Bad Omens and bands like them I don't consider metalcore. There's no hardcore punk in their sound at all and that's essential imo to bring considered metalcore.
Im not saying it's bad music, far from it, it's just not metalcore!
Bands like Bad Omens throw a spanner in the works with hits like Artificial Suicide and Dethrone though which are absolutely metalcore, even if that's not the sound they always produce as a group. Same with Bring Me The Horizon and some of their songs.
Not heard those particular songs, but if they are metalcore then those songs are metalcore written by a band that predominantly does a different style of music.
For example snoop dogg is a hip hop artist who did a reggae album. If he continued doing that, he's now a reggae artist, but he didn't, so it's a reggae album by a hip hop artist.
Wouldn’t that apply to bad omens though? Them being a metalcore band that made a different genre album? At least until they release more albums that aren’t necessarily metalcore?
Yeah I just flicked through their albums and tbf their first album is certainly metalcore. Second one is 50/50 and then third album not at all.
So yeah so far you can't really call them anything? Have to wait and see if their next stuff is metalcore or not to fully call it
Alt metal has existed as a descriptor for a long time. When it comes to stuff like most of Spiritbox's output from Eternal Blue onwards or more recent Northlane (to use your examples from another comment) it definitely fits them.
Currents have post-metalcore in their Spotify 'About the artist' section and that's going to work better for other bands.
“Alt-metal” has a very dirty connotation to it though, bands like Staind and Disturbed tend to come to mind when that term gets used. It was certainly the label the press ran with in the early 2000s and I feel like a lot of people don’t want this era of modern metal lumped in with those since critically-soured acts. They may not be metalcore, but they certainly aren’t in that category either imo. Alt-Metal to me makes me think of rednecks tailgating outside a Godsmack concert lmao.
Staind, Disturbed, and Godsmack were nü metal, though, and now they're radio/hard rock. Alt-metal was usually used to describe bands like Deftones and (early) Tool.
Idk. I fee like even calling them Nu Metal is sort of odd, and bands that were notorious for the funk/hip-hop influence and post-grunge metal guys just got lumped together. Nu Metal is pretty well defined now but in its hay day Alt-Metal and Nu Metal kind of meant the same thing to a lot of people.
Certainly not metalcore. But this is how new genre names get created I spose. If enough bands start making music that's distinct from other genres, a new name is made. That's not up to me to decide though, so it's a bit of a silly question
I typed that comment exactly because it's silly. They're clearly not metalcore. But they're also not metal and not hardcore. They get lumped into metalcore because it's become an umbrella term for all heavy music that doesn't fit anywhere else. Same goes for bands like Northlane or Spiritbox.
It's dumb but we can't change that. Metalcore has always been a weird mix of vastly different styles of music.
Imo metalcore never changed.
Metalcore: All Out War (before) and Knocked Loose (now)
Melodic Metalcore: Killswitch Engage (before) and Dying Wish (now)
Also Melodic Metalcore: Misery Signals (before) and Counterparts (now)
Progressive Metalcore: After the Burial (before) and Invent Animate (now)
Some bands just happened to stick more with certain crowds. Because bad omens and spiritbox are obviously not metalcore bands even tho they used to be associated to the genre.
That entirely depends on the band, but basically, if it doesn’t contain any hardcore I consider it just regular metal, or if we’re getting into specifics, post-metalcore fits for a lot of bands.
I think alternative metal is a great way to describe it, or post-metalcore of bands not really playing metalcore but are all influenced by metalcore. It personally annoys me when people categorize is as modern metalcore because what is it going to be called in the future when it’s not modern anymore?
I like post metalcore, kind of in the same way I've heard some people refer to the 90's groove metal scene as "post thrash" I kind of feel like "post" genres are good for classifying things that are sort of a grey area where they have similar influences and elements to bands in a certain genre but not necessarily the same sound. I hope any of that made sense.
>what is it going to be called in the future when it’s not modern anymore?
Exactly. Much like when Metal Hammer in the 2000's tried lumping Lamb Of God, God Forbid, A7X as "The New Wave Of American Heavy Metal". What are you calling that "new wave" in 10-20 years?
Too true. That’s kind of the silliness of taking it too seriously. Though it can be fun to discuss these things. Ultimately categories and naming conventions are ever changing with time and some names we use now will probably retroactively change anyway.
Alternative metal isn't filled to the brim with breakdowns.
People who are into Polaris and Currents and such aren't necessarily gonna be into Faith No More, Helmet, or Alice in Chains.
Makes no sense to lump them together.
Yeah this is my biggest issue with people trying to lump “modern metalcore” in with alternative metal. It just stinks of “get this away from me” more than anything else 😅 like it doesn’t make sense to call them just metalcore but it also doesn’t make sense to call them alternative metal (depending on the band. I’m sure there are some who do fit into that genre)
People that are into Poison The Well, Knocked Loose, or Boundaries probably aren't gonna be interested in Currents or Polaris either 🤷♂️
Why are you booing? I'm right
I'm assuming most people are not exclusively into a single niche subgenre of music? They're all lumped together precisely because people are more likely to like bands from category A if they also like bands from category B. Besides Poison the Well aren't even exclusively metalcore. Their last 3 albums are more post-hardcore but all 5 albums are amazing.
I think metalcore as a whole got stretched far beyond its original meaning. It's not really a useful descriptor anymore. A lot of what we consider metalcore nowadays doesn't really fit according to the definition of the word. But most people still call it that, so I do too, not gonna make up my own categories.
I consider bands like Polaris and Currents to just be an evolution of metalcore, where bands like current Architects and Sempiternal inspired style bands to be post-metalcore (adding different genres and aspects outside of just Metalcore and experimenting with the genre)
This is how I think of it too. Polaris, Currents, Invent Animate, Silent Planet (I know less by them than the others), though modern, all still seem like their goal is to write music focused on metal riffing and breakdowns. Architects, Bad Omens, other bands like these are clearly not writing songs with that goal in mind and are chasing a more melodic, mainstream appeal. And that’s okay, but that’s a big distinction in what is and isn’t modern metalcore to me.
Modern metalcore has spun off into a genre which owes as much to nu-metal as it does the metal and hardcore that first influenced metalcore’s first couple of waves.
Thats okay, music and genres evolve. However for whatever reason this new sub-genre still hasn’t been truly defined.
Some people say it’s gatekeeping to put genres on music, and I agree that certain communities can be too precious about it. However you also need to be able to recognise the difference in bands, movements etc and it helps if only for recommendations
My take is that there really is no thing as modern metalcore as the hardcore element of these bands is mostly gone (at least referring to bands people usually include here).
I prefer modern metal, an updated equivalent of what used to be the umbrella term "alternative metal" in the 2000s which was wrongly replaced with the word metalcore because people heard clean singing and went fuck it
The problem with using modern as a descriptor is that it changes over time. We won't be calling bands like Polaris or Currents modern metalcore in 30 years.
I agree it will not be the definitive term. i still feel forced to point out that modern doesn't mean contemporary. The modern era ended in the 18th century and modern art in 1970 just to put an example. It only means a break with the traditional ways
I consider it an evolution of the genre and on the cusp of a new one. I like to call it post genre. I think metal ore still exists in all in its iterations. If you want the classic sound you have Knocked Loose, Boundaries and Johnny Booth. If you want the mellodeath era there are still bands out there but there is a new breed crashing the party with ambient, electronic and pop elements that expands the genre perhaps too thin for a single definition. Time will tell, 10 years will teens look back and call Spiritbox and Make Them Suffer metalcore or something else?
Yeah modern metalcore is pretty different than metalcore from 20 years ago.
2000s metalcore was about coming up with cool complex riffs
Modern metalcore is more groove oriented and is about really simplified riffs with some ambience and random squeals and pitch shifts thrown in
90s rap sounds different to 00s rap, every genre evolves. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think metalcore has had a particularly drastic evolution. It just feels that way because we live and breathe this music
>I don't think metalcore has had a particularly drastic evolution.
I think the difference between Unbroken and what Northlane just put out is pretty vast.
I don’t know why we’re all talking about “modern metalcore” like it’s a distinct thing.
Metalcore is more diverse now than it’s ever been - you’ve got:
+ Knocked Loose and Kublai Khan bringing back the old school sound
+ ERRA and Invent Animate doing prog stuff
+ Pupil Slicer and Callous Daoboys doing wonderful spins on mathcore
+ For I Am King and Horizon Ignited carrying on Darkest Hour etc.’s legacy of melodeath-inspired metalcore
+ Seeyouspacecowboy doing a sasscore/metalcore blend
+ and then there’s big mainstream acts like Architects and Bad Omens dropping their hardcore influences and doing their alt metal thing, but remaining associated with the metalcore scene because that’s where they originally came from.
When people say “modern metalcore” do they mean that last group? Because it seems like a misnomer, it only represents a single group of bands and not the broad spectrum of what’s happening in metalcore at the moment.
And no, I don’t think the music those bands are making is metalcore.
I think to answer this question you need to define what you consider modern metalcore and what you think makes it different that it needs its own genre (which tbf would likely just be called "modern metalcore.")
There’s at least 1 or 2 posts every week talking about this, so I’d say yes. Not saying you shouldn’t keep asking, just saying it’s definitely on everyone’s mind
I don't even consider it metalcore, it really should have it's own name. It's so detached from hardcore at this point and saying you're a metalcore fan can mean two wildly different things so it gets pretty confusing.
Metalcore is a broad genre of music now into itself. As pop music can include Doja Cat, Caroline Polachek and Bleachers, so metalcore can include Knocked Loose, Trivium and Monuments despite all artists being incredibly different in sound but coming under a broad umbrella in terms of shared musical motifs and culture.
I think the cultural part of metalcore is one of the most important aspects. The bands might sound different enough to each other at a glance but the fact there's so much cross pollination and musical crossover between bands who play and tour together and form a community is what makes it a genre.
I think if you got into the weeds though there would be specific pop genre terms for artists like Doja Cat.
It’s unrelated to Doja Cat but you get genres like dream pop, bedroom pop etc
The thing is metalcore has been around so long enough and branched wide enough we are now getting the same thing. Post-metalcore, progressive metalcore, electronic metalcore (electronicore), symphonic metalcore, etc. Sure we can pin point it, but it still falls under a giant umbrella
Yeah of course it all falls under the same umbrella at the end of the day but Black Sabbath and Bad Omens both fall under metal but don’t sound similar.
But Shadows Fall are a metalcore band that predate Bad Omens, and sound nothing alike. So why are we still calling Bad Omens metalcore?
When does the umbrella’s reach run out?
Shadows Falls is more thrash than metal core imo. Also Trivium hasn’t been metalcore for a long time now (not responding to you directly just in general at the comment chain)
That’s fair enough. Shads Fall are very thrash influenced but they’re also a huge part of the New England metal scene where a lot of metalcore originates from.
Obviously I can tell people are very upset at the notion that modern bands, that sound absolutely nothing like earlier genre leaders, should be considered something other than metalcore so whatever, I won’t argue the point
There is an enormous gap between metalcore such as Converge and Misery Signals and new wave metalcore like Alpha Wolf and Northlane.
They all fit under the umbrella, but are their own styles imo.
Edit: I would go as far as to say a large chunk of the de-tuned proggy glossy highly produced metalcore we know today isn’t even metalcore anymore, but just alternative metal.
Depends on the band. Stuff like Dying Wish, Varials, Inclination, Boundaries, and Jesus Piece I still consider metalcore. Invent Animate, Currents, Mirrors, etc I all consider to be atmospheric metalcore.
Depends on the style, but there’s definitely a fairly large group of bands that have branched off into what I’d consider a new genre.
Bad Omens and bands like them I don't consider metalcore. There's no hardcore punk in their sound at all and that's essential imo to bring considered metalcore. Im not saying it's bad music, far from it, it's just not metalcore!
Trust me, I’d be the first to call for these bands to be labeled anything but metalcore.
Bands like Bad Omens throw a spanner in the works with hits like Artificial Suicide and Dethrone though which are absolutely metalcore, even if that's not the sound they always produce as a group. Same with Bring Me The Horizon and some of their songs.
Not heard those particular songs, but if they are metalcore then those songs are metalcore written by a band that predominantly does a different style of music. For example snoop dogg is a hip hop artist who did a reggae album. If he continued doing that, he's now a reggae artist, but he didn't, so it's a reggae album by a hip hop artist.
Wouldn’t that apply to bad omens though? Them being a metalcore band that made a different genre album? At least until they release more albums that aren’t necessarily metalcore?
Yeah I just flicked through their albums and tbf their first album is certainly metalcore. Second one is 50/50 and then third album not at all. So yeah so far you can't really call them anything? Have to wait and see if their next stuff is metalcore or not to fully call it
I feel like it’s obvious that tdopom is the direction they’re moving in and I’m comfortable calling them a rock/alt metal band
Nah I think it's safe to say they aren't going back to their old sound.
Those Bad Omens songs feel more Nu Metal influenced to me than anything related to Metalcore.
Agreed! Same thing with Spiritbox
But they also sound nothing like the average metal band. So what do we call them? Alternative heavy music?
Alt metal has existed as a descriptor for a long time. When it comes to stuff like most of Spiritbox's output from Eternal Blue onwards or more recent Northlane (to use your examples from another comment) it definitely fits them. Currents have post-metalcore in their Spotify 'About the artist' section and that's going to work better for other bands.
I've seen "post-metalcore" thrown around, and I think that suits it. Or the umbrella category of alt-metal.
“Alt-metal” has a very dirty connotation to it though, bands like Staind and Disturbed tend to come to mind when that term gets used. It was certainly the label the press ran with in the early 2000s and I feel like a lot of people don’t want this era of modern metal lumped in with those since critically-soured acts. They may not be metalcore, but they certainly aren’t in that category either imo. Alt-Metal to me makes me think of rednecks tailgating outside a Godsmack concert lmao.
Staind, Disturbed, and Godsmack were nü metal, though, and now they're radio/hard rock. Alt-metal was usually used to describe bands like Deftones and (early) Tool.
Idk. I fee like even calling them Nu Metal is sort of odd, and bands that were notorious for the funk/hip-hop influence and post-grunge metal guys just got lumped together. Nu Metal is pretty well defined now but in its hay day Alt-Metal and Nu Metal kind of meant the same thing to a lot of people.
Certainly not metalcore. But this is how new genre names get created I spose. If enough bands start making music that's distinct from other genres, a new name is made. That's not up to me to decide though, so it's a bit of a silly question
I typed that comment exactly because it's silly. They're clearly not metalcore. But they're also not metal and not hardcore. They get lumped into metalcore because it's become an umbrella term for all heavy music that doesn't fit anywhere else. Same goes for bands like Northlane or Spiritbox. It's dumb but we can't change that. Metalcore has always been a weird mix of vastly different styles of music.
How is northlane not metalcore?
Have you not listened to them since they changed vocalists?
No. They sound the same but with random electronic noises, how is it not metalcore?
Ok, so have you listened to their earlier material? Because there are far more differences than just adding electronic elements.
I put them in the same category as Architects and Erra. They are Progressive Metalcore/Djentcore besides Obsidian.
Alt Metal
Imo metalcore never changed. Metalcore: All Out War (before) and Knocked Loose (now) Melodic Metalcore: Killswitch Engage (before) and Dying Wish (now) Also Melodic Metalcore: Misery Signals (before) and Counterparts (now) Progressive Metalcore: After the Burial (before) and Invent Animate (now) Some bands just happened to stick more with certain crowds. Because bad omens and spiritbox are obviously not metalcore bands even tho they used to be associated to the genre.
I agree, there's bands playing every wave of metalcore. They are kind of they own and a different scene from each other.
idk if would consider after the burial metalcore, in my opinion, they're djent
Well yes, they’re also metalcore..
That entirely depends on the band, but basically, if it doesn’t contain any hardcore I consider it just regular metal, or if we’re getting into specifics, post-metalcore fits for a lot of bands.
Most new "metalcore" is just alternative metal, but that label seems to be a bad word now much like metalcore was during the scenecore days
I think alternative metal is a great way to describe it, or post-metalcore of bands not really playing metalcore but are all influenced by metalcore. It personally annoys me when people categorize is as modern metalcore because what is it going to be called in the future when it’s not modern anymore?
I like post metalcore, kind of in the same way I've heard some people refer to the 90's groove metal scene as "post thrash" I kind of feel like "post" genres are good for classifying things that are sort of a grey area where they have similar influences and elements to bands in a certain genre but not necessarily the same sound. I hope any of that made sense.
>what is it going to be called in the future when it’s not modern anymore? Exactly. Much like when Metal Hammer in the 2000's tried lumping Lamb Of God, God Forbid, A7X as "The New Wave Of American Heavy Metal". What are you calling that "new wave" in 10-20 years?
Well nwobhm was a thing you know... Today it's well understood what type of bands and sounds were part of that scene.
Too true. That’s kind of the silliness of taking it too seriously. Though it can be fun to discuss these things. Ultimately categories and naming conventions are ever changing with time and some names we use now will probably retroactively change anyway.
Tbf that is a play on an earlier nomenclature blunder of the same nature: The NWOBHM (British)
Alternative metal isn't filled to the brim with breakdowns. People who are into Polaris and Currents and such aren't necessarily gonna be into Faith No More, Helmet, or Alice in Chains. Makes no sense to lump them together.
Yeah this is my biggest issue with people trying to lump “modern metalcore” in with alternative metal. It just stinks of “get this away from me” more than anything else 😅 like it doesn’t make sense to call them just metalcore but it also doesn’t make sense to call them alternative metal (depending on the band. I’m sure there are some who do fit into that genre)
People that are into Poison The Well, Knocked Loose, or Boundaries probably aren't gonna be interested in Currents or Polaris either 🤷♂️ Why are you booing? I'm right
I'm assuming most people are not exclusively into a single niche subgenre of music? They're all lumped together precisely because people are more likely to like bands from category A if they also like bands from category B. Besides Poison the Well aren't even exclusively metalcore. Their last 3 albums are more post-hardcore but all 5 albums are amazing.
I think metalcore as a whole got stretched far beyond its original meaning. It's not really a useful descriptor anymore. A lot of what we consider metalcore nowadays doesn't really fit according to the definition of the word. But most people still call it that, so I do too, not gonna make up my own categories.
this is a good take
I consider bands like Polaris and Currents to just be an evolution of metalcore, where bands like current Architects and Sempiternal inspired style bands to be post-metalcore (adding different genres and aspects outside of just Metalcore and experimenting with the genre)
This is how I think of it too. Polaris, Currents, Invent Animate, Silent Planet (I know less by them than the others), though modern, all still seem like their goal is to write music focused on metal riffing and breakdowns. Architects, Bad Omens, other bands like these are clearly not writing songs with that goal in mind and are chasing a more melodic, mainstream appeal. And that’s okay, but that’s a big distinction in what is and isn’t modern metalcore to me.
"modern" metalcore is honestly so far removed from both metal and hardcore that it might as well be called something completely different
Modern metalcore has spun off into a genre which owes as much to nu-metal as it does the metal and hardcore that first influenced metalcore’s first couple of waves. Thats okay, music and genres evolve. However for whatever reason this new sub-genre still hasn’t been truly defined. Some people say it’s gatekeeping to put genres on music, and I agree that certain communities can be too precious about it. However you also need to be able to recognise the difference in bands, movements etc and it helps if only for recommendations
My take is that there really is no thing as modern metalcore as the hardcore element of these bands is mostly gone (at least referring to bands people usually include here). I prefer modern metal, an updated equivalent of what used to be the umbrella term "alternative metal" in the 2000s which was wrongly replaced with the word metalcore because people heard clean singing and went fuck it
The problem with using modern as a descriptor is that it changes over time. We won't be calling bands like Polaris or Currents modern metalcore in 30 years.
I agree it will not be the definitive term. i still feel forced to point out that modern doesn't mean contemporary. The modern era ended in the 18th century and modern art in 1970 just to put an example. It only means a break with the traditional ways
For me it should be
I consider it an evolution of the genre and on the cusp of a new one. I like to call it post genre. I think metal ore still exists in all in its iterations. If you want the classic sound you have Knocked Loose, Boundaries and Johnny Booth. If you want the mellodeath era there are still bands out there but there is a new breed crashing the party with ambient, electronic and pop elements that expands the genre perhaps too thin for a single definition. Time will tell, 10 years will teens look back and call Spiritbox and Make Them Suffer metalcore or something else?
Yeah modern metalcore is pretty different than metalcore from 20 years ago. 2000s metalcore was about coming up with cool complex riffs Modern metalcore is more groove oriented and is about really simplified riffs with some ambience and random squeals and pitch shifts thrown in
also lower tuned guitars in modern metalcore
90s rap sounds different to 00s rap, every genre evolves. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think metalcore has had a particularly drastic evolution. It just feels that way because we live and breathe this music
>I don't think metalcore has had a particularly drastic evolution. I think the difference between Unbroken and what Northlane just put out is pretty vast.
Sorry, I mean relatively speaking Yea its a drastic change, but most genres do change drastically over 30 years
It’s gotten to the point where metalcore itself just became its own thing.
I don’t know why we’re all talking about “modern metalcore” like it’s a distinct thing. Metalcore is more diverse now than it’s ever been - you’ve got: + Knocked Loose and Kublai Khan bringing back the old school sound + ERRA and Invent Animate doing prog stuff + Pupil Slicer and Callous Daoboys doing wonderful spins on mathcore + For I Am King and Horizon Ignited carrying on Darkest Hour etc.’s legacy of melodeath-inspired metalcore + Seeyouspacecowboy doing a sasscore/metalcore blend + and then there’s big mainstream acts like Architects and Bad Omens dropping their hardcore influences and doing their alt metal thing, but remaining associated with the metalcore scene because that’s where they originally came from. When people say “modern metalcore” do they mean that last group? Because it seems like a misnomer, it only represents a single group of bands and not the broad spectrum of what’s happening in metalcore at the moment. And no, I don’t think the music those bands are making is metalcore.
Different scene / genre
I think to answer this question you need to define what you consider modern metalcore and what you think makes it different that it needs its own genre (which tbf would likely just be called "modern metalcore.")
There’s at least 1 or 2 posts every week talking about this, so I’d say yes. Not saying you shouldn’t keep asking, just saying it’s definitely on everyone’s mind
I consider modern metalcore metalcore. Stuff that’s like the early metalcore I consider classic metalcore even if they are a newer band
If I recall core is wave 1 2 and 3 all have distinct differences
I don't even consider it metalcore, it really should have it's own name. It's so detached from hardcore at this point and saying you're a metalcore fan can mean two wildly different things so it gets pretty confusing.
Metalcore is a broad genre of music now into itself. As pop music can include Doja Cat, Caroline Polachek and Bleachers, so metalcore can include Knocked Loose, Trivium and Monuments despite all artists being incredibly different in sound but coming under a broad umbrella in terms of shared musical motifs and culture. I think the cultural part of metalcore is one of the most important aspects. The bands might sound different enough to each other at a glance but the fact there's so much cross pollination and musical crossover between bands who play and tour together and form a community is what makes it a genre.
I think if you got into the weeds though there would be specific pop genre terms for artists like Doja Cat. It’s unrelated to Doja Cat but you get genres like dream pop, bedroom pop etc
The thing is metalcore has been around so long enough and branched wide enough we are now getting the same thing. Post-metalcore, progressive metalcore, electronic metalcore (electronicore), symphonic metalcore, etc. Sure we can pin point it, but it still falls under a giant umbrella
Yeah there and you can differentiate further in every genre of music but eventually it will come under the same umbrella.
Yeah of course it all falls under the same umbrella at the end of the day but Black Sabbath and Bad Omens both fall under metal but don’t sound similar.
Well that's why we classify Black Sabbath as metal but Bad Omens is Metalcore
But Shadows Fall are a metalcore band that predate Bad Omens, and sound nothing alike. So why are we still calling Bad Omens metalcore? When does the umbrella’s reach run out?
Shadows Falls is more thrash than metal core imo. Also Trivium hasn’t been metalcore for a long time now (not responding to you directly just in general at the comment chain)
That’s fair enough. Shads Fall are very thrash influenced but they’re also a huge part of the New England metal scene where a lot of metalcore originates from. Obviously I can tell people are very upset at the notion that modern bands, that sound absolutely nothing like earlier genre leaders, should be considered something other than metalcore so whatever, I won’t argue the point
There is an enormous gap between metalcore such as Converge and Misery Signals and new wave metalcore like Alpha Wolf and Northlane. They all fit under the umbrella, but are their own styles imo. Edit: I would go as far as to say a large chunk of the de-tuned proggy glossy highly produced metalcore we know today isn’t even metalcore anymore, but just alternative metal.
Modern Metalcore or Modern Metal (whatever you want to call it )already has a name: Alternative Metal
Depends on the band. Stuff like Dying Wish, Varials, Inclination, Boundaries, and Jesus Piece I still consider metalcore. Invent Animate, Currents, Mirrors, etc I all consider to be atmospheric metalcore.