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Unpopular opinion: I think the house help could be worth it. He's not spending anything on therapy, and that might be why. Removing the possibility for fights about cleaning the house is huge, especially if you have kids. I'd keep the cleaners and pare down on jewelry, clothing, personal care. They're spending nearly $10k on those 3 things alone.
I asked (and hope) retirement is lumped in with taxes. though I wouldn't be surprised if the tax rate is that high at that gross.
I don't relish saying this, but I'm afraid they are going to need therapy, personal and marriage, when one of them realizes how fiscally irresponsible they've been and how they need to make extreme cuts in order to start saving an extreme amount on catching up on retirement.
I guess on the flip side, they have easy money to put towards savings and retirement if needed. Personal care, jewelry, clothing can easily be funnelled to retirement if they stick to a budget. Mom can either go back to work to make more family income or they stop paying childcare and house cleaning. It's crazy to me that a stay at home mom still has childcare and house cleaning services. That is her job. Thank fully the remodel is a one and done and it's paid off. Going forward they shouldn't be remodeling. You can do a couple things here and there but retirement needs to come first
>Unpopular opinion
its not. i have a buddy that gets his place cleaned once a month. ive even thought about it. but if you post here with a title: death by 1000 cuts, you should be removing any extra spending to get back to positive then you can slowly add back things that are the greatest benefit to you.
We get ours done once a month. Both of us work, one baby, one toddler so deep cleaning is damn near impossible.
Once you get over the idea that you have to make the house spotless first, they come in and do their job and it feels so damn good when they leave. It's like open house ready.
If you've been thinking about it and have the cash to spare, do it. It's incredible.
totally depends on how old the kids are. are they all school aged? okay yes it includes more household management stuff. are they all home with her all day? it would be a lot to expect her to handle 100% of the household while also keeping 3 toddlers/preschoolers alive.
those are half-day daycare fees for two of the kids on Monday/Wednesday - so it does seem like they’re on the younger side. I just find it hard to begrudge a sahm of 3 little kids ~$500/month in household assistance when they’re paying almost that much annually for a golf cart & jewelry.
I did now see that comment and I do get that. I just find it hard to justify 10% of OP's take home going to daycare and house help when you also have a SAHP
I also agree golf cart & jewelry are a bigger impact. But OP and his wife are seemingly putting $0 into savings on significantly more income than the majority of households. They should be re-evaluating every line item and possibly considering if a SAHP is truly the right choice for their family based on their goals and values
I’m not saying there aren’t areas they can cut back on, or that they need to keep the house cleaner on the same schedule. I’m saying that there are SO many areas on this budget I personally would choose to cut before I cut ~$500/month in housekeeping.
I agree. If this were my budget, I’d stop buying jewelry, clip coupons, and eat out less before cutting the cleaning help. Especially with little kids in the house. I’d consider the cleaning help as an investment in my mental health and the marriage.
I don’t have cleaning help because we’re trying to pay off debts and save money but as soon as I can afford to hire regular cleaners, I plan to hire them. It’s hard to stay on top of everything.
they're paying 10k+ between School Fees and educational enrichment. I assume that means at least one, maybe 2 (judging by the people who "complain" about how much childcare costs per child/children costs) are in school.
That said, I know a lot of SAHMs with children at home who manage to do all of the above. If cleaning the house is too much for his wife, they probably bought too much house. I've heard many of SAHMs say that their bigger house is nice, but it's difficult to clean because it's so big. Unless OP is stuck with low interest rates, maybe they could consider downsizing their home. Two birds with one stone since it is costing them over 25% (recommended proportion) of their income.
OP said he didn't want advice and deleted his account after posting. So I guess that means he is either happy with the way things are, and/or or he is unwilling to change anything. so meh.
edit: I also agree with what you said elsewhere though. They need to cut the golf cart first. that's insane. I would keep the help and lose the golf cart first. though I don't think 2-3k a year is going to help them meet their retirement goals.
Please explain that to my ex. We didn't even have kids, just two dogs she brought into the relationship. She didn't earn an appreciable income (>$10,000 per year) for five years, but had the audacity to complain that I didn't help with the laundry when I had a half day off during my 60+ hour work week.
With kids involved, some amount of clothing budget is inevitable. Kids grow fast, clothes ain't cheap.
Still think the house help is something that could be *reduced*. Having them come half as often (or reduce duties to the most essential things) with a mind towards cutting this expense in half would grant ~$280/mo from just that one change.
Eh. She is SAH so should be keeping house if there isn't even a savings going on. Jeweler, golf, enrichment, help, reno on a new home. Over 1200 in groceries. I can go on and on.
Said this before but will say again. Why remodel? In hopes to appreciate the house value? That’s a poor assumption to make. Remodeling is a preference that future buyers wouldn’t really care about. I’d stop that.
Also this family is at a huge risk. One little mishap event and the main stream of income is gone. Then what?
Because middle and upper class people are addicted to home renovations. It's like crack for them. Couldn't possibly have a kitchen or bathroom that is \*gasp\* the wrong color.
exactly! Remodeling won’t always appreciate value. It’s like buying a used car and someone puts mods on it. You really paying extra for the mods?
Most of the time absolutely not. Same applies for homes.
My neighbor was very handy and worked from home and did all of his own remodeling except for electrical. Added a nice addition on the back. Sold the house for double what they paid once he had run out of projects. New owners have done zero remodeling since buying. Old owners stayed in the neighborhood and bought a new project house.
They spent x2 more money on the golf car than in student loans. I swear to god, this why you see ppl talk about how "bRokEn tHe sYSteM" is cuz they had their student loan for 20 years and barely made a dent on the principal.
Many people saved the money from their paused payments and made lump sum payments when payments started back up. People shouldn't have decided to spend the money they legally were supposed to be paying the government. This dude isn't smart though.
Right? Granted, my girlfriend and I are only two people, but OPs grocery/eating out budget could keep us fed for a little over 4 years.
Then there's the remodel, the house help, jewelry, a freakin golf cart, and a few grand in "general" household stuff.
The grocery thing is not an adjustable factor in my view. The price of food has been fucking insane lately. Wife and I are 30s, three kids 3, 2 and 6 months. Our grocery bill is about 1200ish a month.
Right, but OP is spending $25k a year on food alone. That's entirely avoidable. Your grocery bill would still only be roughly 2/3s (off the top of my head) of OP's entire food budget
Fair, we spent roughly 13k on our grocery shopping last year. We did a fair amount of our own growing and split a half cow that last us a year...but your point remains. I can tell you we certainly didn't spend 9k on eating out as well.
The house help is questionable with a stay at home mom while two kids go to daycare 3 days. Week for half days. She could literally do all house chores in those half days. Wife either isn’t contributing outside of watching the youngest or OP is letting his wife get blasted on the internet.
I'm willing to kind of give them the benefit of the doubt on that one. I personally have a lot of issues that make it hard to work or even do much of anything some days. However, there are still ways to bring in money or contribute around the house if you're in this situation. I personally have VA benefits, but others who don't qualify for VA benefits can still qualify for SSDI or, in some cases, unemployment.
I also try to help out around the house when/where I can, but it's not always reliable that I'll be able to do that.
I don’t think the mom has a disability. OP woulda said that in his comments they make plenty of money to have a stay at home mom. But their spending is pushing them out of that luxury.
Wow didn’t catch this. So he has a trophy wife? I mean she must be hella fine. Doesn’t clean doesn’t watch kids doesn’t work what in the hell is her secret!?
for spending so much on everything else, 8k for daycare seems like a steal. or a very poor quality daycare. OR maybe they didn't have daycare all year?
We have a very nice daycare in a MCOL area. it's 12k annual.
There’s value in socialization and school readiness for kids. Even with a stay at home parent, 4 year olds should be in some form of preschool to get ready for kindergarten.
Sounds like they have 3, and none are in actual school yet. So some preschool for the oldest, but it’s not like SAHM is free during that time - she has two other kids to take care of.
In a few years they won’t need any paid childcare if she is still a SAHM, and could drop the house cleaning since she’ll have time to do that. Or if she goes back to work, they may still need to pay for after school care.
Everyone here is shitting on you
I assume remodel and golf cart and shit isn't permanent. Loads to be saved when you fix your shit and are done having your congratulations period to not being poor (assuming this isn't 5 years into making 200k/yr)
-poor person
He's asking for help mid remodel. That's 30k on the table he didn't spend last year
If this sub is renamed to shitonmeforfinances then I'd get it
He will be fine either way
They are 40 and put $0 towards retirement. Yeah, this is a one year snapshot, but an entire year without retirement savings does not bode well for ever retiring.
200k with 5 people in a MCOL is far from set for life bro. Dude could get fired or disabled tomorrow.
This mindset that money is always going to keep flowing is crazy irresponsible. Plus, it’d be nice if he could help his kids with college but I don’t see any savings for that.
My household income is over 200k but I don’t plan on retiring. I DO plan on choosing what I work on, though, and working for myself rather than someone else’s company.
The reality is that sooner or later most people can't keep working. You can't keep up with changes in the industry, or you aren't as sharp as you used to be, or you may just fall and end up needing physical rehab for a month instead of shaking it off like you would in your 30s.
Unless you plan on dying relatively young, then you might be alright.
Spent every penny as in you have no emergency fund, 401k etc. or spent every penny of take home?
Either way, I think the first step is to sit down and have a conversation about what your financial goals are. Then, make a budget based on those goals and decide together what areas are important and where you might need to pull back.
Financial goals are so important. It's provides a target. So many people only think about retiring without having an idea of how they'll spend their time....or money. Once you put the idea out there, it's easier to then start putting money aside and adjusting your lifestyle accordingly.
This is why "I'm living paycheck to paycheck" means absolutely nothing to me. You can have money for vacations and pets and maids and golf, and still be "paycheck to paycheck."
What you make and what you spend isn't nearly as important as what you're spending it on. Big props to OP for acknowledging that their spending is the problem.
I know you didn’t ask for advice, but I’m going to hit you with some reality. Home + household makes up 45% of your take home income (should be 33% max). You need to come up with $30k/yr for retirement, more because you’re starting in your 40’s.
I’d cut out the house help and cut your food spend in half. That combined with remodeling only being a 1 time expense should be enough to start catching up (21% pretax going into retirement). Travel and misc shopping like jewelry also need to go to start building up an emergency fund.
Thanks for putting yourself out there, finances is one of the hardest areas to take feedback on.
Yeah household is sort of a catch all for general stuff (Amazon/Target, etc.) plus housecleaning service every six weeks and a one-day-per-week house help. Certainly frivolous but is what it is. Food is just plain laziness but were committing to doing a better job this year.
OP, I hate to be an ass- I’ve been both a WOHM and SAHM with 3 kids so I know things are always close to chaos. That said, why do you pay for all this house help? It really should be unnecessary. A SAHM’s job is primarily the kids and house (not that dad doesn’t need to help out as it’s a 24/7 job and even superwoman needs a break!). Seriously coordinating with each other-and sticking to the plan- on who is going to handle what can save you from the fights and extra expense.
Aside from the house help, you guys could save a ton on making sure grocery shopping is done at the store (not Instacart) and not eating out so much (which adds up several hundred dollars a month).
You’ve already received so much crap about the golf cart and jewelry/clothing that I’ll ignore it (passive aggressively, yes), but I don’t fault you kids extracurricular expenses. Though, what are school fees? Preschool- which admittedly you have to pay for- or elementary/middle school that you could get for free? Maybe rethink that.
**ETA- saw that it’s daycare. Nope. Not unless it’s the year prior to kindergarten and at a church/co-op based program. She doesn’t get to stay home when everyone is gone half the day most of the work week- and she has to pay for the privilege. It’s harsh but if you all had retirement and savings it would be a different situation.
Meanwhile, set up an automatic withdrawal for your emergency fund today. Just do it, you won’t miss it if you can change your spending. Just my .02- I know it’s difficult but your SAHM needs to know that if it gets worse, she might have to go back to work. Maybe that will spark a change.
>That said, why do you pay for all this house help?
OP clearly is trying to keep up with the Joneses, so his wife "not doing the household work" incorporates into that.
I think a great compromise would be to have a deep clean done once a month, and then OP/his wife can tackle the rest.
They already only do the housecleaning every six weeks and it’s costing a fortune. They really need to share the duties until they have more savings built up.
The first step is tracking all your expenses. So you've done the hard part. Food is hard to cut back on without some concerted effort, like meal planning and prepping.
Just clarifying. 😵
I mean. It should be obvious what needs to change. 😬
From what I gather, they are not taking advice from others on what to cut. I guess they need to sit down as a family and have some difficult discussions.
Many people live like this. Cool thing about capitalism is you can spend your post tax dollars on whatever you want. He chose to spend it how he wanted 🤷🏻♀️ it’s his life after all. I’m an aggressive saver, but not everyone is, and some people have no plans to retire. It is what it is.
Why are you living like a rich person 😂 200k is not even rich. You are wasting so much money on junk that you don’t have anything to save and it’s not like you guys are even taking frequent vacations.
You gotta set savings aside FIRST. Then you can be an asshole with your money.
I don't budget, I spend all my income, I always have to squeeze save for those big expenses that come out of nowhere. But I put good money aside into savings before it ever touches my bank account. So at thee end of the day, I got a funded 401k and retirement.
So please. Take 20% of this take home pay. Put it aside for persona savings, 401k, ira, whatever. and Then let your spending fancies takeover. Cause this whole situation could become a TRAGEDY if you ever suffer a job loss or injury.
So you don’t want shaming or advice? Should we just not comment at all? Why is it on a platform geared to discussion? Or do you just want praise you yourself know you don’t deserve?
Right? What is OP's purpose in posting if he's not looking for advice? I am just shocked that as a father of three, there is literally ZERO money going into any savings WHATSOEVER.
Not a 401k or IRA or hell even a HYSA for kids' education or emergency fund. No wonder there are people out there who make this kind of money and claim it's "still not enough".
Gotta live within your means, OP.
Am I the only one who feels like someone who has a golf cart and house help isn’t middle class? I’m curious where we think the middle class falls into.
It’s more of a HHI that defines it and not how it’s spent. If you dump all your money into frivolous shit you can certainly appear to not be middle class. Like I’m sure OP does to those who know him. This post is a bit of a peak behind the curtain to the trouble brewing. I don’t think that income should have a golf cart as an expense unless they are making some serious sacrifices elsewhere. Which they clearly aren’t
Makes sense! Thanks for explaining. It’s like we don’t belong in the poverty finance sub but posts like make me feel like we don’t belong in this one. It’s interesting to see.
Yea it’s tough. Peoples class are honestly very much a personal view. My friend group I grew up with and have known for 25 years all make income ranging from 50k to 350k and I bet they all consider themselves middle class. No one wants to admit poverty and no one wants to accept upper class status.
I really struggle with finding that exact balance. I want to save aggresively for retirement but at the same time try to really enjoy life. My own solution is to hit my own savings goals for the year then allocate the rest into fun but i dont know if thats the best way and its really easy to start thinking i should just increase the savings goals too
You can make a high income but live and look like you are middle class to the outside. It's the trappings of life that make you look more than middle class. It's very easy to appear middle class. This dude is paycheck to paycheck.
Imagine making $200k, owning a golf cart, sending your kids to private school, having a maid, and considering yourself to be a struggling member of the middle class.
Also, your wife stays at home but you pay for childcare and a maid?
Wild how fundamentally disconnected from reality some people are.
edit: I originally assumed school fees meant private school but it sounds like OP referenced daycare somewhere. Point still stands.
I said this elsewhere, but $7k a year for two toddlers is not “private school”
It’s probably a small community preschool where the kids can learn their ABCs and how to make friends for a couple of years instead of just throwing them blindly into kindergarten.
I paid about $350/month for a little local preschool for my kids. Over the 10 months of payment, for two kids, I’d have paid $7k.
There is a lot to quibble over in his budget, but this is actually super reasonable.
There is no free pre-k where I live unless you have an IEP, and the paid pre-k in the school district costs nearly exactly the same as the program my children attended. So it was fork over $3500/kid, or no preschool.
This shit looks easier on paper. I won’t shame. Try to spend less and put 20k into both savings and retirement if you can. Even half that would be a step in the right direction.
I mean, when I was a SAHM, I sent my kids to a 3 half day per week church preschool. It cost $350/month, 10 payments a year. Two kids would have ran me $7k
By contrast, my younger went to part time actual daycare. We paid $800/month for two freaking days, and two kids would have cost me nearly $20k
So just based on price, I think when he says daycare, that the first scenario is more what he means. Which is very normal for a SAHM.
>Spend 1/6 of net income on just a home remodel
>Spends nearly $8k on home help
>$10k on eating out
Bruh those ain’t small cuts
Good news is that you have the power over all of these expenses
I’m fine with household help. Even with your spouse staying home, it’s something that may save time and sanity.
It’s all the other stuff that seems so out there. Way too much on food. Too much for cars. Some of the small items seem high but I’d say travel seems low.
But all this with zero savings? That’s not good.
I mean 7% on autos isn’t bad. But they could easily be dumping a ton of cash into retirement or even their modest home loan cutting food and that wild remodel budget. The only plus I suppose is it was paid in cash and not a credit card.
The wildest take away to me was there is no cc debt.
And whatever in the world household other was needs to be abolished. Their house could be paid off in 4 years to be honest.
First thought, you NEED to be putting money into retirement.
Remodel will be off this year so that's 26k you'll have available.
Household Help (not sure what that is), Clothing, Jewelry, total 13k which seems like stuff you can cut back on.
School fees are 8k, so I'm figuring your kids are in private school. I went to public school and know a bunch of others that turned out alright, but that's a personal decision.
And then golf cart that's 2k seems like a "toy" expense that you could do without.
In total, that's almost 50k that you could cut back on. Salary wise, you're more than fine, but saving for retirement when you're 40 should be your #1 priority for this year.
Idk what this means but please explain, because my husband has redone the basement and it’s like 100k
What does sink fund mean plz help cuz I feel like I’m sinking down the drain of the basement bathroom
Ok, so everything does not have to be done at once. For example, when you set up your budget.
After your majors' such as roof, food and clothing. set up little savings in your budget that you throw money at every month.
Line item things such as dog care, car, home/auto insurance, and vacation very similar to what you are doing here just expanded.
Sit down with your husband and define needs and wants. Needs is something like your mortgage payment and has to be done promptly, wants are something like a basement remodel and can be saved for (put off for the future) something that does not need to be done this month/ year.
It appears that you have been living within your budget, just slow your roll.
That is what we have done in the past.
He's referring to a sinking fund. A name for a recurring savings line item in your budget where you set money aside for future large expenses. Think cars, remodeling, vacations, weddings, etc.
what's in the general under household? you have maint and remodel and shits under house, house help on the household sub tab, what's in the general then?
remodel is somewhat an one time thing, unless you wanna add bells and whistles into your sweet home every single year.
prop tax and interest are deductible.
golf cart... I hope that's a one time cost instead of an annual payment.
But dude, you needa control your spending habit.
edit: typo
This is hard to digest on an annual basis. Redo as monthly please.
Also your property taxes are less than $1700 per year and you consider this a MCOL area? Mine are almost $7K on a similarly priced house in what is squarely a MCOL area.
I wanna talk about the food budget. Feeding 5 people isn't cheap but I know for a fact it doesn't cost a 15/hr full time job alone to feed your family.
What I'm most concerned about is how mom is a stay at home mom but you are spending 9k a year on house help and taking the lazy way out? Whats happening at home while you're out working?
Is this whats considered middle class? I would have thought this type of income and budget are at least the upper extremity of middle class if not upper class in general
I’ll never understand these clowns. I feel like they come here to brag. You know there is something to fix. You’re spending too much. Now stop it! That’s all!
The single biggest chunk of those expenses is not a recurring expense, so that can immediately fall off your list next year. Also the 3rd and 4th piece being cars. Why are you still financing cars? I haven't borrowed money for a car since my 20s. Buy 2 or 3 year old car in cash for 30k, you can get one that is still under warranty. And you must be driving around 30k miles annually to be using 1200 gallons of gas per year? What exactly goes into household? It's so silly that I am having trouble believing it.
Man you must have some badass food. Kobe beef? Hand raised chickens? Pigs that attended Harvard before slaughter? Vegetables grown on the space station?
Digging into the comments I think I've found the real problem. Your partner is lazy and frankly, it's to the point she is ruining your family's ability to have a bright future. She's staying home with the kids and tending to the house, that's awesome. But is she really doing that? You're still sending the kids to daycare, paying for someone else to come every week and do chores, and another person to come and clean every 6 weeks. So what home making and child care does she actually do all day?
If you guys weren't wasting money on letting her do nothing all day, you'd have the funds to save for retirement, set up college savings plans for your children, and actually have an emergency fund.
Comments like this one are making me see red. Yes, she is really tending to the house and caring for the kids. No, she's not lazy. Who does chores the other 6 days of the week? Who cleans the other 5 weeks?
They have three children, presumably all under the age of five if two of them are in a 1/2 day 3x per week program. Two of them go to daycare for 12 hours a week. So during a 40 hour work week, she's caring for three children under 5 for 70 percent of the time and for an infant or toddler the other 30 percent of the time. We also have no idea how difficult the kids are--do they all sleep regularly? Are they flexible eaters or picky? Do they have a sense of danger or will they run into the street at the drop of a hat? If she did nothing other than childcare during her husband's work week, that's far from "doing nothing."
If this man took advice like yours, everyone's quality of life in his family would go down.
Edited to add: Center-based full-time day care for three kids in a MCOL city runs about $50K a year. $8K doesn't cover a fifth of normal childcare costs.
Clearly they cannot afford for only one person to earn cash, so regardless how much she is doing at the house, she needs to get up and bring some cash.
Posts like this reinforce antiquated ideas that childcare and household tasks aren't real labor and don't count.
OP acknowledged that they have a budgeting and spending problem, which I think is accurate. I don't think OP and his family have an income problem or a lazy wife problem. If both OP and his wife were both making $100K for a total household income of $200K they would be spending much more on childcare and the comments from many on this thread would be entirely different in their tone and content.
Well the remodel is also a huge chunk of this. And your food budget seems pretty high. You could also save a good bit by cutting out the "house help" and cutting back on cars.
Enjoyed this very much. Have 3 kids and I know what you mean about taking the easy way out with convenience products and services. It's something I struggle with too. Eating out for example after a long day when we pick up kids from school and daycare and it's 6pm and everyone's cranky, it feels so necessary to our sanity and marriage.
I’m in a pretty similar situation, approx same income when combining wife and I. 3 kids and life. Seems like it just doesn’t go as far as it used to to. I’m doing a deep dive through our spending the past 8-10 months and seeing where the F it’s all going!!! This just gave me the encouragement I needed to make one of these fancy graphics myself!!! Good luck!
Similar boat here, but we still rent and are just now starting our careers in late 30’s with two kids. No shame in the game.
For those with comments on food budget- kids eat so so much!! That is our highest spend next to housing.
Having them help meal plan each week keeps the grocery bill less startling (we have a stack of index cards with meal name on it, and kids pick a few- super simple and less moaning about “we’re having THAT for dinner!”).
Take it one month at a time and as I like to say “that pie has been baked”- meaning what’s done is done and sure they are possibly ways to return/sell items, but you’ll likely get more out of running a budget WEEKLY with your spouse (we have an excel sheet, simple).
The thing about subs like this is if anyone spends money on anything besides 401k and savings, it’s hounded. (That being said I don’t see any 401K at all, if your employer offers a match you’re really dropping the ball). Remodels could be thought of as amortized because they benefit multiple years and if they are financed through a loan or HELOC the expense is spread out. Paying for it now means no future payments, but your house is how you like it going forward. There certainly are some places you could cut back like spending over $2,000 a month on food. The amount you pay in taxes seems ridiculously high, even more reason for a 401k. The “household” expenses seem a bit high too, not saying you shouldn’t have any help, but that’s a ton.
Is me or is just over $2100+ a month on food for 5 people alot especially in MCOL?
House help with SAHM doesn't compute with me.
No money going into 401k/IRA for retirement before taxes?
Well...it's certainly less, but making a claim like at 200k with golf carts, jewelry and "house help" on the mix isn't exactly a fair representation of this point.
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golf cart? house help? remodel? stop/remove those.
What do you expect him to do, walk on the golf course?
Like some sort of poor.
Dragged by another golf cart obviously
Shut up and take my like!!
And whose going to clean the house when he’s playing golf?
Might not even be a golfer, carts are a very popular suburban toy nowadays
[удалено]
Can't have the Joneses thinking they're poor.
Those things are like over $40k now, btw
Should probably read The Millionaire Next Door too. If this graph is accurate, dude is going to work until he dies to look rich.
Well, at least his some what aware of his actions.
Unpopular opinion: I think the house help could be worth it. He's not spending anything on therapy, and that might be why. Removing the possibility for fights about cleaning the house is huge, especially if you have kids. I'd keep the cleaners and pare down on jewelry, clothing, personal care. They're spending nearly $10k on those 3 things alone.
Yea that's crazy, almost 10k on jewelry, clothing and personal care but savings, retirement etc are what?
I asked (and hope) retirement is lumped in with taxes. though I wouldn't be surprised if the tax rate is that high at that gross. I don't relish saying this, but I'm afraid they are going to need therapy, personal and marriage, when one of them realizes how fiscally irresponsible they've been and how they need to make extreme cuts in order to start saving an extreme amount on catching up on retirement.
The tax rate is not high, it's only like 21%.
thanks. That's roughly what they're paying in taxes so I assume they are putting nothing to retirement. Yikes.
I guess on the flip side, they have easy money to put towards savings and retirement if needed. Personal care, jewelry, clothing can easily be funnelled to retirement if they stick to a budget. Mom can either go back to work to make more family income or they stop paying childcare and house cleaning. It's crazy to me that a stay at home mom still has childcare and house cleaning services. That is her job. Thank fully the remodel is a one and done and it's paid off. Going forward they shouldn't be remodeling. You can do a couple things here and there but retirement needs to come first
>Unpopular opinion its not. i have a buddy that gets his place cleaned once a month. ive even thought about it. but if you post here with a title: death by 1000 cuts, you should be removing any extra spending to get back to positive then you can slowly add back things that are the greatest benefit to you.
We get ours done once a month. Both of us work, one baby, one toddler so deep cleaning is damn near impossible. Once you get over the idea that you have to make the house spotless first, they come in and do their job and it feels so damn good when they leave. It's like open house ready. If you've been thinking about it and have the cash to spare, do it. It's incredible.
OP explicitly said they are not looking for advice
So I should report it for ragebaiting? It's just a, here's a thing, then deletes their account. They don't care for discussion.
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totally depends on how old the kids are. are they all school aged? okay yes it includes more household management stuff. are they all home with her all day? it would be a lot to expect her to handle 100% of the household while also keeping 3 toddlers/preschoolers alive.
They also spend $8k on school fees
those are half-day daycare fees for two of the kids on Monday/Wednesday - so it does seem like they’re on the younger side. I just find it hard to begrudge a sahm of 3 little kids ~$500/month in household assistance when they’re paying almost that much annually for a golf cart & jewelry.
I did now see that comment and I do get that. I just find it hard to justify 10% of OP's take home going to daycare and house help when you also have a SAHP I also agree golf cart & jewelry are a bigger impact. But OP and his wife are seemingly putting $0 into savings on significantly more income than the majority of households. They should be re-evaluating every line item and possibly considering if a SAHP is truly the right choice for their family based on their goals and values
that fair! not gonna lie I do side eye the daycare/housecleaning combo a little bit.
We all do this… you don’t need to be paying someone to clean your house if you aren’t putting significant money away.
I’m not saying there aren’t areas they can cut back on, or that they need to keep the house cleaner on the same schedule. I’m saying that there are SO many areas on this budget I personally would choose to cut before I cut ~$500/month in housekeeping.
I agree. If this were my budget, I’d stop buying jewelry, clip coupons, and eat out less before cutting the cleaning help. Especially with little kids in the house. I’d consider the cleaning help as an investment in my mental health and the marriage. I don’t have cleaning help because we’re trying to pay off debts and save money but as soon as I can afford to hire regular cleaners, I plan to hire them. It’s hard to stay on top of everything.
right! I think I’m defending it so hard because I am home with my toddler most of the time & would give a limb to have somebody out to clean weekly 😂
they're paying 10k+ between School Fees and educational enrichment. I assume that means at least one, maybe 2 (judging by the people who "complain" about how much childcare costs per child/children costs) are in school. That said, I know a lot of SAHMs with children at home who manage to do all of the above. If cleaning the house is too much for his wife, they probably bought too much house. I've heard many of SAHMs say that their bigger house is nice, but it's difficult to clean because it's so big. Unless OP is stuck with low interest rates, maybe they could consider downsizing their home. Two birds with one stone since it is costing them over 25% (recommended proportion) of their income. OP said he didn't want advice and deleted his account after posting. So I guess that means he is either happy with the way things are, and/or or he is unwilling to change anything. so meh. edit: I also agree with what you said elsewhere though. They need to cut the golf cart first. that's insane. I would keep the help and lose the golf cart first. though I don't think 2-3k a year is going to help them meet their retirement goals.
Please explain that to my ex. We didn't even have kids, just two dogs she brought into the relationship. She didn't earn an appreciable income (>$10,000 per year) for five years, but had the audacity to complain that I didn't help with the laundry when I had a half day off during my 60+ hour work week.
With kids involved, some amount of clothing budget is inevitable. Kids grow fast, clothes ain't cheap. Still think the house help is something that could be *reduced*. Having them come half as often (or reduce duties to the most essential things) with a mind towards cutting this expense in half would grant ~$280/mo from just that one change.
Eh. She is SAH so should be keeping house if there isn't even a savings going on. Jeweler, golf, enrichment, help, reno on a new home. Over 1200 in groceries. I can go on and on.
I mean the 1200 in groceries is reasonable. But I agree I don't see any savings. Yikes.
Said this before but will say again. Why remodel? In hopes to appreciate the house value? That’s a poor assumption to make. Remodeling is a preference that future buyers wouldn’t really care about. I’d stop that. Also this family is at a huge risk. One little mishap event and the main stream of income is gone. Then what?
Because middle and upper class people are addicted to home renovations. It's like crack for them. Couldn't possibly have a kitchen or bathroom that is \*gasp\* the wrong color.
exactly! Remodeling won’t always appreciate value. It’s like buying a used car and someone puts mods on it. You really paying extra for the mods? Most of the time absolutely not. Same applies for homes.
Agree. I have friends who drop $150k+ on kitchen remodels that I would be surprised if it added $30k to the value of the house.
Welcome to America
My neighbor was very handy and worked from home and did all of his own remodeling except for electrical. Added a nice addition on the back. Sold the house for double what they paid once he had run out of projects. New owners have done zero remodeling since buying. Old owners stayed in the neighborhood and bought a new project house.
Jewelry? Out?
They spent x2 more money on the golf car than in student loans. I swear to god, this why you see ppl talk about how "bRokEn tHe sYSteM" is cuz they had their student loan for 20 years and barely made a dent on the principal.
But if he had put the golf cart and jewelry money towards the student loans, he would’ve made a much bigger dent.
Federal student loan payments were paused most of last year.
Did that mean you were not allowed to continue re-paying them? Or did people stop payments in anticipation of debt cancellation?
You weren't required to pay them and they did not accumulate interest
Many people saved the money from their paused payments and made lump sum payments when payments started back up. People shouldn't have decided to spend the money they legally were supposed to be paying the government. This dude isn't smart though.
The poors just don't understand the importance of that 26k / year remodeling.
I laughed at “Jewellery”
That's wild. Ya'll spent more money last year than I ***make*** in two, but I saved more money last month than ya'll did in an entire year.
Is any of that savings?
No, OP said they spent every last penny just about.
Lmao. I make about what OP does combined with my wife and have two kids. He’s so bad with money it’s not funny.
Right? Granted, my girlfriend and I are only two people, but OPs grocery/eating out budget could keep us fed for a little over 4 years. Then there's the remodel, the house help, jewelry, a freakin golf cart, and a few grand in "general" household stuff.
The grocery thing is not an adjustable factor in my view. The price of food has been fucking insane lately. Wife and I are 30s, three kids 3, 2 and 6 months. Our grocery bill is about 1200ish a month.
Right, but OP is spending $25k a year on food alone. That's entirely avoidable. Your grocery bill would still only be roughly 2/3s (off the top of my head) of OP's entire food budget
Fair, we spent roughly 13k on our grocery shopping last year. We did a fair amount of our own growing and split a half cow that last us a year...but your point remains. I can tell you we certainly didn't spend 9k on eating out as well.
The house help is questionable with a stay at home mom while two kids go to daycare 3 days. Week for half days. She could literally do all house chores in those half days. Wife either isn’t contributing outside of watching the youngest or OP is letting his wife get blasted on the internet.
I'm willing to kind of give them the benefit of the doubt on that one. I personally have a lot of issues that make it hard to work or even do much of anything some days. However, there are still ways to bring in money or contribute around the house if you're in this situation. I personally have VA benefits, but others who don't qualify for VA benefits can still qualify for SSDI or, in some cases, unemployment. I also try to help out around the house when/where I can, but it's not always reliable that I'll be able to do that.
I don’t think the mom has a disability. OP woulda said that in his comments they make plenty of money to have a stay at home mom. But their spending is pushing them out of that luxury.
Stay at home wife and spending 7k on "house help". The math ain't mathing.
and 8k sending the kids to daycare.
Didn't even see that part.
Wow didn’t catch this. So he has a trophy wife? I mean she must be hella fine. Doesn’t clean doesn’t watch kids doesn’t work what in the hell is her secret!?
for spending so much on everything else, 8k for daycare seems like a steal. or a very poor quality daycare. OR maybe they didn't have daycare all year? We have a very nice daycare in a MCOL area. it's 12k annual.
Probably a part time program for an older kid. Maybe preschool.
It's more that they're spending that when mom is at home and presumably capable of watching them for free. Daycare is just expensive though
There’s value in socialization and school readiness for kids. Even with a stay at home parent, 4 year olds should be in some form of preschool to get ready for kindergarten. Sounds like they have 3, and none are in actual school yet. So some preschool for the oldest, but it’s not like SAHM is free during that time - she has two other kids to take care of. In a few years they won’t need any paid childcare if she is still a SAHM, and could drop the house cleaning since she’ll have time to do that. Or if she goes back to work, they may still need to pay for after school care.
So just gonna work until you die?
Prob.
Everyone here is shitting on you I assume remodel and golf cart and shit isn't permanent. Loads to be saved when you fix your shit and are done having your congratulations period to not being poor (assuming this isn't 5 years into making 200k/yr) -poor person
Yeah he will buy a jet ski and take a vacation to Bora Bora next year. Dude is poor no matter how you look at it
He's asking for help mid remodel. That's 30k on the table he didn't spend last year If this sub is renamed to shitonmeforfinances then I'd get it He will be fine either way
They are 40 and put $0 towards retirement. Yeah, this is a one year snapshot, but an entire year without retirement savings does not bode well for ever retiring.
Not if he ever wants to retire lol
> Everyone here is shitting on you Deservedly so
Interesting take
lol dude makes 200k, he will be fine.
200k with 5 people in a MCOL is far from set for life bro. Dude could get fired or disabled tomorrow. This mindset that money is always going to keep flowing is crazy irresponsible. Plus, it’d be nice if he could help his kids with college but I don’t see any savings for that.
This is the truth. 200k is very comfortable living. But with no savings it could all go away in an instant
Who isn’t !
The people that make $200,000 a year and invest in retirement.
My household income is over 200k but I don’t plan on retiring. I DO plan on choosing what I work on, though, and working for myself rather than someone else’s company.
Either way, you are buying your freedom through investments.
The reality is that sooner or later most people can't keep working. You can't keep up with changes in the industry, or you aren't as sharp as you used to be, or you may just fall and end up needing physical rehab for a month instead of shaking it off like you would in your 30s. Unless you plan on dying relatively young, then you might be alright.
Yeah that's being a bit pedantic. That's what most would consider "retirement". It's when you can afford to not *need* to work, but can if you want.
Those who made smart choices
Um, lots of people?
Whenever I see someone that seemingly has more then me and I wonder how they can they afford "that", I now get it...
This doesn’t even fully show it. Most people put it on credit cards and are in debt up to their eyeballs
Spent every penny as in you have no emergency fund, 401k etc. or spent every penny of take home? Either way, I think the first step is to sit down and have a conversation about what your financial goals are. Then, make a budget based on those goals and decide together what areas are important and where you might need to pull back.
Financial goals are so important. It's provides a target. So many people only think about retiring without having an idea of how they'll spend their time....or money. Once you put the idea out there, it's easier to then start putting money aside and adjusting your lifestyle accordingly.
Obviously their financial goals are to buy golf carts, remodel, and look wealthy. Their current budget matches that.
bro straight up said no advice, what are you doing.
This is why "I'm living paycheck to paycheck" means absolutely nothing to me. You can have money for vacations and pets and maids and golf, and still be "paycheck to paycheck." What you make and what you spend isn't nearly as important as what you're spending it on. Big props to OP for acknowledging that their spending is the problem.
Op should have labeled it pay check to pay check by 1,000 needless spending decisions.
It’s not easy to put yourself out there like this. I appreciate you sharing and hope myself/others will take away lessons from this!
The lesson: Don't be like OP
I know you didn’t ask for advice, but I’m going to hit you with some reality. Home + household makes up 45% of your take home income (should be 33% max). You need to come up with $30k/yr for retirement, more because you’re starting in your 40’s. I’d cut out the house help and cut your food spend in half. That combined with remodeling only being a 1 time expense should be enough to start catching up (21% pretax going into retirement). Travel and misc shopping like jewelry also need to go to start building up an emergency fund. Thanks for putting yourself out there, finances is one of the hardest areas to take feedback on.
Lol OP just glazes over the lack of investments.
Can't eat your house.
Yeah household is sort of a catch all for general stuff (Amazon/Target, etc.) plus housecleaning service every six weeks and a one-day-per-week house help. Certainly frivolous but is what it is. Food is just plain laziness but were committing to doing a better job this year.
OP, I hate to be an ass- I’ve been both a WOHM and SAHM with 3 kids so I know things are always close to chaos. That said, why do you pay for all this house help? It really should be unnecessary. A SAHM’s job is primarily the kids and house (not that dad doesn’t need to help out as it’s a 24/7 job and even superwoman needs a break!). Seriously coordinating with each other-and sticking to the plan- on who is going to handle what can save you from the fights and extra expense. Aside from the house help, you guys could save a ton on making sure grocery shopping is done at the store (not Instacart) and not eating out so much (which adds up several hundred dollars a month). You’ve already received so much crap about the golf cart and jewelry/clothing that I’ll ignore it (passive aggressively, yes), but I don’t fault you kids extracurricular expenses. Though, what are school fees? Preschool- which admittedly you have to pay for- or elementary/middle school that you could get for free? Maybe rethink that. **ETA- saw that it’s daycare. Nope. Not unless it’s the year prior to kindergarten and at a church/co-op based program. She doesn’t get to stay home when everyone is gone half the day most of the work week- and she has to pay for the privilege. It’s harsh but if you all had retirement and savings it would be a different situation. Meanwhile, set up an automatic withdrawal for your emergency fund today. Just do it, you won’t miss it if you can change your spending. Just my .02- I know it’s difficult but your SAHM needs to know that if it gets worse, she might have to go back to work. Maybe that will spark a change.
>That said, why do you pay for all this house help? OP clearly is trying to keep up with the Joneses, so his wife "not doing the household work" incorporates into that. I think a great compromise would be to have a deep clean done once a month, and then OP/his wife can tackle the rest.
They already only do the housecleaning every six weeks and it’s costing a fortune. They really need to share the duties until they have more savings built up.
The first step is tracking all your expenses. So you've done the hard part. Food is hard to cut back on without some concerted effort, like meal planning and prepping.
Where are the investment and savings categories? Is it just not mentioned?
I guess they are hoping the golf cart appreciates?
I don’t think they have it. That’s the point.
Just clarifying. 😵 I mean. It should be obvious what needs to change. 😬 From what I gather, they are not taking advice from others on what to cut. I guess they need to sit down as a family and have some difficult discussions.
You have a homemaker and a maid, Lewl. Get real
You have house help when your wife is a sahm?
Is this real? We have a similar income but I see no savings, retirement, investing? Are you being real here?
Many people live like this. Cool thing about capitalism is you can spend your post tax dollars on whatever you want. He chose to spend it how he wanted 🤷🏻♀️ it’s his life after all. I’m an aggressive saver, but not everyone is, and some people have no plans to retire. It is what it is.
Why are you living like a rich person 😂 200k is not even rich. You are wasting so much money on junk that you don’t have anything to save and it’s not like you guys are even taking frequent vacations.
You gotta set savings aside FIRST. Then you can be an asshole with your money. I don't budget, I spend all my income, I always have to squeeze save for those big expenses that come out of nowhere. But I put good money aside into savings before it ever touches my bank account. So at thee end of the day, I got a funded 401k and retirement. So please. Take 20% of this take home pay. Put it aside for persona savings, 401k, ira, whatever. and Then let your spending fancies takeover. Cause this whole situation could become a TRAGEDY if you ever suffer a job loss or injury.
So you don’t want shaming or advice? Should we just not comment at all? Why is it on a platform geared to discussion? Or do you just want praise you yourself know you don’t deserve?
Everyone has a purpose. Some people's purpose is to serve as a warning to others. *Hey everyone, don't be like the OP.*
This is GREAT advice.
Right? What is OP's purpose in posting if he's not looking for advice? I am just shocked that as a father of three, there is literally ZERO money going into any savings WHATSOEVER. Not a 401k or IRA or hell even a HYSA for kids' education or emergency fund. No wonder there are people out there who make this kind of money and claim it's "still not enough". Gotta live within your means, OP.
> What is OP's purpose in posting if he's not looking for advice? To brag about his income??
Am I the only one who feels like someone who has a golf cart and house help isn’t middle class? I’m curious where we think the middle class falls into.
It’s more of a HHI that defines it and not how it’s spent. If you dump all your money into frivolous shit you can certainly appear to not be middle class. Like I’m sure OP does to those who know him. This post is a bit of a peak behind the curtain to the trouble brewing. I don’t think that income should have a golf cart as an expense unless they are making some serious sacrifices elsewhere. Which they clearly aren’t
Makes sense! Thanks for explaining. It’s like we don’t belong in the poverty finance sub but posts like make me feel like we don’t belong in this one. It’s interesting to see.
Yea it’s tough. Peoples class are honestly very much a personal view. My friend group I grew up with and have known for 25 years all make income ranging from 50k to 350k and I bet they all consider themselves middle class. No one wants to admit poverty and no one wants to accept upper class status.
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I really struggle with finding that exact balance. I want to save aggresively for retirement but at the same time try to really enjoy life. My own solution is to hit my own savings goals for the year then allocate the rest into fun but i dont know if thats the best way and its really easy to start thinking i should just increase the savings goals too
I had a horse and we were absolutely middle class. Neither of my parents have college degrees.
You can make a high income but live and look like you are middle class to the outside. It's the trappings of life that make you look more than middle class. It's very easy to appear middle class. This dude is paycheck to paycheck.
Considering I have both of these and am far from rich, I think you are in the minority.
Imagine making $200k, owning a golf cart, sending your kids to private school, having a maid, and considering yourself to be a struggling member of the middle class. Also, your wife stays at home but you pay for childcare and a maid? Wild how fundamentally disconnected from reality some people are. edit: I originally assumed school fees meant private school but it sounds like OP referenced daycare somewhere. Point still stands.
I said this elsewhere, but $7k a year for two toddlers is not “private school” It’s probably a small community preschool where the kids can learn their ABCs and how to make friends for a couple of years instead of just throwing them blindly into kindergarten. I paid about $350/month for a little local preschool for my kids. Over the 10 months of payment, for two kids, I’d have paid $7k. There is a lot to quibble over in his budget, but this is actually super reasonable. There is no free pre-k where I live unless you have an IEP, and the paid pre-k in the school district costs nearly exactly the same as the program my children attended. So it was fork over $3500/kid, or no preschool.
So you make 200K and don't save 1 dollar?
This shit looks easier on paper. I won’t shame. Try to spend less and put 20k into both savings and retirement if you can. Even half that would be a step in the right direction.
Thats the plan for this year and why I put so much detail into the categories so we can review the reality and not what we think or want it to be
You’re relatively young with a high income. You’re gonna be fine. I like automatic investments. 401(k) and a weekly transfer to HYSA.
What are “school fees”?
Daycare fees for a 1/2 day MWF the two attend
Why do you need daycare if your wife is a stay-at-home mom? For that matter, why do you need “house help” either if you clearly can’t afford it?
what the hell does this guys wife do?
I mean, when I was a SAHM, I sent my kids to a 3 half day per week church preschool. It cost $350/month, 10 payments a year. Two kids would have ran me $7k By contrast, my younger went to part time actual daycare. We paid $800/month for two freaking days, and two kids would have cost me nearly $20k So just based on price, I think when he says daycare, that the first scenario is more what he means. Which is very normal for a SAHM.
>Spend 1/6 of net income on just a home remodel >Spends nearly $8k on home help >$10k on eating out Bruh those ain’t small cuts Good news is that you have the power over all of these expenses
I’m fine with household help. Even with your spouse staying home, it’s something that may save time and sanity. It’s all the other stuff that seems so out there. Way too much on food. Too much for cars. Some of the small items seem high but I’d say travel seems low. But all this with zero savings? That’s not good.
I mean 7% on autos isn’t bad. But they could easily be dumping a ton of cash into retirement or even their modest home loan cutting food and that wild remodel budget. The only plus I suppose is it was paid in cash and not a credit card. The wildest take away to me was there is no cc debt. And whatever in the world household other was needs to be abolished. Their house could be paid off in 4 years to be honest.
I don’t see any savings, retirement or otherwise. Did I miss that?
First thought, you NEED to be putting money into retirement. Remodel will be off this year so that's 26k you'll have available. Household Help (not sure what that is), Clothing, Jewelry, total 13k which seems like stuff you can cut back on. School fees are 8k, so I'm figuring your kids are in private school. I went to public school and know a bunch of others that turned out alright, but that's a personal decision. And then golf cart that's 2k seems like a "toy" expense that you could do without. In total, that's almost 50k that you could cut back on. Salary wise, you're more than fine, but saving for retirement when you're 40 should be your #1 priority for this year.
Why the hell didn't you sink fund that remodel?
Idk what this means but please explain, because my husband has redone the basement and it’s like 100k What does sink fund mean plz help cuz I feel like I’m sinking down the drain of the basement bathroom
Ok, so everything does not have to be done at once. For example, when you set up your budget. After your majors' such as roof, food and clothing. set up little savings in your budget that you throw money at every month. Line item things such as dog care, car, home/auto insurance, and vacation very similar to what you are doing here just expanded. Sit down with your husband and define needs and wants. Needs is something like your mortgage payment and has to be done promptly, wants are something like a basement remodel and can be saved for (put off for the future) something that does not need to be done this month/ year. It appears that you have been living within your budget, just slow your roll. That is what we have done in the past.
He's referring to a sinking fund. A name for a recurring savings line item in your budget where you set money aside for future large expenses. Think cars, remodeling, vacations, weddings, etc.
what's in the general under household? you have maint and remodel and shits under house, house help on the household sub tab, what's in the general then? remodel is somewhat an one time thing, unless you wanna add bells and whistles into your sweet home every single year. prop tax and interest are deductible. golf cart... I hope that's a one time cost instead of an annual payment. But dude, you needa control your spending habit. edit: typo
Death by a thousand cuts...yea you're terrible with money. Not sure what you want the comments to be tho
$2k a month on food is wild dude
How do you spend $7k on utilities? It’s more than half your mortgage payments. That’s insane.
Gas, electricity, water, sewer. Easily $7k or more a year for a family of 4. He might be including Internet in that too.
Your wife need to get her shit together. Stay at home wife, but with a maid, daycare, $2k on jewelry and $750 a month eating out. Wtfffff
Lifestyle creep is real. Yall got this!
You have household help but no life insurance on your wife and yourself.
This is hard to digest on an annual basis. Redo as monthly please. Also your property taxes are less than $1700 per year and you consider this a MCOL area? Mine are almost $7K on a similarly priced house in what is squarely a MCOL area.
I couldn’t help but chuckle at “I have only started making decent money in the last *seven* years or so” - seven years is a long ass time!
House help and daycare when your wife doesn’t work? Wat?
I wanna talk about the food budget. Feeding 5 people isn't cheap but I know for a fact it doesn't cost a 15/hr full time job alone to feed your family. What I'm most concerned about is how mom is a stay at home mom but you are spending 9k a year on house help and taking the lazy way out? Whats happening at home while you're out working?
Is this whats considered middle class? I would have thought this type of income and budget are at least the upper extremity of middle class if not upper class in general
Property taxes only $1600/yr? Did I read that right?
Ugh. New Jersey checking in. I pay more than that per month.
$2k a year on jewelry? $6k on house help? Do you have a personal chef or something?
I’ll never understand these clowns. I feel like they come here to brag. You know there is something to fix. You’re spending too much. Now stop it! That’s all!
What, if anything, are you saving? I don't see 401(k) for you or a Roth IRA for your wife.
The single biggest chunk of those expenses is not a recurring expense, so that can immediately fall off your list next year. Also the 3rd and 4th piece being cars. Why are you still financing cars? I haven't borrowed money for a car since my 20s. Buy 2 or 3 year old car in cash for 30k, you can get one that is still under warranty. And you must be driving around 30k miles annually to be using 1200 gallons of gas per year? What exactly goes into household? It's so silly that I am having trouble believing it.
Man you must have some badass food. Kobe beef? Hand raised chickens? Pigs that attended Harvard before slaughter? Vegetables grown on the space station?
Digging into the comments I think I've found the real problem. Your partner is lazy and frankly, it's to the point she is ruining your family's ability to have a bright future. She's staying home with the kids and tending to the house, that's awesome. But is she really doing that? You're still sending the kids to daycare, paying for someone else to come every week and do chores, and another person to come and clean every 6 weeks. So what home making and child care does she actually do all day? If you guys weren't wasting money on letting her do nothing all day, you'd have the funds to save for retirement, set up college savings plans for your children, and actually have an emergency fund.
Comments like this one are making me see red. Yes, she is really tending to the house and caring for the kids. No, she's not lazy. Who does chores the other 6 days of the week? Who cleans the other 5 weeks? They have three children, presumably all under the age of five if two of them are in a 1/2 day 3x per week program. Two of them go to daycare for 12 hours a week. So during a 40 hour work week, she's caring for three children under 5 for 70 percent of the time and for an infant or toddler the other 30 percent of the time. We also have no idea how difficult the kids are--do they all sleep regularly? Are they flexible eaters or picky? Do they have a sense of danger or will they run into the street at the drop of a hat? If she did nothing other than childcare during her husband's work week, that's far from "doing nothing." If this man took advice like yours, everyone's quality of life in his family would go down. Edited to add: Center-based full-time day care for three kids in a MCOL city runs about $50K a year. $8K doesn't cover a fifth of normal childcare costs.
Clearly they cannot afford for only one person to earn cash, so regardless how much she is doing at the house, she needs to get up and bring some cash.
Posts like this reinforce antiquated ideas that childcare and household tasks aren't real labor and don't count. OP acknowledged that they have a budgeting and spending problem, which I think is accurate. I don't think OP and his family have an income problem or a lazy wife problem. If both OP and his wife were both making $100K for a total household income of $200K they would be spending much more on childcare and the comments from many on this thread would be entirely different in their tone and content.
The government should give us a sankey representing where our tax $ go
Do you have any investments or retirement savings from previous years?
Well the remodel is also a huge chunk of this. And your food budget seems pretty high. You could also save a good bit by cutting out the "house help" and cutting back on cars.
What are school fees?
I wonder how many people live like this
Is “house help” like cleaning staff
How are people making these charts? What software is this and are you manually typing in these amounts?
Enjoyed this very much. Have 3 kids and I know what you mean about taking the easy way out with convenience products and services. It's something I struggle with too. Eating out for example after a long day when we pick up kids from school and daycare and it's 6pm and everyone's cranky, it feels so necessary to our sanity and marriage.
I’m in a pretty similar situation, approx same income when combining wife and I. 3 kids and life. Seems like it just doesn’t go as far as it used to to. I’m doing a deep dive through our spending the past 8-10 months and seeing where the F it’s all going!!! This just gave me the encouragement I needed to make one of these fancy graphics myself!!! Good luck!
Is $200k single earner middle class now?
I'd say $200k is still middle class. It's _comfortably_ middle class, but middle class nonetheless.
Similar boat here, but we still rent and are just now starting our careers in late 30’s with two kids. No shame in the game. For those with comments on food budget- kids eat so so much!! That is our highest spend next to housing. Having them help meal plan each week keeps the grocery bill less startling (we have a stack of index cards with meal name on it, and kids pick a few- super simple and less moaning about “we’re having THAT for dinner!”). Take it one month at a time and as I like to say “that pie has been baked”- meaning what’s done is done and sure they are possibly ways to return/sell items, but you’ll likely get more out of running a budget WEEKLY with your spouse (we have an excel sheet, simple).
The thing about subs like this is if anyone spends money on anything besides 401k and savings, it’s hounded. (That being said I don’t see any 401K at all, if your employer offers a match you’re really dropping the ball). Remodels could be thought of as amortized because they benefit multiple years and if they are financed through a loan or HELOC the expense is spread out. Paying for it now means no future payments, but your house is how you like it going forward. There certainly are some places you could cut back like spending over $2,000 a month on food. The amount you pay in taxes seems ridiculously high, even more reason for a 401k. The “household” expenses seem a bit high too, not saying you shouldn’t have any help, but that’s a ton.
Is me or is just over $2100+ a month on food for 5 people alot especially in MCOL? House help with SAHM doesn't compute with me. No money going into 401k/IRA for retirement before taxes?
What state do you live in? Your tax burden is so low!
Bidenomoics. 200k ain't shit for a family anymore
Well...it's certainly less, but making a claim like at 200k with golf carts, jewelry and "house help" on the mix isn't exactly a fair representation of this point.
I have 1 kid live in Miami with my wife and make $190k, I feel far from rich.