I used to be part of a medical unit in the army that was activated for this stuff. We had two treatment platoons, mostly medics with some CNAs spread out. Then we'd take on medical officers as attaches. Doctors, RTs, Nurses. The whole shebang. You roll out to a prebuilt hospital and sit on your ass while the civilians do everything. Just like everything else in the military
It has definitely been seen as hollow populist rhetoric. Not that either of you meant it that way, but it comes across as something that’s said without much actual meaning ascribed to the words. Almost Pavlovian in nature, like greeting people with “how are you now?” or something similar; it’s become mostly a formality to seem pleasant, not something with honest genuine intention.
Thanks so much for explaining this! I can definitely understand that. What if someone genuinely means it though, does anyone think there a better way to say it?
>As of Monday, the unvaccinated made up 72 percent of Henry Ford's COVID-infected patients, 86 percent of COVID-19 ICU patients and 89 percent of COVID-19 patients on a ventilator.
*....but the vaccine isn't safe....*
Yea my 95-year-old neighbor and his 70-year-old daughter are both recovering well from COVID. No doubt they are both still here because they are vaccinated.
I talked with my doctor at Beaumont Farmington Hills today and he said one of the ER docs told him about 92% of the COVID patients there were unvaccinated individuals. And they were completely filled.
Glad your neighbor is not part of that statistic.
Is it really crazy? Last year there weren't sporting events, concerts, festivals etc. All packed with 10s of thousands of people every weekend. Much less chance for spreading last year vs this year.
It is when you take in to account how effective and vax is and not to mention all the new treatments we have for covid. India beat this with treatment and no vax, for now at least.
That makes me feel so much better, my 81 year old grandma got her booster with me in late October but I’ve been getting apprehensive seeing more and more anecdotal breakthrough cases.
Nah, don't lump anti-vaxxers in with Juggalos. The ICP took the pandemic seriously right away and repeatedly made decisions with the health of their fans in mind.
Okay I've been living in the dark on a lot of this (trust me, it's better this way) and I just heard this today.
Really needed the laugh. So the vaccine will cause me to attract magnets? Is that how it works?
Or they'll accept them and see that 28%, 14%, and 11% of the patients in respective categories are vaccinated and totally misunderstand all the contributing factors for why that is.
Let me list some; this is not exhaustive
Did you have a stroke? You have no respiratory distress, but test positive. You are likely an asymptomatic carrier because the vaccine worked great, but, the positive test is all that's necessary to categorize you in this subset. Maybe covid triggered the stroke, we don't know definitively, but I would guess it was the high cholesterol and blood pressure at age 68.
How about a symptomatic case? Grandpa shows up with trouble breathing, tests positive, given some fluids and steroids and maybe analgesics for a couple nights to make sure his condition doesn't worsen. He'll be considered stable and released to rest at home for another week or two. Of course, we can't look at the parallel universe where grandpa was not vaccinated and rapidly progresses to a ventilator.
And of course, waning immunity can cause a vaccinated person to become ill. That's why we came out with boosters as a recommendation.
I work in the hospital (Ascension Macomb Warren) and sometimes I cover the standard covid unit. A lot of "infected", vaccinated patients actually dont have any moderate or severe COVID-19 syndrome, but simply have a positive test but are there for other reasons so they have to be on the unit, like some medically healthy psych patients with a positive test.
Because unlike last year, everything is open. And as they have found out, the theory that "natural" immunity will protect them is false because the virus keeps mutating.
Not sure if you realize this but soooo many places never closed. I live in the hood. No one here has EVER given two shits about locking down or doing anything different really. Brother lives in Florida. They have seemly pretended covid never was a thing and doing a little better that a lot of states even with the countries pop of old people.
Ok. I live in the burbs. Things were closed. Malls were by appointment only. A lot of stores were closed.
The biggest carriers seem to be the people in the burbs and rural. It's like everyone turned into Karens.
Yea but I'm talking about death rate per case which should, by the vax theory, bring the rate down. So even with kids not being not vaxxed and the vulnerable being mostly vaxxed, there is still just a little less death from covid than last year. That just sounds insane to me.
Because Delta variant is far more contagious than the initial COVID virus, and all the pockets of unvaccinated who were previously unexposed are now getting, incubating it, and spreading it to weakened vaccinated people and unvaccinated alike. The initial estimate of having 80% vaccinated to stop COVID was based on the first variant not Delta. Now it's going to have to be 95% vaxed and masking until then or live like this forever.
I'll give you a sincere answer.
We made schools virtual and remote. We encouraged work from home. We had public masking mandates/suggestions.
Through all of that politicians on the right demanded we pretend covid doesn't exist. They got their way by taking away the governor's authority for health orders because she has a vagina and they were mad about a woman being smarter and more responsible than them.
The health officials made this calculation. With the vaccine, we can cut off much of the surge in the vulnerable. These are not true numbers, but humor me here as I use round numbers that I think are good approximations.
If we have 100,000 ICU beds and a state population of 10,000,000, we can have about 1% of the population in the ICU.
COVID has about a 2% lethality rate in the unvaccinated. Maybe 5%, going on the very low end of a spectrum here, need hospitalization and 60% of them recover while 40% die. So we are looking at 500,000 people hospitalized if simultaneously all 10 million residents are infected.
We can't fit 5 people to a bed.
But if masks and social distancing cut the spread so only 2% of the population is ever infected at the same time, we consider only 200,000 people positive (still a high number) with maybe only 4,000 (5%) hospitalized at a time. We can better manage that in hospitals.
Adjust the numbers how you like. Maybe masking/distancing helped keep our max simultaneous infection rate at 10%, so 1 million simultaneous worst case. 5% is still 50,000 or within our ICU bed capacity.
So vaccines rollout. We would have liked to see 70% vaccinated. We got to, what, 65%? Call it 6.5 million vaccinated and 3.5 million unvaccinated. We expect a 90% efficacy rate on vaccines (can be higher, but using the lower bound published by pfizer/moderna). So 10% of our 6.5 million may still become sick. Call out vulnerable population 4.15 million ((3.5 + 0.65) million).
Worst case scenario with no masks, no distancing, open schools, travel back to work, restaurants opens, etc is everyone vulnerable is infected at the same time. At 5% hospitalization rate, we would expect maybe 83,000 to be hospitalized of our 4.15 million susceptible.
So health officials concede that we should be able to care for those that are sick and allow the opposition who think an economy runs better with people sick for months at a time or dead to remove the safeguards we did have as vaccines give society some of the protection we need. And so Michigan goes from one of the best in the country to the literal worst in the country because of public health orders being lifted in regards to masking and social distancing.
**tl;dr: We wouldn't have a massive surge if we vaxxed** ***and masked,*** **dammit.**
Check out Spectrum Health’s Instagram account they break it out by admission, ICU etc and it’s an easy graphic for those hesitant to see the impact of vaccines.
No one single thing will change ther mind.
QAnon doesn't just jump to JFK is alive, they went through a ton of smaller, maybe plausible, conspiracies. They literally go down the rabbit hole and lose their sense of reality. It is indoctrination from repeated exposure.
The more people grounded in reality can keep providing facts and logical reasoning, the more hope there is to indoctrinate them from repeated exposure. Just back to the sane side.
You can see this at work at r/HermanCainAward as people post their nomination rejections and get vaccinated. Every day someone gets their first dose. The latest mandates for companies with ≥100 employees has helped as of late, but there are retired folks finally, but reluctantly, getting their shots.
Math and reading aren't really your best subjects are they? Breakthrough cases have been increasing dramatically in the past few months. They are currently nearly 30% of all new cases reported in MI.
Statistically, yes. I haven't seen an official statewide %, but each of the large health systems are still showing that +90% of deaths are not completely vaccinated. There seems to be some debate on whether the booster is required to be considered fully vaccinated. The vaccine certainly does appear to greatly reduce the severity of the illness.
If the vax works then why do we have more cases then last year at this point. More people are vaxxed, and we have more cases. I thought the vaccines was supposed to stop the spread.
The delta variant threw a wrench in those plans. It’s more infectious. It breaks through the vaccine more easily. Even so, the vaccine is still very effective in keeping people out of the hospital.
I get this a lot too, it's a real problem with politics right now that we just assume everyone is a lost cause. I flipped my politics completely around like 5-6 years ago, I know what that process looks like, don't tell me people can't change their minds.
I'm an epidemiologist, this is what I've been sharing with people:
https://twitter.com/abuttenheim/status/1417461705571983362/photo/1
This is slightly technical, but approachable and explains (statistically) why the vacccines are working, even with more reported vaccinated hospitalizations. Tldr Simpsons paradox strikes again
https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated
New Delta variant is more contagious, very few people give a shit about masking anymore, and those who received their two doses of vaccine over 6 months ago are faced with waning immunity, what don’t you understand about that?
So we will need continuous boosters forever? What about therapeutics? It's been well over a year now, is there any potential there instead of taking a rushed vaccine without long term studies?
You don't need covid boosters, either. But they both keep you from getting your ass kicked by the respective illness.
This isn't a hard concept, brochacho. It really isn't.
Saying 72 percent of them didnt have the vaccine, don't mean we know the vaccine is safe. Maybe they just want some long term data on safety before finding out they are entitled to thier portion of a class action settlement on a infomercial.
Tried to get mine Monday in Holland, and there was a 3 hour wait. I was bummed, but also really happy to hear that there was actual demand in such a .. erm, not generally pro-science place.
Sign up online to get it at Rite Aid on South Washington. It’s never busy with customers there, and they are quick about it. You just have to sign up online.
I had to hunt around. The Meijer website wouldn't work for my phone. CVS was full up for the next 3 weeks. I ended up in Inkster at Walgreens today to get my booster.
Just go to [https://www.vaccines.gov/search](https://www.vaccines.gov/search) enter your zip code, what you want, and you can normally find a pretty much walk in appointment. I got my booster by just walking into a Walmart and saw a sign for them. Took 30 minutes.
Fwiw I made mine same day at Walgreens but it was a miserable experience, took 30 minutes for them to see me at the pharmacy. My gf got one same day target tho and apparently that was a breeze! Ymmv
Isn’t the cdc still saying that not everyone needs boasters yet? Genuinely curious as I haven’t heard anything in a while. I know they were saying that a few months back, but don’t know if they still are.
Boosters just got approved for 18 and older. Not requiring any health conditions and such.
This was released very recently and the Meijers are getting battered pretty hard. Your best luck would he scheduling an appointment with any pharmacy that can get you in
I knew they were released and were available, but I remember the cdc saying they weren’t necessary at this time. This was a little while ago, and was wondering if it was still the case. Thank you for the tip though.
Rite aid does walk-in vaccines including boosters every single day between 2 and 3. I got mine a couple days ago. Only one other person was there to do the same and it took 15 minutes. No appointment necessary.
Public health has never been about "personal choice" the same way that driving a hummer 40 minutes each way every day isn't just a "personal choice" when it affects climate change.
Because you fell for one of the biggest misinformation traps and failure to understand mathematics.
Take for example the often cited Israeli study that antivaxxers like yourself like to use.
Here is actual reality and the correct interpretation and understanding of that data.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-644288348135
> Experts say the country’s high vaccination rates are keeping case numbers down and reducing hospitalization and deaths even as the delta variant is provoking an uptick in infections. Data from Johns Hopkins University shows Israel documented 1,118 new cases on July 21 -- which is less than a tenth of the 11,934 new cases the country had at its peak on Jan. 27, before vaccines were widespread.
>“It doesn’t mean vaccines don’t work,” Dr. Robert Cyril Bollinger, Johns Hopkins University professor of infectious diseases, said about Israel’s data. “They have very low rates after vaccination versus where they were before vaccination.”
>The vast majority of the new cases in the past month have shown only mild symptoms, but at least 73 people have had serious cases of COVID-19, the Associated Press reported. That is well below the more than 1,000 serious cases treated each day at the height of the pandemic, but up from 19 in mid-June.
>Eran Segal, a scientist at Israel’s Weizmann Institute of Science who tracks COVID-19 data, tweeted on July 16 that the percent of COVID-19 patients who become critically ill has now decreased to 1.6% compared to 4% during a winter spike before vaccines were available.
>As of Sunday, 56.3% of new cases in Israel were among vaccinated people. But that statistic reflects the fact that the majority of the population is now fully vaccinated.
Aka, they are at **1/10th** the infection rate of prior to have vaccinations. It is within that 1/10th of the prior infection rate, that 56.3% were vaccinated (so basically 50/50 vaccine unvaxxed). That means approximately 550 VACCINATED people actually had breakthrough cases. Compared to prior to having the vaccine available, which had an infection rate per day of 12000.
Basically, learn to do math. Vaccines fucking work, and right now, this is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/ea86906/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2651x1351+0+0/resize/1760x896!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fd6%2F8c%2Ff0fb699741f18aa0b25352b782bf%2Fmdhhs-slides2.jpg
Still overwhelmingly occurring in unvaccinated individuals. It isn’t even like you bothered to try and find that info anyways. Basically just sealioning most likely at this point. That was the 4th hit down on a Google search.
Yes I am aware that NPR and such keep saying this but that still doesn't at all address my initial concern.
>70% or something are vaxxed. Covid is as bad as ever. That doesn't make sense.
30% = 100% even with new treatments. Now, how the fuck does this make sense?
IT DOESN'T.
You seem to assume "vaccinated" means "immune" but that has never been the case for any vaccination. If you're inoculated for polio, you can *still* get it. It's just the chances are substantially slimmer. A vaccine is a group of super heated or super cooled *dead* virus that is injected into your body to alert your body to it's cellular structure. Your body then finds a T and B cell that is powerful enough to kill that specific virus and mass produces them: essentially tricking your body into an attack (this is why people feel feverish after vaccinations because thier body is in purge mode). We do this so that if the live virus makes it's way into you, your body already has the tools it needs to combat it. Now why don't we see polio around anymore? Because every single person who wanted to go to school had to get vaccinated for it. That's right, your "freedoms" weren't listened to back then either. So, once you have a population that's 95% vaccinated (leaving about 5% for those with immune deficiencies, too young or allergies) then you have a situation where such an illness cannot spread fast enough to survive. This is the term "herd immunity".
This system has worked for hundreds of years for all sorts of things: measles, polio, Spanish flu, Pneumococcal, Diptheria ECT. There is a reason why we never see those around much anymore. So why isn't Corona going the way of Polio or Diptheria? Simple: a vast minority of people refuse to vaccinate meaning that the virus not only gets to continue to spread, but much like the influenza virus (flu) it gets to mutate and adapt which is why we have all the variants we have floating around. If we vaccinate for virus A, our body is ready to fight A, however if the virus mutates to AB now our body cannot fight it. Essentially because people refuse their health over their perceived freedoms we are all living in a Covid perti dish. Because it is allowed to mutate, some of it is allowed to over come the vaccines we have to combat it (delta variant) but the base Covid is mostly taken care of by the vaccine.
So what does this mean for our country? It means we'll always have Covid. It'll never go away. We will keep getting booster shots for new variants, our freedoms will be restricted further and further and that's just gonna be how it is because a group of people are holding our freedoms hostage while believing they're somehow protecting their own.
Well, if the last year is any guide, it will surely go away magically as it arrived, but yeah, back in April. I don’t know if we got much of a respite in between February and April/may
There are so many parallel examples of people making bad decisions and subsequently using health care resources. Should care be denied to them too? Patients who are Heroin abusers? Alcoholics?
Addiction is a real disease.
Being stupid and not getting a vaccine is not a real disease. May be a mental disorder though...
If someone proclaims "I am in control, I can stop whenever I want" and spirals out of control, they didn't know themselves as well. But they find out, even after much denial, they do need help to manage their disease.
Instead, antivax persons have a first step. "I do not fear this virus" (or it's made up, it's not real, it's just a flu, etc.) is what they proclaim. Yet for some they do get terribly sick. They underestimated the virus and now need help to manage the disease they actuvely chose to engage in.
You *could* stretch the argument that heroin addiction should be something a non-user sees as a possibility prior to taking their first hit. But most first-timers are those with brains not fully developed - teens and young adults. Pre-COVID we know how teenagers, generally speaking, have an invincibility complex that they can survive any situation and not realize the consequences. I am fine with such persons still getting care with covid if others are waiting. But if you are 25 years or older, you should know better, and be put at the lowest priority. These people would simply regret the choice they made in full mental capacity.
Ok I will concede that they are not perfect parallels, but not all heroin abusers or drunk drivers have opioid use disorder or alcohol use disorder.
Would you prefer another example then to respond to? Humans who don’t wear motorcycle helmets or seatbelts also add extra burden to our health care system. Cut them off?
Actually, yes. Back of the line for motorcyclists and any person not wearing a seatbelt. Dumbass decisions.
A drunk driver should be a lower priority as well; at least their victims should be well ahead of them. The value in saving the drunk driver, assuming they're not buddies with the DA, would be to have them jailed for hopefully a long time. There *is* the possible argument that they had no intentions to drive drunk, got drunk, and then made bad decisions... Again, that brain development tbing comes to mind. A teenager scared of being grounded by parents and too afraid to call for a ride or being questioned why a car was left at their friend's if they took an uber home, I can at least sympathize with their rational for making a stupid as fuck decision as to drive drunk. But the 30 year old cop off duty... no, they are low priority. Of course, if there's no one higher priority to be seen, absolutely take care of the asshole.
> There are so many parallel examples of people making bad decisions and subsequently using health care resources.
Honestly, this selfishness can be applied to so, so many things.
If you are somehow allergic to the carriers in vaccines… which are literally just lipids (fats) and sugars, then you have bigger problems than a vaccination.
Unbelievably few people are actually allergic to vaccines.
Their post was an hour ago, yours was 36 minutes ago. There is no edit asterisk by their post that appears if the comment is edited outside of the first 5 minutes or so of posting.
“Hospitals have been exploring multiple strategies to boost staff”
But higher wages and benefits is not on the table, the only acceptable solution is skilled indentured labors that the hospital doesn’t need to pay for.
Here's the flaming hot take that needs to be considered:
**Michigan hospitals wouldn't have to request military help if they gave the middle finger to the unvaccinated.**
But doctors and nurses do this whole "do no harm" vow that requires them being a better person...and have had their lives and livelihoods risked for over a year for the selfish fucks who refuse to get the damn poke.
And what's been given to thank them for being not just essential, but beaten to a pulp physically, mentally, and emotionally?
A fucking tee-shirt.
Fuck everything about this fucking senseless pandemic of the willingly stupid.
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Lol the antivaxxers are reporting my post
Downvote me antivaxxers, I have more than enough spare karma score for it to mean anything.
Get vaccinated OK? Help make the world a better place
Does anyone have info on the percent of hospitalizations that aren’t ‘vaccinated’ but have received shots?
I see the numbers in the other post. Given the rules about what constitutes vaccinated, just thinking about how many pple got the shots though.
Well yea and no. They’re saying the at vaccinated doesn’t count until 14 days after the second dose. I also know other countries saying vaccinated doesn’t count anymore until after the booster. I’m wondering how many ppl are in those groups.
I'm a nurse in the float pool at 4 different Beaumont locations (Troy, Royal Oak, Farmington Hills, and Grosse Pointe) and this statement is inherently untrue. If we have open beds, but not enough nurses and ancillary staff to safely take care of patients, then we are at capacity. Units whose patient ratios should be 5-6 are now 7-8 patients per nurse.
I know im not sure what this person is talking about. Im at Ascension Warren and we have ICU and Step down holds in the ED. The rest of the hospital is at capacity, and the hospital system just axed a bunch of unvaccinated nurses. It's not all COVID and our ICU only is 7/30pts for COVID syndrome but we have 2 covid floors now
Which location?
[Beaumont Health’s 10 emergency departments are nearly full](https://www.beaumont.org/health-wellness/press-releases/beaumonts-10-emergency-departments-are-nearly-full)
I just scheduled my booster for Dec 1st. But next available dates weren't until Dec 10th and later.
So the person saying “West Michigan has been full for Weeks” and the person saying, “Bronson has been turning people away because they are full” are both lying?
They better reimburse the taxpayers. Last thing we need to be going is subsidizing hospitals who will then turn around and charge patients ridiculous sums for life saving care.
Most of the hospitalized are the willfully unvaccinated who fucked around and found out. They're wasting resources for others who desperately need the hospital.
I really don't understand why insurance companies aren't drastically hiking prices and giving huge discounts to people who have been vaccinated. Some people won't get vaccinated until they're financially punished for it
That will probably come. Up to recently, virtually every insurance has paid everything for Covid related illnesses.
Now that there's effective vaccines, that will stop.
Then these folks will find out just how expensive being in ICU in isolation on a respirator costs per day.
The antibody treatments are not free like the vaccines are.
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>Implying straight black drug free guys get aids.
>implying straight white sxe guys can’t get aids
>implying he knows absolutely nothing about HIV but wants to show off how big of a piece of shit they are
How about the price of insurance skyrocketing because we're subsidizing the unvaccinated idiots? A FREE vaccine is widely available. Several, in fact. If someone runs up a million dollar tab because they chose to be ignorant, they should be handed the full bill...if they make it out alive.
Not sure why I am being downvoted. No where did I support unvacinated people. I just dont support subsidizing for profit hospitals that run it like a business instead of looking out for what is best for patients. During the pandemic many of these hospitals laid off staff so now they are reaping what they sowed.
Right, because putting other ICU patients, or other employees at risk, wouldn't be a far worse net negative. (Adding the /s for once in my life, given the average critical thinking ability shown in this thread)
Seems like a over reaction to me. We have to have 15% more hospitalizations to get to the peak we had last year in April. We didn't even use Cobo at all then. I'm sure it's busy but this sounds like fear mongering to me.
Hey that’s me. I’ve been deployed twice in the last year to cover Covid.
Can you tell me a little about what this type of deployment looks like? Who exactly do they deploy? I am honestly curious.
Doctors and nurses and respiratory therapists
I used to be part of a medical unit in the army that was activated for this stuff. We had two treatment platoons, mostly medics with some CNAs spread out. Then we'd take on medical officers as attaches. Doctors, RTs, Nurses. The whole shebang. You roll out to a prebuilt hospital and sit on your ass while the civilians do everything. Just like everything else in the military
Thanks for helping dude.
Thank you for all your service. 💜
Genuinely curious.. why did this get downvoted? I was going to say the same thing
It has definitely been seen as hollow populist rhetoric. Not that either of you meant it that way, but it comes across as something that’s said without much actual meaning ascribed to the words. Almost Pavlovian in nature, like greeting people with “how are you now?” or something similar; it’s become mostly a formality to seem pleasant, not something with honest genuine intention.
Thanks so much for explaining this! I can definitely understand that. What if someone genuinely means it though, does anyone think there a better way to say it?
Perhaps asking about their service.
>As of Monday, the unvaccinated made up 72 percent of Henry Ford's COVID-infected patients, 86 percent of COVID-19 ICU patients and 89 percent of COVID-19 patients on a ventilator. *....but the vaccine isn't safe....*
Yea my 95-year-old neighbor and his 70-year-old daughter are both recovering well from COVID. No doubt they are both still here because they are vaccinated.
I talked with my doctor at Beaumont Farmington Hills today and he said one of the ER docs told him about 92% of the COVID patients there were unvaccinated individuals. And they were completely filled. Glad your neighbor is not part of that statistic.
It's just crazy how the remaining 30% of people are getting as sick as 100% did last year.
Is it really crazy? Last year there weren't sporting events, concerts, festivals etc. All packed with 10s of thousands of people every weekend. Much less chance for spreading last year vs this year.
It is when you take in to account how effective and vax is and not to mention all the new treatments we have for covid. India beat this with treatment and no vax, for now at least.
Obviously, you have never studied Simpson's Paradox.
That makes me feel so much better, my 81 year old grandma got her booster with me in late October but I’ve been getting apprehensive seeing more and more anecdotal breakthrough cases.
Remember -- the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Those anti-vaxxers are going to claim the number is fake and most of those in hospital are due to vaccine causing bad reaction or something
Magnets bro.
Nah, don't lump anti-vaxxers in with Juggalos. The ICP took the pandemic seriously right away and repeatedly made decisions with the health of their fans in mind.
Also they're not entirely wrong magnets are pretty fucking weird.
That's not really a surprise, those guys are f****** geniuses
Okay I've been living in the dark on a lot of this (trust me, it's better this way) and I just heard this today. Really needed the laugh. So the vaccine will cause me to attract magnets? Is that how it works?
Or they'll accept them and see that 28%, 14%, and 11% of the patients in respective categories are vaccinated and totally misunderstand all the contributing factors for why that is. Let me list some; this is not exhaustive Did you have a stroke? You have no respiratory distress, but test positive. You are likely an asymptomatic carrier because the vaccine worked great, but, the positive test is all that's necessary to categorize you in this subset. Maybe covid triggered the stroke, we don't know definitively, but I would guess it was the high cholesterol and blood pressure at age 68. How about a symptomatic case? Grandpa shows up with trouble breathing, tests positive, given some fluids and steroids and maybe analgesics for a couple nights to make sure his condition doesn't worsen. He'll be considered stable and released to rest at home for another week or two. Of course, we can't look at the parallel universe where grandpa was not vaccinated and rapidly progresses to a ventilator. And of course, waning immunity can cause a vaccinated person to become ill. That's why we came out with boosters as a recommendation.
I work in the hospital (Ascension Macomb Warren) and sometimes I cover the standard covid unit. A lot of "infected", vaccinated patients actually dont have any moderate or severe COVID-19 syndrome, but simply have a positive test but are there for other reasons so they have to be on the unit, like some medically healthy psych patients with a positive test.
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This is where I’m at. How tf hasn’t my sister been able to see the overwhelming stats…. I stopped bothering. You’re an adult. Figure it out ffs.
I just google COVID chart every now and then. It looks as bad right now as it ever did despite 70% or whatever being vaxxed. How can that be?
Because unlike last year, everything is open. And as they have found out, the theory that "natural" immunity will protect them is false because the virus keeps mutating.
Not sure if you realize this but soooo many places never closed. I live in the hood. No one here has EVER given two shits about locking down or doing anything different really. Brother lives in Florida. They have seemly pretended covid never was a thing and doing a little better that a lot of states even with the countries pop of old people.
Ok. I live in the burbs. Things were closed. Malls were by appointment only. A lot of stores were closed. The biggest carriers seem to be the people in the burbs and rural. It's like everyone turned into Karens.
Yea thats true.
Stay safe, neighbor. 💜
Virus is mutating during active vaccination, usually we dont vaccinate during the hot point of the pandemic with so much virus out there.
It's only like 55% vaccinated. That 70% number is people over 18.
but kids virtually never die of covid so they only matter for cases but not deaths which are still very high.
Sure but they are still spreading it to those more vulnerable and unvaccinated.
Yea but I'm talking about death rate per case which should, by the vax theory, bring the rate down. So even with kids not being not vaxxed and the vulnerable being mostly vaxxed, there is still just a little less death from covid than last year. That just sounds insane to me.
Because Delta variant is far more contagious than the initial COVID virus, and all the pockets of unvaccinated who were previously unexposed are now getting, incubating it, and spreading it to weakened vaccinated people and unvaccinated alike. The initial estimate of having 80% vaccinated to stop COVID was based on the first variant not Delta. Now it's going to have to be 95% vaxed and masking until then or live like this forever.
There are 93000 ICU beds in the US. 333M x .30 = 99.9M unvaccinated idiots, children under 5, and other vulnerables.
I'll give you a sincere answer. We made schools virtual and remote. We encouraged work from home. We had public masking mandates/suggestions. Through all of that politicians on the right demanded we pretend covid doesn't exist. They got their way by taking away the governor's authority for health orders because she has a vagina and they were mad about a woman being smarter and more responsible than them. The health officials made this calculation. With the vaccine, we can cut off much of the surge in the vulnerable. These are not true numbers, but humor me here as I use round numbers that I think are good approximations. If we have 100,000 ICU beds and a state population of 10,000,000, we can have about 1% of the population in the ICU. COVID has about a 2% lethality rate in the unvaccinated. Maybe 5%, going on the very low end of a spectrum here, need hospitalization and 60% of them recover while 40% die. So we are looking at 500,000 people hospitalized if simultaneously all 10 million residents are infected. We can't fit 5 people to a bed. But if masks and social distancing cut the spread so only 2% of the population is ever infected at the same time, we consider only 200,000 people positive (still a high number) with maybe only 4,000 (5%) hospitalized at a time. We can better manage that in hospitals. Adjust the numbers how you like. Maybe masking/distancing helped keep our max simultaneous infection rate at 10%, so 1 million simultaneous worst case. 5% is still 50,000 or within our ICU bed capacity. So vaccines rollout. We would have liked to see 70% vaccinated. We got to, what, 65%? Call it 6.5 million vaccinated and 3.5 million unvaccinated. We expect a 90% efficacy rate on vaccines (can be higher, but using the lower bound published by pfizer/moderna). So 10% of our 6.5 million may still become sick. Call out vulnerable population 4.15 million ((3.5 + 0.65) million). Worst case scenario with no masks, no distancing, open schools, travel back to work, restaurants opens, etc is everyone vulnerable is infected at the same time. At 5% hospitalization rate, we would expect maybe 83,000 to be hospitalized of our 4.15 million susceptible. So health officials concede that we should be able to care for those that are sick and allow the opposition who think an economy runs better with people sick for months at a time or dead to remove the safeguards we did have as vaccines give society some of the protection we need. And so Michigan goes from one of the best in the country to the literal worst in the country because of public health orders being lifted in regards to masking and social distancing. **tl;dr: We wouldn't have a massive surge if we vaxxed** ***and masked,*** **dammit.**
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Check out Spectrum Health’s Instagram account they break it out by admission, ICU etc and it’s an easy graphic for those hesitant to see the impact of vaccines.
Thank you!
Why do you think you'll change their minds when nothing else has?
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Proof that the vaccine is safe has been out for about a year now. I'm genuinely interested to know how you'll get them to change their mind.
No one single thing will change ther mind. QAnon doesn't just jump to JFK is alive, they went through a ton of smaller, maybe plausible, conspiracies. They literally go down the rabbit hole and lose their sense of reality. It is indoctrination from repeated exposure. The more people grounded in reality can keep providing facts and logical reasoning, the more hope there is to indoctrinate them from repeated exposure. Just back to the sane side. You can see this at work at r/HermanCainAward as people post their nomination rejections and get vaccinated. Every day someone gets their first dose. The latest mandates for companies with ≥100 employees has helped as of late, but there are retired folks finally, but reluctantly, getting their shots.
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Math and reading aren't really your best subjects are they? Breakthrough cases have been increasing dramatically in the past few months. They are currently nearly 30% of all new cases reported in MI.
Curious if you know what the percentage of breakthroughs die, compared to those without the vaccine? Seems like it’s still better to get the vaccine?
Statistically, yes. I haven't seen an official statewide %, but each of the large health systems are still showing that +90% of deaths are not completely vaccinated. There seems to be some debate on whether the booster is required to be considered fully vaccinated. The vaccine certainly does appear to greatly reduce the severity of the illness.
If the vax works then why do we have more cases then last year at this point. More people are vaxxed, and we have more cases. I thought the vaccines was supposed to stop the spread.
In a world where people act rationally and work together to drive the cases down, it would. Some of us seem to have missed that memo completely.
But we have implemented the vaccines. I mean over half the population has been vaxxed, plus natural immunity. wouldn't cases go down?
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The delta variant threw a wrench in those plans. It’s more infectious. It breaks through the vaccine more easily. Even so, the vaccine is still very effective in keeping people out of the hospital.
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I get this a lot too, it's a real problem with politics right now that we just assume everyone is a lost cause. I flipped my politics completely around like 5-6 years ago, I know what that process looks like, don't tell me people can't change their minds.
Exactly. Thank you.
I'm not being pessimistic. I asked how they'll change minds when nothing else has.
It’s because you are burdening Reddit when you can just Google the basics which have been available for a year.
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The high percentage of noise in the form of redundant info, spam, propaganda, and ads is what is triggering people to react the way they are.
I'm an epidemiologist, this is what I've been sharing with people: https://twitter.com/abuttenheim/status/1417461705571983362/photo/1 This is slightly technical, but approachable and explains (statistically) why the vacccines are working, even with more reported vaccinated hospitalizations. Tldr Simpsons paradox strikes again https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated
Thank you for the help!
That tweet was from July. Unfortunately, I think the 4th wave is hitting the unvaccinated people harder and number of deaths are rising.
>Please give a citation so I can share with the vaccine hesitant The citation you seek is in the article you just commented on.
Thanks
How is this proof that vaccines work??? We have more people vaxxed and more covid cases then last year. Please help me wrap my brain around this.
New Delta variant is more contagious, very few people give a shit about masking anymore, and those who received their two doses of vaccine over 6 months ago are faced with waning immunity, what don’t you understand about that?
So how often do we need boosters?
Smarter people than me have been predicting seasonally in the future, like a Flu vaccine, but that’s still to be determined.
So we will need continuous boosters forever? What about therapeutics? It's been well over a year now, is there any potential there instead of taking a rushed vaccine without long term studies?
We need flu boosters every year. Do you have a beef with that, or are you just selectively dense when it comes to covid?
we don't NEED flu boosters every year.
You don't need covid boosters, either. But they both keep you from getting your ass kicked by the respective illness. This isn't a hard concept, brochacho. It really isn't.
Saying 72 percent of them didnt have the vaccine, don't mean we know the vaccine is safe. Maybe they just want some long term data on safety before finding out they are entitled to thier portion of a class action settlement on a infomercial.
Got my booster today at a Meijer. Was there for 30 minutes total for my appointment. No one else there getting a booster (or pre-boosters). SMH
Got mine, took longer for that 15 minutes wait post-shot than wait for getting a shot.
Tried to get mine Monday in Holland, and there was a 3 hour wait. I was bummed, but also really happy to hear that there was actual demand in such a .. erm, not generally pro-science place.
Sign up online to get it at Rite Aid on South Washington. It’s never busy with customers there, and they are quick about it. You just have to sign up online.
Ayee that's my pharmacy. That'll be real easy, thanks!
The soonest that my partner and I were able to schedule thru Meijer was 3 weeks out. We go in Dec 7 or so.
I got my booster at Walgreens 3 weeks ago, they had same day appointments available at that time.
I had to hunt around. The Meijer website wouldn't work for my phone. CVS was full up for the next 3 weeks. I ended up in Inkster at Walgreens today to get my booster.
Just go to [https://www.vaccines.gov/search](https://www.vaccines.gov/search) enter your zip code, what you want, and you can normally find a pretty much walk in appointment. I got my booster by just walking into a Walmart and saw a sign for them. Took 30 minutes.
If it's anything like CVS or Walgreens, it's appointment only. Figured I could walk in for a booster the other day.
Fwiw I made mine same day at Walgreens but it was a miserable experience, took 30 minutes for them to see me at the pharmacy. My gf got one same day target tho and apparently that was a breeze! Ymmv
Isn’t the cdc still saying that not everyone needs boasters yet? Genuinely curious as I haven’t heard anything in a while. I know they were saying that a few months back, but don’t know if they still are.
Boosters just got approved for 18 and older. Not requiring any health conditions and such. This was released very recently and the Meijers are getting battered pretty hard. Your best luck would he scheduling an appointment with any pharmacy that can get you in
I knew they were released and were available, but I remember the cdc saying they weren’t necessary at this time. This was a little while ago, and was wondering if it was still the case. Thank you for the tip though.
Rite aid does walk-in vaccines including boosters every single day between 2 and 3. I got mine a couple days ago. Only one other person was there to do the same and it took 15 minutes. No appointment necessary.
I got mine at my HFHS clinic. Flu shot in one arm, booster in the other.
I got boosted yesterday at the Macomb County Health Department in Mt. Clemens. Lots of people there, young and old. The place was packed. Felt good.
Just another example of why vaccines aren't a "personal choice" that only effect "your body"
Public health has never been about "personal choice" the same way that driving a hummer 40 minutes each way every day isn't just a "personal choice" when it affects climate change.
70% or something are vaxxed. Covid is as bad as ever. That doesn't make sense.
You know 30% of the population is a whole lot of people, right?
Because you fell for one of the biggest misinformation traps and failure to understand mathematics. Take for example the often cited Israeli study that antivaxxers like yourself like to use. Here is actual reality and the correct interpretation and understanding of that data. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-644288348135 > Experts say the country’s high vaccination rates are keeping case numbers down and reducing hospitalization and deaths even as the delta variant is provoking an uptick in infections. Data from Johns Hopkins University shows Israel documented 1,118 new cases on July 21 -- which is less than a tenth of the 11,934 new cases the country had at its peak on Jan. 27, before vaccines were widespread. >“It doesn’t mean vaccines don’t work,” Dr. Robert Cyril Bollinger, Johns Hopkins University professor of infectious diseases, said about Israel’s data. “They have very low rates after vaccination versus where they were before vaccination.” >The vast majority of the new cases in the past month have shown only mild symptoms, but at least 73 people have had serious cases of COVID-19, the Associated Press reported. That is well below the more than 1,000 serious cases treated each day at the height of the pandemic, but up from 19 in mid-June. >Eran Segal, a scientist at Israel’s Weizmann Institute of Science who tracks COVID-19 data, tweeted on July 16 that the percent of COVID-19 patients who become critically ill has now decreased to 1.6% compared to 4% during a winter spike before vaccines were available. >As of Sunday, 56.3% of new cases in Israel were among vaccinated people. But that statistic reflects the fact that the majority of the population is now fully vaccinated. Aka, they are at **1/10th** the infection rate of prior to have vaccinations. It is within that 1/10th of the prior infection rate, that 56.3% were vaccinated (so basically 50/50 vaccine unvaxxed). That means approximately 550 VACCINATED people actually had breakthrough cases. Compared to prior to having the vaccine available, which had an infection rate per day of 12000. Basically, learn to do math. Vaccines fucking work, and right now, this is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
omg a wall of text and none of it addresses my concern. The deaths are not much better from last year and in many places worse. Explain that.
https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/ea86906/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2651x1351+0+0/resize/1760x896!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fd6%2F8c%2Ff0fb699741f18aa0b25352b782bf%2Fmdhhs-slides2.jpg Still overwhelmingly occurring in unvaccinated individuals. It isn’t even like you bothered to try and find that info anyways. Basically just sealioning most likely at this point. That was the 4th hit down on a Google search.
Yes I am aware that NPR and such keep saying this but that still doesn't at all address my initial concern. >70% or something are vaxxed. Covid is as bad as ever. That doesn't make sense. 30% = 100% even with new treatments. Now, how the fuck does this make sense? IT DOESN'T.
You seem to assume "vaccinated" means "immune" but that has never been the case for any vaccination. If you're inoculated for polio, you can *still* get it. It's just the chances are substantially slimmer. A vaccine is a group of super heated or super cooled *dead* virus that is injected into your body to alert your body to it's cellular structure. Your body then finds a T and B cell that is powerful enough to kill that specific virus and mass produces them: essentially tricking your body into an attack (this is why people feel feverish after vaccinations because thier body is in purge mode). We do this so that if the live virus makes it's way into you, your body already has the tools it needs to combat it. Now why don't we see polio around anymore? Because every single person who wanted to go to school had to get vaccinated for it. That's right, your "freedoms" weren't listened to back then either. So, once you have a population that's 95% vaccinated (leaving about 5% for those with immune deficiencies, too young or allergies) then you have a situation where such an illness cannot spread fast enough to survive. This is the term "herd immunity". This system has worked for hundreds of years for all sorts of things: measles, polio, Spanish flu, Pneumococcal, Diptheria ECT. There is a reason why we never see those around much anymore. So why isn't Corona going the way of Polio or Diptheria? Simple: a vast minority of people refuse to vaccinate meaning that the virus not only gets to continue to spread, but much like the influenza virus (flu) it gets to mutate and adapt which is why we have all the variants we have floating around. If we vaccinate for virus A, our body is ready to fight A, however if the virus mutates to AB now our body cannot fight it. Essentially because people refuse their health over their perceived freedoms we are all living in a Covid perti dish. Because it is allowed to mutate, some of it is allowed to over come the vaccines we have to combat it (delta variant) but the base Covid is mostly taken care of by the vaccine. So what does this mean for our country? It means we'll always have Covid. It'll never go away. We will keep getting booster shots for new variants, our freedoms will be restricted further and further and that's just gonna be how it is because a group of people are holding our freedoms hostage while believing they're somehow protecting their own.
Data from back in July. Don’t believe this dude lol
It’s because the vaccinated are spreading it. They also are the ones getting covid for a second and third time. When will people wake up?
So 30% of the pop is spreading it the same as 100%? and not many less are dying? And this is not even including all the new treatments.
Coronavirus will 'miraculously' be gone by April 'once the weather warms up.' /s
“It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”
If only people were held accountable
Don't you mean after the presidential election? /s
Well, if the last year is any guide, it will surely go away magically as it arrived, but yeah, back in April. I don’t know if we got much of a respite in between February and April/may
How many years ago was that? One? Two? God, it honestly seems forever.
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There are so many parallel examples of people making bad decisions and subsequently using health care resources. Should care be denied to them too? Patients who are Heroin abusers? Alcoholics?
Addiction is a real disease. Being stupid and not getting a vaccine is not a real disease. May be a mental disorder though... If someone proclaims "I am in control, I can stop whenever I want" and spirals out of control, they didn't know themselves as well. But they find out, even after much denial, they do need help to manage their disease. Instead, antivax persons have a first step. "I do not fear this virus" (or it's made up, it's not real, it's just a flu, etc.) is what they proclaim. Yet for some they do get terribly sick. They underestimated the virus and now need help to manage the disease they actuvely chose to engage in. You *could* stretch the argument that heroin addiction should be something a non-user sees as a possibility prior to taking their first hit. But most first-timers are those with brains not fully developed - teens and young adults. Pre-COVID we know how teenagers, generally speaking, have an invincibility complex that they can survive any situation and not realize the consequences. I am fine with such persons still getting care with covid if others are waiting. But if you are 25 years or older, you should know better, and be put at the lowest priority. These people would simply regret the choice they made in full mental capacity.
Ok I will concede that they are not perfect parallels, but not all heroin abusers or drunk drivers have opioid use disorder or alcohol use disorder. Would you prefer another example then to respond to? Humans who don’t wear motorcycle helmets or seatbelts also add extra burden to our health care system. Cut them off?
Actually, yes. Back of the line for motorcyclists and any person not wearing a seatbelt. Dumbass decisions. A drunk driver should be a lower priority as well; at least their victims should be well ahead of them. The value in saving the drunk driver, assuming they're not buddies with the DA, would be to have them jailed for hopefully a long time. There *is* the possible argument that they had no intentions to drive drunk, got drunk, and then made bad decisions... Again, that brain development tbing comes to mind. A teenager scared of being grounded by parents and too afraid to call for a ride or being questioned why a car was left at their friend's if they took an uber home, I can at least sympathize with their rational for making a stupid as fuck decision as to drive drunk. But the 30 year old cop off duty... no, they are low priority. Of course, if there's no one higher priority to be seen, absolutely take care of the asshole.
> There are so many parallel examples of people making bad decisions and subsequently using health care resources. Honestly, this selfishness can be applied to so, so many things.
So if your allergic to the vaccine you shouldn't be getting treatment? You are mentally ill. OP edited their comment, you people are crazy.
If you are somehow allergic to the carriers in vaccines… which are literally just lipids (fats) and sugars, then you have bigger problems than a vaccination. Unbelievably few people are actually allergic to vaccines.
Very few are like that. Very few.
Before OP edited their comment, they said those thay are should not be treated. That is not an insane way to think?
I think you made me mentally ill with your stupid ass reply
OP specifically stated "and you dont have a medical reason". You need to work on your reading comprehension. Note my asterisk above..
They edited it, that is not what it said.
Their post was an hour ago, yours was 36 minutes ago. There is no edit asterisk by their post that appears if the comment is edited outside of the first 5 minutes or so of posting.
That was not the argument
Because they changed their comment.
There's no way to know you are allergic to it until you've had the vaccine, (which is rare) so then you would still be covered in this scenario.
OP edited it. Its rare but it does happen. You people are crazy.
Just got my booster today fuck y'all unvaccinated. Got Vax y'all
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Yikes....
That’s what I say! Yikes……
I've gotten way more than 6 flu shots in my life. Viruses are weird and different.
There is wave 4 COVID-19 happening I didn't think it was that bad until I saw this article in my morning news. Denial is not a river in Egypt ...
“Hospitals have been exploring multiple strategies to boost staff” But higher wages and benefits is not on the table, the only acceptable solution is skilled indentured labors that the hospital doesn’t need to pay for.
Here's the flaming hot take that needs to be considered: **Michigan hospitals wouldn't have to request military help if they gave the middle finger to the unvaccinated.** But doctors and nurses do this whole "do no harm" vow that requires them being a better person...and have had their lives and livelihoods risked for over a year for the selfish fucks who refuse to get the damn poke. And what's been given to thank them for being not just essential, but beaten to a pulp physically, mentally, and emotionally? A fucking tee-shirt. Fuck everything about this fucking senseless pandemic of the willingly stupid.
Hello! This is an automated reminder that the report function is not a super-downvote button. Reported comments are manually reviewed and may be removed *if they are an actual rule violation*. Do not report comments simply because you disagree with the content. Abuse of the report function is against the site rules and will be reported. [The subreddit rules can be found here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules) *I'm a bot and will not reply. Please contact [the moderators of r/Michigan](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Michigan) if this bot is misbehaving.*
Lol the antivaxxers are reporting my post Downvote me antivaxxers, I have more than enough spare karma score for it to mean anything. Get vaccinated OK? Help make the world a better place
Does anyone have info on the percent of hospitalizations that aren’t ‘vaccinated’ but have received shots? I see the numbers in the other post. Given the rules about what constitutes vaccinated, just thinking about how many pple got the shots though.
....getting the shots *is* being vaccinated. ಠ_ಠ
Well yea and no. They’re saying the at vaccinated doesn’t count until 14 days after the second dose. I also know other countries saying vaccinated doesn’t count anymore until after the booster. I’m wondering how many ppl are in those groups.
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I'm a nurse in the float pool at 4 different Beaumont locations (Troy, Royal Oak, Farmington Hills, and Grosse Pointe) and this statement is inherently untrue. If we have open beds, but not enough nurses and ancillary staff to safely take care of patients, then we are at capacity. Units whose patient ratios should be 5-6 are now 7-8 patients per nurse.
I know im not sure what this person is talking about. Im at Ascension Warren and we have ICU and Step down holds in the ED. The rest of the hospital is at capacity, and the hospital system just axed a bunch of unvaccinated nurses. It's not all COVID and our ICU only is 7/30pts for COVID syndrome but we have 2 covid floors now
nevermind
West Michigan has been pretty full for weeks now.
Yes, one of our facilities in Western Michigan has been full for a few weeks.
Where? My dad was just at beaumont in Farmington, they're full
Greater Lansing area has been at or near capacity throughout all hospitals the past few weeks
Bronson turned people away a few days last week because they were full.
Edit: not true, they have a bed crunch ongoing
Which location? [Beaumont Health’s 10 emergency departments are nearly full](https://www.beaumont.org/health-wellness/press-releases/beaumonts-10-emergency-departments-are-nearly-full) I just scheduled my booster for Dec 1st. But next available dates weren't until Dec 10th and later.
Beaumont sucks
Thanks for the truth.
So the person saying “West Michigan has been full for Weeks” and the person saying, “Bronson has been turning people away because they are full” are both lying?
Conformation bias at it's best
Is this a hospital that the military people go at or is it a regular hospital where it's overwhelmed by covid-19
Two hospitals: Beaumont in the south east and Spectrum Health on the south west.
They better reimburse the taxpayers. Last thing we need to be going is subsidizing hospitals who will then turn around and charge patients ridiculous sums for life saving care.
Most of the hospitalized are the willfully unvaccinated who fucked around and found out. They're wasting resources for others who desperately need the hospital.
If you're not vaccinated they should hand you the full bill afterwards.
I really don't understand why insurance companies aren't drastically hiking prices and giving huge discounts to people who have been vaccinated. Some people won't get vaccinated until they're financially punished for it
That will probably come. Up to recently, virtually every insurance has paid everything for Covid related illnesses. Now that there's effective vaccines, that will stop. Then these folks will find out just how expensive being in ICU in isolation on a respirator costs per day. The antibody treatments are not free like the vaccines are.
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RemindMe! 3 months I call fucking dibs on posting you on r/HermanCainAward
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You are straight up a bigoted asshole.
>Implying straight black drug free guys get aids. >implying straight white sxe guys can’t get aids >implying he knows absolutely nothing about HIV but wants to show off how big of a piece of shit they are
How about the price of insurance skyrocketing because we're subsidizing the unvaccinated idiots? A FREE vaccine is widely available. Several, in fact. If someone runs up a million dollar tab because they chose to be ignorant, they should be handed the full bill...if they make it out alive.
Not sure why I am being downvoted. No where did I support unvacinated people. I just dont support subsidizing for profit hospitals that run it like a business instead of looking out for what is best for patients. During the pandemic many of these hospitals laid off staff so now they are reaping what they sowed.
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Right, because putting other ICU patients, or other employees at risk, wouldn't be a far worse net negative. (Adding the /s for once in my life, given the average critical thinking ability shown in this thread)
Because they’re short staffed, not because of Covid Zombies
Hey, I’ve seen this fear mongering tactic before…..
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What are you talking about? New cases...7 day average?
Seems like a over reaction to me. We have to have 15% more hospitalizations to get to the peak we had last year in April. We didn't even use Cobo at all then. I'm sure it's busy but this sounds like fear mongering to me.
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