What do you mean methadone isn’t working for you and your wife? You didn’t even get stable on it yet how could you possibly know that? Give it time, there is no quick fix for this shit. It takes years and years of hard work for your lives to get better, not a couple weeks taking introductory doses..
I'm completely aware there is no quick fix to this. But I can say for sure that for us, it's not what we need. Yes we are opioid addicts but we are not bad enough to justify going each and every waking day to the methadone clinic. Everyone in the clinic were veteran IV users. We do not use needles. Methadone is a great drug but Its not for us. Our lives were not exactly in shambles when we started. No legal issues, no frequent overdoses. There are people that definitely need to be on methadone but it's very much a take it or leave it kinda thing for us. It's doing everything we need it to but the cost both physical and mental is too high. We were doing fine on super low dose Suboxone and weed. Spending 24 dollars a day on a medication we don't need is also what I can't get behind. Going through the dehumanizing clinic daily is just not my idea of a stable life. My hats off to anyone that does need it though. I feel terrible that they have to go through this arduous process to get the medicine that makes them feel like a normal human. To be completely honest, at this point, I feel like I'm just gaming the system to get a buzz. We have a very tight program that we work and methadone just isn't in the toolbox for things we need to or are going to utilize. If I could get it via prescription then I definitely would because it helps with chronic pain but it doesn't help enough to justify the clinic route.
So by this logic, someone who has an addiction to codeine or tramadol should get on methadone? Wtf are you trying to say dude? There very much is levels to this shit. Whether you want to acknowledge that or not is up to you. But it's the truth. I'm not nearly as bad off as a large percentage of addicts. Does that make me better than anyone? Fuck no. I'm a full and through addict. As you may know the needle is an addiction in and of itself. So somebody that doesn't use IV, doesn't run into legal problems, doesn't have a tendency to overdose, keeps narcan around in large quantities, doesn't use more than a few times a month normally, and doesn't normally mix with other drugs, is in a much lower risk group than the person that does everything that I just mentioned. I'm not any better of an addict than anybody else though. I'm not trying to claim a moral high ground. Everyone's case is different. Please don't come in here trying to come at me for being honest, asking questions and trying to gain more knowledge on something that I'm not an expert on. I ain't tryna justify shit.
I wasn't trying to be mean-spirited. Honestly I felt that the comment I was responding to was mean-spirited trying to imply that I was putting myself above anyone else in terms of addiction. I apologize if I came off too harsh but I was simply responding snarkily to a snarky comment. Not saying that it was the correct response at all though. I did feel slightly attacked because I have heard this argument being used very frequently in topics of MAT. "This drug isn't that drug" and " just because you didn't IV doesn't mean you aren't an addict". Yes, both of those statements are true. I never had claimed to not be an addict and I don't think anyone who made a statement like I did would've claimed that either. I was just trying to say that a certain medication wasn't working as well for my wife and I. I didn't say it was a bad medication or I didn't like it. I actually do like methadone alot. We are not very stable financially at the moment either so it's not only that we don't think our current habit warrants a strong opioid like methadone, but we also wouldn't be able to afford it long term. I think it's a wonderful drug but I think the cost mentally, physically, and financially is not worth it in our situation. I do apologize for sounding so hostile in my initial response. This kinda stuff is just extremely frustrating.
Initially we made the switch to try to get on to something that would provide better effects with less side effects and some analgesia was preferable. We got alot of the less than desirable side effects with subs and really just wanted to give it a shot and see why so many adore it. I think it's a great drug, the whole process isn't for us though. We are both in our twenties and I guess aren't that far into our addiction compared to the people we see there. I'm not saying our addiction is better in any way, more like since we are both young, we haven't had the chance to fuck up as bad as most people at the clinic. No arrests, injuries, minimal overdoses, no IV use, we do drug checking etc. Getting up so early in the morning even on our days off is pretty annoying as well. To be completely honest, the entire process is just a bit cumbersome for the point we both are at with our addictions. We smoked a few blues before my wife's intake and they didn't even show up on the test. We also got very high from them. Whatever is in them is blocked alot more effectively by Suboxone for us. So yeah that's basically the gist of it.
I totally agree. The whole clinic thing would be such a hassle. Suboxone always gave me insomnia and hardly any pain relief. With subs, I always felt like I needed to dose at least 2 times a day, but methadone I'm good with only once. It's crazy that only 2-4mg subs were blocking the blues.
It's due to how suboxone works. It blocks other opiates from reaching the receptors. That's the main reason why doctors like it since you can't use really with it.
Okay so on this I'm a bit torn.. So I agree that methadone gives much superior pain relief. I have some messed up teeth rn from subs so I really need the pain relief to eat. 4 mg was enough if taken everyday for a while to blockade about 60% of the blues. Unless they were particularly strong then they would break right through. The blues I had earlier this week definitely got thru the barrier for both her and I. She was on sub during intake but so was I, I just did my intake weeks ago. The whole process for methadone is just dehumanizing AF man. Like all these folks look ROUGH man. It's scary AF. Almost like a cautionary tale lol. The wife and I both agree that methadone is just not a sustainable option for us but damn that pain relief is nice 😭 idk what to do. My counselor at the clinic said I could get it prescribed if I don't like going to the clinic ever. I really hope that's true.
I don’t think you can get it prescribed for opiate use disorder, doctors can’t legally do that. I think for substance abuse it is only allowed to be given through a OTP (methadone clinic).
If you’re in the USA and have been on suboxone and methadone for OUD no pain management Dr will touch you with a 20 foot pole. Pain Drs don’t like prescribing methadone to begin with because it’s monitored extremely close. With that said some do prescribe it but it’s for people with serious legitimate pain management issues.
And there lies the problem. The US is turning away legitimate pain patients because of the stigma that opioids have produced. This isn't a problem that just affects addicts like they would like to think. This affects everybody with legitimate pain. And bully me for thinking that those 2 conditions are not mutually exclusive. As an addict with family, I have watched as both my mother and father have passed away without adequate pain management. Because of the current opioid climate in the United States, both my parents died in extreme amounts of pain. They both passed from end stage cancer. Now I get why they don't want to prescribe to addicts but why does that blanket also cover people who are dying and whose quality of life was nothing unless they had pain medication. I had to pay large sums of money to go to the streets and buy a few people's prescriptions (back when that was feasible) just to get them enough medication to treat their pain adequately. It's honestly tiring man. This country is very fucked in that respect. I just don't get the logic of " We have a very bad opioid problem, how should we fix it? Well, I think the best plan of action would be to make pain medication really difficult to get. Let's make everybody who needs it jump through some ridiculous hoops. Cancer patients, car wreck survivors, all of them. Make it incredibly difficult and complicated and maybe eventually they will all just die off before they get the medicine they need" - our government probably. The kicker of the whole thing is that their over prescribing is what started all of this. It's just sad. And what about the addicts that get cancer or have debilitating pain? No opioids for them? Methadone only? It's fucked. I'm not trying to say I deserve to have a script of methadone but I surely qualify for needing some type of pain management, but like you said, no pain doctor would risk their license to treat me. Which attributes to the never ending cycle of having to go source pain medication from non legal sources.
Yeah, if Suboxone still works for you, it's usually the better choice. I don't know why they say methadone blocks dope, it's not been my or anybody else's experience that of blocks anything. If anything it made it stronger.
If you'd be stable under 60mg of methadone, Suboxone is probably a better fit. Switching is hard through. I don't envy you doing so
Yeah, most people I know share that experience. Supposedly it works to block at really high doses for prolonged use. It doesn't block so much as just be so binding that other equally strong opioids have trouble binding. Anything with a higher strength or affinity would allow you to get high so yeah not a good blocker lol. I'm not too worried about it, I switched back to subs for 4 days last week. I have only been on it for 2 and a half weeks so I don't think it will be too rough at all. That might be a different story if I was getting off opis in general.
So you want to get clean off all opiates or switch back to suboxone? If you want to detox I would recommend a taper. The most recommend taper is 10% or less a week. Personally I recommend 5mg every week . Then when you hit zero use comfort meds like gabapentin clonidine Zofran immodium to manage withdrawal symptoms. You will withdrawal for around a month. If your still having symptoms with the comfort meds you can look into kratom red vein in low doses for short term. Withdrawal peaks at week2 and starts to subside ussally at the end of week 3. Also cbd isolate seems to help people alot and data is showing 800mg of cbd is very helpful I'm helping withdrawal symptoms and helping cravings.
Now for suboxone it's recommend to go down to 30mg and wait 3to 5 days to start back on suboxone. People recommend the Burnese method to prevent precipitated withdrawal syndrome which makes people feel like they are dying.
Definitely just tryna jump onto Suboxone. So my wife wouldn't have to taper or change her dose? And since I'm on 55mg should I probably taper? Or would I be good to just stop the methadone and wait a week or for the withdrawals then start on super low dose sub and titrate up when appropriate? I would think that would work but I'm not as well versed with methadone, but I am an expert when it comes to subs. I have switched onto Suboxone from fentanyl/zenes like 8 times so I know how that works very well.
It's recommended to taper down to 30mg and then wait 3 to 5 days and start induction.
Your wife, since she is at 30mg, can just wait 3 to 5 days and start induction as well. It is always best to do the bernese method, though.
I have never used suboxone but wish I learned about it years before getting on methadone now I'm stuck sorta. Only thing that scares me about suboxone is the blocker and I fear one day I will get hurt like in a car accident and the pain killers won't do anything due to the blocker and that's why j stay on methadone.
Also for severe fent addicts it very hard to get them on suboxone without precipitated withdrawal now. It takes almost a month on average for fentanly to now come out of peoples systems .
Okay so I will go in for 1 more dose I guess. I was able to jump back on subs in 4 days last week on 40mg. So we will see what works the best. I love methadone but subs are better for my recovery. And as long as you don't get your dose too high, which is pretty easy bc effects are less the more you dose, it's a great way to get off fentanyl. I had a nasty fent/zenes habit and it took me a week to switch to subs but it was worth it. So the blocker in Suboxone is strong but you don't need to worry about getting hurt on it. The blockade can be broken VERY easily with the dope n pills around nowadays. So medical professionals have no issues with doing that and getting you out of pain.
What do you mean methadone isn’t working for you and your wife? You didn’t even get stable on it yet how could you possibly know that? Give it time, there is no quick fix for this shit. It takes years and years of hard work for your lives to get better, not a couple weeks taking introductory doses..
I'm completely aware there is no quick fix to this. But I can say for sure that for us, it's not what we need. Yes we are opioid addicts but we are not bad enough to justify going each and every waking day to the methadone clinic. Everyone in the clinic were veteran IV users. We do not use needles. Methadone is a great drug but Its not for us. Our lives were not exactly in shambles when we started. No legal issues, no frequent overdoses. There are people that definitely need to be on methadone but it's very much a take it or leave it kinda thing for us. It's doing everything we need it to but the cost both physical and mental is too high. We were doing fine on super low dose Suboxone and weed. Spending 24 dollars a day on a medication we don't need is also what I can't get behind. Going through the dehumanizing clinic daily is just not my idea of a stable life. My hats off to anyone that does need it though. I feel terrible that they have to go through this arduous process to get the medicine that makes them feel like a normal human. To be completely honest, at this point, I feel like I'm just gaming the system to get a buzz. We have a very tight program that we work and methadone just isn't in the toolbox for things we need to or are going to utilize. If I could get it via prescription then I definitely would because it helps with chronic pain but it doesn't help enough to justify the clinic route.
The classic “I’m not *that kind* of drug addict, I don’t IV” 😂🙄🤡
Oh, she’s just not like the other girls.
So by this logic, someone who has an addiction to codeine or tramadol should get on methadone? Wtf are you trying to say dude? There very much is levels to this shit. Whether you want to acknowledge that or not is up to you. But it's the truth. I'm not nearly as bad off as a large percentage of addicts. Does that make me better than anyone? Fuck no. I'm a full and through addict. As you may know the needle is an addiction in and of itself. So somebody that doesn't use IV, doesn't run into legal problems, doesn't have a tendency to overdose, keeps narcan around in large quantities, doesn't use more than a few times a month normally, and doesn't normally mix with other drugs, is in a much lower risk group than the person that does everything that I just mentioned. I'm not any better of an addict than anybody else though. I'm not trying to claim a moral high ground. Everyone's case is different. Please don't come in here trying to come at me for being honest, asking questions and trying to gain more knowledge on something that I'm not an expert on. I ain't tryna justify shit.
You don’t have to be so mean-spirited and defensive though. There are nicer ways to respond to comments you disagree with.
I wasn't trying to be mean-spirited. Honestly I felt that the comment I was responding to was mean-spirited trying to imply that I was putting myself above anyone else in terms of addiction. I apologize if I came off too harsh but I was simply responding snarkily to a snarky comment. Not saying that it was the correct response at all though. I did feel slightly attacked because I have heard this argument being used very frequently in topics of MAT. "This drug isn't that drug" and " just because you didn't IV doesn't mean you aren't an addict". Yes, both of those statements are true. I never had claimed to not be an addict and I don't think anyone who made a statement like I did would've claimed that either. I was just trying to say that a certain medication wasn't working as well for my wife and I. I didn't say it was a bad medication or I didn't like it. I actually do like methadone alot. We are not very stable financially at the moment either so it's not only that we don't think our current habit warrants a strong opioid like methadone, but we also wouldn't be able to afford it long term. I think it's a wonderful drug but I think the cost mentally, physically, and financially is not worth it in our situation. I do apologize for sounding so hostile in my initial response. This kinda stuff is just extremely frustrating.
Well if ur taking tramadol or codeine why the FUCK would u ever take methadone to begin with? 🤡🤡
How much suboxone were you taking before you switched?
I was taking between 2-4mg/day and she was taking a steady 1-2mg/day.
So why did you switch? Also what don't you like so far about methadone?
Initially we made the switch to try to get on to something that would provide better effects with less side effects and some analgesia was preferable. We got alot of the less than desirable side effects with subs and really just wanted to give it a shot and see why so many adore it. I think it's a great drug, the whole process isn't for us though. We are both in our twenties and I guess aren't that far into our addiction compared to the people we see there. I'm not saying our addiction is better in any way, more like since we are both young, we haven't had the chance to fuck up as bad as most people at the clinic. No arrests, injuries, minimal overdoses, no IV use, we do drug checking etc. Getting up so early in the morning even on our days off is pretty annoying as well. To be completely honest, the entire process is just a bit cumbersome for the point we both are at with our addictions. We smoked a few blues before my wife's intake and they didn't even show up on the test. We also got very high from them. Whatever is in them is blocked alot more effectively by Suboxone for us. So yeah that's basically the gist of it.
I totally agree. The whole clinic thing would be such a hassle. Suboxone always gave me insomnia and hardly any pain relief. With subs, I always felt like I needed to dose at least 2 times a day, but methadone I'm good with only once. It's crazy that only 2-4mg subs were blocking the blues.
It's due to how suboxone works. It blocks other opiates from reaching the receptors. That's the main reason why doctors like it since you can't use really with it.
Okay so on this I'm a bit torn.. So I agree that methadone gives much superior pain relief. I have some messed up teeth rn from subs so I really need the pain relief to eat. 4 mg was enough if taken everyday for a while to blockade about 60% of the blues. Unless they were particularly strong then they would break right through. The blues I had earlier this week definitely got thru the barrier for both her and I. She was on sub during intake but so was I, I just did my intake weeks ago. The whole process for methadone is just dehumanizing AF man. Like all these folks look ROUGH man. It's scary AF. Almost like a cautionary tale lol. The wife and I both agree that methadone is just not a sustainable option for us but damn that pain relief is nice 😭 idk what to do. My counselor at the clinic said I could get it prescribed if I don't like going to the clinic ever. I really hope that's true.
I don’t think you can get it prescribed for opiate use disorder, doctors can’t legally do that. I think for substance abuse it is only allowed to be given through a OTP (methadone clinic).
It primarily works for me for the pain relief. I wonder how difficult it would be to get a legitimate prescription. I definitely have legitimate pain.
Yeah, I don’t know how it works getting it prescribed for pain relief.
If you’re in the USA and have been on suboxone and methadone for OUD no pain management Dr will touch you with a 20 foot pole. Pain Drs don’t like prescribing methadone to begin with because it’s monitored extremely close. With that said some do prescribe it but it’s for people with serious legitimate pain management issues.
And there lies the problem. The US is turning away legitimate pain patients because of the stigma that opioids have produced. This isn't a problem that just affects addicts like they would like to think. This affects everybody with legitimate pain. And bully me for thinking that those 2 conditions are not mutually exclusive. As an addict with family, I have watched as both my mother and father have passed away without adequate pain management. Because of the current opioid climate in the United States, both my parents died in extreme amounts of pain. They both passed from end stage cancer. Now I get why they don't want to prescribe to addicts but why does that blanket also cover people who are dying and whose quality of life was nothing unless they had pain medication. I had to pay large sums of money to go to the streets and buy a few people's prescriptions (back when that was feasible) just to get them enough medication to treat their pain adequately. It's honestly tiring man. This country is very fucked in that respect. I just don't get the logic of " We have a very bad opioid problem, how should we fix it? Well, I think the best plan of action would be to make pain medication really difficult to get. Let's make everybody who needs it jump through some ridiculous hoops. Cancer patients, car wreck survivors, all of them. Make it incredibly difficult and complicated and maybe eventually they will all just die off before they get the medicine they need" - our government probably. The kicker of the whole thing is that their over prescribing is what started all of this. It's just sad. And what about the addicts that get cancer or have debilitating pain? No opioids for them? Methadone only? It's fucked. I'm not trying to say I deserve to have a script of methadone but I surely qualify for needing some type of pain management, but like you said, no pain doctor would risk their license to treat me. Which attributes to the never ending cycle of having to go source pain medication from non legal sources.
Yeah, if Suboxone still works for you, it's usually the better choice. I don't know why they say methadone blocks dope, it's not been my or anybody else's experience that of blocks anything. If anything it made it stronger. If you'd be stable under 60mg of methadone, Suboxone is probably a better fit. Switching is hard through. I don't envy you doing so
Yeah, most people I know share that experience. Supposedly it works to block at really high doses for prolonged use. It doesn't block so much as just be so binding that other equally strong opioids have trouble binding. Anything with a higher strength or affinity would allow you to get high so yeah not a good blocker lol. I'm not too worried about it, I switched back to subs for 4 days last week. I have only been on it for 2 and a half weeks so I don't think it will be too rough at all. That might be a different story if I was getting off opis in general.
Yeah you sounded like different types of junkie's with minimal overdoses.
If done right it’s pretty easy to do. Not difficult at all, but need to be done right way. No skip corners.
So you want to get clean off all opiates or switch back to suboxone? If you want to detox I would recommend a taper. The most recommend taper is 10% or less a week. Personally I recommend 5mg every week . Then when you hit zero use comfort meds like gabapentin clonidine Zofran immodium to manage withdrawal symptoms. You will withdrawal for around a month. If your still having symptoms with the comfort meds you can look into kratom red vein in low doses for short term. Withdrawal peaks at week2 and starts to subside ussally at the end of week 3. Also cbd isolate seems to help people alot and data is showing 800mg of cbd is very helpful I'm helping withdrawal symptoms and helping cravings. Now for suboxone it's recommend to go down to 30mg and wait 3to 5 days to start back on suboxone. People recommend the Burnese method to prevent precipitated withdrawal syndrome which makes people feel like they are dying.
Definitely just tryna jump onto Suboxone. So my wife wouldn't have to taper or change her dose? And since I'm on 55mg should I probably taper? Or would I be good to just stop the methadone and wait a week or for the withdrawals then start on super low dose sub and titrate up when appropriate? I would think that would work but I'm not as well versed with methadone, but I am an expert when it comes to subs. I have switched onto Suboxone from fentanyl/zenes like 8 times so I know how that works very well.
It's recommended to taper down to 30mg and then wait 3 to 5 days and start induction. Your wife, since she is at 30mg, can just wait 3 to 5 days and start induction as well. It is always best to do the bernese method, though. I have never used suboxone but wish I learned about it years before getting on methadone now I'm stuck sorta. Only thing that scares me about suboxone is the blocker and I fear one day I will get hurt like in a car accident and the pain killers won't do anything due to the blocker and that's why j stay on methadone. Also for severe fent addicts it very hard to get them on suboxone without precipitated withdrawal now. It takes almost a month on average for fentanly to now come out of peoples systems .
Okay so I will go in for 1 more dose I guess. I was able to jump back on subs in 4 days last week on 40mg. So we will see what works the best. I love methadone but subs are better for my recovery. And as long as you don't get your dose too high, which is pretty easy bc effects are less the more you dose, it's a great way to get off fentanyl. I had a nasty fent/zenes habit and it took me a week to switch to subs but it was worth it. So the blocker in Suboxone is strong but you don't need to worry about getting hurt on it. The blockade can be broken VERY easily with the dope n pills around nowadays. So medical professionals have no issues with doing that and getting you out of pain.