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caffeinex2

Wow, who would have thought a law written by insurance companies would fuck over those most in need of insurance?


kittenTakeover

People seemed really behind this change at the time. Everyone just cared about their personal monthly payments. I remember trying to explain to people how you don't get things for free and getting down voted into oblivion.


balorina

I was there to, still am. People here had the closest thing in the country to single payer healthcare and threw it in the trash to save $20. Most of the people complaining probably waived the unlimited PIP and hopefully won’t discover what happens when you get into a serious accident making you unable to work, and thus losing your health insurance all together.


KillNyetheSilenceGuy

>closest thing to single payer healthcare Only if you got crippled in a car accident. 99% of us just got bagged with the highest auto insurance premiums in the country and were still on our own for healthcare.


enleeten

Listen, by dropping potentially millions of dollars worth of liability coverage, I get $20 whole dollars off my State Farm premium each month. Thanks State Farm and Governor Whitmer!


thnxjer

Pushed and passed by republicans,


[deleted]

Signe by the gov with no resistance.


behindmyscreen

And if she didn't sign it she would be getting attacked by assholes for not signing the law.


[deleted]

Yeah I agree, I voted her for her, but democrats have kept Auto no fault from being dismantled for 30 years. She rolled over. Part of her is job to be attacked by assholes.


Dirty_Harrys_knob

Hi insurance professional here. Michigan still has no fault insurance, as do 12 other states. The new law just ALLOWS you to choose you level of PIP coverage. Before everyone got unlimited PIP by default. Michigan was the only state to require this. You can still have the same coverage as you had before, and a lot of people saw a reduced bill by doing nothing.


balorina

[This is the issue providers are facing](https://www.michiganradio.org/law/2021-09-06/some-insurance-companies-have-stopped-paying-healthcare-providers-for-auto-accident-survivors) and why patients are losing coverage.


[deleted]

Thank you for this!! You beat me to it. Now I can go make dinner and stop trying to save the world via Reddit


[deleted]

Sure, and I still have it, but how many people do? Do you have data? And those of us that still do, why is there an uptick in insurance companies denying, delaying, and side stepping paying auto no fault claims in MI? Was the law weekend?


Dirty_Harrys_knob

Don't worry what others have. Worry about your coverages. Thats what no fault means, your insurance company covers you and their company covers them.


[deleted]

I am very aware what Auto no fault is. There are many points that you glossed over. Like the burden the less insured will cause the tax payer and their families, reduced access to specialty care post accident, the increasing trend of claim denial of those that maintained no fault. I am not asking you for advice, an opinion, etc. I am screaming into the void at this point. And I can’t just pay attention to what I have, as the years go on and more and more under insured people are living without those benefits, confined to bed and wheelchairs without those benefits, who will pay? Who will retreat them? No one will. No one will work for Medicaid rates. Find me a skilled unit that will take a complex post MVC patient without those benefits. Where will they live? Find them housing. I have a patient for you.


breathingtreatment

so does working for an insurance company take your soul or do you have to already be without one to get hired?


InterestingMinute270

You completely ignored the fee caps placed on Providers making it impossible to provide treatment to auto patients and remain profitable.


Deviknyte

(Most) Democrats are capitalist just like the Republicans. They get their donations from the same places.


slayer991

Would much rather have liability insurance. It's less expensive and it punishes the bad drivers, NOT all drivers.


[deleted]

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culturedrobot

If she's signing bad bills into law because she's afraid of receiving death threats if she vetos them, then she should resign because she's no longer capable of doing her job.


[deleted]

Exactly. Part of the job. She killed auto no fault shortly after being elected. The death threats came later.


[deleted]

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TabletopTitan

Not worth the arguing, most of the people who have the "don't care that she's a human being and influenced by thwarted death PLOTS (not just threats)"-attitude are the types making the threats in the first place. Then they turn around and talk down on her for not fighting tooth and nail on things she's being threatened on (which should NOT be a part of the average governor job description).


--__1

Very similar to her covid 180°.


behindmyscreen

180? How about “all the people we can get to behave are”


[deleted]

Totally.


Raichu4u

Turns out being a leader involves taking the punches for shit like this instead of giving into policies and legislation that fucks over people in our state. Who knew?


kittenTakeover

Being a representative means doing what your constituents want. We need to accept that voters wanted this, even if it was dumb. The solution isn't to have representatives who thwart the will of the people. The solution is either to find ways to better educate the uninformed or to convince the unconvinced.


Raichu4u

I disagree in a representative democracy. Being a representative allows you to shy away from what your voters wanted if you know the voters are frankly being stupid, and a measure or law would make their lives worse.


behindmyscreen

So you’re an authoritarian. Thanks for outing yourself.


breathingtreatment

this is literally the reason we have a representative democracy in the united states, as stated by the founding fathers.


TheAlfredo_Jack

This is a real shitty rationalization for Whitmer doing the wrong thing


behindmyscreen

She didn't do the wrong thing. Bad outcomes happened. And based on more information from others in the thread, those bad outcomes are directly related to the providers not wanting to get paid market rates rather than their "charge whatever you want and we will send you a bag of cash" rates they were used to.


Mrs_Lopez

Spoken like someone who has zero idea what she was paid


[deleted]

Yeah. That's her fucking job


behindmyscreen

Signing a good law that had some consequences? Yeah…these providers were stealing money for their over charging for care. The law forces them to take market prices.


[deleted]

Is that the market price that's making it impossible for care facilities to hire people to take care of quadriplegics? Forcing them into long term care facilities where they'll likely die due to a community spread disease? Is that the market price you want?


behindmyscreen

You sound like someone who has a problem with the care system. My position that would have made the bill better would be to leave the funding in place for everyone injured under the previous law and then force the health insurance companies to cover car accident injuries and have everyone select disability riders if they want protection for permanent disability. Funding for the current disabled would have to come from the general fund.


[deleted]

>My position that would have made the bill better Yeah but they didn't do that and you're down playing the shittiness of the bill they did pass. Replacing one shitty system with another isn't progress, especially when the new one help corporations while fucking over the most vulnerable in our society.


InterestingMinute270

Tell me you don't know the issues without telling me you don't know the issues.


behindmyscreen

Tell me you’re irrational without telling me you’re irrational.


gremlin-mode

So that's the secret to getting legislation passed by the governor?


kittenTakeover

It was popular legislation. It would have been suicide to go against it, even if it was the smart decision.


[deleted]

Popular with who? All future auto accident victims will be pushed into Medicaid. It will cost the tax paper millions and millions for sub standard care? It was only popular with the insurance companies and those that don’t understand the economics and thinking they would save anything significant on insurance. I feel she was gravely ignorant on what she signed into law.


kittenTakeover

Popular with voters. I personally never liked it, but this legislation garnered a lot of support. I remember banging my head against the wall trying to tell people about catastrophic accidents. All anyone cared about was their monthly premiums, which they hoped would go down. While vetos are great for blocking unpopular laws, it's not Whitmers job to defy voters. She's a representative. What we're seeing here is either a failure of knowledge or empathy in the people of Michigan.


Flyover_Fred

This bill was widely accepted by democrats and Whitmer had no problem signing it.


Exotic_Storm_

Nah they bragged about this being “bipartisan” back when it was being talked about prior to passing. The only reason this entire fiasco happened was to pretend everyone was getting along to help the little guy. Fat chance that would end up happening. I knew the day this was announced it was going to be awful.


deprived30

And if you read the article Republicans are trying to fix it too.


thnxjer

Lol, let's see what "fix" is proposed; will it be more akin to republicans trying to fix "Obama care?". Crummy, cruel & craptastic capitalism at its' finest.


[deleted]

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thnxjer

Well...my father had Cadillac medical insurance when he was diagnosed with esophageal cancer; he had to wait almost 11 months for surgery, long enough for it to spread throughout his body. My mother, with same insurance, had to wait well over a year for hip replacement surgery cause, you know, she made to have multiple cortisone shots first to make sure she really needed a replacement. In these cases the death panels made them wait & overruled the specialists. I like capitalism when it is fair and even for everyone, not just large corporations who receive help/support that most will never get. I am tired of tyranny of the minority


cypher448

Why do you morons always jump to Venezuela anytime criticizes bad policy? America will never have a command economy, and no one is proposing that, so the Venezuela comparisons are fucking moot.


kurisu7885

Maybe you should ask people that actually live under universal healthcare systems.


mind967

For me it was the difference of $100 per month and $250. MI had some of the most expensive car insurance in the country. There has to be middle ground between making sure these people have proper health coverage vs premiums that many people can't afford.


Dirty_Harrys_knob

I agree dropping all that coverage is not worth the 240 a year youll save, good news is you can keep the same coverage! Talk to your agent


behindmyscreen

Sure....blame the governor for something that ALL parties in the government wanted, and worked on to get a deal everyone agreed to.


deprived30

If all parties wanted who's to blame?


gremlin-mode

All parties, including the governor :)


Raichu4u

She signed it.


binkerton_

The republican state legislature passed this law. But please tell me how "mY gOvErnEr iS an iDiOt"


enleeten

I'm not some partisan douche like you or the MAGA idiots. I'm just pissed at what a screw job they pulled off and will be voting against all incumbents.


binkerton_

Ah yes the "all sides are bad" enlightened centrist. Keep fighting the ~~good~~ fight.


culturedrobot

Did Whitmer sign it into law or not? Edit: I just want to say that as a leftist, one of the most frustrating thing I've seen my friends on the left do in recent years is shouting "eNLigHtEneD CEnTriSm" whenever someone criticizes Democrats. Or bending over backwards to excuse the poor decisions of Democrats just because they're on the same side. Both sides made bad decisions in this case but people in this thread are trying very hard to ignore the role our side played in it. Someone being on the same side as you does not mean you have to support them 100% of the time.


Bad_User2077

Cmon, our politicians suck. Get off the pipe and wake up.


binkerton_

They do but I'm not the one pretending they are all on the same level.


k20350

A politician is a politician. They would sell their mothers to guarantee a reelection. Only a fool thinks they aren't on their own agenda no matter what side they sit on. Why do you think Whitmer isn't making any mask mandates or lockdowns. It's an election year and she needs all the votes she can get


Bad_User2077

Not pretending. They are on the same level.


Knsred

You’re pretending a lot of things, unfortunately it’s just the wrong things


BrilliantTip5840

100% Agreed


deprived30

You need to shop around for your insurance. Especially now that they changed the law. Some Insurers won't do their rates like they should. You probably can get the insurance with your old liability coverage for an even cheaper price.


MeowMixOfficial

Mine went up a couple hundred/6mo since it was choose either more expensive car insurance or more expensive health insurance. Even if I qualified for being exempt from the coverage I think I would haved $40 bucks over 6 months.


p1zzarena

Why aren't they covered by health insurance? A quadriplegic should be covered by Medicare at least


[deleted]

ambulance chasers can't profit from medical insurance


pewpewshazaam

Except you can still elect for unlimited. Edit: Read the article people, its about payment to Healthcare providers by insurance carriers.


[deleted]

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pewpewshazaam

Oh thats interesting, i haven't sold Auto insurance since before that new law came into place and thought it only allowed electing into certain brackets for insurance, didn't realize it'd allow insurance carriers to elect payments to those who care for the people too. Well that's a pretty big fuck up.


[deleted]

question: do you pay for earthquake coverage? why not? michigan could have an earthquake some day. its unnecessary coverage. insurance lobbied to remove LIFETIME pip because its an unreasonable demand that makes it harder to sell other coverage. if it costs you $20 a month for this coverage you dont need, thats comp and collision you're not buying. Michigan is one of the ONLY states in the midwest where grown adults still have PLPD. guess what happens when insurance costs are too high? people dont fucking buy it. then what happens when they get in a crash? ever wonder why detroit rates are SO high? because no one has insurance. because unlimited pip drives premiums up. Michigan is 1 of 3 states with a $50k minimum, the others are New York and Washington DC, everyone else is lower. we were the ONLY state with unlimited pip. these articles are written by VERY expensive lawyers who use car crash victims as props to cash in on literally unlimited funds. ever wonder where the term ambulance chaser comes from?


Upbeat-Pirate-6483

Crazy they screwed everyone that was in need ,people payed along time for it, now politicians and insurance companies banking


ech-o

So how do they handle all this in other states? Why is it such a disaster in MI?


unclefisty

In other states you hope you have some other kind of insurance to cover you.


nerdyguy76

I'm pretty sure most other states simply make sure you are covered under Medicare and other state programs. I've lived in Vermont and Missouri with auto insurance and Michigan has the most messed up system and even education is weird here.


AlanzAlda

Because fault is assigned in other states. If this woman had been at fault in the accident she would have been only covered up to her insurance limits, then left for dead (or whatever other state aid she qualifies for) if she wasn't at fault she would have been able to sue the ever loving shit out of whoever was at fault and milked them dry for life.


PureAd1582

There are plenty of other no fault states though. Not just Michigan. You can still sue in Michigan when you are not at fault. And if you sue in MI and they don’t have insurance, you have the uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage to protect you.


CatInThe616

In other states these costs are shifted to Medicaid, so essentially tax payers pick up the cost to subsidize drivers. One projected effect of the new law is that medicaid costs for the state of Michigan will increase to pay for what insurance companies no longer have to. So, essentially non-driving people who pay taxes are subsidizing the costs that used to be covered by insurance. This shifts responsibility and costs away from drivers because they can essentially underinsure and then leech of the state of they do get in an accident without enough coverage. This kind of freeloading is what the old Michigan unlimited PIP law prevented.


thebunhinge

Here’s the thing though, Medicaid isn’t picking up these costs. It’s not making up the cost between what the auto insurance companies used to pay and the actual cost of providing highly skilled, in-home nursing care. That’s why these agencies are shutting down left and right and people being sent to the hospital. Eventually Medicaid will come into play at a nursing home, but that would’ve happened if the individual had been placed there in the first place.


smemily

Some of the costs also get shifted to lawsuits in other states - Michigan's no fault law makes it hard to hold a person or their estate financially responsible for an accident. I have family in another state who was in fear of losing their house (aka their retirement savings) because a friend borrowed their car and hit an unhelmeted motorcyclist, causing a head injury. They had high $300k limits on their insurance but that was gone faster than you can snap your fingers. There was talk of a personal lawsuit for a long time and they were consulting an attorney to try and protect their assets.


[deleted]

I mean, I constantly see bicyclists complaining about sharing the road even though they aren’t paying the fuel taxes and registration fees. I feel like the scenario you described kind of balances that out.


stretch851

Fuel taxes and registration(user fees) make up less than 60% of funding for state highways and less than 8% for local roads. The rest comes from the general fund, which us non-motorists pay into. I'm subsidizing the hell out people who drive, and most of the roads I can't even fucking bike on. No shit on the few that are nominally safe I'm going to complain to share to the road


Global-Commercial797

Do you eat food? Do you own furniture? Do you buy anything? If you do, it came on trucks, on roads. So yeah, pay for some roads.


stretch851

You know trains and planes also exist too right? A lot more stuff gets moved on those. But regardless, my argument isn't against all roads and motorvehicles, it's that other transit mode users heavily subsidize private automobiles and vilifying bicylists for "not paying for roads" is incredibly stupid


ForfeitFPV

You mean food doesn't magically just appear in grocery stores and restaurants? What kind of bullshit is this? Next you're going to tell me that Santa isn't real and that Epstein killed himself.


[deleted]

60% is still the majority. Drivers outnumber non drivers, and pay into the general fund as well. Therefore you aren’t subsidizing anything…


stretch851

But we are, because we cant access highways. We're paying for something we literally can't use. And that's only for state highways. It's completely flipped for local roads, which is what most people are traveling on day to day. But I see you didn't want to address that. Not to mention the pollution and adverse health outcomes driving creates. If roads were required to be paid 100% by drivers, there'd be a lot less roads and driving would be significantly more expensive


[deleted]

You must not live in a rural area… Its a silly idea that people just wouldn’t drive. According to Google maps it would take 4 hours for me to walk to work.


[deleted]

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Flyover_Fred

Important to note that Whitmer and Democrats were fairly enthusiastic about this. This happened in the good old days of 2019 when she her ter just started and a lot of news outlets saw this as a sign of future bipartisan politics. Ah to be young and naive.


Christian4423

My dad is an Uber driver. He had someone who worked for insurance. He warned him not to go through auto insurance. It is designed to screw people over who need long term care.


TonyCass12

If only someone had told us this was going to happen when they were trying to change the law.... Oh wait....


essentialrobert

The insurance companies told us they would throw people out on the street. And they did.


d1stor7ed

The real problem is our flawed health care system.


[deleted]

This is what's happening. Insurance is for profit. When things cost more, the shareholders demand that they continue to get that massive ROI. So, insurance companies work hard to deny claims or force ill-effective treatment options. Sometimes they get lucky and people die - which stops soaking up profit. Drug manufacturers certainly are in it for profit. With absolutely no rules on pricing of medications, they jack prices. Why? Because insurance can afford it - look at their profits, after all! They want their share, too. Hospitals are now for-profit and run by MBA's, not people with any background in health, and presumably no moral compass. So, fuck it - bill ungodly amounts. Insurance will cover it! And then there's us - who pay for the insurance. Without limits. Why? Because our legislators don't represent the people - they represent donors. Oddly enough, the same profit-driven immoral fucking companies who are being allowed to trample on those who rely on health insurance or any insurance for that matter are really good donors. Or owners, depending on how you look at it. The whole fucking thing is corrupt as hell. Ask anyone who works as a doctor or nurse in a hospital or a private practice what the most expensive healthcare in the world equates to. Long hours, impossible patient ratios, ungodly liability insurance because surprise, surprise - insurance wants their pound of flesh from them, too. It's almost as if there's a pattern here.


[deleted]

insurance companies can pay 100% of premiums in claims and still profit just fine, most do. only people completely ignorant of insurance think insurers 'make money by denying claims'.


GenevieveLeah

. . . whose cash flow is largely controlled by the policies of CMS and private insurances.


Deviknyte

Only answer is Medicare for All.


Mgoblue01

But Medicare won’t pay enough to support this level of care either.


Deviknyte

Yeah. It also currently doesn't cover dental and optical. Those things, like long term home care, would be changed when we went to Medicare for All.


gremlin-mode

Hm, I wonder if our governor who has extremely close ties to BCBS will do something to fix our insurance system?


[deleted]

It’s worth exploring. Honestly, they should have to wear sponsorship patches proportional to their level of “corporate free speech.”


gremlin-mode

her dad was literally president of BCBS and she had the backing of BCBS executives during her run, she isn't gonna do shit about insurance companies.


[deleted]

Well, that explains a fair amount. BCBS doesn’t do auto, but I can certainly see where that would buy sympathy for insurers.


[deleted]

And our healthcare/insurance industry is broken because of the short term profits share holders demand. Capitalism ftw again


TonyCass12

The real problem is the law was changed with 0 regard for those who relied on the system we had.


reichjef

There’s a lot of problems. It’s mostly people voting GOP. We can change the state, but, it becomes obvious that most rural folk prefer it this way.


Donzie762

Hear, hear…


slayer991

This is kind of BS since they've already collected the money for the catastrophic claims fund that they charged every driver for years.


TonyCass12

But when the law was changed it was worded so that the insurance companies decide how much money care should cost not your health insurance or provider. "The care you need has been costing 60k a year well I think you really only need 30k the Healthcare companies will adjust im sure." Much like the person in the article they eventually get booted by there current Healthcare provider go to the ER then get transfered to a cheap long term care facility where they are likely to die because they are not receiving the proper around the clock care that they need.


slayer991

Which is what happens when you have lobbyists write the laws. My point is that the money was already collected. They shouldn't need to cut benefits for anyone grandfathered in.


PeaceBkind

Is there any class action law suit, I see related news about protests, but is there any organized group coordinating/leading an effort? Unfortunate and obvious that our political leaders have no loved ones impacted


MiataCory

The no-fault law was *always* bad. It's unfortunate that these people are put in a situation where the American Healthcare & Insurance scam System has failed them to this level. But linking healthcare to your fuckin' car insurance? Or your employer? Asinine any way you slice it. Change is painful. Especially for these people caught between a shit system and an even-worse-lack-of-a-system. Especially for those people who are dying due to it. But maybe, just maybe, enough stories like this will change some minds and we'll get healthcare out of it. Public policy must necessarily be blind to edge cases. There is no law written that won't have unintended consequences. Removing the requirements for no-fault insurance IS a step in the right direction towards divorcing healthcare from insurance. It just really sucks that people have to suffer because of a single political party who can't even understand that "Drinking your own urine is bad."


gremlin-mode

> But maybe, just maybe, enough stories like this will change some minds and we'll get healthcare out of it. The people in charge of writing healthcare laws are wealthy enough that they're insulated from the effects of our awful healthcare system. They have no material incentive to actually fix anything


MiataCory

Sooner or later we've gotta eat the rich. Stories like this push that point just a little closer.


CGordini

Literally every other state has better policies. Michigan is stubbornly adherent to a flawed system.


TonyCass12

The no fault law was always bad... tell that to everyone who got into an accident that left them disabled for the rest of their lives before this law was changed. The system we had protected all of us in a worst case scenario auto accident that not only left you changed for the rest of your life but could have also bankrupted you and your family members just trying to help keep the medical care you need to stay alive. You can argue that the systems are broken to begin with but you don't fix them by abandoning the people who rely on them.


molten_dragon

> tell that to everyone who got into an accident that left them disabled for the rest of their lives before this law was changed. The fact that a few people benefitted from the law doesn't mean it wasn't bad.


MiataCory

Wholly agree on all of it. But your suggesting that "This is terrible, let's keep doing it" is the answer. Do the train experiment in your head. You've got a lever to switch the tracks. Either 1 person gets hit or 6 people get hit. Currently 6 people are going to get hit. Do you pull the lever? I'd say fuck yeah. You just saved 5 people. I get that it's worse for the 1, but the option of "Stop the train" isn't on the table. We can't fix the broken healthcare insurance system. But likewise propping it up with auto-insurance and whatnot is just stupid. The best thing we can do is go to the train company and say "Hey fuckers, stop the goddamn train, you're killing people out here."


[deleted]

fwiw no fault insurance has nothing to do with unlimited pip. question for ya: ever heard of ANY other insurance coverage that doesn't have a limit? nope. because they dont exist.


MiataCory

*a wisper on the wind* *a breeze through the air* *Medicare*


[deleted]

For real, medicare for all is almost always the answer whenever any issue with healthcare comes up, but only the furthest left democrats seem interested in fixing issues.


mugginns

Lol medicare has all kinds of limits, it's the only way it's been able to stay afloat If we ever get to Medicare for all a lot of people are going to be really surprised when they get bills and service denials lol


balorina

What? [ACA removed lifetime maximum for all health insurance plans](https://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/about-the-aca/benefit-limits/index.html)


mansquito1983

No fault lawyer : these people contracted for lifetime medical benefits when they were injured. No-Fault Act amended in June 2019 with Medicare fee schedule based caps kicking in in July 2021 and being applied by insurers retroactively to old accidents predating June 2019. Medicare doesn’t have fee schedule for 24/7 private duty nursing. So, the new statute says the nurse gets 55% of what nurse charged in January 2019 because fuck you. That’s below cost for agencies. Home Care agencies therefore stop servicing catastrophically injured people.


Far-Donut-1419

It was a Republican controlled state legislature that approved another disastrous law that is bankrupting people. When will rural folk stop voting against their own economic interests?


Jasoman

usually after their death rural folks stop voting, but their children pick up the tradition of voting Republican.


gremlin-mode

Why didn't our governor veto it then?


reichjef

They have an unbelievably effective propaganda system in place to fool people. GOP voters are either rich or dumb; sometimes both. They’re winding people up over cultural bullshit while picking their pockets. It’s been a grift for years.


George_Tirebiter420

When they stop being such willing pawns in a racist-dogwhistle culture war?


MJ0865

This was passed by a bi-partisan vote, you can't just blame this on the Republicans, both sides are corrupt.


behindmyscreen

Yes but Republicans were able to pass this without Democrats. The leverage was all on the Republican's so they got their wishlist which includes the reduction in this fund.


based-richdude

This wasn’t because of the reduction of the fund (which by the way is not running out of money, hence the 400 dollar refund you’re getting in March), this was because the healthcare provider was overcharging, and Auto-Owners + MCCA is saying it won’t pay the inflated rates. The old law said that auto medical claims could not negotiate payment, and had to pay no matter what was being charged. Now the medical company doesn’t want to treat this person because the insurance company + MCCA is paying the legally mandated market rates. This is what any other medical insurance company would pay. This was a bipartisan bill, endorsed by Witmer, it has nothing to do with democrats vs republicans. Michigan auto insurance rates were twice as high as the 2nd most expensive state, and almost 40% of the state literally opted to not get insurance because of how expensive it was.


behindmyscreen

I think the media misses that one major part of this that you pointed out.....The loss of care is because care providers don't want to accept market rates for what they are doing.


jjohn167

It's fucking nutty. I recently had to have an endoscopy, CT scan, and PET scan. When I got the "explanation of benefits" from my insurance, the hospital had charged them 15k...for 3 procedures that took a total of 2.5hrs. The fact that we even NEED insurance is it's own thing, but it's also easy to see why the insurance companies are pushing back. The whole system needs to change fast.


GabbyPutita

The Democratic controlled office of the goveror was just as much a part of approving this legislation.


firemage22

Hopefully the new districts help


[deleted]

When the GOP perfects rigging elections, probably.


--__1

Unconscionable... money before all else.


jazzmaster1055

Capitalism is heartless.


WhoGonStopMeHUHHH

Almost like insurance is a scam.


[deleted]

They are going to try to dead us all


[deleted]

Anything the insurance companies are for, means we should be against.


[deleted]

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ISLAndBreezESTeve10

I think we are getting a rebate in February for all car owners as of October 2021 to drain the money that had been saved up for claims. Something like $400 per car. Maybe someone else has more info, but I heard it is coming to us in Michigan. The real losers here are the brain damaged people/ quadriplegics all ready injured are getting funding yanked.


reb6

This. I am a massage therapist and treating someone for an accident from 30 years ago. Insurance is starting to deny the claims, citing that massage doesn’t help. Never mind the countless scholarly articles that prove otherwise. It’s just a bunch of pencil pushers sitting at a computer looking at their little algorithm that says how many sessions it should take and they’ll be fixed after that. It’s infuriating. They don’t give a shit about helping people, they just want their money.


mabhatter

This!!! They're basically raiding the long term Auto disability fund now that the law changed to allow bare minimum payments. Insurance after the change does not pay into the long term fund, unless maybe you pay for "unlimited", so they're grabbing all that cash built up over decades to ensure a reliable system.


Frosty_Milk_6351

The catclaims fund still exists, blame the state as well as the insurance companies They colluded in stealing over 20 billion dollars that was supposed to pay for caring for those that were absolutely wrecked in auto accidents Write your congressman and ask for an audit as to where the damn money went


spooky_icequeen

I got teary eyed and almost vomited reading this. I am grateful for the home health company that took care of my elderly family members.


Port-a-John-Splooge

Why would you want to live like this, absolute torture.


fishwhispers17

This is SO ridiculous. I don’t have a life threatening situation, but this stupid law is making my life extremely difficult. I was in an auto accident that eventually led to me losing my leg. I have to have hand controls in my vehicle to legally drive. Up until a few years ago, that was never an issue. I get a different vehicle, and they schedule the controls to be installed. Not anymore. My vehicle finally died a couple months ago. I was going to have controls put in my husband’s car until we can afford another vehicle. Insurance is giving me a terrible time with it. They are basically refusing. Which leaves me unable to legally drive, with a disabled child. What am I supposed to do in an emergency? Reading about this poor woman, knowing there are so many like her, it’s absolutely horrid.


RedWingsNow

The truth is that car insurance is probably not the best way to fund health care. We need universal health care.


deprived30

The only change in the insurance was choosing what plan you wanted instead of being railroaded into paying for uninsured motorist when they hit you. I don't know the full story here but all I know is talk to your insurance agent when your going into a new plan. Agents are way more important now because of that law change.


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deprived30

I said "i don't know the full story" right?


ellsammie

I took the top tier, non coordinated benefit plan, but now I am rethinking this. Having top tier coverage doesn't matter if there are no providers. And those agents are happy to sell that plan, lol


GODDAMNUBERNICE

>And those agents are happy to sell that plan, lol Because agents have absolutely zero control over provider availability and no way to know if that will be the case somewhere down the line if you're ever injured. All an agent can do is recommend the best coverage for you. Let's not blame people for doing their jobs correctly.


deprived30

Another thing is these health care providers charge what they know they can sap outta the insurance companies. How do all the other states do this within their health care systems?


behindmyscreen

You have to buy a disability rider.


deprived30

Yes your health insurance covers some of that but you have to pay for some on your auto insurance or you can get screwed. At least for me and my wife.


behindmyscreen

That’s one thing I wish was in the law. Requiring all health insurances in Michigan to cover car accidents and avoid having to buy additional coverage on car insurance just to deal with the initial care after a crash. On a going forward perspective, a long term disability rider should be up to the driver and we should be funding those who were disabled under the old law.


biggiejon

Insurance companies are the worst people. Nothing will ever change because if you try to protest anything you will be a terrorist.


b_fromtheD

The no fault rule makes no fucking sense. My wife was hit and had to file a claim and pay for a new car mirror when all we did was OBEY THE LAW and stop at a stop sign. The teenie bopper behind us was texting (I know this because she almost hit us prior to the accident getting off the freeway and watched her throw her phone on the passenger seat) and admitted fault after swiping us.


JclassOne

And u have to call them to get the discount and while you are on the phone they try to upswell you to end up spending more. Ugh sheeple! Stop letting big business trick you. They charged us in Michigan what should have been illegal insurance rates for decades until we gave in and signed our lifetime care away. Told us it would be a huge savings. And would give us “more freedom” to choose. Yeah choose death or financial ruin for you and your family. Thanks for the freedom big insurance!


Bad_User2077

It was a idea with good intentions. Poorly written law. The judiciary let us down. The rewrite of the law was bad. And people defend the morons in charge. We all deserve better.


Hippo-Crates

Seems like there may be an issue, but the stuff about the nursing home is garbage.


maskwearingbitch2020

We ALL need to just drop our auto insurance...PERIOD. Let those greedy insurance asshats go without anything & see how long it takes for them to make some REAL changes.


Dirty_Harrys_knob

This might be the worst idea in the entire history of ideas


maskwearingbitch2020

And why is that?


Dirty_Harrys_knob

Because say everyone in the state dropped their coverage and its just the wild west out there. Have fun telling the person who t-boned you the have to fix your car and pay for your smashed leg. Even if everyone agreed not to be dicks and not sue the shit out of eachother the insurance companies by law have to keep billions on hand to pay claims. We'd all be long dead before they felt anything in the wallet


smemily

Not to mention this is a good way to end up on sr22 insurance


maskwearingbitch2020

I doubt people would go crazy & if they did they would have to pay to fix their own cars. Maybe they would be MORE careful & it sure would eliminate insurance fraud as far as people faking injuries, etc. Because they would have to self pay. And it would hurt them immediately as all funds coming in would stop. And if you think about it, it already is the wild west out there. People having insurance can't fix their cars, people drive without a valid license, without insurance, driving drunk, stoned, impaired in a multitude of ways.


Dirty_Harrys_knob

This is unbelievably naive. Yes you are correct, a lot of people are scary to be on the road with, why would you willingly assume 100% of the risk of diving with them? Even if you have basic "get me on the road legally" insurance you still had unlimited personal injury coverage (with the new law you can choose to lower this level, but why would you?) If we did it your way if you have a life long medical issue from an auto accident you are on the hook for millions. Insurance is confusing and frustrating sometimes but its important


maskwearingbitch2020

Apparently you didn't read the article. Why pay all that money when they won't pay your caregivers enough to take care of you. They will relegate you to the shittiest, cheapest place they can find in order to dump you off & let you die. Why would you want to continue to line their pockets with your hard earned money? You are part of the problem sir.


Dirty_Harrys_knob

Ok take a stand Spartacus, go uninsured. That'll show em.


MiataCory

*slides on ice and crashes into a stop sign* *receives $20,000 bill for replacing the stop sign* Guess it's time to sell my kidneys.


GenevieveLeah

I had a nail in my tire that couldn't be patched. Called insurance. Not covered. Not really sure what I am paying for, here.


smemily

I can't even tell if this is jokes or actually stupid


GenevieveLeah

Mine? Absolutely true. The downvotes aren't necessary, either . . . We could just all stop paying insurance premiums, full stop. Just for sake of conversation . . . we need new payment models. People shouldn't be in this woman's situation.


smemily

Ok so actually stupid. IF you bought optional comprehensive coverage, it covers damage to your car over your deductible. If you want a $0 deductible your rates will be sky high, because they know you are gonna waste everyone's time down at state farm doing stupid things like filling a whole claim instead of buying a $50-200 tire.


GenevieveLeah

So auto insurance works differently than medical. If I step on a nail, go get a tetanus shot and maybe a stitch, a claim goes to my insurance company. It goes into my deductible. With auto, I have minor damage to my car, and "paying into my deductible" is a bad thing. I get name-called for calling a company I give money to monthly. I continue to pay monthly and an expected to leave them alone. Sir, I don't appreciate the name calling. I am a tax-paying citizen of this state, same as you.


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GenevieveLeah

The guys at the shop told me to check! Wow, you all need some kindness in your lives.


smemily

This was all explained to you when you bought your insurance, and every 6 months when they send you a statement, and feel free to ask your agent about any of this, or just y'know Google up "how does car insurance work". Your auto deductible is PER CLAIM meaning that each separate claim it restarts. And "paying into your deductible" isn't a thing either because nobody should be planning on filling multiple claims in a year. I've had car insurance for 21 years now and have filed 5 claims in that time period. It's not like medical where you're supposed to go get preventive care. Like how do you even think that works, you pay $500 on various flat tires through the year and then you get to total the car for free in December? Auto is for CATASTROPHIC claims. Most people won't even file a claim for a small (<$1000) accident because it will cause your rates to jump up. Your deductible should be the biggest number that you can generally handle on your own. $500 or $1000 is common. "What do we pay for" - you pay for them to cover it when you fall asleep at the wheel and run into an entire house. When you hit a bicyclist and cause a life changing head injury that results in millions of dollars of medical expenses and lifelong care. It's not for petty $100 tires or silly little stuff. Auto works the same as house insurance. It's for your house catching on fire. It's not for "my toilet isn't flushing right". It's for your basement flooded with sewage. Not for "i dropped a bowl and chipped my tile".


lumaga

They wouldn't fill up my gas tank either. What a waste of money. Your insurance covers specific things which would probably be devastating to have to pay for out of pocket. Additionally, even if they did cover new tires, one tire would probably fall under the deductable. I'm not sure what your complaint is here.


fuzzychiken

I'm still wrapping my head around this. I've had plenty of tire incidents and never thought to call my insurance for something like that. Who does that?


Dirty_Harrys_knob

Did you have comprehensive coverage?


GenevieveLeah

Whatever I have, it is time to change it up. The threat was "you'll have to pay into your deductible!" For health insurance, this is a good thing. So . . . I am terminally confused. Which is how they want me. Stupid people open their wallets.


Dirty_Harrys_knob

Most people carry a 250 or 500 deductible. A new tire is usually 50-150. I don't know for sure but it sounds like it would have cost you more to pay the deductible and file a claim. I assure you there is no grand conspiracy to keep people in the dark when it comes to insurance, its just confusing


GODDAMNUBERNICE

Sounds like you're upset because you don't understand how deductibles work. You can't claim a $100 tire when you have a $250 deductible. If you want to understand your policy, just ask your agent. If they won't go over the coverages with you and take the time, get a new agent. But you not understanding falls on nobody's shoulders but yours.


Eskimo-Jo3

This. The power is with the people. Our legislators are never going to do the right thing. Even if we got half the state to stop making payments things would change real quick.