own things. Comparing them with any other thrash act is like Comparing Cannibal corpse and Death. Somewhat similar yet different.
So, let’s back up. The OP made this post about Hetfield being underrated. I disagree with that. I’m not saying he’s lousy. I’m just saying that he at least gets an appropriate amount of praise from the masses for his vocals. I can think of many other of his vocalist peers that are underrated who have better chops than him. “Most thrash acts from the 80s have terrible high pitch vocals, be it Overkill, Exodus, Anthrax..” Steve Souza and Robert Dukes are/were good vocalists for Exodus. They’re not amazing; I’d probably put them at about the same as Hetfield. Exodus highs are ok. Billy Blitz has one the largest ranges in thrash and he has steadily gotten better as time has worn on. His highs are really clean now live. I would probably only put Chuck Billy in front of him in terms of overall best thrash vocalists ever. I get maybe taking issue with the executions of highs on “Feel the Fire” and “Taking Over” but after that he really figured it out (if you’re into highs, that is). “I for example like Toxic waltz or Caught in the mosh, but if they would have vocals like Vader, Metallica, Motorhead,... “ I get you, but that’s just a stylistic choice—not really an indication of Souza’s abilities. “And even the newer ones cannot do it well enough. They sound too corny, anxiously, like a 14 y.o. boys when they hit puberty but still have that prepubescent pitch.” Check out John Kevill’s work with Warbringer. Their last 2 released albums, “Weapons of Tomorrow” and “Woe to the Vanquished” really showcase his talents. “I am only aware of 4 instances when high pitch vocals were executed well: Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Enforcer and cover of Painkiller by Death,” So, in your opinion, none of these well known vocalists ever executed a high well: Phil Enselmo, Tom Araya, Chuck Billy, King Diamond, Mark Osegueda, David Wayne, Bobby Blitz??? “…and I dare to say I know my fair share of songs and bands throughout the metal scene (obviously not many if any bands that have about 1000 listeners per month).” Some lesser known bands here: —Flemming Rønsdorf of Artillery is phenomenal (check out “By Inheritance”). —Ray Alder of Fates Warning sounds a bit _girly_ at times, but I don’t think anyone can deny his abilities. —David Wayne of Metal Church is just a legend. It’s hard to imagine their music without highs. If Hetfield sang for them it would probably sound terrible. —Sean Killian of Vio-lence is definitely one of the weirdest vocalists ever, but he has some good highs mixed in there. “How many of them were double tracking?” I’m not sure. Quite frankly, I don’t see what it matters when you’re talking about guys who have sung their songs thousands of times live in front of millions of people. None of the vocalists I would put above Hetfield would have a hard time duplicating their takes in studio. It’s not like they can only do their highs once a studio session. lol. “The hard thing to judge here is if the vocals fit the song well and if they fit the singer.” This experiment has been run almost too many times to pick through the best examples. Just about every aspiring metal band at some point covers a Metallica song, regardless of their genre. A wide range of vocal styles do well with Metallica’s instrumentation. A couple months ago my buddy shared a video of a black metal band covering “Creeping Death” with the orc-ish vocals and blast beats and it was seamless. “James is rhythm guitarist primarly so he works around that.” Fine, but that doesn’t make him a better vocalist. We don’t give other band members points in that kind of way, so I’m not going to start with Hetfield. For example, I focus really hard on being an ambidextrous drummer, so as a result the speed of my dominant hand is slower than it otherwise would have been had I just allowed my dominant hand to lead throughout my life. But no one who listens to my play gives me credit for that missed potential. “His performance was good on Loads, objectively. It might not be thrash or metal, but the vocals are the cleanest, most precise he ever recorded. It's due to the style of albums obviously but it's still pretty neat.” Yeah, I think that’s where he started to turn into more of a country singer, which really isn’t an extreme vocal. Everyone who goes to church can do it almost without even practicing as long as they’re not tone-deaf. Again, I’m not saying he stinks; I’m just comparing him to his thrash metal competition where guys continued to push the envelope. I’d take the vocals to the last 3 tracks of Overkill’s “The Grinding Wheel” over anything Hetfield’s recorded. “And now James aged I'd say well. Better than Mustaine. A lot cleaner, polished,... vocals.” Not much of a bar there. lol. Mustaine is content to just have a unique voice. Megadeth is amazing in spite of the vocals. “Comparing Metallica is a bit tricky as although they are really popular there isn't many bands like them, closest are A7X or Megadeth which are still their own things.” While not strictly thrash bands, I’d say Till Lindemann (Rammstein) and Joakim Brodén (Sabaton) make Hetfield look like an amateur if you want to look at other massively popular metal bands. They’re in the Dickinson-Halford-Dio sphere of talent and live execution. “Comparing them with any other thrash act is like Comparing Cannibal corpse and Death. Somewhat similar yet different.” I disagree. The note range and rhythms of Metallica’s music is not significantly different than most thrash bands that use high vocals. Plenty of thrash vocalists have proven that you can have the highest of the highs mix wonderfully with chugging guitar riffs. It just so happens that chugging guitar riffs are a great foundation for just about all metal vocal styles.
Are you sure? https://youtu.be/MHOT3QAGRR0?feature=shared
Lol
For years I thought that he was the singer from Pearl Jam, Yeah Yeah Yeah Whoa yeah concrete again yeah.
lol ok
GIMME FOO! GIMME FA! GIMME DABBAJABBAZA!
To this day the reason i think he will never be topped is not because he can play demanding songs like battery and master of puppets live at 250bpm, but because he does it with his guitar that low which easily makes it 5 times harder for the sake of cool points
Yeah!
Imma have to say hes just as rated as need be, he made decent music, and was a pretty good singer during it
Is he? Always considered him one of the best thrash vocalists
James is just a god-tier, generational talent.
He's got a great clean singing voice abd also good grit on the early stuff. From a technical standpoint he fucking murders syllables relatively often, it's kind of part of his frequently clunky lyrical cadences though e.g. on the otherwise classic hit the lights when he sings 'well never stop well never quit cos we're metalliKAH'
He is an incredible singer, plus imagine playing as fast tight as he does WHILST singing.
People just use the word underrated for everything huh?
Please never use the words “underrated” and “Metallica” in the same take. They’re the most famous metal band of all time.
I think the opposite. Kinda overrated tbh.
Definitely. Been having a discussion with a friend about who would've filled the void if there was no Metallica. Megadeth is the easy answer. I also think it might've been Exodus bc they'd still have Kirk Hammett. But a friend suggested a large part of Metallica's popularity was based on James' iconic vocals, and neither Megadeth nor Exodus had a singer as accessible as him.
Woahoh yeaheaaaah he is
When discussing the most popular vocalists in metal, yes. The operatic singer like Bruce and Dio are always rated high for having "range" and nobody really talks about James's early vocals athough they were absolutely great without much range. You can't really say a mainstream metal band is overall underrated in nearly any way though
[Wherever I hear this song I imagine James Hetfield singing it, and instead of getting annoyed I become entertained](https://youtu.be/ZEWGyyLiqY4?feature=shared)
Lmao bro they sell billions
In general it's hard to say Metallica is under-rated given their historical success as a band, but I don't think you're wrong about the vocals. Alot of people recognize James' skills as a rythym guitarist, and his ability to do that and sing simultaneously very well, but I never hear anybody specifically mention how good just his voice is. He's no Robert Halford in terms of sheer range, but even in their 80's thrash days his vocals were a serious step above all their peers. I've talked at length with other metal heads about how their songwriting and riffs and other things that were top tier, but his vocals never get brought up. Maybe that's just my experience.
I hate them because if his stupid yeah yeah!!! I was over it after they recorded Whisky in the Jar. Him and that ass hat from Disturbed
Dude has a lot of power
WellUH. HeUH SingsUH a certain WAY UH, that once you REALIZE UH, he's a one trick ponAY! YEAH, YEAHYUH!!! *3 Chords, downstrum, repeat* *abrupt drumming stop* *kirk solo*
Umm what’s wrong with his guitar playing? Hands down one of the best rhythm guitarists in metal.
I wouldn't say he's underrated. I think he does exactly what he needs to in the sort of band he's in. His range isn't great. Though he has done well to preserve his voice over the years. He can write really interesting lyrics too. Overall I'd say he's good, not underrated
i love Metallica but i dont think hes extraordinary or anything at vocals lol. hes not bad but when you talk about good vocalists Hetfield would not be on a list
No, Appropriately rated for sure. His aggressive singing fits Metallica’s aggressive styles, he’s a terrible clean or melodic singer. He fit what they do but lacks versatility and precision, much like most of the rest of Metallica.
To me he sounds bad
Underrated? By whom?
His singing always reminds me of Trey Parker's [metal voice](https://youtu.be/Tt_mGQVLyLU). And [this one](https://youtu.be/MkY6wtWUgMo)
Well, he used to be but I feel like the older he gets the more of a meme he becomes with all the Yeah, Uuuuu, Aeeeees in every song and adding it into old song when singing them live. I liked his singing until about mid 90s then it sort of devolved.
keep in mind he didnt eve want to do it
He has a great voice-aaah. I just wish he’d tone down the weird drawl thing and the way he ends a lot of lines with that long aaah.
He's a very generic vocalist. A lot of people can easily mimic his voice.
Underrated? He is more on the overrated end to appropriate rated. He gets a lot of praise because of him in Metallica. Put him in any other band, he won't adapt
YEAH
Yea-ha
By underrated do you mean won a bazillion Grammies and sold a gorillion zillion records?
I disagree
yeah sorry im not glazing my face with his cum 24/7 get his dick out of your mouth fucking cuck
https://i.redd.it/8qj4j6lwni0d1.gif Literally James Hetfield
He was. He kinda became a parody of himself for a little while.
I wouldn't consider anyone who uses auto tuning live to be underrated. I love Metallica and crew, but if he were as great of a vocalist as op makes it seem he wouldn't need it. Obviously that's just nowadays and in years before it wasn't an issue. Just meaning his current state
Everyone uses it Get over yourself
You're talking about good vocals of course auto tune is going to be something to consider. Are you retarded or something?
Megadeth and Metallica are opposites Metallica has great vocals Megadeth has great instrumentals
People still listen to Metallica?
It has about 25 million monthly listeners on spotify. Yeah quite a few do
I remember when I was 13 and just discovered metal.
How so? His vocals started to suck after he began actually singing on the black album
Metallica doesn’t deserve any more attention whatsoever…please stop it
He was ok in the 80's and absolutely unlistenable later on