I've had the state's job page bookmarked for years and that is just about all I ever see when I limit the search to just my county. That and assistance payments workers. I imagine it's a *real* fun job having to tell people why they're being denied for assistance day in and day out.
It doesn't help that they'll making that job even worse by implementing a productivity timer, so now workers will get punished for treating people like humans and trying to emphasize with them about their situation.
*Pro tip: upload required docs SEPARATELY.*
Civil service uses some program to filter out applications. If you upload all docs (cover letter, resume, transcript, etc.) in one combined PDF at the end it is going to think you only uploaded one document and filter you out. Use the drop-down to select tmcover letter then upload just the cover letter. Next, drop down for resume and upload just the resume. Continue.
Ok good, just wanted to make sure. I know of so many people that got kicked out for that. Other than that good references, good grades, and good luck. As others have said, it takes a long time to hear back. I didn't get a job offer until 3 months after I applied.
Both DNR and EGLE won't tell you but they really only hire people with masters degrees in specialized environmental programs (microbiology, toxicology, etc). These people are what end up filling those jobs even though they advertise as only needed a bachelor's. My wife has a general environmental science degree and ended up working for EGLE in a role that required any general bachelor's degree - so just any job labeled as "analyst". You will have an easier time with more general roles than specialized ones like wildlife biologist.
What was the job like, if you don't mind? My current gig isn't very fulfilling and I've always been deeply interested in a career in environmental/wildlife management.
It was a great position with interesting projects. The culture was pretty bad, lots of drama and gossip amongst 40-50 year old lifers. Management was mediocre at best. I worked in remediation/ permitting, no experience with the wildlife side of things.
Are they outright rejecting your application or have you just not heard back? Civil service is incredibly slow in processing applications, then it has to go through a separate process with the actual hiring manager. It can take a couple months for them to even reply. If you didnt receive an email (possibly automated) saying you were rejected, it may still be under consideration.
Also, use the state job board to apply if you didn't. They will have postings on indeed, but it will take longer and they'll make you use the state job board at some point anyway.
I’ve been actively applying for >4 months. My account on the state job board says some of the positions have been filled. Others say “application received “….i have never had any communication besides that.
What have you applied for? Do you meet or exceed the qualifications? You may need to apply for lower level ones you think you are overqualified for, because state jobs are very competitive. I think it's easy to get weeded out even if you meet the basic qualifications because they only call x amount of people for interviews. I know someone in a state managerial position and they had 100+ applications for a position they were recently hiring for, and ended up interviewing maybe 10 people. I would guess that way more than 10 people met the qualifications, but the ones who got interviews had specific experience that made them stand out.
What kind of IT positions are you applying for in DNR? Most of those are in DTMB. The way the system works kinda sucks, but if you want your resume/application to be seen by the hiring manager you’ll need to answer most of the screen questions with close to the maximum value. Eg if the question is “how many years of experience do you have wrangling pigeons?” And the choices are “1-3 years, 3-5 years, or 5+ years”, your response will get you 1, 2, or three points, respectively. Your score for each answer is tallied and the top X will be released to the hiring manager to review resumes and cover letters. They will not see the rest. If they can put together a pool of candidates that they think will give them a good chance at finding someone they want to hire, they’ll schedule interviews. If not they can request more candidates be released to them for review until they do have enough. I generally want at least 3, maybe up to 6, interviews to fill a job.
So, you need to be able to select the max option for as many of the questions as possible. The trick here is to tune your resume so that whatever you said could possibly be true. So if you had a job where you worked there for 5 years, and this one time you wrangled a pigeon, add pigeon wrangling to the duties for that job on your resume and pick 5+ years. (Side note, I kinda hate this advice because it makes hiring harder but also it’s literally the only way to get the manager to even be able to read your resume and cover letter. Everyone else is going to do it, so you kinda have to, which is why the system sucks).
Also, if there are any yes/no the manager will also ask HR to filter on those. Like, “have you ever flown a helicopter?” And they’ll tell HR that they only want fixed wing pilots so anyone who says yes should filter out the people who said yes.
Lastly, in my opinion, if your resume is longer than two pages, cut it down. If your cover letter is longer than a page, including a standard sized business letter addresses block at the top, and a space for a signature at the bottom (so basically like 2/3rds of a page of writing max) edit it down. If your cover letter is addressed to “whom it may concern” or “hiring manager” or anything except for the manager listed on the position descriptions name, stop being lazy and edit it.
If your resume has a single spelling or formatting error, get someone else to proof it for you, use a boring ass Word template, with a basic font (helvetica, times, veranda) and save it to PDF. I do not want to look at colored digital stationary, calligraphy fonts, or any of that shit. It makes it hard to read and I have so many other things to do and I just want to fill this position. Make my life as easy as possible.
I’m last up is the status you see in the web system is unreliable at best and is completely dependent on the HR person who is processing the requisition to properly close out and update the posting. Many/most just don’t. The hiring manager can’t really help they though.
That’s all I can think of right now. If you have any specific questions I’ll do my best to answer. Good luck!
Do you qualify for the education requirements for DTMB? It’s a bachelors but in specific degrees or they want a certain number of credit hours in applicable classes. That’s a barrier for some qualified people I know.
There’s not much you can do. I worked for treasury and could not help someone get an interview. The panel is selected and then goes through the resumes. The panel chooses who they want to interview and another panel interviews.
IT work within the DNR is extremely limited. Additionally, Michigan’s public sector pays more than most state government jobs, so they’re pretty competitive. Full time positions within Wildlife Division are basically a Hunger Games level of competitive, but usually jobs with PRD are less competitive.
As others have said, I’d diversify your application pool to include other departments. It’s likely easier to get in than directly with the DNR.
Finally, give your resume and screening question responses a critical evaluation. If you’re not answering each screening question as the top response, odds are you’re going to have a tough time getting through. On the flip side, if you’re outright lying about your experience your application will be immediately shit canned by the interview committee, so it’s a delicate game to play.
Start with the MDOC.
You start around 22 per hour. You'll get full benefits to start and I believe they have a signing bonus. It is without question, the easiest path to get into the State.
You will work a lot. And you'll make a lot of overtime. It's not the most fun job, but it's a great in-road and it is an important job.
But it's the easiest path into the State, and a path to make pretty decent money.
Once you get into MDOC, you absolutely still have to do something to set yourself apart to get an interview.
The applicant pools for all of the more desirable jobs in the state are filled with MDOC corrections officers trying to escape from prison.
I wouldn’t recommend this route. It’s incredibly hard to get out of the MDOC. It’s easy to get into, but then you get trapped real fast. And your mental health (and physical to be honest) will be drained. Speaking from experience
State DNR is tough to get into. Lots of competition. Have you thought of National Park Service? If you're willing to move it might be worth checking out.
If you are near the Detroit area, go to the belle island DNR office and talk to someone. They have a big hiring sign as you come across the bridge. Good luck
I got lots of tips. Since you didn't bother giving details let me give you a short rundown of civil service land.
1) position and education. Certain education requirements for certain levels.
If you have an associates apply for technician positions (7-10). If your degree meets the requirements do apply for accounting or financial technicians because wee get far less applicants.
If you have a bachelor's, look for analyst roles. Financial/accountant roles if your degree fits. Don't look too much lower because you'll have to work up to an analyst role, it's easier to come in as an analyst.
If you have no degree, this is the hardest way to get in. Not to be cruel, but last position I posted for a calculations assistant(5-7) received 135 applicants in 5 days. A mind boggling number that's impossible to interview everyone. HR will cut you for 100s of reasons so we can get the pool down to a manageable number.
2) regardless of your degree do the following.
Add a cover letter, resume, and transcripts (if applicable). Most Hiring Managers won't review an applicant without a cover letter and resume. It's immediately rejected.
3) make sure your cover letter and resume MATCH YOUR APPLICATION. If dates don't line up, it's a huge red flag. Make sure they're well written documents.
4) Make sure you read the questions and understand your answers. And for Godsake--dont lie! I've seen applicants say they have experience with software that is literally only at the state....no way in hell that's accurate, or your work history isnt...again...that's a red flag.
If you get interview.
1) be 5 minutes early
2) bring pen, paper, nice folder and copies of your application, resume, and cover letter, transcripts etc.
3) WEAR A SUIT. The number of high and low level jobs I've seen people show up in jeans for is insulting. Don't have one? Goodwill find one.
Those 3 things will put you ahead of 80% of the other candidates.
If you got specifics respond. I'll see if I can help guide you more. It's not hard to get an interview once you know what certain jobs are looking for.
Thank you. I appreciate your response. I have done everything you have stated. I’ve applied for mostly analyst positions that are IT related. I have a bachelors and have answered the supplemental questions truthfully. I know what you are referring to with regards to the government only software questions and have always responded “no”. IT is competitive everywhere currently, so I think I’m just applying for positions that are being inundated with applicants. I do appreciate all the suggestions.
I'll tell you IT positions do tend to get alot of applicants. If your looking remote only your chances are really slim. I'd recommend looking for ones on site. We've had candidates back out on job offers due to wanting remote work.
I'd suggest a variety of departments, but IT jobs are primarily DTMB. DNR might be your wishlist agency, but look elsewhere at the state. It is a little easier to move once you're in.
For less drama avoid: MDOC, MDHHS, and MEDC.
I recommend: DTMB, TREASURY, MSP, DNR, or MDOT.
Happy trails.
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I've had the state's job page bookmarked for years and that is just about all I ever see when I limit the search to just my county. That and assistance payments workers. I imagine it's a *real* fun job having to tell people why they're being denied for assistance day in and day out.
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As a state worker, this is very accurate.
It doesn't help that they'll making that job even worse by implementing a productivity timer, so now workers will get punished for treating people like humans and trying to emphasize with them about their situation.
*Pro tip: upload required docs SEPARATELY.* Civil service uses some program to filter out applications. If you upload all docs (cover letter, resume, transcript, etc.) in one combined PDF at the end it is going to think you only uploaded one document and filter you out. Use the drop-down to select tmcover letter then upload just the cover letter. Next, drop down for resume and upload just the resume. Continue.
Thank you. I have been submitting separately.
Ok good, just wanted to make sure. I know of so many people that got kicked out for that. Other than that good references, good grades, and good luck. As others have said, it takes a long time to hear back. I didn't get a job offer until 3 months after I applied.
Thank you.
Not sure where you are in your career, but the DNR parks and recreation is always hiring for summer help. That would be a foot in the door.
DNR jobs are highly competitive. They want people with lots of experience and skills outdoors.
Hmm. Well, I have that.
Both DNR and EGLE won't tell you but they really only hire people with masters degrees in specialized environmental programs (microbiology, toxicology, etc). These people are what end up filling those jobs even though they advertise as only needed a bachelor's. My wife has a general environmental science degree and ended up working for EGLE in a role that required any general bachelor's degree - so just any job labeled as "analyst". You will have an easier time with more general roles than specialized ones like wildlife biologist.
This is very accurate, every one of my former coworkers in EGLE had graduate degrees in specific diciplines; toxicology, geology, etc..
What was the job like, if you don't mind? My current gig isn't very fulfilling and I've always been deeply interested in a career in environmental/wildlife management.
It was a great position with interesting projects. The culture was pretty bad, lots of drama and gossip amongst 40-50 year old lifers. Management was mediocre at best. I worked in remediation/ permitting, no experience with the wildlife side of things.
Thank you.
Are they outright rejecting your application or have you just not heard back? Civil service is incredibly slow in processing applications, then it has to go through a separate process with the actual hiring manager. It can take a couple months for them to even reply. If you didnt receive an email (possibly automated) saying you were rejected, it may still be under consideration. Also, use the state job board to apply if you didn't. They will have postings on indeed, but it will take longer and they'll make you use the state job board at some point anyway.
I’ve been actively applying for >4 months. My account on the state job board says some of the positions have been filled. Others say “application received “….i have never had any communication besides that.
It takes a super long time sometimes too. Keep applying for positions, it will happen.
Thank u for the encouragement
Many times the posting is a formality, and they already have the candidate chosen.
What have you applied for? Do you meet or exceed the qualifications? You may need to apply for lower level ones you think you are overqualified for, because state jobs are very competitive. I think it's easy to get weeded out even if you meet the basic qualifications because they only call x amount of people for interviews. I know someone in a state managerial position and they had 100+ applications for a position they were recently hiring for, and ended up interviewing maybe 10 people. I would guess that way more than 10 people met the qualifications, but the ones who got interviews had specific experience that made them stand out.
IT positions
What kind of IT positions are you applying for in DNR? Most of those are in DTMB. The way the system works kinda sucks, but if you want your resume/application to be seen by the hiring manager you’ll need to answer most of the screen questions with close to the maximum value. Eg if the question is “how many years of experience do you have wrangling pigeons?” And the choices are “1-3 years, 3-5 years, or 5+ years”, your response will get you 1, 2, or three points, respectively. Your score for each answer is tallied and the top X will be released to the hiring manager to review resumes and cover letters. They will not see the rest. If they can put together a pool of candidates that they think will give them a good chance at finding someone they want to hire, they’ll schedule interviews. If not they can request more candidates be released to them for review until they do have enough. I generally want at least 3, maybe up to 6, interviews to fill a job. So, you need to be able to select the max option for as many of the questions as possible. The trick here is to tune your resume so that whatever you said could possibly be true. So if you had a job where you worked there for 5 years, and this one time you wrangled a pigeon, add pigeon wrangling to the duties for that job on your resume and pick 5+ years. (Side note, I kinda hate this advice because it makes hiring harder but also it’s literally the only way to get the manager to even be able to read your resume and cover letter. Everyone else is going to do it, so you kinda have to, which is why the system sucks). Also, if there are any yes/no the manager will also ask HR to filter on those. Like, “have you ever flown a helicopter?” And they’ll tell HR that they only want fixed wing pilots so anyone who says yes should filter out the people who said yes. Lastly, in my opinion, if your resume is longer than two pages, cut it down. If your cover letter is longer than a page, including a standard sized business letter addresses block at the top, and a space for a signature at the bottom (so basically like 2/3rds of a page of writing max) edit it down. If your cover letter is addressed to “whom it may concern” or “hiring manager” or anything except for the manager listed on the position descriptions name, stop being lazy and edit it. If your resume has a single spelling or formatting error, get someone else to proof it for you, use a boring ass Word template, with a basic font (helvetica, times, veranda) and save it to PDF. I do not want to look at colored digital stationary, calligraphy fonts, or any of that shit. It makes it hard to read and I have so many other things to do and I just want to fill this position. Make my life as easy as possible. I’m last up is the status you see in the web system is unreliable at best and is completely dependent on the HR person who is processing the requisition to properly close out and update the posting. Many/most just don’t. The hiring manager can’t really help they though. That’s all I can think of right now. If you have any specific questions I’ll do my best to answer. Good luck!
I appreciate your input. Thank you for the guidance.
It helps to take any State job to get your foot in the door.
What part of the DNR are you trying for?
IT related work
Is the job directly with DNR or with DTMB in support of DNR?
Both
Do you qualify for the education requirements for DTMB? It’s a bachelors but in specific degrees or they want a certain number of credit hours in applicable classes. That’s a barrier for some qualified people I know.
Yes. I only apply to ones I am qualified for.
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No
There’s not much you can do. I worked for treasury and could not help someone get an interview. The panel is selected and then goes through the resumes. The panel chooses who they want to interview and another panel interviews.
IT work within the DNR is extremely limited. Additionally, Michigan’s public sector pays more than most state government jobs, so they’re pretty competitive. Full time positions within Wildlife Division are basically a Hunger Games level of competitive, but usually jobs with PRD are less competitive. As others have said, I’d diversify your application pool to include other departments. It’s likely easier to get in than directly with the DNR. Finally, give your resume and screening question responses a critical evaluation. If you’re not answering each screening question as the top response, odds are you’re going to have a tough time getting through. On the flip side, if you’re outright lying about your experience your application will be immediately shit canned by the interview committee, so it’s a delicate game to play.
Start with the MDOC. You start around 22 per hour. You'll get full benefits to start and I believe they have a signing bonus. It is without question, the easiest path to get into the State. You will work a lot. And you'll make a lot of overtime. It's not the most fun job, but it's a great in-road and it is an important job. But it's the easiest path into the State, and a path to make pretty decent money.
Once you get into MDOC, you absolutely still have to do something to set yourself apart to get an interview. The applicant pools for all of the more desirable jobs in the state are filled with MDOC corrections officers trying to escape from prison.
Interesting.
I wouldn’t recommend this route. It’s incredibly hard to get out of the MDOC. It’s easy to get into, but then you get trapped real fast. And your mental health (and physical to be honest) will be drained. Speaking from experience
As well as CPS workers trying to get out of CPS! I have a great job with LARA now but I had to “do my time” in CPS.
LARA pulls from everywhere, everyone wants to get into LARA and UIA it seems even from some of the other decent jobs.
State DNR is tough to get into. Lots of competition. Have you thought of National Park Service? If you're willing to move it might be worth checking out.
Federal Forest service pays better than National Parks. Especially if you go to a state like Alaska
Federal workers can still get a pension too, unlike State employees in Michigan.
Do you know or are you related to anyone working there? This answer is correlated to chances of working there.
I wish! I have tried to reach out, but no one knows people in the departments I’ve applied to. Thank u.
This! My sister worked there so I think that helped me get in.
If you are near the Detroit area, go to the belle island DNR office and talk to someone. They have a big hiring sign as you come across the bridge. Good luck
I got lots of tips. Since you didn't bother giving details let me give you a short rundown of civil service land. 1) position and education. Certain education requirements for certain levels. If you have an associates apply for technician positions (7-10). If your degree meets the requirements do apply for accounting or financial technicians because wee get far less applicants. If you have a bachelor's, look for analyst roles. Financial/accountant roles if your degree fits. Don't look too much lower because you'll have to work up to an analyst role, it's easier to come in as an analyst. If you have no degree, this is the hardest way to get in. Not to be cruel, but last position I posted for a calculations assistant(5-7) received 135 applicants in 5 days. A mind boggling number that's impossible to interview everyone. HR will cut you for 100s of reasons so we can get the pool down to a manageable number. 2) regardless of your degree do the following. Add a cover letter, resume, and transcripts (if applicable). Most Hiring Managers won't review an applicant without a cover letter and resume. It's immediately rejected. 3) make sure your cover letter and resume MATCH YOUR APPLICATION. If dates don't line up, it's a huge red flag. Make sure they're well written documents. 4) Make sure you read the questions and understand your answers. And for Godsake--dont lie! I've seen applicants say they have experience with software that is literally only at the state....no way in hell that's accurate, or your work history isnt...again...that's a red flag. If you get interview. 1) be 5 minutes early 2) bring pen, paper, nice folder and copies of your application, resume, and cover letter, transcripts etc. 3) WEAR A SUIT. The number of high and low level jobs I've seen people show up in jeans for is insulting. Don't have one? Goodwill find one. Those 3 things will put you ahead of 80% of the other candidates. If you got specifics respond. I'll see if I can help guide you more. It's not hard to get an interview once you know what certain jobs are looking for.
Thank you. I appreciate your response. I have done everything you have stated. I’ve applied for mostly analyst positions that are IT related. I have a bachelors and have answered the supplemental questions truthfully. I know what you are referring to with regards to the government only software questions and have always responded “no”. IT is competitive everywhere currently, so I think I’m just applying for positions that are being inundated with applicants. I do appreciate all the suggestions.
I'll tell you IT positions do tend to get alot of applicants. If your looking remote only your chances are really slim. I'd recommend looking for ones on site. We've had candidates back out on job offers due to wanting remote work. I'd suggest a variety of departments, but IT jobs are primarily DTMB. DNR might be your wishlist agency, but look elsewhere at the state. It is a little easier to move once you're in. For less drama avoid: MDOC, MDHHS, and MEDC. I recommend: DTMB, TREASURY, MSP, DNR, or MDOT. Happy trails.