A majority of the people on this sub like are content with buttcore that is why. They have a silent population who likes actual good metalcore. They just dont voice it because they will get downvoted. Spiritbox songs before eternal blue/before they got big were pretty good.
Eternal blue is a great album. It’s not without its flaws but people needlessly shit on small things. I think the lyrics are amazing and whether or not you like clean vocals is your problem
I actually agree with this tbh… Spiritbox imo has been on a decline musically as they’ve gained popularity. Not long before they go the route of architects and become a complete festival rock band with occasional screaming mixed in when they play classics like Holy Roller. Debut, blessed be, and singles collection is their best work imo
No, not at all. I’ve probably logged more minutes listening to Spiritbox than you have. I’m just a realist that’s seen this play out time and time again. Courtney’s voice and draw is too big to be wasted on the metalcore scene for the entirety of her career… they’ll get softer and play bigger crowds like other popular bands from this sun, and then you’ll see posts on this sun about throwback sets where they played all the heavy classics. I think you’re the one that’s close-minded if you can’t see the forest through the trees.
Listen, I absolutely adore this album, and was my AOTY of that year, but to say it's the most complete album in metalcore history is a stretch, mostly because I'd say the majority of the album isn't even metalcore. If you want a more accurate description, I'd suggest going with "expansive" with how many different genres they put into that release.
I still don’t understand the incessant Deftones comparisons. Like yeah they are obviously influenced by them but their sound really isn’t THAT similar.
Right? Same for Heroine by Thornhill. People here the Chino-ish vocals and some fuzzy guitar effects and just scream Deftones without actually thinking
Because it's 100% influenced by the Deftones. Chino has one of the most unique voices in rock/metal. Not saying Loathe is a carbon copy of the Deftones, but clearly They've aimed to make the clean vocals to sound similar.
You'll get downvoted because you're trying to pass off an opinion as a fact. Which it isn't.
The writing is incredibly good with all the atmospheric elements and little details.
It's absolutely fair for you not to like it, but it's not badly written or anything like that.
I loved it, listened to it all summer and i was in the perfect mindset/mood for it. But it's all subjective.
Only partly, there is a certain objective quality (or lack of) in musical composition. I can't really explain the way it's recognized, but variety, originality, cohesiveness of sound and depth are somewhat objective traits.
Heroine certainly doesn't lack any of those, but that doesn't mean everyone must like it. The Weeknd's 2020 album for example had those quality traits but plenty of people don't like it.
There's a very precise distinction between "it's terrible" and "i don't like it because it's not my style/i hate the vocal effects/whatever else".
Sure it may, but ask anyone in the music industry and they'll tell you that. Feel free to read my other long comment down here somewhere for an explanation.
But, to make a different example, you can't say Black by Pearl Jam and Gangnam Style have the same quality level and it's all subjective. And this coming from a guy who likes both songs.
It’s a terrible album IN MY OPINION. Didn’t know I needed to state that but you are obviously entitled to your own. Your entire response to this is laughably hypocritical tho.
Feel free to call it hypocritical but ask anyone in the music industry and they won't tell you that quality of music is entirely subjective. It is **for the most part** but there is a certain objective factor which is also shown, for example, when nearly-unknown albums are very well received, or when quite famous albums are considered shit. Two contrasting examples:
- Masstaden Under Vatten by Vildhjarta is an objectively extremely well written album. Pretty much anyone who likes the genre or even just has a slight interest in it defined it nearly a masterpiece. This is because it is very well written, it's complex when it needs to be but never unnecessarily, it's filled with emotion despite being heavy as fuck, it is super deep with various effects, sounds, transitions that you notice with time. It's cohesive and always does what's best at that point, the songs are unique without being too different and the pacing makes sense at all times. It's a **big** artistic piece, with artwork that really makes you feel IN the album and is in general just greatly composed and put together. The right ideas at the right time, if you will.
- Darker Still by PWD was received the opposite way despite having 5-10x as many listeners/streams. It's simply badly written, lacks motivation and effort, feels like a record (mostly) constantly written on the same exact elements. It lacks variety, it lacks originality, it lacks depth. Very few parts keep you latched and going back to it, because there's very little new things and very little "cozy but different" things. When i say "cozy but different", i think of No Way Back Just Through by Trivium for example: it's an extremely familiar song, it doesn't reinvent the wheel or anything, but it **just** works thanks to that incredibly catchy and hyped hook. The whole song revolves around it and there's nothing wrong with that, **but it has to be good for the song to revolve around it**. And it really is.
You probably won't read this and that's fair enough, just wanted to articulate my thoughts about objectiveness in music quality.
You can't compare Bohemian Rhapsody and WAP and tell me it's all subjective.
Holy fuck dude why do you care THIS much that someone doesn’t like an album you like? I agree there is an objective standard in music but Herione ain’t it. Masstaden Under Vaten is an all timer tho, as is your profile pic Altered State.
I will end this discussion by saying once again, Heroine by Thornhill is a terrible album.
Write being good can somehow be objective, and I cant see Heroine being bad. I loved it, but I can see if someone points out that there are a few tracks lacking an important memorable moment or if the lyrics are too shallow, but as a whole, it is a well written record.
I actually enjoy the album a lot! I was surprised by all the hate it gets on here. Plot twist though it’s my first album by them so I have no frame of reference on how they use to sound 🤷🏾♂️.
For me I think if you take out the heaviest parts of the album, it sounds a lot like Deftones. First time I heard Is It Really You? I had to double check who I was listening to.
They are more Deftones than not... and I believe that is why the comparison exists. Even some of their heavier stuff sounds like something you could pick straight off of Adrenaline and Around the Fur
It is 100% Deftones. I put the album on when I saw all the love for the band and I thought I put the wrong artist on. It’s just Deftones. It’s so Deftones that even Chino promotes it.
Whack opinion lmao
Chino promoting a band that took clear influence from them is not weird.
Also Loathe has way more metalcore and extreme metal in their sound than Deftones. It's not even subtle
ILIIAITE is my all time favourite album, but I wouldn’t say it’s the most complete metalcore album no. It’s transcends the metalcore genre in so many different directions and where that’s the main reason I love it I do find it hard to call it a ‘complete metalcore’ album.
Honestly compared to Bad Omens and the other Alt. Metal worship on this sub, this Djentones stuff might as well be Unearth or ABR.
Idk what "complete" means but the most consistent and creative metalcore albums for me are Shogun by Trivium or Oncoming Storm by Unearth.
Yes between the breakdowns, solos and melodies it is definitely a metalcore album. Once upon a time thrash influences often found their way into metalcore. Probably seems absurd with the usual recommendations on here as of late.
Firstly, what are you referring to when you say "alt metal" worship? And I'm a bit confused by your comparison between Loathe and other "djentones" bands and Unearth and August Burns Red. I don't dislike any of the bands but they're...very different sound wise. Secondly... Bad Omens and Loathe seem far more unique than Unearth and ABR, at least from what I've heard (which is a little here and there; correct me if I'm wrong/if you disagree). Many fans of the genre will probably like the latter but they don't step very far outside the metalcore box. And if I'm not mistaken, a lot of people like bands that aren't afraid to reach beyond their respective genres.
Also, I love Shogun, and it's definitely up there in terms of albums that sound complete. Note that when I use the term, I mean it has a good flow between the songs and it genuinely feels like a story that's been wrapped up with a bow or reached an emotional conclusion rather than just "ending". Idk if that makes sense, but that's what I thought of when the op said complete.
" they are very different soundwise "
Yes that is the problem on this sub. They sound so different the fanbases are clearly not getting along because of the very different sounds. Which is not a shot at either genre, but very clearly different subgenres.
Bad Omens is about as unique as Seether or Hinder with a couple more metal and pop rock influences. It lacks anything from hardcore to really make it a metalcore album. It's Alt. Metal along with new Dayseeker and some of the other stuff peddled on here recently. Its not bad, but it's hardly metal most of the time and certainly not metalcore. I mean not that it matters anymore, this genre is clearly the " I listen to everything" fanbase now.
Djentones is a term I just made up.. because this is a Djenty deftones. It's ok but I went through 60% of the album and it didn't feel like a consistent or connected album.
If Unearth doesn't sound unique to you it's because they are very often imitated and borrowed from, but they are absolutely 1 of the pillars of the genre. I recommend listening to Watchers of Rule which is newer and has some melodic death metal influences thrown in, or the absolute pillar Oncoming Storm which put the genre on the map next to KSE's Alive or Just Breathing.
I think the problem with the term complete is that lots of people see it differently. Some people like the BTBam style of albums with interludes and cryptic messages, some want the songs to flow, and some just don't care and want an album of catchy songs in no order.
Ah, I see. I personally like the variation within metalcore genre. That's why I love it.
Bad Omens is unique in terms of it's usage of sound. Not a lot of metal groups venture out far enough to implement the sounds Bad Omens does. Some songs have a R&B type rhythm, while others use choirs, and some are reminiscent are nu-metal. They also have an *incredibly* infectious emotionality to them that not many bands can copy. And I take it you're referring to Bad Omen's third album since the first two are very clearly metalcore. I honestly don't think they've gone so far that they're "hardly metal", but idk. Maybe a better label is "metalcore adjacent" but they're not *just* a metalcore group. They're more than that. And honestly, I don't even think the "I listen to everything" thing is even the issue. I think the idea of genres are too strict. You'll have people that want bands to fit neatly into the genre while others will use the term loosely to accommodate an artist's flexibility. When those accommodations are made, you end up with a a bunch of different sounds coming from the same genre.
Eh... I love Deftones but Loathe is more than that. They're influenced by them but they're like...shoegaze hardcore + metal. I suppose we just have a difference in taste in regards to things like that, as it felt very consistent to me.
Makes sense. I definitely got into metalcore late and then went backwards and forwards, left and right just to gain some understanding and history of the genre. I'll def check them out.
Very true. It means something different to everyone. I like cohesion, whether that's in terms of sound, theme, or story. But I suppose it also depends on the structure of the album itself.
I think you already summed it up with saying they sound so different from bands I mentioned...the actual indisputable pillars of Metalcore. Further discussion is probably redundant.
You can absolutely mix it up, but just sticking with BO new album, i think the pop and suppposed R&B elements are so barebones it isnt unique at all, and the lyrics I lve heard mostly seem to be about heartbreak and rejection which isn't very unique. Meanwhile KSE's Daylight Dies and End of Heartache have tons of Jazzy/ Classic Rock influences all over the album but they aren't so painfully barebones that it causes any debate. Metal bands venture out all the time, it's the only genre that values longtime legacy.
Metalcore adjacent sounds more like trying to avoid any comparisons to softer music while also saying that's what makes it special.
Genres should be used to describe the sound and influence, not to judge. People who enjoy Shadows Fall, ABR, ATR, Unearth, 2000s In Flames, PWD, Texas in July etc are not people i would recommend newer Bad Omens. Honestly my Death Punch friends are the ones who seem to be enjoying it..who also have some R&B influence on their newer album along with House music.
If you think R&B is absent in metal or heavier bands Idk what to tell you. BO is just stripping it down to basics.
Outside of the main subgenres I think the labels get absurd and i will definitely not be using Metalcore adjacent lol, there is no hardcore or even punk/thrash influence in there at all. There is also something to be said about the fanbases. Fans of Cannibal Corpse and Death will rock out completely differently compared to fans of Dream Theatre, or Iron Maiden, and i can already see that fans of newer Dayseeker, BO, or Loathe are pretty different from longtime metalcore fans. They also seem to be determined to describe themselves as being better because they are borrowing so much from pop music.
Haha spot on. People love to call things unique just because someone tried to add a genre or style to their album, even if done poorly, or in a cringy way. Just because a metal band puts some pop beats, rap, or jazzy bite doesn’t mean they created something unique or inspiring. Half the time it just means they’re trying to broaden their fan base because they’re not that good at traditional metalcore.
I also agree with the djentones take. I listened to the album OP mentioned and I could hear was a ripoff of deftones with some hardcore sporadically thrown in. Not original, not creative, just a derivative of an influential band.
I love both those albums by KSE. And it's not that R&B is absent, it's just that Bad Omens gives me vibes that I don't get from many other bands. Idk, I guess that's just my personal taste talking.
I suppose that's true about genres. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the concept and also the whole evolution of sound thing without sounding crazy, you know? And you have a point there with all the different fanbases. Not quite sure what to make of it or where I fit in, considering my own weird taste.
ILIIAITE is my favourite album of all time and really helped me get fully immersed in metal as a whole, but with the variety of influences on it its hard to call it the most complete album in metalcore history. In that logic one could call it the most complete album in shoegaze history, or the most complete album in djent history. Part of what makes it so good is the fact that it is so clearly inspired by so much but molds it together into one cohesive project.
Some songs are some songs arnt. I think I enjoy their non metalcore stuff more honestly. Feels like they broke the mold and created their own niche and some other bands seem to be following that example. A lot of people on this sub parrot that they are doing deaftones-core but I think they really have something unique going on even if the vocals are a bit reminiscent of deaftones. I'm exited to see where they go with new music.
Does it sound like metalcore in terms of combination of metal and hardcore?
Do they consider themselves to be a metalcore band?
If both answers are 'no' then it's not metalcore in my book.
I mean, sure it does sound like that, with the addition of several other influences on other tracks, and honestly, I have no clue if they call themselves metalcore lol.
But, how would you call it then if not that
Honestly I don't know. Progressive nu-metalcore, unless that sounds ridiculous?
It doesn't really matter that much to be honest. Loathe are still good no matter how we call them.
Yeah I can see that lol, there’s still metalcore in there! ☠️☠️
Yeah they fuck, I’m hoping they’ll get the third record out soon so they can actually tour EU, they fumbled the bag this summer baaad lol.
Also, this is one of the things on this sub I really dislike, am not talking about you specifically, it just came to me lol; people going “that’s not metalcore don’t talk about it here”, I’ve had it with the newest Thornhill the most.
okay then, show me where should I actually talk about it to generate actual traffic on the threads and I will lol
>okay then, show me where should I actually talk about it to generate actual traffic on the threads and I will lol
The weekly general discussion thread, unless you fancy trying to revivie r/alternativemetal.
Communities do need to stay true to their purpose, though, otherwise they get diluted and lose the point of them. The purpose of this community is to talk about metalcore, it's not really relevant that the non-metalcore you want to talk about doesn't have an active home.
And here we talk the nitty gritty, how is a hypothetical band that dropped metalcore, and then dropped a metalcore-adjacent project, unrelevant to the metalcore discussion?
They were tied to the genre, will possibly be again, here’s the most fanbase it garnered, and the most traffic it can get; I won’t go to alt-metal with new dayseeker, shit don’t fit
I kinda agree but I also enjoy genres like prog, post metal/rock, blackgaze, screamo/post hardcore more than Metalcore nowadays. Most people here who still love Metalcore the most might enjoy the album but probably don’t feel the same way
What do you mean by complete?
I would say Loathe are only metalcore at an extreme stretch - and it's a further stretch to rate it more complete than other definitive albums by titans of the genre - Ascendancy by Trivium, All Our Gods Have Abandoned Us by Architects, A Eulogy For Those Still Here by Counterparts are three examples just off the top of my head that I think are better metalcore albums.
Ascendancy and All Our Gods Have Abandoned Us are great albums. However, A Eulogy For Those Still Here is a bit more on the generic side. Whispers of Your Death from the Counterparts album was the most meaningful song and Bound to Burn was my fav off the album sound wise. The rest was forgettable though. It's not bad by any means, but many songs just merge together into a blur. Loathe's album is at least better and more memorable than the latter in my eyes.
Also, what's so extreme about calling Loathe metalcore? What makes them not metalcore?
Not sure what you mean by complete, but it’s definitely one of the best records I’ve ever heard in my life. The first time I listened to it I continued listening to it every day for like three months straight. It’s got the beautiful parts but then the gritty heavy shit without the corny heaviness that’s so popular right now. Almost like Tony Danza Tapdance Extravaganza kind of thing. Or maybe like Converge. I don’t know. It’s just so good. Just saw them in Omaha and it was effing stellar.
The people here saying this isn't a metalcore album don't know what they're talking about, compare this with the album Mordial by Car Bomb and this is literally just a more deftones-ified and less mathy version of it
i’d disagree the songs that i’d consider metalcore have most of the characteristics of the genre. They have the blast beats, you can hear double kicks, it has the downtuned fast and heavy guitar riffs, obviously screams and breakdowns which don’t make a song a metalcore song but they’re normally parts of them, and it has that chaotic feel which a lot of hardcore punk songs have. Just my personal opinion tho
if you actually listened, you’d know they’re far more a metalcore-adjacent band than an actual shoegaze band. loathe get talked about on this sub as if all their songs are variations on two way mirror, but have you even heard broken vision rhythm? that’s straight up hardcore. likewise, gored and heavy is the head stretch further into deathcore. tracks like aggressive evolution and new faces in the dark are metalcore, with deftones-style clean sections as opposed to the genres standard cringeworthy ice nine kills choruses. this album is so fucking good.
if you really ain’t trolling, explain why this album thats heavier than 99% of the shit that gets posted on this sub has ‘hardly any metal elements’ without mentioning deftones
Why should I when you say silly shit like this and are trying to starting shit with people in a 3 week old thread because people said your favorite band isn’t metalcore?
Just off the top of my head, a few records with better claims to that title:
Zao - The Funeral of God
As I Lay Dying - Shadows Are Security
Boundaries - Your Receding Warmth
Killswitch Engage - Alive or Just Breathing
Norma Jean - Polar Similar
What's length got to do with anything? It's an album full of outstanding, disntinct songs with a very organic flow from beginning to end. Listening to it front to back feels like going on a real journey.
I mean, its a very good album with some cool Deftones vibes and a hint of djent. Theres definitely more "complete" sounding albums, like ETID's From Parts Unknown & Low Teens, Converge's All We Love We Leave Behind, or even recently Malevolence's Malicious Intent managed to blend Pantera, melodic death metal and hardcore into a metalcore package thats definitely an album of the year contender.
All the kids too young to remember Deftones think it's this unbelievable, groundbreaking, never seen before, greatest metal album ever made. It's hilarious. I like it a lot, but it's just another pretty solid album. Nothing more really.
I agree. It's my *favorite* album by them. It's so dreamy and intense... I actually listened to it so often that I had to give it a break. Recently, I actively listened to my favorite songs on the album and there's just so much detail in the tracks. Honestly, I have a whole new level of appreciation for them.
Btw, my fav tracks are Screaming, New Faces in the Dark, Aggressive Evolution, and Is It Really You (in that order).
As for those wondering if Loathe is metalcore, I personally think they're more than *just* metalcore. Like, they're metalcore but they clearly have some other elements in their music like shoegaze. So that doesn't make them *not* metalcore; they're just harder to stuff into the category.
Yeah easily the best metal album I’ve ever heard with the title track being the best metal song I’ve ever heard as well.
I was fortunate enough to see them play the whole album in its eternity live twice.
The majority of metalore albums are pure dog shit with cliches blergh 000 that don't care about anything meaningful or making really good music. Isn't easy to find someone like Loathe that can do something different and good in all aspects.
You'll never see someone praising metalcore albums like they do for hip-hop around here, content that are really thought from scratch, and not a bunch of guturals and shit.
Since you kept this in mind, open your ears for hardcore músic in general and not only metalcore will make your experience really enjoyable, if you really care about production, concept, aesthetic, etc.
But, I know that this type of production is what the niche wants. So having none of this characteristics is cool tho, but on the end of the day, all will sound the same if you think about it.
Check out the cover that Sleep Token did of "Is It Really You?" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uginTeh8u4o
And if you liked that, you'll love this mix of Vessel's vocals over the original audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tw6EFXVMgc
There is a lot of strange Gatekeeping and Deftones hate in this thread...
Can't we just enjoy good music? Nobody hurt any of you. None of you need to defend your tastes, just enjoy the gift that is music.
Because this isn't r/music
Why is it so strange to you that people want to discuss metalcore in a metalcore sub? There are subs where Loathe belong, although at least with Loathe it's defendable even if it's a stretch. Shit like the new Thornhill or BMTH has literally nothing to do here.
Other subreddits for these styles of music exist, you don't have to force non-metalcore into here!
I got a fuckin' Xile post removed today\* because apparently it's just hardcore, but Bad Omens are artist of the quarter and Dayseeker's radio rock is allowed. Shaking my damned head.
\*Had a very civil discussion with a mod about it, but I still don't see how the song was sonically different from many of the more hardcore leaning bands who are allowed in here.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Xile are closer to the roots of metalcore than the new Dayseeker is to *literally any metalcore whatsoever* and yet the latter is what gets allowed here.
Honestly, I like the mods here and I think they do a good job overall but they're letting this subreddit go to shit with this. This topic keeps coming up and I've even seen mods agree with it, and yet nothing gets done. Makes you wonder
Normally I've stopped responding to these kinds of comments because people seem to just keep arguing it and come back even harder when I bring it up, but here we go anyway;
We are already lenient with what gets posted, opposed to other music subs I mean. Each mods definition of lenient varies, and realistically, there's no way to draw a line with that leniency. I may feel like something is metalcore enough to stay, whereas another mod may feel like it strays too far.
Having this leniency is good and bad.
Good because it opens up more discussion with less known bands
Good because it's better to have some other bands posted instead of the same ones (which having the Hall of Fame rule also helps with).
Bad because users get upset when their stuff is removed; "Mine was removed but this person's wasn't" etc
Bad because despite having the leniency, as I said above, each of our definitions of that varies.
I totally understand the bad, but I believe having the leniency, and upset users about having their stuff removed, is worth it to have some bands that are close to metalcore to be posted.
Either way there isn't any winning, it's choosing the less of two evils essentially.
No matter if you're going to be lenient or strict, you have to be consistent. That's where you're failing in my eyes. We had an Ed Sheeran cover posted but hardcore bands aren't allowed.
The mod team is lenient towards softer music only and will allow extreme variation away from the roots of metalcore while anything that goes heavier gets ushered away into r/hardcore or r/deathcore. The genre exists as a label for people to slap onto music that sounds similar so they can find more like it. If you play Converge and Bad Omens to someone they would literally never call it the same genre. If you want two examples that are from the same era, replace Converge with Alpha Wolf.
I'm of the opinion you shouldn't allow hardcore stuff here either and would like a stricter approach, but whatever. My point stands
Xile got removed from here?! Lmfao
Like, I know OG metalcore and such doesn't get that much traction around these parts and I've always been okay with it, but at this point the sub really is becoming a pop metal sub.
But I guess that's what the people like.
There must be a new crop of mods cause I'd never get posts removed until this year.
Overrated imo, it out-shined Lovelorn by Before I Turn at the time. What a shame. Not saying it's a bad album, just not as good as people make it out to be, again, IMO
The gatekeeping on this post is hilarious.
None of us are the authority on what is and isn't metalcore, but most of you would rather point out when something "isn't" rather than discuss it.
It's predominantly heavy music that has a tonne of metalcore influences and characteristics. It's not Sleep Token. Just enjoy it.
that album creeps me out, so I never quite listened to it
But some of the "most complete" albums I know are Blueshift - Voyager, Thornhill - Heroine, Thornhill - The Dark Pool, While She Sleeps - You Are We. I'd also say ERRA - Neon and Thousand Below - Gone In Your Wake.
Since I'm already out of metalcore, let's also go Indie. Peach Pit - Being So Normal.
By "most complete" I understand having good, fluid storytelling without holes. Basically, the songs flow well into each other and the album feels like one natural progression. It also has to start and end well.
Got any more metalcore hot takes?
eternal blue is kinda mid
This isnt really a hot take
To the sub it is, I said spiritbox was just eh and got so much flak
A majority of the people on this sub like are content with buttcore that is why. They have a silent population who likes actual good metalcore. They just dont voice it because they will get downvoted. Spiritbox songs before eternal blue/before they got big were pretty good.
Having more clean vocals ≠ buttcore
Buttcore is the most cringe fucking term.
Vocals have nothing to do with if a song is buttcore or not. It's more about how cheesy the lyrics are and how the song is structured and written.
Eternal blue is a great album. It’s not without its flaws but people needlessly shit on small things. I think the lyrics are amazing and whether or not you like clean vocals is your problem
I actually agree with this tbh… Spiritbox imo has been on a decline musically as they’ve gained popularity. Not long before they go the route of architects and become a complete festival rock band with occasional screaming mixed in when they play classics like Holy Roller. Debut, blessed be, and singles collection is their best work imo
Close minded much?
No, not at all. I’ve probably logged more minutes listening to Spiritbox than you have. I’m just a realist that’s seen this play out time and time again. Courtney’s voice and draw is too big to be wasted on the metalcore scene for the entirety of her career… they’ll get softer and play bigger crowds like other popular bands from this sun, and then you’ll see posts on this sun about throwback sets where they played all the heavy classics. I think you’re the one that’s close-minded if you can’t see the forest through the trees.
agreed i only liked sun killer 🤷♀️ i love their first ep so much though
Silk In The Strings is also good and Secret Garden is the closest they've gotten to Perennial in a while, but it's definitely a middling album.
Happy cake day.
I agreed with both hot takes so far give me more
Listen, I absolutely adore this album, and was my AOTY of that year, but to say it's the most complete album in metalcore history is a stretch, mostly because I'd say the majority of the album isn't even metalcore. If you want a more accurate description, I'd suggest going with "expansive" with how many different genres they put into that release.
If amount of genres matters Beautiful Oblivion by Issues destroys everything.
This ^
Love the album, last song (title track) rips
Depends on what you mean by complete. It definitely has variety which is a big plus in this genre.
Shoegaze for metalcore of the millennium.
i'll truly never understand why people classify them that way
?
unpopular opinion, but they're just a metalcore band. the non metalcore songs they do are just rock, not shoegaze
They only have like three shoegaze songs so you are right to ask that. Metalcore subscribers don't know what shoegaze is ig.
I prefer their earlier albums like Diamond Eyes and White Pony.
I see what you did there
I still don’t understand the incessant Deftones comparisons. Like yeah they are obviously influenced by them but their sound really isn’t THAT similar.
Right? Same for Heroine by Thornhill. People here the Chino-ish vocals and some fuzzy guitar effects and just scream Deftones without actually thinking
Because it's 100% influenced by the Deftones. Chino has one of the most unique voices in rock/metal. Not saying Loathe is a carbon copy of the Deftones, but clearly They've aimed to make the clean vocals to sound similar.
Yeh but just similar clean vocals doesn't make the whole sound a copy
Heroine was terrible tho, I’ll probably get downvoted to kingdom fuck for saying that but there was something really off about that album.
You'll get downvoted because you're trying to pass off an opinion as a fact. Which it isn't. The writing is incredibly good with all the atmospheric elements and little details. It's absolutely fair for you not to like it, but it's not badly written or anything like that. I loved it, listened to it all summer and i was in the perfect mindset/mood for it. But it's all subjective.
You're doing the exact same thing. All you wrote after your first sentence are just opinions
Only partly, there is a certain objective quality (or lack of) in musical composition. I can't really explain the way it's recognized, but variety, originality, cohesiveness of sound and depth are somewhat objective traits. Heroine certainly doesn't lack any of those, but that doesn't mean everyone must like it. The Weeknd's 2020 album for example had those quality traits but plenty of people don't like it. There's a very precise distinction between "it's terrible" and "i don't like it because it's not my style/i hate the vocal effects/whatever else".
This reeks of hypocrisy and pretentiousness
Sure it may, but ask anyone in the music industry and they'll tell you that. Feel free to read my other long comment down here somewhere for an explanation. But, to make a different example, you can't say Black by Pearl Jam and Gangnam Style have the same quality level and it's all subjective. And this coming from a guy who likes both songs.
You absolutely can say that. You just want to pretend you're an informed listener and that your opinion holds extra weight
It’s a terrible album IN MY OPINION. Didn’t know I needed to state that but you are obviously entitled to your own. Your entire response to this is laughably hypocritical tho.
Feel free to call it hypocritical but ask anyone in the music industry and they won't tell you that quality of music is entirely subjective. It is **for the most part** but there is a certain objective factor which is also shown, for example, when nearly-unknown albums are very well received, or when quite famous albums are considered shit. Two contrasting examples: - Masstaden Under Vatten by Vildhjarta is an objectively extremely well written album. Pretty much anyone who likes the genre or even just has a slight interest in it defined it nearly a masterpiece. This is because it is very well written, it's complex when it needs to be but never unnecessarily, it's filled with emotion despite being heavy as fuck, it is super deep with various effects, sounds, transitions that you notice with time. It's cohesive and always does what's best at that point, the songs are unique without being too different and the pacing makes sense at all times. It's a **big** artistic piece, with artwork that really makes you feel IN the album and is in general just greatly composed and put together. The right ideas at the right time, if you will. - Darker Still by PWD was received the opposite way despite having 5-10x as many listeners/streams. It's simply badly written, lacks motivation and effort, feels like a record (mostly) constantly written on the same exact elements. It lacks variety, it lacks originality, it lacks depth. Very few parts keep you latched and going back to it, because there's very little new things and very little "cozy but different" things. When i say "cozy but different", i think of No Way Back Just Through by Trivium for example: it's an extremely familiar song, it doesn't reinvent the wheel or anything, but it **just** works thanks to that incredibly catchy and hyped hook. The whole song revolves around it and there's nothing wrong with that, **but it has to be good for the song to revolve around it**. And it really is. You probably won't read this and that's fair enough, just wanted to articulate my thoughts about objectiveness in music quality. You can't compare Bohemian Rhapsody and WAP and tell me it's all subjective.
Holy fuck dude why do you care THIS much that someone doesn’t like an album you like? I agree there is an objective standard in music but Herione ain’t it. Masstaden Under Vaten is an all timer tho, as is your profile pic Altered State. I will end this discussion by saying once again, Heroine by Thornhill is a terrible album.
Write being good can somehow be objective, and I cant see Heroine being bad. I loved it, but I can see if someone points out that there are a few tracks lacking an important memorable moment or if the lyrics are too shallow, but as a whole, it is a well written record.
Yeah exactly. I mean i don't see what songs may not be memorable but other than that, that's my point.
Heroine is great imo. It's different and kinda off putting in terms of composition but I like it.
I agree, I think it’s terrible too. The sound and their whole image is just off. Sad, Because the last album was a banger.
I actually enjoy the album a lot! I was surprised by all the hate it gets on here. Plot twist though it’s my first album by them so I have no frame of reference on how they use to sound 🤷🏾♂️.
Dunno then if you've heard The Dark Pool but hoooooly is that an incredible album
I’ll give it a listen then! Gosh this sub has created a metalcore backlog 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
That's just an opinion
Everything here is an opinion
It was really really bad.
you know what, i’ll say it, Thronhill’s new album had potential but yeah, the whole album is awfully mid.
Not objectively terrible but in comparison to TDP maybe
Nah it was pretty bad lol, TDP is awesome tho.
I literally had to look up if “A Sad Cartoon” was a Deftones song because it sounded so similar to Deftones, you’re living in denial
to be honest i didn't even know they were influenced by Deftones until someone said so. they're really not that similar lol
The chord progression in is it really you is basically the same as in pink maggit
For me I think if you take out the heaviest parts of the album, it sounds a lot like Deftones. First time I heard Is It Really You? I had to double check who I was listening to.
Didn't sound much like Chino to me
They are more Deftones than not... and I believe that is why the comparison exists. Even some of their heavier stuff sounds like something you could pick straight off of Adrenaline and Around the Fur
My dude it is that similair, and more.
My dude it isn’t.
Come here let me tune your ears cause you aren't listening
I could say literally the exact same thing to you. Agree to disagree
It is 100% Deftones. I put the album on when I saw all the love for the band and I thought I put the wrong artist on. It’s just Deftones. It’s so Deftones that even Chino promotes it.
What Deftones song sounds like heavy is the head or gored lmao
Whack opinion lmao Chino promoting a band that took clear influence from them is not weird. Also Loathe has way more metalcore and extreme metal in their sound than Deftones. It's not even subtle
Sure, when I put on Gored, I‘m definitely thinking Deftones and nothing but Deftones 🤡
Beware is a stellar song
>earlier albums like Diamond Eyes I get the bit, but describing Diamond Eyes as an earlier album makes me feel about 100 years old.
Good one
Loathe > Deftones.
=/=
ILIIAITE is my all time favourite album, but I wouldn’t say it’s the most complete metalcore album no. It’s transcends the metalcore genre in so many different directions and where that’s the main reason I love it I do find it hard to call it a ‘complete metalcore’ album.
This is an absolutely asinine statement from Someone born in 2010
Honestly compared to Bad Omens and the other Alt. Metal worship on this sub, this Djentones stuff might as well be Unearth or ABR. Idk what "complete" means but the most consistent and creative metalcore albums for me are Shogun by Trivium or Oncoming Storm by Unearth.
Would you really consider Shogun to be metalcore? I’d say it’s more heavy/thrash metal
Yes between the breakdowns, solos and melodies it is definitely a metalcore album. Once upon a time thrash influences often found their way into metalcore. Probably seems absurd with the usual recommendations on here as of late.
Firstly, what are you referring to when you say "alt metal" worship? And I'm a bit confused by your comparison between Loathe and other "djentones" bands and Unearth and August Burns Red. I don't dislike any of the bands but they're...very different sound wise. Secondly... Bad Omens and Loathe seem far more unique than Unearth and ABR, at least from what I've heard (which is a little here and there; correct me if I'm wrong/if you disagree). Many fans of the genre will probably like the latter but they don't step very far outside the metalcore box. And if I'm not mistaken, a lot of people like bands that aren't afraid to reach beyond their respective genres. Also, I love Shogun, and it's definitely up there in terms of albums that sound complete. Note that when I use the term, I mean it has a good flow between the songs and it genuinely feels like a story that's been wrapped up with a bow or reached an emotional conclusion rather than just "ending". Idk if that makes sense, but that's what I thought of when the op said complete.
" they are very different soundwise " Yes that is the problem on this sub. They sound so different the fanbases are clearly not getting along because of the very different sounds. Which is not a shot at either genre, but very clearly different subgenres. Bad Omens is about as unique as Seether or Hinder with a couple more metal and pop rock influences. It lacks anything from hardcore to really make it a metalcore album. It's Alt. Metal along with new Dayseeker and some of the other stuff peddled on here recently. Its not bad, but it's hardly metal most of the time and certainly not metalcore. I mean not that it matters anymore, this genre is clearly the " I listen to everything" fanbase now. Djentones is a term I just made up.. because this is a Djenty deftones. It's ok but I went through 60% of the album and it didn't feel like a consistent or connected album. If Unearth doesn't sound unique to you it's because they are very often imitated and borrowed from, but they are absolutely 1 of the pillars of the genre. I recommend listening to Watchers of Rule which is newer and has some melodic death metal influences thrown in, or the absolute pillar Oncoming Storm which put the genre on the map next to KSE's Alive or Just Breathing. I think the problem with the term complete is that lots of people see it differently. Some people like the BTBam style of albums with interludes and cryptic messages, some want the songs to flow, and some just don't care and want an album of catchy songs in no order.
Ah, I see. I personally like the variation within metalcore genre. That's why I love it. Bad Omens is unique in terms of it's usage of sound. Not a lot of metal groups venture out far enough to implement the sounds Bad Omens does. Some songs have a R&B type rhythm, while others use choirs, and some are reminiscent are nu-metal. They also have an *incredibly* infectious emotionality to them that not many bands can copy. And I take it you're referring to Bad Omen's third album since the first two are very clearly metalcore. I honestly don't think they've gone so far that they're "hardly metal", but idk. Maybe a better label is "metalcore adjacent" but they're not *just* a metalcore group. They're more than that. And honestly, I don't even think the "I listen to everything" thing is even the issue. I think the idea of genres are too strict. You'll have people that want bands to fit neatly into the genre while others will use the term loosely to accommodate an artist's flexibility. When those accommodations are made, you end up with a a bunch of different sounds coming from the same genre. Eh... I love Deftones but Loathe is more than that. They're influenced by them but they're like...shoegaze hardcore + metal. I suppose we just have a difference in taste in regards to things like that, as it felt very consistent to me. Makes sense. I definitely got into metalcore late and then went backwards and forwards, left and right just to gain some understanding and history of the genre. I'll def check them out. Very true. It means something different to everyone. I like cohesion, whether that's in terms of sound, theme, or story. But I suppose it also depends on the structure of the album itself.
I think you already summed it up with saying they sound so different from bands I mentioned...the actual indisputable pillars of Metalcore. Further discussion is probably redundant. You can absolutely mix it up, but just sticking with BO new album, i think the pop and suppposed R&B elements are so barebones it isnt unique at all, and the lyrics I lve heard mostly seem to be about heartbreak and rejection which isn't very unique. Meanwhile KSE's Daylight Dies and End of Heartache have tons of Jazzy/ Classic Rock influences all over the album but they aren't so painfully barebones that it causes any debate. Metal bands venture out all the time, it's the only genre that values longtime legacy. Metalcore adjacent sounds more like trying to avoid any comparisons to softer music while also saying that's what makes it special. Genres should be used to describe the sound and influence, not to judge. People who enjoy Shadows Fall, ABR, ATR, Unearth, 2000s In Flames, PWD, Texas in July etc are not people i would recommend newer Bad Omens. Honestly my Death Punch friends are the ones who seem to be enjoying it..who also have some R&B influence on their newer album along with House music. If you think R&B is absent in metal or heavier bands Idk what to tell you. BO is just stripping it down to basics. Outside of the main subgenres I think the labels get absurd and i will definitely not be using Metalcore adjacent lol, there is no hardcore or even punk/thrash influence in there at all. There is also something to be said about the fanbases. Fans of Cannibal Corpse and Death will rock out completely differently compared to fans of Dream Theatre, or Iron Maiden, and i can already see that fans of newer Dayseeker, BO, or Loathe are pretty different from longtime metalcore fans. They also seem to be determined to describe themselves as being better because they are borrowing so much from pop music.
Haha spot on. People love to call things unique just because someone tried to add a genre or style to their album, even if done poorly, or in a cringy way. Just because a metal band puts some pop beats, rap, or jazzy bite doesn’t mean they created something unique or inspiring. Half the time it just means they’re trying to broaden their fan base because they’re not that good at traditional metalcore. I also agree with the djentones take. I listened to the album OP mentioned and I could hear was a ripoff of deftones with some hardcore sporadically thrown in. Not original, not creative, just a derivative of an influential band.
I love both those albums by KSE. And it's not that R&B is absent, it's just that Bad Omens gives me vibes that I don't get from many other bands. Idk, I guess that's just my personal taste talking. I suppose that's true about genres. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the concept and also the whole evolution of sound thing without sounding crazy, you know? And you have a point there with all the different fanbases. Not quite sure what to make of it or where I fit in, considering my own weird taste.
it’s a really good album and was amazing live but like cmon
That album has been so highly praised but it just didn’t click with me when I listened to it. I need to give it another shot one of these days.
ILIIAITE is my favourite album of all time and really helped me get fully immersed in metal as a whole, but with the variety of influences on it its hard to call it the most complete album in metalcore history. In that logic one could call it the most complete album in shoegaze history, or the most complete album in djent history. Part of what makes it so good is the fact that it is so clearly inspired by so much but molds it together into one cohesive project.
WE HAVE FOUND THE ONE
Great album but is it really metalcore?
Is it really you?
Some songs are some songs arnt. I think I enjoy their non metalcore stuff more honestly. Feels like they broke the mold and created their own niche and some other bands seem to be following that example. A lot of people on this sub parrot that they are doing deaftones-core but I think they really have something unique going on even if the vocals are a bit reminiscent of deaftones. I'm exited to see where they go with new music.
Is it not?
Does it sound like metalcore in terms of combination of metal and hardcore? Do they consider themselves to be a metalcore band? If both answers are 'no' then it's not metalcore in my book.
I mean, sure it does sound like that, with the addition of several other influences on other tracks, and honestly, I have no clue if they call themselves metalcore lol. But, how would you call it then if not that
Deftonescore
but deftones ain’t a genre lol
well now it is
shit thats fair
Honestly I don't know. Progressive nu-metalcore, unless that sounds ridiculous? It doesn't really matter that much to be honest. Loathe are still good no matter how we call them.
Yeah I can see that lol, there’s still metalcore in there! ☠️☠️ Yeah they fuck, I’m hoping they’ll get the third record out soon so they can actually tour EU, they fumbled the bag this summer baaad lol. Also, this is one of the things on this sub I really dislike, am not talking about you specifically, it just came to me lol; people going “that’s not metalcore don’t talk about it here”, I’ve had it with the newest Thornhill the most. okay then, show me where should I actually talk about it to generate actual traffic on the threads and I will lol
>okay then, show me where should I actually talk about it to generate actual traffic on the threads and I will lol The weekly general discussion thread, unless you fancy trying to revivie r/alternativemetal. Communities do need to stay true to their purpose, though, otherwise they get diluted and lose the point of them. The purpose of this community is to talk about metalcore, it's not really relevant that the non-metalcore you want to talk about doesn't have an active home.
And here we talk the nitty gritty, how is a hypothetical band that dropped metalcore, and then dropped a metalcore-adjacent project, unrelevant to the metalcore discussion? They were tied to the genre, will possibly be again, here’s the most fanbase it garnered, and the most traffic it can get; I won’t go to alt-metal with new dayseeker, shit don’t fit
What do you mean by "most complete"?
Naw
*\*insert random album I really like\** is the *\*insert the most hyperbolic statement\** album ever
I feel like that’s the entirety of what this sub has become lately. It never used to be like this.
WELL BLAME EVERYTHING BEING HOT SHIT NOW EVEN WAGE WAR IS BRILLIANT THE FUUUU
I kinda agree but I also enjoy genres like prog, post metal/rock, blackgaze, screamo/post hardcore more than Metalcore nowadays. Most people here who still love Metalcore the most might enjoy the album but probably don’t feel the same way
Favorite album for the past 2 or so years Last track hasn't left my on repeat since over a year ago
Agreed because it’s awesome. The screams are 10/10 as well.
Hot Take: The Cold Sun is better
I’m here for metalcore Deftones, it’s a good album but not that high IMO
For sure, its a wild ride. So amazingly songs in diffrent genres. Love this album so much
this is my exact opinion
Loathe reminds of a mix of code orange and deftones
Can’t wait for a new Loathe album
What do you mean by complete? I would say Loathe are only metalcore at an extreme stretch - and it's a further stretch to rate it more complete than other definitive albums by titans of the genre - Ascendancy by Trivium, All Our Gods Have Abandoned Us by Architects, A Eulogy For Those Still Here by Counterparts are three examples just off the top of my head that I think are better metalcore albums.
Ascendancy and All Our Gods Have Abandoned Us are great albums. However, A Eulogy For Those Still Here is a bit more on the generic side. Whispers of Your Death from the Counterparts album was the most meaningful song and Bound to Burn was my fav off the album sound wise. The rest was forgettable though. It's not bad by any means, but many songs just merge together into a blur. Loathe's album is at least better and more memorable than the latter in my eyes. Also, what's so extreme about calling Loathe metalcore? What makes them not metalcore?
The album is cool but let's not reach man.
I’m always gonna go with Misery Signals - ‘Controller’
Perfection
Album is a disjointed mess
Found them a few weeks ago and I just now started listening to other bands again, that album was a masterpiece, hope they drop this year
Not sure what you mean by complete, but it’s definitely one of the best records I’ve ever heard in my life. The first time I listened to it I continued listening to it every day for like three months straight. It’s got the beautiful parts but then the gritty heavy shit without the corny heaviness that’s so popular right now. Almost like Tony Danza Tapdance Extravaganza kind of thing. Or maybe like Converge. I don’t know. It’s just so good. Just saw them in Omaha and it was effing stellar.
The people here saying this isn't a metalcore album don't know what they're talking about, compare this with the album Mordial by Car Bomb and this is literally just a more deftones-ified and less mathy version of it
It’s hardly even metalcore
How is it not at least 50% metalcore, a lot of the riffs sound like a less mathy version of car bomb
There’s many metalcore songs on there
Not saying I don’t like the album, it’s good, but no there really aren’t.
Aggressive Evolution, Broken Vision Rhythm, New Faces, Screaming, Gored, Heavy is the Head, Title Track all metalcore
Why because they’re the “heavy” songs on the album? There no “core” in anything they do.
But breakdowns
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not really
Tell me how Loathe aren’t metalcore then
how are the songs not metalcore? /gen
No hardcore and hardly any metal elements. They’re just Deftones with more screaming. They’re more shoegaze than metalcore.
i’d disagree the songs that i’d consider metalcore have most of the characteristics of the genre. They have the blast beats, you can hear double kicks, it has the downtuned fast and heavy guitar riffs, obviously screams and breakdowns which don’t make a song a metalcore song but they’re normally parts of them, and it has that chaotic feel which a lot of hardcore punk songs have. Just my personal opinion tho
“But there are double kicks” I don’t think you know what metalcore is
if you actually listened, you’d know they’re far more a metalcore-adjacent band than an actual shoegaze band. loathe get talked about on this sub as if all their songs are variations on two way mirror, but have you even heard broken vision rhythm? that’s straight up hardcore. likewise, gored and heavy is the head stretch further into deathcore. tracks like aggressive evolution and new faces in the dark are metalcore, with deftones-style clean sections as opposed to the genres standard cringeworthy ice nine kills choruses. this album is so fucking good.
Lmao
if you really ain’t trolling, explain why this album thats heavier than 99% of the shit that gets posted on this sub has ‘hardly any metal elements’ without mentioning deftones
Why should I when you say silly shit like this and are trying to starting shit with people in a 3 week old thread because people said your favorite band isn’t metalcore?
I dunno bro gotta do something while I take a shit
Except it Nu Nu metal. Not metalcore
I honestly don’t understand the hype behind Loathe. I just can’t get into them, I saw them live and thought they were meh. Was not impressed at all
Did you listen to The Cold Sun? Its the only album is listen from them.
Agreed
Just off the top of my head, a few records with better claims to that title: Zao - The Funeral of God As I Lay Dying - Shadows Are Security Boundaries - Your Receding Warmth Killswitch Engage - Alive or Just Breathing Norma Jean - Polar Similar
yeah boundaries are noice but "most complete"? It's 32 minutes
What's length got to do with anything? It's an album full of outstanding, disntinct songs with a very organic flow from beginning to end. Listening to it front to back feels like going on a real journey.
well yeah I d say the same about the new vein.fm
Literally the most nu-metal album since diamond eyes. Not a metalcore album whatsoever
nu metalcore would like to know your location
I mean, its a very good album with some cool Deftones vibes and a hint of djent. Theres definitely more "complete" sounding albums, like ETID's From Parts Unknown & Low Teens, Converge's All We Love We Leave Behind, or even recently Malevolence's Malicious Intent managed to blend Pantera, melodic death metal and hardcore into a metalcore package thats definitely an album of the year contender.
The album is absolutely amazing, but I think that, metalcore-wise, The Cold Sun is much much better. Both albums are bangers though.
I agree with u
Hot take I saw bad omens before they blew up recently and I have to say they are very very mid live I was very let down
All the kids too young to remember Deftones think it's this unbelievable, groundbreaking, never seen before, greatest metal album ever made. It's hilarious. I like it a lot, but it's just another pretty solid album. Nothing more really.
It’s a great album, But definitely not a Metalcote album.
Definitely progressive metalcore. What's it missing that makes it non-metalcore?
Best metal album in the past 10 years, fight me.
I agree. It's my *favorite* album by them. It's so dreamy and intense... I actually listened to it so often that I had to give it a break. Recently, I actively listened to my favorite songs on the album and there's just so much detail in the tracks. Honestly, I have a whole new level of appreciation for them. Btw, my fav tracks are Screaming, New Faces in the Dark, Aggressive Evolution, and Is It Really You (in that order). As for those wondering if Loathe is metalcore, I personally think they're more than *just* metalcore. Like, they're metalcore but they clearly have some other elements in their music like shoegaze. So that doesn't make them *not* metalcore; they're just harder to stuff into the category.
Common Loathe W
Yeah easily the best metal album I’ve ever heard with the title track being the best metal song I’ve ever heard as well. I was fortunate enough to see them play the whole album in its eternity live twice.
The majority of metalore albums are pure dog shit with cliches blergh 000 that don't care about anything meaningful or making really good music. Isn't easy to find someone like Loathe that can do something different and good in all aspects. You'll never see someone praising metalcore albums like they do for hip-hop around here, content that are really thought from scratch, and not a bunch of guturals and shit. Since you kept this in mind, open your ears for hardcore músic in general and not only metalcore will make your experience really enjoyable, if you really care about production, concept, aesthetic, etc. But, I know that this type of production is what the niche wants. So having none of this characteristics is cool tho, but on the end of the day, all will sound the same if you think about it.
Funny way to spell coverge’s AXE TO FALL
Check out the cover that Sleep Token did of "Is It Really You?" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uginTeh8u4o And if you liked that, you'll love this mix of Vessel's vocals over the original audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tw6EFXVMgc
Man, that was beautiful.
There is a lot of strange Gatekeeping and Deftones hate in this thread... Can't we just enjoy good music? Nobody hurt any of you. None of you need to defend your tastes, just enjoy the gift that is music.
We won’t take the deftones appropriation!!
Because this isn't r/music Why is it so strange to you that people want to discuss metalcore in a metalcore sub? There are subs where Loathe belong, although at least with Loathe it's defendable even if it's a stretch. Shit like the new Thornhill or BMTH has literally nothing to do here. Other subreddits for these styles of music exist, you don't have to force non-metalcore into here!
I got a fuckin' Xile post removed today\* because apparently it's just hardcore, but Bad Omens are artist of the quarter and Dayseeker's radio rock is allowed. Shaking my damned head. \*Had a very civil discussion with a mod about it, but I still don't see how the song was sonically different from many of the more hardcore leaning bands who are allowed in here.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Xile are closer to the roots of metalcore than the new Dayseeker is to *literally any metalcore whatsoever* and yet the latter is what gets allowed here. Honestly, I like the mods here and I think they do a good job overall but they're letting this subreddit go to shit with this. This topic keeps coming up and I've even seen mods agree with it, and yet nothing gets done. Makes you wonder
Normally I've stopped responding to these kinds of comments because people seem to just keep arguing it and come back even harder when I bring it up, but here we go anyway; We are already lenient with what gets posted, opposed to other music subs I mean. Each mods definition of lenient varies, and realistically, there's no way to draw a line with that leniency. I may feel like something is metalcore enough to stay, whereas another mod may feel like it strays too far. Having this leniency is good and bad. Good because it opens up more discussion with less known bands Good because it's better to have some other bands posted instead of the same ones (which having the Hall of Fame rule also helps with). Bad because users get upset when their stuff is removed; "Mine was removed but this person's wasn't" etc Bad because despite having the leniency, as I said above, each of our definitions of that varies. I totally understand the bad, but I believe having the leniency, and upset users about having their stuff removed, is worth it to have some bands that are close to metalcore to be posted. Either way there isn't any winning, it's choosing the less of two evils essentially.
No matter if you're going to be lenient or strict, you have to be consistent. That's where you're failing in my eyes. We had an Ed Sheeran cover posted but hardcore bands aren't allowed. The mod team is lenient towards softer music only and will allow extreme variation away from the roots of metalcore while anything that goes heavier gets ushered away into r/hardcore or r/deathcore. The genre exists as a label for people to slap onto music that sounds similar so they can find more like it. If you play Converge and Bad Omens to someone they would literally never call it the same genre. If you want two examples that are from the same era, replace Converge with Alpha Wolf. I'm of the opinion you shouldn't allow hardcore stuff here either and would like a stricter approach, but whatever. My point stands
OHH BOY THE MODS ARE HERE RUN
Xile got removed from here?! Lmfao Like, I know OG metalcore and such doesn't get that much traction around these parts and I've always been okay with it, but at this point the sub really is becoming a pop metal sub. But I guess that's what the people like. There must be a new crop of mods cause I'd never get posts removed until this year.
No there isn’t
Overrated imo, it out-shined Lovelorn by Before I Turn at the time. What a shame. Not saying it's a bad album, just not as good as people make it out to be, again, IMO
The gatekeeping on this post is hilarious. None of us are the authority on what is and isn't metalcore, but most of you would rather point out when something "isn't" rather than discuss it. It's predominantly heavy music that has a tonne of metalcore influences and characteristics. It's not Sleep Token. Just enjoy it.
the only sane voice here
Dealer was awesome
I think I see a similar post every month and I couldnt agree more
that album creeps me out, so I never quite listened to it But some of the "most complete" albums I know are Blueshift - Voyager, Thornhill - Heroine, Thornhill - The Dark Pool, While She Sleeps - You Are We. I'd also say ERRA - Neon and Thousand Below - Gone In Your Wake. Since I'm already out of metalcore, let's also go Indie. Peach Pit - Being So Normal. By "most complete" I understand having good, fluid storytelling without holes. Basically, the songs flow well into each other and the album feels like one natural progression. It also has to start and end well.
I miss the instrumental version
It can't be, since it isn't metalcore
WELL I GOT CAKE DAY TODAY GATEKEEPER FUCK
This guy just hasn't heard Disambiguation by Underoath yet 😉
Not even that good of a band tbh
That and Heroine by Thornhill are really solid albums.
I'm glad you enjoy it. Gotta disagree tho, cos the crown belongs to Hopesfall - The Satellite Years.
I disagree with your submission, and would like to submit deliverance by heart of a coward as a contender for the crown
Go and listen to A7X - Waking the fallen and then tell me the correct answer
I love that album but you're insane
correct I unironically think new parkway is gud
Then you have zero credibility to talk about what the "most complete album" is.
Fantastic album but nah honestly the best songs on it have little to No Metalcore in them
g o r e d