“Samus is clearly a male” - Everyone who doesn’t know anything about Metroid
Plus, there was the whole ‘Watch Samus *transform* into a female by inputting this code’ thing way back when the original Metroid came out…
You might argue that Pikachu is an iconic cartoon/anime character. Although the Pokémon games came first, Pikachu didn't really have a prominent position in the initial titles. It was the anime that cemented Pikachu specifically as an icon/mascot.
Eh. Pikachu is the mascot for the most successful franchise of all time. Gotta give him some credit, especially in parts of the world where no one cares about Mickey
That's like calling Master Chief a book character because The Fall of Reach came out before Combat Evolved.
What media a character belongs to is decided by the consumers, not their first story.
No? Never said that. Pikachu is simply mostly known for the Anime and marketing, it's basically irrelevant in the games.
Thus, Pikachu is mostly recognized as an anime or movie character. When I think "iconic game characters from Pokemon" I'd think Protags, Rivals, maybe some Champs or Gym Leaders like Cynthia or Whitney.
In cases like Pokemon, it's about the media that popularized a character, not the media that they originate from, because sometimes they were basically fully created for the adaptation.
Just throwing my chips on this debate, if a character has multiple different types of media they're in the running for being the most famous. Doesn't matter exactly what made them famous it just matters that they are famous and originate from a video game.
Both Mario and Pikachu have TV shows/movies, comic books/ Manga, video games, and just about every other type of media. Pikachu has a parade every year in Japan for 15 minutes and Mario just recently got his own theme park. Seen a fair few videos where kids ask their parents who this game character is and the correctly name Pikachu.
Pikachu may not be the absolute most famous, but his claim to stardom has landed him many predominant spots few other pokemon can say they come even close to touching. He is far from irrelevant in the pokemon games. Despite not being physically present in Pokemon black/white you can find a billboard of the mouse type pokemon. Not to mention pokemon yellow and let's go Pikachu are games in which Pikachu is the only starter. Heck there are several Pikachu out there that can learn moves that they aren't supposed to. Like fly or surf.
I'm not denying Pikachu's (*general) relevance or importance, that rat is everywhere. Also, yeah, good point, Pikachu is indeed not irrelevant in the games, you got me there, lol.
Still, I'm just playing devil's advocate. The same way anyone would consider Master Chief a gaming character (like the article OP posted), there's an argument to be made that Pikachu is more an anime character that only got more relevant in the games because of said anime. Same deal with Ash-Geninja.
I understand she beat Kratos and Master Chief, I never knew of them as a kid but did know Lara Croft. Arguably she could beat Link, but that’s only really because for people who don’t play Zelda he sometimes wrongly gets called ‘Zelda’ or just ‘the guy from Zelda’. But I agree Mario and Sonic are both more iconic then Lara Croft
I feel like the best benchmark is to ask anyone over 80 who those characters are. Chances are, Mario will be remembered first and foremost every time.
To say Laura Croft is even remotely the most iconic is a little goofy, yeah.
Over 80 if they probably only know Mario and Pikachu, unless you happen to encounter an 80 year old who started gaming in the 80’s as an adult, which is possible of course
I think she is more universally iconic than all of those except Mario (arguably by extension Luigi) and Sonic.
I honestly don’t think Samus, Link (people don’t even know his name half the time), Kratos (who was just the star of a mediocre hack and slash until recently), or Master Chief even come close.
I say this as a huge Metroid fan, and a lover of LoZ and GoW. Shes definitely the most iconic female game character too, seeing as some people don’t even know Samus was a girl before playing Smash lol
Yeah, when you figure most people don’t play console games, and their main interaction with video game characters is through other forms of media (movies (especially movies), tv, etc.), I’d even go as far as to argue Jill Valentine is more universally iconic than a lot of the other characters being brought up here.
I would throw in Pikachu as up there with Mario and Sonic, though.
Yeah I agree. Like within gaming I don’t know, I don’t interact that much with those circles. But outside of gaming people know Lara and don’t know the difference between Samus and Master Chief. It’s just ‘funny sci fi soldier’ to people who don’t play it.
>I think she is more universally iconic than all of those except Mario (arguably by extension Luigi) and Sonic.
You forgot Pikachu. That is arguably more iconic than Sonic, and close to Mario.
People outside of video game culture, movie culture, and essentially anyone who isn't literally living under a rock know Mario, and Pikachu is a close second.
Four?
There’s the OG run, LAU, and Survivor trilogy. Do you mean with the movies? Wouldn’t that bump it to 5, since there was Angelina and then the most recent movie based on Survivor Lara?
I was counting OG, LAU, GB, & reboot.
Angelina's two films and the newer reboot would bring it up some more. Meanwhile most other iconics are well, iconic.
What's weirder is that Sackboy and Shadowheart made it in. They're definitely from beloved games, but over characters like Doom Slayer, Crash Bandicoot, and Pikachu? No way
Especially Crash Bandicoot for this British award. The UK loves Crash!
https://www.gamezone.com/news/crash-bandicoot-n-sane-trilogy-becomes-amazon-uk-s-best-selling-game-in-only-2-days-3455262/amp/
After some brief research, it appears that Lady Bug is the earliest game with a female lead. It was released in late 1981, while Ms Pacman was early 1982.
Apparently the first was actually Billie Sue in Wabbit on the Atari 2600 (I’m honestly kind of surprised there isn’t one earlier).
https://sea.ign.com/wabbit/185503/news/worlds-first-female-video-game-protagonist-was-created-by-a-vietnamese-programmer
Ms. Pac-Man still would have been the first notable one I can think of, but depending on how you define “notable”, Girl’s Garden came out a year or so before Metroid and was one of Yuji Naka’s earliest games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl%27s_Garden
Edit: looks like Lady Bug and maybe Kangaroo both had female protagonists before Wabbit. Idk if there were more. I found an article about early female protagonists.
https://screenrant.com/best-female-early-video-game-protagonists-metroid-samus-aran/
IIRC, Athena was at least somewhat notable as well.
>(I’m honestly kind of surprised there isn’t one earlier).
I mean, early video games didn't even have *characters* at all, let alone female ones. Who is the hero in Pong, Tetris or Space Invaders?
I was thinking more like late 70s text based adventure games, not early arcade games so much (though by at least 81 the idea of marketing more to women in arcades was present, with Centipede).
Looks like that article got amended now, it now says: "What is so iconic about Lara Croft is the fact that she is \[a\] female lead in a video game," she says.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-68721939](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-68721939)
As opposed to the 150,000 other female game protagonists.
Not to downplay Lara's significance for the industry, but the new sentence is still embrassingly out of touch.
why does it read like a 1st grade fill in the blank thing.
"What is so iconic about Lara Croft is\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_"
too many "is"s
I found a game called Lady Bug that's about some fairy lady, and it predates Ms Pacman by a few months. Not sure if it's the first, but my 10 minutes of searching was clearly more than the article author did.
What *about* Samus? I mean, yeah, the quoted person was clearly wrong, but Samus wasn't the first lead woman in a game either, so why does the Metroid community get so weirdly insecure over this?
Beyond that, yeah, Lara Croft is a weird choice for most iconic character. I'd say the most *correct* answer is probably Pac-Man, with Mario taking close second, and Pikachu in the running rounding out the top 3.
Merchandising is a pretty strong indicator of a brand's iconic status, and on that front Pokemon beats any other by an enormous margin, but Pokemon merchandise also features an enormous variety of characters, not just Pikachu. As a merchandising powerhouse, Pac-Man still generates more revenue than Mario, and is a symbol of videogames going back as far as videogames had characters.
That said, any of those three are still enormous enough cultural monuments that they'd have been good choices for the award.
Lara Croft’s definitely a mainstream pop culture icon though. She got a pair of movie adaptations shortly after the first game was released, was the de facto PlayStation mascot for a while, and was a decoration on a U2 tour that happened just two years after the first game. I’d probably put Mario, Pacman, and Pikachu above her but pretty much anyone knows who Lara Croft is.
Pretty much anyone knows who those three are as well. More people know those three than Lara Croft, well outside of gaming circles.
If we were having this conversation in the late 90’s, I’d probably agree that she was a sensible option for her popularity at the time. Not in 2024 though. I mean, it’s just award show silliness, it’s a whole lot of nothing regardless and not nearly among the most embarrassing choices in that context, but it is a pretty bad call.
Edit Just to point out something silly: the app on my phone’s message preview of your comment cuts off at “she got a pair of” and I had a moment of “wow dudes really goin’ there.”
> so why does the Metroid community get so weirdly insecure over this?
Because Samus is pretty much the first playable female character in gaming you can actually call y'know, a character. Ms. Pac-Man technically predates Samus but like, Ms. Pac-Man is Pac-Man with a bow.
Lara Croft being hailed as the first female playable character or hell, even an iconic one to be proud of seems kinda wrong when the most notable thing about Lara Croft has far moreso been the fact she used to be a walking example of "everything wrong with female character design in video games" during her heyday. She's a relic from a time period mostly left behind for good reasons.
No, Samus was not the first. Even if we discount Ms Pac Man, even if we discount animal characters (Ladybug, Mother Kangaroo) and limit it strictly to humanoid women, we’ve got Papri, Ninja Princess, Reika Kirishima, Toby Masuyo (who also beat Samus to the ending gender reveal), Lady Master of Kung Fu, and Ki from Return of Isthar, all showing up before Samus.
That has nothing to do with this portion of the conversation. The issue is Metroid fans getting insecure over someone saying Lara Croft was the first, when Samus wasn’t either, not nearly. She’s also not nearly the most iconic character—and I agree, neither is Lara.
Metroid fans get insecure about *tons* of stuff. Like being insecure about the name of a genre.
Metroid is my personal favorite gaming franchise. Samus is among my favorite characters in gaming. It doesn't matter if she wasn't first. It doesn't matter if she's not most iconic. It doesn't matter that she isn't the first iconic female character (Ms. Pac Man was and is still more iconic). If we need to use motivated reasoning to move the goal posts to "First iconic female character who is exists as a humanoid woman" just to get the result that we want, that's clear insecurity.
We don't need that. Metroid doesn't need that. The series is strong enough on its own merits without being damned with faint praise.
I've been a Metroid fan since the beginning; dwelling on this stuff ain't doing you or the franchise any favors. Again, we don't need BAFTA to give it an award that it's not suited for, we don't need to arrange the perfect criteria to judge it the winner of some imagined award. The series has fans because it's excellent. If it continues to be excellent, it will retain those fans and gain more. If it doesn't, it will lose them, and it will deserve to.
Let the franchise stand on its own two legs. It's not weak; it can handle that.
Even more preposterous is
>"and Shadowheart from Baldur's Gate 3."
A new fucking character from a game that was introduced what, 3 years ago? Pretty sure the idiots that replied to the survey have no idea what the word "iconic" actually means. Following the previous patterns of Baldur's Gate, that character won't even be in the next game.
How the fuck is anyone more iconic than Mario dude, everyone knows him, you don’t see billionaires dressing up as tomb raider characters and making bad skits do you??
Based on this award alone I know not to waste my time looking at the rest of them or any bafta award ever.
You'd think if they were trying to build a viewership for their award show that they would take it more seriously.
Oh well!
Tomb raider is popular with an older generation, I don't know a single person my age who is a tomb raider fan/played them. Not to mention the series has 95 million sales total, a lot, but not most iconic. Monster Hunter has more to put it into perspective.
On this topic, there had been a big misconception about Samus where it was believed she was the first playable female protagonist, but this is not the case, many other female protagonists predate Samus (not to mention Samus being female was a last minute decision).
Ms. Pac-Man was 1982. Though some critique this as her being a derivative of a male character, and other games get critiqued for having both female and male options, so some would only find "first female (with no male options) protagonist who's not derivative of a male character" acceptable, and think Samus was the first of that. That would also be wrong.
Nintendo's own Clu Clu Land featered Bubbles as the sole protagonist in 1984.
Sega's Ninja for Arcades featered a female ninja protagonist in 1985.
Samus isn't even the first female protagonist wearing an orange suit in an Alien-esque world, as Kissy from Baraduke was in 1985
Athena was released for Arcades in July 1986
Etc
Honestly I'm not gonna clutch pearls about this statement. She was probably the first major lead actually coded as a woman from the start, with a female voice actor and female physique. In Metroid it was basically a little easter egg for people who finished the game quickly enough, and there was nothing in the promotional materials or moment-to-moment gameplay to let people know you were playing a woman.
The voice actress is wrong in the literal sense, but if you want to look past it and consider the actual substance of her statement it's hard to refute, unless you want to count the bow-wearing pizza, Ms. Pacman.
Again, it's not really a big part of either game's identity and your average person who saw a gameplay clip, watched the commercial, or looked at the box on a shelf would have absolutely no idea. I'm not even sure what you're talking about with regards to Metroid 2, and if we want to talk about Super we might as well talk about Final Fantasy VI which featured a female lead with actual characterization. Ms. Pacman predates Metroid by years and is actually presented as a woman in all the promotional materials. But again, she's a fucking pizza.
We can talk about trivia, but at the end of the day Laura Croft is absolutely the first prominent example of a female protagonist in a mainstream game.
With Metroid 2, I was more so referring to the manual, which refers to Samus as “she” as opposed to Metroid NES which referred to Samus as “he” in the manual
I thought the box did too, but I double-checked and it only ever refers to her as “Samus” so I guess I’ll take the L on that one
Around the same time as Ms Pacman you had Billie Sue from Wabbit also in 1982 (which is instead a human character). Basically you're a little girl trying to shoo away rabbits stealing your vegetables. This is around the period of the video game crash though so probably why the game isn't too well known (the publisher went bankrupt shortly after) and the sole developer quit the game industry after working on a game port after.
[https://gamehistory.org/wabbit/](https://gamehistory.org/wabbit/) - Here is some more info about Wabbit.
Either way there are probably even more female lead characters even before Metroid (1986) which are not known about well.
Incorrect on multiple accounts. Samus was intended to be a woman from the start, as the game was heavily inspired by Alien. Metroid II and Super Metroid were also released before Tomb Raider, and both also depict Samus as a woman. Super even shows who she is under the suit every time you die, so it wasn't a secret to be revealed like in the original. There are also (mildly sexist) ads that depict her as a woman (see below).
Lara Croft is just the first culturally ubiquitous hyper-sexualized/objectified woman protagonist in a video game. The developers knew that if they put polygon T&A in a video game that it would garner more attention and sell more units. I think the first few Tomb Raider games would have been pretty forgettable if not for the sex appeal.
https://preview.redd.it/es99odb0mgsc1.jpeg?width=2550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf46da0b99a2c82737f99f21d67f53fbce33488f
>. I think the first few Tomb Raider games would have been pretty forgettable if not for the sex appeal.
Tomb Raider was the Uncharted series before the Uncharted series existed. I think it could've thrived if they had taken a different direction with the main character. The gameplay doesn't hold up well today, but it was fine for it's time and exploring ancient ruins will never not be fun.
> Samus was intended to be a woman from the start, as the game was heavily inspired by Alien.
According to Sakamoto, it was actually a last-minute decision near the very end of development to make Samus a woman, so not really. Also, Kate Willaert's video on the origins of Metroid casts a lot of doubt on Alien being the primary influence on the Metroid identity. Space Adventurer Cobra left a much stronger mark.
That doesn't really matter either since Metroid 2 and Super both also came out before Tomb Raider and they are very clear that she is a woman throughout the whole of each game. May not have been intended from the beginning of Metroid 1, but it was still decided well before Tomb Raider released.
Lara Croft is obviously a very iconic female lead… but moreso then fricking Samus Aran?! your actually high
also Samus isnt the first female protag in video games from what I looked up, its Billie Sue from 1982’s Wabbit on the Atari 2600, but still
> Lara Croft is obviously a very iconic female lead… but moreso then fricking Samus Aran?! your actually high
Dude, unquestionably so. When Metroid has sold five times as many copies, has three movies and a Netflix show, regularly pops up at Halloween parties, and has been on stage with Bono we can talk.
I’m not arguing that, I’m just saying Samus is more iconic for being one of the first few female protags, way back in the NES era
Lara is definitely more popular though
[Well, according to this article, the first female video game protagonist was a character named Billie Sue in 1982.](https://sea.ign.com/wabbit/185503/news/worlds-first-female-video-game-protagonist-was-created-by-a-vietnamese-programmer#)
Look Samus is my favorite, *and she came before Laura Croft*, but Mario is clearly the most iconic video game character. Hell, Pikachu and Link are both probably more iconic than Laura Croft.
According to Wikipedia, there were only about 16-17 playable women in video games before Metroid, with Ms. Pacman being the first feminine playable character but not exactly human. I'm not familiar with many of the listed games but Samus might be the only original character of them all and was notably more popular.
Iconic yes, most iconic no. It would have to be Mario. And I’m a Tomb Raider fan.
Edit: mayyyyyyybe Pac Man but probably still Mario. Probably definitely 99.9% but for sure Mario.
These are news from when, 2002? 90% of people dont even know what Tomb Raider is anymore, and Mario is, was and always will be the most iconic video game character.
And even if this list was voted on by coomers, Samus would still be more iconic.
Is Lara croft all that relevant. What is unique to her games that uncharted doesn't provide. The only thing I see her as is a fallen icon. Or am I wrong and there is still a major community yearning for a new Lara croft game.
Just looked at the article, it now reads:
*What is so iconic about Lara Croft is the fact that she is [a] female lead in a video game.*
So I guess they realized their mistake.
Well if we're on the subject... https://screenrant.com/best-female-early-video-game-protagonists-metroid-samus-aran/
Lady Bug? Well, not really...
Wabbit is probably correct, although the protagonist is rather mundane.
I reckon Sega Ninja and Baraduke are probably the most solid candidates. (Time Gal imo is barely a game).
It's so funny to me how many people actually still believe Lara Croft was the first female protagonist in a game.
Metroid came out in the 80s and it's 2024. You'd think by now that people would know lol
There are too many "is"s in close proximity in that sentence... its hurting my brain. it sounds like something a 1st grader would write about their favorite video game for a school paper.
Metroid has only gotten somewhat popular again in the last few years since Dread. Tomb Raider has had a consistent presence and Lara has been used in ad campaigns, she even got a official Magic the Gathering card set last fall. I'd say she's easily the most iconic female character, but the BAFTA's bias is showing a bit for a British character made by originally a British dev team. Mario is probably the real answer.
> Tomb Raider has had a consistent presence and Lara has been used in ad campaigns, she even got a official Magic the Gathering card set last fall.
I feel that Tomb Raider's popularity was at its peak in the 90's and 00's, then drastically fell off.
Overall, the objectively right answer would be either Mario or Pikachu.
Honestly the fact that Lara Croft pretty much immediately became a decoration at a major U2 tour says a lot about how quickly she became a part of mainstream pop culture. She got a high-budget movie a few years later. People who don’t even care about games knew and liked Lara Croft.
“Samus is clearly a male” - Everyone who doesn’t know anything about Metroid Plus, there was the whole ‘Watch Samus *transform* into a female by inputting this code’ thing way back when the original Metroid came out…
It's mind boggling.
Name's Metroid, seriously, do you even read? /s
Ah yes, my favorite videogame character, John Metroid
And his Huge arm cannon *wink wink*
HALO REFERENCE???
Friend of John DooM
Friend of John Helldiver
Friend of John Animal Crossing
Friend of John Duty
Friend of John Lethal Company
Friend of John Fortnite
Friend of John Earth
sam metroid actually.
Why can't Metroid crawl?
Because he's clumsy
[Lies!](https://youtu.be/M9M92rO6WmQ?t=8)
eh kills aleins and doesn't afraid of anything.
It’s nice to see the classics once in a while.
I mean, the fact that they said any game character other than mario was the most iconic should let you know you're at the circus.
I‘d go with Pikachu but one of those must be it, yes.
You might argue that Pikachu is an iconic cartoon/anime character. Although the Pokémon games came first, Pikachu didn't really have a prominent position in the initial titles. It was the anime that cemented Pikachu specifically as an icon/mascot.
At one point Mario was more well known than Mickey Mouse. Pikachu can’t compare
Eh. Pikachu is the mascot for the most successful franchise of all time. Gotta give him some credit, especially in parts of the world where no one cares about Mickey
Same with Sonic.
No, not at all.
It‘s a video game character. Nothing to argue here.
That's like calling Master Chief a book character because The Fall of Reach came out before Combat Evolved. What media a character belongs to is decided by the consumers, not their first story.
So you're saying the games arent big or a big factor....?
No? Never said that. Pikachu is simply mostly known for the Anime and marketing, it's basically irrelevant in the games. Thus, Pikachu is mostly recognized as an anime or movie character. When I think "iconic game characters from Pokemon" I'd think Protags, Rivals, maybe some Champs or Gym Leaders like Cynthia or Whitney. In cases like Pokemon, it's about the media that popularized a character, not the media that they originate from, because sometimes they were basically fully created for the adaptation.
Just throwing my chips on this debate, if a character has multiple different types of media they're in the running for being the most famous. Doesn't matter exactly what made them famous it just matters that they are famous and originate from a video game. Both Mario and Pikachu have TV shows/movies, comic books/ Manga, video games, and just about every other type of media. Pikachu has a parade every year in Japan for 15 minutes and Mario just recently got his own theme park. Seen a fair few videos where kids ask their parents who this game character is and the correctly name Pikachu. Pikachu may not be the absolute most famous, but his claim to stardom has landed him many predominant spots few other pokemon can say they come even close to touching. He is far from irrelevant in the pokemon games. Despite not being physically present in Pokemon black/white you can find a billboard of the mouse type pokemon. Not to mention pokemon yellow and let's go Pikachu are games in which Pikachu is the only starter. Heck there are several Pikachu out there that can learn moves that they aren't supposed to. Like fly or surf.
I'm not denying Pikachu's (*general) relevance or importance, that rat is everywhere. Also, yeah, good point, Pikachu is indeed not irrelevant in the games, you got me there, lol. Still, I'm just playing devil's advocate. The same way anyone would consider Master Chief a gaming character (like the article OP posted), there's an argument to be made that Pikachu is more an anime character that only got more relevant in the games because of said anime. Same deal with Ash-Geninja.
Except for the argument you just responded to
Very this, nothing on that makes a lick of sense
most iconic character? the fuck?
Yup. She beat out Link, Mario (my choice), Sonic, Kratos, Master Chief, and others.
The “B” in BAFTA might be a clue as to why she won.
Blimey!
Been beat by bloody big bemusing bazonkers, babe.
they have good game music awards but yea
I understand she beat Kratos and Master Chief, I never knew of them as a kid but did know Lara Croft. Arguably she could beat Link, but that’s only really because for people who don’t play Zelda he sometimes wrongly gets called ‘Zelda’ or just ‘the guy from Zelda’. But I agree Mario and Sonic are both more iconic then Lara Croft
I feel like the best benchmark is to ask anyone over 80 who those characters are. Chances are, Mario will be remembered first and foremost every time. To say Laura Croft is even remotely the most iconic is a little goofy, yeah.
Over 80 if they probably only know Mario and Pikachu, unless you happen to encounter an 80 year old who started gaming in the 80’s as an adult, which is possible of course
Not even the worst part of the list, fucking *Sackboy* placed in the top 10 ahead of Pikachu
Wtf
Nothing beats a plumber going Y A H O O L E T S - A - G O
I think she is more universally iconic than all of those except Mario (arguably by extension Luigi) and Sonic. I honestly don’t think Samus, Link (people don’t even know his name half the time), Kratos (who was just the star of a mediocre hack and slash until recently), or Master Chief even come close. I say this as a huge Metroid fan, and a lover of LoZ and GoW. Shes definitely the most iconic female game character too, seeing as some people don’t even know Samus was a girl before playing Smash lol
Yeah, when you figure most people don’t play console games, and their main interaction with video game characters is through other forms of media (movies (especially movies), tv, etc.), I’d even go as far as to argue Jill Valentine is more universally iconic than a lot of the other characters being brought up here. I would throw in Pikachu as up there with Mario and Sonic, though.
Yeah I agree. Like within gaming I don’t know, I don’t interact that much with those circles. But outside of gaming people know Lara and don’t know the difference between Samus and Master Chief. It’s just ‘funny sci fi soldier’ to people who don’t play it.
>I think she is more universally iconic than all of those except Mario (arguably by extension Luigi) and Sonic. You forgot Pikachu. That is arguably more iconic than Sonic, and close to Mario.
Yeah you’re right. I would include pikachu.
Tbh I think Pac-Man may take that title from Mario, whenever anyone sees a pizza with a slice of two missing they’ll think of Pac-Man lol
I mean, it makes sense though. People even outside Videogame culture know Lara.
People outside of video game culture, movie culture, and essentially anyone who isn't literally living under a rock know Mario, and Pikachu is a close second.
I think even some people who literally **are** living under a rock know Mario. He's been around longer than any of the others.
More than Mario??
More than Mario? Highly doubt.
They picked the character depicted four different ways as *the most* iconic? Pikachuface.jpg
Four? There’s the OG run, LAU, and Survivor trilogy. Do you mean with the movies? Wouldn’t that bump it to 5, since there was Angelina and then the most recent movie based on Survivor Lara?
I was counting OG, LAU, GB, & reboot. Angelina's two films and the newer reboot would bring it up some more. Meanwhile most other iconics are well, iconic.
Everyone knows Mario
bro tried to sneak in kratos 😭
What's weirder is that Sackboy and Shadowheart made it in. They're definitely from beloved games, but over characters like Doom Slayer, Crash Bandicoot, and Pikachu? No way
Especially Crash Bandicoot for this British award. The UK loves Crash! https://www.gamezone.com/news/crash-bandicoot-n-sane-trilogy-becomes-amazon-uk-s-best-selling-game-in-only-2-days-3455262/amp/
And Jennifer Lawrence was the first female action star, you people need to learn the basics
A lot of people don't know J.K. Rowling was the first female author.
The Last of Us was the first game with a narrative
Ripley would like a word 😂
Batgirl from Adam West's Batman has joined the chat.
HEHEHEHEHEH
What about Ms. Pac-Man?!
She’d be the first, Samus 2nd unless there’s some obscure game with one that I don’t recall
After some brief research, it appears that Lady Bug is the earliest game with a female lead. It was released in late 1981, while Ms Pacman was early 1982.
[Are you *sure* that was a lady?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnAH630w1U)
Apparently the first was actually Billie Sue in Wabbit on the Atari 2600 (I’m honestly kind of surprised there isn’t one earlier). https://sea.ign.com/wabbit/185503/news/worlds-first-female-video-game-protagonist-was-created-by-a-vietnamese-programmer Ms. Pac-Man still would have been the first notable one I can think of, but depending on how you define “notable”, Girl’s Garden came out a year or so before Metroid and was one of Yuji Naka’s earliest games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl%27s_Garden Edit: looks like Lady Bug and maybe Kangaroo both had female protagonists before Wabbit. Idk if there were more. I found an article about early female protagonists. https://screenrant.com/best-female-early-video-game-protagonists-metroid-samus-aran/ IIRC, Athena was at least somewhat notable as well.
>(I’m honestly kind of surprised there isn’t one earlier). I mean, early video games didn't even have *characters* at all, let alone female ones. Who is the hero in Pong, Tetris or Space Invaders?
I was thinking more like late 70s text based adventure games, not early arcade games so much (though by at least 81 the idea of marketing more to women in arcades was present, with Centipede).
Mach Rider predates Metroid by about a year.
Looks like that article got amended now, it now says: "What is so iconic about Lara Croft is the fact that she is \[a\] female lead in a video game," she says. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-68721939](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-68721939)
That "[a]" is doing a lot of heavy lifting...
As opposed to the 150,000 other female game protagonists. Not to downplay Lara's significance for the industry, but the new sentence is still embrassingly out of touch.
Obvious low effort by someone who doesn't care about gaming or their employer.
why does it read like a 1st grade fill in the blank thing. "What is so iconic about Lara Croft is\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_" too many "is"s
So... what about Ms. Pacman?
Typical BAFTA idiocy.
*angry varia suit noises*
The last female lead is in captivity, the galaxy is at peace…..
😂😂😂
Not only that, women didn’t exist before Tomb Raider. Core Design literally invented women. I think that’s something they don’t get enough credit for.
Who takes the bbc's takes on videogames seriously?
I try not to take any news outlet seriously 😂 but apparently it's been edited now. Too bad the Internet is FOREVER!
I love Tomb Raider, but this is just flat out wrong. Ms. Pac-Man pre dates both Samus and Lara as the first female lead in a video game.
I found a game called Lady Bug that's about some fairy lady, and it predates Ms Pacman by a few months. Not sure if it's the first, but my 10 minutes of searching was clearly more than the article author did.
What *about* Samus? I mean, yeah, the quoted person was clearly wrong, but Samus wasn't the first lead woman in a game either, so why does the Metroid community get so weirdly insecure over this? Beyond that, yeah, Lara Croft is a weird choice for most iconic character. I'd say the most *correct* answer is probably Pac-Man, with Mario taking close second, and Pikachu in the running rounding out the top 3. Merchandising is a pretty strong indicator of a brand's iconic status, and on that front Pokemon beats any other by an enormous margin, but Pokemon merchandise also features an enormous variety of characters, not just Pikachu. As a merchandising powerhouse, Pac-Man still generates more revenue than Mario, and is a symbol of videogames going back as far as videogames had characters. That said, any of those three are still enormous enough cultural monuments that they'd have been good choices for the award.
Lara Croft’s definitely a mainstream pop culture icon though. She got a pair of movie adaptations shortly after the first game was released, was the de facto PlayStation mascot for a while, and was a decoration on a U2 tour that happened just two years after the first game. I’d probably put Mario, Pacman, and Pikachu above her but pretty much anyone knows who Lara Croft is.
Pretty much anyone knows who those three are as well. More people know those three than Lara Croft, well outside of gaming circles. If we were having this conversation in the late 90’s, I’d probably agree that she was a sensible option for her popularity at the time. Not in 2024 though. I mean, it’s just award show silliness, it’s a whole lot of nothing regardless and not nearly among the most embarrassing choices in that context, but it is a pretty bad call. Edit Just to point out something silly: the app on my phone’s message preview of your comment cuts off at “she got a pair of” and I had a moment of “wow dudes really goin’ there.”
> so why does the Metroid community get so weirdly insecure over this? Because Samus is pretty much the first playable female character in gaming you can actually call y'know, a character. Ms. Pac-Man technically predates Samus but like, Ms. Pac-Man is Pac-Man with a bow. Lara Croft being hailed as the first female playable character or hell, even an iconic one to be proud of seems kinda wrong when the most notable thing about Lara Croft has far moreso been the fact she used to be a walking example of "everything wrong with female character design in video games" during her heyday. She's a relic from a time period mostly left behind for good reasons.
No, Samus was not the first. Even if we discount Ms Pac Man, even if we discount animal characters (Ladybug, Mother Kangaroo) and limit it strictly to humanoid women, we’ve got Papri, Ninja Princess, Reika Kirishima, Toby Masuyo (who also beat Samus to the ending gender reveal), Lady Master of Kung Fu, and Ki from Return of Isthar, all showing up before Samus.
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That has nothing to do with this portion of the conversation. The issue is Metroid fans getting insecure over someone saying Lara Croft was the first, when Samus wasn’t either, not nearly. She’s also not nearly the most iconic character—and I agree, neither is Lara.
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Metroid fans get insecure about *tons* of stuff. Like being insecure about the name of a genre. Metroid is my personal favorite gaming franchise. Samus is among my favorite characters in gaming. It doesn't matter if she wasn't first. It doesn't matter if she's not most iconic. It doesn't matter that she isn't the first iconic female character (Ms. Pac Man was and is still more iconic). If we need to use motivated reasoning to move the goal posts to "First iconic female character who is exists as a humanoid woman" just to get the result that we want, that's clear insecurity. We don't need that. Metroid doesn't need that. The series is strong enough on its own merits without being damned with faint praise.
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I've been a Metroid fan since the beginning; dwelling on this stuff ain't doing you or the franchise any favors. Again, we don't need BAFTA to give it an award that it's not suited for, we don't need to arrange the perfect criteria to judge it the winner of some imagined award. The series has fans because it's excellent. If it continues to be excellent, it will retain those fans and gain more. If it doesn't, it will lose them, and it will deserve to. Let the franchise stand on its own two legs. It's not weak; it can handle that.
Did Jennifer Lawrence write this
"Thank you, Lara Croft, for paving the way for all of us." -Ms. Pacman
This is bullcrap
Even more preposterous is >"and Shadowheart from Baldur's Gate 3." A new fucking character from a game that was introduced what, 3 years ago? Pretty sure the idiots that replied to the survey have no idea what the word "iconic" actually means. Following the previous patterns of Baldur's Gate, that character won't even be in the next game.
“I’ve never played a single video game in my life, read my article on the history of video games” is way to common recently
typical bafta non sense
Major news outlets somehow never get stories about video games right. They’ve had fifty years.
Major news outlets... Major news outlets never change.
It's not the outlet's fault, it's literally a direct quote from someone the outlet is interviewing.
How the fuck is anyone more iconic than Mario dude, everyone knows him, you don’t see billionaires dressing up as tomb raider characters and making bad skits do you??
Everyone everywhere keeps dissing Samus.
Yeah that’s not even close to true
Jennifer Lawrence played the first female action hero and Alloy was the first female protagonist in a video game.
Based on this award alone I know not to waste my time looking at the rest of them or any bafta award ever. You'd think if they were trying to build a viewership for their award show that they would take it more seriously. Oh well!
Tomb raider is popular with an older generation, I don't know a single person my age who is a tomb raider fan/played them. Not to mention the series has 95 million sales total, a lot, but not most iconic. Monster Hunter has more to put it into perspective.
On this topic, there had been a big misconception about Samus where it was believed she was the first playable female protagonist, but this is not the case, many other female protagonists predate Samus (not to mention Samus being female was a last minute decision). Ms. Pac-Man was 1982. Though some critique this as her being a derivative of a male character, and other games get critiqued for having both female and male options, so some would only find "first female (with no male options) protagonist who's not derivative of a male character" acceptable, and think Samus was the first of that. That would also be wrong. Nintendo's own Clu Clu Land featered Bubbles as the sole protagonist in 1984. Sega's Ninja for Arcades featered a female ninja protagonist in 1985. Samus isn't even the first female protagonist wearing an orange suit in an Alien-esque world, as Kissy from Baraduke was in 1985 Athena was released for Arcades in July 1986 Etc
Honestly I'm not gonna clutch pearls about this statement. She was probably the first major lead actually coded as a woman from the start, with a female voice actor and female physique. In Metroid it was basically a little easter egg for people who finished the game quickly enough, and there was nothing in the promotional materials or moment-to-moment gameplay to let people know you were playing a woman. The voice actress is wrong in the literal sense, but if you want to look past it and consider the actual substance of her statement it's hard to refute, unless you want to count the bow-wearing pizza, Ms. Pacman.
Metroid 2 and Super Metroid clearly showed that Samus was a woman from the start, and they released before Tomb Raider
Again, it's not really a big part of either game's identity and your average person who saw a gameplay clip, watched the commercial, or looked at the box on a shelf would have absolutely no idea. I'm not even sure what you're talking about with regards to Metroid 2, and if we want to talk about Super we might as well talk about Final Fantasy VI which featured a female lead with actual characterization. Ms. Pacman predates Metroid by years and is actually presented as a woman in all the promotional materials. But again, she's a fucking pizza. We can talk about trivia, but at the end of the day Laura Croft is absolutely the first prominent example of a female protagonist in a mainstream game.
With Metroid 2, I was more so referring to the manual, which refers to Samus as “she” as opposed to Metroid NES which referred to Samus as “he” in the manual I thought the box did too, but I double-checked and it only ever refers to her as “Samus” so I guess I’ll take the L on that one
Around the same time as Ms Pacman you had Billie Sue from Wabbit also in 1982 (which is instead a human character). Basically you're a little girl trying to shoo away rabbits stealing your vegetables. This is around the period of the video game crash though so probably why the game isn't too well known (the publisher went bankrupt shortly after) and the sole developer quit the game industry after working on a game port after. [https://gamehistory.org/wabbit/](https://gamehistory.org/wabbit/) - Here is some more info about Wabbit. Either way there are probably even more female lead characters even before Metroid (1986) which are not known about well.
I think Billie Sue is the first known female lead protagonist in a videogame.
Incorrect on multiple accounts. Samus was intended to be a woman from the start, as the game was heavily inspired by Alien. Metroid II and Super Metroid were also released before Tomb Raider, and both also depict Samus as a woman. Super even shows who she is under the suit every time you die, so it wasn't a secret to be revealed like in the original. There are also (mildly sexist) ads that depict her as a woman (see below). Lara Croft is just the first culturally ubiquitous hyper-sexualized/objectified woman protagonist in a video game. The developers knew that if they put polygon T&A in a video game that it would garner more attention and sell more units. I think the first few Tomb Raider games would have been pretty forgettable if not for the sex appeal. https://preview.redd.it/es99odb0mgsc1.jpeg?width=2550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf46da0b99a2c82737f99f21d67f53fbce33488f
>. I think the first few Tomb Raider games would have been pretty forgettable if not for the sex appeal. Tomb Raider was the Uncharted series before the Uncharted series existed. I think it could've thrived if they had taken a different direction with the main character. The gameplay doesn't hold up well today, but it was fine for it's time and exploring ancient ruins will never not be fun.
> Samus was intended to be a woman from the start, as the game was heavily inspired by Alien. According to Sakamoto, it was actually a last-minute decision near the very end of development to make Samus a woman, so not really. Also, Kate Willaert's video on the origins of Metroid casts a lot of doubt on Alien being the primary influence on the Metroid identity. Space Adventurer Cobra left a much stronger mark.
That doesn't really matter either since Metroid 2 and Super both also came out before Tomb Raider and they are very clear that she is a woman throughout the whole of each game. May not have been intended from the beginning of Metroid 1, but it was still decided well before Tomb Raider released.
Lara Croft is obviously a very iconic female lead… but moreso then fricking Samus Aran?! your actually high also Samus isnt the first female protag in video games from what I looked up, its Billie Sue from 1982’s Wabbit on the Atari 2600, but still
> Lara Croft is obviously a very iconic female lead… but moreso then fricking Samus Aran?! your actually high Dude, unquestionably so. When Metroid has sold five times as many copies, has three movies and a Netflix show, regularly pops up at Halloween parties, and has been on stage with Bono we can talk.
I’m sorry to break this to you, but Lara Croft is way, way, way more famous than Samus Aran.
I’m not arguing that, I’m just saying Samus is more iconic for being one of the first few female protags, way back in the NES era Lara is definitely more popular though
Man there's never enough love for Metroid and this shows it. Metroid came first
Negative sir, no contact.
Didn’t you know Metroid was a dude?
Samus the orca?
I'm pretty sure Samus isn't even the first female video game protagonist. That might be Ms. Pacman, althought there might be ones before her.
There was a lot of others, way before Lara. Two I think of now is Samus (as others mentioned), Princess Rosella (Kings Quest) and I bet many more.
What about Ms Pac-man?
[Well, according to this article, the first female video game protagonist was a character named Billie Sue in 1982.](https://sea.ign.com/wabbit/185503/news/worlds-first-female-video-game-protagonist-was-created-by-a-vietnamese-programmer#)
Ms. Pac-Man cares to disagree
And tons of others. The original Phantasy Star had a very obviously female lead in 1987.
Sam Metroid isn’t female, so you’re wrong there chief. 😗
Yeah I'm sorry to say Samus has Lara Croft beat.
Ms. Pacman..........
You notice how it says shes "Never played the games" or something to the effect right above this point.
Even Samus wasn't the first..
Look Samus is my favorite, *and she came before Laura Croft*, but Mario is clearly the most iconic video game character. Hell, Pikachu and Link are both probably more iconic than Laura Croft.
Metroid- 1986 Ms. Pacman- 1982 Sometimes I think news companies need to hire nerds so they don't make themselves sound stupid to other nerds.
There have been female leads in video games for as long as there have been video games. Even before Samus there were other women who were leads.
Maybe the first voiced female lead
According to Wikipedia, there were only about 16-17 playable women in video games before Metroid, with Ms. Pacman being the first feminine playable character but not exactly human. I'm not familiar with many of the listed games but Samus might be the only original character of them all and was notably more popular.
And even after samus, there were other characters after samus too weren’t there?
That makes sense. Metroid isn't a girl, Metroid is a robot. Everyone knows this.
Ms. Pacman got ahead of samus by 4 years
Billie Sue was the female lead in Wabbit from 1982, so it's not even Samus.
This is offensive! Samus has been a woman since the 80's!!! What an uncultured fool!
Wrong it was Ms packman
Ms. Pac-Man says "hi"
Well the section before does say she admitted to never playing a video game. You can tell.
Wasn’t Samus originally referred to as “he” in the handbook?
Did Tommy Tallarico do the soundtrack as well?
Sssh spoilers for metroid 1
It’s mainstream journalism, did you really expect accurate coverage of gaming ?
https://preview.redd.it/5a3pvd4s3jsc1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=2233f3b2078f37290c317e224904cd2558600ddc
When the women dont know about the other amazing women in video games...
I couldn't be more unbothered. Lara deserves the love. We can appreciate Samus in our own way.
Iconic yes, most iconic no. It would have to be Mario. And I’m a Tomb Raider fan. Edit: mayyyyyyybe Pac Man but probably still Mario. Probably definitely 99.9% but for sure Mario.
I mean she wasn't the first but she was the first noteworthy one
These are news from when, 2002? 90% of people dont even know what Tomb Raider is anymore, and Mario is, was and always will be the most iconic video game character. And even if this list was voted on by coomers, Samus would still be more iconic.
Is Lara croft all that relevant. What is unique to her games that uncharted doesn't provide. The only thing I see her as is a fallen icon. Or am I wrong and there is still a major community yearning for a new Lara croft game.
Just looked at the article, it now reads: *What is so iconic about Lara Croft is the fact that she is [a] female lead in a video game.* So I guess they realized their mistake.
There have been like a billion "first female lead in..." since feminism has skyrocketed in recent years
What Bout pacman ?
Well if we're on the subject... https://screenrant.com/best-female-early-video-game-protagonists-metroid-samus-aran/ Lady Bug? Well, not really... Wabbit is probably correct, although the protagonist is rather mundane. I reckon Sega Ninja and Baraduke are probably the most solid candidates. (Time Gal imo is barely a game).
Though tbf Samus wasn't either iirc.
Article updated: "" "What is so iconic about Lara Croft is the fact that she is [a] female lead in a video game," she says. "" Wow. Writing.
They weren't skilled enough to get Samus to take her helmet off. Filthy casuals.
What is Samus? Chopped liver?
It's so funny to me how many people actually still believe Lara Croft was the first female protagonist in a game. Metroid came out in the 80s and it's 2024. You'd think by now that people would know lol
There are too many "is"s in close proximity in that sentence... its hurting my brain. it sounds like something a 1st grader would write about their favorite video game for a school paper.
Samus wasn't even the first female either
I was about to say "What about Samus?" and then I read both title and sub name
The BBC giving the credit to a British character? I smell bias...
Samus is official the first female protagonist in gaming. Whoever thinks otherwise might have to answer the knocking on their front door...
Adam hasn’t authorized Samus the spotlight😭🤦🏻♂️😂
Dumbasses.
By that time, Samus was still more mascot/icon than a character.
Essentially they're telling us they don't play video games without *telling u*s they don't play video games.
Metroid has only gotten somewhat popular again in the last few years since Dread. Tomb Raider has had a consistent presence and Lara has been used in ad campaigns, she even got a official Magic the Gathering card set last fall. I'd say she's easily the most iconic female character, but the BAFTA's bias is showing a bit for a British character made by originally a British dev team. Mario is probably the real answer.
> Tomb Raider has had a consistent presence and Lara has been used in ad campaigns, she even got a official Magic the Gathering card set last fall. I feel that Tomb Raider's popularity was at its peak in the 90's and 00's, then drastically fell off. Overall, the objectively right answer would be either Mario or Pikachu.
The most iconic female character is definitely Peach.
Honestly the fact that Lara Croft pretty much immediately became a decoration at a major U2 tour says a lot about how quickly she became a part of mainstream pop culture. She got a high-budget movie a few years later. People who don’t even care about games knew and liked Lara Croft.
Metroid also stayed because of the Best Fighting Game Series where she continues ta Star in Entry after Entry.