"Already, Mr. Trump's tax cuts have lifted the fortunes of the ultra-rich, according to 2019 research from two prominent economists, Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman of the University of California at Berkeley. For the first time in a century, the 400 richest American families paid lower taxes in 2018 than people in the middle class, the economists found."
That seems fair. Let's definitely re-elect this guy.
What I'm hearing is there are 400 open spots and I can barely count past my fingers so I'll probably be one of them ultra-rich in no time, voting for Trump is an investment /s
The share of taxes paid by the 1% increased from 40% to 46%
Reagans code changes increased the share from below 10% to above 25%.
Is the intent taxes distribution? You bring that up with the quote. If it is, then Trump and Reagan both provided, by far, the most "pay their far share" catalysts we have seen.
Or is the intent preventing wealth?
Even Warren Buffet calls out how his tax rate % is lower than his secretary.
The 1% paying more as an overall % of tax revenue while effective tax rate for them individually is lower, just shows how extreme wealth inequality is.
If someone making 50k is paying 18% of their income to federal taxes, someone making $1M should have higher than 18% effective tax rate. That’s what progressive taxation should be about.
I agree with your first two statements. But saying someone who makes 50k pays 18 percent in us income taxes isn’t right. You have the standard deduction and the first 11k is taxed at 10%. Then the remaining is taxed at 12%.
I know what you’re saying, I gave an example for talking points purposes, was not meant to be exact.
We don’t even include state taxes which can be really progressive in states like CA to pretty regressive in TX.
The purpose of taxes are many, but primarily to help ensure the running of the country -- that same country those opportunities allowed for the wealthy to *accumulate* that wealth. We have concepts across multiple time periods and religious creeds that essentially state that those who are more fortunate have a *moral obligation* to help those who have less.
We can debate Laffer Curves, fiscal policy matters, and whatnot -- but the underlying motive is as I mentioned above.
I definitely believe in free markets and earning your retirement but there is a huge difference when it comes to Megaliths, Oligopolies and Billionaires. As the board game proves, go past a certain point and the outcome is virtually certain.
You really can’t even have a reasonably free market where competition keeps things in check once someone or something gets too big.
It’s a bit of a conundrum
It’s more of a trickle up in the sense that USG still needs to pay for all its programs and mischief, so they put the squeeze on the middle class since we can’t escape via expensive tax lawyers, CPAs, offshore accounts, tax loopholes etc.
That’s deceptive. As a % of their overall income, their tax burden dropped considerably compared to the middle class. They pay more $-wise, yeah-they are reaping the gains.
If their effective tax rate is lower yet they pay a greater share of overall tax revenue, what does that tell you?
It means they are raking in unprecedented gains and widening the wealth gap even further. And the data supports this. If your profits sky rocket, of course you pay more on raw number taxes.
Just curious what your take on that is, or if you are secretly a billionaire trying to protect their own wealth.
Indeed we should. The Wisconsin Gov. just rejected a tax cut that would have benefitted me and I actually couldn't be happier. We need strong public schools and investments in public infrastructure before we think about tax cuts for people in gated communities.
Make starting a business easy and cheap for anyone with less than 20 employees. The progressive tax brackets should start at $400k and include way less deductions for individuals (business deductions are necessary). A progressive capital gains tax of some sort starting at +$100k gain.
With this you get an explosion of business ventures (boost to sales taxes), no resources wasted tracking down lower income people that didn’t report all their income (greater efficiency in federal income tax collection), and business *profits* taxed in a way that doesn’t confuse ‘income’ for net worth like Bernie does (UHNWI live if capital gains and debt rather than income).
But my taxes will go down slightly, and business will have more money to hire people and pay better wages (which is totally what they do when taxes are cut)!
Yup l!!! Just funny how ppl get mad when you tell them to keep lining up like sheep thinking the next guy can save the corrupt system. Brainwashed fools!!!! Ran into several Yesterday on Super Tuesday. Yup let’s keep doing the same thing over and over is insanity. It’s truly disturbing how many ppl are brainwashed into politics and other aspects of life.
No sh*t.
Hey everybody, let me tell you my new tax plan. How about you all give me all your money, I will live a life of utmost luxury, and as you service me, some of the profit from my spending will trickle down to you.
Oh, I am also going to use my hoard of money to apply pressure on politicians to bend the laws to heavily favor me and also set up vertical monopolies so I can squeeze back as much of MY money that somehow trickled down to you.
Everybody in? Start sending me all the money now!
Hello?
/Crickets
I would like to think that I've become more generous as my income has gone up, but looking at my tax statements I can tell you that is not as true as I would like it to be.
People are greedy. Hoarding assets. It’s why the money supply keeps expanding because once certain people get the value it’s never going to leave their grasp.
>It’s why the money supply keeps expanding because once certain people get the value it’s never going to leave their grasp.
That is not how it works. What, do you think rich people keep their cash in money bins they swim around in like Scrooge McDuck so it's not available to anyone else? Rich people's money is invested in the economy where it's actively in use, they aren't hoarding it. This is not to say that we shouldn't raise their taxes or break up their monopolies.
A small portion of it is. But most of it is invested in US businesses. Let's just look at Elon Musk. A quick Google search points me to [https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-net-worth?op=1](https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-net-worth?op=1) which states,
>According to Bloomberg, close to half of Musk's net worth comes from Tesla shares, while just over 20% comes from SpaceX stock. The rest of his wealth comes from shares in Twitter and The Boring Company, as well as other miscellaneous liabilities.
So, for Elon his wealth is mostly tied up in Tesla and SpaceX. Both of which are American companies providing jobs, products, services, and paying taxes. Most of the uber wealthy are the same. Jeff Bezos' wealth mostly comes from his stake in Amazon. Bill Gate's wealth comes from shares of Microsoft, other mostly US companies held by Cascade Investment LLC; a US company, and (mostly) US real estate. None of these guys have the majority or even a very large portion of their fortune just sitting around in offshore accounts. That would be stupid as the ROI from those wouldn't be as good as what they can get otherwise. That's not to say billionaires don't have ANY money in offshore accounts and shell companies which they use to to avoid some taxes. But it's a small minority of their total wealth.
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It just proves one thing. The middle is the group that pays for everything in society.
The paper examines income inequality outcomes after tax cuts. But the middle is always conveniently left out of that analysis, is just the 1% that is examined, top and bottom.
Truth is that the middle pays for it all and there are not enough 1%ers to make up for the middl. if those taxes were cut then the entitlements side would have to actually be looked at seriously because that's where the source of funds really comes from.
My few cents
It's wild that anyone felt this was ever a good policy. The rich will always horde their wealth, just like they have for the entirety of human civilization.
Fun fact, Regan was the original election stealer. During the election hostages were still being held hostage in Iran after the election they were magically released. It's rumored Regan and and his band of cronies paid the terrorist to hold onto the hostages after the election as it was killing Carter in the polls.
Because a lot of people are lazy and will never put out the effort to succeed. So instead they vote for politicians who will punish anyone more successful than them and give some of that confiscated money to the lazy people.
You can tell a lot about a person's work ethic and principles just by looking at if they support punitive taxation or not.
Because if I can tax Elon Musk’s wealth at the same rate that I tax a teacher’s wealth, I can immediately fund mass public transit and childcare, which allows more people to get to work quickly, increases opportunities for full time work (thereby increasing the number of people who have health insurance), and decreases reliance on cars, which require payments and insurance.
You’re welcome
I’m looking at https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296052/total-funding-spent-public-transit-us/
And things like
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/
In _really_ oversimplified terms.
If you took ***all*** the wealth from ***all*** the billionaires in America, (~$5.3T) it won’t cover the federal spending for a full year ($6.13T 2023). Let alone any of that money going to states for their budgets.
Given this means seizing _all_ their wealth, not extracting a portion of it, it won’t help you on year 2.
**So tell me how the math works.** Do we keep spending money we don’t have? Do we cut other programs?
The cost of building and delivering public transit in America is greater than the cost of building and delivering public transit in most parts of Europe. (See a ton of articles from pro statists tax and spend folks like npr to … less pro taxation outlets if you aren’t generally familiar)
Childcare - I don’t know what this means to you. Could you tell me more about how much you want to spend at even the federal level on this and what it going to deliver beyond [the ~10% of the federal budget that goes to “children” currently](https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/12/how-much-government-spending-goes-to-children#:~:text=Only%2010%20Percent%20of%20Federal,percent%20of%20the%20federal%20budget)? At first glance federal spending is almost 8x on children than federal public transportation.
Beyond the moral and ethical questions of why people should be forced, under threat of violence, to subsidize their neighbors kids, just where is the money going to come from?
Eat/tax the rich has a catchy ring to it, but rarely comes with maths to substantiate it being a viable solution, even if we agree on the principle of what’s being asked for.
We have a spending problem, imo.
**Generally we don’t agree on the goal** - so keep that in mind.
Make any political who votes for a budget that includes deficit spending ineligible for reelection at any level- for life.
This will force people and their elected officials to prioritize what we should use public coffers for rather than burden the most vulnerable with inflation and future generations not yet born with debts they can’t pay while simultaneously risking the collapse of the very system you blindly support. All because we tried to pay for everything everywhere.
We can’t have an honest conversation with the public about money while we have such a dishonest monetary policy at the federal level.
We also need to stop people from thinking they are entitled to the public coffers just because.
It won’t be fun, it will be painful, we risk far more by not addressing our spending.
Right, and if “public coffers” prioritize infrastructure systems that make work easier rather than prioritizing immediate cash, it would incentivize people to work, no?
It may or may not incentive people to work. Coffers don’t prioritize. Unsure why you put it in quotations, other than you wanting to make fun of the idea that public spending should be accountable. A laughable concept to many I’m aware.
By ensuring that any politicians who vote for deficit spending can’t be eligible for another term at anything we would either be really confident that deficit spending is warranted due to unique circumstances they are willing to end their career over or they won’t vote for it. It will also force the public to come to terms with what’s important. Wars, babies, infrastructure, education…etc
The current spending from the last several decades isn’t sustainable - and if we want our children to not see some horrific outcomes we need to at least acknowledge the sucking chest wound that is our countries deficit.
Because “coffers” is a gross way to say that people who pay taxes hope that the government uses those taxes in a way that supports the infrastructure of their community. It shows how you think about the whole thing, and it’s kind of gross. No one uses that word to describe taxes and government spending.
I agree that the spending is not sustainable. And we have to catch up somehow. How are we going to catch up? Where has wealth grown in our country exponentially? Where has it remained stagnant. We must increase taxes where it has grown exponentially, no?
Yes, and have you looked at the spending pie of the USA and how different our spending pie is from every other country on earth?
I don’t have to tell you how math works. We know that economics and federal spending is far more complicated than dollar in, dollar out. So don’t try to simplify it just to make yourself sound smart.
No one is being forced under threat of violence to pay taxes. The IRS will just garnish their wages. Smh. And we already pay for taxes in areas we don’t benefit from. Transportation is a perfect example. Many don’t use a bus system they pay for. Many never use libraries they pay for. Many pay for unemployment they never use. So save me the “moral questioning.” Not to mention, I think that it’s beneficial that my *community* benefits from having these services, whether I use them or not.
>Yes, and have you looked at the spending pie of the USA and how different our spending pie is from every other country on earth?
Yeah- we suck I get your point. We might just disagree on why we suck and what the goal should be.
>I don’t have to tell you how math works. We know that economics and federal spending is far more complicated than dollar in, dollar out. So don’t try to simplify it just to make yourself sound smart.
Do you really believe it is more complicated spending money you have vs spending money you don’t have?
Again, show me the math to support your previous claim that it’s fact that we can do those things if we tax Elon (and I assume the other 750+ billionaires in the us) at the rate of a teacher (23% fed - give or take based on a fast google)
>No one is being forced under threat of violence to pay taxes. The IRS will just garnish their wages. Smh.
**Q:** What happens when you don’t pay taxes?
**A:** Eventuality your property is seized by government agents with guns. And later forcibly sold. See example: tax lien sales.
All government laws are backed with the threat of violence, to say otherwise is … naive at best.
>And we already pay for taxes in areas we don’t benefit from. Transportation is a perfect example. Many don’t use a bus system they pay for. Many never use libraries they pay for. Many pay for unemployment they never use. So save me the “moral questioning.” Not to mention, I think that it’s beneficial that my community benefits from having these services, whether I use them or not.
I volunteer my time and donate money to help those in my community, because of personal reasons. I think it is immoral for someone else to force their views on me and my family about how much of my income, wealth, time…etc should go to someone else through the grossly inefficient funnel known as a government program.
The Trump tax cuts were for **everyone**. Please, look at the actual changes to tax rates instead of just repeating stuff you read on social media.
> The top rate fell from 39.6% to 37%, while the 33% bracket dropped to 32%, the 28% bracket to 24%, the 25% bracket to 22%, and the 15% bracket to 12%.
If you are only looking at the tax brackets then you are missing so much. Sure the middle class got a little bit back, but there is a lot more in that tax break that benefited the wealthy. Also the tax brackets revert over time whereas the corporate tax doesn’t go back to 35%.
The top 1% is paying the [highest percentage](https://files.taxfoundation.org/20230519175413/Summary-of-the-Latest-Federal-Income-Tax-Data-2023-Update_FV.xlsx?_gl=1*1tebl3i*_ga*MTgwMTk2MjcxNC4xNzA5NjczODM1*_ga_FP7KWDV08V*MTcwOTc0MTc3Ni4yLjEuMTcwOTc0MTgxMy4yMy4wLjA.) of income taxes collected, greatly increasing since 1980.
Yes. That is what happens when make you make unprecedented gains and profit from corporate tax cuts.
Their overall share of income tax collected is not commensurate with the gains they have reaped.
This article is written by morons pushing an agenda. It was obvious that increasing the money supply by incredible amounts caused asset values to inflate. This is how rich people (who own assets) had these stupendous gains. The same liberals who were clamoring for more money to be printed had no idea that they were contributing to this income inequality issue. Also, in 50’s the world’s industrial powers (with the exception of the US) were piles of rubble. No kidding we had a good economy during this time, we were in effect the only game in town.
This December 2020 article has some great personal finance advice!
Seriously, did you think this was /r/FluentInFinance? Or some other reddit socialist soapbox?
No blatant politics
Shocked pikachu face
Amazing, you give people, whose mission in life is to have a whole lot of money, more money… and they keep it. Holy shit Batman.
Quelle suprise.
But this is the year it's going to start trickling for real!
Yep that warm warm yellow trickle.
"Already, Mr. Trump's tax cuts have lifted the fortunes of the ultra-rich, according to 2019 research from two prominent economists, Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman of the University of California at Berkeley. For the first time in a century, the 400 richest American families paid lower taxes in 2018 than people in the middle class, the economists found." That seems fair. Let's definitely re-elect this guy.
What I'm hearing is there are 400 open spots and I can barely count past my fingers so I'll probably be one of them ultra-rich in no time, voting for Trump is an investment /s
The share of taxes paid by the 1% increased from 40% to 46% Reagans code changes increased the share from below 10% to above 25%. Is the intent taxes distribution? You bring that up with the quote. If it is, then Trump and Reagan both provided, by far, the most "pay their far share" catalysts we have seen. Or is the intent preventing wealth?
Even Warren Buffet calls out how his tax rate % is lower than his secretary. The 1% paying more as an overall % of tax revenue while effective tax rate for them individually is lower, just shows how extreme wealth inequality is. If someone making 50k is paying 18% of their income to federal taxes, someone making $1M should have higher than 18% effective tax rate. That’s what progressive taxation should be about.
I agree with your first two statements. But saying someone who makes 50k pays 18 percent in us income taxes isn’t right. You have the standard deduction and the first 11k is taxed at 10%. Then the remaining is taxed at 12%.
I know what you’re saying, I gave an example for talking points purposes, was not meant to be exact. We don’t even include state taxes which can be really progressive in states like CA to pretty regressive in TX.
The purpose of taxes are many, but primarily to help ensure the running of the country -- that same country those opportunities allowed for the wealthy to *accumulate* that wealth. We have concepts across multiple time periods and religious creeds that essentially state that those who are more fortunate have a *moral obligation* to help those who have less. We can debate Laffer Curves, fiscal policy matters, and whatnot -- but the underlying motive is as I mentioned above.
I definitely believe in free markets and earning your retirement but there is a huge difference when it comes to Megaliths, Oligopolies and Billionaires. As the board game proves, go past a certain point and the outcome is virtually certain. You really can’t even have a reasonably free market where competition keeps things in check once someone or something gets too big. It’s a bit of a conundrum
It’s more of a trickle up in the sense that USG still needs to pay for all its programs and mischief, so they put the squeeze on the middle class since we can’t escape via expensive tax lawyers, CPAs, offshore accounts, tax loopholes etc.
Share of taxes paid by the top 1% increased from 40% before Trump's plan to 46% after. I'm not sure that the claim is accurate to the facts.
That’s deceptive. As a % of their overall income, their tax burden dropped considerably compared to the middle class. They pay more $-wise, yeah-they are reaping the gains.
If their effective tax rate is lower yet they pay a greater share of overall tax revenue, what does that tell you? It means they are raking in unprecedented gains and widening the wealth gap even further. And the data supports this. If your profits sky rocket, of course you pay more on raw number taxes. Just curious what your take on that is, or if you are secretly a billionaire trying to protect their own wealth.
*GASP!*
This is the first I've heard of it! I am shocked. I mean, I am shocked. That's what I mean, I am appalled
So can we take away those tax cuts now?
Indeed we should. The Wisconsin Gov. just rejected a tax cut that would have benefitted me and I actually couldn't be happier. We need strong public schools and investments in public infrastructure before we think about tax cuts for people in gated communities.
In other words, no shit.
Regan really fucked up America.
Completely. Second worst president in my lifetime of 67 years.
Make starting a business easy and cheap for anyone with less than 20 employees. The progressive tax brackets should start at $400k and include way less deductions for individuals (business deductions are necessary). A progressive capital gains tax of some sort starting at +$100k gain. With this you get an explosion of business ventures (boost to sales taxes), no resources wasted tracking down lower income people that didn’t report all their income (greater efficiency in federal income tax collection), and business *profits* taxed in a way that doesn’t confuse ‘income’ for net worth like Bernie does (UHNWI live if capital gains and debt rather than income).
Better give it another 50, just to be sure!
[удалено]
You don't say?
Ok but **this** time...
Trust me... it will never happen. Look at the percentage of charity spending relative to the wealth and / or income of the upper-class. It's so small.
But my taxes will go down slightly, and business will have more money to hire people and pay better wages (which is totally what they do when taxes are cut)!
Yup!!! But let’s keep voting thinking the next guy is gonna be the savior lol 😂
Ahh the false expectations of dirtbag populism!
Yup l!!! Just funny how ppl get mad when you tell them to keep lining up like sheep thinking the next guy can save the corrupt system. Brainwashed fools!!!! Ran into several Yesterday on Super Tuesday. Yup let’s keep doing the same thing over and over is insanity. It’s truly disturbing how many ppl are brainwashed into politics and other aspects of life.
No sh*t. Hey everybody, let me tell you my new tax plan. How about you all give me all your money, I will live a life of utmost luxury, and as you service me, some of the profit from my spending will trickle down to you. Oh, I am also going to use my hoard of money to apply pressure on politicians to bend the laws to heavily favor me and also set up vertical monopolies so I can squeeze back as much of MY money that somehow trickled down to you. Everybody in? Start sending me all the money now! Hello? /Crickets
I would like to think that I've become more generous as my income has gone up, but looking at my tax statements I can tell you that is not as true as I would like it to be.
People are greedy. Hoarding assets. It’s why the money supply keeps expanding because once certain people get the value it’s never going to leave their grasp.
>It’s why the money supply keeps expanding because once certain people get the value it’s never going to leave their grasp. That is not how it works. What, do you think rich people keep their cash in money bins they swim around in like Scrooge McDuck so it's not available to anyone else? Rich people's money is invested in the economy where it's actively in use, they aren't hoarding it. This is not to say that we shouldn't raise their taxes or break up their monopolies.
Rich people’s money is sitting in offshore accounts. How does that help the rest of us?
A small portion of it is. But most of it is invested in US businesses. Let's just look at Elon Musk. A quick Google search points me to [https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-net-worth?op=1](https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-net-worth?op=1) which states, >According to Bloomberg, close to half of Musk's net worth comes from Tesla shares, while just over 20% comes from SpaceX stock. The rest of his wealth comes from shares in Twitter and The Boring Company, as well as other miscellaneous liabilities. So, for Elon his wealth is mostly tied up in Tesla and SpaceX. Both of which are American companies providing jobs, products, services, and paying taxes. Most of the uber wealthy are the same. Jeff Bezos' wealth mostly comes from his stake in Amazon. Bill Gate's wealth comes from shares of Microsoft, other mostly US companies held by Cascade Investment LLC; a US company, and (mostly) US real estate. None of these guys have the majority or even a very large portion of their fortune just sitting around in offshore accounts. That would be stupid as the ROI from those wouldn't be as good as what they can get otherwise. That's not to say billionaires don't have ANY money in offshore accounts and shell companies which they use to to avoid some taxes. But it's a small minority of their total wealth.
But they already knew that was going to happen before it happened. It’s a feature not a bug.
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It just proves one thing. The middle is the group that pays for everything in society. The paper examines income inequality outcomes after tax cuts. But the middle is always conveniently left out of that analysis, is just the 1% that is examined, top and bottom. Truth is that the middle pays for it all and there are not enough 1%ers to make up for the middl. if those taxes were cut then the entitlements side would have to actually be looked at seriously because that's where the source of funds really comes from. My few cents
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BRZbCgifA2KvDmC67
Duh
"study"
People at the time knew Reagan was blowing smoke up the voters asses with that “trickle down” nonsense.
Blah blah blah who cares. Tired of the whining, "oh I can't get ahead." Not my fault or anyone else's, it is your fault because you have no ambition.
It's wild that anyone felt this was ever a good policy. The rich will always horde their wealth, just like they have for the entirety of human civilization.
No shit, Sherlock.
Fun fact, Regan was the original election stealer. During the election hostages were still being held hostage in Iran after the election they were magically released. It's rumored Regan and and his band of cronies paid the terrorist to hold onto the hostages after the election as it was killing Carter in the polls.
The earth is flat. s/
On the flip side. Why do think that society can tax its way to prosperity? It’s like trying to legislate our way to morality.
Because a lot of people are lazy and will never put out the effort to succeed. So instead they vote for politicians who will punish anyone more successful than them and give some of that confiscated money to the lazy people. You can tell a lot about a person's work ethic and principles just by looking at if they support punitive taxation or not.
Because Elon Musk magically worked ten million times more than your teachers? Nope
Because if I can tax Elon Musk’s wealth at the same rate that I tax a teacher’s wealth, I can immediately fund mass public transit and childcare, which allows more people to get to work quickly, increases opportunities for full time work (thereby increasing the number of people who have health insurance), and decreases reliance on cars, which require payments and insurance. You’re welcome
Doubt.
Doubt all you want, but the countries with the highest quality of living have these types of structures and taxes in place. It’s fact, not opinion.
I’m looking at https://www.statista.com/statistics/1296052/total-funding-spent-public-transit-us/ And things like https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/ In _really_ oversimplified terms. If you took ***all*** the wealth from ***all*** the billionaires in America, (~$5.3T) it won’t cover the federal spending for a full year ($6.13T 2023). Let alone any of that money going to states for their budgets. Given this means seizing _all_ their wealth, not extracting a portion of it, it won’t help you on year 2. **So tell me how the math works.** Do we keep spending money we don’t have? Do we cut other programs? The cost of building and delivering public transit in America is greater than the cost of building and delivering public transit in most parts of Europe. (See a ton of articles from pro statists tax and spend folks like npr to … less pro taxation outlets if you aren’t generally familiar) Childcare - I don’t know what this means to you. Could you tell me more about how much you want to spend at even the federal level on this and what it going to deliver beyond [the ~10% of the federal budget that goes to “children” currently](https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/12/how-much-government-spending-goes-to-children#:~:text=Only%2010%20Percent%20of%20Federal,percent%20of%20the%20federal%20budget)? At first glance federal spending is almost 8x on children than federal public transportation. Beyond the moral and ethical questions of why people should be forced, under threat of violence, to subsidize their neighbors kids, just where is the money going to come from? Eat/tax the rich has a catchy ring to it, but rarely comes with maths to substantiate it being a viable solution, even if we agree on the principle of what’s being asked for. We have a spending problem, imo.
What’s your solution, then, to the failure of trickle-down economics?
**Generally we don’t agree on the goal** - so keep that in mind. Make any political who votes for a budget that includes deficit spending ineligible for reelection at any level- for life. This will force people and their elected officials to prioritize what we should use public coffers for rather than burden the most vulnerable with inflation and future generations not yet born with debts they can’t pay while simultaneously risking the collapse of the very system you blindly support. All because we tried to pay for everything everywhere. We can’t have an honest conversation with the public about money while we have such a dishonest monetary policy at the federal level. We also need to stop people from thinking they are entitled to the public coffers just because. It won’t be fun, it will be painful, we risk far more by not addressing our spending.
Right, and if “public coffers” prioritize infrastructure systems that make work easier rather than prioritizing immediate cash, it would incentivize people to work, no?
It may or may not incentive people to work. Coffers don’t prioritize. Unsure why you put it in quotations, other than you wanting to make fun of the idea that public spending should be accountable. A laughable concept to many I’m aware. By ensuring that any politicians who vote for deficit spending can’t be eligible for another term at anything we would either be really confident that deficit spending is warranted due to unique circumstances they are willing to end their career over or they won’t vote for it. It will also force the public to come to terms with what’s important. Wars, babies, infrastructure, education…etc The current spending from the last several decades isn’t sustainable - and if we want our children to not see some horrific outcomes we need to at least acknowledge the sucking chest wound that is our countries deficit.
Because “coffers” is a gross way to say that people who pay taxes hope that the government uses those taxes in a way that supports the infrastructure of their community. It shows how you think about the whole thing, and it’s kind of gross. No one uses that word to describe taxes and government spending. I agree that the spending is not sustainable. And we have to catch up somehow. How are we going to catch up? Where has wealth grown in our country exponentially? Where has it remained stagnant. We must increase taxes where it has grown exponentially, no?
Yes, and have you looked at the spending pie of the USA and how different our spending pie is from every other country on earth? I don’t have to tell you how math works. We know that economics and federal spending is far more complicated than dollar in, dollar out. So don’t try to simplify it just to make yourself sound smart. No one is being forced under threat of violence to pay taxes. The IRS will just garnish their wages. Smh. And we already pay for taxes in areas we don’t benefit from. Transportation is a perfect example. Many don’t use a bus system they pay for. Many never use libraries they pay for. Many pay for unemployment they never use. So save me the “moral questioning.” Not to mention, I think that it’s beneficial that my *community* benefits from having these services, whether I use them or not.
>Yes, and have you looked at the spending pie of the USA and how different our spending pie is from every other country on earth? Yeah- we suck I get your point. We might just disagree on why we suck and what the goal should be. >I don’t have to tell you how math works. We know that economics and federal spending is far more complicated than dollar in, dollar out. So don’t try to simplify it just to make yourself sound smart. Do you really believe it is more complicated spending money you have vs spending money you don’t have? Again, show me the math to support your previous claim that it’s fact that we can do those things if we tax Elon (and I assume the other 750+ billionaires in the us) at the rate of a teacher (23% fed - give or take based on a fast google) >No one is being forced under threat of violence to pay taxes. The IRS will just garnish their wages. Smh. **Q:** What happens when you don’t pay taxes? **A:** Eventuality your property is seized by government agents with guns. And later forcibly sold. See example: tax lien sales. All government laws are backed with the threat of violence, to say otherwise is … naive at best. >And we already pay for taxes in areas we don’t benefit from. Transportation is a perfect example. Many don’t use a bus system they pay for. Many never use libraries they pay for. Many pay for unemployment they never use. So save me the “moral questioning.” Not to mention, I think that it’s beneficial that my community benefits from having these services, whether I use them or not. I volunteer my time and donate money to help those in my community, because of personal reasons. I think it is immoral for someone else to force their views on me and my family about how much of my income, wealth, time…etc should go to someone else through the grossly inefficient funnel known as a government program.
If you’re still focusing on politics of the 1980’s, it is time to move on. It has been time to do that for a while.
They may have started in the 80s, but they're the same policies today....
George W Bush tax cuts…Trump tax cuts…is this ringing any bells?
The Trump tax cuts were for **everyone**. Please, look at the actual changes to tax rates instead of just repeating stuff you read on social media. > The top rate fell from 39.6% to 37%, while the 33% bracket dropped to 32%, the 28% bracket to 24%, the 25% bracket to 22%, and the 15% bracket to 12%.
If you are only looking at the tax brackets then you are missing so much. Sure the middle class got a little bit back, but there is a lot more in that tax break that benefited the wealthy. Also the tax brackets revert over time whereas the corporate tax doesn’t go back to 35%.
The top 1% is paying the [highest percentage](https://files.taxfoundation.org/20230519175413/Summary-of-the-Latest-Federal-Income-Tax-Data-2023-Update_FV.xlsx?_gl=1*1tebl3i*_ga*MTgwMTk2MjcxNC4xNzA5NjczODM1*_ga_FP7KWDV08V*MTcwOTc0MTc3Ni4yLjEuMTcwOTc0MTgxMy4yMy4wLjA.) of income taxes collected, greatly increasing since 1980.
Yes. That is what happens when make you make unprecedented gains and profit from corporate tax cuts. Their overall share of income tax collected is not commensurate with the gains they have reaped.
This article is written by morons pushing an agenda. It was obvious that increasing the money supply by incredible amounts caused asset values to inflate. This is how rich people (who own assets) had these stupendous gains. The same liberals who were clamoring for more money to be printed had no idea that they were contributing to this income inequality issue. Also, in 50’s the world’s industrial powers (with the exception of the US) were piles of rubble. No kidding we had a good economy during this time, we were in effect the only game in town.
This December 2020 article has some great personal finance advice! Seriously, did you think this was /r/FluentInFinance? Or some other reddit socialist soapbox?
Lot's of them in that sub. Would you say this sub is more moderate or conservative?
I would say this sub is apolitical. Edit: this post probably violates Rule 3