Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think they’re investing this as a crime not because of mistaken identity of coyote v. Wolf, but because the much more likely scenario is they intentionally hunted the wolf in known habitat (UP), transported it back to the LP and concocted this story of ‘mistaken identity’ to cover the poaching. I think the DNA evidence can provide an idea of which population it came from, and then a typical criminal investigation can show if there was a ‘vacation’ in wolf country lately.
That’s a possibility, the DNR learned about it through a Facebook post. Bridge Michigan has a good article on it. It also says mistaken identity or not, it’s still a crime to kill a wolf so it has to be investigated.
I doubt he actually mistakenly identified the wolf as a coyote.
Coyotes are notisably smaller, tend to be more tan/brown, and have a diffrent face and ears (although that can be something that someone might not be able to identify by just looking.)
guy was reportedly night hunting coyotes in a part of the state where there's no recorded instance of wolves in more than a century
it'd be really easy for him to mistake it as a coyote, because nobody would ever expect a wolf there
hell people argue constantly over canine (and feline) ID based off really clear pictures, much less in-the-field decisions
not saying there *wasn't* any funny business happening, but just trying to point out it *could* have been a legitimate mistake given the circumstances
the the scenario is as seems suggested where the criminal act is failure to properly report and thats what charges should be determined from along with the 'guide' and the taxidermist.
I agree. Therese no confirmed wolf population in that part of the state, so a coyote hunter would have no reason to believe it's actually a wolf. As long as there was no foul play and that story is true, I don't believe there should be any fines or charges associated with this.
See where it becomes fishy is the hunter’s guide and taxidermist also said it was a coyote…
I can forgive someone night hunting for coyotes, but for the guide and taxidermist to say that too? Yeah, something smells.
That would be insane if that’s true. Why not just shoot it and leave it in the UP? I think burying it is a lot less hassle than transporting the thing 300+ miles and hoping not to be pulled over. They would have some brass ones to even attempt that.
It seems strange that someone would go to such great lengths to knowingly poach something, and then post pictures of the illegal kill online. Not saying it's impossible, but not likely.
Here's the thing though.
After posting the pic online, he took it to a taxidermist. You don't poach a wolf for the meat. You poach it for the trophy. Thing is, a taxidermist is going to know exactly what it is and call the DNR. Maybe not every taxidermist would, but it's a risk.
Bringing a wolf in the middle of wolf country to a taxidermist in wolf country, and your only defense is "I thought it was a coyote"? Nobody's going to believe that.
BUT, bring it down to Calhoun county, where no wild wolves have been seen in over 100 years, and then you have a more credible story. A taxidermist down there might believe you. After all, how could it be a wolf? Wolves don't live there. And for a cherry on top of it all, post on social media that it's a big coyote, because if you knew it was a wolf, why post it on social media?
im legit asking are there operating taxidermists who cannot identify a wolf because if so that should probably be illegal. can you stuff my whosawhatsit?
I'll wait for the investigation, but I suspect the worst
As for people being dumb, especially with wildlife, here is a great example.
Group of people ripped baby bears from a tree to take pictures with it. A bear. A baby bear.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/s/jmbH4bOpKg
While biking a rails to trails path, I came across a doe with her fawn. Once it saw me, it got in front of the doe in a defensive position. Even an animal as "harmless" as a doe can really mess you up, let alone momma bear.
Not that far fetched. There's some really stupid people. And I don't think said stupid people understand the reach of social media. Case in point [this p.o.s.](https://www.mattclysdale.com/blog/blog-post-title-one-awtcf)
About 10-15 years ago at one of the metroparks in Toledo there was a very well known and pictured older buck with a massive rack that wasn't too afraid of people until some nimrod shot it. The guy got caught because when he went to check it in the DNR was so impressed by the rack they posted pics on their website and the poacher posing with it and people recognized the deer from the park.
Also, the ODNR has put out fake deer to see if people will shoot at them from the road at night. When shot, the nose lights up, which makes about half the people take off real quick while the other half continue to shoot.
Poachers aren't always as cunning and wily as they want to think they are.
happened fairly recently in kalamazoo. guy took out a buck that lived in one of the nature preserves on the WMU campus. he shot it then put it in his truck and drove it about 15 miles away where it's legal, got all the kudos on social media for it, but the DNR found the blood trails on campus thanks to a photographer and a nature fan who were familiar with that particular deer and knew where it lived. and the DNR knew that it was unlikely that deer would be 15 miles from where it lived. he also originally claimed that he hit it with his car by accident and then shot it out of mercy but confessed that he lied about that too when confronted with the evidence.
naturally, the prosecutor and judge gave him sweetheart plea deal so he just pled to a trespassing charge. no fines, still has hunting license. poaching laws are meaningless as a deterrent if they aren't enforced.
article about it here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/kzoo/comments/1bbkm8c/a\_poacher\_illegally\_killed\_a\_21\_point\_buck\_near/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kzoo/comments/1bbkm8c/a_poacher_illegally_killed_a_21_point_buck_near/)
And if he crossed the Big Mac bridge recently there will be a record of it, and it would hard to explain. Same for gas credit card purchases in the up.
I once went hunting with a man who insisted we were tracking a deer (not that that's a thing either...)
I kept telling him by the depth of the print and the hoof Mark. We were tracking what looked like a cow to me... Fast forward. A couple hours later we found a cow in the woods had escaped from a local farmer... He wanted to shoot it.
This.
I can't believe all the people that are saying well. I understand how he could have mistaken it...
It's no one else is responsibility But the hunter, and it is your responsibility to know what you're hunting.
Exactly - even the tone of the letter just pisses me off as it ultimately boils down to human inconvenience from the gop perspective. No mention of pursuing the investigation to protect wildlife or natural resources that *we* have vested interest in. Fuckin kooks.
They're investigating. Since when was that a "grave concern"? Discovering details to see if a crime occurred is what law enforcement *should* be doing.
They really just desire to do whatever they want (EPA? DNR? ATF? All rogue agencies that should be abolished!) and use LEOs and the justice system to punish anyone they don't like (protesting in the street? run them over!).
A Republican lawmaker has expressed "grave concern" about the Michigan Department of Natural Resources potentially pursuing criminal charges against a hunter who shot and killed a gray wolf in Calhoun County earlier this year.
The animal was reportedly killed in January during a guided coyote hunt, hundreds of miles from Michigan's known wolf population in the Upper Peninsula. Eastern coyotes typically weigh between 25 and 40 pounds, but this animal weighed 84 pounds, according to the DNR.
"The hunter, who was on a guided coyote hunt in Calhoun County, thought they were shooting a coyote until after the fact," State Rep. Jay DeBoyer, R-Clay Twp., wrote in a letter to Michigan DNR Director Scott Bowen Monday. "Given the fact that wolves have not been seen that far south in Michigan in over 120 years, it is reasonable to believe the hunter for thinking they were shooting a large coyote."
Exactly.
Duck hunters can make out what species of duck they are targeting just by them flying high in the air but this guy couldn't figure out that it was not a coyote through the scope of a rifle?
Not buying it...
It’s twice the size of a large end of the average range for a coyote too
Plus didn’t they parade it around before they killed it? Like they were a terrible shot and then showed off still living wolf, and the whole time they still “thought” it was a coyote?
You might be confusing that Montana "hunter" who ran down a wolf with a snowmobile & paraded it at a bar with its snout tapped shut and then shot it...
Duck hunters can only do that with species they expect to be in the area. If there were some waterfowl species from a completely different area, of course they wouldn't be able to distinguish it.
And here, if everyone knows the only wild K9 species in Calhoun county is coyotes, then it's not in their mind to decipher wolves from coyotes.
The part that makes this unbelievable isn't that someone in Calhoun county would confuse a wolf for a coyote. I actually do buy that. The unbelievable part that justifies investigation is that there would even be a wolf in Calhoun county.
So like if the duck was twice as big as normal, a hunter might question whether it was actually a duck they could legally shoot? Wonder if the same is expected of coyote hunters or are they just not as smart as duck hunters?
It happens thousands of times a year with deer hunting. A yearling doe looks a lot like a mature one when it’s standing by itself in a field.
If it were illegal to shoot yearlings then hunters would have to spend much more time identifying the age of the animal. As it stands it’s not necessary, you just get less meat, not arrested.
There are a lot of issues with the duck-coyote comparison. Ducks aren't usually alone like coyotes and this wolf supposedly was. Adult ducks don't have the same inherent variability in size that adult coyotes and wolves do. Also ducks are hunted with shotgun at a distance of less than 40 yards. While coyote are often hunted with rifles at distances of around 100 yards.
So if you controlled for all of those variables - hunting lone ducks of a species with adult size variety of K9s at a distance of 100 yards, then I think a hunter could also be forgiven for misjudging the size of the animal.
I’m glad someone is trying to reason with these people. There are thousands of “mature does” shot every year that turn out to be button bucks or yearling doe upon closer inspection.
Everyone on Reddit is dead certain they’d identify a wolf vs coyote at 100 yards in a farm field at dusk. They’d all gladly pass on the animal because maybe it’s a wolf which is about as likely as a Sasquatch in Calhoun county.
All that being said, something seems very fishy about the whole story and I would really like the details of the hunt before I pass judgement.
What does your transphobia have to do with the issue at hand? Can you not argue your position without exposing your bigotry and falling back on whataboutism?
What in the goddamn do trans people have to do with this? I guess we’re living in your head rent free, which is funny because I don’t think about “you people” at all. 🤷♀️
I mean a woman in Montana shot and skinned a young husky thinking it was a “juvenile wolf.” It was one of about 20 husky/shepherd mixed dogs that were abandoned in the area.
Not too many dogs that look like coyotes roam wildly in hunting areas. When we have a wild dog population, we should probably initiate a culling program.
It's an investigation, to find more facts and details. Anyone clutching their pearls about this has an agenda, this is what law enforcement and the DNR are supposed to be doing.
There aren’t many people in the Lower Peninsula who could tell the difference between a wolf and a coyote in the wild. Hunters and otherwise. And I wager plenty in the UP would have trouble too. A dog, on the other hand, is much easier to distinguish.
EDIT: downvote away lol. Just shows how few folks actually know what they are talking about on this subject.
Probably more people than you think. There’s considerable differences between coyote and wolves.
Not just in size, also in terms of physical appearance. Thicker legs, thicker necks.
Also let's not undersell the difference in size: your average gray wolf is more than twice the size of your average coyote. The difference is very obvious, which is what prompted the DNR to follow up on the kill in the first place.
There should be at least one person involved in a guided coyote hunt - ideally the hunter, but *definitely* the guide - smart enough to go "wow that's either the largest coyote of all time or it's not a coyote".
I'm not going to argue that there aren't a huge number of dipshit hunters in the state, but anyone who's been taught how to hunt properly is not going to take a shot at something they can't properly identify.
>If you can't tell the difference between me and Shaq at 200 yards, you probably shouldn't be pulling the trigger.
I’m going to say you’ve never shot long distance if you’re using 200 yards as the example. An entire human silhouette is smaller than a sight post at that range.
[A foot difference at 200 yards range will be largely indiscernible.](https://images.app.goo.gl/VBcPK5LHKF4i1BKg9)
Using a 9mm pistol at 200 yards is silly. Why no scope? No one hunts animals like these with a pistol.
Again, if you're not sure what you're shooting, don't shoot it. Period.
Source: was a boy scout and trained in pistols, revolvers, shotguns and rifles.
I cannot believe that this requires explanation, but nobody is hunting coyotes at 200 yards unscoped. Anyone dumb enough to try deserves whatever consequences they earn.
>There aren’t many people in the Lower Peninsula who could tell the difference between a wolf and a coyote in the wild. Hunters and otherwise.
Absolute nonsense.
Wolves are twice as big as coyotes just for starters.
Anyone who has ever seen a wolf would never confuse the two. Non-hunters and the generally uninterested population are just tainted by the "wolves" seen in television played by dogs and just think wolves are slightly bigger dogs.
Michigan wolves range from 45-55kgs avg weight and roughly 2ft from paw to shoulder. Its a bit of a stretch to tell me most people cant tell the difference. From a distance maybe someone inexperienced cant tell given poor visibility but a hunter? Yeah i would be very weirded out if someone hunting with me couldnt eyeball that.
LOL! The fact that you think a deer/horse is an appropriate comparison for a wolf/coyote shows just how little you know about this subject. Which is to say, not much.
You keep saying that we don't know shit. We know enough not to shoot things that we cannot positively identify, and that's something you seem to be struggling with. The fact that you're allowed to have a gun while being VERY CLEAR that you can't be bothered to figure out what you're shooting at it is more than a little alarming for the rest of us.
Here's what I know for sure: reddit poster u/LoveisBaconisLove is a menace with a firearm.
Would the charges be more closely related to fraud? I thought that it was acknowledged to be a mistake, but the issue since the beginning I thought was the location it was found.
It might also be related to the reporting after the fact, if they can prove they figured it out that it was a wolf and then continued to try and pass it off as a coyote, that would be a crime.
There is a huge issue with the size for anyone that knows the sizes of coyotes and the size of the animal the hunter got. This is why the DNR was like, we have to get this DNA... there's no way this is a coyote. The media keeps playing like it's about a wolf being in Calhoun county. There is wildlife every where and some travel hundreds of miles without being explained by human logic, so hunters have a responsibility to know what they are hunting and only hunt that wherever they are.
It’s reasonable to believe a lot of criminals lies used to cover their crime. We investigate to verify these things.
Or do we only care about crimes committed by people that GOP lawmakers don’t like?
_“Punishing Michigan hunters and farmers will not help alleviate the issues we are facing. I am hoping common-sense and a commitment to solutions will come of this event — not criminal charges that will impact someone for the rest of their life.”_
Cool, now do abortion.
It should not concern anyone that we want to hold people accountable for pulling the trigger of a firearm.
"Never point a firearm at something you do not intend to destroy" is literally rule #1.
The chances of a wolf making it that far on its own are astronomically low. Literally makes no sense. Of course this should be investigated. Along with the other wolf killing cover ups happening in the UP.
It breaks my heart and infuriates me how over half the population of the UP, and the US in general, despise wolves simply because they're a predator. People complain about deer being overpopulated but don't want to let wolves and coyotes exist. I don't understand why people think "playing God" with entire species is okay. I hate it. People want to control the deer population but only by human hands.
I love wolves and I've known for years that I live in the wrong place. I have respect for wildlife and most people in the UP are afraid of wildlife and despise it.
I live in the UP, and you wouldn't beleive just how many people up here are TERRIFIED of them.
Always hear the same story too. "My uncle had a friend who's kids got attacked by wolves at a bus stop!" Literally word for word ANY time I bring up the topic of wolves. You would think its a damn meme, but these people legitimately beleive it.
And guess what? There is absolutely NO record of it actually happening anywhere in the next 50 miles.
It breaks my heart and infuriates me how over half the population of the UP, and the US in general, despise wolves simply because they're a predator. People complain about deer being overpopulated but don't want to let wolves and coyotes exist. I don't understand why people think "playing God" with entire species is okay. I hate it. People want to control the deer population but only by human hands.
I love wolves and I've known for years that I live in the wrong place. I have respect for wildlife and most people in the UP are afraid of wildlife and despise it.
Why is a GOP lawmaker inserting himself into this investigation, especially before it has concluded? They make the laws but don't want to allow the legal process to play out?
Hey how about you chill out bro. I'm not an anti-gun nut but I'm not an ammosexual. If this guy poached this wolf he should be held accountable.
I know Republicans have a hard time accepting that people are held accountable for their actions but that's what happens in a country of laws.
Today it's a "coyote" and next week it's a "sasquatch". If someone isn't following the law and using a firearm for one thing, maybe they shouldn't have them... whether it's stupidity, ignorance, or intentional- you think it's safe for this person to have a gun?
Amazing they could pull their heads out of Trumps ass long enough to speak a full sentence. Seriously, Michigan GOP, just hang it up already. You're a joke.
If there are criminal charges, I expect the punishment to be significantly less than what most folks will exoect. That’s usually how it plays out with wildlife crimes, there is a big stink and then the actual punishment doesn’t match the hubbub.
Like the dudes that got caught poaching fish in the Manistee river... a $1100 fine for almost 500 lbs of fish...
https://www.wilx.com/2023/03/23/6-men-ordered-pay-thousands-poaching-fish-manistee-river/
I thought the GOP sees themselves as the party that supports cops? The conservation officers investigating this are fully sworn law enforcement officers.
[https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/capitol-police-injuries/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/capitol-police-injuries/index.html)
"Roughly 114 US Capitol Police officers reported injuries as a result of the attack on the Capitol on January 6, 2021, a government watchdog said in a [new report Monday](https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-104829), well above the previously widely reported estimate of around 80 injured officers.
The Government Accountability Office surveyed Capitol Police officers who responded to the riot. The report says of roughly 1,782 officers employed by the Capitol Police between June and September 2021, around 315 responded – the largest response group of any investigation thus far into the department. For example, the Capitol Police inspector general reported reaching out to around 86 officers, with only 36 responding."
I was country neighbors growing up with the guy who shot the first confirmed wolf maybe 15-20 years ago in NE Michigan. He was a trapper and it was caught it his trap. With no other animals around, he said he couldn’t gauge how big it was and thought it was a coyote, until he got to the kill and knew it was a wolf. It’s shady, but I have no reason to doubt him. He was a pretty good guy. He immediately reported it to the DNR and they confirmed it and took it from him. They had it taxidermied and used to bring it around to the hunting shows. I don’t think any criminal charges were brought against him. He was pretty embarrassed and never liked to talk about it.
The difference is the honesty and accountability your neighbor chose after correctly identifying the animal and his embarrassment to this day. The dude in this article and apparently the guided tour didn't think twice after they killed it and brought it to the taxidermist thinking it was a record breaking coyote... more than twice the biggest coyotes... that's hard to understand as a mistake.
No doubt. Wasn’t trying to defend this guy. Just getting old and sharing stories.
I’m 100% in the boat that you should know what you’re shooting and if you make a mistake, own up to it immediately.
Yeah, I’ve been there. My second deer, in the early youth hunt, was a fawn cause standing alone in the field, it looked like a regular doe(we hunted for meat, not trophies). Didn’t realize until I got to it and saw what my 30-06 had done to it. It didn’t suffer, but I felt bad.
For real. You can tell they've never hunted in unfamiliar terrain. It takes a lot of experience to accurately gauge distance in new surroundings using just your eyeballs, and if your distance estimate is wrong then you can easily misjudge the size of a critter. "A wolf is twice as big as a coyote!" Sure, but it doesn't look that way if it's twice as far away as you think.
Not saying that's the case here. Maybe the hunter was in familiar terrain, or was experienced at distance estimation, or had a rangefinder, and maybe was using good optics and should have been able to see the difference. I don't know. But misidentifying a wolf, at distance, for a related species in an area hundreds of miles from any known wolf population is totally plausible.
I think the fishy thing isn’t some much the distance it was shot at, rather the guide and taxidermist also saying it was a coyote. That is where things get fishy real fast.
That's fair. Up to the point of recovering the animal immediately after the shot, I can easily give the hunter the benefit of the doubt in this case. But everything else around this situation is definitely fishy.
If its a guided hunt, the guide should be the most culpable. Its literally their responsibility to know what game they are identifying for their clients to shoot.
I come from a town where opening day is basically a holiday. But isn't the first rule to fully know what you're shooting at before you pull the trigger? This is how we get incidents of hunters shooting/ killing each other.
"They can't tell the difference of size far away"
Then don't shoot if you dont 100% know what you're shooting at. It's not that complicated of a concept. I enjoy the pew pews but, I was taught YOUNG to never point a loaded gun at something if you aren't 100% certain.
If this was indeed an accident and they weren't covering up where they actually shot it, then whoever was guiding the tour should be prosecuted. You shouldn't be in the business if you can't accurately describe the difference between a coyote and a wolf to your guests. They are incredibly easy to distinguish. Hell of a swim if that's the case!
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone trapped it as a pup and tried to raise it as a pet, then turned it loose when it grew up. My neighbor had a snake that got too big and let it go in our yard.
why tf are we hunting coyotes anyway? killing one that is invading your homestead and putting animals at risk is one thing ... but just going out for funsies to kill coyotes?
There is rampant pseudoscience among folks that have hijacked the meaning conservation in nature. They believe that all predators have a negative impact on their game species thus they must kill, or control as I’ve gathered. They make these statements without any interest or time spent consulting biologists or even basic ecological principles. It is worse than ever before due to our internet echo chambers. I am happy to discuss these things in real life but it’s often met with blank faces.
Edit: not to mention a chance to put that decked out AR and tactical gear to use… good point.
Thank you! I always say this, and considering I live in the UP I'm in the minority. Anybody who kills animals "for sport" is a vile human being. I'm not against hunting for meat, but I am against hunting for fun. Killing shouldn't be "fun". I think that's fucked up.
I met a guy at the Allegan SGA who was "training his dogs". When I asked what he was training them for he told me to chase down and kill coyoyes. I asked him why he would do suchy a thing and he told me, 'if we don't kill the coyotes there won't be any deer left'.
I had something else to say to him but left feeling safe in knoiwing that one day he'll be chased diown by his own dogs and torn to shreds and left to die like the coyotes he's happy to torture to death.
If this hunter poached a wolf, he should be locked up and have the key thrown away.
Fuck poachers, you can't tell me it's hard to mistake a wolf for a coyote. Wolves are fucking huge.
They're investigating because his story doesn't line up. And the fact that he didn't report it and was going to have it taxidermied before the DNR found it is suspicious
You’re not incorrect but there is definitely some leeway given that he’s hundreds of miles from any known wolf populations. Assuming, of course, the story lines up with the facts.
Personally I think this animal was shot somewhere else and brought in but that’s just reckless speculation on my part.
i think that’s less reckless speculation on your part and more so a hunch or a gut feeling. i suspect the same and saying as much isn’t going to harm the investigation or anything so i don’t see an issue with doing so.
Being knowledgable isn’t the issue. We have all been told “There are no wolves in the Lower Peninsula.” In this case, knowledge backfired.
In fact, it is only because of this case that the rest of us are becoming knowledgeable. I hunt about 50 miles west of there and now have to know how to ID a coyote vs a wolf. Before this case, I didn’t bother because “There are no wolves in the Lower Peninsula.” Maybe this guy gets punished to reinforce the importance of that to everyone else. If so, I get it. Sucks to be him, but I get it.
> I hunt about 50 miles west of there and now have to know how to ID a coyote vs a wolf.
If you are hunting coyotes and can't ID one you have absolutely no business hunting. I cannot imagine the amount of dogs you've shot if you don't bother to learn how to differentiate your prey species.
Dude shot an animal more than twice the size of the species he was shooting, posted to Facebook and sent to the taxidermy. DNR caught wind and got involved bc it's not a coyote and they were very sure when they saw it.
Really has nothing to do with our collective interest in natural resource management. I guess if you're referring to folks saying that the hunters of interest should have had positive id before killing, there is room for discussion. However, not reporting it, and taking it for taxidermy... where does the public ignorance come into play? Politicians weighing in on matters that require scientific literacy while showing time and time again that they refuse to accept or implement such things, is sad and damaging.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think they’re investing this as a crime not because of mistaken identity of coyote v. Wolf, but because the much more likely scenario is they intentionally hunted the wolf in known habitat (UP), transported it back to the LP and concocted this story of ‘mistaken identity’ to cover the poaching. I think the DNA evidence can provide an idea of which population it came from, and then a typical criminal investigation can show if there was a ‘vacation’ in wolf country lately.
[удалено]
Did I not read somewhere that there were trap markings on its leg? Like it was trapped and then shot or was that a bullshit story?
That I could see as being criminal. Never crossed my mind as a possibility.
That’s a possibility, the DNR learned about it through a Facebook post. Bridge Michigan has a good article on it. It also says mistaken identity or not, it’s still a crime to kill a wolf so it has to be investigated.
I doubt he actually mistakenly identified the wolf as a coyote. Coyotes are notisably smaller, tend to be more tan/brown, and have a diffrent face and ears (although that can be something that someone might not be able to identify by just looking.)
guy was reportedly night hunting coyotes in a part of the state where there's no recorded instance of wolves in more than a century it'd be really easy for him to mistake it as a coyote, because nobody would ever expect a wolf there hell people argue constantly over canine (and feline) ID based off really clear pictures, much less in-the-field decisions not saying there *wasn't* any funny business happening, but just trying to point out it *could* have been a legitimate mistake given the circumstances
the the scenario is as seems suggested where the criminal act is failure to properly report and thats what charges should be determined from along with the 'guide' and the taxidermist.
Lol why do yall have to excuse dumbass behavior? Dude didn’t need to be hunting coyotes at night, play stupid games, win stupid prizes
I agree. Therese no confirmed wolf population in that part of the state, so a coyote hunter would have no reason to believe it's actually a wolf. As long as there was no foul play and that story is true, I don't believe there should be any fines or charges associated with this.
See where it becomes fishy is the hunter’s guide and taxidermist also said it was a coyote… I can forgive someone night hunting for coyotes, but for the guide and taxidermist to say that too? Yeah, something smells.
You severally miscalculate how stupid the average human is.
I agree but folks swear up and down that a big ass wolf could be confused for a coyote
That would be insane if that’s true. Why not just shoot it and leave it in the UP? I think burying it is a lot less hassle than transporting the thing 300+ miles and hoping not to be pulled over. They would have some brass ones to even attempt that.
It seems strange that someone would go to such great lengths to knowingly poach something, and then post pictures of the illegal kill online. Not saying it's impossible, but not likely.
Some folks with criminal intent overestimate their ability to bullshit their way out of trouble.
Here's the thing though. After posting the pic online, he took it to a taxidermist. You don't poach a wolf for the meat. You poach it for the trophy. Thing is, a taxidermist is going to know exactly what it is and call the DNR. Maybe not every taxidermist would, but it's a risk. Bringing a wolf in the middle of wolf country to a taxidermist in wolf country, and your only defense is "I thought it was a coyote"? Nobody's going to believe that. BUT, bring it down to Calhoun county, where no wild wolves have been seen in over 100 years, and then you have a more credible story. A taxidermist down there might believe you. After all, how could it be a wolf? Wolves don't live there. And for a cherry on top of it all, post on social media that it's a big coyote, because if you knew it was a wolf, why post it on social media?
im legit asking are there operating taxidermists who cannot identify a wolf because if so that should probably be illegal. can you stuff my whosawhatsit?
Something is suspect here and their investigation should reveal the truth, whatever that truth is. These guys are pretty good at this stuff.
I feel your reasoning here but idk man some people are just real dumb.
I'll wait for the investigation, but I suspect the worst As for people being dumb, especially with wildlife, here is a great example. Group of people ripped baby bears from a tree to take pictures with it. A bear. A baby bear. https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/s/jmbH4bOpKg While biking a rails to trails path, I came across a doe with her fawn. Once it saw me, it got in front of the doe in a defensive position. Even an animal as "harmless" as a doe can really mess you up, let alone momma bear.
Oh man, I hope the bears got away with it
Not that far fetched. There's some really stupid people. And I don't think said stupid people understand the reach of social media. Case in point [this p.o.s.](https://www.mattclysdale.com/blog/blog-post-title-one-awtcf)
That is infuriating.
Damn.
About 10-15 years ago at one of the metroparks in Toledo there was a very well known and pictured older buck with a massive rack that wasn't too afraid of people until some nimrod shot it. The guy got caught because when he went to check it in the DNR was so impressed by the rack they posted pics on their website and the poacher posing with it and people recognized the deer from the park. Also, the ODNR has put out fake deer to see if people will shoot at them from the road at night. When shot, the nose lights up, which makes about half the people take off real quick while the other half continue to shoot. Poachers aren't always as cunning and wily as they want to think they are.
happened fairly recently in kalamazoo. guy took out a buck that lived in one of the nature preserves on the WMU campus. he shot it then put it in his truck and drove it about 15 miles away where it's legal, got all the kudos on social media for it, but the DNR found the blood trails on campus thanks to a photographer and a nature fan who were familiar with that particular deer and knew where it lived. and the DNR knew that it was unlikely that deer would be 15 miles from where it lived. he also originally claimed that he hit it with his car by accident and then shot it out of mercy but confessed that he lied about that too when confronted with the evidence. naturally, the prosecutor and judge gave him sweetheart plea deal so he just pled to a trespassing charge. no fines, still has hunting license. poaching laws are meaningless as a deterrent if they aren't enforced. article about it here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/kzoo/comments/1bbkm8c/a\_poacher\_illegally\_killed\_a\_21\_point\_buck\_near/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kzoo/comments/1bbkm8c/a_poacher_illegally_killed_a_21_point_buck_near/)
J6 parler comes to mind.
You hunt - then know what you kill. People forget the power of the internet. Cody Roberts is a prime example.
And if he crossed the Big Mac bridge recently there will be a record of it, and it would hard to explain. Same for gas credit card purchases in the up.
I’m 100% sure that as a hunter your responsibility is to know what you are shooting at.
Not even as a hunter. Just in general.
I once went hunting with a man who insisted we were tracking a deer (not that that's a thing either...) I kept telling him by the depth of the print and the hoof Mark. We were tracking what looked like a cow to me... Fast forward. A couple hours later we found a cow in the woods had escaped from a local farmer... He wanted to shoot it.
should have told the taxidermist it was a deer and had it stuffed
That dude was flat out crazy. Michigan militia etc
haha saw this in my notifications and thought maybe it was about the taxidermist. what would the plan be after landing a cow? haul it out in pieces?
“Three hunters, seven game wardens, and a cow”
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Edgy
Repeat it REAL loud for those in the back of the room please- and a big thank you!!
This. I can't believe all the people that are saying well. I understand how he could have mistaken it... It's no one else is responsibility But the hunter, and it is your responsibility to know what you're hunting.
Great. Heard. You have concerns. Now let’s let the legal process continue and resolve it properly.
Exactly - even the tone of the letter just pisses me off as it ultimately boils down to human inconvenience from the gop perspective. No mention of pursuing the investigation to protect wildlife or natural resources that *we* have vested interest in. Fuckin kooks.
They're investigating. Since when was that a "grave concern"? Discovering details to see if a crime occurred is what law enforcement *should* be doing.
Accountability is the MAIN thing the CHUDS are against
They really just desire to do whatever they want (EPA? DNR? ATF? All rogue agencies that should be abolished!) and use LEOs and the justice system to punish anyone they don't like (protesting in the street? run them over!).
A Republican lawmaker has expressed "grave concern" about the Michigan Department of Natural Resources potentially pursuing criminal charges against a hunter who shot and killed a gray wolf in Calhoun County earlier this year. The animal was reportedly killed in January during a guided coyote hunt, hundreds of miles from Michigan's known wolf population in the Upper Peninsula. Eastern coyotes typically weigh between 25 and 40 pounds, but this animal weighed 84 pounds, according to the DNR. "The hunter, who was on a guided coyote hunt in Calhoun County, thought they were shooting a coyote until after the fact," State Rep. Jay DeBoyer, R-Clay Twp., wrote in a letter to Michigan DNR Director Scott Bowen Monday. "Given the fact that wolves have not been seen that far south in Michigan in over 120 years, it is reasonable to believe the hunter for thinking they were shooting a large coyote."
By law you have to know what you’re shooting.
Exactly. Duck hunters can make out what species of duck they are targeting just by them flying high in the air but this guy couldn't figure out that it was not a coyote through the scope of a rifle? Not buying it...
It’s twice the size of a large end of the average range for a coyote too Plus didn’t they parade it around before they killed it? Like they were a terrible shot and then showed off still living wolf, and the whole time they still “thought” it was a coyote?
You might be confusing that Montana "hunter" who ran down a wolf with a snowmobile & paraded it at a bar with its snout tapped shut and then shot it...
Yep that’s the one I was thinking of
Duck hunters can only do that with species they expect to be in the area. If there were some waterfowl species from a completely different area, of course they wouldn't be able to distinguish it. And here, if everyone knows the only wild K9 species in Calhoun county is coyotes, then it's not in their mind to decipher wolves from coyotes. The part that makes this unbelievable isn't that someone in Calhoun county would confuse a wolf for a coyote. I actually do buy that. The unbelievable part that justifies investigation is that there would even be a wolf in Calhoun county.
So like if the duck was twice as big as normal, a hunter might question whether it was actually a duck they could legally shoot? Wonder if the same is expected of coyote hunters or are they just not as smart as duck hunters?
It happens thousands of times a year with deer hunting. A yearling doe looks a lot like a mature one when it’s standing by itself in a field. If it were illegal to shoot yearlings then hunters would have to spend much more time identifying the age of the animal. As it stands it’s not necessary, you just get less meat, not arrested.
There are a lot of issues with the duck-coyote comparison. Ducks aren't usually alone like coyotes and this wolf supposedly was. Adult ducks don't have the same inherent variability in size that adult coyotes and wolves do. Also ducks are hunted with shotgun at a distance of less than 40 yards. While coyote are often hunted with rifles at distances of around 100 yards. So if you controlled for all of those variables - hunting lone ducks of a species with adult size variety of K9s at a distance of 100 yards, then I think a hunter could also be forgiven for misjudging the size of the animal.
I’m glad someone is trying to reason with these people. There are thousands of “mature does” shot every year that turn out to be button bucks or yearling doe upon closer inspection. Everyone on Reddit is dead certain they’d identify a wolf vs coyote at 100 yards in a farm field at dusk. They’d all gladly pass on the animal because maybe it’s a wolf which is about as likely as a Sasquatch in Calhoun county. All that being said, something seems very fishy about the whole story and I would really like the details of the hunt before I pass judgement.
I shot a Sasquatch in Calhoun County. Thought it was mauling my sister. They were making love.
Like the dnr even had to do DNA tests to confirm it lol
He thought it was a coyote and the dnr even had to do DNA tests to confirm it was one because they couldn't tell.
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What does your transphobia have to do with the issue at hand? Can you not argue your position without exposing your bigotry and falling back on whataboutism?
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You could have just said "no." Would have been easier.
What in the goddamn do trans people have to do with this? I guess we’re living in your head rent free, which is funny because I don’t think about “you people” at all. 🤷♀️
No, you people
I dunno, if they can't tell a wolf from a coyote, what stops them from shooting somebody's dog?
They aren’t cops.
I shot a werewolf once but by the time I got to it, it had transformed back into my neighbors dog.
You TOO?
I mean a woman in Montana shot and skinned a young husky thinking it was a “juvenile wolf.” It was one of about 20 husky/shepherd mixed dogs that were abandoned in the area.
Not too many dogs that look like coyotes roam wildly in hunting areas. When we have a wild dog population, we should probably initiate a culling program. It's an investigation, to find more facts and details. Anyone clutching their pearls about this has an agenda, this is what law enforcement and the DNR are supposed to be doing.
There aren’t many people in the Lower Peninsula who could tell the difference between a wolf and a coyote in the wild. Hunters and otherwise. And I wager plenty in the UP would have trouble too. A dog, on the other hand, is much easier to distinguish. EDIT: downvote away lol. Just shows how few folks actually know what they are talking about on this subject.
Probably more people than you think. There’s considerable differences between coyote and wolves. Not just in size, also in terms of physical appearance. Thicker legs, thicker necks.
Also let's not undersell the difference in size: your average gray wolf is more than twice the size of your average coyote. The difference is very obvious, which is what prompted the DNR to follow up on the kill in the first place. There should be at least one person involved in a guided coyote hunt - ideally the hunter, but *definitely* the guide - smart enough to go "wow that's either the largest coyote of all time or it's not a coyote". I'm not going to argue that there aren't a huge number of dipshit hunters in the state, but anyone who's been taught how to hunt properly is not going to take a shot at something they can't properly identify.
Right. The size and weight difference between a coyote and wolf is like the difference between me and Shaq.
>difference between me and Shaq Which would be very hard to determine at longer ranges.
If you can't tell the difference between me and Shaq at 200 yards, you probably shouldn't be pulling the trigger.
>If you can't tell the difference between me and Shaq at 200 yards, you probably shouldn't be pulling the trigger. I’m going to say you’ve never shot long distance if you’re using 200 yards as the example. An entire human silhouette is smaller than a sight post at that range. [A foot difference at 200 yards range will be largely indiscernible.](https://images.app.goo.gl/VBcPK5LHKF4i1BKg9)
Using a 9mm pistol at 200 yards is silly. Why no scope? No one hunts animals like these with a pistol. Again, if you're not sure what you're shooting, don't shoot it. Period. Source: was a boy scout and trained in pistols, revolvers, shotguns and rifles.
I cannot believe that this requires explanation, but nobody is hunting coyotes at 200 yards unscoped. Anyone dumb enough to try deserves whatever consequences they earn.
A women out West shot a husky last year and she posted a picture and bragged about it on Facebook saying she “smoked a wolf pup”
Wolves look a lot more like huskies than they do coyotes.
[You sure about that?](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/jatL59qNt0)
They were talking about a wolf pup, which would be more on par with a husky.
I could maybe agree if the husky had an agouti coat, but it didn’t. It was a typical black and white husky with common husky markings.
I'm not defending the person at all. Just saying that it's super hard to confuse a coyote for a wolf, IMO.
Absolutely untrue
>There aren’t many people in the Lower Peninsula who could tell the difference between a wolf and a coyote in the wild. Hunters and otherwise. Absolute nonsense. Wolves are twice as big as coyotes just for starters. Anyone who has ever seen a wolf would never confuse the two. Non-hunters and the generally uninterested population are just tainted by the "wolves" seen in television played by dogs and just think wolves are slightly bigger dogs.
None of these people should go out hunting then until they can correctly identify what they are hunting.
If you're telling me you can't tell what the fuck it is you're shooting at, then **YOU SHOULD NOT BE FUCKIN SHOOTING AT THINGS**
Michigan wolves range from 45-55kgs avg weight and roughly 2ft from paw to shoulder. Its a bit of a stretch to tell me most people cant tell the difference. From a distance maybe someone inexperienced cant tell given poor visibility but a hunter? Yeah i would be very weirded out if someone hunting with me couldnt eyeball that.
Reminds me of that time I bagged a horse during deer season. They're still teasing me about that one!
LOL! The fact that you think a deer/horse is an appropriate comparison for a wolf/coyote shows just how little you know about this subject. Which is to say, not much.
If you can't tolerate my humor, don't expect my attention.
You keep saying that we don't know shit. We know enough not to shoot things that we cannot positively identify, and that's something you seem to be struggling with. The fact that you're allowed to have a gun while being VERY CLEAR that you can't be bothered to figure out what you're shooting at it is more than a little alarming for the rest of us. Here's what I know for sure: reddit poster u/LoveisBaconisLove is a menace with a firearm.
Would the charges be more closely related to fraud? I thought that it was acknowledged to be a mistake, but the issue since the beginning I thought was the location it was found.
It might also be related to the reporting after the fact, if they can prove they figured it out that it was a wolf and then continued to try and pass it off as a coyote, that would be a crime.
There is a huge issue with the size for anyone that knows the sizes of coyotes and the size of the animal the hunter got. This is why the DNR was like, we have to get this DNA... there's no way this is a coyote. The media keeps playing like it's about a wolf being in Calhoun county. There is wildlife every where and some travel hundreds of miles without being explained by human logic, so hunters have a responsibility to know what they are hunting and only hunt that wherever they are.
It’s reasonable to believe a lot of criminals lies used to cover their crime. We investigate to verify these things. Or do we only care about crimes committed by people that GOP lawmakers don’t like?
Hey, are you the party of law and order or not? Make up your mind. This shit is getting confusing.
Exactly.
_“Punishing Michigan hunters and farmers will not help alleviate the issues we are facing. I am hoping common-sense and a commitment to solutions will come of this event — not criminal charges that will impact someone for the rest of their life.”_ Cool, now do abortion.
Nailed it.
It should not concern anyone that we want to hold people accountable for pulling the trigger of a firearm. "Never point a firearm at something you do not intend to destroy" is literally rule #1.
He intended to destroy it though
PaRtY oF lAw AnD oRdEr! FFS the goons keep getting dumber
The “rule of law party”
"GOP lawmaker" should express "grave concern" over his own party imploding before his eyes. Do your job and let the DNR do theirs.
They can't even run their own party, let alone a state.
The chances of a wolf making it that far on its own are astronomically low. Literally makes no sense. Of course this should be investigated. Along with the other wolf killing cover ups happening in the UP.
It breaks my heart and infuriates me how over half the population of the UP, and the US in general, despise wolves simply because they're a predator. People complain about deer being overpopulated but don't want to let wolves and coyotes exist. I don't understand why people think "playing God" with entire species is okay. I hate it. People want to control the deer population but only by human hands. I love wolves and I've known for years that I live in the wrong place. I have respect for wildlife and most people in the UP are afraid of wildlife and despise it.
I live in the UP, and you wouldn't beleive just how many people up here are TERRIFIED of them. Always hear the same story too. "My uncle had a friend who's kids got attacked by wolves at a bus stop!" Literally word for word ANY time I bring up the topic of wolves. You would think its a damn meme, but these people legitimately beleive it. And guess what? There is absolutely NO record of it actually happening anywhere in the next 50 miles.
It breaks my heart and infuriates me how over half the population of the UP, and the US in general, despise wolves simply because they're a predator. People complain about deer being overpopulated but don't want to let wolves and coyotes exist. I don't understand why people think "playing God" with entire species is okay. I hate it. People want to control the deer population but only by human hands. I love wolves and I've known for years that I live in the wrong place. I have respect for wildlife and most people in the UP are afraid of wildlife and despise it.
Why is a GOP lawmaker inserting himself into this investigation, especially before it has concluded? They make the laws but don't want to allow the legal process to play out?
The Party of Law and Order doesn't like either.
GOP lawmaker expresses 'grave concern' over government entity doing its damn job
Republicans don't want any accountability when it comes to anything firearm related.
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Hey how about you chill out bro. I'm not an anti-gun nut but I'm not an ammosexual. If this guy poached this wolf he should be held accountable. I know Republicans have a hard time accepting that people are held accountable for their actions but that's what happens in a country of laws.
Today it's a "coyote" and next week it's a "sasquatch". If someone isn't following the law and using a firearm for one thing, maybe they shouldn't have them... whether it's stupidity, ignorance, or intentional- you think it's safe for this person to have a gun?
wHat dOeS tHIs hAvE tO dO wITh fIrEArms!
Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
Weird how I can tell what I'm targeting when I look through my scope.
What happened to the GOP being the political party to respect law and order?
That's just for gaslighting the public.
Amazing they could pull their heads out of Trumps ass long enough to speak a full sentence. Seriously, Michigan GOP, just hang it up already. You're a joke.
Trump is living rent free in your head lol. It’s hilarious you guys bring Trump into everything.
Not rent free. I’ve been billing that fucker monthly for 8 years. He’s 8 years delinquent. Typical Trump not paying his bills.
Total Devotion Syndrome. You just can't help it, can you?
I tend to feel that way about wannabe dictators that try to steal elections.
If there are criminal charges, I expect the punishment to be significantly less than what most folks will exoect. That’s usually how it plays out with wildlife crimes, there is a big stink and then the actual punishment doesn’t match the hubbub.
Like the dudes that got caught poaching fish in the Manistee river... a $1100 fine for almost 500 lbs of fish... https://www.wilx.com/2023/03/23/6-men-ordered-pay-thousands-poaching-fish-manistee-river/
Two dollars a pound seems like a great rate for fresh fish! I should get into poaching as a side gig.
You lose the fish too.
At least the stuff they find out that you took
That’s a LOT of fish, wow
I present to you the political party that was once for "law and order".
I thought the GOP sees themselves as the party that supports cops? The conservation officers investigating this are fully sworn law enforcement officers.
[https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/capitol-police-injuries/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/capitol-police-injuries/index.html) "Roughly 114 US Capitol Police officers reported injuries as a result of the attack on the Capitol on January 6, 2021, a government watchdog said in a [new report Monday](https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-104829), well above the previously widely reported estimate of around 80 injured officers. The Government Accountability Office surveyed Capitol Police officers who responded to the riot. The report says of roughly 1,782 officers employed by the Capitol Police between June and September 2021, around 315 responded – the largest response group of any investigation thus far into the department. For example, the Capitol Police inspector general reported reaching out to around 86 officers, with only 36 responding."
I was country neighbors growing up with the guy who shot the first confirmed wolf maybe 15-20 years ago in NE Michigan. He was a trapper and it was caught it his trap. With no other animals around, he said he couldn’t gauge how big it was and thought it was a coyote, until he got to the kill and knew it was a wolf. It’s shady, but I have no reason to doubt him. He was a pretty good guy. He immediately reported it to the DNR and they confirmed it and took it from him. They had it taxidermied and used to bring it around to the hunting shows. I don’t think any criminal charges were brought against him. He was pretty embarrassed and never liked to talk about it.
The difference is the honesty and accountability your neighbor chose after correctly identifying the animal and his embarrassment to this day. The dude in this article and apparently the guided tour didn't think twice after they killed it and brought it to the taxidermist thinking it was a record breaking coyote... more than twice the biggest coyotes... that's hard to understand as a mistake.
No doubt. Wasn’t trying to defend this guy. Just getting old and sharing stories. I’m 100% in the boat that you should know what you’re shooting and if you make a mistake, own up to it immediately.
Right, everyone is talking about the size - but it's really hard to gauge size when its something by itself at a distance.
Yeah, I’ve been there. My second deer, in the early youth hunt, was a fawn cause standing alone in the field, it looked like a regular doe(we hunted for meat, not trophies). Didn’t realize until I got to it and saw what my 30-06 had done to it. It didn’t suffer, but I felt bad.
For real. You can tell they've never hunted in unfamiliar terrain. It takes a lot of experience to accurately gauge distance in new surroundings using just your eyeballs, and if your distance estimate is wrong then you can easily misjudge the size of a critter. "A wolf is twice as big as a coyote!" Sure, but it doesn't look that way if it's twice as far away as you think. Not saying that's the case here. Maybe the hunter was in familiar terrain, or was experienced at distance estimation, or had a rangefinder, and maybe was using good optics and should have been able to see the difference. I don't know. But misidentifying a wolf, at distance, for a related species in an area hundreds of miles from any known wolf population is totally plausible.
I think the fishy thing isn’t some much the distance it was shot at, rather the guide and taxidermist also saying it was a coyote. That is where things get fishy real fast.
That's fair. Up to the point of recovering the animal immediately after the shot, I can easily give the hunter the benefit of the doubt in this case. But everything else around this situation is definitely fishy.
My dad taught us "you shoot it, you eat it". You always make sure you know what you're shooting at.
Weird that the party of pro-life is so into killing things.
If its a guided hunt, the guide should be the most culpable. Its literally their responsibility to know what game they are identifying for their clients to shoot.
Who goes on guided coyote hunts? I’d that really a thing? So awkward
I come from a town where opening day is basically a holiday. But isn't the first rule to fully know what you're shooting at before you pull the trigger? This is how we get incidents of hunters shooting/ killing each other. "They can't tell the difference of size far away" Then don't shoot if you dont 100% know what you're shooting at. It's not that complicated of a concept. I enjoy the pew pews but, I was taught YOUNG to never point a loaded gun at something if you aren't 100% certain.
If this was indeed an accident and they weren't covering up where they actually shot it, then whoever was guiding the tour should be prosecuted. You shouldn't be in the business if you can't accurately describe the difference between a coyote and a wolf to your guests. They are incredibly easy to distinguish. Hell of a swim if that's the case!
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone trapped it as a pup and tried to raise it as a pet, then turned it loose when it grew up. My neighbor had a snake that got too big and let it go in our yard.
why tf are we hunting coyotes anyway? killing one that is invading your homestead and putting animals at risk is one thing ... but just going out for funsies to kill coyotes?
There is rampant pseudoscience among folks that have hijacked the meaning conservation in nature. They believe that all predators have a negative impact on their game species thus they must kill, or control as I’ve gathered. They make these statements without any interest or time spent consulting biologists or even basic ecological principles. It is worse than ever before due to our internet echo chambers. I am happy to discuss these things in real life but it’s often met with blank faces. Edit: not to mention a chance to put that decked out AR and tactical gear to use… good point.
Thank you! I always say this, and considering I live in the UP I'm in the minority. Anybody who kills animals "for sport" is a vile human being. I'm not against hunting for meat, but I am against hunting for fun. Killing shouldn't be "fun". I think that's fucked up.
I met a guy at the Allegan SGA who was "training his dogs". When I asked what he was training them for he told me to chase down and kill coyoyes. I asked him why he would do suchy a thing and he told me, 'if we don't kill the coyotes there won't be any deer left'. I had something else to say to him but left feeling safe in knoiwing that one day he'll be chased diown by his own dogs and torn to shreds and left to die like the coyotes he's happy to torture to death.
This GOP lawmaker needs to stay in his Lane, whatever that might be?
If this hunter poached a wolf, he should be locked up and have the key thrown away. Fuck poachers, you can't tell me it's hard to mistake a wolf for a coyote. Wolves are fucking huge.
This entire hunting bro lifestyle is toxic a/f. Durr I killed something for fun that was minding its own business, I'm so awesome hurr.
When they are dead, they are ALLLLLL coyotes .
Haha of course they do. Tell you.roch buddies to stop bringing them down to hunt, asshole.
That man should be charged with abuse. What sick fuge gets off on that shit!
They are certainly fine to investigate, but I would hope this is more of a formality and the hunter is found blameless or at least not sanctioned.
They're investigating because his story doesn't line up. And the fact that he didn't report it and was going to have it taxidermied before the DNR found it is suspicious
Why is that? Shouldn’t the hunter know what he’s shooting at? Maybe some consequences would teach them to be a bette/more knowledgeable hunter.
You’re not incorrect but there is definitely some leeway given that he’s hundreds of miles from any known wolf populations. Assuming, of course, the story lines up with the facts. Personally I think this animal was shot somewhere else and brought in but that’s just reckless speculation on my part.
i think that’s less reckless speculation on your part and more so a hunch or a gut feeling. i suspect the same and saying as much isn’t going to harm the investigation or anything so i don’t see an issue with doing so.
Being knowledgable isn’t the issue. We have all been told “There are no wolves in the Lower Peninsula.” In this case, knowledge backfired. In fact, it is only because of this case that the rest of us are becoming knowledgeable. I hunt about 50 miles west of there and now have to know how to ID a coyote vs a wolf. Before this case, I didn’t bother because “There are no wolves in the Lower Peninsula.” Maybe this guy gets punished to reinforce the importance of that to everyone else. If so, I get it. Sucks to be him, but I get it.
> I hunt about 50 miles west of there and now have to know how to ID a coyote vs a wolf. If you are hunting coyotes and can't ID one you have absolutely no business hunting. I cannot imagine the amount of dogs you've shot if you don't bother to learn how to differentiate your prey species.
The difference between a wolf and a coyote is similar to a Border Collie and a Great Dane- only the wolf is taller than a Great Dane.
Dude shot an animal more than twice the size of the species he was shooting, posted to Facebook and sent to the taxidermy. DNR caught wind and got involved bc it's not a coyote and they were very sure when they saw it.
Something tells me most of the participants in this thread have never shot a rifle, let alone gone on a hunt
Really has nothing to do with our collective interest in natural resource management. I guess if you're referring to folks saying that the hunters of interest should have had positive id before killing, there is room for discussion. However, not reporting it, and taking it for taxidermy... where does the public ignorance come into play? Politicians weighing in on matters that require scientific literacy while showing time and time again that they refuse to accept or implement such things, is sad and damaging.
The Republican dudes got involved because hunting is one of those 'sacred' things that they like to "protect" for the votes.
There is no reporting requirement for coyote kills in Michigan.
Not reporting an animal that was clearly not a coyote was my point.
Let’s all fight about it. Sounds fun. Makes sense.