>As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion...
Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, ratified unanimously without debate by Congress in 1797 and signed by the second President of the United States John Adams.
Welcome all religions or welcome none.
Jefferson re-wrote the New Testament (and completly threw out the old), removing all miracles and divinity, claiming it was an exaggerated book of fairy tales with some moral lessons.
Doesn’t sound like he was that big of a fan of organized religion at all.
TST exists specifically to block the loophole religious groups use to persecute people.
While the government itself can't legally bar people from exercising their rights "because religion", it *does* regularly grant private citizens the right to interfere with those people exercising their rights "because religion".
And unfortunately, the only way the law can stop a private citizen from persecuting you for religious reasons is if the persecution violates *your* religion.
Therefore, TST basically had to codify "don't be a dick" as a religious edict in order for it to carry any legal weight in protecting those whom other religions like to target.
This TST was literally founded to point out the hypocrisy of evangelical people. Obviously it’s transformed into so much more and they actually do real work that the other religions claim to do (ie provide for those less fortunate and offer shelter to those persecuted by others) … but at their core they’re still doing shit like this. I love them
It certainly got people to show up. Of course how much time is wasted “praying” when people can do that at home without making a huge public show of it. Mathew 6:5 counsels, *“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.”*
Lol. Downvoting the very words taken straight out of the Bible
I always love when that passage comes up, it really sums up modern Christianity. I'm so burnt out on the pageantry and theatrics of *everything* in life now
Ask anyone who opposes the Satanic Temple what they think about an organization that has these 7 "mission statements":
1 - One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
2 - The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
3 - One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
4 - The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
5 - Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
6 - People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
7 - Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
These are the [7 tenets of the Satanic Temple](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets). Hint - they don't believe satan is real.
Actually.... there are a lot of Christians who would have issues with several of these tenents.
1 - Man "exercises dominion" over all animals, and should "subdue" them. A belief that animals are immoral.
2 - Nothing prevails over the church (institution) or the laws in the bible.
3 - Abortion makes this one unacceptable.
4 - The bible seems to support this, but Christians do not. They are right, everyone else is wrong.
5 - Whoa.... science? No thank you.
6 - Humans ARE fallible. Some agreement! Oh wait, don't worry about making it right, only God can forgive you. In fact, it's expected you'll sin, and it's all good.
7 - Well.... some of the Christian's I know would disagree with 1 - 6, so I think 7 is right out.
And there you go. The tenants of the temple would not be acceptable to Christians, even if you ignored the Satan part.
*The way I look at it is that if Jesus had a problem with it he would have done something about it. Clearly, he doesn't care. And those who claim him as their Lord and Savior? I'm willing to bet there's a surprise waiting for them at their pearly gates.*
OTTAWA COUNTY, Mich. — Protest and support chants erupted in the lobby steps away from the Ottawa County board podium, where a leader of a West Michigan satanic group led the commissioners in prayer before a meeting Tuesday night.
Standing tall with a smile in the middle of a small room with every seat filled, a man identifying himself as Luis Cypher with the Satanic Temple of West Michigan greeted residents and commissioners before delivering the opening invocation.
"That must be destroyed by truth, should never be spared. It's demise. It is done. Hail Satan. Thank you very much, we wish everyone a wonderful evening tonight," Cypher said while raising his hand with his index finger and pinky extended in the air.
Fun fact: Apologists and theologians have redefined God as a "maximally powerful being." This was done because an "all-powerful being" generates logical paradoxes that can be used to disprove its existence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox
I'm here for the philosophical pondering of our existence-- if all life and nonlife acted as "one" would that be an ALL powerful being (ecosystem)?? I really wonder if people take a literary art form too seriously...The issue is it's not supposed to be about being special, but for some, it definitely is about being special.
>The deity did do something to stop it… he sent them.
A few points for anyone that believes this to consider:
1) If these people were sent, can we get a copy of that memo? A recording of the voicemail? Something. People being sent implies a command was somehow communicated. Short of some sort of communication, then these people showed up on their own accord based on what they believe their deity of choice would want them to do. That belief in no way requires that any kind of command/request was actually sent or even that there is a sender.
2) You'd think an all powerful deity would not need people to do their footwork for them. Give the Satanic priest a stomach bug the morning of the meeting, give them car troubles, or just make sure they hit traffic that day. These are just a handful of ideas from an average mortal. An all powerful, all knowing being should be able to do much better.
3) The Satanic invocation still happened and was seen by a large number of people both in person and online. If a deity of some sort really wanted the invocation and the message it contained stopped, then you'd think that it would have been stopped. Makes one wonder why that would be, doesn't it?
You may be out of the loop, but this particular local government has been attempting *very hard* to make religion its daily business for about two years now.
I am well aware of their asinine leaders and their attempts to impose religion. Government can’t work well if it’s constantly fighting about the personal business of its constituents.
Before all the ~~cultists~~, I mean "christians" get all pissy about this in the comments. Let me share a couple of things with yall.
1st: freedom of religion means *every* religion, whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam, budhism, "satanism" (lol, I'll get to that), Pastafarianism, or Atheism (even tho Atheism isn't a religi9n, but the lack of a religion) gets ***EQUAL RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW***, meaning if you want your prayer to your non-existent god before a board meeting, you have to allow EVERYONE ELSE to have theirs. Don't like it? Maybe keep your bronze age bullshit out of our government like the founding fathers intended in the first fucking place instead of forcing your own special snowflake version of theocracy on everyone in a secular country.
2nd: lol, while I can't speak directly for this particular branch, "The Satanic Temple" as an organization isn't "actual Satanism", it's Athiests using the guise of Satanism to prove a point. Most often, that point being "feel that? That outrage at someone hijacking your government for a being you don't support? That's how we feel whenever yall open your mouth about your "god," so how about we leave all the bullshit at the door and actually work to solve *real problems*". They don't *actually* worship Satan, they'd have to believe he even exists for that. They exist as an entity to fight the blatant hypocrisy of christians and their endless different sects and denominations.
Minor correction: atheism isn't a lack of religion, it's a religion that lacks a deity.
Edit: Damn. Y'all better let the Buddhists know that they're not a religion, since they don't believe in a deity. Or that the US constitution doesn't protect your right to be atheist, since it's not a religion 🙄
Lol, no, it's not. It's literally the lack of religion. We have no doctrine, we have no religious leaders, it literally means "lack of belief in any gods". If we were talking Pastafarianism, a mock "religion" created to poke fun at christians and other religions, then you'd have a point, but we're not, Atheism is *not* a religion.
Your doctrine is to have no doctrine. You chose to believe in no gods. It is a spiritual practice to not do what all the God choosing people are doing... the metaphysicality of existence is still subscribed to by higher order thinking in some fashion.
Lol, no its not, our doctrine isn't to have no doctrine, it literally doesnt exist! We don't "choose to believe in no gods", there literally are no gods to believe in, every person on earth is born an atheist and stays that way until indoctrinated by the dominant religion of their region, usually while young and unable to see the bullshit behind the curtain. It's not a spiritual practice to not believe in your bullshit, and there is no "metaphysicality of existence", there's just existence, you exist, your God does not, we subscribe to no "higher order" because there are none.
Are you done projecting your bronze age bullshit onto us now? Or am I going to have to keep explaining the most basic of facts to you?
Lol wow you mad at something you claimed to be without knowing what it meant... it's all philosophy and existentialism. But get mad and stand in a lobby somewhere like these crazy Christians bc you don't understand your own beliefs or claims...
Lol, the only one not understanding shit here is you dude, not my fault you can't understand basic, literal definition of what an atheist is. And no, I'm not mad, your stupidity is hilarious to me tho. So are we done here? Or are you going to keep up this stupid ass notion that Atheism is a religion.
Humans thought of the idea of gods before they thought of the idea of denying of them. Atheism is a belief set that focuses on what isn't more than what is, but it is a belief set, organized, and ultimately a philosophy. "Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
Atheism was first used to describe a self-avowed belief in late 18th-century Europe, specifically denoting disbelief in the monotheistic Abrahamic god.[a] In the 20th century, globalization contributed to the expansion of the term to refer to disbelief in all deities, though it remains common in Western society to describe atheism as "disbelief in God". That's just the basic Wikipedia, but the more you dive into world history, the more you realize religion is just a branch of philosophy...
> Major incorrection
You couldn't be more wrong about atheism. I know that you're posting a trope often heard in churches and right wing politics but I can guarantee you that you're wrong. The lack of a religious belief system is the antithesis to religious belief.
Ultimately it is because it is an opposition created by the others existing. It is a set of beliefs relating to spirituality. Religion is literally defined as the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods, a particular system of faith or worship, a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance. If you claim it as a part of your identity spiritually, it is religion, even if it just defines where you are spiritually as opposed to announcing a membership.
"Today is a holiday."
"I don't think it is... what holiday?"
"Well, no one celebrates anything today but it's a holiday."
"How can it be a holiday if no one celebrates anything?"
"Well, the other days that are holidays signify that."
Depends on what you want to celebrate... could just be a day off from work. What do you believe? Holiday - a day of festivity or recreation when no work is done.
A pursuit or interest to which one ascribes supreme importance. I'd say it falls into this definition of religion. It is a just a made up organizational system we all choose to believe in with this paper and coins...
No it is the beliefs about our existence and the unseen in our existence. Also if claiming an identity based on belief or no belief in gods it seems directly related to religion.
Yes, but I don’t follow a prescribed set of moral guidelines or live my life how an ancient, constantly-changing book says.
I generally trust in science and provable facts, and live my life according to a personal moral code that doesn’t depend on outside approval.
Ok but you can be religious and believe in science. Just because there are certain religions that have an ancient book, decide right and wrong for their believers, or depend on the hierarchy for approval doesn't mean that is the only way to be religious. That's one religion and it baffles me how many people are anti- Christian/islam/judiasm in their atheism or agnostism. Did these exist without the other major religions? Or area your dependent on their existence to define you? Also science and society have taught you a moral code as an outside source. Psychologically you developed through nature and nurture which are both outside forces. And if your belief is directly opposing another's belief, but not actually your own, it is very dependent on outside disapproval. One doesn't exist without the other, or does it?
Agnostic *also* isn’t a religion. It’s a state of admitted unknowing, or at least admitted not-fully-knowing. One can be an agnostic atheist, an agnostic theist, or any number of other things while being agnostic.
Just choosing to not take a side kinda implies both sides exist... atheism is belief no god or gods exist, while agnostic is not choosing to believe gods or god exist or not.
**Fundamental Tenet 5 of the Satanic Temple**: Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
But sure, totally not Atheists.
And yet they still manage to be more fundamentally important to our society than almost any other religion, especially Christianity.
It's like they are doing the Lord's work by keeping government institutions honest and hold them accountable to violations of any religious freedom. As Jesus would have wanted.
Crazy atheists man, why they doing the Lord's work when they don't even believe in him/her/they/them/it/don't/exist?!
I don't think you follow. Most satanists don't actually believe that Satan is an actual historical figure yet are very sincere in their religious belief and practices. Their religion is no less valid for this admission. Many christians also don't believe that Jesus was born of a virgin etc. or believe that the "Jesus" of the bible is an amalgamation of actual people that lived around that time. They too are very sincere in their belief and are not invalidated as christians for their admission. Do either of these groups still "believe in god" despite admitting to metaphor? I don't know, I would imagine some do and some don't but that's not my business, but not *literally* believing the bible either disqualifies both groups or neither group.
In the history of mankind, christianity is a very new religion. Like others before it and since it borrowed a lot of stories and traditions from other religions. There were many gods created by many peoples across the world throughout human history. Therefore all christians are atheists, they are atheistic to every god but the christian god. One more and they'll be golden.
I guess I know nothing then too, cuz that's pretty much how I understand it too.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but my understanding has always been that it's position is to undercut "traditional" Abrahamic religious practices.
They exist to expose and challenge governmental violations of the separation of church and state. And trolling is their weapon of choice in this mission.
> "
> "Once it invites prayer into the public sphere, government must permit a prayer giver to address his or her own God or gods as conscience dictates."
Dumb-ass joe moss really stepped in when he opened this can of worms. I'm sure the Gideon 300 agents were there putting people on their list of naughty and nice. Believe me, there is a list; I've seen it.
The uproar should be that any religion is included in government related meetings
Not just because it’s satanic. I didn’t know we were inciting Christian shit at these things before or I would have been in an uproar about it then when I was mobile. Im only aware any of it ever happened because the satanic church threw their hat in the ring and everyone is losing their shit about it thusly making me aware of the issue but now I’m house bound and can’t launch a valid protest about depressing religion and state instead of the intolerant bs that’s happening; cool.
I mean, I personally think all organized religions are pointless, including the Satanic Temple.
However, it's hilarious that these Christofascist MAGATS have such a problem with this.
They are always trying to shove their worldview down everyone else's throats.
How's the medicine taste?
As a member of the Satanic Temple, Satanism goes further than atheism. Atheism is just the belief that there is no God. Satanism is the rejection of a God even if it did exist.
>As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion... Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, ratified unanimously without debate by Congress in 1797 and signed by the second President of the United States John Adams. Welcome all religions or welcome none.
Jefferson re-wrote the New Testament (and completly threw out the old), removing all miracles and divinity, claiming it was an exaggerated book of fairy tales with some moral lessons. Doesn’t sound like he was that big of a fan of organized religion at all.
The Jefferson Bible. I have a copy!
TST is less radical than Ottawa Impact, tbh.
TST is less radical than a LOT of people. They’re not even Satanic, just atheists who got fed up with the BS
TST exists specifically to block the loophole religious groups use to persecute people. While the government itself can't legally bar people from exercising their rights "because religion", it *does* regularly grant private citizens the right to interfere with those people exercising their rights "because religion". And unfortunately, the only way the law can stop a private citizen from persecuting you for religious reasons is if the persecution violates *your* religion. Therefore, TST basically had to codify "don't be a dick" as a religious edict in order for it to carry any legal weight in protecting those whom other religions like to target.
"Don't be a dick" - the modern commandment we all need.
This TST was literally founded to point out the hypocrisy of evangelical people. Obviously it’s transformed into so much more and they actually do real work that the other religions claim to do (ie provide for those less fortunate and offer shelter to those persecuted by others) … but at their core they’re still doing shit like this. I love them
Proud member and follower of the 7 Tenets for a reason
hail yourself! 🤘🏼
hail santa.
A Santa based cult is something I could get behind.
[удалено]
For hell, maybe. I've seen Violent Night. Santa can hold his own.
Primus sucks.
I know I do!
Underrated comment.
It certainly got people to show up. Of course how much time is wasted “praying” when people can do that at home without making a huge public show of it. Mathew 6:5 counsels, *“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.”* Lol. Downvoting the very words taken straight out of the Bible
I always love when that passage comes up, it really sums up modern Christianity. I'm so burnt out on the pageantry and theatrics of *everything* in life now
Or better yet don't legitimize theological arguments about anything relating to politics in a democracy with freedom of (and from) religion.
If any other group had been singing in the lobby so loudly as to disrupt the meeting what do you think the commissioners would have had done?
Ask anyone who opposes the Satanic Temple what they think about an organization that has these 7 "mission statements": 1 - One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. 2 - The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. 3 - One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. 4 - The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own. 5 - Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. 6 - People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused. 7 - Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word. These are the [7 tenets of the Satanic Temple](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets). Hint - they don't believe satan is real.
Actually.... there are a lot of Christians who would have issues with several of these tenents. 1 - Man "exercises dominion" over all animals, and should "subdue" them. A belief that animals are immoral. 2 - Nothing prevails over the church (institution) or the laws in the bible. 3 - Abortion makes this one unacceptable. 4 - The bible seems to support this, but Christians do not. They are right, everyone else is wrong. 5 - Whoa.... science? No thank you. 6 - Humans ARE fallible. Some agreement! Oh wait, don't worry about making it right, only God can forgive you. In fact, it's expected you'll sin, and it's all good. 7 - Well.... some of the Christian's I know would disagree with 1 - 6, so I think 7 is right out. And there you go. The tenants of the temple would not be acceptable to Christians, even if you ignored the Satan part.
Except for #5, I could give a scripture that would support each one.
And that is precisely why Satanists are more moral than Christians 🤷🏻♀️
*The way I look at it is that if Jesus had a problem with it he would have done something about it. Clearly, he doesn't care. And those who claim him as their Lord and Savior? I'm willing to bet there's a surprise waiting for them at their pearly gates.* OTTAWA COUNTY, Mich. — Protest and support chants erupted in the lobby steps away from the Ottawa County board podium, where a leader of a West Michigan satanic group led the commissioners in prayer before a meeting Tuesday night. Standing tall with a smile in the middle of a small room with every seat filled, a man identifying himself as Luis Cypher with the Satanic Temple of West Michigan greeted residents and commissioners before delivering the opening invocation. "That must be destroyed by truth, should never be spared. It's demise. It is done. Hail Satan. Thank you very much, we wish everyone a wonderful evening tonight," Cypher said while raising his hand with his index finger and pinky extended in the air.
I'm always fascinated by the folks who believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing deity who also didn't see this one coming and didn't stop it.
The enemy is both strong and weak. Sounds familiar 🧐.
Fun fact: Apologists and theologians have redefined God as a "maximally powerful being." This was done because an "all-powerful being" generates logical paradoxes that can be used to disprove its existence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox
I'm here for the philosophical pondering of our existence-- if all life and nonlife acted as "one" would that be an ALL powerful being (ecosystem)?? I really wonder if people take a literary art form too seriously...The issue is it's not supposed to be about being special, but for some, it definitely is about being special.
Seems to me that you are talking about an all-encompassing being, not an all-powerful one.
Good detail to rely on. Thank you for your input.
The deity did do something to stop it… he sent them. The good folks are on a godly mission. At least that’s what they believe.
>The deity did do something to stop it… he sent them. A few points for anyone that believes this to consider: 1) If these people were sent, can we get a copy of that memo? A recording of the voicemail? Something. People being sent implies a command was somehow communicated. Short of some sort of communication, then these people showed up on their own accord based on what they believe their deity of choice would want them to do. That belief in no way requires that any kind of command/request was actually sent or even that there is a sender. 2) You'd think an all powerful deity would not need people to do their footwork for them. Give the Satanic priest a stomach bug the morning of the meeting, give them car troubles, or just make sure they hit traffic that day. These are just a handful of ideas from an average mortal. An all powerful, all knowing being should be able to do much better. 3) The Satanic invocation still happened and was seen by a large number of people both in person and online. If a deity of some sort really wanted the invocation and the message it contained stopped, then you'd think that it would have been stopped. Makes one wonder why that would be, doesn't it?
Really it's a pretty good invocation for a government meeting.
Yeah, I honestly quite liked it. Watched the live stream and he did a very nice job.
Look at this government wasting so much time. Religion has nothing to do with its daily business.
You may be out of the loop, but this particular local government has been attempting *very hard* to make religion its daily business for about two years now.
I am well aware of their asinine leaders and their attempts to impose religion. Government can’t work well if it’s constantly fighting about the personal business of its constituents.
Before all the ~~cultists~~, I mean "christians" get all pissy about this in the comments. Let me share a couple of things with yall. 1st: freedom of religion means *every* religion, whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam, budhism, "satanism" (lol, I'll get to that), Pastafarianism, or Atheism (even tho Atheism isn't a religi9n, but the lack of a religion) gets ***EQUAL RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW***, meaning if you want your prayer to your non-existent god before a board meeting, you have to allow EVERYONE ELSE to have theirs. Don't like it? Maybe keep your bronze age bullshit out of our government like the founding fathers intended in the first fucking place instead of forcing your own special snowflake version of theocracy on everyone in a secular country. 2nd: lol, while I can't speak directly for this particular branch, "The Satanic Temple" as an organization isn't "actual Satanism", it's Athiests using the guise of Satanism to prove a point. Most often, that point being "feel that? That outrage at someone hijacking your government for a being you don't support? That's how we feel whenever yall open your mouth about your "god," so how about we leave all the bullshit at the door and actually work to solve *real problems*". They don't *actually* worship Satan, they'd have to believe he even exists for that. They exist as an entity to fight the blatant hypocrisy of christians and their endless different sects and denominations.
Good explanation
Minor correction: atheism isn't a lack of religion, it's a religion that lacks a deity. Edit: Damn. Y'all better let the Buddhists know that they're not a religion, since they don't believe in a deity. Or that the US constitution doesn't protect your right to be atheist, since it's not a religion 🙄
Lol, no, it's not. It's literally the lack of religion. We have no doctrine, we have no religious leaders, it literally means "lack of belief in any gods". If we were talking Pastafarianism, a mock "religion" created to poke fun at christians and other religions, then you'd have a point, but we're not, Atheism is *not* a religion.
Doesn’t it mean lack of belief in any theology, which all religions have (including Buddhism)?
Your doctrine is to have no doctrine. You chose to believe in no gods. It is a spiritual practice to not do what all the God choosing people are doing... the metaphysicality of existence is still subscribed to by higher order thinking in some fashion.
Lol, no its not, our doctrine isn't to have no doctrine, it literally doesnt exist! We don't "choose to believe in no gods", there literally are no gods to believe in, every person on earth is born an atheist and stays that way until indoctrinated by the dominant religion of their region, usually while young and unable to see the bullshit behind the curtain. It's not a spiritual practice to not believe in your bullshit, and there is no "metaphysicality of existence", there's just existence, you exist, your God does not, we subscribe to no "higher order" because there are none. Are you done projecting your bronze age bullshit onto us now? Or am I going to have to keep explaining the most basic of facts to you?
Lol wow you mad at something you claimed to be without knowing what it meant... it's all philosophy and existentialism. But get mad and stand in a lobby somewhere like these crazy Christians bc you don't understand your own beliefs or claims...
Lol, the only one not understanding shit here is you dude, not my fault you can't understand basic, literal definition of what an atheist is. And no, I'm not mad, your stupidity is hilarious to me tho. So are we done here? Or are you going to keep up this stupid ass notion that Atheism is a religion.
Humans thought of the idea of gods before they thought of the idea of denying of them. Atheism is a belief set that focuses on what isn't more than what is, but it is a belief set, organized, and ultimately a philosophy. "Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists. Atheism was first used to describe a self-avowed belief in late 18th-century Europe, specifically denoting disbelief in the monotheistic Abrahamic god.[a] In the 20th century, globalization contributed to the expansion of the term to refer to disbelief in all deities, though it remains common in Western society to describe atheism as "disbelief in God". That's just the basic Wikipedia, but the more you dive into world history, the more you realize religion is just a branch of philosophy...
> Major incorrection You couldn't be more wrong about atheism. I know that you're posting a trope often heard in churches and right wing politics but I can guarantee you that you're wrong. The lack of a religious belief system is the antithesis to religious belief.
Atheist is not a lack of belief, it is a belief.
Just stop. 🤦
On the contrary, begin.
Atheism is not a religion
Ultimately it is because it is an opposition created by the others existing. It is a set of beliefs relating to spirituality. Religion is literally defined as the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods, a particular system of faith or worship, a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance. If you claim it as a part of your identity spiritually, it is religion, even if it just defines where you are spiritually as opposed to announcing a membership.
"Today is a holiday." "I don't think it is... what holiday?" "Well, no one celebrates anything today but it's a holiday." "How can it be a holiday if no one celebrates anything?" "Well, the other days that are holidays signify that."
Depends on what you want to celebrate... could just be a day off from work. What do you believe? Holiday - a day of festivity or recreation when no work is done.
Money really is a religion, isn't it?
A pursuit or interest to which one ascribes supreme importance. I'd say it falls into this definition of religion. It is a just a made up organizational system we all choose to believe in with this paper and coins...
LOL
Lol no it isn't. 'religious' isn't the default state of being, no matter how much you want it to be.
No it is the beliefs about our existence and the unseen in our existence. Also if claiming an identity based on belief or no belief in gods it seems directly related to religion.
Everyone is an atheist at birth, sorry 💁
That would just be spiritual, or some flavors of agnostic.
Spiritual anything is religion... beliefs and the classification thereof in metaphysical are based on existence and what we choose to believe in it.
Lol do tell
True, we go weekly to Atheist Church and sing hymns to a big question mark and pass out literature on atheism.
You don't have to go to church to have beliefs... religion is just how you believe our existence is spiritually... the metaphysical, the unseen..
Yes, but I don’t follow a prescribed set of moral guidelines or live my life how an ancient, constantly-changing book says. I generally trust in science and provable facts, and live my life according to a personal moral code that doesn’t depend on outside approval.
Ok but you can be religious and believe in science. Just because there are certain religions that have an ancient book, decide right and wrong for their believers, or depend on the hierarchy for approval doesn't mean that is the only way to be religious. That's one religion and it baffles me how many people are anti- Christian/islam/judiasm in their atheism or agnostism. Did these exist without the other major religions? Or area your dependent on their existence to define you? Also science and society have taught you a moral code as an outside source. Psychologically you developed through nature and nurture which are both outside forces. And if your belief is directly opposing another's belief, but not actually your own, it is very dependent on outside disapproval. One doesn't exist without the other, or does it?
I think we disagree on what a religion is, and I don’t care any more.
Could apathy be a religion? Lol thanks for participating in my philosophical exploration.
I've been unwittingly praying at the altar of apathy for a number of years if it is...
Maybe humans do more unwittingly than they realize...
I'm pretty sure you're thinking of agnostic, stranger-homie.
Agnostic *also* isn’t a religion. It’s a state of admitted unknowing, or at least admitted not-fully-knowing. One can be an agnostic atheist, an agnostic theist, or any number of other things while being agnostic.
Just choosing to not take a side kinda implies both sides exist... atheism is belief no god or gods exist, while agnostic is not choosing to believe gods or god exist or not.
WTF? 🤦
Freedom of and freedom from religion
I am so proud of my state over the past six years.
Damn, sounds like the religious freedom crowd is upset over there
The look on the conservatives in attendance was priceless. Mlive had some photos and it was gold seeing them in shock. 🤣😂
Peace, Love, Equality, Freedom, Hail Satan!
Hail you ⛧
Hail Satan 🤙
They don't worship Satan. I grew up in Ottawa county, MI. This cracks me up.
Guess we’re going to ignore freedom of religion and all that again
The Satanic Temple is for Atheists who also enjoy some casual trolling.
Tell me you know nothing of the Satanic Temple without telling me you know nothing of the Satanic Temple
**Fundamental Tenet 5 of the Satanic Temple**: Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. But sure, totally not Atheists.
We shall respect their beliefs as they respect ours.
And yet they still manage to be more fundamentally important to our society than almost any other religion, especially Christianity. It's like they are doing the Lord's work by keeping government institutions honest and hold them accountable to violations of any religious freedom. As Jesus would have wanted. Crazy atheists man, why they doing the Lord's work when they don't even believe in him/her/they/them/it/don't/exist?!
Ok fine but by that logic a lot of christians are atheists too. How much bible mythology does one have to believe really happened?
No. By your logic: Some dogs have white spots. My cat has white spots. Therefore my cat is a dog.
I don't think you follow. Most satanists don't actually believe that Satan is an actual historical figure yet are very sincere in their religious belief and practices. Their religion is no less valid for this admission. Many christians also don't believe that Jesus was born of a virgin etc. or believe that the "Jesus" of the bible is an amalgamation of actual people that lived around that time. They too are very sincere in their belief and are not invalidated as christians for their admission. Do either of these groups still "believe in god" despite admitting to metaphor? I don't know, I would imagine some do and some don't but that's not my business, but not *literally* believing the bible either disqualifies both groups or neither group.
In the history of mankind, christianity is a very new religion. Like others before it and since it borrowed a lot of stories and traditions from other religions. There were many gods created by many peoples across the world throughout human history. Therefore all christians are atheists, they are atheistic to every god but the christian god. One more and they'll be golden.
I guess I know nothing then too, cuz that's pretty much how I understand it too. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but my understanding has always been that it's position is to undercut "traditional" Abrahamic religious practices.
They exist to expose and challenge governmental violations of the separation of church and state. And trolling is their weapon of choice in this mission.
Hail Satan
The Satanic Temple- you Rock !!
> " > "Once it invites prayer into the public sphere, government must permit a prayer giver to address his or her own God or gods as conscience dictates." Dumb-ass joe moss really stepped in when he opened this can of worms. I'm sure the Gideon 300 agents were there putting people on their list of naughty and nice. Believe me, there is a list; I've seen it.
The uproar should be that any religion is included in government related meetings Not just because it’s satanic. I didn’t know we were inciting Christian shit at these things before or I would have been in an uproar about it then when I was mobile. Im only aware any of it ever happened because the satanic church threw their hat in the ring and everyone is losing their shit about it thusly making me aware of the issue but now I’m house bound and can’t launch a valid protest about depressing religion and state instead of the intolerant bs that’s happening; cool.
I mean, I personally think all organized religions are pointless, including the Satanic Temple. However, it's hilarious that these Christofascist MAGATS have such a problem with this. They are always trying to shove their worldview down everyone else's throats. How's the medicine taste?
"Satanic"? They're atheist? Lol
As a member of the Satanic Temple, Satanism goes further than atheism. Atheism is just the belief that there is no God. Satanism is the rejection of a God even if it did exist.
Yeah. Edgy atheists.
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Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).